What do you think about Second Life?

[wersdaluv]

I am thinking of writing a paper about Second Life (http://secondlife.com/) to satisfy a requirement for my morality class. I do not know much about Second Life since I have not tried it yet. My knowledge on this subject is only from the YouTube videos about Second Life and its Wikipedia article.

I am supposed to state the pros and cons of the issue. The issue, by the way, is the artificial communication that is happening in Second Life. It seems to me that Second Life is trying to create a virtual life for its "residents."

What can you say about Second Life? Is it good to write a morality paper on? Do you think, I can come up with enough sensible pros and cons to using such a game (or whatever you refer it t)?

[curuxz]

Personally I think games should be used to experience things that can not be replicated in real life, like FPS' games.

However second life is an attempt to replicate society, but with fewer boundaries. The result is one company making lots of money of a world that is full of people looking for cheap sexual thrils. maybe this is just my limited experience of the game but it just seems like a big money making version of the sims full of perverts.

Second life is important technologically though I think that WoW is better since it at least is got a plot and is more of a game rather than just an excuse to live your life on a computer.

Please note I am not a player of either games, but have used both just to see what they are like :)

[wersdaluv]

Is that so? Second Life is full of flirting?

[@trophy]

Yeah I think SL is to the Internet now what AOL chat rooms were to the Internet 10 years ago. It's alarmingly well suited to becoming addictive for those who are susceptible to such things, which is of course why it's making truckloads of cash.
If you're going to be going at it from the morality angle, you might try looking at the fact that the place offers anonymous sexual encounters with avatars that represent real people around the world. Which, if you're involved with someone in Real Life, I would call cheating.
Also, the place is crawling with furries.

[wersdaluv]

Yeah I think SL is to the Internet now what AOL chat rooms were to the Internet 10 years ago. It's alarmingly well suited to becoming addictive for those who are susceptible to such things, which is of course why it's making truckloads of cash.
If you're going to be going at it from the morality angle, you might try looking at the fact that the place offers anonymous sexual encounters with avatars that represent real people around the world. Which, if you're involved with someone in Real Life, I would call cheating.
Also, the place is crawling with furries.

Hmmm...

Thanks for that!

:KS

[curuxz]

if you really wana get a feel for it, setup a free male avatar and walk around for a couple of hours, then try it again with a female one.


Just watch how quickly and how many people try and have sex with you, if there are nicer parts of the game then they are for paying customers who hide deep within the system...

[wersdaluv]

if you really wana get a feel for it, setup a free male avatar and walk around for a couple of hours, then try it again with a female one.


Just watch how quickly and how many people try and have sex with you, if there are nicer parts of the game then they are for paying customers who hide deep within the system...

You can engage into sexual intercourse in that game (or whatever you call it)? How does the intercourse look like? Does it look realistic or sensored or whatever? You mean, Linden actually created graphics for intercourse?

Linden does not ban activities like that?

[tcpip4lyfe]

Second Life is nothing more then pyramid schemes and porn. I played it for a week and had the only social interaction I had was when I went into a night club in a giant bee outfit I got for free and flew around the room until I got banned. The interface is clunky and it's hard to do anything in the game. Unless they have a big overhaul, this game will never be big. They boast 8 million account or something but in my time playing it, I would venture to guess that maybe (MAYBE) 10,000 people are online at anyone time.

[tcpip4lyfe]

You can engage into sexual intercourse in that game (or whatever you call it)? How does the intercourse look like? Does it look realistic or sensored or whatever? You mean, Linden actually created graphics for intercourse?

Linden does not ban activities like that?

Don't get to excited. It's nothing to get your jollies over. Linden didn't create it, users created it and sold it in shops.

[Hendrixski]

I've been thinking of trying out secondlife myself. I just read "Wikinomics" (a fantastic book I might add) and it talked a little bit about second life. Earlier this year I was at a conference and heard a spokesperson from IBM saying that they're looking into holding virtual conferences in SecondLife, and business meetings etc. All this peeked my interest I think I'm going to install it tonight and give it a try.

