Does Ubuntu really hold you back?

[Earthwormzim]

Ok, recently I've seen a post on some other forum where a user claimed that Ubuntu holds users back, and that you should probably use Slackware or Debian instead. In corroboration, I've also heard snide jokes circulating like, "Ubuntu users lean Ubuntu, whereas [insert other Linux distro name here]'s users learn Linux". So, on that particular forum, I responded to the user by asking what exactly was the difference, and how exactly Ubuntu "hold's people back."

He never answered, probably partly due to the fact that the forum is a lot less traveled than this one (and/or he was talking trash and/or he was just repeating what he'd heard from some Slackware/Debian elitist somewhere).

So, I decided to look around on these forums and see if there were any other similar questions posed. From what I gather, each distribution has different qualities, such as usability, security, and speed, etc. It seems to me that, by saying that all distros have their strong points, then this implies that all distros have their weak points...which suggests to me all Linux distributions "hold you back" in some way.

I've personally just recently installed Ubuntu (about 2 months ago), and I must say...I love it! Previously, I tried several other Linux distros approximately 3+ years ago (like Mandrake [now known as Mandriva], Simply Mepis, Red Hat, and Gentoo), and I must say that my experience with Ubuntu has been several orders of magnitude better than my experience with those others...with the exception of Simply Mepis...(if Simply Mepis was so good back then, I can only imagine how much better it is now).

It seems to me that these people are just talking trash. So...why are they talking trash in the first place? Is there really much truth to any of it?

Can somebody here tell me why, as this other user suggested, Ubuntu holds you back whereas Slackware and Debian don't? Can someone back up his points?

Just curious.

(heh...even if you could, as it's already been pointed out, each distro has its own strong points and weak points...so I'm willing to bet that for every point you give that supports the claim, someone else here can give one supporting the opposite...how Distro X holds you back, whereas Ubuntu doesn't.)

[some_random_noob]

People like that just say those things because Ubuntu is more user friendly. It doesn't really "hold you back" from anything, besides holding you back from excessive CLI usage and learning things you'll never want to know about. What that guy is hinting at is that Ubuntu is too easy to use and its not really "linux"... Not that it matters. Only listen to those people if you want to be really Linux-1337. Most of us don't care, we use Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows, not to become Linux experts.

I agree with that guy to some extent though - distros like slackware & debian are great for learning stuff on. But most of us don't use Linux to learn, do we?

[nadalizadeh]

In my opinion ubuntu provides three main points :
1. A simple environment for new commers
2. Stable Softwares
3. Controllable OS

What I mean ?
Is the meaning of linux, hardworking for simple works ?!
No, I think it mean "Hey You can do everything you want"
This is meaning of ubuntu.
You're a newbie ?! -> Ok Feel relaxed
You're an expert ?! -> Take control of me
There should be an OS providing those three for users who want to migrate from windows to a new OS. Ubuntu is the choice.

[qtwerp]

While it's a poor analogy, Ubuntu "holds users back" as much as explorer for Windows does. Ubuntu hides a lot of CLI stuff and does that work for you. So does Windows explorer. You can do a lot of powerful stuff CLI, but make a nice wrapper for it and it saves you time and effort.

As long as you know how to compile, for the most part you're good to go on Linux. "Holding you back" is just another term for the usability vs. user experience argument. Just because one distro can do certain things for you doesn't mean you don't still have the power of Linux under the hood.

[walkerk]

While it's a poor analogy, Ubuntu "holds users back" as much as explorer for Windows does. Ubuntu hides a lot of CLI stuff and does that work for you. So does Windows explorer. You can do a lot of powerful stuff CLI, but make a nice wrapper for it and it saves you time and effort.

As long as you know how to compile, for the most part you're good to go on Linux. "Holding you back" is just another term for the usability vs. user experience argument. Just because one distro can do certain things for you doesn't mean you don't still have the power of Linux under the hood.

I've used multiple distros.. I like Ubuntu.. more because I like to help others transition into Linux. I don't see how Ubuntu (Debian based) is any different than other distros.. and I say that with experiance..

Sure CLI isn't used too much w/ new Ubuntu users but isn't that the idea?

