Alternative DE's and WM's

[LaRoza]

Many seem to think it is GNOME or K and will wage holy wars against the other, but I have found one that I like better than both, or any DE I've tried.

After trying every DE I could, I have settled on Xfce. It has everything I want, and is extremely fast and efficient.

Window Maker, OpenBox, BlackBox, and a others, were in the running, but Xfce won.

Anyone unhappy with GNOME or KDE, should check Xfce out!



sudo aptitude install xfce


Here was what I was looking for:


Here was my criteria:

* Light, even though I have 2 gigs of RAM and a duel core processor, I wanted something simple
* Menu's to select apps, NOT icons on the desktop or panel
* A clean (empty) desktop

[andrek]

Agree. XFCE is a really powerfull DE and it should be tried by everyone.

[LowSky]

i have xfce on my laptop. i like it for its speed on a 6 year old laptop. but i like Gnome a little better for its customization for my much new desktop.

[DigitalDuality]

d

[~LoKe]

I've yet to find a problem with Gnome so I'll keep it.

[nvteighen]

Well, Xfce has surprised me a lot. I still use GNOME because I like more... (maybe I'm just used to it). But Xfce will have a great future and may be a major threat to both GNOME and KDE.

[igknighted]

i really never understood the point of xfce.

xubuntu and many xfce distributions come with many really good small useful applications, but i can use those in any DE.

As a DE itself, it just seems like a crippled gnome with bareless less resource usage.

That's because you only used Xubuntu... :). Xfce is very powerful. Check out SAM Linux or ZenWalk to see what Xfce is supposed to look like (not really all that much like gnome honestly). It is more lightweight (doesn't load gnome libs or kde libs unless you ask it to), easy to configure (although not quite as easy as KDE or Gnome, but not hard), and the wm is the best included with any DE (until the new kwin comes out). It can do compositing and even besides that it has a bunch of ingenious features. Yes, Xfce can do true transparencies and run AWN or Kiba-Dock without the need for Beryl or Compiz. I used to think the same as you, that Xfce was pointless. But after trying some true Xfce distros, it's a great DE.

[LaRoza]

i really never understood the point of xfce.

As a DE itself, it just seems like a crippled gnome with bareless less resource usage.

To clarify my situation:

* I have Ubuntu Feisty (well, for this I do)
* I have installed every DE I could, the "session" option is quite long :-)
* After trying them all, I settled on Xfce.

Here was my criteria:

* Light, even though I have 2 gigs of RAM and a duel core processor, I wanted something simple
* Menu's to select apps, NOT icons on the desktop or panel
* A clean (empty) desktop

I would take a screenshot, but it is just plain black. Everything I do is through a small hidden panel, with two lauchers on it, and the right click menu.

Switching desktops and such is easy and everything is just a click away...

I don't have the Xfce apps mentioned, and don't know what they are, I personally have all the apps that come with Ubuntu and Kubuntu, and often use Konqueror and Nautilus.

I am not saying an DE is better than any other, I just have different criteria in my selection than the average person. I spend a lot of time programming, and like to use my computer and monitor for that.

[Anthem]

I'm not sure how "lightweight" it really is. When I've tried XFCE, it hasn't used much less than GNOME in terms of resources used.

There are true lightweight WMs out there, but XFCE seems more like a middleweight.

[LaRoza]

There are true lightweight WMs out there, but XFCE seems more like a middleweight.
True, it was lightweight compared to what I had.

Window Maker and OpenBox are probably true lightweights.

I used a lot of WM and DE's, and don't remember all of their names, but many were too light for what I wanted, I basically wanted a light DE with the functions of GNOME.

[Perfect Storm]

Big gnome fan here :guitar:

But if I didn't have the option to go Gnome, I would say E17 FTW!!!1 (especially on Elive distro).

[Tuna-Fish]

I'm not sure how "lightweight" it really is. When I've tried XFCE, it hasn't used much less than GNOME in terms of resources used.

There are true lightweight WMs out there, but XFCE seems more like a middleweight.

Note that if you use compositing, most of the load of moving windows around and like is actually moved to the gf card, and well, unless I'm gaming, extra load to the gf cards essentially is no load. From this twisted perspective, xfce is easily the lightest one out there.

[nowshining]

gnome is fine for me... i'm glad ur happy with what you chose as for me, I it is fine for my needs and I liked windows startbar and startmenu and I hated it at top like MAC - i have it at the bottom like Microsoft's one and kind of like the mac one, but i got er' set up the way I like..as long as it quits changing on me i'll be fine...ty very much..but nice thread tho..

[Anthem]

Note that if you use compositing, most of the load of moving windows around and like is actually moved to the gf card, and well, unless I'm gaming, extra load to the gf cards essentially is no load. From this twisted perspective, xfce is easily the lightest one out there.
If you use compositing, all of the desktops become lightweight.

Composited Gnome is very snappy.

[vexorian]

I'll have to move away from gnome since the leadership seems to be bribed by MS in effortst to make Linux dependant on MS technology.

I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.

I am hoping KDE4 is a good enough alternative to gnome and then I'll move, else I think that when gnome becomes totally dependant on .net I will have to deal with the things I don't like in xcfe.

You may call what I said FUD but it is the truth. In fact ubuntu already comes with MONO preinstalled... I have no problems with MONO as an alternative technology but purpotedly making the whole DE dependant on it is like handling MS an off switch. And MS will eventually use it.

