FBI spyware?

[univremonster]

This is sort of a curiosity rather than a bona fide "help I can't get Ubuntu to work right" question and I don't know if it goes in the cafe or backyard but it is still compy-related...

I heard on the news a few days ago that the CIA developed its own spyware in order to track down this guy who was threatening to bomb a school in Washington state I think it was. He was using a Myspace page (honestly, has anything good come out of that place?) and they somehow got him with this spyware and tracked him down. My question is would that even work on a Linux-based machine, since it can't really install itself in the same way it would on a Windows machine, or do you just have to have an ISP address to get busted?

[Saner]

Sounds like complete piffle to me to be honest./

but no something designed to work on a windows box wouldnt work on a linux one

[superprogrammer]

I'm almost positive hey used an IP tracker, which doesn't have to be installed on the machine. I once went to a website the nailed me down to my exact street by my IP address.

[SPQQKY]

Why, what are you planning? :)

[forestpixie]

he's defaulting the ms update site to ubuntuforums.org :)

[igknighted]

This is sort of a curiosity rather than a bona fide "help I can't get Ubuntu to work right" question and I don't know if it goes in the cafe or backyard but it is still compy-related...

I heard on the news a few days ago that the CIA developed its own spyware in order to track down this guy who was threatening to bomb a school in Washington state I think it was. He was using a Myspace page (honestly, has anything good come out of that place?) and they somehow got him with this spyware and tracked him down. My question is would that even work on a Linux-based machine, since it can't really install itself in the same way it would on a Windows machine, or do you just have to have an ISP address to get busted?

I hope it wasn't the CIA... they cannot legally monitor activity within the USA. They are external only.

[LaRoza]

I'm almost positive hey used an IP tracker, which doesn't have to be installed on the machine. I once went to a website the nailed me down to my exact street by my IP address.

Getting an IP address is easy. When you request a site, your IP address is sent so the server can send the packets to the correct location.

PHP has a simple function for retrieving this info.

[Jimmyfj]

Unless you are planning on a mail-correspondence with Bin Laden I can't see why the CIA should be interested in stuff on your computer - But yes, your IP at your ISP usually is enough to track you down, and why not? As long as there is a criminal act that leads to their intrusion and they got their court orders in place.

Afraid of the police/Government? Just stay on the right side of the laws.

[styven]

I ve, just posted a link about this a couple of threads up, did not see this , someone might want to merge or delete mine.
Heres the link again if you want it....

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/blogs/indhttp://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=1121&blogid=4ex.cfm?entryid=1121&blogid=4

[hanzomon4]

It was the FBI, maybe change the thread title. CIA can't spy on Americans in the USA because they have no jurisdiction here.

[init1]

Unless you are planning on a mail-correspondence with Bin Laden I can't see why the CIA should be interested in stuff on your computer - But yes, your IP at your ISP usually is enough to track you down, and why not? As long as there is a criminal act that leads to their intrusion and they got their court orders in place.

Afraid of the police/Government? Just stay on the right side of the laws.
Can't you just use a proxy?

[crimesaucer]

Unless you are planning on a mail-correspondence with Bin Laden I can't see why the CIA should be interested in stuff on your computer - But yes, your IP at your ISP usually is enough to track you down, and why not? As long as there is a criminal act that leads to their intrusion and they got their court orders in place.

Afraid of the police/Government? Just stay on the right side of the laws.

That's an ignorant argument.


Have you ever heard of COINTELPRO (yes, I know it's the FBI not the CIA) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO


...even though it is supposedly used for right wing hate groups, there has been many documented instances of it going after peaceful left wing anti-war groups as well as environmental activists. Plus, there were many cases where they are the ones who start the riots at protests like the Seattle WTO in 1999.


And what about all of the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, Huey Percy Newton...I guess none of them "were on the right side of the law".


I'm sure that Nixon, Reagan, Oliver North, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, **** Cheney...and everybody else you've heard about in the last 4 decades "were on the right side of the law"....and anyone who objected to the crimes they have done "were on the WRONG side of the law" and thus, deserve to be spied on and have no rights in America.

[igknighted]

Can't you just use a proxy?

It's not fool proof. If someone were to try hard enough they could usually track you. That said, if you know enough about what you are doing you can make it pretty much impossible to follow your tracks. But you really have to do your homework for this, and there really is no reason to UNLESS you are doing something wrong.