[Alterax]

Doesn't hold me back in the least; I have the advantages of a large software repository, great support from other users, and the stability of a Debian box with an intuitive user interface.

That's "holding me back"? I don't think it is. Ubuntu has yet to stop me from poking around in configuration files manually if I wish, has not stopped me from writing or compiling my own programs, has not locked me away from installing programs from source code, and has not stopped me from occasionally running a box without X at all.

It has not stopped me from learning LDAP, forensics, remote terminal sessions, package format conversion, et cetera ad nauseum.

What I think the guy was doing was talking trash, plain and simple. Most of it has to do with ego--the perceived "need" for a linux user to be better than the "noobs" we call the standard user. You know the type; they tend to add an 'L' to the front of "users" and to use numbers instead of letters when referring to themselves or their technical prowess. (which doesn't seem too savvy to me, since if other people have difficulty reading it and the terminal window thinks you're on crack for spelling that way, it's pointless. |D 0 ][ |\| 71 3 $ $ ).

I'm not saying that we don't have the type in Ubuntu; there is at least one in every crowd it seems, but I think we can at least take comments like that with the proverbial grain of salt it so richly deserves. The beauty of Linux is that this person isn't bound to any one particular distro. What he fails to realize is that we are not bound to use his either. And ego trips aren't nearly as important as actually using the operating system and showing others how to use it. It's free, maybe we should share the knowledge instead.

Just my ten cents.

--Alterax

[FuturePilot]

"Ubuntu users lean Ubuntu, whereas [insert other Linux distro name here]'s users learn Linux".
That's just false. Any Linux distro is based on, well, Linux. Linux is just referring to the kernel. Not the overall OS. Some people criticize Ubuntu because they feel that it makes things too easy. I'm not sure why they think that's a bad thing. If Linux is going to make a move, you have to streamline things.

But no matter what distro you use, you almost have to learn that distro. Say a person used Debian all their life and switches to Gentoo. They would have to learn how Gentoo works since it's so different than Debian. So it's almost impossible to learn just "Linux". You have to learn the distro.

[juxtaposed]

Can somebody here tell me why, as this other user suggested, Ubuntu holds you back whereas Slackware and Debian don't?

Ubuntu is slower then debian. That's pretty much everything. Oh, and debian packages are said not to work on ubuntu, and I think debian gets packages sooner then ubuntu because debian has sid.

Nothing more then that. If you like ubuntu, use it.

[Paul820]

Doesn't hold me back in the least; I have the advantages of a large software repository, great support from other users, and the stability of a Debian box with an intuitive user interface.

That's "holding me back"? I don't think it is. Ubuntu has yet to stop me from poking around in configuration files manually if I wish, has not stopped me from writing or compiling my own programs, has not locked me away from installing programs from source code, and has not stopped me from occasionally running a box without X at all.

It has not stopped me from learning LDAP, forensics, remote terminal sessions, package format conversion, et cetera ad nauseum.

What I think the guy was doing was talking trash, plain and simple. Most of it has to do with ego--the perceived "need" for a linux user to be better than the "noobs" we call the standard user. You know the type; they tend to add an 'L' to the front of "users" and to use numbers instead of letters when referring to themselves or their technical prowess. (which doesn't seem too savvy to me, since if other people have difficulty reading it and the terminal window thinks you're on crack for spelling that way, it's pointless. |D 0 ][ |\| 71 3 $ $ ).

I'm not saying that we don't have the type in Ubuntu; there is at least one in every crowd it seems, but I think we can at least take comments like that with the proverbial grain of salt it so richly deserves. The beauty of Linux is that this person isn't bound to any one particular distro. What he fails to realize is that we are not bound to use his either. And ego trips aren't nearly as important as actually using the operating system and showing others how to use it. It's free, maybe we should share the knowledge instead.

Just my ten cents.

--Alterax

And a good ten cents it was aswell, hit the nail on the head. :guitar:

[Billy_McBong]

i have noticed that people who dis Ubuntu dont give reasons they just say stuff like " UBUNTU SUX!!!!!1111 IM A 1337 HAX0R!!!!!!"

[Earthwormzim]

I agree with that guy to some extent though - distros like slackware & debian are great for learning stuff on. But most of us don't use Linux to learn, do we?

