Is Jobs the new gates?

[farmfield]

As an old fox in this hen-house I find it really entertaining that Jobs is moving in on Gates... It's now an anti-popularity-contest!

We are used to hate Microsoft and Bill Gates. It's a combination of envy and the fact that we're pissed off that he makes money on an operating system that never was that good to begin with...

In contrast we had Steve Jobs. He was the underdog fighting the humongous Micro$oft corpration and he was our hero...

But something changed. Apple became successful. Not at competing with Microsoft - that people would have loved - but they changed direction and moved into customer control - much like Microsoft. Sell them a product they can't get rid of!

Because, face it, it's what iTunes and the iPod/iPhone is all about. Selling a piece of hardware that demands the use of a specific software which, when installed and customized to perfection, is impossible to stop using without starting from scratch.

Anyone get a ******* wibe here?

And so comes GNU. We pirates love it! Free gold. And you know what, it's a good product. You get everything Apple and Microsoft denies you. You are in charge, you have control, no viruses to infect you or spyware to infiltrate your life...

But man, it's come to the point that it's tipping over from being used solely bu us hobby-anarchists to being pre-installed in Dell computers. Lenovo is expanding their interest in the Linux distros and Novell is pumping funds into OpenSUSE...

Well, we're in for a rough patch folks, the distros are becoming just another product.. Who will we hate when Linux becomes mainstream? Who will we hate for crappy programming - the guy responsible did it for fun in his free time... And can we really hate Dell for selling laptops using free software?

//Farmfield

[BoyOfDestiny]

As an old fox in this game I find it really entertaining that Jobs is moving in on Gates... It's an anti-popularity-contest!

We are used to hate Microsoft and Bill Gates. It's a combination of envy and the fact that we're pissed off that he makes money on an operating system that never was that good to begin with...

In contrast we had Steve Jobs. He was the underdog fighting the humongous Micro$oft corpration and he was our hero...

But something changed. Apple became successful. Not at competing with Microsoft - that people would have loved - but they changed direction and moved into customer control - much like Microsoft. Sell them a product they can't get rid of!

Because, face it, it's what iTunes and the iPod/iPhone is all about. Selling a piece of hardware that demands the use of a specific software which, when installed and customized to perfection, is impossible to stop using without starting from scratch.

Anyone get a ******* wibe here?

And so comes GNU. We pirates love it! Free gold. And you know what, it's a good product. You get everything Apple and Microsoft denies you. You are in charge, you have control, no viruses to infect you or spyware to infiltrate your life...

But man, it's come to the point that it's tipping over from being used solely bu us hobby-anarchists to being pre-installed in Dell computers. Lenovo is expanding their interest in the Linux distros and Novell is pumping funds into OpenSUSE...

Well, we're in for a rough patch folks, the distros are becoming just another product.. Who will we hate when Linux becomes mainstream? Who will we hate for crappy programming - the guy responsible did it for fun in his free time... And can we really hate Dell for selling laptops using free software?

//Farmfield

Both Apple and MS are proprietary. You won't get the same from Linux and other Free Software. As for all the software capable of running on top, it's not surprising there may be a version for os x, BSD, OpenSolaris, Windows, qnx, amiga, heck even a Nintendo DS (scummvm for example has a nice port.)

Due to the nature of GNU, you'll get the the 4 freedoms. It's not piracy, GNU wouldn't work without copyright.

Also, there are many paid developers working on Linux and Free Software as well.

I recommend reading
10 Myths About Open Source Software Answered, by Carlo Daffara
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070828132340846

A recent interview with Stallman covers the freedoms and differences between Free Software and Open Source.
http://rackit.gartnerwebdev.com/2007/09/24/on-the-front-lines-with-richard-stallman/

I wouldn't worry.

[lisati]

Don't panic - I heard that Mr Jobs started for fun in his garage, possibly Mr Gates too.... we're all adults who can learn from their mistakes.

[farmfield]

Aah, but you two sound like serious and/or educated people, hehe, not really the hobby-anarchists who write here about their hatred of Jobs, Gates and alike - so this wasn't aimed at you and/or wasn't really written to be taken that seriously, hehe... Sorry if it sounded like I know what I'm talking bout... ;-)

[farmfield]

To clarify,

I was really talking about the proverbial underdog, by choice or by nature, and it's way of describing mainstream as wrong and ugly...

So anarchists (or Hip-Hop'ers, Skaters, you name the subculture) in general dress differently compared to the mainstream population, but as a group they dress very similarly, making it mainstream, but only in that particular group of individuals.

