Apple locks out Linux on new iPods

[ddrichardson]

Just seen on Slashdot - Apple to stops new iPods working with Linux (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/14/1831236).

[Mazza558]

Ouch, that's REALLY bad news for Linux. :???: :shock:

[LowSky]

New iPods will no longer be able to work with Linux. iTunes now writes some kind of hash (SHA1, md5?) to the iPod database which new iPods check against. If this check fails then the iPod reports that it contains 0 songs. This appears to be protection against 3rd party applications writing out their own databases. We haven't found out how to generate our own valid hashes (but we do know the hash includes the database itself, and possibly the iPod serial number), and are looking for help.

This means the standard means of getting Linux wont work... easy fix: dont use iTunes... then you can install linux if you just plug in the ipod and use it as a hard drive

[RAV TUX]

Just seen on Slashdot - Apple to stops new iPods working with Linux (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/14/1831236).

I would never buy an iPod anyway, lets hope more people start living authentic lives and realize there are better options then iPod out there.

[Dimitriid]

Seriously I hate anybody who buys and iPod: get a different brand and save 100 bucks you.... (this post was intentionally interrupted to comply with forum rules)

[Sunflower1970]

WTF?

That's just ridiculous. I don't have an iPod, nor do I want one, but seriously. That's just nuts to lock out an entire OS...

I wonder, though, I read on digg earlier today someone was able to get iTunes 7x to work with wine (I think 0.9.45) so would this mean that one could hook up their iPod to iTunes in Linux using Wine?

[OoooMatron]

Hopefully as more people wake up to this it will backfire for them and people will start avoiding their products.

[sr20ve]

That sucks, cause I really like the new ipod touch.

[23meg]

It will be cracked in a matter of days.

[RAV TUX]

WTF?

That's just ridiculous. I don't have an iPod, nor do I want one, but seriously. That's just nuts to lock out an entire OS...

I wonder, though, I read on digg earlier today someone was able to get iTunes 7x to work with wine (I think 0.9.45) so would this mean that one could hook up their iPod to iTunes in Linux using Wine?

This is quite possible


It will be cracked in a matter of days.

...and the solution will be posted and easy to use.

[Lord Illidan]

Real shame..and yep, the Ipod Nano 1st generation which I got 1 year ago will remain the only apple product in my house...rockboxed, of course.

[phrostbyte]

It will be cracked in a matter of days.

Negative.. Apple blocked Linux from using their DAAP protocol, and it still hasn't been cracked.

Boooooo [Cra]Apple. :mad:

There needs to be a concerted effort by the Linux community to boycott Apple products and defame Apple if this holds.

[PriceChild]

Grrr.... *watches #gtkpod on irc.freenode.net*

[RAV TUX]

Negative.. Apple blocked Linux from using their DAAP protocol, and it still hasn't been cracked.

Boooooo [Cra]Apple. :mad:

There needs to be a concerted effort by the Linux community to boycott Apple products and defame Apple if this holds.

This is a great idea but the only way the masses will listen is also to boycott Apple for the many other reasons they should be boycotted, like how Slave-like labor and abuse of women is systematically utilized in the Chinese factories that they contract out to have their iPods made. They do this with full knowledge of the human rights abuses that exist.

[p_quarles]

One of the commenters on Slashdot pointed out that this will probably lead a lot of people -- not just Linux users -- to look into replacing the OS on the iPod. I think that's probably true. There are lots of people who own iPods and never touch iTunes.

Lockdown policies haven't yet backfired on any major vendor in a serious (read: beyond the OSS community) way, but I really believe that as these policies become more Draconian the larger public is going to get fed up.

[Frak]

I have to go with Apple on this one. They do make products that were only made for their stuff.

Is it wrong? Totally, but they still have the right to do so.

Plus, it'll be cracked in 2 weeks, 4 tops.

EDIT
Also, don't buy stuff that you know doesn't work with your stuff. There are plenty of alternatives.

[karellen]

its their product and their right to impose any restrictions and do whatever they want with it. the market will give the ultimate test. and until now, the market has given Apple a big Yes!...
ipods are a huge success. even if the whole linux community will boycott Apple, it still doesn't make any significant difference

[Ultra Magnus]

This is hard to believe - Who uses iTunes? - especially on windows - there has never been a more annoying piece of software.... maybe bonzi buddy but that was less intrusive than itunes... and easier to remove!

I suspect this will be annoying to allot of people, but in the end they'll just use itunes until it gets cracked.

Anyone else hate itunes? - or is it just me

[zenwhen]

This doesn't really affect me since I love iTunes and own a Mac, but it is rather annoying that they are removing functionality from their products.

[Kingsley]

This is hard to believe - Who uses iTunes? - especially on windows - there has never been a more annoying piece of software.... maybe bonzi buddy but that was less intrusive than itunes... and easier to remove!

