Is Ubuntu Too Popular?

[aaaantoine]

Consider the following editorial:

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070910#feature


But is the fact that Ubuntu has the "loudest fanboys" (or let's just say "loudest fans", since the word "fanboy" carries a negative connotation) necessarily a good thing? If each of the major computer manufacturers conducts a Linux distro poll and Ubuntu wins every one of them, will this give us much choice? Sure, we'll be able to choose between Windows and Ubuntu (as opposed to having no choice at all), but wouldn't it be nicer if we could choose between Windows, Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE and Mandriva? Since computer manufacturers are naturally reluctant to support several Linux distributions and since it's impossible to stop all the Ubuntu fans from promoting their favourite distro in online polls, what can be done to ensure a greater choice of Linux operating systems?


I would like to read thoughts from more seasoned Linux users.

[Steveway]

If that PC comes with Ubuntu preinstalled then it should work with any other actual distro.
So just buy the Ubupc and slap on your Distro of Choice, No MS-Tax and Linux-support.

[Sporkman]

Consider the following editorial:

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070910#feature



I would like to read thoughts from more seasoned Linux users.

I think a single Linux forerunner is a good thing, that'll gain linux mindshare & acceptance from mainstream users. Then, if a user gets curious about the linux concept & wants to learn more, she can get into the whole choice-of-distros mindset.

[karellen]

popularity is a good thing. (consistent) market share is a much better thing...So I'm looking forward for the second

[igknighted]

In my experience, Ubuntu is not clearly a superior product to other linux distros (at any level, newbs to veterans). Don't get me wrong, it is a great distribution, there is nothing wrong with it at all. But there is nothing about it that says to me that it should be better than others. In this regard, I am very concerned that Ubuntu could become too powerful. There is a lot of great stuff going on with other distros that Ubuntu users never get to experience.

The issue is not that one distro is dominant. If there was a distro that was far and away the best distro out there by most obvective measures, then I would fully support it being the flagship of linux and pre-installed on most computers. But this is not the case. It is a good choice, but just another choice none the less. The reason Ubuntu is so popular is not because of the merits it has as a project, but rather the viral marketing of it that goes on at sites like Digg. People get flooded with Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that, and eventually you end up with a Ubuntu == linux situation. I can hardly blame someone for supporting the distro that they love, but I think that we need some alternative voices, because other distros have their own great things to offer and we shouldn't ignore them at all.

[fuscia]

ubuntu has taken a 'london calling to rock the casbah' style plummet since the average joe started using it.

[karellen]

the best thing that could happen to a divided-full-of-distro-forking linux community is that a distro (Ubuntu in this case) to take the lead and become a viable alternative - for companies like Dell and Lenovo and no only - to Windows. it's a basic fact in my opinion: Linux needs market share. without it linux will remain forever a hobby-os

[Sporkman]

the best thing that could happen to a divided-full-of-distro-forking linux community is that a distro (Ubuntu in this case) to take the lead and become a viable alternative - for companies like Dell and Lenovo and no only - to Windows. it's a basic fact in my opinion: Linux needs market share. without it linux will remain forever a hobby-os

Agreed.

[Nano Geek]

ubuntu has taken a 'london calling to rock the casbah' style plummet since the average joe started using it.Could you explain?

[igknighted]

the best thing that could happen to a divided-full-of-distro-forking linux community is that a distro (Ubuntu in this case) to take the lead and become a viable alternative - for companies like Dell and Lenovo and no only - to Windows. it's a basic fact in my opinion: Linux needs market share. without it linux will remain forever a hobby-os

But why Ubuntu? What makes Ubuntu a better choice than Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian or Mandriva? Aside from you hear the name all over the internet. The distro itself, while very good, is just not "better" by any tangible measure than any other major distro. So by ignoring other equally good choices because of some "flavour of the week" popular poll is doing a major disservice to the linux community as a whole.

[zero244]

I disagree: I think Ubuntu is gaining popularity because of the support of this forum. Plus the fact that it has a excellent install routine. You can download the iso or order a production cd very easily. And the developers are continuing to improve the product.
If another distro offered more or better people would gravitate to that distro. Many of us have tried many different distros. The reason I settled on Ubuntu is for the reasons stated above.
I didn't even know what Ubuntu was 10 months ago. I tried it, it worked and its still working.
Eventually one distro has to be the favorite.
By one being the most used, consistency will develop much like Windows.
Right now there are millions of people who you couldn't give Vista too.
People will naturally gravitate to the product that works best for them regardless of marketing.
I appreciate all the work people contribute for all the different distros. They should be commended for there time and efforts.
If Ubuntu starts having major problems people will start looking elsewhere for something that has less problems.
Which is the reason I started using Linux. I realized Vista was a big pile of junk and it wasn't going get any better with the next release.
Most people want stability, flexibility and the fewest problems possible. Lets face we are all trying to avoid problems, plus we want a useful fun OS to work with.
The bottom line is Ubuntu is a pretty good piece of work. I like it.
Just my two cents.

[bruce89]

ubuntu has taken a 'london calling to rock the casbah' style plummet since the average joe started using it.

Mabye an intelligence test should be taken prior to allowing downloads?

[igknighted]

Could you explain?

Remember how good the help you got here was, even as recently as a year ago? So many of the knowledgeable, "geeky" members have moved on (because of the flood of new users and canonical focusing on making the distro work for them) that the only questions that get properly answered are ones like "fix my nvidia drivers". The distro itself is still good. At least thats how I see it, I cannot speak for Fuscia.

[z0mbie]

The way that I see it is if one Linux distro gets accepted and supported by manufacturers the rest of Linux community is in and benefits. With Chuck Norris on our side Ubuntu is round house kicking and opening doors for the Linux community as a whole. I don't think any distros are hurt by Ubuntu's popularity and growth, are they?

[karellen]

But why Ubuntu? What makes Ubuntu a better choice than Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian or Mandriva? Aside from you hear the name all over the internet. The distro itself, while very good, is just not "better" by any tangible measure than any other major distro. So by ignoring other equally good choices because of some "flavour of the week" popular poll is doing a major disservice to the linux community as a whole.

1. the community
2. the marketing/PR (especially free shipit - that was a brilliant move)
3. canonical & mark shuttleworth
4. in really doesn't matter which distro dominates the linux world as long as it's stable (ubuntu is), it is backed by a corporation (canonical) not by some enthusiast guy and has some predictive development road ahead.
and do you think that by maintaining "islands" of users, everyone pushing forward their favorite distro would be better for the linux community? as a whole? it seems to me that we encounter a serious problem here: some linux folks want the linux world to remain divided and somehow marginalized, left alone in a corner of the computer world, all in the name of "choice". for me that is not choice, that's anarchy...
I hope it's just me

[igknighted]

I disagree: I think Ubuntu is gaining popularity because of the support of this forum. Plus the fact that it has a excellent install routine. You can download the iso or order a production cd very easily. And the developers are continuing to improve the product.

