The One and Only Language

[jwhiteman]

Hello everyone.

I have a question.... I am coming over from the windows world and would like to find a language that has Visual Aspects to it but allows me to write apps for both windows and linux.

If there was one language you could point me to, what would it be?

I am used to developing in VB 6.0 and ASP... So anything with commands similar might be the best, but I am not against learning something new..\\:D/

[Lord Illidan]

Programming for both windows and Linux could be a little tricky. The best bet would be java and c#, I would say..

[xtacocorex]

You can use Python and stick to the Tkinter() widgets and easily develop cross platform apps without needing to install other libraries. Tkinter isn't sexy, but it does work well when needed.

[Fbot1]

Programming for both windows and Linux could be a little tricky.

Not really


The best bet would be java and c#, I would say..

Don't even kid about that.

[Lord Illidan]

Not really

Don't even kid about that.

Why?

Java and C# are far more crossplatform than C/C++..for simple console apps, c/c++ programs are quite easy to port, I grant you, bur otherwise, it can get harder and harder due to many different libraries and stuff..

[tsg1zzn]

Hello everyone.

I have a question.... I am coming over from the windows world and would like to find a language that has Visual Aspects to it but allows me to write apps for both windows and linux.

If there was one language you could point me to, what would it be?

I am used to developing in VB 6.0 and ASP... So anything with commands similar might be the best, but I am not against learning something new..\\:D/

I think you are looking for PureBasic.

[kellemes]

Gambas (http://gambas.sourceforge.net/)

[pmasiar]

The best bet would be java and c#, I would say..

Dynamically (latent, duck) typed languages, like Perl, Python and Ruby are known to be more agile/productive in developing applications, compared to statically typed languages like C# and Java (by people who use "dynamic" or "scripting" languages. This claim is rejected by people who *don't* use them, I am not sure how they base that claim, go figure :-) )

Python is very clean-looking, easy to learn and powerful dynamic language, Ruby is also OK (even if less clean), Perl's popularity peaked couple years ago.

Things to consider are also: What kind of app you are developing: web based/desktop app, or library to be used by others? Does your app require dependent libraries? Your team preferences? Learning goals? Industry usage and popularity? Future growth potential?

Without knowing where you want to go, it is hard to tell you how to get there :-) ie some shops use C# or java only (poor fellows :-D - but hey, they are "enterprisey" ), other companies are more open to new ideas.

In average, IMNSHO Python is the best bet, see wiki in my sig for links.

[Fbot1]

Java and C# are far more cross platform than C/C++..for simple console apps, c/c++ programs are quite easy to port, I grant you, bur otherwise, it can get harder and harder due to many different libraries and stuff..

Java and C# are horrible languages. In C, you can make cross platform programs with little fuss.

[Lord Illidan]

Java and C# are horrible languages. In C, you can make cross platform programs with little fuss.

Care to back that up? Why are Java and C# horrible languages? Is it because of proprietary issues? if so, there shouldn't be, as sun opensourced java, and mono's c# is an opensource implementation of .NET's c#.

[Zootropo]

I'd recommend Python too

[Fbot1]

Care to back that up? Why are Java and C# horrible languages? Is it because of proprietary issues? if so, there shouldn't be, as sun opensourced java, and mono's c# is an opensource implementation of .NET's c#.

They force you to make code thats well...non-blunt crap.

[Lord Illidan]

They force you to make code thats well...non-blunt crap.

Why is it crap? Frankly I think you are just prejudiced.

[Fbot1]

Why is it crap? Frankly I think you are just prejudiced.

I already told you.

[Lord Illidan]

I already told you.

You did not. Give me proof that they are crap, and until then stop trolling.

[AlexThomson_NZ]

Java and C# are horrible languages. In C, you can make cross platform programs with little fuss.

I can only hope you are joking and that no-one here would really give out such bad advice!

[pmasiar]

They force you to make code thats well...non-blunt crap.

I agree with you and prefer Python over C# and Java in most situation, but "I told you so" is not reasonable argument - we prefer to use real arguments here, so we can think about them.

...and we had this discussion many times here, last time about a week ago.... Someone cares to link it?

[Fbot1]

You did not. Give me proof that they are crap, and until then stop trolling.

I told you it was non-blunt

[jwhiteman]

I appreciate all the feedback. Is PureBasic FREE like Ubuntu? I would like to stick to flavor(s) that don't cost money yet have great features with functions etc so that I do not have to reinvent the wheel.

To answer a question, I am not sure what the projects will be. I know I will interface with db's especially MySQL. So conenctivity with those is essential.

[Lord Illidan]

I told you it was non-blunt
Which is?

[Fbot1]

Which is?

Both but Java is the worst of the two.

[Lord Illidan]

I meant, what did you mean by non-blunt, and you still haven't told me why you consider them so bad.