I suspect this will be annoying to allot of people, but in the end they'll just use itunes until it gets cracked.

Anyone else hate itunes? - or is it just me
What do you hate about iTunes? I've only messed around with it for a couple of days and I gotta admit that there are a lot of nice features combined with a simple, but elegant, UI. The interface is very similar to Songbird, actually.

[LowSky]

WTF?

That's just ridiculous. I don't have an iPod, nor do I want one, but seriously. That's just nuts to lock out an entire OS...

I wonder, though, I read on digg earlier today someone was able to get iTunes 7x to work with wine (I think 0.9.45) so would this mean that one could hook up their iPod to iTunes in Linux using Wine?

If that is true then awsome I have a bunch of Apple purchased TV shows I want to run under linux without converting them.



This is hard to believe - Who uses iTunes? - especially on windows - there has never been a more annoying piece of software.... maybe bonzi buddy but that was less intrusive than itunes... and easier to remove!

I suspect this will be annoying to allot of people, but in the end they'll just use itunes until it gets cracked.

Anyone else hate itunes? - or is it just me

I dont hate Apple or iTunes, it is that way because of the DRM crap that the music/TV industry wants. Steve Jobs would sell DRM free music and TV if record labels and TV channels didnt care. All I'm mad about is that NBC shows won't be available anymore. Now I will have to record the Office (I love that show) with commercials. I rather just pay $2 an episode or $35 for the season to have episodes without interuption.

[Dimitriid]

You're wrong: it is that way because you give into whatever the RIAA tries to enforce and support DRM products.

[iPower]

Seriously I hate anybody who buys and iPod: get a different brand and save 100 bucks you.... (this post was intentionally interrupted to comply with forum rules)

get a zune ? :confused:







;)

[Spike-X]

Why does every business to do with entertainment these days have to go out of their way to make their products harder for people to use?

[Spike-X]

Seriously I hate anybody who buys and iPod: get a different brand and save 100 bucks you....

Bite m...

(this post was intentionally interrupted to comply with forum rules)

[ComplexNumber]

"where there's a will there's a way"

[Spike-X]

Oh, I don't doubt there's be a workaround/hack, and there's always Rockbox, but still...it's the principle of the thing, dammit!

[Nano Geek]

I would never buy an iPod anyway, lets hope more people start living authentic lives and realize there are better options then iPod out there.


Seriously I hate anybody who buys and iPod: get a different brand and save 100 bucks you.... (this post was intentionally interrupted to comply with forum rules)Hey guys, lets calm down OK?
Some of us actually like our iPods and think that they are worth the money we paid for them.
You don't have to agree, but lets try not to be rude.

Thank you

[lisati]

I would never buy an iPod anyway, lets hope more people start living authentic lives and realize there are better options then iPod out there.

There are often more cost effective ways of listening to music than the iPod - one example (similar to the one I sometime use) can be found at http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/46eb115400682470273fc0a87f3306a7/Product/View/A5315 - not the greatest of capactities but better than nothing!

[p_quarles]

I don't really think this has anything to do with DRM. After all iTunes doesn't slap any encryption onto the songs you rip from CDs, and none of the third-party apps that work with older iPods are able to deal with current iTMS DRM.

This is all about vendor lock-in, and it's just continuing the pattern of the iPhone.

Apple has an uneasy truce with MS, and they've both been porting a lot of apps to the other side. I think Linux might present more of a threat to Apple than MS does, though. A) It's becoming a contender in the market for people who've gotten sick of Windows, and B) It's among the best embedded OSes for running gadgets. These are Apple's main market base, so it makes sense that they don't want to promote Linux.

It's ugly, but that's the game.

[Nano Geek]

Since when has lockout ever stopped Linux hackers. :)

[Spr0k3t]

http://anythingbutipod.com/

I hate apple.

[Spike-X]

There are often more cost effective ways of listening to music than the iPod - one example (similar to the one I sometime use) can be found at http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/46eb115400682470273fc0a87f3306a7/Product/View/A5315 - not the greatest of capactities but better than nothing!

Actually, when you break it down on a megabytes-per-dollar basis, my 80Gb iPod is a lot more cost-effective than the product shown here.

[LookTJ]

http://anythingbutipod.com/

I hate apple.argh apple agreed


they bought our CUPS and they don't give back to the open source community.

[markp1989]

Originally Posted by Dimitriid
Seriously I hate anybody who buys and iPod: get a different brand and save 100 bucks you.... (this post was intentionally interrupted to comply with forum rules)

How can you hate some one because they buy and iPod its their money whats it to do with you!