The bottom line is that this statement could apply to any major distro. Compared to others, the Ubiquity installer is (a) very inflexible and (b) isn't any easier to use. Almost every distro has a live CD to try it out. Almost every distro has a great help forum, many are better. A year ago, Ubuntuforums was amazing. Now, you can easily get the most basic support, but anything beyond that is a struggle. The developers of every distro work hard to provide a quality project, and most other distros are innovating more.

Is it possible that the fact that new users get more attention for their very basic questions makes Ubuntu that much better of a choice? If so, then it should be the last distro to come preloaded. If lenovo offered Mandriva and had the base install stuff taken care of (ie codecs and drivers, which one would expect from an OEM), then these questions wouldn't matter and you would find better support elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ubuntu is a fine distro. In many ways I am just playing devils advocate here, but I think these are very important points that most Ubuntu users don't even consider, and I think we have to.

[AndyCooll]

Well in a way it's a no-win situation. For ages the complaint from manufacturers is that Linux has too many distros and they can't support all of them. Then when one distro comes to the forefront (due to popularity, quality or whatever) you start getting threads like this one in LInux community and articles like the one it points too!

Ubuntu might not be the best but for whatever reason it is currently in the forefront of peoples minds and for the first time for ages manufacturers are actually lining up to get behind a distro and install it on their equipment. If I had a choice of Ubuntu or none, I'll take Ubuntu. If I use another distro I'd then install that in the knowledge that it's highly likely to work (or at least most things will) since all distros are similar under the bonnet.

:cool:

[karellen]

The way that I see it is if one Linux distro gets accepted and supported by manufacturers the rest of Linux community is in and benefits. With Chuck Norris on our side Ubuntu is round house kicking and opening doors for the Linux community as a whole. I don't think any distros are hurt by Ubuntu's popularity and growth, are they?

nobody can match chuck norris, we all know that, don't we?
:)

[karellen]

The bottom line is that this statement could apply to any major distro. Compared to others, the Ubiquity installer is (a) very inflexible and (b) isn't any easier to use. Almost every distro has a live CD to try it out. Almost every distro has a great help forum, many are better. A year ago, Ubuntuforums was amazing. Now, you can easily get the most basic support, but anything beyond that is a struggle. The developers of every distro work hard to provide a quality project, and most other distros are innovating more.

Is it possible that the fact that new users get more attention for their very basic questions makes Ubuntu that much better of a choice? If so, then it should be the last distro to come preloaded. If lenovo offered Mandriva and had the base install stuff taken care of (ie codecs and drivers, which one would expect from an OEM), then these questions wouldn't matter and you would find better support elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ubuntu is a fine distro. In many ways I am just playing devils advocate here, but I think these are very important points that most Ubuntu users don't even consider, and I think we have to.

about innovation....most regular users want stability and reliability, not the latest bleeding-edge version of package

[Sporkman]

...under the bonnet.

Whah?? Speak English, please!

;)

[igknighted]

1. the community
2. the marketing/PR (especially free shipit - that was a brilliant move)
3. canonical & mark shuttleworth
4. in really doesn't matter which distro dominates the linux world as long as it's stable (ubuntu is), it is backed by a corporation (canonical) not by some enthusiast guy and has some predictive development road ahead.
and do you think that by maintaining "islands" of users, everyone pushing forward their favorite distro would be better for the linux community? as a whole? it seems to me that we encounter a serious problem here: some linux folks want the linux world to remain divided and somehow marginalized, left alone in a corner of the computer world, all in the name of "choice". for me that is not choice, that's anarchy...
I hope it's just me

1) the community should be opened up to all users, we shouldn't form our community around ubuntu, but linux as a whole.

2) Shipit is a good move. How long the money is there to continue it remains to be seen. Plus waiting weeks or months for CDs isn't really an option for most. Plus, there are lots of organizations that distribute free CDs for a number of distros. So while its a good move, I don't think it puts Ubuntu beyond others.

3) Canonical needs to make money or else it will be irrelevant, and rather soon. I'd much rather have Sun, Novell or Red Hat behind my distro.

4) Yes, it does matter. It matters because other distro's need air time, it matters because we need to show people the many faces of linux, and it matters because hey, Ubuntu doesn't work for everyone. If they see this front that Ubuntu is the best, and it doesn't work, why try another linux? Maybe Suse or Mandriva would have been perfect for them. It introduces a bias about other distros, and even other software pieces (.deb is better than .rpm because Ubuntu uses it is commonly seen around here, same with Gnome over KDE and many others).

I think that Linux gains NOTHING by giving up itself to become popular. I think it is better at 5% of the marketshare, with users remaining closer to the end product then going to 20% and having corporations take over. Sure some driver support would be nice, but at a mere 2ish% right now we are doing damn well, so I see no need to sell out.

[starcraft.man]

I will be blunt.

There was IE6. There were other better projects. Then there was Firefox. Life became better (but not best) after. Other projects (like Opera) also saw benefit.

Ubuntu is the same, it has the same flaws and strengths. It is very much needed though because of the way the average person thinks. They most certainly do not think like Linux enthusiasts, they certainly don't want 30 choices. They just don't care that much.

This debate can go on forever, but what I've just stated is the way it is (and will be likely).

[igknighted]

about innovation....most regular users want stability and reliability, not the latest bleeding-edge version of package

Oh, and you are most users so you can speak for all of them? I think ubuntu just stole a printer dialog from Fedora that many are very high on. Also AIGLX came from Fedora. Millions of projects are from novell/Suse. What's from Ubuntu? Restricted Driver Manager? ick. These are all developments that are not about bleeding edge but making users experiences better.

Plus, most of the posts in abs. beginner talk are about beryl or CF, so I think there is a strong interest in getting these "bleeding edge apps".

[bruce89]

Whah?? Speak English, please!

;)

Bonnet is English for front bit of a car. Although, up here it can mean a type of hat.


Oh, and you are most users so you can speak for all of them? I think ubuntu just stole a printer dialog from Fedora that many are very high on. Also AIGLX came from Fedora. Millions of projects are from novell/Suse. What's from Ubuntu? Restricted Driver Manager? ick. These are all developments that are not about bleeding edge but making users experiences better.

Plus, most of the posts in abs. beginner talk are about beryl or CF, so I think there is a strong interest in getting these "bleeding edge apps".

Ubuntu can't be arsed doing anything themselves, and if they do, it'll be in Python.

Upstart is the only reasonably useful thing so far.

[Sporkman]

Bonnet is English for front bit of a car.


I know, I was just kidding around, in my usual obnoxiously American way. ;)

[EvilMarshmallow]

But why Ubuntu? What makes Ubuntu a better choice than Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian or Mandriva?

