Blizzard = anti-linux?

[NoTiG]

I was just reading an article today here: http://www.linuxgazette.com/node/10249


Michael Simms: I think Blizzard made a mistake. There has never been any kind of open source threat to any of their current titles, there have just been fans emulating their older games, or in the case of battle.net trying to play their purchased games in a better way.

All Blizzard has managed to do is alienate some of its most loyal fans and supporters, aka their best customers.

Blizzard is definitely no friend to Linux or the open source community. Sure they make good games, but thats about it. There is a Linux version of the hugely popular World of Warcraft, and Blizzard canned it, without warming or explaination, even though it was functionally complete and ready to go, and after a discussion of a
support agreement with LGP. It would have risked nothing for them to make the game available, and they chose not to.

Whats up with that? A blizzard game... Diablo, was my first gaming romance :/

[Stormy Eyes]

Who cares?

[NoTiG]

YOu can stop trolling in my threads. If you are not interested then dont post. I think its interesting and worth discussion.

[nobodysbusiness]

I play World of Warcraft on Linux using Cedega. It's a real shame that Blizzard canned the Linux version. It certainly would have been nice to play a native version without having to worry about all the little Cedega issues. I wonder why they killed it? Did they simply think that too few people would buy it? Perhaps they thought it would cost too much to support 3 platforms as the game was expanded. Maybe next time.

[somuchfortheafter]

too expensive that is bs... they make what 15 a month off everyone that plays it.... i have over 100 friends in my area who are addicted to it so that is 1500 right there...... im sure there are many more areas like this as well...

[Stormy Eyes]

YOu can stop trolling in my threads. If you are not interested then dont post. I think its interesting and worth discussion.

Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.

[NoTiG]

Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.

Can't be bothered porting? It says that they did port.. but they just didn't release it. WHy wouldn't they release it if it would have cost them nothing to do so ? I dont know thats why i'm asking.. what possible motive could they have had? I guess you could say the same thing about Diablo, being mindless or whatever. BUt it was my first taste of gaming... and blizzard is one of my fav companies. WoW cant suck that bad if its so popular :P well britany spears was popular... so i guess that reasoning doesnt work. Btw i dont play mmorpgs really... the last one i played was SWG.. they just take up so much time.

[BWF89]

Did they simply think that too few people would buy it? Perhaps they thought it would cost too much to support 3 platforms as the game was expanded. Maybe next time.
If their worried about not enough people buying it why don't they just make it a 50 dollar download off their website and let you burn it to a CD your self? That way they don't have to pay any money for packaging or getting stores to buy it.

[ubuntu_demon]

If their worried about not enough people buying it why don't they just make it a 50 dollar download off their website and let you burn it to a CD your self? That way they don't have to pay any money for packaging or getting stores to buy it.
indeed

[Caboose]

Or you know, make a linux installer to take up another 2-3Mb on the existing CD's that support both Mac and Windows, or offer the installer as a seperate download.

[Sam]

<offtopic>

well britany spears was popular...
It reminds me the Google's Britney Spears misspelling chart (http://labs.google.com/britney.html). lol :-P

</offtopic>

[NoTiG]

<offtopic>

It reminds me the Google's Britney Spears misspelling chart (http://labs.google.com/britney.html). lol :-P

</offtopic>

LOL

argh i typoed a typo. looks like i made the 4th most common spelling mistake.

[miscz]

Can't be bothered porting? It says that they did port.. but they just didn't release it. WHy wouldn't they release it if it would have cost them nothing to do so ? I dont know thats why i'm asking.. what possible motive could they have had?
Maybe they ported it to Linux but what about game updates, patches etc. Someone would have to maintain it. Blizzard already supports 2 platforms (Windows and OS X) so I guess it's enough trouble for them.

[sonny]

My guess is that they have some pressure from MS, because if you compare all the games that has Linux native ports, and those who doesn't you'll find out 2 categories.

Category 1.- Good games, known by the public, but the company has a lot of contact with MS, and in some other cases they work with MS while doing the game. Sierra would be one of those, and in a more extreme case, EA but EA is part of MS.

Category 2.- Small fun and entertaining games, that few people know about, or the company is just begining to create games, so they aim to the biggest market (MS gammers)

[DJ_Max]

Who cares?
A majority of the people who only keep Windows to play games.

[dcraven]

I can summarize their reasons for pulling the Linux ported version in a single word... "Payola".

~djc

PS. For all I care Blizzard can join their friends from Valve in hell.

[DJ_Max]

I can summarize their reasons for pulling the Linux ported version in a single word... "Payola".

~djc

PS. For all I care Blizzard can join their friends from Valve in hell.
I agree, this boils down to the gamer market, and what users will buy their games, whom main OS is Windows.

[newbie2]

http://www.learninglinux.com/postp734.html#734
http://www.blizzpub.net/petition/

[BWF89]

In the corperate world the majority of games not being released for Linux might be a good thing.

If you were looking for an OS to install on your company's computers heres what might happen.

You can install Windows XP and we'll include Microsoft Office with it. That should cover everything you need to be doing. And ontop of that since your useing the most popular OS in the world your employee's can download all kinds of games and junk off of the internet and play them on their computers instead of working.

You can install RedHat/Novell/Xandros/Mandrive Linux on your computers and it comes with OpenOffice.org 2.0 and that pretty much does everything you need done. And since Linux isn't widely supported the majority of free videogames on the internet can't be installed and run so your employees will have nothing better to do in their cubicle than their work. (unless they look for games on synaptic or bring in a gameboy or play Macromedia Flash games)

EDIT: Crap, that last part pretty much destroyed my argmement

[poofyhairguy]

You can install RedHat/Novell/Xandros/Mandrive Linux on your computers and it comes with OpenOffice.org 2.0 and that pretty much does everything you need done. And since Linux isn't widely supported the majority of free videogames on the internet can't be installed and run so your employees will have nothing better to do in their cubicle than their work. (unless they look for games on synaptic or bring in a gameboy or play Macromedia Flash games)


No it doesn't. Employees don't get passwords. Simple as that.

