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simone.brunozzi
August 19th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Greetings guys,
I've prepared some lines to explain one idea to fund Canonical and Ubuntu.
Please share your opinion on that. Thanks!


Some Ideas to fund Canonical and Ubuntu

Canonical is trying to get revenues from two sources:
1. paid technical and/or commercial support
2. training and certification (still in early stage)

This is very similar to Red Hat's policy and marketing strategy.

I think that there is an untapped third point, much more interesting than the first two ones:
3. users

I also think that Canonical's strategy is innovative only in part.
The 21st century will see more and more companies that earn money using an Open Business Model (see Open Business Models, http://books.google.com/books?id=-f4XSIN37coC), and that's almost certain. Canonical is leading the path, in that sense. Despite that, some part of Canonical's strategy are very old: the community is seldom central in business opportunities. Examples:
1. The Dell-Ubuntu partnership is good in itself, but Ubuntu lacks a common platform to allow ANY company, even small ones, to participate in the Ubuntu diffusion.
2. Training is much like LPI, RHCE, Cisco's, and others. It's CLOSED. I personally developed an interesting alternative to such kind of training and certification practice; I entirely based it on the community, and revenues would come from people willing to have the certification, at a lower cost for them. More details on it if you ask.

Now, let's see why USERS are a much more interesting revenue source than the other two.

Ubuntu users LOVE Ubuntu. Lots of them would happily share their browsing interests, bookmarks, favourite songs and videos, even bandwidth, to help the growth of Ubuntu (with a clear option to remain anonymous, of course!). Doing such a thing in an open way would lead to a strong adoption, and very interesting revenues for Canonical.

Firefox, as an example, partnered with Google to offer a Google-based search form in the upper right corner of the browser, much like an Adsense account. It generated more than 60M USD for the Mozilla foundation in 2006. I'm sure 2007 figures are going to reach 100M.
That's only a SMALL FRACTION of the revenues that USERS can bring to Canonical.
Even Tim O'Reilly, in his keynote, suggested that “every time a user googles, it helps google a lot”. It's true. When you search, listen, browse, publish pictures and videos, you are GIVING AWAY money to companies. Let Canonical take a share of this Cornucopia.

Jimbo Wales, the creator of Wikipedia, is going to build a distributed, peer-to-peer, search engine, to compete against Google. The same thing could be done with Ubuntu users, whose browsing habits could be the new meter to rank web pages (together with other parameters as well), and note that 99% of Google's revenues are from advertising (10.6 Billions of USD in 2006, something around 14B in 2007).
I've recently started a new project, called Beeseek (the metaphore is: bees (peers) seeking things around), an open source search engine. I'm sure such kind of thing could revolutionize the Search Engine market, but obviously, doing it in my spare time leaves few chances of success. Canonical has the necessary weight to adopt this idea and bring it to life.

Canonical could also build a new del.icio.us, a new technorati, a new myspace, a new youtube... all using the Ubuntu platform as a common base. Every one of them is generating revenues. Users are USED, and sometimes they aren't aware of it. Let Ubuntu be their awareness.
Then, let the users choose where their contribution could go: to Ubuntu, to Canonical, to NGOs. A big part of them would choose Ubuntu, or Canonical, because they like to help a company, or a Linux distribution, that is doing things GOOD.

Those ideas can be a success ONLY if Canonical creates them inside Ubuntu.

ssam
August 19th, 2007, 02:41 PM
according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Ltd. canonical have a revinue of $10m.

Epilonsama
August 19th, 2007, 02:50 PM
according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Ltd. canonical have a revinue of $10m.

Revenue $10m+ [citation needed]

Even if its real is still a low income in today's market, Canonical should try to earn more money and the ideas of the OP are good.

tehkain
August 19th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Well Mark is making a company for the future. I do not think he sees himself surpassing redhat(or even trying to do so fully since ubuntu servers are aiming for smaller and mid sized simple setups while redhat is doing super large complicated specialized setups for most of their deployments).

What Canonical seems to be doing is positioning themselves into a market position for when linux adoptation and vendor sales come about they will defualt to ubuntu since it is the most popular - with that canonical picks up support contracts. The support fee for ubuntu is still many times cheaper then the purchase price for vista.

