Tux Magazine is too KDE-centric

[brian g]

anyone else agree?

When they are asked about why so much KDE coverage it's almost as if they are insulted... or trying to "sell" KDE. When people ask for help with GNOME they get help, but only after twice as much time is used telling the user that GNOME sucks and KDE does everything better. Are they funded by Linspire or something.. trying to sell KDE desktop machines??
I think alienating GNOME users.. especially novice Linux GNOME users is just not the right approach they should be taking. It's almost like teaching hate. It certainly was not something I would have expected from this magazine for new Linux users.

[bored2k]

anyone else agree?

When they are asked about why so much KDE coverage it's almost as if they are insulted... or trying to "sell" KDE. When people ask for help with GNOME they get help, but only after twice as much time is used telling the user that GNOME sucks and KDE does everything better. Are they funded by Linspire or something.. trying to sell KDE desktop machines??
I think alienating GNOME users.. especially novice Linux GNOME users is just not the right approach they should be taking. It's almost like teaching hate. It certainly was not something I would have expected from this magazine for new Linux users.
I completely agree. When it came out I thought it was going to be a great magazine, but after reading two or three releases, I was clearly -IMO- wrong. Anyone who has read it clearly knows its a magazine aimed at "green" users. Like Brian said, someone reading it will get the idea that KDE is the best thing ever created after the toilet and that GNOME is Linux's extremly complicated _not_ Holy Grail. Proof ? Get the first issue, you have "Mango Parfait", a supposedly uber linux goddess that -in her own words- has been using Linux way before Linus Torvalds (you read right, not Unix, Linux). She goes on and on about how much better KDE is for everything Linux and even says something in the air of "If something does not work, I told you to use KDE!". You even read on how good KDE is on the editorials. That is just not right. Not that KDE is bad (all of them are just different) but for anyone embracing the magazine, thinking its the best Linux magazine period, those users will be KDE slaves for good.

And yes I also agree on the fact that It "almost" looks like KDE is paying for the magazine.

[professor_chaos]

I agree. They are way to KDE-centric. They should call their mag, KDE Magazine.

I love linux and like gnome, but their magazine is not all that useful for me.

[drizek]

well, its a pretty bad idea to have a magazine which covers both gnome and kde equally. half the pages will just be ignored by half the people. there should be seperate mags for gnome and kde, so that the content is actually usefull to the person reading it.

that said, tux is a noob magazine. Obviously the editors feel that kde is better for new users than gnome. they may be wrong, but you have to admit that it would be pretty confusing to a new linux user who just set up his linspire box to read about gnome and gnome apps.

maybe you guys can contact them and ask if you can make a ubuntu/gnome-centric version of tux magazine targeted at noobs?

[bored2k]

well, its a pretty bad idea to have a magazine which covers both gnome and kde equally. half the pages will just be ignored by half the people. there should be seperate mags for gnome and kde, so that the content is actually usefull to the person reading it.
Nowhere did they ever say it would be a KDE-centric magazine. They simply advertise the magazine as been everything a green user would want period. If they would have said it would be a KDE-centric magazine, I would have surely ignored it. So if they just want to post a big "one million downloads! most popular linux mag ever!", they should not trick us into getting it. They should rename it to the KDE Magazine.

And by the way, I see no problem with a magazine that covers the most popular Desktop Environments ! That would actually be great. Gnome, KDE, Fluxbox, XFCE et al divided into sections would be the perfect learning tool.

[drizek]

ya, i agree with you, they should have advertised it as a kde-centric magazine. But i still dont think its a good idea to have too much info about other DE's in one mag, especially one targeted at noobs. a couple "whats happening in Gnome" pages at the end would be really cool, but thats about it.

[benplaut]

i was just reading Linux Journal at Borders- that's a linux magazine

They even like ubuntu :roll:

[drizek]

i was just reading Linux Journal at Borders- that's a linux magazine

They even like ubuntu :roll:
ya, i thought it was pretty F'd up that tux mag didnt have k/ubuntu listed in their distro poll.