[AlexThomson_NZ]

I appreciate all the feedback. Is PureBasic FREE like Ubuntu? I would like to stick to flavor(s) that don't cost money yet have great features with functions etc so that I do not have to reinvent the wheel.

To answer a question, I am not sure what the projects will be. I know I will interface with db's especially MySQL. So conenctivity with those is essential.

Well my money personally is on Java for cross-platform support, especially if this going to be used commercially, and you have a bit of coding experience.

From what pmasier tells me Python is quite elegant handling databases, especially for newbies, so might be another option too.

Either of these have much more community support than PureBasic, so can't recommend that personally.

[Ramses de Norre]

Java is free, open source (most of it, the remaining closed bits will be open sourced in the foreseeable future), has a very extensive standard API and is cross-platform. Your code in java will run on every platform that has a JRE available (which are a lot) without any modification.

Languages like python still haven't got full-blown cross-platform GUI toolkits in their standard API (as far as I know) while Java's Swing is pretty good.

[Fbot1]

I meant, what did you mean by non-blunt, and you still haven't told me why you consider them so bad.

It has a higher syntax to the pure **** ratio. Non-blunt is really the best way I can describe it.

[wolfger]

The best way to program cross-platform is to program a web app. For web apps I prefer Perl. It's a powerful language.
If you insist upon a non-web app that is "cross platform", Java is probably your best bet. But web apps are the future.

[hod139]

...and we had this discussion many times here, last time about a week ago.... Someone cares to link it?
Here is a small sampling of some of the relevant results when searching for "which language":
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=534348
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=533152
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=524685
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=520638
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=530441
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=527761

I didn't even get as far back as one week.

[Steveway]

I wouldn't recommend Java and C#.
They are ressource hogs, big, scary, slow and eat little children.
... well I'm not sure with the last one but the rest is right.
Look at tomboy, how can such a simple app be so slow and ressourcehungry?
Or F-Spot, it's nice but chokes at importing several thousands pictures and spits out errors.
They are both written in C#.
Azureus is a example for javaapps, it's eating my memory.
Python as an interpreted language is pretty fast, is easy to learn, object-oriented, it has good support and because it's syntax is in many ways similar to C it is a good starting point.

[pmasiar]

Here is a small sampling of some of the relevant results when searching for "which language":...
I didn't even get as far back as one week.

Thanks hod139!

So for people new to this, I would recommend to read the discussions linked above, and continue in relevant context, so we don't have to repeat the same arguments again and again (and again).

[Wybiral]

The ancient cult of the programmers has a honorable tradition when dealing with questions like this...

First, we consult the magical oracle known as "Google.com"... She knows all. The key to asking "Google.com" what she thinks is to know what you want... Ask her what languages fit your needs.

Should that fail, we don't waste the time and space of others to ask questions that have been asked 100,000 times, we search the forum and find similar thread topics (in this case, you will find the EXACT same question... Even down to your previous VB experience... Asked already dozens of times).

Should those fail, then you proceed with starting a brand new topic.

I will say, however, that the search for the "The One and Only Language" is in vain. Perhaps you should set off to find a language that is "The Best Language for this Task".

[Fbot1]

If it bothers you guys so much then maybe you should make a "What's your favorite programing language?" with a post only once rule and sticky it?

[wolfger]

I will say, however, that the search for the "The One and Only Language" is in vain. Perhaps you should set off to find a language that is "The Best Language for this Task".
Now that's just crazy talk.:lolflag:

[xtacocorex]

If it bothers you guys so much then maybe you should make a "What's your favorite programing language?" with a post only once rule and sticky it?

The problem with that is it brings about retarded flamewars like the one that started after my post in this thread. If people would actually read the sticky threads, we wouldn't have this problem.

[Fbot1]

The problem with that is it brings about retarded flamewars like the one that started after my post in this thread. If people would actually read the sticky threads, we wouldn't have this problem.

If there was a "post only once" and a ''don't respond" rule it would be impossible to have a flamewar. All it would be is praise and dispraise which probably what they're looking for anyway.

[sacater]

I would recommend C, C#, C++ etc.
Python
Java
Basic
Forth

[Wybiral]

If there was a "post only once" and a ''don't respond" rule it would be impossible to have a flamewar. All it would be is praise and dispraise which probably what they're looking for anyway.

All they have to do is hit the search button on the forums.

[Fbot1]

All they have to do is hit the search button on the forums.

Well obviously that's not working.

[LaRoza]

If it bothers you guys so much then maybe you should make a "What's your favorite programing language?" with a post only once rule and sticky it?

Programming is not about languages, languages are just tools that programmers use.

Anyone you has a "favourite" programming language, to the exclusion of others, is holding themselves back.

It is important to use the best tool for the task.

You seem to dislike Java and Python, and you don't explain it. That is hardly a worthwhile topic for a post.