[sonny]

Although gamming is one part of the use of a PC, that's why that all the decision from the gaming industry concerns us (the linux community), because one of the most common questions when you want someone to switch is "Am I gonna still be able to play all my games?". Some of the Linux users have to dual boot for some reason, and my guess is that 70% do so because of a game (or games), the 25%is about a specific program they can't get rid of (the school/work uses the program, etc.), and the last 5% is just because they have to interact with windows (meaning other reasons).

By making the game industry to realize that Linux users are willing to pay for games, and they are an important part of the market (5% is important right?), more people will stop using windows and start seriously thinking about Linux. I'm a gamer, and I miss all my windows games, but I've decided not to buy any game that diesn't support Linux, and buy all the games that do.

[BWF89]

If I went to my local Bestbuy and picked up a copy of Doom 3 in the PC department would it support Linux right out of the box or do you have to order a special version of it?

[NoTiG]

JUst a random thought... arent their servers running linux anyway? if their servers are linux patching them wouldnt be an issue....

[Stormy Eyes]

If I went to my local Bestbuy and picked up a copy of Doom 3 in the PC department would it support Linux right out of the box or do you have to order a special version of it?

Doom 3, like Neverwinter Nights, requires a separate set of binaries to be downloaded from Id's website. You buy the game for the content, and download for free the programs to play it on Linux. Under Gentoo, you'd just do emerge doom3.

[SKLP]

I'm hoping this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=267450&postcount=12) is indicating they are once again working on a GNU/Linux version.


Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.
World of Warcraft is not just "mindless level-grinding". There are lots of instanced dungeons where you need to be in a group and have (at least in some cases) good strategy. (I'm assuming you didn't hit level 60) Please don't judge the game if you haven't hit 60.

[miscz]

I'm hoping this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=267450&postcount=12) is indicating they are once again working on a GNU/Linux version.


World of Warcraft is not just "mindless level-grinding". There are lots of instanced dungeons where you need to be in a group and have (at least in some cases) good strategy. (I'm assuming you didn't hit level 60) Please don't judge the game if you haven't hit 60.
Gee, I didn't know you had to finish entire game to know if it sucks. See episode 6 of Pure Pwnage to see what regular gamer thinks of MMO (PP (http://www.purepwnage.com/)) ;)

[SKLP]

Gee, I didn't know you had to finish entire game to know if it sucks. See episode 6 of Pure Pwnage to see what regular gamer thinks of MMO (PP (http://www.purepwnage.com/)) ;)
Level 60 != end of the game.

Level 60 = maximum level.

there is a difference :P

and I've seen that ;)

[sonny]

Level 60 != end of the game.

Level 60 = maximum level.

there is a difference :P

and I've seen that ;)
You mean the level of the "character", not the level of the game, right?

[Stormy Eyes]

Please don't judge the game if you haven't hit 60.

I will judge any game I please, when I please and how I please. I played for an hour using a friend's level 60 character. I was not impressed with World of Warcraft, and it bears mentioning that I got tired of NWN after a while too.

[sonny]

I will judge any game I please, when I please and how I please. I played for an hour using a friend's level 60 character. I was not impressed with World of Warcraft, and it bears mentioning that I got tired of NWN after a while too.
Well those are not your kind of games... but you still should show some respect for others people thinking.

[DJ_Max]

This is not a thread about whether or not you like WoW, the game isn't made for everyone, lets just leave it at that. :roll:

[SKLP]

This is not a thread about whether or not you like WoW, the game isn't made for everyone, lets just leave it at that. :roll:Agreed...

[BWF89]

Maybe they ported it to Linux but what about game updates, patches etc. Someone would have to maintain it. Blizzard already supports 2 platforms (Windows and OS X) so I guess it's enough trouble for them.
Unless you must download all the new patches to be able to play the game online they wouldn't have to support the Linux version. Just release it.

Does anyone know if you have to download the latest patches to play WoW?

[kvidell]

Unless you must download all the new patches to be able to play the game online they wouldn't have to support the Linux version. Just release it.

Does anyone know if you have to download the latest patches to play WoW?
I don't see why you wouldn't.
If the servers are expecting to be able to interact with a certain code-set, then everyone playing needs to be on the same page as the servers and as eachother.

[Stormy Eyes]

Well those are not your kind of games... but you still should show some respect for others people thinking.

Don't accuse me for holding others' opinions of a game in contempt until you see me posting something along the lines of "World of Warcraft is crap and those who like it are morons". I said simply that I thought that WoW was a lousy game. I said nothing about its fans. If you like it, more power to you. I'm going to go play Devil May Cry.

[kvidell]

Don't accuse me for holding others' opinions of a game in contempt until you see me posting something along the lines of "World of Warcraft is crap and those who like it are morons". I said simply that I thought that WoW was a lousy game. I said nothing about its fans. If you like it, more power to you. I'm going to go play Devil May Cry.

idiot teen gam3rs
Ahem :-P

Not that I care but...

[RastaMahata]

aaanyway, back on topic.

I don't think blizzard "hates" linux in any kind. Business is business.

If you're going to waste time, work, and money in a product that wont sell as much as it would in other platforms, where the installation system is so divided that you should require extra effort just to cover most of the distros, patching, as far as I know, requires the user to know how to use the command line, and the percentage of gamers is very low, I know you would think about it twice.

Well, yeah, maybe they dont want to release the linux build, but I know there must be at least a few reasons why.

IMHO, I think blizzard should do what ID and Bioware did. Release linux binaries for you to download, using the resorces from any other platform (Windows). You save a lot of money this way. Why not begin with old games, like diablo 1, warcraft 2 or starcraft? Blizzard could get a lot of practice from doing this.

