Gobuntu free software??

[ruibernardo]

Gobuntu is coming out with Gutsy (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/130). I've tried it when it was first launched in July. On it's first release it didn't even install Gnome or anything else (just a bare command line). Now I'm installing it again, just for fun(?) and it is much more developed.

Gobuntu is Linux 101 (Ubuntu in this case). Back to basic, folks. No propriety drivers or software. A good way to free yourself from IP. :popcorn:

Now the question is: its intentions is to push people to use and give a push to really free software. Is it practical? Is it a dead end? Or is it the most liberal Linux distro around here?

Yeah, Linux (and Ubuntu) is about freedom, isn't it? What do think about it?

The primary target of this thread is to give real free alternatives to Gobuntu users about things they usually do with propriety software. For example, ATI users have a free driver for their graphic card. Don't remember its name now, because I (unfortunately) use nvidia.

This way this could really help people to use Gobuntu.

So, beside your opinion about Gobuntu, please feel free to post here the free alternatives that can be used on Gobuntu for flash, codecs, drivers, wireless, etc. All that you can remember that has(?) to be done with IP software.

[Rhapsody]

One thing I've found about the '100% Free' distros is that it's easier for novices to do this than for power users. I think my parents may be able to get by on a PC with nothing but free software in a while (Gnash and nouveau will help) while I have greater difficulties (unrar being the best example of a non-free package that I'd have trouble getting rid of, w32codecs would be a lesser example).

I like to make moves towards more free and less proprietary software, but I think Gobuntu would be a step too far right now.

[sumguy231]

Honestly, I care more about how usable my operating system is more than how "free" it is. I prefer open drivers and applications when they're available, but without proprietary drivers I couldn't have hardware acceleration or even post here since my wireless card requires them. I feel like my sentiment is probably a pretty common one, and honestly I think the main target audience for Gobuntu is Richard Stallman. Trying to get by without proprietary software is a noble yet foolish cause at the current time.

[ruibernardo]

Yes, but I would like to take this as far as it is possible, regardless of what can't(?) be done. It is what Gobuntu is about.

I've just run Firefox in Gobuntu and went to YouTube. When Firefox asked about a plugin, I've installed Gnash Flash Player (mozilla-plugin-gnash). Then it asked me to "Search for a suitable codec" and proposed to install "GStreamer ffmpeg video plugin".

Is ffmpeg video plugin a free plugin? Can anybody confirm it?

Anyway, I've restarted Firefox and went to another website with Flash on it, and guess what: Gnash really works :)

[sonofusion82]

yes, i don't really mind using proprietary software if the company play nice with the Linux community and start making their linux port as one of their main product/support, not just producing lousy software/drivers for linux just because we demand for it. I am happy with nvidia's drivers as they give pretty good support to us with their drivers, unlike many wifi hardware manufacturers which doesn't give a damn about us.

[Kingsley]

What are the advantages of freeing myself from IP software?

[jrusso2]

I would love to run a totally free as in speech operating system if it was practical.

So I run what works, which is Ubuntu along with some proprietary drivers and applications as needed.

I use Wine and Crossover office and vwware to fill in gaps as needed.

In the mean time I don't really see any advantage to making a distro totally free software.

Most people are going to need to use some non-free software.

I mean its only going to be practical maybe for 2% of Linux users.

[ruibernardo]

Kingsley, I think there are many advantages. The main one is the one that you came to Ubuntu/Linux: usually IP isn't supported but by the owner and you really don't know what propriety software installs in your box. Take this to its highest practical SO (windows) and you get virus/adware/problems/etc. And the main reason: imagine thar the wheel was copyrighted...

[ddrplayer512]

Does it have different repositories? Like it only has Free Software?

This Gobuntu thing sounds cool, but I really like software that happens to be proprietary, but still it soundos really cool.

[angryfirelord]

Kingsley, I think there are many advantages. The main one is the one that you came to Ubuntu/Linux: usually IP isn't supported but by the owner and you really don't know what propriety software installs in your box. Take this to its highest practical SO (windows) and you get virus/adware/problems/etc. And the main reason: imagine thar the wheel was copyrighted...
Still, if the proprietary solution works well, then I'll use it. Just because it's not open-source doesn't make it bad. Sometimes, you have to make money for your family and be able to sell software.