But why Windows? What makes Windows a better choice than MacOS or Linux? Yet people still flock to Windows.

The issue isn't that there are other good choices, it's that this one (for whatever reason) is breaking into our culture.

Windows is proof that people by software based on its popularity/compatibility rather than whether it's "better". What makes Ubuntu different from Windows in this regard is that all the other choices... Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian, Mandriva, etc. are COMPATIBLE with Ubuntu. The same can't be said about the Windows/NoWindows choice. So what if Ubuntu becomes the "flagship" distro? Let it be the thing that introduces people who wouldn't know anything about it otherwise to the Linux world. If they get in and like it, it won't take them long to become curious about the other distros and check them out. After all, I learned to drive in a 10-year-old Toyota. Still driving the same car. Doesn't mean I won't turn the key in a Ferrari, given the opportunity...

[bruce89]

I know, I was just kidding around, in my usual obnoxiously American way. ;)

See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=547686 in the Back Garden.

[fuscia]

Could you explain?

just a joke, really. it's only a problem if the focus turns to remaining popular instead of remaining good. i don't think that's happened to ubuntu.

[karellen]

I think that Linux gains NOTHING by giving up itself to become popular. I think it is better at 5% of the marketshare, with users remaining closer to the end product then going to 20% and having corporations take over. Sure some driver support would be nice
I hope you're kidding. driver support is not nice to have, but crucial. without it linux is doomed. because people will continue to buy hardware and will want that piece of hardware to work. say printer, webcam, tablet pc, scanner - it doesn't matter. if it won't work with linux, they won't use linux. and if they won't use linux...why keep bothering here on these forums and web? it's not an elitist club, it's not the philosophy department of oxford, it's just an os that struggles to get acceptance and notoriety for its own benefit. unless we'll get back in the 90's...

[Bungo Pony]

Windows is the default right now, just like VHS was when DVDs came around. Why did people flock to DVD? New features, smaller, better picture, no rewinding, advertising, and word-of-mouth. The users and customers voted in favor of the product, and that's a big deal. Microsoft currently pushes themselves into your face to get you to use their products, and there are LOTS of unhappy customers. Microsoft is currenly popular because they made themselves popular through business relations. Regardless of this, the customers and users will vote with their wallets. Sony is a good example of this.

Every satisfied Ubuntu user will tell others about how great it is. You're starting to see the backing from large computer companies because they know there are happy users out there. Happy users = $$$$. The more Linux (and Ubuntu) is accepted, the more large companies are going to support it. It's only a matter of time until game makers begin releasing games for Ubuntu.

The progress of Ubuntu and Linux has been positive. As long as the users are happy, the trend will continue.

[fuscia]

it's not an elitist club

i hope i'm right in thinking that's an element that appears to be losing ground.

[karellen]

Oh, and you are most users so you can speak for all of them? I think ubuntu just stole a printer dialog from Fedora that many are very high on. Also AIGLX came from Fedora. Millions of projects are from novell/Suse. What's from Ubuntu? Restricted Driver Manager? ick. These are all developments that are not about bleeding edge but making users experiences better.

Plus, most of the posts in abs. beginner talk are about beryl or CF, so I think there is a strong interest in getting these "bleeding edge apps".

make a poll on a popular site and see the result. and it's not called stealing. it's called open-source...you know....the license, the source-code....you can take it, modify it, recompile it, use it, promote it, make a new distro etc. as long as you provide it...;)
the beginners from the beginners thread are not the same people who'd buy a dell/lenovo laptop with ubuntu installed

[justin whitaker]

You bring up some good points.


The bottom line is that this statement could apply to any major distro. Compared to others, the Ubiquity installer is (a) very inflexible and (b) isn't any easier to use. Almost every distro has a live CD to try it out. Almost every distro has a great help forum, many are better. A year ago, Ubuntuforums was amazing. Now, you can easily get the most basic support, but anything beyond that is a struggle. The developers of every distro work hard to provide a quality project, and most other distros are innovating more.

True, but let's take the flip side of that. Everyone has a LiveCD, that is true. Some you can install more easily, some less. That really isn't the issue. Most LiveCDs try to take advantage of the fact that you have 2gb to play with if you are using squashfs, so they pack in all sorts of junk that people don't need. Ubuntu, and Kubuntu's version says "Here's what we think you need" and let's the user build on that. Again, not necessarily reinventing the wheel, but it's actually really nice.

I don't use the LiveCDs for installs, since I prefer the Alternate version, but for the sake of argument: as inflexible as you think Ubiquity is, try the polar opposite, the Gentoo Live installer once. There is such a thing as too much flexibility. For the new user anyway.

As far as the forums....true, you can go elsewhere and get more immediate depth of information...and that comes at a heavy price. Go to Mandriva's Club Forum, and you get lots of technical jargon, but not much actual help.

Slackware, well, users keep telling you to check the way out of date Slackbook, or jump into IRC, where you get told to read the Slackbook.

Gentoo is much the same, except it's "Read the Handbook", unless you have some really technical issue that someone can sink their teeth into/demonstrate their epic wang on.

True, most of the day in day out stuff here is easily covered by the Wiki, etc., but people are so nice and patient here...that's an important differentiator. Never underestimate the power of a polite community.

Is there an exodus of power users, or that some of the more technical issues that we all the rage a year ago are somehow solved by the Dev team? I notice that there are an awful lot of basic questions that could be answered by a little proactive use of the search box, but I see alot of the same people here that were here when I joined.


Is it possible that the fact that new users get more attention for their very basic questions makes Ubuntu that much better of a choice? If so, then it should be the last distro to come preloaded. If lenovo offered Mandriva and had the base install stuff taken care of (ie codecs and drivers, which one would expect from an OEM), then these questions wouldn't matter and you would find better support elsewhere.

Hmm, I don't know about that. The model that people seem to be following in these "supported" distributions, is to say "check the Ubuntu/Mandriva/Red Hat" forums. Maybe Lenovo is taking a different tact.

I really question whether Mandriva is a good choice for an OEM. I have a Silver Membership, and I use Ubuntu, since there is always some weird showstopper in the official Mandriva releases, and not much help in getting them fixed.


Don't get me wrong, I think Ubuntu is a fine distro. In many ways I am just playing devils advocate here, but I think these are very important points that most Ubuntu users don't even consider, and I think we have to.

You know, I consider myself a Distroholic, and I have this to report: all Linux distros are pretty much the same, when you get down to it, so you can pretty much get to the same place on any distribution.

That's why I keep coming back to Ubuntu. Or more specifically, Kubuntu (these days anyway). Other distros are nice for dalliances, or to see what else is being developed, but Ubuntu has the best mix of bleeding edge/conservative/innovation/polish.

The only other distro that comes close is openSUSE, and I just can't quite stomach using it now.

