[SOLVED] ubuntu is becoming boring these days..

[arnieboy]

Ubuntu is becoming a bit boring these days.. updates from backports are slow to come.. nothing new or spectacular is happening... atleast its not apparent on the forums.. no new softwares.. Gaim isnt improving.. still cant voice chat on yahoo.. its almost like deja vu.. what happened on windows.. boring.. boring.. breezy should inject a new lease of life into the ubuntu community but the stable release is still a few months away :(

[wvslkr]

If you are that bored nothing stopping you from upgrading now. Should give you something to fix. :)

[arnieboy]

If you are that bored nothing stopping you from upgrading now. Should give you something to fix. :)
haha ya.. i guess so.. but am waiting for the transition of all the breezy code into gcc 4.0.. before i do a dist upgrade. is that over?

[Kyral]

I agree and I disagree

I agree in that too much stability is a bad thing for us who LOVE to tinker

Yet I also disagree because stability is also VERY good..

So if you want fun, go upgrade to Breezy now :D

[wvslkr]

Haven't been following that closely. Personally loaded PCBSD to have something to play with. :)

[arnieboy]

I agree and I disagree

I agree in that too much stability is a bad thing for us who LOVE to tinker

Yet I also disagree because stability is also VERY good..

So if you want fun, go upgrade to Breezy now :D
I dont mind stability myself.. I dont mind it at all.. and I dont find stability boring or depressing.. but somehow I feel noone's coming up with any spectacular softwares these days.. I want to see more and more real open source options for free or commerical windows software.. and I hate to see yahoo and google continuing to ignore linux.. none of their nifty softwares have linux ports.. damn it.. its gettingto the point of becoming frustrating.. i wouldn't have minded going over to the google headquarters and starting a civil protest with banners et al in front of their main door if I had the time.. heh

[poofyhairguy]

Ubuntu is becoming a bit boring these days.. nothing new or spectacular is happening...

I 100% disagree.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=54476&page=1&pp=10

[arnieboy]

I 100% disagree.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=54476&page=1&pp=10
well i never liked enlightenment too much either :( drat!! and double drat !!

[newbie2]

haha ya.. i guess so.. but am waiting for the transition of all the breezy code into gcc 4.0.. before i do a dist upgrade. is that over?
take a 'snapshot' -->

snapshot
gcc (4.0.1) 4.0.1
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu

[arnieboy]

take a 'snapshot' -->

snapshot
gcc (4.0.1) 4.0.1
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu
watching ubuntu hog the number one spot on distrowatch for one year is even more boring.. damn it.. what are the other distros upto? maybe they shd give up and let linux have only one distro and have all the windows s/w's ported to linux in 5 days!

[poofyhairguy]

watching ubuntu hog the number one spot on distrowatch for one year is even more boring.. damn it..

I think its exciting.


what are the other distros upto?

Same as always. Except for SUSE, its changed a lot recently.



maybe they shd give up and let linux have only one distro and have all the windows s/w's ported to linux in 5 days!

Now THAT sounds boring.

[N'Jal]

If you want interesting install gentoo, never used it much but it's damn interesting to install :p (No im not distro bashing, if i didn't have ubuntu i would use gentoo), though i found out gentoo is a type of penguin (rather obvious now why gentoo was called gentoo now, therefor the next ubuntu release should be the rocking rockhopper (rockhoppers look so much cooler than gentoo's anyway)

[-Rick-]

Ubuntu is becoming a bit boring these days..
True, thats why I installed and started to use FreeBSD. FreeBSD and Gentoo aren't boring at all :)

[drizek]

apt-get install kde

(or enlightenment)

learning a new DE is always fun.

[crane]

No matter how stable they make it..... I can break it :)
Never a dull moment.

[adamb10]

I overcame the hump of tinkering around browsing through the menus looking for something to mess up.

Ubuntu is boring right now and will only stay this way until Breezy comes in October.
Gentoo Installs are always very fun. I can do a stage 3 in 4 hours.

[arnieboy]

If you want interesting install gentoo, never used it much but it's damn interesting to install :p (No im not distro bashing, if i didn't have ubuntu i would use gentoo), though i found out gentoo is a type of penguin (rather obvious now why gentoo was called gentoo now, therefor the next ubuntu release should be the rocking rockhopper (rockhoppers look so much cooler than gentoo's anyway)
yeah gentoo seems to be the way to go.. had been a thorough redhatter for 5 years before moving to Ubuntu.. hadnt even tried Debian before.. will try out gentoo though.. the portage system sounds exciting enuf :)

[arnieboy]

No matter how stable they make it..... I can break it :)
Never a dull moment.
hahaha...

[poofyhairguy]

In this case, is boring a good thing?

No news is good news type deal?

[arnieboy]

apt-get install kde

(or enlightenment)

learning a new DE is always fun.
KDE is something which I used much more than Gnome before I switched to Ubuntu and i installed KDE the day I installed Ubuntu.. My love for KDE goes back to the early years of this millennium when GNOME 1.x used to crash every 10 minutes with all its erstwhile eyecandy.. Enlightenment never really excited me though it used to be the default window manager on redhat in the yesteryears.. never liked it too much... gave E17 a try.. didnt like it toomuch either.. :( but then this is a problem of personal preferences I guess..

[arnieboy]

In this case, is boring a good thing?

No news is good news type deal?
naa.... no news suggests sloth... heh.. talking of news read the following article if u already haven't:
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/gates.html

[npaladin2000]

Fact is, most distros out there have been doing "more of the same" lately, except Novell OES...that was something new and interesting.

Most apps are "more of the same" too. Gnome 2.12 should fix that.

[N'Jal]

wtf was that all about?

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/gates.html

[arnieboy]

Fact is, most distros out there have been doing "more of the same" lately, except Novell OES...that was something new and interesting.

Most apps are "more of the same" too. Gnome 2.12 should fix that.
didn't see too many enhancements in the Gnome 2.12 pre-release notes.. just a few new features here and there..

[arnieboy]

wtf was that all about?

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/gates.html
sounded like real news eh? lol

[Ampersand]

Debian testing was quite interesting from what I remember. It had a few packages being updated every day, while still being reasonably stable (updated after being in unstable for a few weeks without breaking anything).