[Sushi]

And Lug Radio is Gnome-centric and somewhat anti-KDE. IIRC they interviewed Eric Raymond few years ago who kept on telling how KDE sucks and how it's total destuction is imminent. Well, KDE is still here, and ESR (again) proved that he's an useless windbag.

A while ago they interviewed Aaron Seigo, and their anti-KDE attitude shined through.

Ars Technica's Linux-sections are Gnome-centric. Good example of this is when new version of gnome was released, they did a throrough review of it. When new version of KDE was released, they didn't bother to review it. They made an article about it only when actual KDE-developer wrote one for them, and submitted it for release.

What's my point? Every media (yes, even Linux-media's) are biased one way or the other. I find it pointless and strange to complain about some aprticular magazine being "KDE-centric", when there are lots of other publications (online or not) that are Gnome-centric.

[Knome_fan]

First, I'd like to agree with Sushi. There are publications about Linux that are more KDE centric, as there are ones that are more Gnome centric, that's just the way it goes.

Second, I'd like to thank you guys for making me aware of this new magazine. Looks quite nice from what I have seen so far. Btw., I just took a look at the latest issue and found the following letter and response:


More GNOME?
I think that you have a great publication in TUX,
and I can see a lot of potential in the magazine.
One thing I noticed though is that you guys seem
to review a lot of KDE-based apps. I’m guessing
that is your preference, which is cool, but I was
wondering if you could also include some articles
and screenshots of GNOME apps and desktops. It
would be great if you could.
--
Cecil
It isn’t our preference that matters. KDE is the
preference of most new Linux users, the target
readership of TUX, which is why we cover it more
than GNOME.—Ed.I

[rwabel]

I'm also a bit disappointed. Way to much kde stuff :-(

I don't understand why people are saying that kde is that much simpler and more userfriendly than gnome. In my opinion gnome is simpler and doesn't even have all the configuration stuff kde has.
Furthermore gnome looks very similar to mac osx. I thought apple has always been called to have the best design and praised for the userfriendly UI :-)

If there is someone who can give me reasons why a newbie should use kde instead of gnome, please tell me!

btw: I know, "everyone" says kde looks more windows-like...mhh... But if you want windows-like you can just install 1 theme in gnome and it looks very windows-like!

[bored2k]

btw: I know, "everyone" says kde looks more windows-like...mhh... But if you want windows-like you can just install 1 theme in gnome and it looks very windows-like!
My question is, why would people whant their DM to look like Windows ? It's not like it has a nice and clean interface like Mac. Users come here not to look for a virus free Windows emulator, they come here looking for something different .

[rwabel]

My question is, why would people whant their DM to look like Windows ? It's not like it has a nice and clean interface like Mac. Users come here not to look for a virus free Windows emulator, they come here looking for something different .
But I guess many people who give linux a try are happy when they see something familiar to what they know. For many it's hard to get accustomed to something new.
Personally I don't dislike the windows interface that much! Many friends weven told me, that they don't like the Mac UI, because it's not "colored" enough, too grey!

btw: the windows vista UI looks rally neat and the font is nice and clear. And they finally have a background that doesn't kill my eyes from the beginning :-)

[Lowe]

My question is, why would people whant their DM to look like Windows ? It's not like it has a nice and clean interface like Mac. Users come here not to look for a virus free Windows emulator, they come here looking for something different .