Here's my question: does Ubuntu have to continue to innovate incessantly to maintain market share? I'm worried that Ubuntu may become a Debian version of Mandriva if that is the case: a distro where persistent old bugs keep resurfacing as they slap another coat of paint on the DE.

[danny joe ritchie]

I will be blunt.

There was IE6. There were other better projects. Then there was Firefox. Life became better (but not best) after. Other projects (like Opera) also saw benefit.

Ubuntu is the same, it has the same flaws and strengths. It is very much needed though because of the way the average person thinks. They most certainly do not think like Linux enthusiasts, they certainly don't want 30 choices. They just don't care that much.

This debate can go on forever, but what I've just stated is the way it is (and will be likely).

I agree with you, the average pc user and the average linux enthusiast think very differently!

To understand why Ubuntu is so popular, a person has to look at it from the average user's point of view!

[LowSky]

everything is a popularity contest.. like who wins the presidency of america, who wins class clown, who wins wins a beuaty contest, who make the best linux.
At the moment becasue the world is tired of all the problems of window's vista, people are looking someone else to carry them along.

people want their program they already use...programs they are familar with (simple instalation of programs such as itunes, office, internet explorer, adobe, java, aol/aim,media player, power dvd) -- sure these need the vendors spport, but the will come around when linux has promised market share.


the giant linux corporations need to push for vendor support, open source and propritary can exist hand in hand.

As much as I might be flamed my ipod should work like with itunes on linux the same way it does on a mac or pc... the linux kernal is free, and apple could port its software easily if enough people where interested. As much as I dont like DRM, it is here to stay for quite a while, and alot of people dont mind it because they dont think about it or care as long as they can watch new episodes of TV on there computer for $2k or buy the new Timberlake song for $1.

[insane_alien]

fanboys exist in all OS's. it is a fact of life. the bigger the distro the more fanboys. just ignore them(since they are easily spotted).

[bruce89]

like who wins the presidency of america, who wins class clown[...].

Same thing.

[southernman]

A year ago, Ubuntuforums was amazing. Now, you can easily get the most basic support, but anything beyond that is a struggle.

Why do you feel this is the case?


So many of the knowledgeable, "geeky" members have moved on (because of the flood of new users and canonical focusing on making the distro work for them) that the only questions that get properly answered are ones like "fix my nvidia drivers".

This isn't entirely true, but I can understand what the general point is.

I am more curious about why you (or other seasoned GNU/Linux vets) feel the outflow of experienced vets is occurring. Does it have anything to do with the old "elitist" attitude I've read about... mostly directed at other purist type of distro and not that of Ubuntu(ers).

[Steveway]

The easiest way would be that not Ubuntu but Chuckbuntu will be the Distro that will be preinstalled on all Pc's.
It has Firechuck, a Browser that only shows the official Chuck Norris Website.
Evochuck, a Mailclient that only allows you to send Mails to Chuck Norris.
And a lot more like, Nautichuck, Network-chuckker, Pidchuck, Synorris, Rythmcuck, Chuck-chicka, ChickNirros and of course Chick-Mc-chit-chat-ching-chang-chong-chau-chu-chuck-motherchucking-NORRIS.
And if you don't like it, he'll Round-house-kick you to the beginning of the Chuckuverse.



:D
EDIT: This Thread has officialy been hichucked.

[bruce89]

So many of the knowledgeable, "geeky" members have moved on (because of the flood of new users and canonical focusing on making the distro work for them) that the only questions that get properly answered are ones like "fix my nvidia drivers". The distro itself is still good. At least thats how I see it, I cannot speak for Fuscia.

I haven't moved on, I just got fed up of typing the same old


sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg

to people.

I haven't been significantly pissed off enough to leave for something better (yet).

[Eddie Wilson]

Of course its a good thing. The people who are afraid of linux becoming popular are the ones who want to keep linux out of the masses. But why Ubuntu they ask. Why not? I've got PCLinux 2007 installed on my computer also along with Mepis but Ubuntu is my main distro. Its easier to use, and does what it is suppose to. No matter what people say I haven't had any major problems with Ubuntu and if I do the Ubuntu forums are a lot quicker in helping with problems than several other forums are. Its not because the other forums are not good or don't have smart people, its because of the size of the Ubuntu forums. I really don't know where the fear that people have of Ubuntu comes from. But its simple and the problem can be solved without much heartache. All you have to do is to install your favorite distro and all will be happy.
Eddie

[distroman]

But is the fact that Ubuntu has the "loudest fanboys" (or let's just say "loudest fans", since the word "fanboy" carries a negative connotation) necessarily a good thing? If each of the major computer manufacturers conducts a Linux distro poll and Ubuntu wins every one of them, will this give us much choice?
I see.


Sure, we'll be able to choose between Windows and Ubuntu
I see, but,,


(as opposed to having no choice at all),
I see.


but wouldn't it be nicer if we could choose between Windows, Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE and Mandriva?
I can't choose?


Since computer manufacturers are naturally reluctant to support several Linux distributions and since it's impossible to stop all the Ubuntu fans from promoting their favourite distro in online polls, what can be done to ensure a greater choice of Linux operating systems?
Ohh, I see.

So Ubuntu will be the downfall of distributions as we know them, only windows will survive it seems. I see no other way then joining forces and create a super Gnu/Linux power edition to prevent this horrible fate. Furthermore I would like to suggest that Mr. Shuttleworth introduced a small fee so we can compete with Microsoft on the terms one should be competing. This might also put an end to all the nonsense not to say demands that manufactures should support the hardware they sell us, that's not the way things are moving, it just has no future.

[vexorian]

It is popular and yes it is a good thing, ubuntu is open source and canonical hasn't sold out to MS so it growing up can only increase choice rather than reduce it (ask Linux Mint users for example...)

[hessiess]

ubuntu is a good bigginer intro to linux, you can switch to somthing more advanced later if you wish.

[Irony]

Ubuntu isn't popular! I've yet to come across a single person who uses Ubuntu - so the question makes no sense.

[vexorian]

I for one am seeing ads for ubuntu courses everywhere in this city.

[Nano Geek]

Ubuntu isn't popular! I've yet to come across a single person who uses Ubuntu - so the question makes no sense.Uhh... Us?

[starcraft.man]

Uhh... Us?

LOL! Well duh! We are the Ubuntu forums :p.

I think Irony means in real life, people he knows, clients, anyone he meets in person...

I disagree. In the city of Montreal we've had a few articles in a few of our more popular local papers/mags discussing using Ubuntu. They may not have always been completely accurate, but considering they've never discussed Linux at all before I think that's progress. I also know a good handful of people using it, though I admit far less than people I know using WIndows/OSX.

[igknighted]

Why do you feel this is the case?

This isn't entirely true, but I can understand what the general point is.

I am more curious about why you (or other seasoned GNU/Linux vets) feel the outflow of experienced vets is occurring. Does it have anything to do with the old "elitist" attitude I've read about... mostly directed at other purist type of distro and not that of Ubuntu(ers).