I'm not a gamer, so the learning curve may be slightly higher, but according to wikipedia, it may not be a "game" since there's no score or things like that. We'll see.

[Tundro Walker]

There's your paper right there.

People are by nature sexual creatures. But, with the risk of STD's, unwanted pregnancy, possible physical/emotional abuse over appearance, etc, some do not find satisfaction (or, the kind of satisfaction they want, IE: BDSM, furry sex, whatever) in Real Life. So, they turn to Second Life.

You should tackle this from a non-judgemental stand-point, and simply focus on the pro's / con's in an unbiased fashion.

Pro's

Due to anonymity, they can express their sexual wants and desires in a relatively safe, consequence free environment, without issues of Real Life privacy violation, physical appearance or other issues getting in the way. If their into unusual sexual fetishes, they can use Second Life as an outlet for that behaviour, helping them stay balanced in Real Life. Going beyond that, folks can express other aspects of themselves as they see fit, too. A guy can pretend to be a woman. A quiet, submissive person in Real Life can show their dominant/aggressive nature online. Some might consider it therapy.
Second Life is proving that folks can make an actual living off a virtual world, by buying / selling creations in that world for tangible cash in Real Life. IE: folks sell their creations on eBay and such all the time. Some folks rake in $50k a year just playing Second Life (it's uncommon, but not unheard of). Second Life is showing that you can have a virtual world blur into the Real World by providing tangible rewards and interaction in Real Life.Con's

Addictive. Folks may prefer their Second Life over Real Life, and lose focus of goals in Real Life. Issues in Real Life holding them back from real relationships (like being overweight, low self-esteem, etc) will not get addressed in Real Life if they can use Second Life as an outlet.
Second Life is temporary. It won't be around forever. Much like WoW, achievements you do in it are nothing more than data on a server somewhere. That data can easily get wiped out, and all your accomplishments go up in a puff of smoke. There isn't anything lasting from it, unless relationships / friendships from the game carry over into Real Life. But, there will always be something else to replace it in the future. Second Life has shown that some people want something like it, so there is a market.
Second Life could promote what we could consider "deviant behaviour" in Real Life, since it's a virtual world. For instance, when Ultima Online went live, Lord British had dreams of folks working together in a virtual world to vanquish evil. What actually happened was bands of Player Killers would jump others and steal their equipment. With anonymity and little consequence, the true nature of man comes out, and sometimes it's frowned upon. Sexually, most people consider anything between two consenting adults to be their own business, even if they don't agree with what those adults are doing (IE: a person may not like BDSM, furry sex, etc, but as long as the participants are willing, then so be it). But what if Second Life is being used by paedophiles to meet up with under-age kids to have virtual relations with? Even if the child is consenting, is it wrong? If the avatar is a child (or child-like), but is being played by an adult (or vice-versa, a child is playing an adult avatar), is it still wrong for someone to participate in relations with that avatar? Basically, do the taboos of our Real Life get blurred in Second Life? How far? And, is it right / wrong (and who's to say if it's right/ wrong, since morality is subjective...usually based on the mass consensus of the group)?
There's a lot to explore in this topic. It's hard to break this into clear pro/con situations, since you can turn the argument around several times as you go.

Overall (my opinion coming up here), I think a virtual world is conducive to a well-round individual, if it lets them explore sides of themselves they otherwise could not in Real Life without hurting others or themselves. But, as with anything addictive, it should be done in moderation. Since folks can (although it's uncommon) make a living off of Second Life, can we really consider it "a game" anymore? This should be a pretty interesting paper.

[wersdaluv]

Don't get to excited. It's nothing to get your jollies over. Linden didn't create it, users created it and sold it in shops.

LOL. I'm not getting excited. I'm collecting facts for my paper. :KS

[wersdaluv]

There's your paper right there.