I believe the day a user is able to install a piece of software not through a distro independent package system, but a centralized and universal (linux) way, is the day more developers will start looking at linux in a more profitable way.

PD: please, forgive my english. I try my best..

[Stormy Eyes]

Ahem :-P

Not that I care but...

There are idiot teen gam3rs, the kind who are utterly incapable of losing gracefully and will instead insult those who beat them, on every online game; I was not taking particular aim at WoW with that comment. Even Neverwinter Nights servers have had to deal with such fools, and I remember Quake3 servers being utterly infested with them.

[jdodson]

I don't think Blizzard is anti GNU/Linux. They are a company that aggresively like to protect there copyrights and trademarks. They are somewhat old fashioned and do things I disagree with, however they are not alone in how they have gone after open source project that attempt to hone in on thier racket(Microsoft anyone?)

So to say blizzard hates GNU/Linux, I don't think they really care, they just want to keep everyone doing the same things they have always done(IE login to battlenet only and not bnetd or pvpgn or play war2 in the stragus engine, etc). They want to be in control, which is a pretty common corporate tactic, they have much more money and lawyers than free software projects, even if the free software projects are legit(which they are as far as I can tell, stragus/pvpgn).

Now to the point of a GNU/Linux, and I ASSume you mean i386 port of WoW. I agree with stormy eyes, it doesnt matter much in the long run. I have a few reasons why.

First off, I would rather the free software community put more drive behind a project that would have a bigger return from users. To be honest, the 3 million WoW users is a small number to shoot for. I know that might sound nuts, but its peanuts really. Firefox, the best browser on the market(TM), has more users than that. Open Office, yet again, WoW users are a fraction of those markets. So, to be honest, I would rather us put our time and energy into a, not only free as in freedom software project, but a project that is marketed twoard everyone. Not some niche game.

The freedesktop needs a better digital camera management software package or a better sound system or better install tools, or ease of configuration, or installation of packages...... on the server we need groupware, etc, etc, before we need a port of WoW to one GNU/Linux arch type(i386).

Stormy eyes got it right when he said we need ATI drivers better than for WoW. You hit the nail on the head with that comment. We also need better 3D hardware that has kernel support out of the box than we need WoW.

Plus, how many users do you think would totally migrate to GNU/Linux i386 after WoW was ported? When I say totally migrate, I don't mean dual boot, that is just an excuse to use Windows as a crutch. I mean make the switch in totality? Ok, so perhaps 90% of all the cedega WoW would stop using cedega to play WoW. I don't think it logically follows that all would, considering many people play ut2004 in cedega(not sure why, but many do). However, people would _STILL_ be using cedega to play all the games cedega supports that are not native. So the win in that arena would be #1 less cedega game. Hmmmm, small potatoes in the long run.

Ok, so what about the dual booting windows gamers? Ok so perhaps 50% or 70% would stop dual booting, and honestly I think my numbers are high here. Why? Because I think people dual boot for a few reasons, one is because of games, however the other is because most dual booters dont know how to do anything in GNU/Linux, let alone install anything not in universe. Now thats more a problem of the freedesktop, however, there is still some truth there. Some dual boot and use firefox in UBuntu and maybe got some multimedia working, but by and large use Windows for everything else. So would we get them to fully migrate to GNU/Linux? No. Plus you forget the zillion other Windows only games that dont work in cedega they are dual booting for. So we have a WoW i386 port, thats great, but it doesnt stop the casual XP dual booter to stop dual booting and migrate, so whats the point again?

The other case, are the the Windows and Mac users playing WoW. How many of them would switch? 1% _MAX_. You might argue with me here, and rightly so, however wrongly argued(I will explain what I mean). I have, as I am sure you have too heard the tried and true statement "I will _ONLY_ switch to GNU/Linux if I can do task X". Fair enought, except that GNU/Linux almost ALWAYS does task X, its just not in the way the person wants to see, or its not as easy, or it might be actually as easy and as good, however, another excuse crops up, or they just dont make the switch because they were just making excuses to look good about using Windows. Switching to the GNU/Linux desktop is no trivial matter and it is loaded with headaches and weeks of relearning things. Most people dont care about learning something, or want to switch. I really don't want to dance around the fact that switching to the GNU/Linux OS is a bitch, it is, I wont lie about that.

I have tons of friends that say that all they do in Windows is play WoW. So thats why they use Windows. However, they said that about the last game they were addicted to, evercrack. So, if WoW is ported, the GNU/Linux lasts as long as the game they love lasts, then they switch back to play the next MMORPG, so what did that WoW i386 port really bring us?

Absoultely nothing. It does not add to the free desktop experience of most computer users, because most computer users dont play WoW. It does not make dual booters switch, and it does not totally convert people who said they would switch anyway. I would estimate that porting WoW to GNU/Linux i386 would only amount to perhaps 5% of the total WoW userbase using the port. Whopdie do. You guys already play the game as it is. What incentive does Blizzard have when you use cedega or dual boot? Absolutley none. And in ten years will a port matter for the continuation of the free desktop and the GNU/Linux movement?

I used to care about all games being ported to the free desktop on GNU/Linux, I used to think it was essential. It is not essental, it is just a niceity for gamers. However, the games are proprietary and one could rightly argue here that proprietary is the "old" crusty model of software development, and aptly so, it is. Plus the games are proprietary anyway, they need to be free software. I would recommend playing only free software games, and over time dumping the rest. If you dont want to do that, fine, however you need to realize you will _ALWAYS_ keep coming back to "the man" for the latest game and "the man" will give it to you the way "the man" wants. And at this time, it is using Windows. Because when you play the proprietary game, choice is never in your arena its in "the mans."