You've probably missed the most interesting bit of Breezy, since the features freeze is on the 11th and from what I understand it's mainly bug fixes after that.

[dcraven]

I suggest you take up scripting/programming with something like Python. There are excellent tutorials that will have you programming simple things in a few days all over the web. Once you start, you won't be able to stop! Automate this, script that... Next thing you know you'll be writing small PyQt/Gtk GUI's for small projects.. Then you are getting your hands dirty improving the software you love to use and contributing back the the community. You go at your own pace. Nobody pressures you at all. You make it as fun as you want to be. That's what free software is all about. Contributing to and steering a project in a direction you like by contributing code and working with others from around the globe with the same interests as you is a great feeling. You'll know what I'm talking about the very first time you have one of your patches accepted into a SVN/CVS tree.

You'll never be bored again.

~djc

[fragmental]

I don't get my kicks for trying to fix my or change my operating system. I mostly want my system to stay out of my way so I can get some real work done or play some good games. Ocassionally I want it to help me out, and by that I mean, for example, apt-get/synaptic helping me install programs with ease.

What I think is really boring is trying to fix little things that don't work the way I think they should. Right now, my SBLive is making popping noises and if I try to open an e-mail in in Firefox it opens Evolution instead of Thunderbird. My mounted fat partition does weird things where some directories don't even show up(and these are the files that hold some of my e-mail) and every file is set executable when I only wanted the executables to be executable. I have a reiser partition which won't let me into the directories I want to get into.

In general, I don't think there's good enough game support in Ubuntu(and many other linux). There's no method for installing commerical software(gentoo's portage does). Most have their own installer but it would still be nice to be able to install it so that it follows the pattern every other software is installed with. There are a lot of games packages that are outdated or don't exist in repositories(that I know of). There's too much micro management and stupid broken stuff. Like sound in general.

I would actually stay in windows because of most of these problems, but it's even worse. It crashes and reboots often when I try to watch movies. The install system is rather unorganized and the interface can't very easily be customized in case you know a way to do something that's faster. Also, there's the ever looming threat of viruses and other malicious software which requires constant virus scanning and program blocking and general paranoia.

That is the kind of crap that's boring and tedious. Give me a stable operating system with no bugs and good games and sound support and I will be happy.

[poofyhairguy]

That is the kind of crap that's boring and tedious. Give me a stable operating system with no bugs and good games and sound support and I will be happy.


Buy a Mac. If that is what you want, buy the tool for the job. You didn't say "it has to be free" (because then you know you are asking for too much).

[newbie2]

sounded like real news eh? lol

this is not news...but real :razz: -->

"A third key?!
But according to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's top crypto programmers were astonished to learn that the version of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by outsiders."
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/5263/1.html

"The European Parliament reports have sparked Continent-wide anger. Questions
have been raised by officials in Denmark, Germany, Norway, and Holland,
while the Swedish government has launched an investigation into whether
Swedish companies have been victims of covert NSA surveillance.
In Italy, a Rome deputy district attorney has opened an inquiry to determine
whether NSA activities violate Italian privacy law.
More important, perhaps, the reports encouraged France and Germany to lift
their restrictions on the use and sale of strong encryption software, which
Washington has been trying to limit."
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/p...ber/005968.html

"Germany's Bundiswehr is banning Microsoft software (and presumably other major American software packages) from use in critical environments due to concern over "back doors" suspected to have been placed for the use of U.S. spy agencies, particularly the NSA (National Security Agency).
China, last year, declared Linux, particularly the home grown Red Flag Linux, the official operating system for Chinese government and commerce due to similar security fears."
http://www.aaxnet.com/news/M010318.html

[fragmental]

Buy a Mac. If that is what you want, buy the tool for the job. You didn't say "it has to be free" (because then you know you are asking for too much).

Did I mention games?

Besides, you think if I had the money for a Mac I would put up with my computer crashing every time I wanted to watch a movie in windows or my sound popping in Linux?

Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing.

I am highly anticipating Breezy though. I think Ubuntu's progress is exciting.

[dcraven]

Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing.


You're new here aren't you. You still have the Windows nerve.

~djc

[agger]

Did I mention games?

(...)

Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing.



Linux needs a greater market share before the game companies really start
to use it as a platform. Which is a shame, because universal adoptation of
free/open source game engines might be very beneficial to the games industry;
but it may still be coming.

As for the thing about console commands, I suspect it's all about culture;
I got used to the Unix/console command thing at college, and I've grown to
prefer it. Working with consoles and scripts can save you an awful lot of
mouse clicks!

It must be confessed, however, that many Linux distros expect you to
be able to perform a lot of low-level tweaking to get your hardware
(like sound, video, networl, printers ...) working properly.

But Hoary is already making this quite easy for most hardware, and I expect
Breezy to be even better.

As to the general thread and concept of "boringness": To me, Ubuntu is not
a toy for my entertainment, it's the operating system I work with (in my spare
time, but still ...). I don't want it to be fun, I want it to work.

And then, I want the applications I use and the content I enjoy to be interesting and fun - but that's another matter :-).

[jdodson]

<sarcasm>

Yeah Ubuntu is boring, check out all these boring features for Gnome 2.12: http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/

*Yawn*

Lookit this, they fixed sound problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioInfrastructure

*wait, someone wake me up again*

Hey look here, AudioCDBurning: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioCDBurning

*Watches the grass grow*

Whats that? Virtulization got ya in a headlock? Xen gotcha covered: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xen

*Comes back from playing solitare*

Sweet MONO LOVE? NO WAY? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono

*Eh, I love TEH C, what can I say*

Some USplash maybe?: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USplash

*naps*

Much, much, more as well my friends.... Oh so boring.

</sarcasm>

[poofyhairguy]

Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing.



Who said its a good thing? It good to some, bad to others. These traits come from the OS being FREE rather than "we prefer this way to OSX's."

[poofyhairguy]

You're new here aren't you. You still have the Windows nerve.

~djc


Lol. Totally copying that. Very true.

[Freeanator]

No matter how stable they make it..... I can break it :)
Never a dull moment.