People moving from windows don't usually want everything different (at first) so having an enviroment that is similar and heck even looks similar to windows, helps the process of moving from windows to Linux. This is why KDE is the most used for noobs, personally i'd rather use windows than KDE though. ;-)

[bored2k]

People moving from windows don't usually want everything different (at first) so having an enviroment that is similar and heck even looks similar to windows, helps the process of moving from windows to Linux. This is why KDE is the most used for noobs, personally i'd rather use windows than KDE though. ;-)
When I'm on Linux, I want Gnome to look like Gnome. When I boot to Windows, I want Windows to look like Windows, not Gnome nor KDE (Classic theme if you're wondering). I guess some people just want a clean Windows instead of a new OS so they turn to "Windows-centric" distros like Xandros (I used all three versions of it; for the last two versions, apt-get install gnome was a must --wich meant breaking the darn thing) or Licoris. This is one of the reasons -IMO- for people complaining when sent to the command line ("but I didn't need that on Windows :$"). As long as people have a choice, long live linux.

[bored2k]

But I guess many people who give linux a try are happy when they see something familiar to what they know. For many it's hard to get accustomed to something new.
Personally I don't dislike the windows interface that much! Many friends weven told me, that they don't like the Mac UI, because it's not "colored" enough, too grey!

btw: the windows vista UI looks rally neat and the font is nice and clear. And they finally have a background that doesn't kill my eyes from the beginning :-)
I don't wish Microsoft's OS anything bad. I hope Vista's good enough to stop people driving themselves and their pockets crazy. Hundreds of dollars for the OS ? Plus hundreds more the antivirus, anti-crapware tool and the decent firewall ? And then more money if I want a decent theme (it's either money or an .exe theme with crapware) ? Good luck to anyone planning to run Vista as their main OS. Advice: start saving for the massive computer --upgrade.

[poofyhairguy]

People moving from windows don't usually want everything different (at first) so having an enviroment that is similar and heck even looks similar to windows, helps the process of moving from windows to Linux. This is why KDE is the most used for noobs, personally i'd rather use windows than KDE though. ;-)

I 100% disagree.

When I install Linux on a new persons computer, I use Gnome and Ubuntu. Why?

Because by default KDE is too close to Windows. I don't people thinking "this is a Windows clone" then bitch when the Windows ways don't work.

With Gnome they are like "this is REALLY different" and they treat it differently. They see that its different and think "this is different, I might need to learn new things."

[TristanMike]

I 100% disagree.

When I install Linux on a new persons computer, I use Gnome and Ubuntu. Why?

Because by default KDE is too close to Windows. I don't people thinking "this is a Windows clone" then bitch when the Windows ways don't work.

With Gnome they are like "this is REALLY different" and they treat it differently. They see that its different and think "this is different, I might need to learn new things."
I agree with this whole heartedly, being a new user migrating from windows myself.

Since reading this thread I had a look at the magazine and agree that it is too KDE oriented. Being a new user, I want to know what options are out there for me within both worlds, Gnome and KDE, not, "Everyone's using this so you should too." If these two entities live in the Linux world then both should be handled with the same coverge.

And to drizek's comment:
well, its a pretty bad idea to have a magazine which covers both gnome and kde equally. half the pages will just be ignored by half the people. there should be seperate mags for gnome and kde, so that the content is actually usefull to the person reading it.Wouldn't that be the best way, so you'd have both demographics, plus be able to introduce to those who've made their decision on an environment different features or apps that they may not normally run into.

That's just how a green noob like myself would appreciate seeing it.

[drizek]

My question is, why would people whant their DM to look like Windows ? It's not like it has a nice and clean interface like Mac. Users come here not to look for a virus free Windows emulator, they come here looking for something different .
thats where youre wrong. i dont want something different. thats waht apple does. they sell stuff thats _different_. but that doesnt mean it still doesnt suck.

i use linux because its better. a lot of the things in OSX are either unintuitive or just outright confusing. they are only designed that way because apples goal is to be different rather than to be better.

The goal of KDE is not to be like windows. its not meant to be a windows clone or a copy of windows. there are things that MS does which are good. for example, in kde 3.5, there is going to be a dialog box that pops ups that says "you have inserted a cd. what would you like to do? blablablab." this feature already exists in windows, yes. but that doesnt make it a bad thing. kde has some features that are found in OSX, and a lot of features that were made in-house as well. its not a copy of anything. so why does it resemble windows as much as it does? 95% of computer users are windows users. so when MS has implemented something which works well, it is better to use something which looks and works the same way as something people are familiar with rather than something that is different.