[crimesaucer]

It's not fool proof. If someone were to try hard enough they could usually track you. That said, if you know enough about what you are doing you can make it pretty much impossible to follow your tracks. But you really have to do your homework for this, and there really is no reason to UNLESS you are doing something wrong.

...or you're doing something RIGHT, and they are doing something WRONG.


Do you actually believe the Government cares about you, and not they're profits made from they're Industrial War Complex....


What if you're a reporter and you're breaking the news on the fascism that has been going on for the last 50 years...have you ever heard of McCarthyism...do you think that mind set just stopped in the late 1950's.


Seriously...the least patriotic thing an American can do is to blindly trust the government and allow them to violate your rights...no matter what you are doing.

[Polygon]

I read the article you are talking about. it was about some guy who was bragging to plant bombs and blow them up at his school, and was bragging about it on his myspace and stuff

the fbi got a court order to use a special piece of spyware that was delivered via myspace or some other means to find out where this guy lived and then they arrested him

EDIT: actually i found the link on another post on this forum just 5 seconds ago :D

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=1121&blogid=4

[Sunflower1970]

According to that article, though, no court order/warrant needs to be issued because they used malware.

Seems to be a loophole in the system.

Glad the kid was caught, but it's scary to thing what could happen if the government begins to use this on a regular basis and on innocent people.

[Polygon]

they did get a court order, i read it in some other article if its not in that one.

But think they DO need a court order because its on the same level as like wiretapping and stuff...

[Seisen]

I hope it wasn't the CIA... they cannot legally monitor activity within the USA. They are external only.

It was the CIA I will pull up the article if I can find it and post it here.

[Polygon]

It was the CIA I will pull up the article if I can find it and post it here.

wrong... look at the link i posted a few posts up. it clearly says the FBI



The FBI used spyware to track a schoolchild who was making bomb threats against his school.

[crimesaucer]

Check this Google search page out: http://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+cell+phone&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

[Seisen]

wrong... look at the link i posted a few posts up. it clearly says the FBI

I had a brainfart and I need more coffee.:lolflag:

[lisati]

I'm almost positive hey used an IP tracker, which doesn't have to be installed on the machine. I once went to a website the nailed me down to my exact street by my IP address.
I went to one website that checks vulnerabilities. They were able to find out enough about my connection that a knowledgable user could get into my ADSL modem. It's important to change the default passowrd and whatever else you can think of to slow them down.

[Scotty Bones]

That's an ignorant argument.


Have you ever heard of COINTELPRO (yes, I know it's the FBI not the CIA) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO


...even though it is supposedly used for right wing hate groups, there has been many documented instances of it going after peaceful left wing anti-war groups as well as environmental activists. Plus, there were many cases where they are the ones who start the riots at protests like the Seattle WTO in 1999.


And what about all of the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, Huey Percy Newton...I guess none of them "were on the right side of the law".


I'm sure that Nixon, Reagan, Oliver North, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, **** Cheney...and everybody else you've heard about in the last 4 decades "were on the right side of the law"....and anyone who objected to the crimes they have done "were on the WRONG side of the law" and thus, deserve to be spied on and have no rights in America.

Lets not forget all the people that have mysteriously died or disappeared because they got in the way of the Clinton's. That list is just way too long to post here.
So lets all just vote for Hilary and convert to Communism; then the governments invasion of our privacy wouldn't be against the law, it would just be the way of the village.


edit: peaceful and left-wing do not belong in the same sentence.

[juxtaposed]

Afraid of the police/Government? Just stay on the right side of the laws.

What if the law is wrong? Happens very often :P


So lets all just vote for Hilary and convert to Communism, then the governments invasion of our privacy wouldn't be against the law!!!



You don't understand communism at all :P Seriously...

[Scotty Bones]

Do you actually believe the Government cares about you, and not they're profits made from they're Industrial War Complex....

Or how about all the profits gained by the left-wing tree hugging lib's that make a ridiculous fortune every year by passing absolutely unnecessary so called environmental improvement bills that do absolutely nothing but force industry to purchase new technologies from companies that they own a majority of stock in.

And for your so called "Industrial War Complex". How do you think we obtained the technologies we enjoy and take for granted today? It's called the war effort. I hate to burst your perfect little bubble but Al Gore DID NOT invent the internet. It was developed by the US military as a closed, secure means of communication with missle silos during the cold war (come to think of it so was the microwave). Many such military developed technologies have been passed on to the civilain sector for peaceful applications.
EDIT: Not to mention that it was this effort that brought this country out of the Great Depression!