Perhaps gnome could be forked but I doubt so. I am disappointed since in feisty I really liked gnome more than KDE unlike breezy

[LaRoza]

Big gnome fan here

But if I didn't have the option to go Gnome, I would say E17 FTW!!!1 (especially on Elive distro).

I tried Enlightenment, but since I don't have an internet connection, I was unable to get it the way I wanted, many DE's suffered because of this.

I have the repositories on DVD's, form thelinuxstore.ca. I am somewhat limited in what I can use.

I too like GNOME, and used GNOME as my default DE during my search.

[loell]

i would agree, when it comes to lightweight DE,
E17 is top on the list, don't mind eye candy it provides :P

just look at the low resources it consumes :)

[curuxz]

Im going to really **** people off with this comment but, I use KDE because I have a GOOD computer ;)

Don't care about resources on my machine, sorry :)

E17 is cool tho!

[tbroderick]

You may call what I said FUD but it is the truth.

It is. You don't need Mono to run GNOME. Mono can be easily avoided if you so choose.

[LaRoza]

Im going to really **** people off with this comment but, I use KDE because I have a GOOD computer ;)


My computer system specs:

* Dual core 64 bit processor
* 2 GB of RAM
* 17 in LCD monitor
* Good video card (enough for Beryl with all the effects, and still not slow the computer down noticably)

Read the reasons for my choice, function. I wanted something to do exactly what I wanted, and nothing more. Programming and the other things I do require me to be focused, I like things as plain as possible, to prevent distraction.

I have nothing against KDE or any other DE, but was searching for the perfect fit. I found it in Xfce.

I have all the other DE's on the computer also, but Xfce is now my default. It looks great with Beryl, by the way.

[bobbocanfly]

I currently use OpenBox and GNOME. OpenBox is so lightweight it is unbelievable and contrary to popular belief, dead easy to setup. Dynamic menus FTW.

[kadath]

I'm a happy Xfce user. Never really liked KDE, and some parts of Gnome annoy me (mostly a lot of the low-quality software that gets bundled with it, like Rhythmbox and Totem). The Gnome devs also don't seem interested in fixing bugs that have been left untouched for a long time, or implementing features that many users have been asking for.

I use Xfce because it's a lot like Gnome, minus the bloat, useless default apps and arrogant devs. It's not perfect by any means, but each new release has been a noticeable improvement over the previous.

Also, anyone claiming Xfce isn't as lightweight as the *boxes needs to remember that they're just WMs, when Xfce is a full DE.

[RAV TUX]

Many seem to think it is GNOME or K and will wage holy wars against the other, but I have found one that I like better than both, or any DE I've tried.

After trying every DE I could, I have settled on Xfce. It has everything I want, and is extremely fast and efficient.

Window Maker, OpenBox, BlackBox, and a others, were in the running, but Xfce won.

Anyone unhappy with GNOME or KDE, should check Xfce out!



sudo aptitude install xfce


I have to agree with you. I have recently installed Xubuntu and absolutely love it!

I like e17 but XFCE has won my heart. XFCE is by far more superior to both GNOME and KDE.

GNOME is like an aging grandmother with a persistent case of acne.

KDE is like a toddler on crack.

e17 is a like Eddie Izzard, a beautiful very funny eccentric English transvestite.

XFCE is refinement and simplicity like a springtime rain on a forest path in the Cascade range in Oregon, simply refreshing.

EDIT: just to clarify I really like GNOME, KDE & e17....also.

I find Xubuntu simply enjoyable and refreshing.

[RAV TUX]

That's because you only used Xubuntu... :). Xfce is very powerful. Check out SAM Linux or ZenWalk to see what Xfce is supposed to look like (not really all that much like gnome honestly). It is more lightweight (doesn't load gnome libs or kde libs unless you ask it to), easy to configure (although not quite as easy as KDE or Gnome, but not hard), and the wm is the best included with any DE (until the new kwin comes out). It can do compositing and even besides that it has a bunch of ingenious features. Yes, Xfce can do true transparencies and run AWN or Kiba-Dock without the need for Beryl or Compiz. I used to think the same as you, that Xfce was pointless. But after trying some true Xfce distros, it's a great DE.

I would highly suggest Wolvix (http://Wolvix.org/) also.


Big gnome fan here :guitar:

But if I didn't have the option to go Gnome, I would say E17 FTW!!!1 (especially on Elive distro).

e17 is poetically beautiful, and the elive distro is the best way to use e17.




I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.


I don't use Desktop Icons on any DE in any OS.


i would agree, when it comes to lightweight DE,
E17 is top on the list, don't mind eye candy it provides :P

just look at the low resources it consumes :)

e16 is pretty damn awesome also.


Im going to really **** people off with this comment but, I use KDE because I have a GOOD computer ;)

Don't care about resources on my machine, sorry :)

E17 is cool tho!

Both e16 & e17 are very cool.

[nonewmsgs]

e 17?

[kadath]

I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.

Actually I believe you can change the look of desktop icons in Xfce. I swear I remember seeing a solution for exactly what you're talking about. You might want to ask on the Xfce forum or in their IRC channel.

Also, Thunar is the best file manager I've ever used. It's not an FTP client, it's not a web browser, etc. It lets you MANAGE FILES. Nothing more, nothing less.