I have done everything to break Ubuntu and still it's running! No other distro lasted longer than a few days, Ubuntu has four months and still going. Maybe time to upgrade to breezy! ;-)

[fragmental]

First of all, I think Ubuntu is the most exciting thing happening in Linux today. I mean, most of this stuff is something I wished I could do myself years ago. The best thing is that, ever 6 weeks there's an even better release! It's like Christmas twice a year.

I think I was in a very bad mood last time I posted. I was very sick of trying to fix things that I feel should be more elementary. I love Linux...but she's like a moody girlfriend...sometimes she can be a real...(is cursing aloud in these forums?)

I think linspire is also pretty exciting but words cannot describe how much I hate monthly fees.

And now...my rebuttal.



You're new here aren't you. You still have the Windows nerve.

~djc

I've been using Linux for years. I used Gentoo for the longest, and Gentoo and "Windows nerve" don't belong in the same sentence.

Before Gentoo it was slackware and before slackware it was some (disgustingly awful) redhat distro. I quit using linux for a year or more because I got sick of it and decided I had better things to do(mostly because I was sick of hand holding gentoo just to accidentally break something in an upgrade...but that was also pre 1.0). I think i tried out some other ditros during that time like debian and libranet and some more obscure ones like vector linux. I missed gentoo though, so I went back to it eventually and then got sick of it again. Maybe I lost my nerdiness or something, but I really don't want to have to "maintain" my operating system anymore. I mean, I can understand maintaining a server and keeping that running, but a desktop or workstation system is a pain to have to maintain when you just want to get some work done or play a game.

The thing that really bugged me though is that there wasn't any linux operating system that I would suggest to my 61 year old mother or my 62 year old father. There also wasn't any operating system I would suggest to my friends, really. I mean, if they got sick of it after a couple days, I wouldn't blame them.

That's changing, but I think it could have changed faster. It's hard for an incredibly intelligent programmer to know what would be easy to use for some metaphorical computer illiterate friend or grandma though. Why would a programmer want to try to conform to that that level of usability though?...and more importantly why would thousands of volunteer programmers want to?

I think one other possiblity is that a lot of people forget how much of a pain linux can be when it's working well or when they know exactly how to fix any problems. My memory is very poor, so depending on whether or not I hate linux or love it depends on which day it is because, I probably don't remember any of the days before it. My poor memory also makes it a lot more painful to remember and execute console commands. That's my biggest complaint with the console. I used to use blackbox and the console, straight up...no subsitutions, but sitting at the console like an idiot, trying to remember what the command is. The worst part is my poor working memory. Even if I know a command, I might not remember what I was about to type long enough to type it. Mouse commands have visual cues which make everything much easier. I want to be able to still navigate my operating system when I have alzheimers and can't remember my own name(that's an exageration...sort of).

Oh, another thing that bothers me is this "RTFM" mentality. it's good, and too many people just don't seem to know how to read...but with linux software, there isn't always a good manual. Google results also tend to suck. Sometimes forums goers are the best resort, but I think that's not a very good sollution. It can make it very difficult to trouble shoot.

However, in conclusion, as I said at first, I'm pretty happy with Ubuntu. Breezy is looking very nice, and if each release is continually improving at the rate it is right now, I might dump Windows entirely(well...maybe not because I just love games too much and I'm a pc gamer at heart. $700 for an xbox? I can build an awesome pc for that much).

That 61 year old mother I was talking about? I have Ubuntu on her computer. Her grandchildren love it because I put all sorts of kids games on it. The only issue I have now is that ocassionally, it will drop out of Gnome, back to the login. I have no idea why or how to fix it. All I know is that rebooting usually fixes it. I think I might just try some different nvidia drivers. It could be a resource conflict. Sound was broken before I turned off usb irq.

I still can't suggest it to everyone, only the people I really want to invest my own personal time helping with tech support. However, I've gotten to the point where I will hardly bother with fixing a windows install, I'll just format and restart. I dont' mind fixing or helping to fix linux though...at least not on my good days.

[poofyhairguy]

I still can't suggest it to everyone, only the people I really want to invest my own personal time helping with tech support. However, I've gotten to the point where I will hardly bother with fixing a windows install, I'll just format and restart. I dont' mind fixing or helping to fix linux though...at least not on my good days.

Thats the trick:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58862&highlight=convert

[NaOH]

a cobain avatar and an impossible-to-please attitude, now THATS interesting, bleh, stop complaining

[Jussi Kukkonen]

Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing.

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

It's long, but it does contain several very good reasons for the 'problem' you describe.

(Thanks to whoever it was on these forums who originally mentioned this link.)

[fragmental]

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

It's long, but it does contain several very good reasons for the 'problem' you describe.

(Thanks to whoever it was on these forums who originally mentioned this link.)

I think that point was already pointed out earlier, but it's a good article anyway.

I was never talking about Linux being like windows, I was talking about it being better than windows. Better that windows in a usability way. Like BeOS or Mac OSX where using the console is an option and not a necessity. At least, I think that's what I was talking about. I can't remember exactly.

Once again, I should mention that I believe Ubuntu has gone a long way at acheiving this. There is still a lot of work to be done though. Well, maybe not a whole lot. Most of my problems with ubuntu are fixed in the next release...besides the whole binary video driver issue. There are a few gnome functionality things that bug me but I could probably fix those if I wanted to figure out how.

My biggest complaint with Linux has pretty much always been that it takes too much time. Spin it however you want, Linux will take up a lot of your time. If all you want to do is play games or do word processing or surf the net or listen to music or some other task that should be relatively easy to at least get started, all that other time mucking about with the OS is wasted. Sure, someone could just use windows or just use Mac OS X or whatever, but why should someone be forced to resort to that when there are better alternatives?

This became most apparent to me when I practically lost my girlfriend because I decided to install Gentoo one day and didn't come out of my room for 2 days. I could have been doing many other, actually important, things - less stresfful and much more enjoyable things.

[escuchamezz]

Linux is not about being better than Windows, it's about trying to be better than windows.

[xequence]

I very much disagree... I do remember you were the one complaining about the backports or something a couple days ago.

When you are getting bored with ubuntu maybe try another distro and when it messes up you can have fun trying to uninstall it and getting ubuntu back ;)

[aysiu]

Spin it however you want, Linux will take up a lot of your time. If all you want to do is play games or do word processing or surf the net or listen to music or some other task that should be relatively easy to at least get started, all that other time mucking about with the OS is wasted. Sure, someone could just use windows or just use Mac OS X or whatever, but why should someone be forced to resort to that when there are better alternatives?

