Linux Legal Feers

[Omnios]

Im writing this because this is starting to bother me. With all the hipe acount copy right and patent talk it brings up a fear. The legal system can be and has redibly been abused in the past. Though some of the legal stuff is legit what I am scared of is gray water stuff. This is when there is a questionable or vaige legal issue that realy has no merrit but is pursued to burry a competitor.

How this works say you have a logos or stuff that may kind of be similar to a copy righted work etc or even a copy righted work that was copy righted years after the original work and a company with a lot of money start legal action on the sole purpose of burring a certain competitor or developer with huge legal fee's that he could not poosibly afford giving him no choice but to go belly up. This used to happen a lot in the past but not so much now.

The fear I have is that certain corperations may be planning something like this in the future. Systematcly trying to whipe out open source apps, components, and possibly even distros. For example what would happen if today nautilas got deemed as illegal it would be one huge mess. It would cause huge discontent among users and cost a lot of money to fix.

Also something should be put in place to stop this type of abuse from ever accurring such as joint action anti trust movements etc or what ever law wrangling would cover such actions. Anyways Im not saying this is going to happen but the building blocks for such abuse are already being put in place.

[WirelessMike]

Amen, Brother! Behind ya 100%

This sort of crap has flooded the US legal system for FAR TOO LONG! I was hoping it would be a bigger issue in the last campaign and seemed to become visible towards the end, but what has really been done about it?

At least, as you said, most of the trademark and related cases appear to be a thing of the past... but when you see the kind of cases that are allowed, such as those tolerated from the RIAA, you have to wonder if it's only a matter of time before such nonsense starts happening again, and if it does, you'd better believe open source is going to become a target.

[GeneralZod]

I think the next variant of the GPL states something to the effect of "If you use our stuff, you can't sue us" (is this correct?). We also have IBM (kind of) on our side, as they have staked their future, to a certain degree, on Linux and have the largest patent-portfolio in the world (i.e. so if "a certain corporation" [I think I can guess which one ;)] threatens to sue, IBM will sue right back. With interest :)).

I personally don't really fear legal issues beyond that of, say, codecs & decss - it would be a bad PR move from the certain corporation, and I can think of few instances where they would have a case with any hope of succeeding. Most of the litigation-based fear will evaporate, I think, with the final judgement on the SCO vs IBM case - the absolute patheticness of the whole charade has already made people (companies especially) far more confident in the legal standing of Linux and most OSS apps.

The only thing I really fear is Trusted Computing coupled with government mandate that only machines with Trusted Hardware and Software (which will doubtless preclude Linux) will be allowed to connect to the Net.

[poofyhairguy]

The only thing I really fear is Trusted Computing coupled with government mandate that only machines with Trusted Hardware and Software (which will doubtless preclude Linux) will be allowed to connect to the Net.

That fear alone makes me dislike trusted computing.

[Omnios]

Originally Posted by GeneralZod
The only thing I really fear is Trusted Computing coupled with government mandate that only machines with Trusted Hardware and Software (which will doubtless preclude Linux) will be allowed to connect to the Net.

Now that is realy scarry!

[BWF89]

The only thing I really fear is Trusted Computing coupled with government mandate that only machines with Trusted Hardware and Software (which will doubtless preclude Linux) will be allowed to connect to the Net.
Novell the maker of Novell Desktop, SuSe Linux, and OSS was on the list of companies supporting Trusted Computing. So I'm sure that if Linux or atleast Novells linux distros were in any danger from this they wouldn't be going along with it.

[Kvark]

True that patents are granted for simple things like the wheel but they shouldn't cause any major trouble unless a court actually enforced an extreamly basic patent.

True that some closed dictatorships will no doubt use trusted computing to kick unsecure computers off the net but I doubt a democracy could do that, it would cause too much protests and lead to re-election or possibly revolution.

It wouldn't be surpricing if a couple large corporations tried something when linux starts to get a noticeable share of the desktop market but atm I can't see any option that they could possibly succeed with.


If an outlawing or lockdown campaign against foss was successful. Then it would split the world into two digital parts...
USA and other countries with software patents = mostly propriarity software.
The rest of the world = mostly foss software.

This split might still happen without legal trouble with rich world / rest of the world. But then people can still use software from the other realm without getting locked up.

[Brunellus]

True that patents are granted for simple things like the wheel but they shouldn't cause any major trouble unless a court actually enforced an extreamly basic patent.

True that some closed dictatorships will no doubt use trusted computing to kick unsecure computers off the net but I doubt a democracy could do that, it would cause too much protests and lead to re-election or possibly revolution.

It wouldn't be surpricing if a couple large corporations tried something when linux starts to get a noticeable share of the desktop market but atm I can't see any option that they could possibly succeed with.


If an outlawing or lockdown campaign against foss was successful. Then it would split the world into two digital parts...
USA and other countries with software patents = mostly propriarity software.
The rest of the world = mostly foss software.

This split might still happen without legal trouble with rich world / rest of the world. But then people can still use software from the other realm without getting locked up.

You overstate democracy's chances in the face of fear.

I can see it now--terrorists are using computers to disseminate plans of attack that seek to kill innocent civilians. We must deny them access to our information technology systems in order to disrupt their organization and thwart their plots.

Patriotic music plays. Flags wave. The citizenry are urged to stand behind their leadership during a time of great trial and crisis.

Democracy has to work very hard not to slide into despotism.

[maruchan]

Patriotic music plays. Flags wave.

I salute the flag, cry a bit, and think about everything that's good about the world, and those who have lost their lives while trying to make it a better place (soldiers, scientists, religious clerics, and politicians can do *some* good, you know)


The citizenry are urged to stand behind their leadership during a time of great trial and crisis.