[vexorian]

I don't use Desktop Icons on any DE in any OS.But I do.


It is. You don't need Mono to run GNOME. Mono can be easily avoided if you so choose.

That's it right now. But Miguel has said in several occasions there will be a move and now the plan is to use MONO altogether under the excuse that it would provide language independence (while in fact, will restrict the languages to .net languages...)


Also, Thunar is the best file manager I've ever used. It's not an FTP client, it's not a web browser, etc. It lets you MANAGE FILES. Nothing more, nothing less.I would say not being ftp browser is a bad point for thunar, it is understandable that we don't want more web browsers, but ftp,ssh,sftp are all so common taxes and there's nothing better for a web developer than having those tasks integrated with the file browser, something that I've seen go so well in Kubuntu, and because of buggy implementations of *ftp in nautilus I really miss, was forced to use gftp which is a set back in productivity.

[ubuntukerala1980]

i like XFCE but i am addicted to gnome :guitar:

[santiagoward2000]

Welcome to XFCE! LOL

[rsambuca]

I'll have to move away from gnome since the leadership seems to be bribed by MS in effortst to make Linux dependant on MS technology.

I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.

I am hoping KDE4 is a good enough alternative to gnome and then I'll move, else I think that when gnome becomes totally dependant on .net I will have to deal with the things I don't like in xcfe.

You may call what I said FUD but it is the truth. In fact ubuntu already comes with MONO preinstalled... I have no problems with MONO as an alternative technology but purpotedly making the whole DE dependant on it is like handling MS an off switch. And MS will eventually use it.

Perhaps gnome could be forked but I doubt so. I am disappointed since in feisty I really liked gnome more than KDE unlike breezy

:-({|=

[Spr0k3t]

I'll have to move away from gnome since the leadership seems to be bribed by MS in effortst to make Linux dependant on MS technology.

...

You may call what I said FUD but it is the truth. In fact ubuntu already comes with MONO preinstalled... I have no problems with MONO as an alternative technology but purpotedly making the whole DE dependant on it is like handling MS an off switch. And MS will eventually use it.

Perhaps gnome could be forked but I doubt so. I am disappointed since in feisty I really liked gnome more than KDE unlike breezy

You should look into Vala. That is the direction Gnome is heading for quick dev application building. Granted it has its bugs, but they are getting there. Aren't there only three applications which use mono? I think F-Spot is the only one bundled in Ubuntu.

[nowshining]

I'll have to move away from gnome since the leadership seems to be bribed by MS in effortst to make Linux dependant on MS technology.

I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.

I am hoping KDE4 is a good enough alternative to gnome and then I'll move, else I think that when gnome becomes totally dependant on .net I will have to deal with the things I don't like in xcfe.

You may call what I said FUD but it is the truth. In fact ubuntu already comes with MONO preinstalled... I have no problems with MONO as an alternative technology but purpotedly making the whole DE dependant on it is like handling MS an off switch. And MS will eventually use it.

Perhaps gnome could be forked but I doubt so. I am disappointed since in feisty I really liked gnome more than KDE unlike breezy



what i was somewhat thinking - i'm with u there but not just on gnome but with ubuntu in whole..

[fuscia]

Here was my criteria:

* Light, even though I have 2 gigs of RAM and a duel core processor, I wanted something simple
* Menu's to select apps, NOT icons on the desktop or panel
* A clean (empty) desktop

1. kde is pretty easy. i guess you could keep it simple by not doing much.

2. you know you can have right-click menus and scrollable workspaces in kde, yes?

3. see screenshot below

[gotonpo]

xfce is king. i wish ubuntu would make use of xfce in it's flagship distro instead of gnome. few good distros do this, and i think xfce has a lot of potential to be unleashed.

i've tried all the frequently suggested ones.. wolvix, SAM, zenwalk, dreamlinux.. none are very elegant. wolvix comes closest but i still came back to xubuntu (or ubuntu w/ xfce installed depending on which machine i'm on).

shuttleworth! make xfce your flagship! do it!

p.s. - i too have a pretty blazing system. intel core 2 duo (2.13ghz per core), 2 gigs ram, nice nvidia card.. xfce is NOT just for old hardware.

[dentaku65]

I did some ping-pong DE between Gnome and KDE; at last I choose KDE because... on my system is really quicker and less problematic... in the meanwhile I've tried for a period Xfce, but even if is quite good, have a lot of limitations, one above all the impossibility to drag and drop program/shortcut on the bar or desktop... I really cannot managed right click etcetera every time...

[wersdaluv]

Hmmmm...

Im'ma give e a try. I always loved KDE because of its apps and its capability to be customized. Lately, I have been using GNOME and starting to think of having it as my main DE, but the KDE apps that I love have problems XFCE GNOME. Whenever I switch to a workspace with an inactive QT app, the QT app requests attention and its annoying.

I'm going to give XFCE a spin because I have a humble hardware and it seems to have good integration of GTK and QT apps. I'm just hesitating on this because XFCE is not as complete as GNOME and KDE. I think whether a piece of software is for mission critical activities or not so I am thinking if xfce is complete enough to match KDE and GNOME in the "mission critical department."