[Lord Illidan]

I don't think Blizzard is anti GNU/Linux. They are a company that aggresively like to protect there copyrights and trademarks. They are somewhat old fashioned and do things I disagree with, however they are not alone in how they have gone after open source project that attempt to hone in on thier racket(Microsoft anyone?)

So to say blizzard hates GNU/Linux, I don't think they really care, they just want to keep everyone doing the same things they have always done(IE login to battlenet only and not bnetd or pvpgn or play war2 in the stragus engine, etc). They want to be in control, which is a pretty common corporate tactic, they have much more money and lawyers than free software projects, even if the free software projects are legit(which they are as far as I can tell, stragus/pvpgn).

First off, I would rather the free software community put more drive behind a project that would have a bigger return from users. To be honest, the 3 million WoW users is a small number to shoot for. I know that might sound nuts, but its peanuts really. Firefox, the best browser on the market(TM), has more users than that. Open Office, yet again, WoW users are a fraction of those markets. So, to be honest, I would rather us put our time and energy into a, not only free as in freedom software project, but a project that is marketed twoard everyone. Not some niche game.

The freedesktop needs a better digital camera management software package or a better sound system or better install tools, or ease of configuration, or installation of packages...... on the server we need groupware, etc, etc, before we need a port of WoW to one GNU/Linux arch type(i386).

Stormy eyes got it right when he said we need ATI drivers better than for WoW. You hit the nail on the head with that comment. We also need better 3D hardware that has kernel support out of the box than we need WoW.

Ok, so what about the dual booting windows gamers? Ok so perhaps 50% or 70% would stop dual booting, and honestly I think my numbers are high here. Why? Because I think people dual boot for a few reasons, one is because of games, however the other is because most dual booters dont know how to do anything in GNU/Linux, let alone install anything not in universe. Now thats more a problem of the freedesktop, however, there is still some truth there. Some dual boot and use firefox in UBuntu and maybe got some multimedia working, but by and large use Windows for everything else. So would we get them to fully migrate to GNU/Linux? No. Plus you forget the zillion other Windows only games that dont work in cedega they are dual booting for. So we have a WoW i386 port, thats great, but it doesnt stop the casual XP dual booter to stop dual booting and migrate, so whats the point again?

The other case, are the the Windows and Mac users playing WoW. How many of them would switch? 1% _MAX_. You might argue with me here, and rightly so, however wrongly argued(I will explain what I mean). I have, as I am sure you have too heard the tried and true statement "I will _ONLY_ switch to GNU/Linux if I can do task X". Fair enought, except that GNU/Linux almost ALWAYS does task X, its just not in the way the person wants to see, or its not as easy, or it might be actually as easy and as good, however, another excuse crops up, or they just dont make the switch because they were just making excuses to look good about using Windows. Switching to the GNU/Linux desktop is no trivial matter and it is loaded with headaches and weeks of relearning things. Most people dont care about learning something, or want to switch. I really don't want to dance around the fact that switching to the GNU/Linux OS is a bitch, it is, I wont lie about that.

Absoultely nothing. It does not add to the free desktop experience of most computer users, because most computer users dont play WoW. It does not make dual booters switch, and it does not totally convert people who said they would switch anyway. I would estimate that porting WoW to GNU/Linux i386 would only amount to perhaps 5% of the total WoW userbase using the port. Whopdie do. You guys already play the game as it is. What incentive does Blizzard have when you use cedega or dual boot? Absolutley none. And in ten years will a port matter for the continuation of the free desktop and the GNU/Linux movement?

I used to care about all games being ported to the free desktop on GNU/Linux, I used to think it was essential. It is not essental, it is just a niceity for gamers. However, the games are proprietary and one could rightly argue here that proprietary is the "old" crusty model of software development, and aptly so, it is. Plus the games are proprietary anyway, they need to be free software. I would recommend playing only free software games, and over time dumping the rest. If you dont want to do that, fine, however you need to realize you will _ALWAYS_ keep coming back to "the man" for the latest game and "the man" will give it to you the way "the man" wants. And at this time, it is using Windows. Because when you play the proprietary game, choice is never in your arena its in "the mans."

I have a few issues with that, nothing personal..

The quality of free games is never going to be comparable with commercial games. For example, compare Glest with Warcraft 3.. compare Cube with Quake 3. or Doom
And it does matter if games get ported to Linux. I like playing a good game once in a while, and I don't want to emulate it on wine or cedega. I want to buy a good game off the shelf which has installers for Windows and Linux, and Mac.

I was introduced to gaming by playing Warcraft II. I still love the game but on Linux, it is almost unplayable, I had to keep an old computer with Win 98 to play it.
Warcraft 3 on Wine is laughable.. very slow (even with OpenGl enabled) and with a host of graphics related problems. Cedega costs money and is a download, and my parents would surely never get it for me via credit card. And cvscedega seems buggy and takes a while to compile.

To be sure, there are some good commercial Linux games like Doom 3 or UT 2004 but there are more games out there. Also, Blizzard makes good games. I am not referring to WoW as I have never played it, nor Diablo, but Starcraft and Warcraft have occupied a great deal of my time and I like them still.

There might be a number of reasons why Blizzard does not want to port. Personally, I don't think that there are enough Linux programmers in their employ. If ID could do it for Doom 3, Blizzard can do it for WoW, Warcraft III and what ever...

[jdodson]

I have a few issues with that, nothing personal..

The quality of free games is never going to be comparable with commercial games. For example, compare Glest with Warcraft 3.. compare Cube with Quake 3. or Doom
And it does matter if games get ported to Linux. I like playing a good game once in a while, and I don't want to emulate it on wine or cedega. I want to buy a good game off the shelf which has installers for Windows and Linux, and Mac.

I never said anything about quality of games. I just said that I would recommend free games for a free system, not that free games are better, in many instances that is not the case.

[Lord Illidan]

I never said anything about quality of games. I just said that I would recommend free games for a free system, not that free games are better, in many instances that is not the case.