This became most apparent to me when I practically lost my girlfriend because I decided to install Gentoo one day and didn't come out of my room for 2 days. I could have been doing many other, actually important, things - less stresfful and much more enjoyable things. So, I see you had to install Windows or install Mac when you bought your computer. You didn't? Well, that's the difference. Gentoo will never come preloaded. Someone can go to the Dell website, find the hottest new computer and have it boot up and "just work" right away because Dell makes sure that the Windows XP installation "just works." Very few people are preloading desktops or notebooks with Linux (WalMart preloads Linspire on 128 MB RAM computers).


Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing. I don't have to learn console commands to use and maintain Ubuntu. I had to learn console commands to install and configure Ubuntu--big difference there. And what's so hard about console commands, anyway? Even if you don't know how to type, you can copy and paste from the Ubuntu Guide. And you're talking about Ubuntu, clearly, because other Linux distributions (Linspire and Mepis) do not require console commands.

Maybe you should ready Why I think the command-line is user-friendly... (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=59334).

[Hamman]

I think that point was already pointed out earlier, but it's a good article anyway.

I was never talking about Linux being like windows, I was talking about it being better than windows. Better that windows in a usability way. Like BeOS or Mac OSX where using the console is an option and not a necessity. At least, I think that's what I was talking about. I can't remember exactly.

Once again, I should mention that I believe Ubuntu has gone a long way at acheiving this. There is still a lot of work to be done though. Well, maybe not a whole lot. Most of my problems with ubuntu are fixed in the next release...besides the whole binary video driver issue. There are a few gnome functionality things that bug me but I could probably fix those if I wanted to figure out how.

My biggest complaint with Linux has pretty much always been that it takes too much time. Spin it however you want, Linux will take up a lot of your time. If all you want to do is play games or do word processing or surf the net or listen to music or some other task that should be relatively easy to at least get started, all that other time mucking about with the OS is wasted. Sure, someone could just use windows or just use Mac OS X or whatever, but why should someone be forced to resort to that when there are better alternatives?

This became most apparent to me when I practically lost my girlfriend because I decided to install Gentoo one day and didn't come out of my room for 2 days. I could have been doing many other, actually important, things - less stresfful and much more enjoyable things.
I agree with you. The command line is very good for many tasks, and some things could not be reproduced with a GUI. But normal users don't want to something the "best" or most efficent way: they want to do it as easy as possible. I think that many issues have been solved. For example, installing programs can be done with a very nice GUI (synaptic) and Gnome has quite a bit of GUI configuration tools. But some problems still exist, like installing new drivers requiring you to edit xorg.conf manually. I also think part of the problem lies in the community.
Many of us "power users" think it's easier to typ sudo apt-get install <program> than opening synaptic. Ubuntuguide for example tells newbies to do this. A guy on a forum actully stated that he didn't use Linux as such a simple thing as installing codecs required him to open a terminal in Ubuntu. Actually he doesn't, he could have installed them with synaptic instead.
But since Ubuntu is constantly developed I have no reason to doubt that these issues will be resolved!

[arnieboy]

Many of us "power users" think it's easier to typ sudo apt-get install <program> than opening synaptic. Ubuntuguide for example tells newbies to do this. A guy on a forum actully stated that he didn't use Linux as such a simple thing as installing codecs required him to open a terminal in Ubuntu. Actually he doesn't, he could have installed them with synaptic instead.
But since Ubuntu is constantly developed I have no reason to doubt that these issues will be resolved!
its not an issue believe me.. its more of something like an acquired taste.. it takes time and patience to acquire a taste for middle eastern or mughlai cuisine.. but pretty soon u realize that the rest of the world still hasnt learnt how to cook :) .. hope u get my point.

[Lord Illidan]

I find the command line pretty useful nowadays. But still, don't expect me to give Ubuntu to a friend of mine, or my sister, or my grandfather, and leave it at that, when Windows is so easy to configure. And let's face it, editing the Xorg.conf may be faster than opening the Control Panel and setting the driver from there, but in the end, it is harder for an average Windows user.

If Linux is ever going to be ready for the desktop, it has to solve this archaic terminal issue. The terminal offers power, and I agree that it should remain there. But basic needs should be catered for with a simple GUI.

For example, something which people do very often: Installing programs. Not via synaptic or apt-get but by compiling them. Sure, it is faster to open a terminal and type
./configure; sudo make; sudo make install , but if no one tells you that, how will you do it? Answer : Google, but even then, some user will complain that in Windows it wasn't like that. They like it to be completely transparent.

Or the fstab. It is one of the reasons why Linux is getting on my nerves. Having to modify the fstab manually to mount an NTFS or FAT32 partition in Ubuntu is not good, especially when in Suse, it is done automatically. I hear that in Breezy, things will improve. Good.

[endy]

Just a heads up but the "configure; make; make install" is being solved by Bulldozer (http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/bulldozer/).

I do agree that for the majority of people we need to be able to configure Linux for general desktop use without ever using the command line.

[arnieboy]

Or the fstab. It is one of the reasons why Linux is getting on my nerves. Having to modify the fstab manually to mount an NTFS or FAT32 partition in Ubuntu is not good, especially when in Suse, it is done automatically. I hear that in Breezy, things will improve. Good.
u can try Grime for this one.

[fragmental]

I very much disagree... I do remember you were the one complaining about the backports or something a couple days ago.

When you are getting bored with ubuntu maybe try another distro and when it messes up you can have fun trying to uninstall it and getting ubuntu back ;)

You should make a reference to whoever you're talking about when you says "you". If you're talking about me, then you're wrong, but regardless you can't say "you" in a crowd and expect anyone to know who you're talking too.


So, I see you had to install Windows or install Mac when you bought your computer. You didn't? Well, that's the difference. Gentoo will never come preloaded. Someone can go to the Dell website, find the hottest new computer and have it boot up and "just work" right away because Dell makes sure that the Windows XP installation "just works." Very few people are preloading desktops or notebooks with Linux (WalMart preloads Linspire on 128 MB RAM computers).