[Gargamella]

me too, xfce is so faster.
it lacks some features but has already all I need

[Arwen]

I always hated windows XP-like KDE so I chose GNOME which is very fast on my pc and I really like its configuration.Now I'm tempted to use XFCE for a change,working on solaris CDE wasn't a real shock so it won't be a trouble for me..

[Darkhack]

For the most part I don't care much about the DE/WM I use when it is between GNOME, KDE, and XFCE. I don't like any of the lightweight ones like Openbox or Fluxbox because it becomes so watered down that it actually becomes a challenge to manage windows, navigate files, etc. XFCE is still a bit quirky; the taskbar just feels odd to me and there is a very limited set of icons by default, so if you have several different web browsers you will still see the same default "Internet" icon that is included.

My first DE was KDE back when I tried Knoppix (too afraid to commit to an install) and I stuck with KDE when I moved on to Mepis and committed to an install on that. I must say that Mepis probably has the best installer of any Linux distribution. Even better than Ubuntu. Anyways, I'm now using GNOME on Ubuntu because it is the main focus of Canonical and gets all the attention. When KDE 4 comes out, I'll look at it and consider switching. The big drawback to GNOME is how slow GTK+ is compared to Qt. It seems that despite the focus on GNOME from Canonical, Novell, Red Hat, and all the other big players, GTK+ development is extremely slow and appears dead at times.

[forrestcupp]

All this talk about Mono is ridiculous. Yes .NET is Microsoft. But Mono is not .NET. Mono has nothing to do with Microsoft. There is nothing wrong with someone who has to use .NET at work being able to come home to their Ubuntu computer and program in an environment they're familiar with.

We've had Wine in widespread use for a long time now, and none of you whined about having to leave Ubuntu or Gnome or anything. And Wine has a lot more to do with Microsoft than Mono does.

[urukrama]

I don't like any of the lightweight ones like Openbox or Fluxbox because it becomes so watered down that it actually becomes a challenge to manage windows, navigate files, etc.

The idea behind lightweight window managers, like Openbox, is that they just manage the windows. For other tasks you use other applications (Thunar as file manager, a separate panel, idesk for desktop icons, etc.). In this way you get a 'desktop environment' that exactly suits your needs, and does everything you want it to do and nothing more.

I'm liking XFCE again. It has been a while since I've been using it, but I returned to it. I never quite liked its window manager (xfwm4), though. I find it clunky, and the themes I've seen aren't that great. I therefore use Openbox in XFCE now. It is very elegant, and very fast. The best of both worlds.

[fuscia]

I always hated windows XP-like KDE

how is kde like xp?

[urukrama]

how is kde like xp?

There was once a cow who was happily resting in a barn when a fire broke out. The fire terrified the cow and almost prevented her from escaping the burning barn, but in the end, the farmer came to her rescue and helped her out. The cow caried that trauma with her for the rest of her life. The farmer had an orange-red table cloth and when he washed it put it out on the clothes line to dry, next to the cow's pasture. Whenever the breeze would make the table cloth move, that poor cow remembered the traumatic experience of being in the burning barn, and thinking it was surrounded by fire once more, ran off, totally terrified.

[SQuark]

With every Ubuntu upgrade, I was getting more and more annoyed with the direction Gnome was taking. Eventually this drove me to try Xfce, and I've never looked back. (Like others have stated though, it was Zenwalk that convinced me of its true potential, and not Xubuntu, which by default doesn't really show its powers). This pretty much sums it up for me:

The Gnome devs also don't seem interested in fixing bugs that have been left untouched for a long time, or implementing features that many users have been asking for.

I use Xfce because it's a lot like Gnome, minus the bloat, useless default apps and arrogant devs. It's not perfect by any means, but each new release has been a noticeable improvement over the previous.


Also, Thunar is the best file manager I've ever used. It's not an FTP client, it's not a web browser, etc. It lets you MANAGE FILES. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thunar is great! Its custom actions are a lot more intuitive than Nautilus scripts. And it actually manages to show every icon at the same size, so that everything is displayed very cleanly (very much unlike Nautilus which seems to use random sizes for the icons. :???: EDIT: I just thought I'd back that claim up with a screenshot (http://www.b3tards.com/u/e6745c06944423e1f8c9/screenshot1.png). Nautilus on the left, Thunar on the right. Look especially at the difference between Planet Penguin Racer and Power Management!) Plus: it supports right-click-dragging!

What I like best about Xfce is the way you can easily create a menu-like launcher group. Clicking the icon of the group opens the first launcher, clicking the arrow next to it reveals a menu with the other launchers. I now have all my most used apps only one click away, and every other app I'd ever want to use just two clicks! Yay efficiency!




I wasn't able to pick xcfe which is a shame, it comes with gtk, can use the tango themes easily, etc but got a drawback to me and it is that the desktop icons are forcefully looking ugly since there is no way to have transparency instead of the rectangle around text and you can't scale icons up which is something I love.
Solution (http://xubuntu.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/howto-remove-the-borders-of-your-desktop-icon-text/).
I for one like the forced raster on the desktop (and in Thunar). It keeps everything looking very clean. I've never been a fan of gigantic trashcans (especially since I use (Shift+)Del anyway).


in the meanwhile I've tried for a period Xfce, but even if is quite good, have a lot of limitations, one above all the impossibility to drag and drop program/shortcut on the bar or desktop... I really cannot managed right click etcetera every time...
The trick is to use xfce4-appfinder and drag from there. Took me a while to find out as well. :)



BTW: I've toyed with the Elive live CD for about 15 minutes and was really impressed with combination of speed and eyecandy. Incredible!
But all the bling seems a bit too distracting to me. I'll probably give it a decent try once I find enough free time though.