[SunnyRabbiera]

trust me give it time and someone will crack this, linux has always been good at cracking safes

[Ultra Magnus]

What do you hate about iTunes? I've only messed around with it for a couple of days and I gotta admit that there are a lot of nice features combined with a simple, but elegant, UI. The interface is very similar to Songbird, actually.

Its not the UI I don't like - its that its so horribly slow and even if you never use it it tries to take over your computer - why does it need to open whenever I open a music file with any media player?! - And getting rid of it was very difficult, even after I'd uninstalled it and removed all the files I could find It still tried to open itself but then kept coming up with messages about how It couldn't find itself - I never managed to get rid of it completely - I just decided, as its nearly time for the biannual reinstall of Windows I should just completely hose my machine so theres no remenant of it left anywhere!

[fearevilleet]

Hi,

Check this out http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/2007/09/apple-cuts-us-off.htm (http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/2007/09/apple-cuts-us-off.html)l Apple is locking everyone into itunes, which means people using linux wont be able to use a new ipod.

Wonder how long till its cracked?

[PhatStreet]

How can you hate some one because they buy and iPod its their money whats it to do with you!
Because it's supporting poor business practices? This is something I'd expect from Microsoft...

And the headline's not really getting the whole story across, although I'm sure anyone that read article would know that. But complete iTunes lock-in? Damn.

[MetalMusicAddict]

SOURCE (http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/2007/09/apple-cuts-us-off.html)

"New iPods will no longer be able to work with Linux. iTunes now writes some kind of hash (SHA1, md5?) to the iPod database which new iPods check against. If this check fails then the iPod reports that it contains 0 songs. This appears to be protection against 3rd party applications writing out their own databases. We haven't found out how to generate our own valid hashes (but we do know the hash includes the database itself, and possibly the iPod serial number), and are looking for help."

Really. What good reason would they have to do this. Using iPods on linux still translates to hardware sales. So confusing.

[Kingsley]

Go like 2 topics down lol. You're a few hours late :D.

[Ozor Mox]

Really. What good reason would they have to do this.

Because they suck.

[~LoKe]

They're not blocking linux, they're blocking 3rd party applications which are used to transfer songs to the iPod. This means fewer people using iTunes, which could result in less income for Apple. It not functioning with Linux is just a side effect which I'm sure they don't desire.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Go like 2 topics down lol. You're a few hours late :D.

Funny a search didn't turn it up. I don't look through the sections. I asked for a merge.

[DouglasAWh]

I'm under the impression that there's not an iTunes for Linux, so if they really cared if people were buying iPods and using them with Linux, they'd have an iTunes for Linux. Of course, there's WINE, but I don't personally want their DRM infested crap anyway.

[sloggerkhan]

Question: if you have rockbox can you get rhythmbox or a music management app to sync libraries with for the rockbox player instead of treating it like an iPod?

The big downside: People who have made extensive use of m4a/aac encoding.
There are MANY players as good or better than the iPod with competitive prices. But they all tend to be wma, mp3, and ogg, maybe even flac players without the mp4/aac support. So if you wanted to upgrade from a nano or something and you don't want another iPod, you now have a bunch of music possibly stuck in the m4a/aac format.
You could convert formats at a quality loss, I guess, but better hope you have actual CDs or something.

Lesson: if you are using iTunes, rip to MP3 and don't use AAC/M4A....

[caver1]

its their product and their right to impose any restrictions and do whatever they want with it. the market will give the ultimate test. and until now, the market has given Apple a big Yes!...
ipods are a huge success. even if the whole linux community will boycott Apple, it still doesn't make any significant difference

I'm sorry but that is wrong. Does Ford tell you where to buy gas?
Even the Europeans said it was wrong. They can buy Ipods then get their music from anywhere using any OS they want.
Anyone who thinks its their product so they can decide what you can do with it Will be lead by anybody. :(
caver1

[ExSuSEusr]

If memory serves me right... the Mac OS X is based off Linux... anyway... don't quote me on that.

I like OSX, but the hardware in an Apple is terribly unreliable. Macs are way over priced.

I don't like products as proprietary as what Apple makes.

Make no mistake - the only reason Apple's stock hasn't plummeted and or the company gone through huge lay-offs is because of the iPod. The iPod is what's keeping Apple 'in business' so to speak.

[Ozor Mox]

the Mac OS X is based off Linux

Actually a variant of BSD.

[p_quarles]

OS X is built on top of the Mach microkernel and a bunch of FreeBSD Unix modules. Not Linux at all.

I'm not big on Apple either, but all of my Apple-user friends never complain about the hardware being unreliable. I think that's usually the selling point.

[DouglasAWh]

I didn't realize how many posts there were earlier when I posted. I think I just saw the first page. I haven't read the article, but I'm a little confused. Did they lock people out of installing Linux on iPods or did the lock Linux users from connecting iPods. I read the post and immediately assumed that it meant that we couldn't install Linux on iPods anymore, but after seeing a couple more, I think that might not be the case. Again, I don't want their DRM crap.

