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View Full Version : What are the "beliefs of Linux"



aragorn2909
July 22nd, 2005, 05:13 PM
The above question has been posed in another thread, and I would like to attempt to answer it here. For me, Linux equals freedom, democracy, tolerance, and diversity. Linux is (or can be) the manifestation of the virtues of a "computing enlightenment".

Now open for discussion

az
July 22nd, 2005, 05:22 PM
Read the Cathedral and the Bazaar, by Eric Raymond.

Knome_fan
July 22nd, 2005, 05:29 PM
I don't think there is something one could call the "believes of Linux", nor should there be, it's not a religion after all and you say yourself it's diversity is one of Linux' most important features.

Now that is not to say that people involved with Linux, or rather GNU/Linux (scnr) don't have something one could call believes.
For example the whole Free Software Movement of course has something one could call "believes", but the Open Source Movement has others again, while IBM sure couldn't care less about believes.

To sum it up, I think this whole topic is rather meaningless.

WirelessMike
July 22nd, 2005, 05:35 PM
It's old.. but good. REALLY good.

**linkage** (http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Computers/Linux/Manifesto.txt)

dataw0lf
July 22nd, 2005, 05:39 PM
Linux means easier development and administration *shrug* I love open source, release all my applications as such, but I'm a pragmatist.

Jason-X
July 22nd, 2005, 05:43 PM
Richard Stallman sums things up nicely here:

http://www.freesmug.org/Video/rms

"Church of emacs" anyone? :)

jeremy
July 22nd, 2005, 06:01 PM
I see it as music:

Linux = Jazz
Mac = Classical
Windows = Pop

I love Jazz!

aragorn2909
July 22nd, 2005, 06:15 PM
I don't think there is something one could call the "believes of Linux", nor should there be, it's not a religion after all and you say yourself it's diversity is one of Linux' most important features. Thank you Knome_fan, I should have clarified that to begin with. I'm interested in what individuals believe the "beliefs of Linux" to be, as opposed to something like an official "Linux Mission Statement" that tells you what the beliefs are. Entirely personal, open for interpretation.

poptones
July 23rd, 2005, 01:24 AM
I know this is going to get a big ol' groan, but it's important to note the GPL is what we as a community rely upon. Copyright is the GPL's walking papers. Copyright is what prevents linux developers from becoming unwitting Windows and Adobe developers.

Ergo, a fundamental "belief" of anyone who truly walks the walk must be a strong defense and respect of copyright.

Stormy Eyes
July 23rd, 2005, 02:37 AM
Copyright is what prevents linux developers from becoming unwitting Windows and Adobe developers.

The BSD people don't seem to mind.

super
July 23rd, 2005, 03:02 AM
i don't know if my thoughts define those of the whole linux community but for me my using linux has nothing to do with freedom (as in speech) and everything do do with free (as in beer) and the quality of the OS.

i use linux because it is:
a) a better quality OS compared to *******
b) less expensive compared to *******
c) at least equal in quality compared to Apple
d) less expensive compared to Apple

so i don't necessarily have any beliefs regarding linux. it is to me simply a very powerful OS at the perfect price. if OSX was free i might use that instead. (i know, i'm fickle! :) )

poptones
July 23rd, 2005, 03:19 AM
The BSD people don't seem to mind.
That's why I'm not a BSD person

poofyhairguy
July 23rd, 2005, 04:04 AM
The BSD people don't seem to mind.

The BSD people are making MS's future OS.

davahmet
July 23rd, 2005, 07:29 AM
The BSD license is also what allows Apple to use BSD community software while keeping the lid on tight with proprietary licensing. Now, it's just my opinion, and I believe Apple is currently a fine product, but this is a somewhat parasitic relationship where Apple takes what it wants and returns nothing.

Poptones is absolutely correct about the strength of copyright combined with the GPL that protects Linux developers from becoming unwitting contributors to proprietary vendors.

weasel fierce
July 23rd, 2005, 07:49 AM
To me Linux means software that doesnt suck :)

Knome_fan
July 23rd, 2005, 10:45 AM
I know this is going to get a big ol' groan, but it's important to note the GPL is what we as a community rely upon. Copyright is the GPL's walking papers. Copyright is what prevents linux developers from becoming unwitting Windows and Adobe developers.

Thanks for stating the obvious.



Ergo, a fundamental "belief" of anyone who truly walks the walk must be a strong defense and respect of copyright.
Strange, the author of the GPL seems to somehow disagree with you:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.html

poptones
July 23rd, 2005, 03:02 PM
The BSD license is also what allows Apple to use BSD community software while keeping the lid on tight with proprietary licensing.... this is a somewhat parasitic relationship where Apple takes what it wants and returns nothing.

Apple has returned some code to BSD via Darwin. Problem there is most of the code Apple "returns" isn't on the BSD license but on Apple's license, which means it can't be used in competing projects.

Don't forget Microsoft also kickstarted Windows with BSD's network stack. When is free software not free? When it has no means of defending its liberty.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/08/freedom.GNU.idg/

TravisNewman
July 23rd, 2005, 03:10 PM
Apple has returned some code to BSD via Darwin. Problem there is most of the code Apple "returns" isn't on the BSD license but on Apple's license, which means it can't be used in competing projects.

Don't forget Microsoft also kickstarted Windows with BSD's network stack. When is free software not free? When it has no means of defending its liberty.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/08/freedom.GNU.idg/
Righto, though I never knew MS took from BSD. If BSD had been released under GPL, that code that Apple and MS created would have to be released under the same license. The GPL protects the community that created the original software, yet is more restrictive to prospective developers than the BSD license. There's no right or wrong answer as to which license is better. They both protect a different freedom. It's up to you to decide what you like the best. I go for the GPL because of the community protection.

Lowe
July 23rd, 2005, 04:36 PM
i don't know if my thoughts define those of the whole linux community but for me my using linux has nothing to do with freedom (as in speech) and everything do do with free (as in beer) and the quality of the OS.

i use linux because it is:
a) a better quality OS compared to *******
b) less expensive compared to *******
c) at least equal in quality compared to Apple
d) less expensive compared to Apple

so i don't necessarily have any beliefs regarding linux. it is to me simply a very powerful OS at the perfect price. if OSX was free i might use that instead. (i know, i'm fickle! :) )

Err why must all these threads to develop into a "Let's bash microsoft" discussion?
Geez linux is an operating system not a religion.

Gsibbery
July 23rd, 2005, 05:11 PM
Err why must all these threads to develop into a "Let's bash microsoft" discussion?
Geez linux is an operating system not a religion.

Not to some people.

Knome_fan
July 23rd, 2005, 05:37 PM
Err why must all these threads to develop into a "Let's bash microsoft" discussion?
Geez linux is an operating system not a religion.
What does bashing MS have to do with religion? :shock:

Lowe
July 23rd, 2005, 06:24 PM
It doesn't.


Err why must all these threads to develop into a "Let's bash microsoft" discussion?

That was referring to super's post.


Geez linux is an operating system not a religion.

..and this was referring to the topic.

Knome_fan
July 23rd, 2005, 06:27 PM
Ah, I see.
My bad.

super
July 23rd, 2005, 09:44 PM
Oy!
@Lowe
i didn't intend my post to be a jab at *******, i didn't say it was horrible/garbage software. i actually do need to use it for certain things. i simply meant that in my opinion Linux in general (Ubuntu in particular) is better than ******* so i use it most of the time. all a matter of preference mon ami et i happen to prefer Ubuntu.
:-k

TravisNewman
July 23rd, 2005, 10:56 PM
super, for me at least, whenever the word ******* is used instead of windows, it's a jab at windows. Why else would you purposefully misspell it in a degrading way? That could be one reason your comments came off as bashing.

super
July 23rd, 2005, 11:05 PM
point taken.