[Arwen]

Start button down-left,one-for-all manager(YAST!=Synaptic) and too slow(in my humble pc:-P)Just personal opinion,I've had KDE in suse 10.0 and mandriva and suffered from several unresponding apps.Things are a lot better with gnome,besides it's really a different style and I like it.It's not that I consider KDE to be useless or sth(I've seen it in others' pcs and worked just fine) but it reminds me of XP days.

[urukrama]

What I like best about Xfce is the way you can easily create a menu-like launcher group. Clicking the icon of the group opens the first launcher, clicking the arrow next to it reveals a menu with the other launchers. I now have all my most used apps only one click away, and every other app I'd ever want to use just two clicks! Yay efficiancy!

This is one of the features of the xfce4-panel that I love. Very handy and aesthetically pleasing. Gnome's drawer comes nowhere close.

[fuscia]

There was once a cow who was happily resting in a barn when a fire broke out. The fire terrified the cow and almost prevented her from escaping the burning barn, but in the end, the farmer came to her rescue and helped her out. The cow caried that trauma with her for the rest of her life. The farmer had an orange-red table cloth and when he washed it put it out on the clothes line to dry, next to the cow's pasture. Whenever the breeze would make the table cloth move, that poor cow remembered the traumatic experience of being in the burning barn, and thinking it was surrounded by fire once more, ran off, totally terrified.

:guitar::guitar::guitar:

[Darkhack]

The idea behind lightweight window managers, like Openbox, is that they just manage the windows. For other tasks you use other applications (Thunar as file manager, a separate panel, idesk for desktop icons, etc.). In this way you get a 'desktop environment' that exactly suits your needs, and does everything you want it to do and nothing more.

I've used lightweight WMs before and I do have fun customizing things to meet my needs. I even used Gentoo once just to see what it was like. In the end though, I realized that all I was doing was causing myself more trouble than it was worth. I wasn't getting much of a learning experience out of it and it's just a lot easier to install GNOME and KDE and have everything I need. Another advantage is that everything is integrated and designed to work together. If I were using an older computer though, I would be willing to sacrifice the convenience of GNOME/KDE for the quickness of a WM.

[kadath]

This is one of the features of the xfce4-panel that I love. Very handy and aesthetically pleasing. Gnome's drawer comes nowhere close.

QFT. Xfce's panel somehow manages to be more fully-featured than Gnome's, yet easier to work with.

The only complaint I have is that it's not as easy to use an image for a background for the panel as it is in Gnome.

[vexorian]

All this talk about Mono is ridiculous. Yes .NET is Microsoft. But Mono is not .NET. Mono has nothing to do with Microsoft. There is nothing wrong with someone who has to use .NET at work being able to come home to their Ubuntu computer and program in an environment they're familiar with.

We've had Wine in widespread use for a long time now, and none of you whined about having to leave Ubuntu or Gnome or anything. And Wine has a lot more to do with Microsoft than Mono does.
Nobody is using WINE to code actual apps or planning to eventually code the whole Linux desktop apps as windows executable so you will have to use Wine to run them. Mono and novell guys actually have friging access to microsoft source code! I mean do you plan to have MS decide you need to use a distro that signed the patent deal in order to simply use your favorite desktop environment? I don't , and thus I figured that if gnome stays in the direction it is taking I will have to move eventually so it was a good idea to get used to other desktops.





Solution.
I for one like the forced raster on the desktop (and in Thunar). It keeps everything looking very clean. I've never been a fan of gigantic trashcans (especially since I use (Shift+)Del anyway).


Thanks. regarding scalable icons I don't use them for the trash can, mostly this:
43018

It makes sense to me to sort app icons by relevance, I also do so with files and folders in the bottom side of my desktop, I like that setup. And is something I would miss a lot.

[mrgnash]

I love Gnome, even though I'm using XFCE on my laptop right now -- y'know why? Because XFCE is Gnome Lite.

[vexorian]

Is it? I really thought that's a missinterpretation that could be cause by trying xubuntu which seems to be too gnome like.

[mrgnash]

Is it? I really thought that's a missinterpretation that could be cause by trying xubuntu which seems to be too gnome like.

That could be it... because I have only used XFCE through Xubuntu.

[thisllub]

My computer system specs:

* Dual core 64 bit processor
* 2 GB of RAM
* 17 in LCD monitor
* Good video card (enough for Beryl with all the effects, and still not slow the computer down noticably)

Read the reasons for my choice, function. I wanted something to do exactly what I wanted, and nothing more. Programming and the other things I do require me to be focused, I like things as plain as possible, to prevent distraction.

I have nothing against KDE or any other DE, but was searching for the perfect fit. I found it in Xfce.

I have all the other DE's on the computer also, but Xfce is now my default. It looks great with Beryl, by the way.

Mine is similar only I have 2 video cards running 22" and 19" lcd screens and a 21" CRT.
All that screen space demands a different paradigm to searching for start buttons. E17 is the best at that. It manages multiple screens and desktops perfectly, independently of each other and looks great.