[Knome_fan]

Jesus, why do threads like these always have to evolve into some kind of senseless KDE bashing?

No, KDE does not look like windows.
No, KDE does not work like windows.
No, KDE is not intended to be, nor is it a windows clone.

[poofyhairguy]

Jesus, why do threads like these always have to evolve into some kind of senseless KDE bashing?

No, KDE does not look like windows.
No, KDE does not work like windows.
No, KDE is not intended to be, nor is it a windows clone.

Agreed, but:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=296214&postcount=14



No frustrations yet. I have to credit GNOME, which is different enough from Windows to force her to realize "hey, maybe I should think about doing things a little differently" but not so different as to scare her off. (I'd hate to think of what she would have made of Fluxbox or IceWM)
Now to see if she starts playing with it....

Its a common perception.

[Sushi]

The similarities between KDE and Windows are superficial. Really. Let's think about it:

- Both have Kmenu/Start-menu in the bottom-left corner
- Both have maximise/restore/close-buttons in same place
- Both have systray in bottom-right corner

Well, that's about it. If we look at Gnome we can see few differences:

- "Start"-menu is in top-left corner, and it has been split in to three separate menus
- Systary is in top-right corner
- A bar in top and bottom of the screen

And that's it. All those changes are superficial changes. Basically Gnome has moved menu's and systray around, and added a bar to the top of the screen. In the fundamental level, it's still similar to Windows, as is KDE. They all have a central menu (Kmenu, start-menu and foot-menu) for launching apps. They all have systrays. They all have taskbars. They all have similar minimize/restorse/close-buttons. they all have per-window menubars.

No, Gnome does not really resemble OS X. Gnome has no universal menubar, Gnome has no Dock. Those two are defining elements of Aqua, and Gnome doesn't have either of them (neither does Windows or KDE). Gnome is more closely related to Windows than to OS X. Having a bar on top of the screen does not turn Gnome in to being "similar to OS X", sorry.

KDE does have some similarities to Windows. But so does Gnome. Although Gnome has attempted to hide that fact with few superficial changes. Windows has a systey in bottom-right corner. Gnome has it in top-right corner. Windows has a start-menu in bottom-left corner. Gnome has it in top-left corner. Those are all superficial changes, the paradigm is still exactly the same.

if you people think that KDE looks too much like Windows, feel free to change it to something completely different. I used to run KDE with Kmenu in top-left corner, along with MacOS-style menubar and systray, with taskbar occupying the bottom of the screen. End-result looked nothing like Windows. And while it did have MacOS-stsyle menubar, it didn't really resemble OS X either.

[poofyhairguy]

No, Gnome does not really resemble OS X. Gnome has no universal menubar, Gnome has no Dock. Those two are defining elements of Aqua, and Gnome doesn't have either of them (neither does Windows or KDE). Gnome is more closely related to Windows than to OS X. Having a bar on top of the screen does not turn Gnome in to being "similar to OS X", sorry.

The only way I have gotten the "menu at the top thing" is in KDE.



KDE does have some similarities to Windows. But so does Gnome. Although Gnome has attempted to hide that fact with few superficial changes. Windows has a systey in bottom-right corner. Gnome has it in top-right corner. Windows has a start-menu in bottom-left corner. Gnome has it in top-left corner. Those are all superficial changes, the paradigm is still exactly the same.

The old Fedora Gnome used to have the monolithic menu bar Windows style.

[rwabel]

it's not a KDE bashing! rather a TUX Magazine "bashing" not to include gnome stuff
1. KDE does look simlilar to windows XP !
2. Who said it works like windows, it has some resemblance and has featuers like windows. But that doesn't mean it works LIKE windows
3. It's not intended to be a clone, but to imitate a bit. If that's good or bad is everyone's decision.

btw: looking like and working like windows isn't the SAME thing :-)

[Knome_fan]

it's not a KDE bashing! rather a TUX Magazine "bashing" not to include gnome stuff

I was refering to the discussion on the second page of this thread.