Actually...I'm using Linux for the specific purpose of learning. In fact, I'm actually getting quite used to using the command line now because of Ubuntu (well, Ubuntu, and the Unix servers I have to do all my school programs on, etc). Plus...I'm learning things like how to work with GTK+. I admit, most average users would never go there, being that most average users aren't programmers. But...anywho, I am (or...plan to be, that is), and it's been a blast so far working on Ubuntu.

[sad_iq]

Oh, and debian packages are said not to work on ubuntu, and I think debian gets packages sooner then ubuntu because debian has sid.
Don't mean to criticise or anything...but from what I've seen in some forums it's the other way around(as some say)...they claim that ubuntu users are beta testers ( or lab rats as somebody said), for the packages that will eventually make it into sid, because ubuntu forces a new version every 6 months without extensive testing. The only reason the debian packages do not work in ubuntu could be because it installs stuff in diferent places(could be wrong on this one). Now how I see it, beeing on the edge doesn't bother me a bit(someone needs to test apps), and i do belive that Debian, beeing the father of many distros out there deserves only the best!!!
On the other hand beeing a newcomers distro, trying to do most things with the GUI will get them to barely use the terminal, and it could be a hazard if they try to switch distros.I learned more about linux(forced learning...reading mans, howtos...etc) when it crashed on me and i had to do some manual configs then when it worked and used the GUI only for all my work(now imagine what happened when i first tried gentoo :().
Another point they could have is stability and security...everyone knows Debian is the most stable, tested, and secure OS there is, so everyone that's paranoid about these things will choose debian stable over any ubuntu version. The downside to debian...it's a pain to configure, you have to really know it to mantain a good server, back in the days everyone would start with RedHat then move to Debian to become a guru and it forced the user to use cli apps.

[userundefine]

Meh. My bash is bigger than your bash.

[Kvark]

Yes, one of the best things about Ubuntu was that it held me back. Ubuntu caused me less problems then any other OS so all was well and I was happily using it for a couple years. Then I went out to try other distros, ran into all kinds of weird problems and learned how to fix most of them. So Ubuntu did hold me back by being high quality and not giving me problems to fix. I did learn a lot of things that I wanted to learn while using Ubuntu but it didn't force me to learn things I didn't want to know and that is a good thing.

[juxtaposed]

but from what I've seen in some forums it's the other way around(as some say)...they claim that ubuntu users are beta testers ( or lab rats as somebody said), for the packages that will eventually make it into sid, because ubuntu forces a new version every 6 months without extensive testing.

Pretty much anything will go into sid. If it compiles on the system of the person uploading it to the repos then it goes in. Ubuntu just takes a snapshot of sid every 6 months.


Now how I see it, beeing on the edge doesn't bother me a bit(someone needs to test apps), and i do belive that Debian, beeing the father of many distros out there deserves only the best!!!

There are three main branches of debian. Stable (called etch now), testing (called lenny now), and unstable (called sid forever). Things go into sid first, then into testing if they are in sid without any problems for awhile, then get tested a lot and into stable when a new version comes out every few years.


The downside to debian...it's a pain to configure,

Not really. It's pretty easy.


you have to really know it to mantain a good server,

I know nothing of how to run a server and I run debian fine.

[xpod]

Well i certainly dont know about all you whizkids,gamers & geeks but being dad in my little world and being completely new to computers at the time i`d say Ubuntu did the complete opposite of hold me/us back.

I reckon i`ve learned a hell of a lot more about these crazy boxes of wires in just one year with ubuntu than i ever would have with the same years with Windows that most of You`se come here with.

I learned a whole heap about cleaning,tidying,securing & re-installing Windows during the few months i used it and boy can i run a tight Windows ship if need be but i never actually learnt a thing about computers till i come here i dont think....not that i`ve learned that much of course:-k

I only ever sat down at a pc to try learn enough to keep my kids safe & secure and i reckon discovering Ubuntu as quick as i did has probably been the best thing that could ever have happened with that in mind.

No kid of mine was ever getting to embarras this pop`s

[distroman]

Post subject: I'm starting a new distribution Reply with quote
It's called

EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu.

Hehehe...