Mac-users are a similar group. MacOS have 3% of the OS market today so as a manufacturer of operating systems, Apple are tiny. Due to genius marketing they always stood out in a crowd though, and the Mac/MacOS users were very proud to be members of this very exclusive club.

Linux users is of coarse similar to MacOS users, but even more so as one have to be quite computer litterate to run Linux, editing configuration files manually a.s.o...

So as the iPod quadrupled Apples earnings, Vista is generally considered crap, Apple as a underdog becomes "king of the land" and the club isn't very exlusive any more. But Linux still were...

Now this is about to change. Linux distros as Ubunto have reached a level where they are comparable with Windows and MacOS when it comes to installation and ease of use. You don't need to be a hacker to run them anymore, and the exclusivity vanishes over night...

So where does a linux-anarchist-type-user go from there? The status of being the proverbial underdog with an ess upp his sleve is sliding away fast...

That's what I was trying to colourfully describe in my first post, hehe... Maybe I should have written this one from the beginning? ;-)

Cheers/Johnny-Boy

[BoyOfDestiny]

To clarify,

I was really talking about the proverbial underdog, by choice or by nature, and it's way of describing mainstream as wrong and ugly...

So anarchists (or Hip-Hop'ers, Skaters, you name the subculture) in general dress differently compared to the mainstream population, but as a group they dress very similarly, making it mainstream, but only in that particular group of individuals.

Mac-users are a similar group. MacOS have 3% of the OS market today so as a manufacturer of operating systems, Apple are tiny. Due to genius marketing they always stood out in a crowd though, and the Mac/MacOS users were very proud to be members of this very exclusive club.

Linux users is of coarse similar to MacOS users, but even more so as one have to be quite computer litterate to run Linux, editing configuration files manually a.s.o...

So as the iPod quadrupled Apples earnings, Vista is generally considered crap, Apple as a underdog becomes "king of the land" and the club isn't very exlusive any more. But Linux still were...

Now this is about to change. Linux distros as Ubunto have reached a level where they are comparable with Windows and MacOS when it comes to installation and ease of use. You don't need to be a hacker to run them anymore, and the exclusivity vanishes over night...

So where does a linux-anarchist-type-user go from there? The status of being the proverbial underdog with an ess upp his sleve is sliding away fast...

That's what I was trying to colourfully describe in my first post, hehe... Maybe I should have written this one from the beginning? ;-)

Cheers/Johnny-Boy

If you are using Linux just because it's "unpopular" and want to ditch it when everyone uses it... I'm not sure what to say. There are still a lot of features some users won't touch, such as the fantastic command line interface. Maybe you'd like to get the latest version of your favorite software package and build it from git/mercurial/bzr etc (I like it!)

Your other options, try to roll your own distro, something like Linux From Scratch. Try and get a machine and run Hurd. Why not try to find open hardware (something that will hopefully be more common, or a mobo with openbios) Besides there isn't just one Linux, there are tons of other distros...

There seems to be plenty of choice out there, and ways to make your system much different from other people... Different DEs, different everything. Heck pick up a Dvorak keyboard instead of QWERTY?

But just to ditch it because it's popular, I ask you, what do you if the anarchist-hobbyist becomes the norm? Free and/or Open source OS are where you can thrive. Everything Free App you use, you could modify without having to resort to reverse engineering or decompiling. It's just one big playground. I know I get to have fun with my Linux boxes. Think about folks in India and Russia recently that get to start out with this. Those with the desire will tinker!

With Apple you require hardware that gives you permission to install/use their OS.

With Windows, they are trying hard to turn an Open Platform into a closed one.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Seriously, Linux is the only reasonable choice for an OS for me. It's not the underdog status that attracted me.

:popcorn:

P.S. There are plenty of sub cultures and "scenes" on the net. Ever listened to a .sid file? :)

[BoyOfDestiny]

Aah, but you two sound like serious and/or educated people, hehe, not really the hobby-anarchists who write here about their hatred of Jobs, Gates and alike - so this wasn't aimed at you and/or wasn't really written to be taken that seriously, hehe... Sorry if it sounded like I know what I'm talking bout... ;-)

It seems weird to pigeonhole a group that is all about being different, as fitting into a certain type, isn't it?

I don't hate Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, just their companies (respectively.)

[handy]

Bill Gates has 50% ownership of Apple Computers.

Fortunately it is a non-voting share.

Without Bill Gates' financial input, it is quite possible that Apple would not have survived.

Steve Jobs made the offer to Bill Gates, & was naturally very grateful that Bill took it up, as he basically saved Apple.

Also, for those that don't know it, Excel for Apple was the first piece of commercial software that Bill Gates produced.