So why play games on Linux when dualbooters have commercial games on WIndows...it is very inconvenient to reboot when you want to play a good game.

[jdodson]

So why play games on Linux when dualbooters have commercial games on WIndows...it is very inconvenient to reboot when you want to play a good game.

Yeah I dont think my post was recommending that at all. I think dual booting is lame.

I am. recommending people use free games and stop using propretary ones and make the switch for good.

You dont have to do that, I would just recommened people move to a free system.

[poofyhairguy]

So why play games on Linux when dualbooters have commercial games on WIndows...it is very inconvenient to reboot when you want to play a good game.

Actually I like dual botting for games. It forces me go through one extra step if I want to goof off at my computer rather than work. Ubuntu= work OS. Windows = Play OS.

[miscz]

Actually I like dual botting for games. It forces me go through one extra step if I want to goof off at my computer rather than work. Ubuntu= work OS. Windows = Play OS.
So true, Windows is my equivalent of a game console so in Grub it's called Wintendo :]

[RastaMahata]

So true, Windows is my equivalent of a game console so in Grub it's called Wintendo :]
the other day I has this crazy idea of how the pc gaming market should work, but the I realized it was oh so wrong:

I asked myself Why dont games get releazed as roms? There could be an "emulator" (better call it "x86 OpenGL gaming platform") that would run the roms you purchased. This way, all games would work, there could still be patches, the emulator would be available for every platform, etc etc etc. This would make gaming even easier.

But then again, it would be a monopoly for the guy who makes the emulator. And when I thought about it, i was kinda drunk.. :(

[jdodson]

the other day I has this crazy idea of how the pc gaming market should work, but the I realized it was oh so wrong:

I asked myself Why dont games get releazed as roms? There could be an "emulator" (better call it "x86 OpenGL gaming platform") that would run the roms you purchased. This way, all games would work, there could still be patches, the emulator would be available for every platform, etc etc etc. This would make gaming even easier.

But then again, it would be a monopoly for the guy who makes the emulator. And when I thought about it, i was kinda drunk.. :(

its not a bad idea at all really. modular game creation. if the tools were opened up, as in free software, i think it would rock.

[macewan]

you guys need to kiss and make up or get married










Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.

[jdodson]

you guys need to kiss and make up or get married

funniest thing i have read all day!

[TravisNewman]

jdod-- off topic, what's the stragus engine for War2?

back on topic-- nexuiz is an example of a super high quality FREE game. It's not half-life 2 or doom 3, but it's fantastic. Multi-platform, and action packed, and good graphics!

I don't really care for MMORPGs, but I think Wesnoth is one of my favorites that I've played, and it's GPL'd.

But to the issue of Blizzard supporting us-- it won't happen until we havq a userbase that they see as high enough to support. In the long run, jdodson is right, WoW having a linux installer would do no good for the linux gaming market, our our userbase. We need to get standard things sorted out, then more users will come, and we will be a viable competitor and supported by more and more games.

[Stormy Eyes]

you guys need to kiss and make up or get married

I'm already married, and I don't have a beef with the guy.

[jdodson]

jdod-- off topic, what's the stragus engine for War2?

Its stratagus or stragus, I always forget which. Lemmie get a link: http://stratagus.sourceforge.net/index.shtml Ok so its stratagus.

Basically what I mean is that you can take the old DOS war2 and expansion CDs, run a stratagus script and it converts all the old graphics off the cds and puts them into the stragus engine which is a legit recreation of the war2 and later RTS engine. Pretty sweet, too bad the script does not work for the battlenet war2 versions. There are also a few other graphic packages for the stragus engine, some are good, most are poo.


back on topic-- nexuiz is an example of a super high quality FREE game. It's not half-life 2 or doom 3, but it's fantastic. Multi-platform, and action packed, and good graphics!

Yes, it rocks.


I don't really care for MMORPGs, but I think Wesnoth is one of my favorites that I've played, and it's GPL'd.

Wesnoth is not a MMORPG it is a turn based stragey games, but I think I get what you mean.


But to the issue of Blizzard supporting us-- it won't happen until we havq a userbase that they see as high enough to support. In the long run, jdodson is right, WoW having a linux installer would do no good for the linux gaming market, our our userbase. We need to get standard things sorted out, then more users will come, and we will be a viable competitor and supported by more and more games.

It might not happen at all really. We need to be prepared for that. Windows affords game companies locked into the "old" ways, to keep being locked in. CD copy protection for one thing, I have not heard of a native GNU/Linux game that uses it sofar, not sure if you can do it at all. Plus Windows affords developers DRM, something game companies will be using in the future, something like Steam, however built atop wma style DRM.

So keep using those Windows machines, you will seal the fate of us all.

[nickless]

Maybe blizzard gets money from cedega :D I mean the other blizzard titles are mostly on the supported list...

[SKLP]

Maybe blizzard gets money from cedega :D I mean the other blizzard titles are mostly on the supported list...Yeah, probably :D

[ghostintheshell]

(...) I've decided not to buy any game that diesn't support Linux, and buy all the games that do.

http://smileys.inzenet.org/repository/Respect/0009.gif

[ghostintheshell]

From nexuiz (http://www.nexuiz.com/)'s web site:

It is cross-platform, and supports Windows and Linux (x86 and x86_64), with Mac support coming soon (patch to be released in the next few days).

IMHO, if a gpl team / game can do it, a commercial team / game can do it too ;-)

Just my 2 cents.

Oh and thank you for the link! I'm playing this great gpl game :)

[drizek]

WoW was ported to OSX, so was WC3. why arent there native linux versions?

macs suck for gaming, nobody buys a mac to play games. but linux computers are ussually relatively high-end and can actually play these games.

i dont understand why blizzard would support osx, but not linux. there is a lot more money to be made by making a game available on linux than there is on OSX.