Features:

1. it has no keyboard or mouse functionality. You use voice commands. For instance, if you want to write a letter you say:

a) "Dear EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu. I want to write a letter." (and it starts a wordprocessor with a talking hair-brush which tries to assists you as you dictate).

2. To browse the Internet, you must say:

b) "Dear EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu. I want to browse the internet." (and it opens a new internet browser called CarbonPoo)

c) "Dear EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu. I want to listen to music." (and it opens a music playing application called ZMMMMMMMMMMMMMS)

You get the idea...

It's going to be a desktop Linux OS for newbies (an idea which nobody has ever though of before). It's released under the new HPL (still under construction).

Great things you can do in EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu:

1. Write letters.
2. Browse internet
3. Listen to music.

See? Unique and very different.

It's best security feature is that it doesn't have user-name and login: if you manage to say "EkalaBukala TinkuBinku JagadaThugada Komanabuntu" while holding your breath it allows you to proceed. Otherwise, the computer sulks...

I don't think you should take “them” to seriously it's mostly good fun.

[qtwerp]

Sure CLI isn't used too much w/ new Ubuntu users but isn't that the idea?

I tend to think so.

[original_jamingrit]

Ubuntu holds you back from learning as much as the other base distros hold you back from convenience.

I've learned tons from Slackware, mostly because there's a crapload of stuff I didn't need to know with Ubuntu. But now I do, and I'm still learning tons. I've only been using Linux systems seriously for the past nine months, and it's really interesting seeing where distros like Ubuntu and Slackware differ and where they are the same.

There's different reasons for people to not like Ubuntu. I've heard some complain that it tries to hard to be like every other distro, or that they don't trust Canonical. Each distro has its own fan boys, much like this does. I say to just take it with a grain of salt. Ubuntu is a genuinely good distro in its own right.

[darksidedude]

if you wana get held back, go threw dependency hell with fedora

yes i gave them the benifet of the doubt and used RHEL, yum got better but still I like gdebi and ubuntu, and soon for (K)ubuntu 2 :popcorn:

[vexorian]

hmmm

I can use as much terminal and config files in ubuntu as I want to, so I don't think it is really holding me back, unless I would want to compile my own kernel with my own mods which I doubt is really what those debian and slackware fans are doing anyways...

[Zzl1xndd]

I wouldn't worry to much about people saying stuff like that for me it doesn't seem too long ago for me that Redhat was the "easy distro" and Slack and Debian users made fun of me for using Redhat. In the end its just the Hardcore CLI guys taking their shots, Much Like I often mock windows and Mac users and the Cycle goes on. (but all in good fun)

[blithen]

Doesn't hold me back in the least; I have the advantages of a large software repository, great support from other users, and the stability of a Debian box with an intuitive user interface.

That's "holding me back"? I don't think it is. Ubuntu has yet to stop me from poking around in configuration files manually if I wish, has not stopped me from writing or compiling my own programs, has not locked me away from installing programs from source code, and has not stopped me from occasionally running a box without X at all.

It has not stopped me from learning LDAP, forensics, remote terminal sessions, package format conversion, et cetera ad nauseum.

What I think the guy was doing was talking trash, plain and simple. Most of it has to do with ego--the perceived "need" for a linux user to be better than the "noobs" we call the standard user. You know the type; they tend to add an 'L' to the front of "users" and to use numbers instead of letters when referring to themselves or their technical prowess. (which doesn't seem too savvy to me, since if other people have difficulty reading it and the terminal window thinks you're on crack for spelling that way, it's pointless. |D 0 ][ |\| 71 3 $ $ ).

I'm not saying that we don't have the type in Ubuntu; there is at least one in every crowd it seems, but I think we can at least take comments like that with the proverbial grain of salt it so richly deserves. The beauty of Linux is that this person isn't bound to any one particular distro. What he fails to realize is that we are not bound to use his either. And ego trips aren't nearly as important as actually using the operating system and showing others how to use it. It's free, maybe we should share the knowledge instead.

Just my ten cents.

--Alterax

Awesome ten cents! Maybe even twenty. :P

[Sayers]

They say that because Ubuntu uses GUI and is easy to use. A lot of us still use the terminal.

[cmat]

I didn't come to learn Linux. I came looking for an alternative OS.