I think a lot of the more experienced users find many things Ubuntu auto-configures to be obnoxious. Like xorg.conf for example. In Fedora, my default xorg.conf is about 20 lines long. In Ubuntu I think it is over 100. I don't want to sift through stuff for wacom tablets which I will never need, I want the bare minimum. This is just one example. Bluetooth is another. I have no bluetooth devices, it shouldn't load. Trying to find everything that they enable is just more work than me taking a bare minimum setup and adding support for what I need (extra mouse buttons for example).

Then, when I do have problems, I rarely get good answers. It's not that people don't care (and I don't care enough to dig up threads), but ask a question about more complex things here compared to fedoraforum.org. I find I usually get better responses on fedoraforum. Same with Gentoo's forums. It just has to do with the type of questions you ask.

I still hang out here, I browse the beginners talk and throw my $.02 in. I think its valuable to encourage new users. But even with my support here, I am not shy to recommend another distro if I think it might suit the user better. I do not see myself as supporting Ubuntu, but rather linux as a whole.

[Nano Geek]

LOL! Well duh! We are the Ubuntu forums :p.

I think Irony means in real life, people he knows, clients, anyone he meets in person...

I disagree. In the city of Montreal we've had a few articles in a few of our more popular local papers/mags discussing using Ubuntu. They may not have always been completely accurate, but considering they've never discussed Linux at all before I think that's progress. I also know a good handful of people using it, though I admit far less than people I know using WIndows/OSX.Alright, but nearly everyone I know who uses Linux uses (K)(Ed)(X)Ubuntu

[karellen]

Ubuntu isn't popular! I've yet to come across a single person who uses Ubuntu - so the question makes no sense.

I know what you mean. speaking in absolute numbers, Ubuntu (and Linux) is not popular at all. I, for example, know only two people that uses Linux on a daily basis
Ubuntu has a long way to go in the os popularity contest (read market share)

[init1]

No, but I worry that if it does become "too popular" that viruses will become an issue.

[rsambuca]

I think a lot of the more experienced users find many things Ubuntu auto-configures to be obnoxious. Like xorg.conf for example. In Fedora, my default xorg.conf is about 20 lines long. In Ubuntu I think it is over 100. I don't want to sift through stuff for wacom tablets which I will never need, I want the bare minimum. This is just one example. Bluetooth is another. I have no bluetooth devices, it shouldn't load. Trying to find everything that they enable is just more work than me taking a bare minimum setup and adding support for what I need (extra mouse buttons for example).

It seems to me that you want Ubuntu to be something other than what it is. From the beginning, Ubuntu has tried to make it "just work". Considering the myriad of different components and manufacturers, etc., that is no small task. By and large, the developers have been fairly successful at creating an OS that is easy to install, and works on a lot of hardware to produce a system that has the basic software required for everyday users.

The cost of being easy to install and to work on many different systems, is that it is not configured specifically for YOUR system. Most people do not know what components they have, so to ask for this information would preclude the majority of users from being able to install it in the first place.

If you want finely tuned, without a lot of extras, then the standard ubuntu is clearly not what is best for you. Just don't criticize ubuntu for doing what it set out to do in the first place.

[karellen]

I think a lot of the more experienced users find many things Ubuntu auto-configures to be obnoxious. Like xorg.conf for example. In Fedora, my default xorg.conf is about 20 lines long. In Ubuntu I think it is over 100. I don't want to sift through stuff for wacom tablets which I will never need, I want the bare minimum. This is just one example. Bluetooth is another. I have no bluetooth devices, it shouldn't load. Trying to find everything that they enable is just more work than me taking a bare minimum setup and adding support for what I need (extra mouse buttons for example).

Then, when I do have problems, I rarely get good answers. It's not that people don't care (and I don't care enough to dig up threads), but ask a question about more complex things here compared to fedoraforum.org. I find I usually get better responses on fedoraforum. Same with Gentoo's forums. It just has to do with the type of questions you ask.

I still hang out here, I browse the beginners talk and throw my $.02 in. I think its valuable to encourage new users. But even with my support here, I am not shy to recommend another distro if I think it might suit the user better. I do not see myself as supporting Ubuntu, but rather linux as a whole.

what is so wrong with ubuntu auto-configuring and being user-friendly and easy to use? you talk about choice, but you think only at your "choice" - every distro should be like gentoo/slackware/.... if something makes life a little easier for the new and common user, no, no way, it's a treason and selling-out, it's not pure old linux, it takes away choice and so on. yes, the choice of editing config files, I strongly doubt anyone who just wants to use an os would embrace that "choice" (headache). I really don't understand why are you complaining in fact. there are like 1002 linux distros out there. why don't you use gentoo or some more challenging distro?

[blithen]

Wow...never thought about that. I might switch distro just to get a change of pace. But I really love ubuntu. I might virtualize a distro. But I don't want KDE, just to much like windows.

[Polygon]

ubuntu is the only distro atm that supports my wireless card out of the box. I have used other distros such as Suse and Sabayon and they dont support it. Cant do much without internet.... *deletes partition*

[igknighted]

It seems to me that you want Ubuntu to be something other than what it is. From the beginning, Ubuntu has tried to make it "just work". Considering the myriad of different components and manufacturers, etc., that is no small task. By and large, the developers have been fairly successful at creating an OS that is easy to install, and works on a lot of hardware to produce a system that has the basic software required for everyday users.

The cost of being easy to install and to work on many different systems, is that it is not configured specifically for YOUR system. Most people do not know what components they have, so to ask for this information would preclude the majority of users from being able to install it in the first place.

If you want finely tuned, without a lot of extras, then the standard ubuntu is clearly not what is best for you. Just don't criticize ubuntu for doing what it set out to do in the first place.

I never said it was bad, I said that it is a reason why myself and other more experienced users would look for another distro. It is really good for new users, but veterans might like something else. I don't want Ubuntu to change its goal if mine doesn't align, I want to make sure that Ubuntu getting all the press doesn't diminish distros that are more in line with my needs.

[igknighted]

what is so wrong with ubuntu auto-configuring and being user-friendly and easy to use? you talk about choice, but you think only at your "choice" - every distro should be like gentoo/slackware/.... if something makes life a little easier for the new and common user, no, no way, it's a treason and selling-out, it's not pure old linux, it takes away choice and so on. yes, the choice of editing config files, I strongly doubt anyone who just wants to use an os would embrace that "choice" (headache). I really don't understand why are you complaining in fact. there are like 1002 linux distros out there. why don't you use gentoo or some more challenging distro?

I think you miss the point. I have NOTHING against Ubuntu at all. Period. I just don't think it is better than other distros by any quantifiable measure. And I don't think that Ubuntu should gobble up all the opportunities from other distros. It would be nice to see a OEMs just distribute any distro of your choice. That would be ideal. But short of that, lets have a few vendors pick alternate distros.