Many of your posts can be considered famebait, you might want to think about what you type before arguing with experienced programmers. Do you realize you talked about the Philosophy of Python with a very skilled Python programmer? (Said programmer knows a lot of languages, but seems to use Python most often)

Take the time to learn from those more experienced.

[Paul820]

I don't know why people can't search on the internet for the information they require instead of starting long pointless debates in these forums. All this 'my language is better than your language' is getting really boring, especially when threads get hijacked because of it. There is a whole world of information out there just by googling and a bit of reading about the pros and cons of each language on their websites.

Try some programming languages to find the one you feel comfortable with and up to the task at hand, if you don't like it, try another. Most of them are free so it doesn't cost anything to try them out.

No one person has the answer to what is the best because we all have different opinions. These arguments are constantly coming up and will keep coming up until people start learning to do a bit of research.

[pmasiar]

I would recommend ...
Forth

Oh great, I am glad someone else is is interested in this incredible little language!

I did not programmed in Forth for years, but it would be great fun to have the opportunity. I still hope that with multicore CPU, someone will get one Forth core, and people will start using them. Or mobile devices, they need fast and compact.

Forth was first language which I really loved, which blow my mind away how nimble it was... I know it is a long shot, but I can hope, can I? :-)

[LaRoza]

... I know it is a long shot, but I can hope, can I? :-)

Well, this this thread has already been hijacked, so I guess responding this this doesn't matter :D.

Yes, it would be nice, for such a Forth machine. I looked into it (as you know), and it is quite amazing. I enjoyed playing with it. As I couldn't fulfill any of my programming needs with it, it is just a side "fling", if you can call it that.

[Tomosaur]

Hard to say. Recently I've mostly been using Python (because I've been doing some usability work on Jokosher - my patch will be available fairly soon, but there's still a few problems I need to iron out :P) , but I will be spending most of the next year using Java, since I have to do my honours year project at university. I think at the moment I would prefer to do it in Python, but I know Java better than I know Python at the moment, and I can't really afford to go into it with any confusion or ambiguity.

However - D is also a great language, well worth keeping an eye on.


Best language in the world? SNUSP :P

I'm serious too ;)

[digby]

I've decided that anytime these threads start to degrade into flamewars we should just recommend brain**** (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain****) and be done with it. :)

[LaRoza]

I've decided that anytime these threads start to degrade into flamewars we should just recommend brain**** (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain****) and be done with it. :)

Whitespace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language))

[Wybiral]

I've decided that anytime these threads start to degrade into flamewars we should just recommend brain**** (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain****) and be done with it. :)

lol... Eventually people will actually believe it (because they wont ever check google or do their own research and they will take the opinion of random forum posters) and brain**** will became the norm.

[digby]

Whitespace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_%28programming_language%29)
Ha! I like that one. But now all my fellow audiologists think I'm weird for laughing about a programming language...

[LaRoza]

Ha! I like that one. But now all my fellow audiologists think I'm weird for laughing about a programming language...

You != Weird

[wolfger]

Whitespace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language))
LOLCODE (http://lolcode.com/):)

[LaRoza]

LOLCODE (http://lolcode.com/):)

Perl (http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html)

This specific program is really...unique.

[kknd]

Java and C# are horrible languages. In C, you can make cross platform programs with little fuss.

What do you know about Java? Have you ever programmed a REAL application, not just some hello world variation, and tried to port it to different platforms?

You can do portable apps with C, but it would need some good skills and time. Not productive.

I would stick with C++, Java and Python, but if it's needed to choose "The One and Only Language" as th topic title says, C++ would be the one.

[pmasiar]

Have you ever programmed a REAL application, not just some hello world variation, and tried to port it to different platforms?

Fbot1 does not need any of those to form a strong opinion:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?UnskilledAndUnawareOfIt

"people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd"

[leibowitz]

I don't know if the original poster of this thread is still around, but here is what I would say:

1) throw Basic away. It's not something you can do cross-platform (linux and windows, or windows and mac) with.

RealBasic, PureBasic, or any Basic program is just something dying. You will struggle getting help with those.

2) choose another language, based on your willing. If you wouldn't have said that you want to do database connectivity, like mysql, I would have said this: try DevC++ with wxWidgets
Screenshots: http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php
Download wxdevcpp: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxdsgn/wxdevcpp_6.10.2_setup.exe

My dad used to do VB/Access, now he is doing wxwidgets and he is enjoying it.

He is no C/C++ expert, has just learned less than one week of wxwidgets and he is not coming back to basic, I think.

[kknd]

Nice text, pmasiar.

In my view, 80% of the people that posts here (I'm included) bash other languages, and says "my language is better than yours, because my dog is cool".

I will promise to myself to not get into this kind of endless and unproductive discussion anymore.