1. KDE does look simlilar to windows XP !

No it does not!! (See, I'm right, I used two exclamation marks :grin: )



2. Who said it works like windows, it has some resemblance and has featuers like windows. But that doesn't mean it works LIKE windows

Again, take a look at the second page.



3. It's not intended to be a clone, but to imitate a bit. If that's good or bad is everyone's decision.

I sure would like to have a link backing up this assertion.



btw: looking like and working like windows isn't the SAME thing :-)
You're right, but then again, who apart from those saying that KDE does look like Windows said such a thing?

[Sushi]

The only way I have gotten the "menu at the top thing" is in KDE.

Yep, but it's not the default. Gnome does have a bar on top by default but it's not a menubar.


The old Fedora Gnome used to have the monolithic menu bar Windows style.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Both KDE and Gnome implement the menubar in the exact same way as Windows does. Fedora Gnome was no different from the way they handle menubars today.

[rwabel]

You are right, some people are saying kde is working like windows. They often confuse about the UI.

I've seen several distros with kde and they all look similar to windows. But fact is also, that with some buttons and some panels the interface already looks a bit like windows :-)

I didn't understand the postings are bashing, rather as personal preference of gnome over kde. Bashing for me is, when you say it's bad, it's evil and it's crap...but maybe I did misunderstand the postings

About the imitating, it's what I personally think. I can't talking about the developers. I've no idea what they want and have in mind. But for me kde is imitating windows.

And if you take for example xandros...damn it looks like windows. There it's not only kde, it's the whole adjustments they've done

[Sushi]

it's not a KDE bashing! rather a TUX Magazine "bashing" not to include gnome stuff

Can I bash Gnome Journal for not including more KDE-stuff? Can I bash these forums for being too Gnome-centric ;)?


1. KDE does look simlilar to windows XP !

As does Gnome. Both have menu's, windows, taskbars, "start"-menu's, similar buttons to manipulate windows, systray etc. etc.


3. It's not intended to be a clone, but to imitate a bit. If that's good or bad is everyone's decision.

KDE is inteded to be "a powerful Free Software graphical desktop environment for Linux and Unix workstations." Nowhere in kde.org does it say that KDE is "inteded to imitate Windows". Sure there are some similarities, but there are similarities between all desktops. Deep down, even Gnome is similar to Windows, most differences between the two are purely superficial.

[rwabel]

Can I bash Gnome Journal for not including more KDE-stuff? Can I bash these forums for being too Gnome-centric ;)?
No, Gnome Journal is about gnome stuff and ubuntu is gnome based, that's why most postings are gnome-centric.
Tux-Magazine was supposed to be a LINUX magazine. That's why some people are "bashing", even though it's more of a criticism




As does Gnome. Both have menu's, windows, taskbars, "start"-menu's, similar buttons to manipulate windows, systray etc. etc.
that's why I wrote, with not much of stuff u get windows :-) But if you first install a kde system and a gnome system, you have to admit the kde system looks more similar to windows than gnome. And still that's no bashing, it's just a statement. Some prefer it some doesn't.



KDE is inteded to be "a powerful Free Software graphical desktop environment for Linux and Unix workstations." Nowhere in kde.org does it say that KDE is "inteded to imitate Windows". Sure there are some similarities, but there are similarities between all desktops. Deep down, even Gnome is similar to Windows, most differences between the two are purely superficial.
I agree it's powerful, but still I think they make it a bit like windows...it's not bad...and you are right, gnome looks also bit similar to windows. But let 2 windows guys have a look at a deafult kde and gnome system....