I don't have to learn console commands to use and maintain Ubuntu. I had to learn console commands to install and configure Ubuntu--big difference there. And what's so hard about console commands, anyway? Even if you don't know how to type, you can copy and paste from the Ubuntu Guide. And you're talking about Ubuntu, clearly, because other Linux distributions (Linspire and Mepis) do not require console commands.

Maybe you should ready Why I think the command-line is user-friendly... (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=59334).

You shouldn't assume so much about anyone. I've never bought a computer with windows preloaded in my life and I've never bought a mac because I've never had that kind of money.

Console is more user friendly if you already understand a lot about using the console, and only then. Gui interfaces are the only one that someone who's never seen the interface before and doesn't have any manual can start to understand immediately. I'm not saying that all distros force you to use the console anymore either. I'm just saying the mentality that everyone under the sun should know how to use it is not right.

On a different but related note, there needs to be a good 5.1 audio gui. Adding 5.1 audio requires adding and configuring an asoundrc configuration file and I have no idea how to do the positional audio. As far as I know there is no such thing.

[xequence]

You should make a reference to whoever you're talking about when you says "you". If you're talking about me, then you're wrong, but regardless you can't say "you" in a crowd and expect anyone to know who you're talking too.

I was talking to the poster of this board ;)

[arnieboy]

I was talking to the poster of this board ;)
yeah yeah.. the kids bash me on chat and then come to me for help later. thats how it goes! :-x

[xequence]

yeah yeah.. the kids bash me on chat and then come to me for help later. thats how it goes! :-x

I didnt bash you, I just said I think I remember you complaining about the same thing a couple days ago ;)


Ubuntu is becoming a bit boring these days.. updates from backports are slow to come..

And yes, I needed help :) I often do.

[arnieboy]

I didnt bash you, I just said I think I remember you complaining about the same thing a couple days ago ;
yes I did raise that issue and unfortunately it sounded like a complaint and an attack on the backports teams neither of which it was.
Anyway, whatever I said was true and except for one of the moderators and one his cronies who got excited, almost everyone agreed that its a real issue. whatthe heck. Those days are gone. I keep my ubuntu manually updated these days. I have even removed the backports repos from my apt-get conf.

[zenwhen]

Boring is good. Your system works. Don't curse it.

[arnieboy]

Boring is good. Your system works. Don't curse it.
chill! period.

[zenwhen]

chill! period.


Niiiiiice.

[poofyhairguy]

yes I did raise that issue and unfortunately it sounded like a complaint and an attack on the backports teams neither of which it was.
Anyway, whatever I said was true and except for one of the moderators and one his cronies who got excited, almost everyone agreed that its a real issue. whatthe heck. Those days are gone. I keep my ubuntu manually updated these days. I have even removed the backports repos from my apt-get conf.

Awesome. I have cronies. And Breezy....that makes life less boring.

[poofyhairguy]

Sure, someone could just use windows or just use Mac OS X or whatever, but why should someone be forced to resort to that when there are better alternatives?


Because they care about what is the quickest and easiest, not what is the best. Very few times in life are they the same thing (usually that only happens when there is only one option).

If they don't want to mess with Linux, let them buy a computer with Linux on it. It will NEVER be easier to install and configure and OS than just use one that was installed and configured by someone else.

[poofyhairguy]

For example, something which people do very often: Installing programs. Not via synaptic or apt-get but by compiling them.

Almost all of the Windows and OSX world does not compile programs. Much of the linux world doesn't either (I dislike it a lot). So....I don't see how this is a problem.

[aysiu]

If Linux is ever going to be ready for the desktop, it has to solve this archaic terminal issue. The terminal offers power, and I agree that it should remain there. But basic needs should be catered for with a simple GUI. Mepis and Linspire do not require it.

[aysiu]

You shouldn't assume so much about anyone. I've never bought a computer with windows preloaded in my life and I've never bought a mac because I've never had that kind of money. Maybe you haven't, but you're not the reason Windows has taken off. Most normal users, who can't wait for a Gentoo "emerge" do buy computers with Windows preloaded. That's the whole point--those are the people who are afraid of the command-line, and if they are, they shouldn't be installing Ubuntu. If they should be installing an OS at all, they should install Mepis or Linspire or learn to love the command-line... or have someone else install Ubuntu for them.



Console is more user friendly if you already understand a lot about using the console, and only then. Did you even read the thread I linked to? Consoles are actually easier if you don't understand a lot because you can just copy and paste instructions. GUI you have to know a lot more about what you're doing.



I'm not saying that all distros force you to use the console anymore either. I'm just saying the mentality that everyone under the sun should know how to use it is not right. No, what you said was
Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing. You don't have to learn console commands to use and maintain Linux or even Ubuntu. You have to learn console commands to install and configure Ubuntu, but you don't need them to install or configure Linspire or Mepis. So your statement about Linux is wrong.

[fragmental]

Maybe you haven't, but you're not the reason Windows has taken off. Most normal users, who can't wait for a Gentoo "emerge" do buy computers with Windows preloaded. That's the whole point--those are the people who are afraid of the command-line, and if they are, they shouldn't be installing Ubuntu. If they should be installing an OS at all, they should install Mepis or Linspire or learn to love the command-line... or have someone else install Ubuntu for them.


Shouldn't be installing Ubuntu? I guess I must have misinterpreted "linux for everyone". Besides, I'm mostly not talking about Ubuntu. Ubuntu is doing a good job. It's getting there, but Ubuntu is relatively new. Notice I said, "years ago".

What do you mean can't wait for a gentoo emerge? Maybe some people just like to make ebuilds? I would expect more gentoo users to build their own computers than buying them with windows pre-installed anyway. Ok, in general, I do not understand that comment.


Did you even read the thread I linked to? Consoles are actually easier if you don't understand a lot because you can just copy and paste instructions. GUI you have to know a lot more about what you're doing.

I skimmed it. Copying and pasting instructions relies on having those instructions to copy and paste. Sometimes people are lucky enough that someone wants to maintain a wiki or a guide, but not always. Sometimes the wiki and the guide aren't enough, and sometimes commands just don't work the way they should. Copying and pasting can be more length than a couple mouse clicks as well.


BTW, I'm not sure how you understood it, but I was under the impression that,
"I'm not saying that all distros force you to use the console anymore either. I'm just saying the mentality that everyone under the sun should know how to use it is not right."