I don't mean to start a political flame war here but i just hate it when people start bashing the right, when the left have done far worse.

without evil there can be no good.
without war there can be no peace.

[Scotty Bones]

You don't understand communism at all :P Seriously...

In it's simplest terms, communism is the redistribution of wealth, and government control of all aspects of daily life.

If you would like a better explanation of this concept, I would suggest reading "It Takes a Village" by HC

[juxtaposed]

without evil there can be no good.
without war there can be no peace.

That's odd. How can the oppsite of something be needed for it to exist? Sure, you can talk about comparison (we need war to distinctly know what peace is), but other then that...


In it's simplest terms, communism is the redistribution of wealth, and government control of all aspects of daily life.

Thats a common misconception, probably brought on by cold war anti soviet propaganda (despite the fact that the soviets, or anyone else, were not communist).

In simplest terms, communism is a stateless, classless society where the workers organize themselves instead of having capitalists exploit them and profiting from them.

It's more explained in the "Socialism and Communism" thread in the backyard.

[Scotty Bones]

That's odd. How can the oppsite of something be needed for it to exist? Sure, you can talk about comparison (we need war to distinctly know what peace is), but other then that...

You simply can not have one without the other. Its the natural function of nature, in order for there to be balance everything must have its opposite.


Thats a common misconception, probably brought on by cold war anti soviet propaganda (despite the fact that the soviets, or anyone else, were not communist).

In simplest terms, communism is a stateless, classless society where the workers organize themselves instead of having capitalists exploit them and profiting from them.

Thats the way it works on paper. But unfortunately the reality of it is this, for any system to work in a real world application you must have a leader or head of state (pick your title). Without this your country would quickly become someone else's country. This is true from top to bottom . Again, it comes down to the natural order of things (i.e. human nature). Some people are leaders and others are followers. Countries like the former Soviet Union, China and Cuba may not be communist in the truest sense of doctrination but they do package themselves as such (and with pride I might add). And rather than the masses being exploited by capitalists (which anyone in a free society can become) they are exploited by a small few elitists that have everything and suppress the masses in poverty.

EDIT: "but other than that...", what?

[juxtaposed]

(which anyone in a free society can become)

A society is not free if it has a government because the whole point of a government is to control people (take away their freedom). You can argue that a lack of freedom is nesecary, but not that a lack of freedom means freedom.


But unfortunately the reality of it is this, for any system to work in a real world application you must have a leader or head of state (pick your title).

You don't need a head of state if you don't have a state :)


Again, it comes down to the natural order of things (i.e. human nature)

Human nature shows that if given any substantial ammount of power, humans will abuse it.


Countries like the former Soviet Union, China and Cuba may not be communist in the truest sense of doctrination

They're not even close at all.


And rather than the masses being exploited by capitalists (which anyone in a free society can become) they are exploited by a small few elitists that have everything and suppress the masses in poverty.

Its the same either way, just different people who exploit others for their own gain.

[crimesaucer]

Lets not forget all the people that have mysteriously died or disappeared because they got in the way of the Clinton's. That list is just way too long to post here.
So lets all just vote for Hilary and convert to Communism; then the governments invasion of our privacy wouldn't be against the law, it would just be the way of the village.


edit: peaceful and left-wing do not belong in the same sentence.


Please...how can you seriously think that Democrats can even come close to the crap that has been pulled by Republicans?


....Lets look at Jimmy Carter...a good man who meant well (still does), who some say was back stabbed by Reagan and his unofficial advisers which made a deal with Iran that delayed the release of the hostages to help Reagan win the 1980 U.S. election, and to start Ronald Reagan's 8 years off to a "false" successful start with the release of the Hostages six minutes after Reagan was sworn into office, on January 20, 1981.



And as for Clinton...well he was like an 8 year vacation between 16 years of George H.W. Bush and the CIA controlling everything, including Ronald Reagan....and 8 more years of George H.W. Bush and the CIA controlling everything including his son George W. Bush.



....And SO WHAT..."Clinton got a blow job"....I can think of a lot worse, like.....




...Oliver North and the Iran-Contra affair...Osama bin Laden, Invasion of Grenada, Manuel Noriega, United States invasion of Panama, Persian Gulf War....all revolving around cocaine, oil, weapons and people that George H.W. Bush put into positions of power...(everything except Grenada). Let's also not forget that throughout the 1980s Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and even Donald Rumsfeld were good friends with Saddam Hussein...during the "don't ask - don't tell" financing of Saddam in order to defeat and neutralize the Islamic fundamentalists of Iran...