So when MS starts really tripping(no company can hold such a market share forever, plus their 1980s b model is falling down) people will either be moving to the mac by buying a mac or come to us. Since apple does not want to become a pure monopoly they will try to push ubuntu and the Free Desktop in general ahead. Why?
Apple does not want to be called out for being a vendor locking monopoly. They will either need to stop selling hardware or/and distribute OSX to other vendors. If you know anything about apple you will never see the later happen because their model is based off of perfection thru limited hardware. They do not have issues with drivers for core components. So why would we gain?

Well because many if not most applications that run on linux also can come to the mac. Imagine a world where all MS apps ran fine on a mac! So it would be profitable for apple to push other companies like dell to use an OS that has a good chance of pulling in development that will also work on the mac. So what we will end up with in my magical fantasy is - apple being apple but getting tons more apps, yet not letting their frameworks leave OS"?" like they do today(carbon).

Then the freedesktop will start making tons of money for the support leaders. Who supports an operating system better then a company kinda at its helm? I do not doubt we will see an oracle like situation but as you see redhat still deploys alot more since its their product.

So do not worry, Mark did not buy his way into space by being stupid. He has a plan for canonical and ubuntu.

So if you want to help Canonical get a support contract, buy a system76 or dell, and most of all use and spread ubuntu.

DC@DR
August 19th, 2007, 06:43 PM
I would love to see HP, Lenovo, Acer and so on, will follow Dell with Ubuntu pre-loaded computers, that would help to increase Canonical's revenue a lot

mostwanted
August 19th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Revenue $10m+ [citation needed]

Even if its real is still a low income in today's market, Canonical should try to earn more money and the ideas of the OP are good.

It's not just a low income, it's not income at all! It's revenue (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/revenue)...

Warren Watts
August 19th, 2007, 08:09 PM
I think that there is an untapped third point, much more interesting than the first two ones:
3. users

If every Ubuntu user donated just $1.00 (or your country's equivalent), that would help a lot...

Canonical even provides this handy donation site:

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations

simone.brunozzi
August 20th, 2007, 06:54 AM
Greetings, Tehkain,
your post is interesting, however (my thoughts on that):

1. Apple *could* worry about a monopoly fear only when it will get at least 50% of the market, and this occurrence is far from here;
2. I don't see why, if one has an idea, you must cut that idea simply citing that Mark and Canonical have already their path. If my path is better (still to demonstrate), why don't adopt it, or at least see if it's reasonable?
3. Once Ubuntu gets more mainstream, why can't address enterprise's needs?



Well Mark is making a company for the future. I do not think he sees himself surpassing redhat(or even trying to do so fully since ubuntu servers are aiming for smaller and mid sized simple setups while redhat is doing super large complicated specialized setups for most of their deployments).

What Canonical seems to be doing is positioning themselves into a market position for when linux adoptation and vendor sales come about they will defualt to ubuntu since it is the most popular - with that canonical picks up support contracts. The support fee for ubuntu is still many times cheaper then the purchase price for vista.

So when MS starts really tripping(no company can hold such a market share forever, plus their 1980s b model is falling down) people will either be moving to the mac by buying a mac or come to us. Since apple does not want to become a pure monopoly they will try to push ubuntu and the Free Desktop in general ahead. Why?
Apple does not want to be called out for being a vendor locking monopoly. They will either need to stop selling hardware or/and distribute OSX to other vendors. If you know anything about apple you will never see the later happen because their model is based off of perfection thru limited hardware. They do not have issues with drivers for core components. So why would we gain?

Well because many if not most applications that run on linux also can come to the mac. Imagine a world where all MS apps ran fine on a mac! So it would be profitable for apple to push other companies like dell to use an OS that has a good chance of pulling in development that will also work on the mac. So what we will end up with in my magical fantasy is - apple being apple but getting tons more apps, yet not letting their frameworks leave OS"?" like they do today(carbon).

Then the freedesktop will start making tons of money for the support leaders. Who supports an operating system better then a company kinda at its helm? I do not doubt we will see an oracle like situation but as you see redhat still deploys alot more since its their product.

So do not worry, Mark did not buy his way into space by being stupid. He has a plan for canonical and ubuntu.

So if you want to help Canonical get a support contract, buy a system76 or dell, and most of all use and spread ubuntu.

simone.brunozzi
August 20th, 2007, 06:55 AM
It's not just a low income, it's not income at all! It's revenue (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/revenue)...

I agree... chances are that Canonical is still in red in 2007.

Gargamella
August 20th, 2007, 09:34 AM
I like the idea of making a network, which is not a club like the community forum, but a mainstream web-platform as you said, which brings new users and also money for devs.