"Linux could have been better than Mac OSX years ago but people seem to have the false idea that being forced to learn console commands and read lengthy manuals and search for answers to obscure problems in order to simply use and maintain an operating system is somehow a good thing."

are similar, if not somewhat synonymous, comments. At the least, they do not contradict. Also, I know that at least I, personally, never touched the console while installing ubuntu but only touched it afterwards, in order to fix things(like sound...I know it's fixed in Breezy. that's not my point)

Once again, take note of the phrase "years ago". Mepis and Linspire are also fairly new.

[aysiu]

Shouldn't be installing Ubuntu? I guess I must have misinterpreted "linux for everyone". Who said it was Linux for everyone? No Linux is for everyone. No OS is for everyone--not even Windows or Mac. Ubuntu is "Linux for human beings." Sometimes people twist that to mean, "I can hand this CD to anyone who is scientifically homo sapien, and they won't have to know anything about computers and can use it."



Besides, I'm mostly not talking about Ubuntu. Ubuntu is doing a good job. It's getting there, but Ubuntu is relatively new. Notice I said, "years ago". You said Linux didn't overtake OS X or Windows years ago because... But you didn't give the impression that you were saying, "But everything's easy now. That was all in the past."



What do you mean can't wait for a gentoo emerge? Maybe some people just like to make ebuilds? I would expect more gentoo users to build their own computers than buying them with windows pre-installed anyway. Ok, in general, I do not understand that comment. I was referring to your earlier remark:
This became most apparent to me when I practically lost my girlfriend because I decided to install Gentoo one day and didn't come out of my room for 2 days. I could have been doing many other, actually important, things - less stresfful and much more enjoyable things.



I skimmed it. Copying and pasting instructions relies on having those instructions to copy and paste. Sometimes people are lucky enough that someone wants to maintain a wiki or a guide, but not always. Sometimes the wiki and the guide aren't enough, and sometimes commands just don't work the way they should. Copying and pasting can be more length than a couple mouse clicks as well. The Ubuntu Guide is just about as comprehensive as you can get. And I don't know any mouse clicks that are faster than copying and pasting if you don't know what you're doing.

[fragmental]

Who said it was Linux for everyone? No Linux is for everyone. No OS is for everyone--not even Windows or Mac. Ubuntu is "Linux for human beings." Sometimes people twist that to mean, "I can hand this CD to anyone who is scientifically homo sapien, and they won't have to know anything about computers and can use it."

You said Linux didn't overtake OS X or Windows years ago because... But you didn't give the impression that you were saying, "But everything's easy now. That was all in the past."

I was referring to your earlier remark:

The Ubuntu Guide is just about as comprehensive as you can get. And I don't know any mouse clicks that are faster than copying and pasting if you don't know what you're doing.
I was under the impression that Linux for human beings pretty much meant linux for everyone because...well, you know...everyone using computers are human.

The nature of graphical interfaces is that you can search them and find what you're looking for. You don't have to remember the syntax or the command, if you know where to find the button.

Because I love to quote myself:
"First of all, I think Ubuntu is the most exciting thing happening in Linux today. I mean, most of this stuff is something I wished I could do myself years ago. The best thing is that, ever 6 weeks there's an even better release! It's like Christmas twice a year.

I think I was in a very bad mood last time I posted. I was very sick of trying to fix things that I feel should be more elementary. I love Linux...but she's like a moody girlfriend...sometimes she can be a real...(is cursing aloud in these forums?)

I think linspire is also pretty exciting but words cannot describe how much I hate monthly fees."

The Ubuntu Guide is pretty comprehensive but it could have more and it could be better. What about 5.1 audio for example? Sure, that's just one example, but I don't feel like searching for anymore.

[arnieboy]

The Ubuntu Guide is pretty comprehensive but it could have more and it could be better. What about 5.1 audio for example? Sure, that's just one example, but I don't feel like searching for anymore.
Ubuntuguide never claimed itself to be all encompassing. Our untiring efforts are directed towards filling in the gaps. U might be tired but we are not. get a dvd with 5.1 sound, set up your 5.1 speakers from your PCI card outlets and try this:
To test, get a DVD with 5.1 sound and try :

sudo mplayer dvd://1 -v -aid 128 -ao oss -channels 6 2>&1|grep AC3:
Check to see that you have an output like:

AC3: 5.1 (3f+2r+lfe) 48000 Hz 448.0 kbit/s
if not try 129, 130... for -aid

[bored2k]

The Ubuntu Guide is pretty comprehensive but it could have more and it could be better. What about 5.1 audio for example? Sure, that's just one example, but I don't feel like searching for anymore.
You know the guide is an unofficial project right ? Wich means that no matter how good or how not so good it is, we should appreciate it because its creator is not on Canonical´s payroll. If you think its incomplete, get a hold of mr Chua Wen Kiat and contribute.

[fragmental]

You know the guide is an unofficial project right ? Wich means that no matter how good or how not so good it is, we should appreciate it because its creator is not on Canonical´s payroll. If you think its incomplete, get a hold of mr Chua Wen Kiat and contribute.

I'm not really complaining about the guide or the wiki or any one's volunteer efforts to make the world a better place. Really. I"m just saying that, if there were simple gui's for these things there would be less need for those sort of things. There would be less need for someone to run to google or a forum or a wiki or an unnoficial guide every time they wanted to fix something which, I think, should be very simple. Multichannel audio is just one example I can think of.

I think that the reason why there aren't any good positional audio guis for alsa and why other possibly simple tasks take a lot more effort - more importantly, a lot more time - is the mentality that everyone should learn to use the command line for every day tasks, or not use linux(I know about linspire and the others, that's not the point). It's kind of like kicking someone out of a club because they don't dress right. Some people would rather just play games or get real work done like word processing or 3d or 2d design or even programming instead of scouring documentation to find the right command or config script to copy and paste just to find out why something doesn't work and how to fix it.

BeOS is the best example, I know of, that made many tasks very simple to do through a gui. Copying and pasting something in a huge directory tree takes about two clicks and some short mouse movements which can be much faster than doing the same thing on a console. All the preferences were all unified in one simple menu as well. Ironically, BeOS does not have any sort of positional audio(as far as I know), but I think that's mostly a driver thing.