[Stormy Eyes]

i dont understand why blizzard would support osx, but not linux. there is a lot more money to be made by making a game available on linux than there is on OSX.

Mac users are used to buying software. Linux users are not. Any questions?

[SKLP]

Mac users are used to buying software. Linux users are not. Any questions?
So you are saying GNU/Linux users don't pay for games? That's Bulls**t!

[drizek]

So you are saying GNU/Linux users don't pay for games? That's Bulls**t!
yes, ********. i havent pirated a game in weeks!!!

no, seriously, i dont pirate anything anymore. opensource software + shopping around for games means i can get anything i want for cheap or free.

Edit: stormy eyes, i love how it says "supporter" under your name. so much for linux users not paying for anything...

[TravisNewman]

supporter doesn't mean someone has donated. that's the "forum donor" title. Supporter just means that they've gotten to a certain post count.

[TristanMike]

It's funny. Just today, with no prior knowlege of this thread, I went looking to find out how to play my Diablo 2 under linux and all I could find was emulation info, now I find this thread about people complaining how Blizzard doesn't support Linux, damn, wish I had of found this before the hour and half I spent looking for a Linux version of Diablo 2. That's too bad to find that out though. For some reason I just figured that if anybody would support Linux, it might be Blizzard, I guess I was horribly wrong on that one. Too bad, Blizzard games are really the only ones that keep me interested, but thanx for the links to the two games above.....now if I could only figure out how to install......

[drizek]

It's funny. Just today, with no prior knowlege of this thread, I went looking to find out how to play my Diablo 2 under linux and all I could find was emulation info, now I find this thread about people complaining how Blizzard doesn't support Linux, damn, wish I had of found this before the hour and half I spent looking for a Linux version of Diablo 2. That's too bad to find that out though. For some reason I just figured that if anybody would support Linux, it might be Blizzard, I guess I was horribly wrong on that one. Too bad, Blizzard games are really the only ones that keep me interested, but thanx for the links to the two games above.....now if I could only figure out how to install......
ya, same here. they always felt less "commercial" than EA and the other big companies.

[NoTiG]

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=45231

[Robocoastie]

the reason is because the big wigs with the money are the ones that make the decisions not the developers. And amongst those clowns they have an unfounded belief that Linux is a pirate's OS since we *gasp* actually own our hardware and operating system as opposed to paying a steep non-refundable rental agreement.

Soon all games will be on XBOX2 anyway since its able to handle keyboards and whatever you throw at it so the battle for getting Linux games is dead because even the windows ones are on their last leg. The big wigs finally have a locked in platform that they've always wanted.

[xequence]

Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.


Alot of things dont matter. Alot of things matter to some people, and dont to others. You obviously arnt a fan of their games, but obviously many people here are.

Its the way forums are: Someone posts a topic. People who are interested in the topic post in it and start a discussion. People who are not interested in the topic find another topic or make their own.

[awakatanka]

I think they can't control the hacks if someone uses it on linux, on the other 2 OS they can watch what is running and see if someone is using a hack. That alone could be very dangerous for them because if to much people cheat the other will leave the game.

Other thing could be that linux distro vesions are devolping to fast for them to give support.

[BatsotO]

Well, ported or not, geographicly speaking, I may never see it original release. my encounter with blizzard was with cracked/pirated windows version of starcraft and warcraft. No original cd available, ordering from internet will be way too expensive and guess what, I dont have credit card or bank account, or the will to send good deal of money to bank in USA. I dont even have internet acces back in those days.
Even if it get ported, I bet It will be cracked as soon as it released. I'm not sure but maybe decide that they cant affort their software to get pirated.

Gaming is an industry. No matter how lausy or mindless it is, some people may still play it. As industry, of course profit is matter and piracy cuts profit. I wonder how billy the gates can get that rich if his OS was target to piracy, ohh, of course by setting the profit margin way up high. But for blizzard, I think they cant sell their software at high price. Selling software at high price will encourage people to buy cheaper pirated software. So dont blame blizzard, blame me for getting pirated blizzard games. But in my circumstances, I dont have much choice, so I pick some pirated games from singapore.
ps : I live in Java, near Bali.

[mstlyevil]

After reading the entire thread, I am surprised to see that no one mentioned why some games can be ported easily to Linux and some can not. Blizzard codes most of it's games in Direct x and Direct 3d. ID codes it's games in Open GL. Since Microsoft holds the patents to Direct X and Direct 3D, the only way that those games can play in Linux natively is to be recoded in Open GL. Microsoft sure in hell is not going to let Linux support Direct X and Direct 3D. They do support it in Apple, but that is a different story. Blizzard will not support native Linux games unless it switches and decides to use Open GL. Wow probally was recoded by a contractor and scrapped because Blizzard thought it was inferior or it was too costly. Thats my 2 cents worth anyhow.

People need to pressure Blizzard to code in open GL and create Linux installers like ID does. Public pressure is the only thing that is going to change the state of game play in Linux.

[Mr_J_]

Common! Think about it!

Do you know what would happen if a port of World of Warcraft was released to Linux?
That fad might catch. And then what would Microsoft do?

If youngsters had games to play in linux. They would not learn windows from the crib and they would later on not know how to use windows in the office space.

This fad could overthrow windows as the majority computer operating system.

I believe that Microsoft just spoke to them and made a deal.
MSFT - I heard you are going to release a port of WoW for Linux.
Blizzard - Thats right!
MSFT - I'll pay you that truck loaded with money so you don't.
Blizzard - It's scrapped tomorrow!
Something like that...

It is the games that keep people using windows.
People don't care what they use, but if they hear free and plays WoW they are going to try it.

MSFT does not go after home users "borrowing" Windows because of this exact reason.
They want kids to start using windows and keep using windows, because later on their companies will pay to use windows.