& I've never gotten a virus or spyware on my XP box yet. Run a firewall (Filseclab) and anti-virus (AVG) & you'll be fine.

[MJWhiteDerm]

Another view of proprietary software ....

Well done proprietary software, written specifically for the ubuntu or linux universe of users, would help ubuntu and linux expand.

The reality is that some of the proprietary software is pretty good and it takes a lot of work to find work-arounds within linux in general, and ubuntu in specific, to get where we want to be.

At the moment, I have the luxury of having two windows boxes for myself, one windows box for my wife, then three different linux machines for me. The best linux machine is a Dell dual core machine that I bought this summer. I still can't make everything work on it t hat I like and think that I need.

I'm willing to pay for proprietary software that will run under linux, so i can convince my wife, and others, to make the jump away from Microsuck.

Michael

[Kingsley]

Kingsley, I think there are many advantages. The main one is the one that you came to Ubuntu/Linux: usually IP isn't supported but by the owner and you really don't know what propriety software installs in your box. Take this to its highest practical SO (windows) and you get virus/adware/problems/etc. And the main reason: imagine thar the wheel was copyrighted...
Curiosity brought me to Linux, not problems with proprietary software. I rarely had trouble when I ran XP or when I run Vista now. Don't get me wrong though, I'm happy with Ubuntu as my primary OS. I just don't see what's wrong with IP software if some of it is better than the free alternative.

[ruibernardo]

OK, lets focus on this thread, I don't want to discuss who can run Windows without virus and without paying for any firewall or other propriety stuff (it's almost impossible, but lets go forward).

The (hard) point here is what can be done with free software only.

Any free linux user can help here? Please?

[brentoboy]

you might as well call it gnubuntu

really, if freedom focus is your goal, use debian.
Debian is the closest distro that I am aware of to being free as in freedom, gnu style, no exceptions. (unless you include a non-free repo)

and, debian is close enough to being like ubuntu, that it doesnt seem to make much difference to have a gnubuntu (or gobuntu)

one might say that ubuntu is more friendly to those who want a regular release cycle, but debian testing isnt completely out of date.

[Dimitriid]

Great proof of concept, being too "hard" to get used to only use truly free software is something ideally we should at least try. After all we do tell people to not be afraid of the CLI, why be of afraid of truly free OS then?

[wolfen69]

Another view of proprietary software ....

Well done proprietary software, written specifically for the ubuntu or linux universe of users, would help ubuntu and linux expand.

The reality is that some of the proprietary software is pretty good and it takes a lot of work to find work-arounds within linux in general, and ubuntu in specific, to get where we want to be.

At the moment, I have the luxury of having two windows boxes for myself, one windows box for my wife, then three different linux machines for me. The best linux machine is a Dell dual core machine that I bought this summer. I still can't make everything work on it t hat I like and think that I need.

I'm willing to pay for proprietary software that will run under linux, so i can convince my wife, and others, to make the jump away from Microsuck.

Michael


2 windows boxes are an advantage? wow.

[wolfen69]

it comes from within...... you either bleed linux, or not.

[tbroderick]

really, if freedom focus is your goal, use debian.
Debian is the closest distro that I am aware of to being free as in freedom, gnu style, no exceptions. (unless you include a non-free repo)


There is an exception with Debian and Ubuntu when it comes to source-less firmware in the Linux kernel.

[angryfirelord]

Great proof of concept, being too "hard" to get used to only use truly free software is something ideally we should at least try. After all we do tell people to not be afraid of the CLI, why be of afraid of truly free OS then?
Because I wouldn't have wifi and 3D acceleration. ;-) I'm not giving that that up just to be "free".

[salsafyren]

IP? Does that stand for Intellectual Property?

If so, then this is a term invented by Microsoft and does not exist.

Correct terms are: patent, copyright, trademark.