Apple machines though do work rather nicely, closed or not. This isn't something that can typically be said about Windows. Of course, Mac controls the hardware, which makes it a much easier job than Windows has trying to run on lots of peoples stuff.

Of course, if it was open, companies would just fix it for their hardware...ugh.

[Spike-X]

Did they lock people out of installing Linux on iPods or did the lock Linux users from connecting iPods.

The latter.

[DouglasAWh]

Lesson: if you are using iTunes, rip to MP3 and don't use AAC/M4A....

mp3? um, lets use flac or ogg, please.

EDIT: Thanks Spike-X

[MetalMusicAddict]

mp3? um, lets use flac or ogg, please.

Yeah really. Ill buy a iPod touch when I can put Rockbox on it and be done. ;)

Greetings from Raleigh.

[peabody]

It'll probably get cracked, but why bother? I think its time people stopped supporting this elitist/monopolist company and bought hardware that supports linux and open source codecs such as ogg vorbis.

[Frak]

I think one day they'll cut off support for Windows also.

Look deeper into the situation and you'll find that they are using the iPod as a medium to sell the Mac. Its so well hidden because its right in front of our eyes.

Apple created the Mac, that's what they will strive to sell, always. Not the iPod, not the iPhone (also, the new iPod looks like the iPhone), just the Macintosh.

My 2 cents

[lisati]

Actually, when you break it down on a megabytes-per-dollar basis, my 80Gb iPod is a lot more cost-effective than the product shown here.

Thank you - that's something that's easily missed by "casual browsers" such as myself.

[allforcarrie]

this is hte kind of crap that keeps alot of people from linux. if i cant use my ipod there is no way i would ude it as my primary OS.

[Nano Geek]

I think one day they'll cut off support for Windows also.

Look deeper into the situation and you'll find that they are using the iPod as a medium to sell the Mac. Its so well hidden because its right in front of our eyes.

Apple created the Mac, that's what they will strive to sell, always. Not the iPod, not the iPhone (also, the new iPod looks like the iPhone), just the Macintosh.

My 2 centsObviously.
PCs are more profitable than mp3 players. But if you get a good audio player out of it, who cares?

[Kingsley]

Its not the UI I don't like - its that its so horribly slow and even if you never use it it tries to take over your computer - why does it need to open whenever I open a music file with any media player?! - And getting rid of it was very difficult, even after I'd uninstalled it and removed all the files I could find It still tried to open itself but then kept coming up with messages about how It couldn't find itself - I never managed to get rid of it completely - I just decided, as its nearly time for the biannual reinstall of Windows I should just completely hose my machine so theres no remenant of it left anywhere!
I would've replied to you earlier but my VBox'd WinXP BLUESCREENED on me before I could mess around with Itunes. Then the POS wouldn't boot back up.

Anyway, I'm in Itunes on Vista now and I'm not experiencing your problems too badly. Itunes does start up SLOW but after that it's responsive. All your music files must've opened up with Itunes by default because that's what you chose during the installation. I unchecked that option during my installation so WMP is still the default player.

The only thing that pissed me off about Itunes is that it installed Apple's Quicktime instead of using the QT Alternative that I already have. Other than that, Itunes is a pretty good piece of software. I can see why it's so popular with tons of non-Linux users.

[agustin.g]

hardware that supports linux

like the Zune (http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/29/linux-claimed-to-be-running-on-zune/)?

:p just kidding

[sloggerkhan]

mp3? um, lets use flac or ogg, please.

EDIT: Thanks Spike-X

The only reason I was saying mp3 is I was referring to people using iTunes, which doesn't support those formats...

[FuturePilot]

That's dumb. So know it's iTunes or nothing. Glad I don't have one. They're getting as bad as MS.

[il-luzhin]

http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/2007/09/apple-cuts-us-off.html

[~LoKe]

Too bad they can't cut the reposts out, too.

[n3tfury]

rofl

[cmat]

I'm getting one of those sandisk mp3 players instead of that overpriced crap that apple puts out for your consumption.

[Alterax]

If Linux is such a big problem to Mac, perhaps they should exploit us instead of trying to force us out of the picture. I'm willing to bet that a significant amount of ipod Linux users WOULD use a native Linux version of iTunes. It can't be too difficult to port the code from Aqua/Darwin running on BSD (Sorry, I mean, Mac OS X) to Linux. Then they stand a chance of snagging a few more customers.

[starcraft.man]

HA! I knew they'd do this one day or another. Well, no skin off my back... my PSP just keeps on ticking with music/vids :).