Though I am more tech-savvy than lots of people out there, I rather not have to punch in terminal commands unless is absolutely necessary.

[steven8]

Ubuntu doesn't hold anyone back. They hold themselves back, or learn as much as they want. What a bunch of twaddle.

[Sayers]

It's all ego. Ubuntu is used by people who want to be productive though. MIT , dell , etc.

[Dimitriid]

Funny, Im learning my way around mostly on this forums reading tutorials and what not and 90% of em send me to terminal or to manually edit/change config files, it is only after I play around with Ubuntu by myself that I discover "hey ive been doing "sudo apt-get" all this time when I can just search it on synaptic" or "wow I dont need to open my sources.list on gedit, it has a graphical interface link too" etc.

I see that as the perfect combo of being practical and customizable without sacrificing either.

[beefcurry]

I agree with Dimitriid :), But I must say, I learnt more on Ubuntu then I ever did back on Mandrake.

[Frak]

I've noticed alot of forums putting down Ubuntu users for using Ubuntu in the first place. We all know its because we have the largest fan base. Others are jealeous because they can't figure out that all people want is an easy to use OS that doesn't intrude on their work. We don't make you use the CLI unless your using something thats not technically recommended by the devs. I've even been banned from a forum for comparing an OS against Ubuntu, from which I will not name that OS.
I like Ubuntu, alot of others Like Ubuntu, appearantly Dell now likes Ubuntu.

Most of all though, if YOU like Ubuntu, then use it. we will not bias you. If you hear somebody else say "Your not teh 1337 haxxor because you don't use blah blah blah" Ignore them. More of a reason not to use them.
Luckily most of all, on this forum, you have people that won't call you a n00b if you are new. Its just not our style. We'd rather get you out of here the fastest and the most polite way we can (by helping you, not patranizing).

And regards, Welcome to Ubuntu Forums.

[Alterax]

*shrug* Maybe it is kind of like jealousy. I mean, I am sure these people went through some kind of a hazing to learn to do things the hard way.

Having easier methods to do it now must be kind of disconcerting to them; takes away that certain one thousand three hundred and thirty seven status.

It must be something to write an entire sendmail configuration file with the vi editor (something of the holy grail of linux purists; nano works fine for my uses) then see some kid come in with webmin or something similar and generate something equally functional in ten minutes.

[cobrn1]

They're just critics.

Ubuntu is easy to use - if you don't want to use the CLI, typically you don't have to. You'll be missing out on a great tool, but lots of people just don't care, just like msconfig is really useful, but normal users don't care.

If you want usability, use ubuntu. If you want to absolutely control your linux box... oh wait, you can do that with ubuntu too - its the same old linux, just with a better wrapping.

You can learn all the linux tricks with ubuntu, and delve as deep into the inner workings as you like. BUT, you _don't have too_, and that, in my opinion, is what makes ubuntu great.

[esaym]

Ubuntu does hold you back. That is good for some people though. If you don't like it, then yea, use something else. Ubuntu is good for getting air under your Linux Wings :KS:)

[steven8]

Ubuntu does hold you back.

Does everyone here who believes Ubuntu 'holds you back' drive a stick shift, not an automatic or make all their own home and car repairs, without ever going to a professional?

If you all do, then perhaps Ubuntu does 'hold you back'. . .or perhaps it is, as I said, up to the user to either learn more or be happy with what they have. Ubuntu does NOTHING 'to' the user. It does, however do something FOR them. It gives them a sweet OS to run their computer.

[cmat]

Seriously, your computer should work for you. Not the other way around (unless you want to).

[ticopelp]

As someone who cut his Linux teeth on Slackware during the bad old days, I say that sort of attitude is just garden-variety snobbery and insecurity. Oh no! What will happen to our precious sense of superiority if just any old prole can use Linux?!

[jrusso2]

Ubuntu does hold you back. That is good for some people though. If you don't like it, then yea, use something else. Ubuntu is good for getting air under your Linux Wings :KS:)

I can't really think of anything you can't do in Ubuntu that you can in other Linux distros.

You can compile if you want, install your own kernel, boot into console and use it to your hearts content if you want.

I started using Slackware 11 years ago and I really would prefer not to have to go back to that. But everyone has their own tastes and if it runs towards the privative then go ahead and try something else.