...then...

George Bush winning the Presidential Election through electoral votes but not the popular vote in a very controversial election, the recounts, the "Hanging Chad" in Jeb's state, Enron, the Carlyle Group, Hurricane Katrina, the complete screw up of the Middle East...**** Cheney's secrets and of course all of the cover ups, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, no WMD's, no Osama, no stability in Iraq, no soldiers wants to be there anymore, and now we're messing with Iran... and don't forget our new fear of "Illegal Immigrants"...... and let's not forget how our rights of privacy are just thrown out the window with the Patriot Act, as well as any thing else they feel like passing because they got the majority of you brainwashed people running around scared out of your minds for the losses of 9/11, which as horrible as 9/11 was, it still was only 3000 people....go look at the death toll of both Dessert Storms and Afghanistan.


Propaganda goes a long way for some people....believe it because they want you to.

[Scotty Bones]

No, the point of government is
1. To protect the people from foreign invasion.
and
2. To ensure the freedom of the people.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. -- The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

[Scotty Bones]

Human nature shows that if given any substantial ammount of power, humans will abuse it.

My point exactly

[juxtaposed]

No, the point of government is
1. To protect the people from foreign invasion.
and
2. To ensure the freedom of the people.

The government makes laws. You have to obey those laws or they will use force against you, like the police/justice system/correctional system. How can you consider controlling you to be ensuring freedom? That is a lack of freedom, plain and simple.

[Scotty Bones]

crimesaucer,

Jimmy Carter, are you kidding me!! Carter was a sissy and probably one of worst presidents ever.
Our entire welfare system is in shambles because of this man. and this is the boy that let American hostages rot in the terran embasy for over 400 days. That over a year. We didn't get our people back till Ragan threatened to bomb the crap out of them as his first act as president. Carter, what a joke.

EDIT: All Carter does now days is bash America in the International spotlight. This is not exceptable behavior from a former president. Even Clinton wont have anything to do with him (EDIT: Or any other living president for that matter!). I for one will be glad when this man passes away.

As for Clinton. The man only became President because of campaign finance from China. Most of which he probably used to pay Ross Perot to run so he could steal votes. Just remember the Clinton did not obtain a majority of the popular vote either time. At least JFK had standards. or how about this

"In Feb of 96' the Sudanese had come to the conclusion that their Islamic experiment had gone bad, essentially, that the fanatics had gotten out of control. Bin Laden was part of that problem. They offered Saudi Arabia an extradition treaty - extradition of Bin Laden. The Saudis turned them down. They came to the United States and said "Do you want him?" and the Clinton administration said: No." -Mansoor Ijaz

EDIT: The Clinton Administration was actually offered Bin Laden 3 Times.

[Scotty Bones]

The government makes laws. You have to obey those laws or they will use force against you, like the police/justice system/correctional system. How can you consider controlling you to be ensuring freedom? That is a lack of freedom, plain and simple.

Thats Right. And We the People have the right to tell them no! The death of the resent amnesty bill is a great example of that. They proposed it, were going to pass it, and the people stood up and said NO.

[Dimitriid]

I thought a forum based on Linux would be a little less conservative, but well. I personally thing there is more than enough precedent to know that the American Government will never have the best interest of the general population as a priority, so it cannot be trusted to execute such methods of control: the country is slowly turning into a fully developed bourgeoisie dictatorship where they use the word "democracy" when self describing as a cruel joke on the working classes.

[Scotty Bones]

I thought a forum based on Linux would be a little less conservative, but well. I personally thing there is more than enough precedent to know that the American Government will never have the best interest of the general population as a priority, so it cannot be trusted to execute such methods of control: the country is slowly turning into a fully developed bourgeoisie dictatorship where they use the word "democracy" when self describing as a cruel joke on the working classes.

Yep. This country is going to hell in a hand basket really quick, and the Dems are carrying us all there kicking and screaming.

EDIT: I'm sorry to say that its going to take us loosing and entire city before these dem-wits realize that surrender is the wrong option.

EDIT: Yeah, the computer world needs to be seen from more of a liberal (or socialist) approach. But as for politics, no way.

[crimesaucer]

#1-"Or how about all the profits gained by the left-wing tree hugging lib's that make a ridiculous fortune every year by passing absolutely unnecessary so called environmental improvement bills..."