People are by nature sexual creatures. But, with the risk of STD's, unwanted pregnancy, possible physical/emotional abuse over appearance, etc, some do not find satisfaction (or, the kind of satisfaction they want, IE: BDSM, furry sex, whatever) in Real Life. So, they turn to Second Life.

You should tackle this from a non-judgemental stand-point, and simply focus on the pro's / con's in an unbiased fashion.

Pro's

Due to anonymity, they can express their sexual wants and desires in a relatively safe, consequence free environment, without issues of Real Life privacy violation, physical appearance or other issues getting in the way. If their into unusual sexual fetishes, they can use Second Life as an outlet for that behaviour, helping them stay balanced in Real Life. Going beyond that, folks can express other aspects of themselves as they see fit, too. A guy can pretend to be a woman. A quiet, submissive person in Real Life can show their dominant/aggressive nature online. Some might consider it therapy.
Second Life is proving that folks can make an actual living off a virtual world, by buying / selling creations in that world for tangible cash in Real Life. IE: folks sell their creations on eBay and such all the time. Some folks rake in $50k a year just playing Second Life (it's uncommon, but not unheard of). Second Life is showing that you can have a virtual world blur into the Real World by providing tangible rewards and interaction in Real Life.Con's

Addictive. Folks may prefer their Second Life over Real Life, and lose focus of goals in Real Life. Issues in Real Life holding them back from real relationships (like being overweight, low self-esteem, etc) will not get addressed in Real Life if they can use Second Life as an outlet.
Second Life is temporary. It won't be around forever. Much like WoW, achievements you do in it are nothing more than data on a server somewhere. That data can easily get wiped out, and all your accomplishments go up in a puff of smoke. There isn't anything lasting from it, unless relationships / friendships from the game carry over into Real Life. But, there will always be something else to replace it in the future. Second Life has shown that some people want something like it, so there is a market.
Second Life could promote what we could consider "deviant behaviour" in Real Life, since it's a virtual world. For instance, when Ultima Online went live, Lord British had dreams of folks working together in a virtual world to vanquish evil. What actually happened was bands of Player Killers would jump others and steal their equipment. With anonymity and little consequence, the true nature of man comes out, and sometimes it's frowned upon. Sexually, most people consider anything between two consenting adults to be their own business, even if they don't agree with what those adults are doing (IE: a person may not like BDSM, furry sex, etc, but as long as the participants are willing, then so be it). But what if Second Life is being used by paedophiles to meet up with under-age kids to have virtual relations with? Even if the child is consenting, is it wrong? If the avatar is a child (or child-like), but is being played by an adult (or vice-versa, a child is playing an adult avatar), is it still wrong for someone to participate in relations with that avatar? Basically, do the taboos of our Real Life get blurred in Second Life? How far? And, is it right / wrong (and who's to say if it's right/ wrong, since morality is subjective...usually based on the mass consensus of the group)?
There's a lot to explore in this topic. It's hard to break this into clear pro/con situations, since you can turn the argument around several times as you go.

Overall (my opinion coming up here), I think a virtual world is conducive to a well-round individual, if it lets them explore sides of themselves they otherwise could not in Real Life without hurting others or themselves. But, as with anything addictive, it should be done in moderation. Since folks can (although it's uncommon) make a living off of Second Life, can we really consider it "a game" anymore? This should be a pretty interesting paper.


Wow. Thanks, dude. Im'ma quote you. In my paper, you will see "As Tundro Walker said,...." LOL

Thanks again for the arguments.

:KS

[curuxz]

tundro seems to have the right idea, i too would recommend if you really want to do something on second life to do it on the what happens when people are set free without real world constraints. I suppose the level of porn on the internet further backs up tundro's point that people are sexual creatures and just want to enjoy that...

still i dont think 2nd life is a game, even by mmorpg standards, its more of a simulation.

