That's it... Our printers are spying on us.

[sonny]

I've read an alarming news... this is just the worst thing I've heard. I wait for your comments on this (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/003835.php) one.

[DJ_Max]

Not that big of a deal if you ask me. It's not giving out anything remotely sensitive. Just the printer model and maybe a name. This may, though stop counterfeiters from submitting documents.

[KiwiNZ]

Like wise I dont see any big issue here either , I guess those who are doing something they shouldnt may have issues with it though.

[AgenT]

Is this a hardware issue or software? It sounds like software. If software then your fix is easy: don't use Windows (but that should already be a given regardless) ;)

[Kvark]

Not that big of a deal if you ask me. It's not giving out anything remotely sensitive. Just the printer model and maybe a name. This may, though stop counterfeiters from submitting documents.

I think the article sounds more like each printer would have a unique id number that no other printer has. That can be compared to a database of where the printer with that ID was sold, and possibly to who (if you payed by creditcard and they keep records of it).

To actually store the ID in the print would probably work similar to the digital image watermarks, that stores info as small invisible variations in the color values.

[t2kburl]

I think this is horrible!
Say, for example, you like to write anonymous editorials for you local newspaper. Nothing wrong with that, right? In America our free speech is protected by the 1st amendment.
Now, with this "technology", someone who disagrees with the views you express in your anonymous editorial column could have a way to find you and express his disagreement directly to you. Potentially leading to violence.
This is just one simple example of the abuse this technology could lead to.
Think about it.

[sonny]

Is this a hardware issue or software? It sounds like software. If software then your fix is easy: don't use Windows (but that should already be a given regardless) ;)
The implentation is hardware, because as it will print it automatically. Thats why it's anoying me.

[KiwiNZ]

Lots of things trace you, label you, number you, now ....

Car registrations
Credit Cards
Door swipe cards
Finger prints
DNA
Speed cameras
Security cameras
Satelites
Aliens
Mother in laws
Father in laws

I still dont see the worry here

So some one gets to code .....tracks the printer to where it was sold .... convinces the Store to reveal who purchased it ... its a cash buy so they need to
use their security tapes to narrow down who it is .. after 3 weeks exhaustive investigation the give you a name .... the name is looked for to determine where the purchaser lives .............. hmmm I wonder .... yep its logical .. we need to worried .

[Kvark]

Yeah, cash buys are fairly anonomus. Most buys are done with cards though. Even ones that would go perfectly well with cash. The food stores (at least here) have their own cards and give a point for each buck you spend on food with the card. When you have 5k points you get a toaster. People love to buy food for $5000 to get a toaster so everyone has a card from each food store.

What does the food stores win on it? They have logs of everything you have payed for with the card, every little milk package and piece of cheese. Which is useful for studying consumer behaviour and planning ways to sell more "many who buy this also buy that, then we can sell more of that if we re-arrange the store in some pattern".



To be honest I think there is less then a 0.1% chance that we have any privacy at all left 20 years from now. It doesn't really worry me that most of what I do today and probably everything I do in the future is recorded.

What worries me is that the organizations handling the info are opaque so we don't know what they do with all the info about us. If companies and government agencies where transperant so we knew exactly what the info is used for and how then there would be far less risk of misuse. But to make more parts of the government transperant would require quite a lot of preassure from quite a lot of people.

[poofyhairguy]

It doesn't really worry me that most of what I do today and probably everything I do in the future is recorded.
.

Worries the crap out of me. Here in the states the real freedom you have is the freedom to be anonymous. Basically there are so many people that only those breaking the worst laws stand out. Thats how people get away with minor things like speeding, downloading family guy and smoking weed. There are not enough cops to go around.

In the future techoogy could put a cop in every home and car-1984 style. Even if I broke no law, that would scare me because new laws are being made all the time- congress isn't going to call it quits.

Until "everything that is not forbidden is mandatory."

[Adrenal]

The implentation is hardware, because as it will print it automatically. Thats why it's anoying me.
But...then, how would it get your name?

[Kvark]

But...then, how would it get your name?
By looking up where the printer with that ID was sold. Then check with the store who bought the one with that ID, assuming you use a card to buy it.



Worries the crap out of me. Here in the states the real freedom you have is the freedom to be anonymous. Basically there are so many people that only those breaking the worst laws stand out. Thats how people get away with minor things like speeding, downloading family guy and smoking weed. There are not enough cops to go around.

In the future techoogy could put a cop in every home and car-1984 style. Even if I broke no law, that would scare me because new laws are being made all the time- congress isn't going to call it quits.

Until "everything that is not forbidden is mandatory."
Yes, that worries the crap out of me too. With governments working like they to today. Opaque and with plenty of room for doing things behind the scene. The only possible result of knowing everything about the citizens is gradual law changes to use it for total control.