[Knome_fan]

I didn't understand the postings are bashing, rather as personal preference of gnome over kde. Bashing for me is, when you say it's bad, it's evil and it's crap...but maybe I did misunderstand the postings

Maybe I'm simply to allergic to this issue, as this KDE looks like windows -> KDE is a windows clone -> windows and hence KDE are evil comes up very often. Sorry if I overreacted, but I still think that dismissing a great open source project like KDE in this way isn't the way to go.



And if you take for example xandros...damn it looks like windows. There it's not only kde, it's the whole adjustments they've done
I haven't tried xandros, but from the screenshots I've seen you're absolutely right. But then again, from what I read about xandros this is absolutely their intention. So if anything this shows that KDE can be configured to resemble windows quite a bit, but the same is probably true for Gnome.

[Lord Illidan]

If you don't like said magazine, simple.. don't read it..
I now like both KDE and Gnome, now that I have figured out how to take out this Ubuntu Human theme..

KDE does resemble Windows somewhat. But is that necessarily a bad, bad thing? Windows XP's design was quite good, if you leave out the frivolous taskbar interface.

And KDE can be costumised to look more like Windows or less like Windows, so what are you complaining about?

Xandros and Linspire look like Windows because they are meant for migrating Windows users!!

[Sushi]

No, Gnome Journal is about gnome stuff and ubuntu is gnome based, that's why most postings are gnome-centric.

Well, there is Kubuntu.... And yet, even the sections of these forums that are not strictly about Ubuntu (that is: Gnome-based Linux-distro), but about the whole Ubuntu-community (and that includes Kubuntu), are clearly slanted towards Gnome. I can understand if techical sections about ubuntu and Kubuntu are slanted towards Gnome and KDE, but to have a more generic section (like Community Chat) slanted towards Gnome....


Tux-Magazine was supposed to be a LINUX magazine. That's why some people are "bashing", even though it's more of a criticism

You could say that it's supposed to be a Linux-magazine with a KDE-slant. Sure, they might not announce that from the rooftops, but neither does Community Chat announce that it's "generic discussion, with a Gnome-slant".


that's why I wrote, with not much of stuff u get windows :-) But if you first install a kde system and a gnome system, you have to admit the kde system looks more similar to windows than gnome.

Only if you look at REALLY superficial stuff. If you really look at how the desktops work, you will see lots of similarities between them and Windows.

It seems to me that many people think that Gnome does not look like Windows because systray and start-menu are in different location, and it has two bars, instead of one. Like I said, those are really superficial changes, they do not change the usage-paradigm at all.


But let 2 windows guys have a look at a deafult kde and gnome system....

And like I said, any "differences" they will see in Gnome are purely superficial. It's kinda commendable for the Gnome-guys. They managed to make a desktop that is very similar to Windows, yet they managed to avoid the "looks too much like Windows!"-accusations KDE faces. And they managed that with few trivial changes to the look 'n feel.

And while everyone is busy "accusing" KDE of looking too much like Windows, they forget that in the same time it takes them to write their opinion on Slashdot, they could have changed KDE to look completely unlike Windows. They could have two bars (like Gnome does) with MacOS-style menubar, and universal sidebar, making KDE something very different from Windows.

[rwabel]

@Sushi: The fact is tht this community is for Ubuntu. Kubuntu is a part of it, even with it own section. Ubuntu is gnome-centered, as most useres are. Most howto's are explained to gnome way, but that's normal. I know that there are some kubuntu people in the forum. But most of the useres on the forum are using gnome !

UI similarity is superficial and I know you can change everything. You can also with windows :-)

@Lord Illidan: You're right these 2 distros are for windows users, though quit good distros btw :-)
It's not that I, or maybe the other don't like it. It was just a statement from the author that it's very kde-centered. Therefore some, me too, are disappointed to see 90% about kde. Your statment is wrong. Nobdy said it's bad or something, furthermore you don't have just to not read if you don't like some things about it. It was more of a criticism that people would like to see more gnome stuff in the magazine tool. Maybe we could write them.