[happysmileman]

Im going to really **** people off with this comment but, I use KDE because I have a GOOD computer ;)!

I know I'm going to really **** people off with this comment, but I use KDE because I have a BAD computer and want a good DE but still can't stand the ugliness of GNOME (and I know you say I can theme it, but KDE is easier for me to theme, it doesn't try and hide any options from te user, and I don't want to have to actually put in much effort to making a computer look good), other than the ugliness I find it crashes less and is easier to work with (yes I do program things so that's a huge plus to have easy access to all the KDE-libs)

And I suppose the reason KDE is apparently like XP is that the menu is at the bottom by default, and a lot of things are blue, and lets face it, that's much worse than trying to include Microsoft .net into a distribution and having the GNOME leaders willingly try and incorporate MS tech into GNOME. I mean seriously... BLUE [/sarcasm]

[christopherZA]

I know I'm going to really **** people off with this comment, but I use KDE because I have a BAD computer and want a good DE but still can't stand the ugliness of GNOME

Well I'm a Linux Gnome but I agree with you. I am using Gnome only until KDE4 / Kubuntu 7.10 is out of BETA. There is only one thing I don't like about KDE and that is its default font - but hey, is that not what the control panel is for.

I have a decent PC ( P4 1.5GB-400 RAM 7600GS-256MB 19"TFT) and my wifes is an ol-crap-er ( 750Mhz Duron 512MB-133 RAM 32MB TNT 17"TFT) and with the enhancements in KDE I will have both running optimized for their hardware and their purpose - Mine is for entertainment / software development and hers is admin.

:twisted: Lifes tough living in Africa, but its easier than the land of M$ :twisted:

[RAV TUX]

1. kde is pretty easy. i guess you could keep it simple by not doing much.

2. you know you can have right-click menus and scrollable workspaces in kde, yes?

3. see screenshot below

That is the best looking KDE I have ever seen. I have to admit that KDE is the most user friendly DE and as you have clearly pointed out you can make it what ever you want it to be. Minimalistic or bling depending on what you want.

KDE is what you make it.



p.s. - i too have a pretty blazing system. intel core 2 duo (2.13ghz per core), 2 gigs ram, nice nvidia card.. xfce is NOT just for old hardware.


Mine is similar only I have 2 video cards running 22" and 19" lcd screens and a 21" CRT.
All that screen space demands a different paradigm to searching for start buttons. E17 is the best at that. It manages multiple screens and desktops perfectly, independently of each other and looks great.

I too have all the bells and whistles you can ever want.




My first DE was KDE back when I tried Knoppix (too afraid to commit to an install)...

This is a shame KNOPPIX is still one of the best distros to install on your hard drive, I had it installed for about 8 months and constantly went back to it, still do.

The KNOPPIX installer has still one of the easiest to use and most reliable installers to date.

[Darkhack]

This is a shame KNOPPIX is still one of the best distros to install on your hard drive, I had it installed for about 8 months and constantly went back to it, still do.

The KNOPPIX installer has still one of the easiest to use and most reliable installers to date.

Knoppix wasn't designed to be installed to the hard drive. The developers actually don't recommend it. Also I'm using GNOME now, so be careful about misquoting people.

[DoktorSeven]

Fluxbox. The perfect combination of lightweight, power, and ease of configuration (if you don't mind editing a few files, but big deal).

I'm in love. :)

[zetsumei]

Fluxbox. The perfect combination of lightweight, power, and ease of configuration (if you don't mind editing a few files, but big deal).

I'm in love. :)

I have to agree with this person. Fluxbox is lightweight, powerful, etc. and I keep coming back to it everytime =) The only downfall is that you have to edit some files (menus, etc.) to get it customized to your liking. I might just download fluxbuntu even though my computer is more than capable of handling GNOME, KDE, any other DE's. I just prefer simplicity, power over pretty GUIs.

[RAV TUX]

Knoppix wasn't designed to be installed to the hard drive. The developers actually don't recommend it. Also I'm using GNOME now, so be careful about misquoting people.

I am completely aware of what they tell you and want you to believe.

The truth is much different.

In fact the installer states that it is for experienced users only and you must know what your doing.

Here's a question for you: If KNOPPIX was never meant to be installed to your hard drive then why does it come by default with an installer specifically built for KNOPPIX?

The truth is KNOPPIX is in fact one of the best distros to install on your hard drive, but they simply do not want to give support to a bunch of beginners or intermediate Linux users.

I am not sure what you're referring to misquoting?

Furthermore; you can install KNOPPIX with GNOME, but you'll need the 8 GB Maxi-DVD, it may be on the 4 GB DVD also but I can't remember.

GNOME KNOPPIX installed was my distro of choice for quite a while.

If you're afraid to question everything then you should not install KNOPPIX.

EDIT:

you meant this quote:


Originally Posted by Darkhack http://ubuntuforums.org/images/uf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3330543#post3330543)

My first DE was KDE back when I tried Knoppix (too afraid to commit to an install)...
I edited where the "..." starts as not to offend you, my apologies.

[ArtF10]

...Xfce can do true transparencies and run AWN or Kiba-Dock without the need for Beryl or Compiz....

So wait....If you can install CF on XUbuntu, does that mean that you can ALSO install CF on say.... Zenwalk? In the exact same manner?