Oh and on a side note, I'm betting inside 2 months this hashing their doing gets busted.

[Incense]

Yeah, so it doesn't work today. Big deal. Lets flash back to when the first ipod came out in 01. I really doubt it worked on Linux back then. These really are a new product, just give it time. I would really love to see rockbox on the touch. I bet the community could develop some really sweet themes for that!

[igknighted]

Real shame..and yep, the Ipod Nano 1st generation which I got 1 year ago will remain the only apple product in my house...rockboxed, of course.

+1, I also have a first gen nano (bought because it was CHEAPER than all comparable products), running the free rockbox firmware. TBH I never use it any more though... in fact I can't even remember where it is now that I think about it...

[K.Mandla]

Threads merged. ;)

[Dimitriid]

Hey guys, lets calm down OK?
Some of us actually like our iPods and think that they are worth the money we paid for them.
You don't have to agree, but lets try not to be rude.

Thank you

Yea well some people actually defend Windows Vista, WGA and DRM schemes, doesn't means I have to like it or agree or even tolerate getting anywhere near apple or apple fanboys ( not that I am implying you or anybody here is one however )

[mrgnash]

This is not bad news for Linux, just further proof that Apple are a-holes.

[karellen]

Yea well some people actually defend Windows Vista, WGA and DRM schemes, doesn't means I have to like it or agree or even tolerate getting anywhere near apple or apple fanboys ( not that I am implying you or anybody here is one however )

not liking is one thing and attack other person because of his opinions is another ;)

[kinematic]

Who needs an Ipod anyway, give me a Cowon Iaudio anyday over one those stupid things. The sound quality of an Iaudio is far superior and unlike Apple Cowon actually advertises the fact that their players work with Linux.

[DirtDawg]

Rude S.O.B.s.

Yet another reason to use Rockbox.

[LookTJ]

they didn't block us out...Use iTunes 7 via WINE and no problems

[Spike-X]

I didn't think iTunes worked with WINE?

EDIT: Never mind, I just saw the thread.

[bobbocanfly]

I did quite fancy getting the new iPod Nano when it was announced and i had said to my friends when Apple gave you a non DRM option on iTurnes i would probably get one. But if apple seriously think anyone is going to buy one now, they must have severe disabilities.

**Boycotts all apple products**

[stimpack]

Yes Apple are A-holes, Ive got a Macbook and the new video nano. Nice products but they are very much about lock-in and cash-extraction, they are not very consumer focused, which makes me seriously wonder what is going on inside a Apple fanboys head.

[Grimgoil]

I just got the new Ipod 3rd gen, really disappointed to hear that apple are being so obnoxious to Linux - though that should be flattering to the power linux is gaining now. The reason i got the Ipod was gapless playing which isn't too common in players today, and is the best between them all in my opinion.

I believe it will be hacked I mean..common.. but thanks of course to everyone who are working on this.

[Nano Geek]

Yea well some people actually defend Windows Vista, WGA and DRM schemes, doesn't means I have to like it or agree or even tolerate getting anywhere near apple or apple fanboys ( not that I am implying you or anybody here is one however )Of course you don't have to like it or agree with it, but I thought that those two comments where you said you hated anyone who bought an Apple product and Rav Tux's where he said for people who bought an iPod to get a life were rude to those who actually like Apple.

You can disagree without calling names.

[Nano Geek]

I just got the new Ipod 3rd gen, really disappointed to hear that apple are being so obnoxious to Linux - though that should be flattering to the power linux is gaining now. The reason i got the Ipod was gapless playing which isn't too common in players today, and is the best between them all in my opinion.

I believe it will be hacked I mean..common.. but thanks of course to everyone who are working on this.No matter how flattering it is, they aren't blocking Linux specifically.

They wanted to block third-party apps, most of them in Windows, from accessing iPods so people would use iTunes.

In my mind, that was a mistake on their part.

[MattBD]

I actually bought an 80GB iPod Video a few weeks ago. I was a bit gutted to find out that they'd released the iPod Classic, as I could have got the 160GB version for around the same as I paid for it. But now I'm very glad I bought the 5th generation one. Although I do generally use iTunes to put music on there (as I still have access to a Windows computer), I also like to plug it into my laptop running Kubuntu Feisty and play songs on it using Amarok.
I'm sick to death of companies like Apple locking people out by doing things like this.
In the longer term, I think the only solution is for someone to create a digital audio player designed to conform to open standards, perhaps capable of playing Ogg Vorbis and FLAC as well as MP3. Maybe the Free Software Foundation ought to look into doing something like this - there are already MP3 players that are certified as being Ogg Vorbis compatible. Sony seem to be moving away from having proprietary software for their MP3 players and just using ordinary drag-and-drop file transfers - maybe they might be amenable to doing something like this?