As I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing to resemble windows. It's everyones opinion if he likes it or not.

I don't complain about kde. I don't bash it, I don't declare it as bad or evil! It's just that I prefer gnome, as some prefer kde. Having chooses is a good thing.
Both have their weakness and strenghts. The talk wasn't about the quality, but more why most people are using kde and why it's "better" for windows userse to start with kde. Everywhere you can read that if you switch go with kde, that's somehow interesting and not really true.

[Knome_fan]

I don't complain about kde. I don't bash it, I don't declare it as bad or evil! It's just that I prefer gnome, as some prefer kde. Having chooses is a good thing.
Both have their weakness and strenghts.
Just wanted to say that I think nobody wanted to accuse you of bashing KDE. At least it wasn't my intention to do so, so if you had the impression, i apollogize. Other than that, I absolutely agree with you here.

[Sushi]

@Sushi: The fact is tht this community is for Ubuntu. Kubuntu is a part of it, even with it own section. Ubuntu is gnome-centered, as most useres are. Most howto's are explained to gnome way, but that's normal. I know that there are some kubuntu people in the forum. But most of the useres on the forum are using gnome !

And maybe most readers of Tux-magazine are using KDE? Maybe I should complain that Ubuntu is too Gnome-centric ;)?

[rwabel]

And maybe most readers of Tux-magazine are using KDE? Maybe I should complain that Ubuntu is too Gnome-centric ;)?
I think they have so much KDE, because everyone says it's the easiest WM and especially for windows users. if that's true is another thing.
Complaining about ubuntu and gnome will just refer you to kubuntu :-)
But you can't go complaining to a comedy channel in TV and telling them they have too much comedy :-)
Same for ubuntu, they made a distro for people with gnome. Tux-magazine made in that case a linux magazine for kde users. Nothing bad about that, but then change the name to Tux-kde-magazin or so....mhh souds stupid :-) But don't make a general magazin and then only showing kde. I don't know if that was the initial idea. Same is for most german linux magazine. They mostly use SuSE and KDE. For me that's not a linux magazine anymore but a SuSE magazine!

[dcraven]

All of this kind of arguing about KDE-this, GNOME-that doesn't get old to you people? Of course they both look/act similar to Windows in their own respect. We were all (including KDE/GNOME devs) Windows babies once y'know. It's UI seemed to work fine until the whole experience got boring. Old dog, new tricks etc etc.

Might I suggest a new startup magazine that is neither GNOME or KDE-centric at FSM (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/). I've been very much enjoying most of its articles for the past few months. Give it a look, but if you want to comment on it, you probably should start a new thread so that I don't end up hijacking this one like the KDE/GNOME war has (as usual).

Cheers,
~djc

[Stormy Eyes]

anyone else agree?

I don't read Tux, and only rarely read Linux Journal, so I don't personally know how these magazines lean. But if Tux is biased towards KDE, and you don't agree with that bias, then don't read Tux or recommend it to others. Or write a letter to the editors. Why complain about it here?

[Lord Illidan]

I would expect German linux magazines to comment about Suse, true...because Suse is a German invention..

But really...I don't like this type of Magazine which refers to one WM. Linux Format is great, and less biased.

Also, if you don't like it, don't view the site, and do what Stormy Eyes said, send a letter to the editors. But keep in mind, that most newbies are going to default to probably 4 distributions:

1. Linspire
2. Xandros
3. Mandrake
4. Suse

None of these are renowned for having a great Gnome interface...so basically most new users who use these, only use KDE....which explains this magazine's bias towards KDE.

[xequence]

Cecil
It isn’t our preference that matters. KDE is the
preference of most new Linux users, the target
readership of TUX, which is why we cover it more
than GNOME.—Ed.I

That response is dumb, I am new to linux and I prefer Gnome. (Mind you, ive not used ether alot, but about the same.)

Ive used KDE on Slax Live CD and Gnome on Ubuntu Live CD.

KDE to me is windows with a little hint of almost sort of mac.