Sorry for having railed off track there for a minute.
The above post is also good! Makes sense too.

[BatsotO]

What about age of empire, will it be ported in linux?
Wait, that's microsoft game... i dream to much .. not everything in this world is posible..

[awakatanka]

After reading the entire thread, I am surprised to see that no one mentioned why some games can be ported easily to Linux and some can not. Blizzard codes most of it's games in Direct x and Direct 3d. ID codes it's games in Open GL. Since Microsoft holds the patents to Direct X and Direct 3D, the only way that those games can play in Linux natively is to be recoded in Open GL. Microsoft sure in hell is not going to let Linux support Direct X and Direct 3D. They do support it in Apple, but that is a different story. Blizzard will not support native Linux games unless it switches and decides to use Open GL. Wow probally was recoded by a contractor and scrapped because Blizzard thought it was inferior or it was too costly. Thats my 2 cents worth anyhow.

People need to pressure Blizzard to code in open GL and create Linux installers like ID does. Public pressure is the only thing that is going to change the state of game play in Linux.

This what Blizzard says about opengl

World of Warcraft for PC was optimized for Direct3D, so the game will likely yield higher frame rates with Direct3D rather than OpenGL. OpenGL is available as an option for troubleshooting purposes. There are some differences between using Direct3D and OpenGL rendering. For example, triple buffering is not available as an option under OpenGL.

Source = http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-tech-support&t=625486&p=1

So looks like opengl is in it but they to lazy to support it propper and code it so its optimized

[mstlyevil]

This what Blizzard says about opengl

World of Warcraft for PC was optimized for Direct3D, so the game will likely yield higher frame rates with Direct3D rather than OpenGL. OpenGL is available as an option for troubleshooting purposes. There are some differences between using Direct3D and OpenGL rendering. For example, triple buffering is not available as an option under OpenGL.

Source = http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-tech-support&t=625486&p=1

So looks like opengl is in it but they to lazy to support it propper and code it so its optimized

I guess they consider FEAR,DOOM3 and Halo inferor games to thers then. Oh wait, those games are the standards of the industry for frame rates and 3D quality. I guess someone at Blizzard has been smoking crack.

[arpunk]

mstlyevil, its not about that... its about WoW using Direct3D and optimized for it... and yes, they are differences between d3d and OpenGL.

World of Warcraft for PC was optimized for Direct3D, so the game will likely yield higher frame rates with Direct3D rather than OpenGL.

[mstlyevil]

I understand that there is differences between the two. If they coded the game in Open GL instead of Direct 3D in the first place and optimised it for OPGL instead, I bet you could not tell the difference. Their argument does not hold weight when the best games on the market are OPGL.

[Malphas]

Actually their argument is still perfectly valid, as they're not saying that OpenGL or the games that use them are inferior, they're simply saying that for whatever reason they've primarily used Direct3D for the WoW engine. And - like it or not - the majority of games are the same.

[Worm_in_a_Box]

Little that we can do about that, sadly. Maybe all the linux gamers could stop playing the game and send a mail for Blizzard? A native version of Warcraft ROC and TFT would be too nice...

[LateNighter]

Or you know, make a linux installer to take up another 2-3Mb on the existing CD's that support both Mac and Windows, or offer the installer as a seperate download.

Agreed there are plenty of Games out there that you can Play if you have the Disk, and can Simply Copy the pak files into it. ie Quake, Doom etc.

But I've often thought the same thing, Why Not just make an installer that will Work for Linux as Well????:-k

It can't Cost that much more to give you a 2-3 MB installer along side the Windows installer as well.
Quake is my Favorite of FPS and I'd Love to be able to install it as easly on my Linux Syatem as it is to in Windows.

But I guess they just don't take Linux as that big of a threat, Hence the Ati problem, but thats another story completely....:p :twisted:

But as my Dad has always said "NOTHING Worth Having" "Is Ever EASY"
And Linux defently is (WORTH HAVING)....8)

[Bandit]

If their worried about not enough people buying it why don't they just make it a 50 dollar download off their website and let you burn it to a CD your self? That way they don't have to pay any money for packaging or getting stores to buy it.
So true...

[newbie2]

Hence the Ati problem
March 09, 2006
ATI v8.23.7 Linux Display Drivers
http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/06/03/08/2023206.shtml

[public_void]

What about age of empire, will it be ported in linux?
Wait, that's microsoft game... i dream to much .. not everything in this world is posible..

Yep you dream too much. Anyway to play multiple on http://zone.msn.com/en/root/default.htm you need IE. But maybe one day the source will be released and changed to create a Linux version and allow all platforms to play together. Currently PC can't play Mac I think.

[gord]

n maybe pigs will learn howto create rocket jet packs ;)

[Bragador]

It's amazing to see that back in the early 90s (and before I guess) you used a computer to do stuff and when you wanted to play you just picked up a game on the spot.

Now it's such a frickin big industry that people are planning ahead to upgrade their pc for a particular game.

So before it was PC -> game
Now it's game -> PC

I guess people should just relax, install linux and then play with what's available for linux. It probably wont be the blockbuster hit but indie games have so much to offer too.

[LateNighter]

March 09, 2006
ATI v8.23.7 Linux Display Drivers
http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/06/03/08/2023206.shtml

If I'm taking this the wrong way, Then PLEASE Forgive me "BUT"!

I tried the Drivers off of Ati's Website, I installed them Every Way I could find on the Forums to Install them, I tried the Auto installer Ati gave me, I unistalled ANYTHING that could possiably Conflict with the New Drivers Off of Ati's Site.

And those Drivers "SUCKED" Period.
They ran Worse then if I ran the Stock fglrx drivers from Synaptic, or the Stock drivers that "Breezy" Installs as default when you first install Ubuntu.

