Photons flout the light speed limit

[RAV TUX]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/i/t.gif
'We have broken speed of light'


By Nic Fleming, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 16/08/2007

A pair of German physicists claim to have broken the speed of light - an achievement that would undermine our entire understanding of space and time.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/graphics/2007/08/16/uein.jpg

Albert Einstein won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1921


According to Einstein's special theory of relativity, it would require an infinite amount of energy to propel an object at more than 186,000 miles per second.



However, Dr Gunter Nimtz and Dr Alfons Stahlhofen, of the University of Koblenz, say they may have breached a key tenet of that theory.
The pair say they have conducted an experiment in which microwave photons - energetic packets of light - travelled "instantaneously" between a pair of prisms that had been moved up to 3ft apart.

Being able to travel faster than the speed of light would lead to a wide variety of bizarre consequences.
For instance, an astronaut moving faster than it would theoretically arrive at a destination before leaving.

The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws.
Dr Nimtz told New Scientist magazine: "For the time being, this is the only violation of special relativity that I know of."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/16/scispeed116.xml

[Kowalski_GT-R]

???? confused....

The Article is dated 16-08-2007, surely such an achievement would deserve more attention from the media...

[tigerpants]

Its not Space and Time, its Spacetime. The two are intrinsic. That was the whole point of Einsteins theory. Pedantic point I know, but fundamental.

[Chilli Bob]

A team in Melbourne have been doing this for a year or more.

[RAV TUX]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/i/t.gifhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/16/scispeed116.xml

Further investigation reveals, that there is debate wether the speed of light has been broken, in fact the article in the OP, may in fact have mis-understood the experiment.

Here is some more information on this:




THIS ARTICLE APPEARS IN NEW SCIENTIST MAGAZINE ISSUE: 18 AUGUST 2007.
http://www.newscientist.com (http://www.newscientist.com/)http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/ns-lst081607.php

I'm searching for the original article now.

[RAV TUX]

Further investigation reveals, that there is debate wether the speed of light has been broken, in fact the article in the OP, may in fact have mis-understood the experiment.

Here is some more information on this:


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/ns-lst081607.php

I'm searching for the original article now.

The original article can be found here titled, Photons flout the light speed limit :
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg19526173.500-photons-flout-the-light-speed-limit.html

[Chilli Bob]

A rule of thumb is...

Travel through space faster than the speed of light - BAD (according to relativity)

Disappear from one point and re-appear instantaniously somewhere else - GOOD (acording to quantum mechanics)

The problem is getting the thing to reappear where you want it to, Also, how do you know if it's the same thing, or a new thing with identical properties?

(By "thing" I mean sub-atomic particles)

Didn't this used to have a spell checker?

[mips]

Photons don't have mass, they do however have momentum.

The photon thing always confused me at school, could be described by two principles.

[Ultra Magnus]

As I understand this, this doesn't break releativity, its a quantum effect. Instantaneous "spooky action at a distance" has been oberved before - see quantum entanglement or quantum teleportation. I think it doesn't violate relativity, I can't remember exactly but it has something to do with information on the particles being lost or not being transferred faster than the speed of light or something. But cool experiment anyway.

[RAV TUX]

Didn't this used to have a spell checker?

I don't think UbuntuForums have ever had a spell checker but I could be wrong.

Firefox and Opera should both have spell checkers.

[shynko]

Opera dosn't have a spell checker.

[ssam]

have a read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

[RAV TUX]

Opera dosn't have a spell checker.
This is a bit off topic but the Opera I use does have a spell checker.

[RAV TUX]

have a read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

Nice article, I also found this article on Günter Nimtz interesting:


Günter Nimtz of the Physics Institute at the University of Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cologne) (Universität zu Köln) in Germany has been conducting experiments that purport to show that under certain conditions, particles may travel faster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light) than the speed of light (c) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light). He and his coauthors have been publishing papers on this subject since the early 1990s,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz#_note-weiss) which involve light beams, prisms, and mirrors.
For example, a 2007 paper[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz#_note-0) described an experiment which sent a beam of microwaves towards a pair of prisms. The angle provided for total internal reflection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_internal_reflection) and setting up an evanescent wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave). Because the second prism was close to the first prism, some light leaked across that gap. The transmitted and reflected waves arrived at detectors at the same time, despite the transmitted light having also traversed the distance of the gap. This is the basis for the assertion of faster-than-c transmission of information. However, Chris Lee has stated that there is no new physics involved here, and that the apparent faster-than-c transmission can be explained by carefully considering how the time of arrival is measured (whether the group velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_velocity) or some other measure).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz#_note-1)
Aephraim M. Steinberg[1] (http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/%7Eaephraim/aephraim.html) of the University of Toronto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Toronto) has also stated that Nimtz has not demonstrated causality violation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality_violation) (which would be implied by transmitting information faster than light).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz#_note-weiss)
Nimtz himself says:
The new experiment does not provide an answer to the fundamental question of whether faster-than-light transport of information is possible.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz#_note-2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nimtz