[Nano Geek]

I think you miss the point. I have NOTHING against Ubuntu at all. Period. I just don't think it is better than other distros by any quantifiable measure. And I don't think that Ubuntu should gobble up all the opportunities from other distros. It would be nice to see a OEMs just distribute any distro of your choice. That would be ideal. But short of that, lets have a few vendors pick alternate distros.However, its the people who are deciding this, not the company. And the vast majority of users want Ubuntu on their computers.

Ubuntu itself is not taking the other distros chance away. They just need to build a superior product.

[Buffalo Soldier]

For me what Ubuntu has that others don't is Balance:
1 install CD, but huge software repository.
Based on Debian, but been slightly improved for the desktop-experience.
Huge and active community (especially this forum), but at the same time not too scary for newbies to jump and join in.
Middle point between bleeding-edge and stability.
Clear focus and objective since the beginning by having Mark Shuttlework as SABDFL, but also active community participation in decision making through Community Council and sub-Councils.

[Anthem]

I hate to be nasty about it, and I don't want to start any inter-distro quibbling, but I disagree that all distros are the same.

Fedora and Suse are both nice, but neither can be installed from a single CD. That's big. Plus, both of them have MASSIVE repository problems. There's a reason it's called "rpm hell" and not "deb hell." With Mandriva, it's hard to say. I was a big Mandrake user back in the day, but they really seem to have lost their way in recent years. I keep expecting them to go under.

[ThinkBuntu]

Ubuntu isn't even popular until someone counts their options on their fingers and says "Windows, Mac, or Ubuntu." Right now, it's only popular amongst techies and, of course, the users it's picked up along the way.

[igknighted]

I hate to be nasty about it, and I don't want to start any inter-distro quibbling, but I disagree that all distros are the same.

Fedora and Suse are both nice, but neither can be installed from a single CD. That's big. Plus, both of them have MASSIVE repository problems. There's a reason it's called "rpm hell" and not "deb hell." With Mandriva, it's hard to say. I was a big Mandrake user back in the day, but they really seem to have lost their way in recent years. I keep expecting them to go under.

Err, that is just flat wrong. Both Suse and Fedora have single CD installers. Suse has single CD install disks for Gnome and KDE installs, and Fedora has installable LiveCDs for gnome and KDE. And please cite evidence of "rpm hell" being worse than "Debian hell" if you want to make that claim, I have found Fedora's repos to be at least as reliable, if not more so, than ubuntu's.

You clearly have not used any of the distro's you are talking about in any recent enough time to be at all relevant. Even Mandriva is once again a top quality product after going through the hard times you mentioned above. They did indeed have the issues you mentioned, but that has been turned around for over a year and right now they are one of the very best again.

[flatwombat]

(Aside: Fedora sure can be installed by a single CD - check out the Live CD installer options - I've installed that way & just downloaded SuSE 1-CD installer too).

Anyway, back to the main question. Yes, it's a very good thing. Ubuntu's got the backing (Thanks, Mark!) to make an impact without being tied to a Pay-For version that's a MS competitor in the Server market. That means that there's little resistance from Big Brother to having it pre-installed in a limited number of desktops and laptops.

Then, it's coming in late in the game and having built on the most solid distro out there: Debian. Now you have stability and ingenuity thanks to attracting an excellent development team. Also, it is aimed at the new user and ease of use; good combo for now and the future.

Strangely, the main popularity competition won't come from Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo or most of the other, older linux distros. They're aimed at a different user and market. What will challenge and IS challenging Ubuntu is PCLinuxOS. This variant of Mandriva is a small-group production but done extremely well and is now ranking #2 consistently on Distrowatch. Not that this kind of competition is bad; it's among friends and helps build the draw for linux as an OS. Let's be realistic; MS is now... Linux should be the future.

Edited (Rather than posting again in response to MissionImpossible): Red Hat had it's home user's version which became Fedora when RHEL went strictly commercial. Distrowatch..okay, not totally accurate but a reasonable benchmark.. lists the following:
Page Hits-Per-Day Ranking - 12 month: Ubuntu 2584, PCLOS 1857
last 6 months: Ubuntu 2545, PCLOS 2509
last 3 months: Ubuntu 2085, PCLOS 2495
last 30 days: Ubuntu 2166; PCLOS 2549

[VraiChevalier]

The answer is: change is hard, but to not change is to stagnate. Embrace change.

My question is......

The easiest way would be that not Ubuntu but Chuckbuntu will be the Distro that will be preinstalled on all Pc's.
It has Firechuck, a Browser that only shows the official Chuck Norris Website.
Evochuck, a Mailclient that only allows you to send Mails to Chuck Norris.
And a lot more like, Nautichuck, Network-chuckker, Pidchuck, Synorris, Rythmcuck, Chuck-chicka, ChickNirros and of course Chick-Mc-chit-chat-ching-chang-chong-chau-chu-chuck-motherchucking-NORRIS.
And if you don't like it, he'll Round-house-kick you to the beginning of the Chuckuverse.



:D
EDIT: This Thread has officialy been hichucked.

..... who is "Chuck Norris"?


sudo apt-get install chuck-norris

[eentonig]

Who cares which linux distro is getting preinstalled?

As long as it has all the bells and whistles that a newbee needs when you take it out of the box. So he can start using it right away. Anything more challenging then opening an application will be asked to a computer litterate friend anyway.

Whatever distro will be picked. You'll have 90% of the linux community complaining that it's not their choice. The most important thing is now to get linux preinstalled by as many vendors as possible. Then later on, you can start thinking about which versions of linux should be offered as well.

[MissionImpossible]

(Aside: Fedora sure can be installed by a single CD - check out the Live CD installer options - I've installed that way & just downloaded SuSE 1-CD installer too).

Anyway, back to the main question. Yes, it's a very good thing. Ubuntu's got the backing (Thanks, Mark!)....



Strangely, the main popularity competition won't come from Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo or most of the other, older linux distros.
Well, Fedora is relatively new, and very much cutting edge (as is openSUSE).
IMO, Ubuntu, SLED/openSUSE, RHEL/Fedora and Mandriva are the top contenders for a place OEM PCs as a preinstalled OS, plus some Asian Linux distros for the Asian market.

What will challenge and IS challenging Ubuntu is PCLinuxOS. This variant of Mandriva is a small-group production but done extremely well and is now ranking #2 consistently on Distrowatch.

This is a JOKE, is it not? :lolflag:

[karellen]

I think you miss the point. I have NOTHING against Ubuntu at all. Period. I just don't think it is better than other distros by any quantifiable measure. And I don't think that Ubuntu should gobble up all the opportunities from other distros. It would be nice to see a OEMs just distribute any distro of your choice. That would be ideal. But short of that, lets have a few vendors pick alternate distros.

about OEM distributing any distro at choice...I'll quote two comment from the DW Weekly Newsletter:

don't think the real reason a company like Levono would choose Ubuntu is just the votes in some public poll.