[igknighted]

So wait....If you can install CF on XUbuntu, does that mean that you can ALSO install CF on say.... Zenwalk? In the exact same manner?

CF is a replacement WM. What I am saying is that you can accomplish some of the same effects of CF, without ever needing it. CF is a bit of a resource hog because it tries to implement a ton of effects. However, the theory behind it (compositing) can actually speed up desktop responsiveness if used in moderation. So what Xfce does is implement compositing with some shadows and basic transparencies (and does none of the excessive stuff like the cube or wobbly windows). A benefit of this is that you are able to use apps that require composite support within the Xfce window manager (like AWN or Kiba). If you install and use the CF window manager, all of the performance benefits of Xfce are out the window.

I've never used ZenWalk (Lilo does not play well with my system), but it is linux so you could of course compile CF for it. I would imagine that it would handle it just fine.

Oh, if you are just asking whether CF can run over Xfce in general (in the same way as it does for Gnome and KDE), then the answer is yes. It works just fine, but remember you are switching WMs so your system is no longer as light and responsive.

[Bart_D]

I find Xfce to be great, but I still have to reserve the title of BEST for something else. That something else (DE) might be whatever DE is used in Fluxbox....Flux?? From what I've seen on these forums, it runs faster. Now, customizing it to make it look the way you want is another thing because I trialled it for a day in Fluxbuntu and never really liked the feel...I never installed any(whatever are possible) customizations so the overall feel was very PuppyLinuxISH which is fast but the user interface was not to my liking. Right now, I'm using Xfce but I would say that IF you can customize it to no end, Flux would be faster and, I'm pretty sure, give you almost everything Xfce gives, but hey....I'm just a newb so I can;t say this with much experience to back me up.

[RedSquirrel]

Fluxbox is lightweight, powerful, etc. and I keep coming back to it everytime =) The only downfall is that you have to edit some files (menus, etc.) to get it customized to your liking.

For some people it is quite an adjustment to learn to configure things by editing text files (too much of an adjustment in some cases).

For others, this method of configuration is marvelous. I prefer to use cat, grep, and vim to configure things rather than using multiple mouse clicks but to each their own. :grin:

[bruce89]

Why do people feel compelled to post "Goodbyyyeee" threads?

They just breed flaming.

[CityofAsh]

I think the most leightweight DE is Fluxbox personally.

[Coyote21]

I personally like Enlightenment, specially the new version. To bad, it didn't supports beryl (yet).

XFce, is just an lightweight copy of gnome, that has fewer applications and nothing more. I also don't like GTK either, because it didn't has an full C++ api, like for example QT, so it increases my personally disliking of both XFce and GNOME.

[LaRoza]

Why do people feel compelled to post "Goodbyyyeee" threads?

They just breed flaming.

No flames, look at the posts before hijacking.

What should the title have been?

Many people use KDE or GNOME, but many others exist, and some are actually more suitable for certains uses.

Fluxbox was never the original topic, just Xfce which I found to suit my needs for now, and I said why, although I still do like GNOME and KDE (among others), Xfce is what I am using now.

[LaRoza]

XFce, is just an lightweight copy of gnome, that has fewer applications and nothing more.

Xfce doesn't have any applications other than its components. Distros that come with it are typically lighter though, like Xubuntu.

It is like a lighter GNOME, but there are differences, and I like those differences.

-EDIT I just was messing around with the KDE on my other computer (Slackware) and made it look almost exactly like my Xfce environment, down to the right click menus. KDE is more configurable than I original thought!

[rsambuca]

I think the most leightweight DE is Fluxbox personally.

Very lightweight indeed, but actually a Window Manager, not a Desktop Environment.

[DjBones]

xfce is great, Zenwalk is xfce based and its one of my favorite distro's out there.. along with AntiX that makes in my opinion the best use of fluxbox

[SQuark]

XFce, is just an lightweight copy of gnome, that has fewer applications and nothing more.

In Coca-Cola marketing terms, I like to think of Xfce as Gnome Zero, rather than Gnome Light (or Diet Gnome if you will): all the benefits, zero downsides. :D

[ryno519]

I also don't like GTK either, because it didn't has an full C++ api, like for example QT, so it increases my personally disliking of both XFce and GNOME.

Have you tried gtkmm? Serves my (Gtk+)+(C++) needs quite nicely. I find gtkmm a pleasure to code with. It makes excellent use of standard C++ and OO design.

[vexorian]

In Coca-Cola marketing terms, I like to think of Xfce as Gnome Zero, rather than Gnome Light (or Diet Gnome if you will): all the benefits, zero downsides. :D
wasn't Zero linked to very bad things lately? I dunno I heard about coca cola retiring it...

ryno519: thanks for that I have always wanted to try to make gtk apps.

From a programmer's perspective it makes more sense to make gtk apps (seriously) mostly because it will integrate correctly with xcfe, gnome and KDE (since you can use qt as gtk engine...) (although this is also a good reason to use KDE you can configure the looks of QT and GTK apps at the same time...)

[smartboyathome]

I currently use GNOME, but once XFCE gets a good menu editor, you may very well see me in there perminantly.

[Sayers]

xfce is on my laptop but KDE is god.

[ryno519]

I currently use GNOME, but once XFCE gets a good menu editor, you may very well see me in there perminantly.