[jrusso2]

Second Life is totally boring and dumb game. You can't stab anyone or steal their stuff, you can't do anything but walk around in dumb outfits.

So boring I don't get it.

[Hendrixski]

apparently there's a SL package for Ubuntu through getdeb
http://www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=1240
has anybody tried this one? I've been interested in trying SecondLife and this looks like it'd be an easy way to do so.

I want to see why so many businesses are getting so excited about this thing.

[wersdaluv]

apparently there's a SL package for Ubuntu through getdeb
http://www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=1240
has anybody tried this one? I've been interested in trying SecondLife and this looks like it'd be an easy way to do so.

I want to see why so many businesses are getting so excited about this thing.

I downloaded and installed the deb from getdeb. Right now, my Second Life install is running and I am about to create an account....

[forrestcupp]

Second Life is a way for people to virtually enact their fantasies (not just sexual) seemingly without the repercussions that come from doing those things in reality. It's not just actions that are unhealthy, but the desire to perform the action as well. What people don't realize is that it still causes mental and emotional attachments and bondages that can bring depression.

It can be an addiction where people pour their time and money into their virtual life and let their real life go to the dumps. You can even purchase virtual real estate and build a house, only the money you purchase it with is real, not virtual.

There is nothing that can compare with real relationships and interaction in the real world. People hide behind their computer screen too much, and it is unhealthy.

[ell02]

its what u want it to be.first impression was yes sex was everywhere,thats what people made.now i hang out with my rl wife who is my sl wife.we have made many good chat friends from all over the world,its quite interesting and fun at same time.i am not there to please anothers wife and ignore my own.if you want to be a sleeze you can be,but you miss much fun and learning,creating,ect.. again it's what you make it to be.

[wersdaluv]

Second Life is a way for people to virtually enact their fantasies (not just sexual) seemingly without the repercussions that come from doing those things in reality. It's not just actions that are unhealthy, but the desire to perform the action as well. What people don't realize is that it still causes mental and emotional attachments and bondages that can bring depression.

It can be an addiction where people pour their time and money into their virtual life and let their real life go to the dumps. You can even purchase virtual real estate and build a house, only the money you purchase it with is real, not virtual.

There is nothing that can compare with real relationships and interaction in the real world. People hide behind their computer screen too much, and it is unhealthy.

You have a point there.

:KS

[wersdaluv]

its what u want it to be.first impression was yes sex was everywhere,thats what people made.now i hang out with my rl wife who is my sl wife.we have made many good chat friends from all over the world,its quite interesting and fun at same time.i am not there to please anothers wife and ignore my own.if you want to be a sleeze you can be,but you miss much fun and learning,creating,ect.. again it's what you make it to be.

Thanks for your input.

:KS

[Hex_Mandos]

As a resource-intensive chat client, SL is cool. It's just a way to socialize (it's also arguably better than text only chatting: it gives you some cues about the other person you can't get from text, like the way they dress, how they carry themselves in a virtual environment, etc.). The business side is a big pyramid scheme. And yes, it's full of sex (particularly kinky sex).

[Tundro Walker]

its what u want it to be.first impression was yes sex was everywhere,thats what people made.now i hang out with my rl wife who is my sl wife.we have made many good chat friends from all over the world,its quite interesting and fun at same time.i am not there to please anothers wife and ignore my own.if you want to be a sleeze you can be,but you miss much fun and learning,creating,ect.. again it's what you make it to be.

Excellent point. You can't just label Second Life as "good" or "bad". It's neither. It is merely a tool by which others interact. You can't blame the tool if it's misused.

Another post said that it's unhealthy not to have real-world relationships. I'm not adamantly against that statement. However, if you take the human population as a whole (looking at it as a bell curve), there will be the middle area, where folks have and need real world interaction, and then there will be outer edges of folks who prefer and seem to be better with just virtual friendships.