[SonicSteve]

Forgive me if this has been asked already, I didn't see it skimming through the thread.

This would mean that even windows users are stuck using Itunes correct? No third party apps will work for them either right?

Perhaps it's not so much locking out Linux as it is simply forcing proprietary brands on the end user. You want an Ipod, you have to use Itunes. Apple is just being more forceful about the proprietary standards they already had. It's always been a disadvantage to use a third party app with your Ipod, all the comparisons I've seen indicate that a third party app lacks the full functionality with the Ipod that Itunes has.

I've always told people to avoid Ipods, a previous posting said, buy something else, save $100 bucks. I wish more people understood that Ipods limit you, not the other way around.

[Nano Geek]

Forgive me if this has been asked already, I didn't see it skimming through the thread.

This would mean that even windows users are stuck using Itunes correct? No third party apps will work for them either right?

Perhaps it's not so much locking out Linux as it is simply forcing proprietary brands on the end user. You want an Ipod, you have to use Itunes. Apple is just being more forceful about the proprietary standards they already had. It's always been a disadvantage to use a third party app with your Ipod, all the comparisons I've seen indicate that a third party app lacks the full functionality with the Ipod that Itunes has.

I've always told people to avoid Ipods, a previous posting said, buy something else, save $100 bucks. I wish more people understood that Ipods limit you, not the other way around.You are correct. No third-party program can access the new iPods.

We understand that the iPods "limit" you, but for me at least, they are worth the price.

[Spike-X]

I wonder if this is, in part, to prevent the use of programs such as YamiPod, that can also copy music back off an iPod? In other words, yet another crippling of functionality in order to placate the anti-fair use...er, piracy...lobby.

[Old Pink]

"My computer is crappy slow"
"You should try Ubuntu"
"What's that?"
"Just an operating system, like Windows or Mac OS, but faster and better"
"Cool, will all my stuff work on it?"
"Sure, pretty much, or there'll be an alternative"
"What about my iPod?"

It always gets asked. What about iTunes? Or what about my iPod?

It's going to get harder to introduce people to Linux as the new iPods gain popularity. I wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft played a part in this, you know.

[p_quarles]

"My computer is crappy slow"
"You should try Ubuntu"
"What's that?"
"Just an operating system, like Windows or Mac OS, but faster and better"
"Cool, will all my stuff work on it?"
"Sure, pretty much, or there'll be an alternative"
"What about my iPod?"

(1 month in the future)

"Sure. You can run iTunes in wine, or you can install as-yet-unwritten-iPod-hack-app."

[Spike-X]

Cory Doctorow offers his perspective on BoingBoing: (http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/14/new-ipods-reengineer.html)

"It's hard to understand why Apple would do this, but the most likely explanations are that Apple wants to be sure that competitors can't build their own players to load up iPods -- now that half of the major labels have gone DRM free, it's conceivable that we'd get a Rhapsody or Amazon player that automatically loaded the non-DRM tracks they sold you on your iPod (again, note that this has nothing to do with preventing piracy -- this is about preventing competition with the iTunes Store).

It won't be the first time Apple has rejigged iTunes/iPod to lock out competitors: back when Real built a DRM player for its own music that would run on an iPod, Apple threatened to sue them and engineered a firmware update to break their code (again, nothing to do with fighting piracy). This is the soul of anti-competitiveness: Real made code that iPod owners could use to get more legal use out of their iPods, Apple threatened to sue them for endangering their monopoly over delivering iPod software.

The law of the land has generally been that compatibility is legal, even if it undermines your profitability -- making a product does not create a monopoly over everything that your customers might do with that product.

I guess my next player won't be an iPod after all. "

I think I might be with him on that. Once my current iPod wears out, that's it. I'll be abandoning the iPod for the same reason I'm abandoning Windows - I refuse to pay good money for a product that goes out of its way to stop me using it the way I want to use it, and I damn well refuse to pay good money for a product that expects me to throw more good money away on an operating system I've already decided I don't wish to use.

[Johnsie]

People will stop using ipods once they realise there are cheaper and better alternatives out there. The mp3 player market hasn't really had time to mature yet. I've had an mp3 player since 1999 but most non-geek people are still new to the idea. Apples biggest problem at the moment is that standard mobile phones are now able to do what their Ipod does and in many ways they do it alot better. People who have buying Samsung, Nokia and Sony mobile phones for years are now using their phones for their media and forgetting about their ipods. Most people feel a need to carry their phones with them but less of a need to carry and ipod or mp3 player. The idea of an offline portable music player is old-hat now. Phones are taking over and Apple isn't dominant in the mobile phone industry. They may have the iphone, but other companies already have the edge in an already crowded market.

So, I dont really care what apple do.... They may be successful in the mobile phone industry for a while but I can't see them dominating the portable media player market for much longer.