[seshomaru samma]

I switched to Debian Etch , hoping to learn more about Linux. I was quite 'disappointed' with its friendliness. It was not that different from Dapper ,except VMware run MUCH faster on it. I got to use as much CLI on it as I used in Dapper ,with an extra CLI line for enabling SCIM on an English session.
Luckily I needed to use wireless and Etch didn't recognise my card , I had to manually install some drivers and learned two wireless-related commands.

Bottom Line - I didn't learn that much in Debian . Next I will try Gentoo...

[Frak]

Bottom Line - I didn't learn that much in Debian . Next I will try Gentoo...

Good luck with that, 4 out of 5 times it didn't install because just one program didn't compile right.

[cmat]

If you can install gentoo on the first try then you are truly amazing. I gave up after 3 days.

[Frak]

I gave up after 7, then I had a lucky 3, but 8 hours to install an OS is ridiculous. I would pay somebody to get a precompiled Gentoo system, but not Sabayon. Don't like it for some odd reason.

[eentonig]

Got tired of reading everything.

so what if Ubuntu holds me back? Yeah, maybe there's a thousand other cool things I could do with my pc, if I were to install the 'right' distro. Or if I was to dig deep in the caves of 'CLI and conf files'? So what? Let it hold me back as much as it wants.

Linux is freedom. And Ubuntu offers what I need on a daily basis, without to much trouble in getting it working. If it didn't do that, I would start searching for a different distro. But it serves my needs, so I don't care about the gaziljon other things I could do. I don't need them. Sure, let them hold me back. See if I care.



PS. For day to day use, I consider this to be the best distro for the moment. For specific server use, I would still choose Debian stable. One job, one tool.

[Alexander2007]

Nope. Knowledge determines the status of Ubuntu. If you're a beginner you can feel just as comfortable as a pro. All the software and options are available, the choice is yours.

[bread eyes]

I think there is a bit of truth behind it. Ubuntu doesn't really "hold you back" it just doesn't "push" you. For example: Slackware "pushes" you to know more stuff then ubuntu.

[EdThaSlayer]

It always seems to be like this. Those other distro fans are just bullying the new guy on the block(well, Ubuntu is pretty new if you compare it to the other distros that are out there) and also diss it because it seems to be getting more popular than those other distros.Or, maybe, those other guys are jealous because with ubuntu everything can basically be done with the GUI. :)

[Polygon]

if you really want to learn linux while using ubuntu.....


ctrl+alt+f1

[Frak]

For anybody who doesn't know ctrl+alt+f1 is console mode.
Thought I'd give you a heads up.

[tbroderick]

Or, maybe, those other guys are jealous because with ubuntu everything can basically be done with the GUI. :)

It's not really GUI versus CLI, more about automatic versus manual. It's nice to know how to configure packages/services without relying on Ubuntu to automatically do it for you or on any Ubuntu specific software.

[Frak]

It's not really GUI versus CLI, more about automatic versus manual. It's nice to know how to configure packages/services without relying on Ubuntu to automatically do it for you or on any Ubuntu specific software.
I agree, I like Ubuntu alot because it moves all my files for me from my Windows partition. It also automatically installs my drivers.

[VChief]

I don't think a distro can hold anyone back. Only a person can hold them back. This isn't Windows or Mac where they try to hide everything from the user. The fact is that Linux is basically the same, underneath it all. The GUI and all the admin apps are built on top of the core operating system. When I have time, I like to edit stuff via CLI. I love the CLI (thinking of trying this on one of my computers: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=387598), and use it quite a bit. I started with computer on DOS and always liked the CLI and keyboard more than point-and-click. However, it's nice to have all the GUI tools. It helps. I work full time and am taking three college courses. I don't want to "waste" time when I don't have it. I also love apt-get. I don't have to sit there and compile stuff and worry about dependencies and weird errors coming up. Speaking of admin tools, has there ever been talk of a YaST-like tool? Just curious. Slackware and Gentoo are great, I like them both, but when you're busy, you want quick solutions, sometimes. Doesn't mean you can't still learn everything there is to learn about Linux. It just means you aren't forced to just to check your e-mail. You can learn when you have time, at your own pace.