There is a population threshold people are willing to put up with until they feel overcrowded and turn on each other. Humans are programmed to be friendly and helpful when there's very limited amounts of other people around, especially for very limited amounts of time. The survival instinct kicks in, and it appreciates any social contact it can take when very little is present. But, when there's a lot, all the time, the circuits overload, and folks can get hostile.

This is best explained as an example. In "olden times", your nearest neighbor lived on a farm five miles away, and took 20 minutes of walking to get to. When they stopped by, you treated them like royalty, because it was a rare moment of contact with others.

These days, especially in large cities, you're surrounded by people everywhere: rush-hour traffic, work, stores, apartment complexes/neighborhoods, etc. It's enough social contact for most, and too much for some, because their inborn social contact instinct realizes that lots of people shouldn't be crammed so close together all the time...it can be unhealthy.

So, some of these folks who feel stressed out and unhealthy due to over-crowding can actually find social isolation as a means to balance it out. But, there is still the need for some kind of "intimate" social contact (not speaking sexually, just personal contact, like with friends). But, the anxiety or annoyance of having to go out to meet friends amongst crowded places may be more than they can handle. So, hopping on something like Second Life can provide the intimate contact they need, but still provides them an easier means to control when they contact and disengage contact with others.

So, I could see a larger and larger outer-fringe of folks on the bell curve liking something like Second Life as a supplemental intimate social contact network while still helping them get away from Real Life crowds.

[wersdaluv]

Thanks for the input, guys!

:KS

I'm going to use them for my paper!

I'm just so unfortunate because Second Life does not work on my Ubuntu laptop and I do not have any other computer or OS. I guess my paper would be full of input from other people since I do not have a first hand experience on the game.

[Tundro Walker]

Second Life is just a 3d virtualization of what goes on in IM chat rooms all the time. IE: folks hitting on each other, talking crap, and generally just acting like they're in a pub.

You could broaden your paper to include all online interaction in general...Second Life, IM, maybe even MMORPG's (which are usually just chat-rooms with a 3d RPG going on at the same time).

Might want to surf the net to see if others have done papers on this already (which I'm sure they have...Psychologists love hyper-analyzing all kinds of stuff, and Doctors want to label any aberrant behaviour as being a "disease" these days to prescribe pills for). They may pique your interest, and put you in a different direction then you originally intended to go. Or, at least provide some good citation material.

[vexorian]

I prefer not to provide all my identity details unless it is perfectly necessary. I could never test second life because of this since it seems that if you gave false information you may even be prosecuted. Quite too much problem for a game...

[the_darkside_986]

The last time I tried to play it--it was a wreck. It takes too long to load the areas and it crashes all the time. The only thing I could do is walk around and hit invisible walls near restricted areas. Maybe they've improved the alpha-stage Linux client since then but I think I need a fiber-optic connection and a 500-core CPU to avoid having to wait 30 minutes to completely load the areas. Also, the collision detection is just horrible and I fell through the ground all the time.

[swoll1980]

I tried it for the first time today and became a virtual bum asking everyone i met for a dollar it seems I can become rich just bumming money of people

[swoll1980]

The last time I tried to play it--it was a wreck. It takes too long to load the areas and it crashes all the time. The only thing I could do is walk around and hit invisible walls near restricted areas. Maybe they've improved the alpha-stage Linux client since then but I think I need a fiber-optic connection and a 500-core CPU to avoid having to wait 30 minutes to completely load the areas. Also, the collision detection is just horrible and I fell through the ground all the time.

I could not get linux alpha to work I had to install it on windows partition

[PartisanEntity]

I have not played it so maybe I do not know what I am talking about, however, I find the hype and enthusiasm about it a bit sad and childish. People are taking gaming too seriously nowadays, especially games that attempt to mimic real life and offer some kind of escape.

Also when I hear about companies setting up an online version of themselves in the game and others trying to offer services then I just feel like humanity is taking a wrong turn.

[wersdaluv]

I am typing my paper right now. I am going to finish it within the day, and I'm going to post the final output here.