Coincidentally, setting up printers on Ubuntu was the easiest printer setup I can remember since using BeOS.

Yes, I should contribute more and complain less. I was just trying point out a mentality that I thought was damaging and not helping the linux world. People can learn to use the command line and change configuration scripts in their own good time, without it being forced upon them.

I think my original post was just more of a rant than anything. I've spent a lot of time trying to troubleshoot(and retroubleshoot, because I have a bad memory, and I don't remember things when I reinstall) things that I feel should have been more elementary, in Linux. Most of the time I find it stressful and annoying instead of fun and entertaining. I think that was my point. Granted, using Gentoo was kind of like masochism in that respect, but what I really wanted was easy access to a large repository of software so I could try things out and find out which is best and it won't take me forever to install everything.

So, I was saying that I think trying to make things work, that could possibly be very easy to get working, is boring. I wasn't blaming Canonical or volunteer efforts or anything. I didn't mean for it to go this far. I"m going to try to refrain from making any more rebuttals.

BTW - something more on topic - it would be nice to see some more software in Backports. There are a lot of good games that are not in there....like PlanetPenguin Racer and Nexuiz.

[aysiu]

I think that the reason why there aren't any good positional audio guis for alsa and why other possibly simple tasks take a lot more effort - more importantly, a lot more time - is the mentality that everyone should learn to use the command line for every day tasks, or not use linux(I know about linspire and the others, that's not the point). I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that's the case. I think what's really going on is that everyone thinks, "Hey, if we could have a GUI for [fill in the blank] in addition to the command-line, that'd be great, but until someone writes the program for that GUI, the command-line is a great thing." Why do I think that's the case? Just take a look at Breezy. All of the developments that I can see in it (I'm sure there are more I'm not noticing) are GUI frontends for things that were previously CLI.

SMEG comes preinstalled. There's a graphical bootsplash instead of just scrolling text. You can configure /boot/grub/menu.lst with some checkboxes and buttons.

People are developing these things. Nobody's saying, "This is the way Linux is. You just have to deal with it because it's never going to change." I think whatever we can make both CLI and GUI (more options, more power) is great, but someone has to be willing to put in the work to make that GUI. It's happening, and it's happening slowly, but it's happening.

In the meantime, the CLI is perfectly fine.

And, honestly, even though I prefer Gnome for daily use, if people love doing things GUI-style, KDE beats Gnome hands-down for GUI configuring (automounting partitions, turning on numlock, editing the KMenu, etc.).

[arnieboy]

Multichannel audio is just one example I can think of.

I think that the reason why there aren't any good positional audio guis for alsa and why other possibly simple tasks take a lot more effort - more importantly, a lot more time - is the mentality that everyone should learn to use the command line for every day tasks, or not use linux(I know about linspire and the others, that's not the point). It's kind of like kicking someone out of a club because they don't dress right. Some people would rather just play games or get real work done like word processing or 3d or 2d design or even programming instead of scouring documentation to find the right command or config script to copy and paste just to find out why something doesn't work and how to fix it.
this guy needs to chill... use gamix dude. its a great gtk based mixer for alsa!!!

[arnieboy]

And, honestly, even though I prefer Gnome for daily use, if people love doing things GUI-style, KDE beats Gnome hands-down for GUI configuring (automounting partitions, turning on numlock, editing the KMenu, etc.).
Honestly, the only reason I dont use KDE is the eyesore called qt. Otherwise, i do agree that its more of a real desktop environment than gnome. Gnome has matured only recently. Even 2 years back it was a bagful of bugs.

[fragmental]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that's the case. I think what's really going on is that everyone thinks, "Hey, if we could have a GUI for [fill in the blank] in addition to the command-line, that'd be great, but until someone writes the program for that GUI, the command-line is a great thing." Why do I think that's the case? Just take a look at Breezy. All of the developments that I can see in it (I'm sure there are more I'm not noticing) are GUI frontends for things that were previously CLI.

SMEG comes preinstalled. There's a graphical bootsplash instead of just scrolling text. You can configure /boot/grub/menu.lst with some checkboxes and buttons.

People are developing these things. Nobody's saying, "This is the way Linux is. You just have to deal with it because it's never going to change." I think whatever we can make both CLI and GUI (more options, more power) is great, but someone has to be willing to put in the work to make that GUI. It's happening, and it's happening slowly, but it's happening.

In the meantime, the CLI is perfectly fine.

And, honestly, even though I prefer Gnome for daily use, if people love doing things GUI-style, KDE beats Gnome hands-down for GUI configuring (automounting partitions, turning on numlock, editing the KMenu, etc.).


Ubuntu is great.

I hate it when people talk about the "Windows way" and the "Linux way". There is a best way, and it might be neither or a balance in between.

A lot of people always talk about linux "almost being there" and have been doing so for a very long time. I think that it wouldn't have taken something like Ubuntu to get there. The Mepis guy did a lot of these things by himself. Really, it might just generally have to do with Linux coming from Unix, where everything is a file and everything started out as command line, with lots of scripting. What was best 20 years ago is not necessarily best today though.

I'd love to create a gui for multichannel and positional audio but I wouldn't know where to start. I haven't done a lot of programming either. Commercial OSS probably has one already, but I would rather use alsa.

It would also be nice to have a good explanation of all the mixer settings for the emu10k1 alsa drivers. There are like 100 of them.

[fragmental]

Ubuntuguide never claimed itself to be all encompassing. Our untiring efforts are directed towards filling in the gaps. U might be tired but we are not. get a dvd with 5.1 sound, set up your 5.1 speakers from your PCI card outlets and try this:
To test, get a DVD with 5.1 sound and try :

sudo mplayer dvd://1 -v -aid 128 -ao oss -channels 6 2>&1|grep AC3:
Check to see that you have an output like:

if not try 129, 130... for -aid

I thought 5.1 audio was a mixer setting, and so I tried to come to grips with the 100 mixer setttings for the emu10k1 alsa driver but I could never get 5.1 to work.

Eventually I e-mailed a guy and he told me that I probably want an asoundrc file so I looked up that instead and found a forum topic about it.