Nice one


Andrea

Soarer
August 20th, 2007, 10:01 AM
I like the idea of making a network, which is not a club like the community forum, but a mainstream web-platform as you said, which brings new users and also money for devs.

Nice one


Andrea

+1 :)

We need somewhere for us fanboys & fangirls to meet & share.

frup
August 20th, 2007, 10:10 AM
a browser based system to earn canonical money which does not cost me money would not offend me at all as long as it was opt in. Ubuntu might get mocked for having adware though.

A good way to do this would be to have the default homepage in the browser configured to something with ads, easy to change but also possible to keep there if you wanted. With the amount of people using ubuntu there would be thousands a month they could earn a month through google ads for example. I would hope this money would go in to funding community projects too, such as the ubuntuforums or sponsoring say deluge etc.

A nice transparent balance sheet would be nice to look at too as it would be interesting and might provide an indication of people using ubuntu which is always nice.

Caffeine_Junky
August 20th, 2007, 10:17 AM
I agree with the obove posts and the OP aswell !

I would gladly donate a few bucks for the use of a linux OS

I love free software, but to show my gratitude for all the hard work that goes into supply'n this great software for free, I would view my donation as money well spent to aid a great community.

ssam
August 20th, 2007, 11:00 AM
I would gladly donate a few bucks for the use of a linux OS
.

have not donated already :-)
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations

or my some stuff
https://shop.canonical.com/

Caffeine_Junky
August 20th, 2007, 12:24 PM
have not donated already :-)
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations

or my some stuff
https://shop.canonical.com/

Well I guess I beta put my money where my mouth is eh? :p

Edit: Donation Made

Cheers

simone.brunozzi
August 21st, 2007, 06:49 AM
a browser based system to earn canonical money which does not cost me money would not offend me at all as long as it was opt in. Ubuntu might get mocked for having adware though.

A good way to do this would be to have the default homepage in the browser configured to something with ads, easy to change but also possible to keep there if you wanted. With the amount of people using ubuntu there would be thousands a month they could earn a month through google ads for example. I would hope this money would go in to funding community projects too, such as the ubuntuforums or sponsoring say deluge etc.

A nice transparent balance sheet would be nice to look at too as it would be interesting and might provide an indication of people using ubuntu which is always nice.

Exactly... You're on the same line of thought as me :-)

handy
August 21st, 2007, 09:41 AM
Does this cross the line of Ubuntu always being free?

steven8
August 21st, 2007, 09:51 AM
Does this cross the line of Ubuntu always being free?

No. Not even close. This about people showing their appreciation in a monetary way if they wish, as opposed to having store security pinch you on the way out with a box under your coat.

tehkain
August 21st, 2007, 10:32 AM
Greetings, Tehkain,
your post is interesting, however (my thoughts on that):

1. Apple *could* worry about a monopoly fear only when it will get at least 50% of the market, and this occurrence is far from here;
2. I don't see why, if one has an idea, you must cut that idea simply citing that Mark and Canonical have already their path. If my path is better (still to demonstrate), why don't adopt it, or at least see if it's reasonable?
3. Once Ubuntu gets more mainstream, why can't address enterprise's needs?

1: So is the time where both apple and the freedesktop have to even worry about this. So I was making the assumption for that time.

2: I am not really cutting your idea. I just this there are better ways, like those I listed at the end. When you are in need of your next PC buy something with ubuntu preinstalled and a support contract for 40 bucks. Dontations are good too.

3: You are right. That statement was made for now, while the rest of my post was for the future. We must see that redhat will adapt in the future and I think for some companies they provide a better solution. So ubuntu could be the server solution of the future, but for now they are not quite going towards the same goal.

simone.brunozzi
August 21st, 2007, 11:18 AM
1: So is the time where both apple and the freedesktop have to even worry about this. So I was making the assumption for that time.

2: I am not really cutting your idea. I just this there are better ways, like those I listed at the end. When you are in need of your next PC buy something with ubuntu preinstalled and a support contract for 40 bucks. Dontations are good too.

3: You are right. That statement was made for now, while the rest of my post was for the future. We must see that redhat will adapt in the future and I think for some companies they provide a better solution. So ubuntu could be the server solution of the future, but for now they are not quite going towards the same goal.

I really, really appreciate when people can argue/discuss/propose in a calm, effective way as you. This happen often in the ubuntu forums, probably more than in other situations :-)

Back to our topic:
1. Your assumption about that is correct, and acceptable.