[sumguy231]

Because I wouldn't have wifi and 3D acceleration. I'm not giving that that up just to be "free".
Same here, but with the added bonus that I'm tied to mp3 since I own an iPod. I love .ogg, but nothing (good) plays it.

[ruibernardo]

I have nvidia, but I know there is a open source driver for ATI graphic cards (radeon). So, it's possible to use 3d hardware without propriety software.

I've posted here that Gnash is an alternative to Adobe Flash Player. I did install GStreamer-ugly package from universe repos, and YouTube as worked very well.

Can anybody can post here some others free alternatives to propriety software?

[stmiller]

really, if freedom focus is your goal, use debian.


No kidding. The Debian police are infamously hostile towards anything that is remotely non-free, etc.

Gobuntu just doesn't make sense to me, as I see Ubuntu as:

Debian unstable (newer packages) + all the non-free goodies = happy desktop distro

[ubuntu27]

Gobuntu? There is another distro with similar goals called
gNewSense (http://www.gnewsense.org/)

in this mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gobuntu-devel/2007-July/000042.html), they say that gubuntu is better in the long run because there is more development power than gNewSense.

As for people who say that proprietary is good because it provides income to families. YOU CAN SELL FREE SOFTRWARE, the GPL allows it. in fact, it encourages to sell it, but always remind the end-user that they have the right to modify, make a copy, and distribute them.

Source (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/):

What is Free Software? (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html)

Selling Free Software is OK! (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html)

Why Software Should Not Have Owners (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html)

[sumguy231]

I have nvidia, but I know there is a open source driver for ATI graphic cards (radeon). So, it's possible to use 3d hardware without propriety software.
There's an open-source nvidia driver too (Ubuntu comes with it), but it doesn't actually do hardware acceleration. I have a feeling the ati one might be similar. The only open-source video driver I've heard of actually working well at the moment is the one for Intel integrated graphics chipsets.
The good news is that there's a promising project called nouveau to create a decent open-source Nvidia driver.

[ruibernardo]

There's an open-source nvidia driver too (Ubuntu comes with it), but it doesn't actually do hardware acceleration. I have a feeling the ati one might be similar. The only open-source video driver I've heard of actually working well at the moment is the one for Intel integrated graphics chipsets.
The good news is that there's a promising project called nouveau to create a decent open-source Nvidia driver.

I've read about it somewhere, gonna give it a try, thanks someguy231 (I found their webpage here: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/.

About the folks that like propriety software as long it is free as beer, look at the last one from Sony. Take a look at the latest rootkit from Sony in this thread: Sony does it again - root kit (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=538843). That's why I like open-source.

Gobuntu target is, like I've posted in the starting post of this thread, is to try to "to push people to use and give a push to really free software". I know that there are hardware that still need to use them, but there are alternatives to some other stuff.

[Anthem]

No kidding. The Debian police are infamously hostile towards anything that is remotely non-free, etc.
Then why doesn't Stallman like them?

Please don't take this as a troll, I really don't understand. Stallman has always refused to endorse Debian... why is that?

[happysmileman]

I love Open source, but I don't mind using Opera or playing Savage because both those companies put time and effort into making the Linux version available and comparable to the Windows version. I also use NVidia drivers but have no idea how nice they are, just know that with some effort I can get the drivers to work

[the_darkside_986]

I do share the sentiments of the distro but I mostly desire just my base system and hardware drivers to be 100% free for both practical and ethical reasons. I wish I could help with the effort of making free drivers but I can barely do a small amount of bash scripting :(

But I can't imagine having all software, including user-space common apps being 100% as is nearly impossible. For example, firefox has restrictions on its icon, and Sauerbraten's code is GPL but not the whole game like art (understandably) so it would seem too difficult to have a truly free system. But I need free hardware because the only hardware that gives me any trouble in Ubuntu is the ones that rely on closed-source drivers (nvidia card and wireless). Also, flash is crappy and I will replace it with gnash when it is a bit more stable.