If you think about it Fedora Core and openSuse are not real choices. Redhat and Novell do not support them. If you want support you have to go with RHEL or SUSE Enterprise Desktop which do cost money and would increase the laptop's price.

In the other hand, distros like PCLinuxOS and Debian have their own issues. PCLinuxOS is developed by just a few people, doesn't have a company backing it up. Its more like a hobbyist distro than something you can count on for having responsible enterprise class support. Debian in the other hand is build on a solid foundation and is very stable, however again to offer support Levono would need to create a Linux support department. (or something like that)

Ubuntu however looks like the perfect choice. It is the most popular Linux desktop, it does have a massive community that can provide support and it is increasingly user friendly. And as for professional user support, Levono would just connect users to Canonical support after making a deal.

So I'd say we should not thing a huge company like Levono would make such a decision based on votes or the "loudest fanboys" but remember the more important issues.
and besides...if a pc/laptopt comes with Ubuntu Linux installed this means that any Linux distro could be installed and word successfully on it. so what's the problem? if someone wants, he wipes out ubuntu and puts something else in place
again...
I don't really understand the opinion of many people here... Yes, Linux is about choice, but too much choice does not really work for many "typical users"... I mean, most of us will just install our distro of choice anyway... I don't really care which distro it comes with because I'll just go ahead and install whichever distro I want. But we do have to acknowledge that us, distrowatch readers, are not precisely "typical users", and "typical users" don't worry too much about choice; they just want their computer to work, and they want to be able to use it without having to read a manual. And ubuntu is great for that!

Having Ubuntu (or any other, for that matter) is great not because of choice, but just because it means typical users will get more in touch with the fact that they CAN have a choice... Whether it's Ubuntu, Open SuSe or Gentoo is irrelevant. Now, those people who say "I'd prefer if Lenovo offered laptops with whatever distro I wanted" are completely out of their minds; manufacturers simply can't give support to every single distro out there, they have to choose one (yeah, maybe two or whatever) and stick to it because of support costs, and simplification of assembly, etc... Anyway, let's be realistic; do I (personally, for me) really care what distro it comes with? NO! Probably cause I like to install my own distro and tune it the way I want it. So I don't really care, what I do care though, is that they DO sell laptops without Windows, and with a Linux distro in it. We shouldn't care so much about which distro it is, or if it is only one, even if it's only one it's a great win as it shows "typical users" that there is life beyond Windows (and then, once people begin to get that we can worry about showing them that there's many other "versions/distros" out there).

[MissionImpossible]

about OEM distributing any distro at choice...I'll quote two comment from the DW Weekly Newsletter:

and besides...if a pc/laptopt comes with Ubuntu Linux installed this means that any Linux distro could be installed and word successfully on it. so what's the problem? if someone wants, he wipes out ubuntu and puts something else in place
again...

Since you are quoting DW Weekly Comments section, I, too, will do same with a couple of relevant ones.

1. From Fedora Representative
69 • Fedora has no reason to be jealous. (by Paul Stauffer)
"ThinkPads booting into Ubuntu, and not Fedora, might soon be available from
the computer stores near you. If that does not make Spevack at least mildly
jealous, then I don't know what does."

Why do so many people seem to want the distros to be jealous of each other?

Ubuntu is doing their thing. Fedora is doing their thing. Those things
aren't really the same thing. They each have their niche in the Linux
ecosystem, and the successes and contributions of each distro are on the
whole good for all the other distros too.

If Fedora's user base never grew by a single additional user, but the
project continued to make valuable contributions to the Linux community, and
continued to push the development of quality open source software forward,
then the project would still be a resounding success. Ubuntu's numbers have
absolutely nothing to do with Fedora's success.

- Paul Stauffer, Fedora Ambassador

And this one by "For the record":

91 • OK (by For the record)
1. Lenovo is already committed to selling Thinkpads with Novell SLED preinstalled.
2. SLED is based on openSUSE. Thus any enthusiast will easily be able to install and run openSUSE on these machines.
3. Lenovo is canvassing the Linux "ENTHUSIAST" (NOT NEWBIE) user base for a second choice of Linux DIstro!
4. If Lenovo installs Ubuntu (or Fedora, Mandriva, openSUSE, Debian) and uses open source drivers, then there is no problem for any enthusiast to install his/her distro of choice in addition to, or over the top of, the Lenovo preinstalled distro.

"...@42 • Ubuntu & Levono (by afonic from Greece)
I don't think the real reason a company like Levono would choose Ubuntu is just the votes in some public poll....

If you think about it Fedora Core and openSuse are not real choices. Redhat and Novell do not support them. If you want support you have to go with RHEL or SUSE Enterprise Desktop which do cost money and would increase the laptop's price...."

FYI: Novell does sell support for Boxed versions of openSUSE!

[DjBones]

with gutsy's implementation of compiz fusion i can see alot of new people switching over for just the cube and being completely lost then get frustrated when things don't play nice.. which could end up with bad PR

but thats only being pessimistic ;]

[igknighted]

http://www.raiden.net/?cat=2&aid=297

I certainly agree with much of this... Pardus is a tremendous distro (but has tiny repo's), PCLOS does some good things but my gut says it wont succeed (but rather will show the way for others to follow), and Mandriva is a very solid distro (despite urpmi). I've never used Alt, so I cannot comment on it.

[karellen]

Since you are quoting DW Weekly Comments section, I, too, will do same with a couple of relevant ones.

1. From Fedora Representative
69 • Fedora has no reason to be jealous. (by Paul Stauffer)
"ThinkPads booting into Ubuntu, and not Fedora, might soon be available from
the computer stores near you. If that does not make Spevack at least mildly
jealous, then I don't know what does."

Why do so many people seem to want the distros to be jealous of each other?

Ubuntu is doing their thing. Fedora is doing their thing. Those things
aren't really the same thing. They each have their niche in the Linux
ecosystem, and the successes and contributions of each distro are on the
whole good for all the other distros too.

If Fedora's user base never grew by a single additional user, but the
project continued to make valuable contributions to the Linux community, and
continued to push the development of quality open source software forward,
then the project would still be a resounding success. Ubuntu's numbers have
absolutely nothing to do with Fedora's success.

- Paul Stauffer, Fedora Ambassador

And this one by "For the record":

91 • OK (by For the record)
1. Lenovo is already committed to selling Thinkpads with Novell SLED preinstalled.
2. SLED is based on openSUSE. Thus any enthusiast will easily be able to install and run openSUSE on these machines.
3. Lenovo is canvassing the Linux "ENTHUSIAST" (NOT NEWBIE) user base for a second choice of Linux DIstro!
4. If Lenovo installs Ubuntu (or Fedora, Mandriva, openSUSE, Debian) and uses open source drivers, then there is no problem for any enthusiast to install his/her distro of choice in addition to, or over the top of, the Lenovo preinstalled distro.