Any Way Shape or Form if I EVER by another Ati Card, I Hope someone Tattoos On my Forehead: "BLOOMING IDIOT".
And I can Promise you that I don't have to Worry about that being done, BECAUSE I won't Ever look at an Ati Card again...:-#

[LateNighter]

It's amazing to see that back in the early 90s (and before I guess) you used a computer to do stuff and when you wanted to play you just picked up a game on the spot.

Now it's such a frickin big industry that people are planning ahead to upgrade their pc for a particular game.

So before it was PC -> game
Now it's game -> PC

I guess people should just relax, install linux and then play with what's available for linux. It probably wont be the blockbuster hit but indie games have so much to offer too.

Agreed Instead of Spending MEGA $$$$$$$$$$$ on trying to Keep Up with the Gaming Industries PC Needs.

Just Use Linux theres Plenty to Choose From, It'll Save you $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in PC Hardware, As well as A WWWWHHHHOOOOLLLLLEEEEE Lotta Headaches....;)

[clarke.rainey]

Well the engine should be optimized for opengl also since in OSX it has to run in OpenGl since OSX has no DirectX action... so the engine works in both... and I would think that they would have to optimize it even more than directX, because up until recently, Macs often had very outdated graphics hardware...

[DoctorMO]

At least we have to thank apple for that, since games companies see the visability of OSX far much than they see Linux (regardless of real market share) at least they will try and make their games in opengl ratherthan directX, although I still see some idiots making games in DirectX _and_ opengl. like making one game engine wasn't hard enough.

Sorry but I gave up on gaming a long time ago, gave up on blizzard when they sent that C&D to Freecraft, gave up of EA for not caring about the quality of their media (5 broken CDs, no returns, no replacements) and even Jowood is loosing it's charm since i can't play their games any more.

I would only play a few games anyway, Imperialism II, Industry giant II were good games, if only they would work in wine.

[mrgnash]

Who cares?

Ditto.

Playing WoW is something that a relatively sophisticated bash script could cope with, and the rest of their 'top-shelf' titles belong to the past, and to my mind were overrated to begin with. As for Starcraft: Ghost, well, I expect that to see the light of day around the same time as Duke Nukem Forever.

[Bragador]

As for Starcraft: Ghost, well, I expect that to see the light of day around the same time as Duke Nukem Forever.

Oh no my friend. Duke Nukem Forever is in production... whatever that means...

As for Starcraft Ghost it has been cancelled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Ghost#Status_in_question

[mrgnash]

Oh no my friend. Duke Nukem Forever is in production... whatever that means...

As for Starcraft Ghost it has been cancelled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Ghost#Status_in_question

I stand corrected; although not shocked ;)

[RavenOfOdin]

Personally, I don't give a rat's *** about Blizzard. . .their games were decent enough for me to spend a few years playing, but I gave up on them around the time WoW came out. I don't want to spend my spare time looking at an in-game chat room full of Chuck Norris fan boys. As for that whole FreeCraft thing, the game may be for Linux, for those who will likely never install Windows to play Warcraft, and it may not be being sold for a fee that Blizzard would otherwise receive. But honestly, what did you expect them to do? I would hope they'd have the sense to cover their asses.

As for the issue of WoW Linux porting in general:

If they want to make a Linux port, let them. If not, then they shouldn't. Its their time, advertising money, and programming staff.

Secondly, ongoing support of a game does require heavy commitment and if anyone here wants proof of that, just look at how Linux support for America's Army was dropped by their team due in no small part to Icculus.

I don't think they're anti-Linux, just overtaxed at the moment.

[Tails Prower]

WoW sucks.

[GuitarHero]

I dont like blizzard games anyway. Definatly not WoW. Linux gamers should learn to love console gaming.

[atrus123]

WoW could very well be one of the world's all-time greatest wastes of time.

I won't touch it. I'd probably get addicted.

[graigsmith]

Sorry, but let's think about it for a moment: does it really matter that Blizzard can't be bothered to port its games to Linux? I've played World of Warcraft: it's nothing but mindless level-grinding. I can get that by playing Final Fantasy, with the added bonus of a cheesy story and not having to deal with idiot teen gam3rs. Does it really matter if Blizzard is friendly or hostile towards Linux when all they make are games? I'd say that ATI's lousy drivers are more worthy of concern.

if there was a native version of wow. ati would get their act in gear, otherwise people would just get nvidia instead. cause lets face it, ati's drivers are pure crap. They crash my system all the time.

[Mr_Congeniality]

YOu can stop trolling in my threads. If you are not interested then dont post. I think its interesting and worth discussion.

Way to put it-- If you aren't interested in the topic of the discussion them do not post in the thread. But onto the topic of discussion...

Maybe Blizzard discovered that people were successfully porting World of Warcraft to linux using the Wine Libraries so then deemed it unnessicary to release World of Warcraft in a linux format? Just a thought. But I highly doubt that is the case, it seems as though Blizzard has a personal problem with the Linux and open-source community. What have we done? Does the fact that we have created a free, open-source, and elite operating system that can supass Microsoft Windows in nearly every way-- make them despise us?

[DoctorMO]

As for that whole FreeCraft thing, the game may be for Linux, for those who will likely never install Windows to play Warcraft, and it may not be being sold for a fee that Blizzard would otherwise receive. But honestly, what did you expect them to do? I would hope they'd have the sense to cover their asses.

The C&D was for the name, a trademark dispute, the code it's self was written under GPL; some may argue that they're not surprised that business is self serving evil but that won't stop me making it perfectly clear that it isn't morally right or something that should ever be supported by giving them money.

[yabbadabbadont]

The C&D was for the name, a trademark dispute, the code it's self was written under GPL; some may argue that they're not surprised that business is self serving evil but that won't stop me making it perfectly clear that it isn't morally right or something that should ever be supported by giving them money.

QFT :D

(also, Holy Thread Resurrection Batman! :lol:)