...and I decide whether I want to do that, then I go home and use Ubuntu happily.

Giving heed to your fears all day just means you get less sleep at night.

[Spoofhound]

The only thing I really fear is Trusted Computing coupled with government mandate that only machines with Trusted Hardware and Software (which will doubtless preclude Linux) will be allowed to connect to the Net.

This is a scary scenario. However, if governments were to take a stand on what "trusted" really means and how it can be achieved, this would I believe work in favour of the foss case. Unfortunately ths closed source camp is united by one of the strongest and oldest human drivers - profit. And in a match up between democracy & civil rights and profit, profit is always going to have a big advantage

[KiwiNZ]

[QUOTE=GeneralZod]I think the next variant of the GPL states something to the effect of "If you use our stuff, you can't sue us" (is this correct?).

You can put into licences and agreements anything you like but if it is Ultra Vires statutes in a given Country then it has no binding power in that country.

Also the problem is not being sued from within the open source community but being sued from outside the community. That is where the risk is.The open source developers will have to spend more time reseaching patents etc to determine that their work is original and not in breach of any patents etc.That is not necessarily a bad thing, the open source community has had in the past a cavalier attitude to things legal.

That cavalier attitude has needed to be changed especially if Open Source products are to gain greater acceptance in the enterprise market. The affect of F.U.D on Board Room decisions is real.

[poofyhairguy]

That cavalier attitude has needed to be changed especially if Open Source products are to gain greater acceptance in the enterprise market. The affect of F.U.D on Board Room decisions is real.

Problem is anything legal costs money and experiance with the law and few OSS developers have a lot of those two things to spare.

Personally, I want to be a lawyer to just help wage this war. Courtrooms are the battlefields of the future, not the open market.

[Omnios]

Well this is a very old post. But what is happening now?

Sometimes I hate when I am right but when it comes to doing business I usually am as its a mind set.

[init1]

Im writing this because this is starting to bother me. With all the hipe acount copy right and patent talk it brings up a fear. The legal system can be and has redibly been abused in the past. Though some of the legal stuff is legit what I am scared of is gray water stuff. This is when there is a questionable or vaige legal issue that realy has no merrit but is pursued to burry a competitor.

How this works say you have a logos or stuff that may kind of be similar to a copy righted work etc or even a copy righted work that was copy righted years after the original work and a company with a lot of money start legal action on the sole purpose of burring a certain competitor or developer with huge legal fee's that he could not poosibly afford giving him no choice but to go belly up. This used to happen a lot in the past but not so much now.

The fear I have is that certain corperations may be planning something like this in the future. Systematcly trying to whipe out open source apps, components, and possibly even distros. For example what would happen if today nautilas got deemed as illegal it would be one huge mess. It would cause huge discontent among users and cost a lot of money to fix.

Also something should be put in place to stop this type of abuse from ever accurring such as joint action anti trust movements etc or what ever law wrangling would cover such actions. Anyways Im not saying this is going to happen but the building blocks for such abuse are already being put in place.
Actually, if Linux became illegal, it would become more popular because of all the attention. Lots of people don't even know that linux exists. I don't think they could though.

[steveneddy]

Im writing this because this is starting to bother me. With all the hipe acount copy right and patent talk it brings up a fear. The legal system can be and has redibly been abused in the past. Though some of the legal stuff is legit what I am scared of is gray water stuff. This is when there is a questionable or vaige legal issue that realy has no merrit but is pursued to burry a competitor.

How this works say you have a logos or stuff that may kind of be similar to a copy righted work etc or even a copy righted work that was copy righted years after the original work and a company with a lot of money start legal action on the sole purpose of burring a certain competitor or developer with huge legal fee's that he could not poosibly afford giving him no choice but to go belly up. This used to happen a lot in the past but not so much now.

The fear I have is that certain corperations may be planning something like this in the future. Systematcly trying to whipe out open source apps, components, and possibly even distros. For example what would happen if today nautilas got deemed as illegal it would be one huge mess. It would cause huge discontent among users and cost a lot of money to fix.

Also something should be put in place to stop this type of abuse from ever accurring such as joint action anti trust movements etc or what ever law wrangling would cover such actions. Anyways Im not saying this is going to happen but the building blocks for such abuse are already being put in place.

I'm not the spelling police, but...

Im - I'm

hipe - hype

acount - account

redibly - readily (maybe)

vaige - vague

realy - really <-- 2 L's

merrit - merit <-- One "r"

burry - bury

poosibly - possibly

corperations - corporations

Systematcly - systematically

whipe - wipe

nautilas - nautilus

accurring - occurring <--with an "o"

** ** ** ** ** **

But you do make a valid point.

And I thought the Linux Foundation had this covered somehow.

[Omnios]

I'm not the spelling police, but...

Im - I'm

hipe - hype

acount - account

redibly - readily (maybe)

vaige - vague

realy - really <-- 2 L's

merrit - merit <-- One "r"

burry - bury

poosibly - possibly

corperations - corporations

Systematcly - systematically

whipe - wipe

nautilas - nautilus

accurring - occurring <--with an "o"

** ** ** ** ** **

But you do make a valid point.

And I thought the Linux Foundation had this covered somehow.

K nothing personal but some days my spelling is perfect and other days my spelling goes out the window. Two problems I have is fox spell check does not work with the Ubuntu version number Firefox. Two the Ubuntu dictionary sucks when it comes to looking up words. Now if you have a fkn solution please share. some days I find myself writing knowing the typed words are wrong.