#2-"I hate to burst your perfect little bubble but Al Gore DID NOT invent the internet. It was developed by the US military as a closed, secure means of communication with missle silos during the cold war (come to think of it so was the microwave)."


#3-"EDIT: Not to mention that it was this effort that brought this country out of the Great Depression!"


#4-"I don't mean to start a political flame war here but i just hate it when people start bashing the right, when the left have done far worse."


#5-"without evil there can be no good.
without war there can be no peace."

HAHAHAHA....are you serious or is this some form of sarcasm....


#1- Oh Yeah, those EVIL environmentalist...those wealthy tree huggers and their privileged lives...



#2- Al Gore didn't invent the internet....oh my!!!...I didn't know that....but what a beautiful invention...the Microwave[radio relay...edited]....like it would of not been invented without being used in a military project, like the advancement of civilian communications wouldn't of invented the exact same technology...



#3- The Great Depression affected a lot of the Western World... it's a shame that people like you think the only way to fix the solution is to go to war, and get people to put in the effort of recycling metals and doing volunteer work just so we can build military weaponry that will kill people and blow everything up, and eventually become useless destructed cities...it seems that if people bonded together like they do for your "war effort", but for a "real effort" to help the world, that we could fix any economic problem worldwide...without all of the death and destruction.

....Or could we have also been brought out of the Great Depression from the Unconstitutional Deportation Of 1-2 million Mexican Americans during the 1930's. Citizens born as Legal Americans with rights, deported unjustly to steal their legally owned farm land (most of the good land in the Southern States), and to give work to White Americans that had been competing with legal Mexican Americans for jobs.....http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3935/is_200601/ai_n17184253

...Or say, maybe some of the money made from Companies that had business transactions for profit with Nazi Germany during the rise of Hitler (supporting him and putting him into power), and all the way up to the point of the war, 6 days after Pearl Harbor (December 11, 1941).

...And, let's not forget the illegal companies that made profits from the Nazi war camps after Roosevelt had signed the "Trading With the Enemy Act" such as George H.W. Bush's father, Prescott Bush, and his ties to Consolidated Silesian Steel Company.

...Or other companies such as IBM, Ford, STP, and Coca-Cola that made money from the Nazis in your WW2 solution to debt.



#4- I think you have had your head in your military microwave just a little too long to come up with that statement.



#5- These are some assorted quotes that Robert Anton Wilson (RIP) grouped together about war, the first one is his, and it's just another Bush scandal...how many is that now???:

"In 1932, Standard Oil struck oil in the British protectorate of Bahrein
in the Persian Gulf and all the major powers began decades of covert and
overt struggle to control that region, of which the current culmination,
as I write this (1991), includes George Bush Jr. (George II) owning most
of the oil in Bahrein and George Bush Sr. (George I) declaring that the
U.S. has a 'moral' imperative to police that area. Today (1991), American
missiles are raining on Iraq and Iraqi missiles are bombarding Israel.
(The American missiles are 'good' because they only kill 'bad' people; the
Iraqi missiles are 'bad' because they kill 'good' people. Understand? I am
writing about the Planet of the [Naked] Apes.)"-- Robert Anton Wilson


"Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace"--Harry Elmer Barnes, historian


"A free government with an uncontrolled power of military conscription is
the most ridiculous and abominable contradiction and nonsense that ever
entered into the head of man."--Daniel Webster, speech in the House
ofRepresentatives, January 14, 1814


"Every government is run by liars and nothing they say should be believed."
I.F. Stone


"Government is an association of men (and women) who do violence to the
rest of us."--Leo Tolstoy


"there are no righteous wars"--Ezra Pound


"War is a crime. Ask the infantry. Ask the dead."--Ernest Hemingway

[crimesaucer]

crimesaucer,

Jimmy Carter, are you kidding me!! Carter was a sissy and probably one of worst presidents ever.
Our entire welfare system is in shambles because of this man. and this is the boy that let American hostages rot in the terran embasy for over 400 days. That over a year. We didn't get our people back till Ragan threatened to bomb the crap out of them as his first act as president. Carter, what a joke.

EDIT: All Carter does now days is bash America in the International spotlight. This is not exceptable behavior from a former president. Even Clinton wont have anything to do with him (EDIT: Or any other living president for that matter!). I for one will be glad when this man passes away.