[original_jamingrit]

If you want software that "just works", an entirely free software system may or may not benefit you at all. When you have free system, the only big benefit is not having to worry about liscensing or legalities. Also, it forces you to find, modify, and contribute to existing free software projects, which helps everyone. Other fringe benefits include:

-the virtual richard stallman is much more fun to run.
-easier to develop for more free software, when there are no proprietary libraries on your system at all.
-you can learn more from your system.
-you get into heaven automatically.

[ruibernardo]

Just an update about Gobuntu and what Mark Shuttleworth thinks about it (taken from Mark Shuttleworth - Lifehacker Interview: Productivity and Linux (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=539405&goto=newpost)):

Lifehacker: I'd like to talk a little bit about Gobuntu. I think it has faced some criticism for lacking a realistic user-base. In your own words you had this to say: "Gobuntu will not correctly enable much hardware today—but it exists as a banner for the cause of software freedom and as a reference of what IS possible with a totally rigorous approach." Who do you envision benefiting from this flavor of Ubuntu and when do you think it will be a suitable distribution for widespread adoption?
Mark Shuttleworth: There are two things that Gobuntu gives us: the first is taking the idea of "freedom" beyond software and into things like the documentation, the media and the content that are increasingly associated with a Linux distribution, and the second is reminding people that there is still some way to go before we have completely open systems. There is a certain amount of closed infrastructure that goes on right at the heart of things: key drivers, firmware and so on. Just as in the old days just as it was a badge of honor to get Linux installed on your computer, it will become a badge of honor if you manage to get Gobuntu working. Everything that doesn't work under Gobuntu is an indication of a piece of work which is needed to make the free software world more complete. I think that's a useful reference point.

I totally agree with him.

[brentoboy]

Then why doesn't Stallman like them?

Please don't take this as a troll, I really don't understand. Stallman has always refused to endorse Debian... why is that?

Stallman had two separate run in's with Debian.

Debian's definition of freedom was so restrictive that Stallman's documentation for some of his projects (which are not GPL, but under a separate documentation license that is redistributable but not modifiable) wasn't free enough.

In the debain definition of freedom (part of thier social contract), that wasn't really free, so they went back and forth about logos and documentation and what not. I believe that it actually delayed the release of Debian Sarge while the debain developers voted on whether or not to stick to their guns. (they decided to impose those stronger restrictions later if at all)

Also, Stallman once applied to become a debain developer. But, the application process was so slow and so elitist that he got sick of waiting and told them to get a life.

I got both of those tid-bits out of a book called "The Debian System" by "Martin F Krafft" (p44-45 and p -- which, by the way, I highly recommend to anyone who wants to know more about ubuntu. It goes way into apt and all kinds of other interesting stuff. I learned about debfoster and deborphan in that book, and they are actually quite handy.

Now, I dont know that stallman actually "hates" Debian, they just have a bit of a rocky past. But, he's had an interesting past with a lot of projects. And a lot of projects are coming around to his way of thinking (take java for instance)

[rplantz]

Then why doesn't Stallman like them?

Please don't take this as a troll, I really don't understand. Stallman has always refused to endorse Debian... why is that?

I went to a talk Stallman gave today. While walking over to have lunch after his talk, I asked him about using Debian. He said that he doesn't like it because they have repositories for non-free software.

His general philosophy goes far beyond software. He says that he believes we should share with each other. Proprietary software is a way to control other people, even if it is provided at no monetary cost. And he's a very strong believer in freedom.

He admonished me several times to become more politically active since I'm retired and have lots of free time. I responded that I'm weighing that with the desire to enjoy my retirement years.

He's a very interesting person. It was great fun to finally meet him in person and hear some of his ideas first hand.

One of the things that is very clear is that "free" has many interpretations.

[pvdg]

I'll try Gobuntu on my laptop as well. I've tried gNewSense before and it worked fine, at least for work. The only problem were the outdated (free) packages from Ubuntu 6.06. This is a problem I hope Gobuntu will solve.
I already have almost no non-free sofware installed in my laptop, AFAIK (and vrms) only java (which is becoming free) and the Firefox flash plugin which Gnash willl replace.