[angryfirelord]

Opera dosn't have a spell checker.
Sure it does, but it doesn't have the red underlines that you see in Firefox. You have to go to Edit-->Check Spelling.

Getting back on topic, it could be possible to travel faster than the speed of light, but insanely difficult to do for big things like people & time slows down when you reach the speed of light. Personally, I'm still waiting for my portable wormhole. ;-)

[stalker145]

I fully agree with this great thinker


"It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light, and certainly not desirable, as one's hat keeps blowing off."
-- Woody Allen

QuoteDB (http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1696)

[Chilli Bob]

Sure it does, but it doesn't have the red underlines that you see in Firefox. You have to go to Edit-->Check Spelling.

Getting back on topic, it could be possible to travel faster than the speed of light, but insanely difficult to do for big things like people & time slows down when you reach the speed of light. Personally, I'm still waiting for my portable wormhole. ;-)


Do'h, I was using Seamonkey the other day, that's why there was no spell checker.

On topic, time doesn't slow down as you approach the speed of light, at least not for the travelers. Someone in a different frame of reference may think otherwise though.

[Spike-X]

Once the Chinese Government has prevented people from reincarnating without permission, they could start cracking down on these disobedient subatomic particles that shamelessly go around defying the laws of physics?

[RAV TUX]

Do'h, I was using Seamonkey the other day, that's why there was no spell checker.

On topic, time doesn't slow down as you approach the speed of light, at least not for the travelers. Someone in a different frame of reference may think otherwise though.Seamonkey doesn't have a spellchecker?

[Frak]

Once the Chinese Government has prevented people from reincarnating without permission, they could start cracking down on these disobedient subatomic particles that shamelessly go around defying the laws of physics?
I know, darn those sub-atomics (gripe) ;)

[ryno519]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x234/rynoon/240px-TheDoctor.jpg

"You bet your *** we do!"

[Chilli Bob]

Seamonkey doesn't have a spellchecker?


Maybe it's left out of Puppy to save space.

[Iandefor]

FTA:
The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws.

Quantum tunneling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling) is a well-known phenomenon. It's still spooky as hell, but nothing new at all.

[@trophy]

They're wrong.

And every six months, there's another pair of scientists somewhere claiming the same thing.

They'll be wrong too. Photons won't be breaking c any time soon.
Remember: 300000 kilometers per second: not only a good idea, IT'S THE LAW!

See you all in six months.

[rsambuca]

Don't forget the hypothetical tachyons, which in theory will ALWAYS travel faster than the speed of light.

[Kowalski_GT-R]

"It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light, and certainly not desirable, as one's hat keeps blowing off."

..class..:biggrin:

[Frak]

Don't forget the hypothetical tachyons, which in theory will ALWAYS travel faster than the speed of light.
I thought they always traveled at the speed of light?

[Miguel]

I thought they always traveled at the speed of light?

No, tachions always travel faster than c (299792458 m/s by definition, by the way). Just imagine a parabolic well (plot f(x)=x^2 in gnuplot or any other software). Masses are basically the square root of the "slope" of the parabola corresponding to a potential. If we had a potential with a negative parabola, the particle associated to that field, would have imaginary mass, and for it's energy to make sense, that particle's speed would have to be greater than c.

Anyway, this is quick off my mind, and I'm more into condensed matter than into high energy.

Finally, you also have to remember that Especial Relativity + Quantum Mechanics = not good. It's because quantum mechanics treats space and time in a different footground. If you want to have a theory which mixes quantum "things" while being correct from the especial relativity point of view, you need Quantum Field Theory (TM ;)). I don't remember using QFT to other than scattering, broken symmetry and a few other things, so my practical knowledge in QFT applied to tunneling is basically null.