As for Clinton. The man only became President because of campaign finance from China. Most of which he probably used to pay Ross Perot to run so he could steal votes. Just remember the Clinton did not obtain a majority of the popular vote either time. At least JFK had standards. or how about this

"In Feb of 96' the Sudanese had come to the conclusion that their Islamic experiment had gone bad, essentially, that the fanatics had gotten out of control. Bin Laden was part of that problem. They offered Saudi Arabia an extradition treaty - extradition of Bin Laden. The Saudis turned them down. They came to the United States and said "Do you want him?" and the Clinton administration said: No." -Mansoor Ijaz

EDIT: The Clinton Administration was actually offered Bin Laden 3 Times.


Yeah!!!!!! BOMB everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NUKE THEM ALL FOR AMERICA AND BASEBALL....AND APPLE PIE!!!!!!!!!!! Don't be a sissy, Nuke 'em!!!!



... and NO, Carter didn't let Hostages rot in a cell....the Reagan Kitchen Cabinet made them ROT in a cell in order to sway momentum for the 1980 election in the Republican favor... Carter had finally negotiated a release and it was the Republicans that left them rotting as you say.....and really 444 days is not that long.



I'm pretty much done with this debate, your arguments are so brainwashed right, I have nothing else to say to you or anyone like you.


I hope you enjoy the world you create and support.

[Scotty Bones]

1. As for your tree huggers,
well, you don't see me spending $15,000 on a haircut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1125528/posts
Hell for that matter i wish i owned somewhere around $33 million in estate. Have you seen this man's Estates. How about that private jet? Wow our money at hard work, I'm feeling the sudden urge to hug a tree. (And Kerry is only one example, a man for the poor my A$$) Bush may be making his money from oil but at least he isn't using environmental scar tactics and medical lawsuits to make his money. This is why Health care is so darn expensive. As for the oil, Hay Europe pays per liter what we pay per gallon. (you do the math on that). As long as our oil is the cheapest i'm happy. We may use 75% percent of the worlds oil, but we also supply 70% of the worlds food.

2 & 4. The Microwave
This is exactly what i mean about technologies we take for granted. I say microwave and you immediately think of that little box in your kitchen.
How about the Telecommunications Industry. What did you think those satellite dishes work by magic. How about the medical industry, some forms of mw's are use in radiation therapy to eradicate cancer. It's wonderful to see such and amazing advancement summed up by an idiot and his hot pocket.

3. There is nothing like a good war to fule the economy. Hay look the DOW's back up. Oh yes, and by the way we did sell weapons, equipment and supplies to both sides before entering WW2. Why? It boosted the GNP and stimulated industry. It's not the only way to make money, but it sure does make a hell lot of it. Not to mention the benefits of technological advancement.
He who has the biggest toy, makes the rules. I would much rather be the dumper than the dumped on. And with percission weapons we take out only the necessary targets leaving the majority of the infrastructure intact. Then comes the task of rebuilding; schools, hospitals, etc..., We blowup whats necessary and rebuild the rest. Take Japan for example, we dropped two nukes on 'em and look at them today. Their achievements are largely due to our rebuilding effort. It may cost a lot in the beginning but it payed off in the end.
Hitler made himself my friend (reminds me a lot of Clinton, very charming and charismatic. It's that ability to draw in the croud with nothing but your voice). Oh and by the way Hitler did do a lot of good for the German people (in the beginning), but he used the same approach we do to get ourselves out of depression, WAR. This man built the autobaun and put 2 cars in every germans geruage. (ever heard of VW). Cheap affordable cars for everyone. Plus many other things. Albeit he was also a psycho.
I guess the major point here is MONEY, and we made a lot of it. Isn't the point of capitalism any way?
Besides you can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs. War is what it is and what it will always be, a means of straightening out those who have stepped out of line. And who is it that has stepped out of line do you ask? The looser of course. Thats why history is written by the Victor. It has been this way since the beginning of time and will be that way till the end.
As for the beaners, oh well. How about Bushes first round of amnesty. How many Millions of mexican illegals did that make legal, and how many more are still jumping the boarders today. And don't forget the Japs we rounded up after pearl harbor. Both sides had the concentration camps and deportations.

5. This ones probably your best quote
We are the music-makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams- Willy Wonka.
so keep dreaming!

[Scotty Bones]

Yeah!!!!!! BOMB everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NUKE THEM ALL FOR AMERICA AND BASEBALL....AND APPLE PIE!!!!!!!!!!! Don't be a sissy, Nuke 'em!!!!