No kidding. The one they have now is god awful. I've started writing one similar to alacarte for Xfce a couple of days ago with gtkmm. Hopefully I'll find some spare time to finish it.

[BLTicklemonster]

I'm running Gutsy, and have xfce-4.

Has anyone here tried it?

I used icewm and fluxbox a lot before, but have settled on xfce. For some reason, gutsy won't let me go straight to it like feisty would. I have to specifically click on xfce to run it. Which is why I'm in Gnome right now posting about how I use xfce. (I keep forgetting to start in xfce, silly me)

[danny joe ritchie]

I have xfce-4 and gnome installed but there isn't much difference in speed, KDE is noticeably slower?

[bimmerd00d]

i've been playing musical DE's the past few days. Gnome resides on my desktop, simply because I don't like farting with it, and I watch movies on my 27" LCD to the right. I may change it one day, but for now it stays. My laptop has had the 3 (x)(k)ubuntu variants the past few days, and i still can't decide what i want. I dig the speed of XFCE, but i can't find any good support for it. I'm used to Gnome, enough to get around KDE, but there are a lot of simple things in xfce that i'm not doing well with right now. I think i just need more time!

[BLTicklemonster]

I'm sorry, but every time I see this thread, I think of the Crimson Binome.

[LaRoza]

Update:

After using Xfce for a while, I found a few aspects I wanted to change, and began looking into alternatives that would fulfill my specs. I found Fluxbox, and Blackbox.

I found the ease of customization of the *box's, and the exact fitting to my requirements a dream come true. I wrote my own theme, just the way I wanted it, and made my own menu just be editing a text file. Plus, Fluxbox, takes no noticeable time to load after logging on, the background of the logon screen is the same colour as my desktop, which has no bars, panels or icons, so it looks like the logon box just disappears.

[tom-ubuntu]

As this seems to come up now more often:
Why do people think they need to let the whole world to know, when they are disappointed with a DE and switch to another? Just do it and be happy that you have the possibility and stop whining about it.

Just my 2 cents. Thank you.

[LaRoza]

As this seems to come up now more often:
Why do people think they need to let the whole world to know, when they are disappointed with a DE and switch to another? Just do it and be happy that you have the possibility and stop whining about it.

Just my 2 cents. Thank you.
In case other people are looking...

I still like KDE and GNOME, but for what I wanted for this computer, on this OS, I had different criteria.

I wasn't whining, I was looking for a perfect fit, something impossible to do in other OS's, and most things in life.

Many new comers to Linux feel overwhelmed with choices, and lack of knowledge about those chooses can lead to unfounded assumptions. Like those people who dislike Linux because of the way it looks, yes, I have heard such comments.

This was supposed to be informative and possibly a discussion of DE and WM features people might like.

When someone asks me about Linux and want me to recommend a distro for them, the GUI is a critical factor in making a recommendation, many people will turn away from Linux because they assume Ubuntu and GNOME are representative of Linux in general. They don't understand at first, that it is a bazaar, not a cathedral.

-EDIT, I realize now the title isn't quite appropriate, and may lead others to think I have an emotional reaction in my decision.

[RAV TUX]

Many seem to think it is GNOME or K and will wage holy wars against the other, but I have found one that I like better than both, or any DE I've tried.

After trying every DE I could, I have settled on Xfce. It has everything I want, and is extremely fast and efficient.

Window Maker, OpenBox, BlackBox, and a others, were in the running, but Xfce won.

Anyone unhappy with GNOME or KDE, should check Xfce out!



sudo aptitude install xfce
Here was what I was looking for:

Update post for me:

while I actually like GNOME, KDE, & XFCE all about the same, I find them all a bit boring even with Compiz-Fusion installed.

I prefer something different; something beautiful, I prefer e17 (http://www.enlightenment.org/), specifically in Elive Gem 1.0 (http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=4333)
(I specifically enjoy the e17 default Night Version theme)

Streamtuner with Streamripper in Elive Gem 1.0 with e17 default Night Version theme:
http://cafelinux.org/OptickleArt/albums/userpics/normal_streamtuneragain.png (http://cafelinux.org/OptickleArt/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0)

IceWeasel in Elive Gem 1.0 with e17 default Night Version theme:
http://cafelinux.org/OptickleArt/albums/userpics/normal_2ndCylenceTheme2BlackEditionBeta2.png (http://cafelinux.org/OptickleArt/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=1)

I honestly really wish Canonical would distribute an official version of Ubuntu with e17 and help in the overall e17 development.

[LaRoza]

I honestly really wish Canonical would distribute an official version of Ubuntu with e17 and help in the overall e17 development.

Is there a live disk, or free distro that I can get to try it out?

I don't have an internet connection at home, but can download things at schools and bring them home.

[RAV TUX]

Is there a live disk, or free distro that I can get to try it out?

I don't have an internet connection at home, but can download things at schools and bring them home.

You can try e17 out in Ubuntu see the following updated thread by Rui Pais (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=862) on how to install e17 in Ubuntu:

HOWTO: installation of E17 from CVS (UPDATED) (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546746)

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=546746

Also the live disk free torrent download I have already linked in my previous post, it is on LinuxTracker here it is again:
Elive Gem 1.0 (http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=4333)


If you like e17 and/or Elive Gem 1.0 don't forget to donate to the project.