:KS

[derekr44]

SL = Joke

Chock full of pervs and someone wanting a break from reality. I laugh at how some news sites will boast at how much money is being made and how it's growing... yet I know VERY few people who actually know what it even is.

[KillMyBrain]

I haven't played it too much, only got a glimpse of it.

It looks pretty nifty....as far as the world and what you can do in it in general.

I dont have an account...but I've tried to do so and it's a bit difficult. haha

[ashenrose]

Second Life Is a lot of fun. Sure, you get the sex area's and the occasional pervert or griefer(troll) but on the whole Its great fun. There are some really beautiful places if you look around the grid. People have created forests, elven mountains and allsorts. Its a game where you can be creative in so many different ways.

I love the game for the fact that its a good fun place to go and meet up with my online friends. We get to do things that a huge ocean stops us from doing aside from the occasional meet-up. We go shopping, go to a club and dance, and have fun.

The sex area's you can ignore. Its not as if you are forced to go to the sex area's or talk to avatars that are bugging you. There is a mute option :P

Enjoy it as a game, but remember that Real Life comes first. ;-)

:KS

[Bromo]

I have been using Second Life for about 10 months or so - and have no interest, nor have even experimented with that virtual Sex - though it is there.

I have been involved in:

1. A Quaker Church holding weekly services in SL
2. A democratically governed region (got elected to their council)
3. Met a couple of friends who got me involved in an area doing Victorian Steampunk themed region.
4. A bunch of fnord spouting Discordians
5. A RPG based upon Frank Herbert's Dune
6. A Star Wars Jedi group who train for FPS like action with light sabers (not to mention a lot of RPG areas themed as Star Wars)
7. Star Trek areas in which I got involved in a Vulcan group who were RPG "at war with the borg"
8. Built a few castles and helped design and build an entire region

So ... while there is a lot of inane chat and simulated Sex, there is a lot that is not. Because you get to be a content creator with the tools (scripts, textures, shape sculpting) there is a lot to do that is a lot more enjoyable than the silliness that is cyber sex.

Oh, yes, there are quite a few furries. :lolflag:

And as long as you realize your real life comes first, I think it can be harmless fun!

[fatality_uk]

Chock full of pervs and someone wanting a break from reality.

WHAT!!! Hell, have I been missing out on all this?
Off to get an account right now? :)

[sloggerkhan]

I tried it a while ago because my university bought an island. I didn't really get the point of it. The interface was akward, and about all there seemed to be to do what get virtual stuff and sell virtual stuff. Now some of the things other posters have done sound kind of fun, but it's sure not obvious to a newb how to do them or get incolved, and I had no interest in talking to random peoples. I was also frusterated that I couldn't get mny guy to have the clothes and such that I wanted because it was just confusing. I think they wanted you to pay to upload textures and I couldn't tell how to make them yourself, etc.

[blithen]

Personally I think games should be used to experience things that can not be replicated in real life, like FPS' games.

However second life is an attempt to replicate society, but with fewer boundaries. The result is one company making lots of money of a world that is full of people looking for cheap sexual thrils. maybe this is just my limited experience of the game but it just seems like a big money making version of the sims full of perverts.

Second life is important technologically though I think that WoW is better since it at least is got a plot and is more of a game rather than just an excuse to live your life on a computer.

Please note I am not a player of either games, but have used both just to see what they are like :)

My favorite genre :D
Anywho I agree, games so make it seem like you're in a different world, rather then just live your life on the computer. Kinda sad actually if you think about it.

[CCNA_student]

Why would anyone play such a boring game? You must have no life if you want to play a game to create a new life. People actually pay money for that crap!? This is just plain sad. But then people do stupid things all of the time, so what should anyone expect?

Sin Cere,

CCNA_student

[macogw]

I think they need to stop forcing you to have a super-awesome video card. If it can run Compiz, it should be just dandy at running what is essentially the Sims.