... and NO, Carter didn't let Hostages rot in a cell....the Reagan Kitchen Cabinet made them ROT in a cell in order to sway momentum for the 1980 election in the Republican favor... Carter had finally negotiated a release and it was the Republicans that left them rotting as you say.....and really 444 days is not that long.



I'm pretty much done with this debate, your arguments are so brainwashed right, I have nothing else to say to you or anyone like you.


I hope you enjoy the world you create and support.

Well your almost there
Your right, it wasn't a cell, It was an Embassy which is considered to be American soil.
How would you like it if i took 444 days of your life away. (so don't be retarded)

[crimesaucer]

1. As for your tree huggers,
well, you don't see me spending $15,000 on a haircut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1125528/posts
Hell for that matter i wish i owned somewhere around $33 million in estate. Have you seen this man's Estates. How about that private jet? Wow our money at hard work, I'm feeling the sudden urge to hug a tree. (And Kerry is only one example, a man for the poor my A$$) Bush may be making his money from oil but at least he isn't using environmental scar tactics and medical lawsuits to make his money. This is why Health care is so darn expensive. As for the oil, Hay Europe pays per liter what we pay per gallon. (you do the math on that). As long as our oil is the cheapest i'm happy. We may use 75% percent of the worlds oil, but we also supply 70% of the worlds food.

2 & 4. The Microwave
This is exactly what i mean about technologies we take for granted. I say microwave and you immediately think of that little box in your kitchen.
How about the Telecommunications Industry. What did you think those satellite dishes work by magic. How about the medical industry, some forms of mw's are use in radiation therapy to eradicate cancer. It's wonderful to see such and amazing advancement summed up by an idiot and his hot pocket.

3. There is nothing like a good war to fule the economy. Hay look the DOW's back up. Oh yes, and by the way we did sell weapons, equipment and supplies to both sides before entering WW2. Why? It boosted the GNP and stimulated industry. It's not the only way to make money, but it sure does make a hell lot of it. Not to mention the benefits of technological advancement.
He who has the biggest toy, makes the rules. I would much rather be the dumper than the dumped on. And with percission weapons we take out only the necessary targets leaving the majority of the infrastructure intact. Then comes the task of rebuilding; schools, hospitals, etc..., We blowup whats necessary and rebuild the rest. Take Japan for example, we dropped two nukes on 'em and look at them today. Their achievements are largely due to our rebuilding effort. It may cost a lot in the beginning but it payed off in the end.
Hitler made himself my friend (reminds me a lot of Clinton, very charming and charismatic. It's that ability to draw in the croud with nothing but your voice). Oh and by the way Hitler did do a lot of good for the German people (in the beginning), but he used the same approach we do to get ourselves out of depression, WAR. This man built the autobaun and put 2 cars in every germans geruage. (ever heard of VW). Cheap affordable cars for everyone. Plus many other things. Albeit he was also a psycho.
I guess the major point here is MONEY, and we made a lot of it. Isn't the point of capitalism any way?
Besides you can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs. War is what it is and what it will always be, a means of straightening out those who have stepped out of line. And who is it that has stepped out of line do you ask? The looser of course. Thats why history is written by the Victor. It has been this way since the beginning of time and will be that way till the end.
As for the beaners, oh well. How about Bushes first round of amnesty. How many Millions of mexican illegals did that make legal, and how many more are still jumping the boarders today. And don't forget the Japs we rounded up after pearl harbor. Both sides had the concentration camps and deportations.

5. This ones probably your best quote
We are the music-makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams- Willy Wonka.
so keep dreaming!


Well...these are your best quotes..."Hitler made himself my friend"...and..."Hitler did do a lot of good for the German people"...and..."I guess the major point here is MONEY, and we made a lot of it"...(is that you and the US Military or you and Hitler???)...and..."War is what it is and what it will always be, a means of straightening out those who have stepped out of line."...and..."As for the beaners, oh well."...and..."And don't forget the Japs"...and this one is really funny..."Bush may be making his money from oil but at least he isn't using environmental scar tactics and medical lawsuits to make his money."



Also, If you meant "Microwave Radio Relay", you should of said it, I'm sorry, I don't speak jarhead....and just so you know, scientist Heinrich Rudolf Hertz was the first to demonstrate the existence of electromagnetic waves in 1888, and scientists keep on with progress...and if the Military didn't use scientists to create their communications, scientists still would of invented all of the forms of Telecommunications we have today...the fact that you think war is necessary for invention and industry only furthers my argument.