Gnome to me is 45% Mac, 55% Linux. (Even though linux doesent have one look, it just looks linux to me. It is a look that suits it good.)

[brian g]

Jesus, why do threads like these always have to evolve into some kind of senseless KDE bashing?

No, KDE does not look like windows.
No, KDE does not work like windows.
No, KDE is not intended to be, nor is it a windows clone.
you're obviously a KDE fan.
you don't belong in this thread because you were the first person that brought up publications that have nothing to do with TUX magazine that are GNOME centric..
you turned this into a this vs. that thread.

Tux Magazine is a magazine for linux newbies..
but the problem is it's only catering to one specific desktop.
and the fact that the question is so frequently asked to them is more than enough reason to stop.

[Knome_fan]

you're obviously a KDE fan.
you don't belong in this thread because you were the first person that brought up publications that have nothing to do with TUX magazine that are GNOME centric..
you turned this into a this vs. that thread.

Tux Magazine is a magazine for linux newbies..
but the problem is it's only catering to one specific desktop.
and the fact that the question is so frequently asked to them is more than enough reason to stop.

First let me thank you for this well thought out and grown up response. After all, personal attacks are always the way to go...

1. Yes, I'm a KDE fan, as I'm a Gnome fan, if you want to put it that way. Just look at my user name to get the idea.
2. I don't belong in this thread? Jesus, thank you for telling me. Maybe you should start your next thread with a disclaimer:
I'm not interested in a debate, if you disagree with me, please don't dare to participate. Further, I'm fanatic about one desktop environement, while I absolutely despise an other, which might seem silly to normal people, but that's all I have in my life. So if you want to bash the desktop environement I hate, go for it, but don't dare to disagree with this bashing, as this will make me very sad and I will tell my mommy.
3. I didn't bring up any other publications, learn to read.

[brian g]

-

[urbandryad]

Maybe I'm simply to allergic to this issue, as this KDE looks like windows -> KDE is a windows clone -> windows and hence KDE are evil comes up very often. Sorry if I overreacted, but I still think that dismissing a great open source project like KDE in this way isn't the way to go.


I haven't tried xandros, but from the screenshots I've seen you're absolutely right. But then again, from what I read about xandros this is absolutely their intention. So if anything this shows that KDE can be configured to resemble windows quite a bit, but the same is probably true for Gnome.
one of the recent issues covers IceWM. ^^ And I think we should make our own magazine, since we have so much to say about this one. ^^

[mrtaber]

Well, after watching quietly for some months as many software specialists in our organization settle into Linux, I have noticed that the Windows people tend to gravitate towards KDE; the Macintosh people tend to gravitate towards Gnome. I think it has to do with people using software whose underlying design goals are either what they are used to or what they prefer. I'm a Gnome man myself. And you don't need to ask: yes, I prefer Macs.

I find Tux magazine well done (but I don't think we have to pretend that Nick Petreley's famous trashing of Gnome a couple of years ago doesn't exist)--however, I tend not to read it, since it mainly covers KDE and its applications--things I don't use.

Mark :)

[`GooZ´]

If you read Tux magazine, you see many articles (or answers to reader's letters) that say the reason they're focusing more on KDE is because they have more KDE users. Also, there are many GNOME applications tested in Tux. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge gnome fan, but I think the creators of TUX have a good point.
As for Mango Parfait, I really like her pieces. And -for if you din't get this well- the fact that she's saying she was using Linux before Linus is a joke, no more than a little sarcasm. This is one of the reasons I like her colums.
Anyway, moral of the story: If you don't like TUX, don't read it. I'm a gnome user and I read every issue as soon as it comes out.
I feel an insult coming my way :roll:

[Jormundgand]

I'm a GNOME fan, but I guess I break your mould in that I don't much like OSX's design concepts (although the bar on the left of the Finder is a stroke of genius) as it feels just a little too glitzy-glamour and tends to obstruct my using the system.