So now I have an asoundrc file in /etc/ that looks like this:

pcm.!default {
type plug
#slave.pcm "sound51"
slave.pcm "dmix"
}

pcm.dmixs51 {
type dmix
ipc_key 1024
slave {
pcm "hw:0,1"
rate 48000
channels 6
period_time 0
period_size 1024
buffer_time 0
buffer_size 4096
}
}

pcm.s51 {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmixs51"
}

pcm.dsp0 {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmixs51"
}

pcm.sound51 {
type route
slave.pcm s51
slave.channels 6
ttable.0.0 1
ttable.1.1 1
ttable.0.2 1
ttable.1.3 1
ttable.0.4 0.5
ttable.1.4 0.5
ttable.0.5 0.5
ttable.1.5 0.5
}

I can't imagine it would be too difficult to make a gui that creates and edits an asoundrc to produce the desired effect.

I have this output, btw:
AC3: 5.1 (3f+2r+lfe) 48000 Hz 448.0 kbit/s

Thanks for the tip. Does that mean ac3 output is correct? I've never been totally sure if it is.

Also, is gamix really any better than gnome volume control? I think I've used gamix before, and I don't think it deals with multichannel or positional audio.

[poofyhairguy]

I think that the reason why there aren't any good positional audio guis for alsa and why other possibly simple tasks take a lot more effort - more importantly, a lot more time - is the mentality that everyone should learn to use the command line for every day tasks,

I promise its not the case. The reason is because making a good GUI is hard, and requires completely different skills than coding the CLI program under the GUI.

At Redmond, the program developer would just email the GUI developer the work and then it would be done. In the Gnu world, a CLI tool is made and the developer can only hope that someone will make a GUI tool for it because he/she doesn't know how.

I know that some people in Linuxland are really pro CLI ,there is a reason for that. But its not the reason we lack GUIs. Its simply a lack of resources.

[bored2k]

I promise its not the case. The reason is because making a good GUI is hard, and requires completely different skills than coding the CLI program under the GUI.

At Redmond, the program developer would just email the GUI developer the work and then it would be done. In the Gnu world, a CLI tool is made and the developer can only hope that someone will make a GUI tool for it because he/she doesn't know how.

I know that some people in Linuxland are really pro CLI ,there is a reason for that. But its not the reason we lack GUIs. Its simply a lack of resources.
I could not agree more. Man power and will don't always blend in "Linuxland".

[fragmental]

I promise its not the case. The reason is because making a good GUI is hard, and requires completely different skills than coding the CLI program under the GUI.

At Redmond, the program developer would just email the GUI developer the work and then it would be done. In the Gnu world, a CLI tool is made and the developer can only hope that someone will make a GUI tool for it because he/she doesn't know how.

I know that some people in Linuxland are really pro CLI ,there is a reason for that. But its not the reason we lack GUIs. Its simply a lack of resources.

You're probably right. After really thinking about it, I am probably underestimating how difficult it is. I think I just assumed that someone who know how to code wouldn't have any difficult making a gui. At least not with all the tool kits out there like tcl/tk and gtk and qt and fltk. Though that's probably misunderstanding what a tool kit is, I think I also assumed that the other open source libraries and guis would make it easier...which probably isn't the case either...at least not always.

My coding experience is basic coding, where all the graphical stuff I did was ascii, c++ where I never programmed anything worth showing anybody, and visual basic which was forced upon me. With that narrow range of programming experience, I probably really don't understand what it takes to make a good gui application.

If I had any sort of discipline, I'd start learning, like I always meant to do, but alas...I have about zero. Attention Deficit Disorder really sucks.

[poofyhairguy]

You're probably right. After really thinking about it, I am probably underestimating how difficult it is. I think I just assumed that someone who know how to code wouldn't have any difficult making a gui.

Well, for them its not easier than making a CLI program. Plus, to make a visual tool takes a different skill set. You need a designer more than a coder.


Thats why Apple has all those designers on the payroll....to make good GUIs. Ubuntu has people hired to do that (Breezy has many new GUIs) but it lacks the funding to fix the problem immediately.

Plus some people want different GUIs before they will say "its good enough." I want a Xorg.conf GUI and an easy way to configure a dual head setup. You want and audio tool. Another person wants a software install tool (easier than synaptic). Etc. Its hard to please everyone. What seems like an obvious ommision to you and me might not be a common need.

[earobinson]

arnieboy, I understand how you feal, some days i feal that ubuntu is getting a bit boring and i would love all of the google tools on my computer.

I dont feal that linux has done anything wrong. look a ubuntu a new release every 6 months? look a windows how long was it beteen xp and vista?

Gaim realy dose need a kick in the ass IMHO, i would love the voice over ip to be in in (not for msn or yahoo cuz they are close sorce) but at least for google talk.

What linux really needs if for a load of new developers to get intrested in it. and i think this will happen but it takes time.

Im getting a bit tiard of the same old, and i have updated to breezy. but ubuntu is still the best out there, they are all geting a bit old, gentoo, fedora, windows.

When was the last time anything really cool happened in the computer world I ask you?

[KingBahamut]

Hmmmm...Arnie your wrong on about n to the infinity power of levels.

[arnieboy]

Hmmmm...Arnie your wrong on about n to the infinity power of levels.
interesting how these dead threads wake up from nowhere.. I guess they come up on random google searches. well glory be to Arnie and his opinions anyway...

[KingBahamut]

Thats rather cynical, dont you think Arnie?

[fragmental]

arnieboy, I understand how you feal, some days i feal that ubuntu is getting a bit boring and i would love all of the google tools on my computer.

I dont feal that linux has done anything wrong. look a ubuntu a new release every 6 months? look a windows how long was it beteen xp and vista?

Gaim realy dose need a kick in the ass IMHO, i would love the voice over ip to be in in (not for msn or yahoo cuz they are close sorce) but at least for google talk.

What linux really needs if for a load of new developers to get intrested in it. and i think this will happen but it takes time.

Im getting a bit tiard of the same old, and i have updated to breezy. but ubuntu is still the best out there, they are all geting a bit old, gentoo, fedora, windows.

When was the last time anything really cool happened in the computer world i ask you?

What about phonegaim (http://www.phonegaim.com/)

Btw, it's "feel" and "tired". I hope for everyone's sake your native language isn't english.

Maybe someone should close this thread so it can rest in peace.