[crimesaucer]

"This is exactly what i mean about technologies we take for granted." ---basically you're talking about technologies that you attribute to Military invention---



So you think that these inventions couldn't be achieved without a military goal...or funding. You think, that without the need to send military messages on a secure line, there would be no internet...without your buddy Hitler there would be no satellite communication, no jet propulsion??? That scientist would never think to invent advanced forms of communications and travel with out the need for war.

[univremonster]

change the thread title. CIA can't spy on Americans in the USA because they have no jurisdiction here.



Afraid of the police/Government? Just stay on the right side of the laws.

First off, yes it was the FBI I got that wrong, I heard it on the radio while driving so I didn't get the facts quite right, my bad. Here is the link to the actual article:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12131203

Second, just to make absolutely clear I'm not a criminal, this was more of a technological curiosity. In fact, this may be a large lapse in the FBI's security - think about it, if Ubuntu is completely immune to cipav or Magic Lantern, and it's free, that seems like about the easiest way to do whatever you want and not get caught. And the article specifically says Magic Lantern has to be "installed"...

Third point: The issue here was that the student was using Myspace to threaten the school. So depending on whether Myspace gives up the IP addresses of its users the FBI may have had issues determining his (street) address.

[juxtaposed]

This is not exceptable behavior from a former president.

Why not? Doesn't he have the right to say his opinion whenever he wants?


Thats Right. And We the People have the right to tell them no!

Not in the governments opinion...


well, you don't see me spending $15,000 on a haircut

Me neither.

Why would I care about John Kerry? Honestly, tell me one reason...



3. There is nothing like a good war to fule the economy.

That's the kind of thinking that scares me.

You're willing to have your country murder thousands just to help your economy?


Isn't the point of capitalism any way?

No, the point of capitalism is to exploit or be exploited. The point of capitalism is to make money off other peoples work.

Which is why I don't like it...


War is what it is and what it will always be, a means of straightening out those who have stepped out of line.

But why do you get to decide who has stepped out of line? I think america has, should some country invade them?

It's the "policing the world" that america does that I hate so much.

[univremonster]

ahem...

While it's lovely to see so many patriotic people on both sides of the aisles, this discussion has taken sharp turn towards partisan bickering rather than a discussion of Linux and spyware. One of the Ubuntu staff has recently moved the forum to the Backyard from the Cafe, and while I have requested that he move it back I have to agree that on the current topics it belongs in the Backyard. If we could please steer the conversation back towards what it is intended to be, you will find plenty of places to argue about Reagan, Carter, Kerry, and both of the Clintons and Bushs and their associated posses here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=121

[Scotty Bones]

ahem...

While it's lovely to see so many patriotic people on both sides of the aisles, this discussion has taken sharp turn towards partisan bickering rather than a discussion of Linux and spyware. One of the Ubuntu staff has recently moved the forum to the Backyard from the Cafe, and while I have requested that he move it back I have to agree that on the current topics it belongs in the Backyard. If we could please steer the conversation back towards what it is intended to be, you will find plenty of places to argue about Reagan, Carter, Kerry, and both of the Clintons and Bushs and their associated posses here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=121

I do appologize, it was never my intention to change the topic of the thread, just to add my 2 cents. Had I realized that that 2 cents would have become a C-note I probably would have just said nothing.

[univremonster]

I do appologize, it was never my intention to change the topic of the thread, just to add my 2 cents. Had I realized that that 2 cents would have become a C-note I probably would have just said nothing.

It's ok, there are a lot of opinionated people on these forums and it's hard to avoid at times. Maybe a good metaphor for the original question is this:

Google installs spyware on users of its programs. Here is an excerpt from the Google privacy policy:

"Google maintains and processes personal information in order to provide your personalized homepage and other services. This information will be stored in a cookie on your machine and sent to Google when you request the page if you have set up a page without an associated Google Account, or transmitted to Google's servers and securely stored in association with your Google Account information if you are signed in to your Google Account."

Obviously these cookies still 'work' in Linux... so if Cipav were a cookie it would still work in Linux, right? So are these cookies spyware? Can cookies be spyware? Or do they need a little something more substantial? I'm just confused on what level of access you would need to somebody's computer in order to carry out this sort of e-sting operation.