If governments didn't have any 'behind the scene'. Then they could not do that. To force such a change in a country would require the people to put on a lot of peassure. On the other hand, to stop losing all privacy would also require a lot of preassure. But since people are lazy and won't get organized to get things moving the only change we'll see is what large corporations or pentagon wants.

Funny that you mention a cop in every car. Here the parlament is pushing to force car salesmen to install an alcohol sencor in all cars they sell from now on. If you smell drunk then it won't even start.

[BWF89]

Funny that you mention a cop in every car. Here the parlament is pushing to force car salesmen to install an alcohol sencor in all cars they sell from now on. If you smell drunk then it won't even start.
What if someone is going to ambush you and trying to kill you. So they don't want you to get away in your car if you start to run so first they break into it and spray alcohol all over your car. Then when you run away from the person and get into your car you can't get away and are brutally murdered.

Doesn't sound very likely but I like my technology to work when it's suppost to.

[somuchfortheafter]

its called hotwired:D

[trivialpackets]

Like wise I dont see any big issue here either , I guess those who are doing something they shouldnt may have issues with it though.
My own brief opinion on this matter is that part of the reason for using open source for some, is freedom from the unknown. I have the ability, using OSS software to see what my data is doing at a particular time. Whether I care about this or not, I have that opportunity. I don't like having my computer (Windows) doing whatever it wants without my knowledge, consent or the option to change it. This is part of why I love OSS. People get OSS and can now turn off the software means of tracking our systems(ie spyware whatever), so now a hardware means is being developed. I hope my old printer lasts forever.

[macgyver2]

Like wise I dont see any big issue here either , I guess those who are doing something they shouldnt may have issues with it though.

I disagree with this line of thinking. I ask you what's the definition of "something they shouldn't"? Depending on who you ask, that definition could be quite different.

For instance...the American Founding Fathers were doing "something they shouldn't" according to the British Empire. Now, imagine how things might have turned out differently had the agents of the Empire had the means to trace where, say, Thomas Paine's pamphlets were coming from or where "treasonous" communiques between the revolutionary Colonials had been printed.

[BWF89]

I disagree with this line of thinking. I ask you what's the definition of "something they shouldn't"? Depending on who you ask, that definition could be quite different.

For instance...the American Founding Fathers were doing "something they shouldn't" according to the British Empire. Now, imagine how things might have turned out differently had the agents of the Empire had the means to trace where, say, Thomas Paine's pamphlets were coming from or where "treasonous" communiques between the revolutionary Colonials had been printed.
Exactly. But if you wanted to you could always just print out your pamplets on a computer that's not connected to the internet or use an old hand powered printing press if you could still find one.

[NeoSNightmarE]

That...well....suicks. I bet that Lexmark is at the front end of this since they have like no Linux capatibility. That's just my opinion but it wouldn't be that surprising. As for the mention of the loss of anonymousness (cant think of the word) I think that it's getting crappier and crappier with that because everything is getting documented and the Patriot Act opened a lot of stuff up here in the US that shouldn't be allowed thanks to the ppl in congress who should get a life instead of torturing me in mine.

[newbie2]

I've read an alarming news... this is just the worst thing I've heard. I wait for your comments on this (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/003835.php) one.
http://cyveillance.linuxgod.net/
www.projecthoneypot.org/how_to_avoid_spambots_3.php
:roll:

[Lord Illidan]

Terrorists have a simple way of getting around this...

Just make sure that the paper is kept safe, and not sent by post..or did someone mention encrypted e-mail?

So it is a waste of time..

[paul cooke]

Exactly. But if you wanted to you could always just print out your pamplets on a computer that's not connected to the internet or use an old hand powered printing press if you could still find one.

remember the big song and dance made about how the bad old soviets made everyone register their typewriters and provide specimen sheets of typing to the local police... and how the brave dissidents were forced to rely on carbon papers to make samizdat copies for distribution... relying on every recipient to make at least two copies and passing them on...

now here we are, our printers printing scarecly visible identifying codes on every sheet printed,

our emails and telephone conversations routinely analysed for suspect phrases,

use of encryption being accepted as prima facie evidence of guilt even though what we are really doing is effectively turning email back into an envelope that has to be opened and not a postcard that can be read by every Tom, **** and Harriette handling it...

and nary an whisper from the press at all...

whats really frightening is that it's all being done in the name of our safety from TERRORISM... when the terrorists themselves don't use email, or printed matter and most likely hold their electronic conversations via weird spam like messages on little used usenet newsgroups...

It's very easy to hide a message in plain sight when you use code phrases

that's how we controlled the French resistance during WWII... The Germans knew things were being ordered, but they could not actually work out in advance what exactly, and when was being targeted...

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