"...@42 • Ubuntu & Levono (by afonic from Greece)
I don't think the real reason a company like Levono would choose Ubuntu is just the votes in some public poll....

If you think about it Fedora Core and openSuse are not real choices. Redhat and Novell do not support them. If you want support you have to go with RHEL or SUSE Enterprise Desktop which do cost money and would increase the laptop's price...."

FYI: Novell does sell support for Boxed versions of openSUSE!

I've read those, DW is my favorite Monday lecture

[purdy hate machine]

Popularity is relative. I don’t know anyone in the real world who has even heard of Ubuntu let alone use it.

[ezsit]

I use Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.10 and 7.04 (I started with 5.04) and in all my experimenting, have not found a distro that works better, excepting pure Debian.

I used to find the Ubuntu forums useful, but like many others, now go elsewhere for a community feeling and support. I find the debian.net forums the best place for support and community since a lot of people there are more knowledgeable and friendlier than anywhere else.

I like that Ubuntu has wide popular appeal and is getting attention, I like the fact that it still works best for me, but I cannot stand the flood of users in these forums. Sorry to say it, but popularity has a price and when the community gets too big and attracts more newbies than experienced people, the forum usefulness goes down the tubes.

So yes, the hardware manufacturers' attention is great, the spread of Ubuntu everywhere is great, just give me better forum options than Ubuntu's forums and I'm a happy camper.

And btw, since Ubuntu is just a remix of Debian packages, any good Debian user can help with Ubuntu questions.

[southernman]

I think a lot of the more experienced users find many things Ubuntu auto-configures to be obnoxious. Like xorg.conf for example. In Fedora, my default xorg.conf is about 20 lines long. In Ubuntu I think it is over 100. I don't want to sift through stuff for wacom tablets which I will never need, I want the bare minimum. This is just one example. Bluetooth is another. I have no bluetooth devices, it shouldn't load. Trying to find everything that they enable is just more work than me taking a bare minimum setup and adding support for what I need (extra mouse buttons for example).

Then, when I do have problems, I rarely get good answers. It's not that people don't care (and I don't care enough to dig up threads), but ask a question about more complex things here compared to fedoraforum.org. I find I usually get better responses on fedoraforum. Same with Gentoo's forums. It just has to do with the type of questions you ask.

I still hang out here, I browse the beginners talk and throw my $.02 in. I think its valuable to encourage new users. But even with my support here, I am not shy to recommend another distro if I think it might suit the user better. I do not see myself as supporting Ubuntu, but rather linux as a whole.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I've met with a little displeasure too, the fact that my system loads support for laptops, bluetooth as well. You'd think a smart system... would be smart enough to say, "oops no laptop or bluetooth here... don't load and move on." *shrugs* Perhaps that's just the end result of wanting/needing to be an all encompassing Linux distro. It just seems to this relative rookie, their would have to be a better way to manage that.

No worries for not digging up threads. Wasn't expecting you too, really. ;) I understand better with the comparison of gentoo forums though. I've tried gentoo, but it was a little to puristic for me with the compile times. Great distro, just not my cup of tea atm. A friend I've made here has introduced me to the ARCH distro. If that doesn't turn out to be for me, I'll probably go with a minimal install of Gutsy and add what I need on top... still have some experimenting to do yet.

For me personally, Ubuntu has been a nice place to really get my feet wet with Linux. Try to do as much from the command line as possible... and do heaps of reading. I suppose I could have done the exact same thing though with any of the other heavily gui based distros. Guess that makes this point mute at best. ;)

[aaaantoine]

Thanks for the replies, guys! This thread is a good read. :)

I really like Ubuntu. I must like it to still be using it after a month. The last time I played with Linux was with Mandrake 10.1, and I went through such agony trying to build a new version of ALSA to get my sound card working. I gave up on it after three weeks of tooling (and breaking things) and told myself I'd try linux out again after a couple of years. Now, I alternate regularly between Windows and Ubuntu on my laptop, and some days I don't use Windows on the laptop at all.

I've always looked forward to using Linux on one of my PCs, and Ubuntu has been my best taste of Linux yet. And since you can get any Linux application to work (and even many Windows apps through wine) on any distro, I think it is a good thing that there is a single, more popular distribution paving the way into the mainstream.

[Nano Geek]

Popularity is relative. I don’t know anyone in the real world who has even heard of Ubuntu let alone use it.Are we not in the "real world"? I seem to be alive at least.

[igknighted]

Are we not in the "real world"? I seem to be alive at least.

/me pokes self

"Oww!"

I guess so...

[Incense]

While I don't think that Ubuntu is perfect, it is a great distro, and it is a great contender for the spotlight. Anything to get the linux word out is a good thing.

[uzybear]

i think just the opposite; i think geeks are afraid of their stuff being brought out into the sunlight of non-computer people; but let's face it, ubuntu really isn't a geek-distro; it's a people's distro, usable, complete, functional; let the geeks have gentoo, linux from scratch, or whatever, and that's said coming from a rather geeky person myself :)

personally, i'll be honest, i have it OUT for microsoft, and i really REALLY want linux (or whatever open OS i don't care, but linux is the frontrunner) to make the jump from a geek-OS to a computer-user OS; this would heavily benefit the geeks as well because this is the only way you'll get widespread driver support, and vastly more involvement and applications developed for linux

the dell thing is a VERY good thing, just not for the purist-geeks only interested in themselves

[uzybear]

While I don't think that Ubuntu is perfect, it is a great distro, and it is a great contender for the spotlight. Anything to get the linux word out is a good thing.

bingo; and right now it just so happens to be the best full-featured user-friendly distro out there

[uzybear]

it would also be completely ridiculous to put a geek-distro like gentoo on a DELL or IBM because of course the geeks have no problem axing ubuntu, or suse, or whatever comes on the pc, and putting what they want on; but a ready-built pc that works with linux means more driver support!!!!!!!!!

[Coyote21]

Is Ubuntu popular?

Yes, all my university partners have it and talk about it, so it's is popular, most because, of his using ease, you don't have the same problems as in other distro's, particularly the RPM based one's, most because of the fact that debian packages are more stable. But, if you install a lot of things, then you will be in trouble. And most important, your files don't "magically disappear" between boot's of the system, like in other distros.

Is that an good thing?

Depends of the viewing point, if your an user, yes it is, because you will have more support, particularly from other users. If you are an developer of the project, them it can stress you out, since you always know, that the users are expecting a lot more, for the next version, and sometimes it isn't just possible to fulfill that expectation. But, it is also true, that you will probably have an extra motivation, for doing your work well.