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jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 02:42 AM
This is about a discussion I started (and seemed I re-took from a old discussion without knowing it)....entitled: "does forums that rank usefulness of responses work better"?

And it got closed because such administrator observed the topic was discussed before and implemented and failed!

I think that is just stupid! One thousand times is at least the number of FAILED attempts before the light bulb was invented, isn't?

It was also argued that because it was unlikely that such ranking system were implemented the thread should be closed...I still do not see the logic of this argument. Since when, canonical commits to implement whatever a thread concludes? what is wrong with thinking about it, and maybe, coming with a better implementation that possible could be taken by future distros.

Open source is not about software, it is about free communication of ideas. That a group of people, that as large as it might be *does not represent the whole community*, closes a thread because they think is not fruitful, is beyond *embarrasing* to an open source-driven forum.

This complain is not about my thread in particular, it is about how this administrator thought he/she was doing the right thing by closing the thread...that is inadmissible in this forums...

Threads have a *natural way of closing themselves out* by people *choosing* not to write on them.

Ubuntu forum's administrators: you dissapointed me today!

KiwiNZ
August 16th, 2007, 05:03 AM
A link to the thread in question would be useful

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 05:06 AM
This is the thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3196693#post3196693

But I would kindly suggest to see this beyond the specific thread is was about but to, in the future, think twice before closing a thread because "we discussed before"...rather, append both threads but not pretend everything that could be said has been said....

KiwiNZ
August 16th, 2007, 05:57 AM
The proposal in question had been answered on more than one occasions. In this instant Forum Management had made a decision and pointless circular debates would gain nothing.

Sometimes it is just time to move on.

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 05:45 PM
In this instant Forum Management had made a decision and pointless circular debates would gain nothing.
Sometimes it is just time to move on.

Are you serious? Consider the following statement:

"Oh, mighty administrators, please post a list of pre-approved debates we, insignificant forum users, can talk about...after all, only *you* know what the future prepares for us and of course, old debates already included ALL points of view and insight..."

do you see my point?

what is the cost of letting the thread run, and when the *community* keeps writing on it, then and only then, the debate can be judged over...

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 05:47 PM
Sorry, I meant "when the *community* stops writing on it.."

I just got too upset.....please, help me understand how is that only the previous debates matter and not the new ones? is that the message you want to send to all new users of ubuntu...

KiwiNZ
August 16th, 2007, 08:37 PM
Sorry, I meant "when the *community* stops writing on it.."

I just got too upset.....please, help me understand how is that only the previous debates matter and not the new ones? is that the message you want to send to all new users of ubuntu...


Please read post number 4 again.

I said in "this instant"

No mention was made of all threads.

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 09:35 PM
Ok, now we are getting somewhere...

So *your* (read KiwiNZ or Forum Council Members) claim is that ranking members performance or providing publicly such metric is useless and because it was tried before, it should never be addressed again?

now that I re-read your first post, I take offense in your "pointless"...do you have a metric of what pointless is? pointless for who? you? the community?

So I take it, the administrators have never been wrong about anything before...is that what you mean?

I insist, let the people talk about any issue, "append/merge threads" if you wish and then people can *choose* not to talk about it or to correct previous mistakes...

I do not see how you can claim to be a forum about open source and being so "closed source" about what constitute fruitful debate or not...specially when you leave room for threads like "Word association", "What music are you listening to now..."....don't get me started in the pointlessness of such threads

I look forward to hearing from you or any other admin, after all, I learn the most from people I disagree with..

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Just to be clear when I wrote "don't get me started in the pointlessness of such threads" I was being ironic...

I hope somebody reacts to such claim and yell! it is useful for me to know what music others are listetingn to....that is *my point exactly*, usefulness is a community concept not something a particular -small- group can decide...

KiwiNZ
August 16th, 2007, 10:19 PM
Surely in the spirit of the open source community there is no place for a hierarchical ranking system.
But that is beside the point here . This is about the Forum Management making a decision and if we have the right to do so . The answer is yes we do.

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 10:53 PM
this is not about which rights you *gave yourself* but whether those rights go with the spirit of open source

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Re: no place for a hierarchical ranking system.

once again, you go back to the specifics that I kindly suggested you put aside for a second to see the substance of the issue....but if you want, here it goes..the idea of a reputation metric can be as good or as bad as you want it....the specifis I wanted to debate was how useful it could be (focusing on the postive side) when finding answers so that you could sort answers by , say, reputation...

we could aswell discuss the negative side of such metrics, but no, *you* decided such debate was also over, by closing the thread..

KiwiNZ
August 16th, 2007, 11:40 PM
this is not about which rights you *gave yourself* but whether those rights go with the spirit of open source

Please cite where it states in the open source community that a support forum cannot appoint a management body to make decisions regarding the running of the Forum.

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 11:58 PM
I think I am not doing a good job....I am not saying you should not decide which threads to close or not, all I am saying is that that decision should not lead to close threads just because the topic was discussed before, or because a single admin thinks the discussion is fruitful...

Threads with insults, flames and so on, sure of course be closed

jdrodrig
August 16th, 2007, 11:59 PM
And more importantly, such forum and its decision guidelines just like the linux kernel, should be open for suggestions....

jdrodrig
August 17th, 2007, 12:02 AM
To rephrase your challenge: could you cite "where it states in the open source community" that the forum council has the monopoly of deciding which debates are fruitful or not and that normal users have no say on it?

KiwiNZ
August 17th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Yes we are open to suggestions , this is exampled by the open meetings we hold.
But at the end of the day we are charged by the Forum owners to manage the Forum and as such will make decisions.

jdrodrig
August 17th, 2007, 01:47 AM
I see you are reluctant to take either side of the general question I posed: should repeated topics being closed automatically or it is enough to close a thread the fact that an admin thought the debate is not fruitful...you are basically saying, the forum council decides whatever it decides....fair enough... but I was expecting a more engaging conversation.

I quote from the forums policies: "If a thread has run it's course and posts have begun repeating themes a thread may be closed...".... that is a very vague and dangerous statement, what it means "run it's course", who decides? wouldn't be as simple as letting the thread not be read or posted to in this forums...why you need to close it? disk space?

You have a very valuable resource, interested and smart people. Nobody knows when they will pick up a thread in the archives and had a great idea about an old issue...you are eliminating that chance...yours and this forum's lost...

KiwiNZ
August 17th, 2007, 03:19 AM
The decision to close threads is based on a case by case basis and at the discretion of staff.

I think we will agree to disagree with this issue.

jdrodrig
August 17th, 2007, 05:59 AM
That's the best part...I do not know if I disagree with you...you never set down your specific opinion....not even at your personal (non-Forum Council member) point of view...

Anyway, for the record, please make this my formal entry into the suggestion box for the next meeting (open or closed):

Merge threads, do not close them down *just* because they are related to previous discussions! Unless the threads violates rules related to insults, flames, etc, leave the thread open as the least of the considerations you can have for future generations of ubuntu users

Thanks for your patience KiwiNZ...

CU around the forums

KiwiNZ
August 17th, 2007, 09:27 AM
That's the best part...I do not know if I disagree with you...you never set down your specific opinion....not even at your personal (non-Forum Council member) point of view...



This is not the place for my personal point of view. In here I represent Ubuntu Forums.