[Mazza558]

Hey everyone, looks like people have figured out the hash code. Check out #gtkpod on freenode.net :)

EDIT: They're nearly done.

[Nano Geek]

Hey everyone, looks like people have figured out the hash code. Check out #gtkpod on freenode.net :)

EDIT: They're nearly done.Good for them!
=D>=D>=D>

[Frak]

Knew it was going to happen :)

[Mazza558]

Good for them!
=D>=D>=D>

Indeed, the conversation has moved from solutions to just general iPod talk - everyone's waiting for the breakthrough (which, by the sound of it, is just around the corner) :)

Of course, the workaround will have to be intergrated somehow into any linux media player that needs ipod support.

EDIT: It's finished, just need people to check that it works :)

[p_quarles]

That was fast. :)

Of course, corporations will continue to refuse to learn anything from this. I mean, we've already gone through this cycle how many times? And we just keep getting more vendor lock-in and DRM stuff.

[Mazza558]

Just goes to show, people work night and day for software freedom - and I think that is fanstastic :)

I have to say, I said "YES!!" under my breath when they had done it. +1 to freedom, -1 to monopoly! :)

[Depressed Man]

Kinda related I guess. I'm thinking about getting a new iPod (well still deciding between touch or the HDD space). But will Rockbox work on them?

[DirtDawg]

Kinda related I guess. I'm thinking about getting a new iPod (well still deciding between touch or the HDD space). But will Rockbox work on them?

Rockbox generally takes some time to catch up to newer models, so the short answer is "no, probably not for awhile". Double check the Rockbox site and forums though, since I'm only guessing.

The new system referred to in this thread, however, shouldn't affect Rockbox because with Rockbox you just drag/drop files onto your ipod just like any other external HD. No need for "middle-man" software to transfer music.

[dasunst3r]

Kinda related I guess. I'm thinking about getting a new iPod (well still deciding between touch or the HDD space). But will Rockbox work on them?You should consider getting a Sandisk Sansa instead. I've personally used one for a while, and they are decent players. iPod is overrated. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to get the notion that the amount of marketing you see on a product is inversely proportional to the product's quality.

[Depressed Man]

Well yeah (which is why I haven't bothered with an iPod till recently). I do have a 2GB one right now. Though it's one of those really small ones. I don't listen to much of the music I have though I figure I could always throw a ton of video on there too.

My friends have told me about other products that have Wifi support (which is what I'm primarily interested in for the iPod touch) that also have music/video support. And I was considering the classic iPod just for the sheer space (nice in case my HDDs ever die *knocks on wood*). Most mp3 players I've seen don't have as much space?

Any recommendations for those with wifi, mp3, and video? Or a HUGE mp3/video?

And yes that does seem to be the trend now. I'm learning about marketing trends in my consumer behavior class. And it's scary being able to pinpoint each company and their products to each specific marketing strategy lol.

[p_quarles]

I have the 2 GB Sansa as well, so I can't recommend anything else (without lying, that is, mwa-ha), but you might find this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_portable_media_players) [wikipedia] useful. There are quite a few non-Apple HDD-based media players out there.

[vexorian]

I have to go with Apple on this one. They do make products that were only made for their stuff.

Is it wrong? Totally, but they still have the right to do so
They don't, at least in a rational world they shouldn't have this right, this is anticompetitive monopoly abuse and antitrust laws are supposed to defend consumers against them.

[nwcowboysfan]

Well, for those of us who like iPods and want to use linux applications to manage our music, help may be on the way!!

via Digg (again): http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/...Supported.html

Here is the info on how to fix the problem, I haven't tried it myself yet, but plan to when I get home.

http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/

[the.dark.lord]

argh apple agreed


they bought our CUPS and they don't give back to the open source community.

True. And, now, they're against us. Something needs to be said of biting the hand that feeds you.

[Bannor]

http://www.spiralfrog.com

use this instead

[sinaen]

have you read this???

http://ipodminusitunes.blogspot.com/2007/09/weve-won.html

and

http://www.backdot.com/?p=50

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::guitar::guitar::popcor n:

[sinaen]

http://www.spiralfrog.com

use this instead

Cannot get into their page, cause i do not live in canada or usa..

bummer!

[p_quarles]

Cannot get into their page, cause i do not live in canada or usa..

bummer!
Last I heard, SpiralFrog is only offering .wma "plays for sure" files. So, alas, no real advantage over iTunes.

[Frak]

Here's the source code to generate the hash.

[rzrgenesys187]

And i had just started to applaud apple for allowing hacking of the iPhone.

[vexorian]

can't apple just make itunes download a firmware update and change the hash on ipods and continue the annoyance?