Pirates of Silicon Valley is an enjoyable docudrama about the early years of Gates & Jobs, & their inter-reaction. You can find it to watch on the net.

Here is a very interesting short clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lx9JsSTklI) of Steve Wozniak talking about the validity of Pirates of Silicon Valley's content.

[MRiGnS]

Bill Gates has 50% ownership of Apple Computers.

Source?

[antisocialist]

well, unix and bsd are still less used than linux, you can switch to one of those

[handy]

Source?

It's the cover story on Time magazine August 18, 1997.

"Bill, thank you. The world's a better place." -Steve Jobs talking to Bill Gates by cell phone last week about saving Apple.

The above is quoted directly off of the magazine cover.

[handy]

well, unix and bsd are still less used than linux, you can switch to one of those

OX X, is built on BSD.

[MRiGnS]

It's the cover story on Time magazine August 18, 1997.

"Bill, thank you. The world's a better place." -Steve Jobs talking to Bill Gates by cell phone last week about saving Apple.

The above is quoted directly off of the magazine cover.

It does not mention anything about 50%, and Microsoft bought a share, not Bill Gates.

Last thing I heard about Apple stockholders was a Saudi Prince having the greatest share of aliens with about 4.1%

[Alfa989]

Bill Gates has 50% ownership of Apple Computers.

Totally false. Not true anymore! :P

[handy]

It does not mention anything about 50%, and Microsoft bought a share, not Bill Gates.

Last thing I heard about Apple stockholders was a Saudi Prince having the greatest share of aliens with about 4.1%

The impression that was given in the media at the time, was that it was a Steve Jobs call to Bill Gates, as far as BG or MS, who cares?

I wasn't making the statement for a courtroom! ;-)

[handy]

Totally false. Not true anymore! :P

I believe that it was once, but hey, I don't do their books!

[Alfa989]

I believe that it was once, but hey, I don't do their books!

That stock was sold in 1997... :)

[handy]

That stock was sold in 1997... :)

Thanks, now I know.

By the way, where do you get your information for this stuff?

[Alfa989]

Thanks, now I know.

By the way, where do you get your information for this stuff?

That's general knowledge if you want to talk about Apple... But if you google you'll probably find lots of info on that topic... :)

[handy]

That's general knowledge if you want to talk about Apple... But if you google you'll probably find lots of info on that topic... :)

Ok, same old same old...

Thanks.

[sh1v]

As an old fox in this hen-house I find it really entertaining that Jobs is moving in on Gates... It's now an anti-popularity-contest!

We are used to hate Microsoft and Bill Gates. It's a combination of envy and the fact that we're pissed off that he makes money on an operating system that never was that good to begin with...

In contrast we had Steve Jobs. He was the underdog fighting the humongous Micro$oft corpration and he was our hero...

But something changed. Apple became successful. Not at competing with Microsoft - that people would have loved - but they changed direction and moved into customer control - much like Microsoft. Sell them a product they can't get rid of!

Because, face it, it's what iTunes and the iPod/iPhone is all about. Selling a piece of hardware that demands the use of a specific software which, when installed and customized to perfection, is impossible to stop using without starting from scratch.

Anyone get a ******* wibe here?

And so comes GNU. We pirates love it! Free gold. And you know what, it's a good product. You get everything Apple and Microsoft denies you. You are in charge, you have control, no viruses to infect you or spyware to infiltrate your life...

But man, it's come to the point that it's tipping over from being used solely bu us hobby-anarchists to being pre-installed in Dell computers. Lenovo is expanding their interest in the Linux distros and Novell is pumping funds into OpenSUSE...

Well, we're in for a rough patch folks, the distros are becoming just another product.. Who will we hate when Linux becomes mainstream? Who will we hate for crappy programming - the guy responsible did it for fun in his free time... And can we really hate Dell for selling laptops using free software?

//Farmfield

I dont see jobs spending billions on improving the world. Hence Jobs is not Gates. Which means your logic is flawed

[cprofitt]

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205203690&cid=nl_IWK_daily

Jobs would patent 'going to the bathroom' if he thought he could get a way with it...

He would call it the iDoodie patent.

[Alfa989]

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205203690&cid=nl_IWK_daily

Jobs would patent 'going to the bathroom' if he thought he could get a way with it...

He would call it the iDoodie patent.

So now patents are evil or what?

Geez...

[cprofitt]

So now patents are evil or what?

Geez...

Not patents, but stupid Patents.

[Alfa989]

Not patents, but stupid Patents.
Why is that patent stupid? :huh: