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vexorian
July 25th, 2007, 03:42 PM
Unbelievable:

http://www.betanews.com/article/ECIS_Accuses_Microsoft_of_Plotting_HTML_Hijack/1169824569

Nekiruhs
July 25th, 2007, 04:07 PM
They'll never win. Too many webservers run *Nix for them to get the market penetration needed.

marco123
July 25th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Smacks of desperation to me. Lets face it 64bit is the future and windows isn't ready. Leopard/new Macs are 64bit from the ground up. Linux is a well proven 64bit platform. Have you ever used windows64? Its' a joke. They are just trying everything they can think of now to maintain their monopoly, from Linux FUD to trying to lock people into their formats. PC games are now "Games for Windows". Almost every entertainment PC in PC World here in the UK comes with an ATI graphics card. I could go on but I've other things to do. It just riles me up is all.:) /rant over

MetalOverlord
July 25th, 2007, 06:58 PM
As with all threads relating to something MS does, why is anyone surprised? It's no secret MS has been trying to hijack the internet with ActiveX, VBScript, ASP, and other IE-specific software.

What I don't get is where's the outrage towards those sites that create IE-only content? Aren't they at least partially responsible for breaking accepted standards? I hate web sites that do that and don't visit them unless I absolutely have to. It's a complete snub to those that don't use IE. It says "we don't care about you and you're not important to us".

Anyways, I can't believe that XAML is going to be adopted as a standard if it requires MS-specific software. But who knows? MS has mighty big pockets. They've been known to sway people with their "if you use our products Santa will be REAL nice to you this Christmas *wink* *wink*" strategy. If that doesn't work, then threaten a lawsuit.

smartboyathome
July 25th, 2007, 07:53 PM
That article is from the beginning of this year. No doubt that the info there is outdated.

Tundro Walker
July 26th, 2007, 06:54 AM
I'm all for folks trying to make the web more robust, but I think folks like the W3C, Microsoft, etc keep jacking with HTML too much. It's easy, light-weight, and any Joe/Jane Average can figure it out w/o needing a comp-sci degree or 3rd party editor. But they keep screwing with it. It's annoying. And for frak's sake, would Microsoft layoff trying to take control of everything that's public domain. Sheesh! They already control Chile...isn't that enough!

DoctorMO
July 26th, 2007, 08:22 AM
Well the W3C have a right to mess with http/html/xml etc after all it's Sir Tim Burns Leas mob and he's practically the founding father of the internet we know and love. the thing about the way the w3c does business is that at least they spec things out with versions and have proper public and peer review.

original_jamingrit
July 26th, 2007, 08:46 AM
That article is from the beginning of this year. No doubt that the info there is outdated.

I'm glad you pointed that out. I had read "January 26, 2007", and then thought to myself, "Yep, July 26, that's today." I had already heard earlier today that w3c were planning on finishing an HTML 5.0, so this article threw me off a little.

rejser
July 26th, 2007, 09:06 AM
the xaml dev tools are still developing though.
Thinking that they didn't bothering following w3c standards with the new ie...

Sp4cedOut
July 26th, 2007, 09:11 AM
It sounds to me like Microsoft is just creating their own markup language. I see nothing wrong with that. If it was Apple, Adobe, or any other company I suspect this wouldn't have even made news.

I think some people are just getting a little paranoid.

vexorian
July 26th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Hmmm I am not sure where you are getting that from.

If it was apple I would have been even more scared since they are even worse open source enemies.

Adobe is already pretty much hated for infecting the web with PDF and flash.

The best reason not to hate a new format would be that:
- It was actually needed
- It was actually open.

MS pushing a new format for the web, is bad news since it does not follow either of the points.

3rdalbum
July 26th, 2007, 03:17 PM
How is Microsoft any different to the W3C then?

The W3C has been pushing for hundreds of new "standards" to be adopted, even when these "standards" are confusing and enable no extra features. I mean, I've been developing websites for years, and that XML Events stuff goes right over my head.

HTML 5 was not created by the W3C. It was created by a working group containing representatives of the major web browser developers, for the interests of making Web 2.0/Ajax sites easier to code. Think about it - the W3C releases new specifications every week, and yet none of those specs contain what the industry ACTUALLY needs.

I used to have a website that made fun of the W3C - it's unmaintained now, but I still think it's quite funny (some of the articles are based on real things that the W3C did): We Want Weed Consortium (http://members.lycos.co.uk/bigbolshevik/w3c/)

vexorian
July 27th, 2007, 05:33 PM
The standards are open, any app can implement them and many apps have.

init1
July 27th, 2007, 06:17 PM
How is Microsoft any different to the W3C then?

The W3C has been pushing for hundreds of new "standards" to be adopted, even when these "standards" are confusing and enable no extra features. I mean, I've been developing websites for years, and that XML Events stuff goes right over my head.

HTML 5 was not created by the W3C. It was created by a working group containing representatives of the major web browser developers, for the interests of making Web 2.0/Ajax sites easier to code. Think about it - the W3C releases new specifications every week, and yet none of those specs contain what the industry ACTUALLY needs.

I used to have a website that made fun of the W3C - it's unmaintained now, but I still think it's quite funny (some of the articles are based on real things that the W3C did): We Want Weed Consortium (http://members.lycos.co.uk/bigbolshevik/w3c/)
Doesn't matter to me what the "standards" are. They say I can't do a "<i><b>Text Here</i></b>". They say say I need <html> tags and <body> tags, and all that stuff, but I ignore it anyway. These standards dictate what HTML should be. MS seems to want to say what HTML is.

Extreme Coder
July 27th, 2007, 06:26 PM
It sounds to me like Microsoft is just creating their own markup language. I see nothing wrong with that. If it was Apple, Adobe, or any other company I suspect this wouldn't have even made news.

I think some people are just getting a little paranoid.
But does Adobe have a way to _lock_in_ users to their format?

samb0057
July 27th, 2007, 06:34 PM
The difference is this:

W3C creates standards in order to keep these languages well formulated and have a single authority on how to write HTML, rather than a bunch of developers making conflicting web pages that do not work together or with browsers other than the ones they are intended for.

Microsoft creates standards to kill off any other method of doing things. These standards are not created to make website programming more "easy" or "efficient" but more microsoft dependent.

7Priest7
July 27th, 2007, 06:37 PM
Microsoft's page does not use any of their IE only stuff...
So the people who do should walk around with an "L" on their forehead!

Alex

Extreme Coder
July 27th, 2007, 06:53 PM
Microsoft's page does not use any of their IE only stuff...
So the people who do should walk around with an "L" on their forehead!

Alex
And exactly WHO claimed that MS website used IE-only stuff?

init1
July 27th, 2007, 08:28 PM
The difference is this:

W3C creates standards in order to keep these languages well formulated and have a single authority on how to write HTML, rather than a bunch of developers making conflicting web pages that do not work together or with browsers other than the ones they are intended for.

Microsoft creates standards to kill off any other method of doing things. These standards are not created to make website programming more "easy" or "efficient" but more microsoft dependent.
Exactly.