[Frak]

Yes, but it will most likely be cracked again in about 3-9 days.

[p_quarles]

can't apple just make itunes download a firmware update and change the hash on ipods and continue the annoyance?
If you're using iTunes to sync your iPod, then presumably you wouldn't find this to be an annoyance in the first place. If you use gtkpod, then, no, Apple couldn't change your firmware.

[vexorian]

But then the problem is that potential converts probably used itunes before trying ubuntu.

And some may still use itunes in windows and boot from windows for some reason.

And if they use the ipod in another computer to recharge it or something itunes will do it.



Yes, but it will most likely be cracked again in about 3-9 days.


We would need a very fast way to update the user's software, packages tend not to be updated quick to repositories, and a 3 days window may be too much for a recent convert and will end up blaming ubuntu on apple's evil screw ups.

We need a more long term solution, I hope some Linux company decides to sue apple on the recent terms that have affected MS in the European union.

[Frak]

Though, it would take Apple awhile to update also. Plus, the program could make itself update, instead of having the OS do it. Much faster.

[Dr. C]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC on Apple's anti-competitive moves.
Maybe Microsoft should not be the only company to have to face the wrath of a certain EU commission.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7002612.stm

[p_quarles]

But then the problem is that potential converts probably used itunes before trying ubuntu.

And some may still use itunes in windows and boot from windows for some reason.

And if they use the ipod in another computer to recharge it or something itunes will do it.
Good point. I guess i was thinking more about people who already use Linux and are aware of the bs you get from vendors.

One possible solution might be for someone (with a helpful spirit and a lot of bandwidth) to start hosting an archive of iPod firmware installers. That way, firmware updates executed by iTunes wouldn't be irrevocable.

[Selcal]

are you serious? You know it will get cracked in a matter of days. 1 month at the most. Linux users are crafty

[Spike-X]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC on Apple's anti-competitive moves.

Is this the same BBC who recently restricted their entire free, taxpayer-funded online archives to be accessible to Windows users only?

[mips]

Is this the same BBC who recently restricted their entire free, taxpayer-funded online archives to be accessible to Windows users only?

The very same one ;)

But I suspect the BBC got wrapped over the knuckles and now have to support non-windows people as well.

[vexorian]

Is this the same BBC who recently restricted their entire free, taxpayer-funded online archives to be accessible to Windows users only?
They then opened it up for all taxpayer moving out from the dumb MS format, we all should take the UK as an example of what true democracy and defense of your rights is.

[Frak]

They then opened it up for all taxpayer moving out from the dumb MS format, we all should take the UK as an example of what true democracy and defense of your rights is.

=D>

[edward4130]

Sad thing I personally love the ipods, use them on my mac and with ubuntu. The reason they are so nice is that they have at least 4 times as many cases and mounts than any other device.

We will find a work around in due time or they will firmware patch when they realize that it is a bad idea. Linux is not taking away from Mac/Apple, they are growing due to Windows Vista being so bad. They will grow in market share the same way they have been for years, by building a superior product. (feel free to flame, I wont listen) it is just my opinion.

And yes I have two Apple macs, and two Ubuntu machines, I DO not and will not use Winblows for anything.

Edward4130 (Kansas City,KS)

[zachtib]

Yep, I have a 4G iPod Photo that just bricked itself, and thanks to this new BS from Apple, my replacement WONT be an iPod, even though the new classic is a great deal (80GB for $250).

*update* my iPod decided to boot again after being bricked for a few days, it's currently charging, but hopefully, it'll work

[Nano Geek]

Yep, I have a 4G iPod Photo that just bricked itself, and thanks to this new BS from Apple, my replacement WONT be an iPod, even though the new classic is a great deal (80GB for $250).

*update* my iPod decided to boot again after being bricked for a few days, it's currently charging, but hopefully, it'll workI don't get what's so bad. The GTKPod guys have fixed the problem so everything should be fine, right?

[Spike-X]

The very same one ;)

But I suspect the BBC got wrapped over the knuckles and now have to support non-windows people as well.
I wasn't aware/had forgotten the decision had been reversed. Thanks for the info!

[zachtib]

I don't get what's so bad. The GTKPod guys have fixed the problem so everything should be fine, right?

It's just that I don't feel like supporting a company that has gone out of it's way to lock out Linux users, even if the bloacks have been cracked.

[Nano Geek]

It's just that I don't feel like supporting a company that has gone out of it's way to lock out Linux users, even if the bloacks have been cracked.I hate having to say this again, but they were not blocking out Linux users specifically. They were blocking out third-party programs from accessing the iPod. While it does block Linux users, you could install iTunes with Wine, or just not plug your iPod into iTunes at all.

[bruce89]

The BBC is just misguided, anyway it was Bill Thomson not the BBC who wrote that.