2. But you see, your ways are not in conflict with mine. You can do BOTH!

3. Yes, that was my assumption, and we need to see what the future will bring us.


I rebounce with this: Do you see my proposal as an interesting one, something that we need to discuss on?
See, this is just a forum post, but this is also where good ideas (if this is one, of course) become good facts :-)

Thanks!

tehkain
August 21st, 2007, 12:10 PM
I rebounce with this: Do you see my proposal as an interesting one, something that we need to discuss on?
See, this is just a forum post, but this is also where good ideas (if this is one, of course) become good facts :-)

Thanks!

Your suggestions like corn on the holidays. Sure I prefer mash potatoes over corn. But both is always better!

igknighted
August 21st, 2007, 01:42 PM
Interesting take. I think users have a responsibility to support their distro of choice in all ways, including financially. I do not think this means everyone should donate cash, but that is nice.

I am concerned about Ubuntu having companies pay to put their page as Ubuntu's homepage... a little google-esque, and a lot creepy.

Also, I wonder how much more your "grand community" would add. We have a strong and thriving forum which is full of discussion, IRC and the wiki are strong... why dilute it? And even more importantly, since support would not be the primary goal, why would we limit it to Ubuntu? Many of us (myself included) do not use Ubuntu in any capacity but enjoy the community... so making a "linux community" that is run by several top distros would be more welcoming and bring in a better crowd, IMO. Sure, it might not return as much money to Canonical, but I think it would make the community thing more robust.

We need solidarity in the linux world... with so many distros branching out in their own direction, we could use a common place to mingle and remember that in the end, linux is linux and the differences between distros are petty.

Tundro Walker
August 21st, 2007, 01:52 PM
I think I read on of Shuttleworth's posts that addresses harvesting user information as a form of revenue. Not invasive harvesting, like personal info, but things like surfing habits, search habits, software use habits, etc, which would get blind-collected (IE: you'd just be a faceless "bean" that habits were collected from and collated with all the other faceless "beans" out there to generate data for statistical analysis...note, "bean" is not used derogatorially here).

The idea was to take Google's current analysis, and go beyond just web search/surfing/ad-click-through analysis, and actually see computer use habits. Then, sell the usage data to companies so they can turn it into information they can use to 1) target you as a consumer, 2) create products more in tune with what you want, 3) etc.

Ubuntu already has "Popularity Contest" which monitors folks d/l'ing and using programs from the repo's, and this could easily get taken further without being intrusive or slowing down the user when they're working.

I personally wouldn't mind it, seeing as Microsoft already does a lot of that when folks use Windows programs. (WGA is not just authentication, but tracking user habits as well. MS is probably the only one that uses this information for their competitive advantage, but they could theoretically compile and sell the information to third parties wanting to know more about their consumers.)

So, yeah, Shuttleworth isn't an idiot. He's already thought of this, and I'm sure will find a way to implement it. I just hope he doesn't go too far with it.

simone.brunozzi
August 22nd, 2007, 06:58 AM
Tundro,
I'd like to point out that this is MY proposal, and I'd LIKE to involve Mark Shuttleworth on this discussion, but he ISN'T aware of this right now.

I agree with you: it would be something we could give to Canonical in an "open" way, without compromising our privacy.

Thanks



I think I read on of Shuttleworth's posts that addresses harvesting user information as a form of revenue. Not invasive harvesting, like personal info, but things like surfing habits, search habits, software use habits, etc, which would get blind-collected (IE: you'd just be a faceless "bean" that habits were collected from and collated with all the other faceless "beans" out there to generate data for statistical analysis...note, "bean" is not used derogatorially here).

The idea was to take Google's current analysis, and go beyond just web search/surfing/ad-click-through analysis, and actually see computer use habits. Then, sell the usage data to companies so they can turn it into information they can use to 1) target you as a consumer, 2) create products more in tune with what you want, 3) etc.

Ubuntu already has "Popularity Contest" which monitors folks d/l'ing and using programs from the repo's, and this could easily get taken further without being intrusive or slowing down the user when they're working.

I personally wouldn't mind it, seeing as Microsoft already does a lot of that when folks use Windows programs. (WGA is not just authentication, but tracking user habits as well. MS is probably the only one that uses this information for their competitive advantage, but they could theoretically compile and sell the information to third parties wanting to know more about their consumers.)

So, yeah, Shuttleworth isn't an idiot. He's already thought of this, and I'm sure will find a way to implement it. I just hope he doesn't go too far with it.