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ThinkBuntu
July 11th, 2007, 03:14 PM
I'll make this quick...the vast majority of word processing that we and other computer users do is fairly simple, and can be done without OpenOffice. There was a time, before Microsoft Word became a de facto standard, when word processors didn't have oh so much bloat. Back then, I always used ClarisWorks which, while limited by today's standards, was considered fairly full-featured back then and is comparable to Abiword now.

Anyway, this is no place for a long rant on the state of word processors. Abiword is available for Mac, Windows, and of course, Unix and Linux. I highly recommend it for almost all word processing!

If you're concerned with how your document will look when finished (business proposal, etc.) you'll probably find that you can tweak its look to your heart's content in Scribus, Apple's "Ink", or any other variety of publishing programs suited to the task.

I'll elaborate my thoughts a bit more later, as I'm at work and have to wrap up this little web app's look and feel.

P.S. If anyone has any tips for using AbiWord (favorite plugins, customizations, etc.) please post them here. And after you're finished with this post, imagine how much more neat software Ubuntu could fit on its install disc if it substituted Abiword and Gnumeric for OOo Writer and Calc. Impress, of course, is probably the best for presenations. I imagine Scribus, Inkscape, GEdit's plugins, and many other important tools would be great if included, although that's for another board.

LaRoza
July 11th, 2007, 03:23 PM
P.S. If anyone has any tips for using AbiWord (favorite plugins, customizations, etc.) please post them here. And after you're finished with this post, imagine how much more neat software Ubuntu could fit on its install disc if it substituted Abiword and Gnumeric for OOo Writer and Calc. Impress, of course, is probably the best for presenations. I imagine Scribus, Inkscape, GEdit's plugins, and many other important tools would be great if included, although that's for another board.

Abiword Portable at portableapps.com.

I use Abiword all the time, it is great.

There is also an OpenOffice portable, but I use abiword.

ThinkBuntu
July 11th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Abiword Portable at portableapps.com.

I use Abiword all the time, it is great.

There is also an OpenOffice portable, but I use abiword.
Call me crazy, but isn't it wrong that no individual feature stored on an Ubuntu disc takes more space than a suite designed mostly for Microsoft Office compatibility? I feel like we're gipping the end user. But that's just my opinion, and there are many people with more experience who see some wisdom in slapping this app on the majority of Linux OS.

Anyway, this is distracting. Back to work!

LaRoza
July 11th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Call me crazy, but isn't it wrong that no individual feature stored on an Ubuntu disc takes more space than a suite designed mostly for Microsoft Office compatibility? I feel like we're gipping the end user. But that's just my opinion, and there are many people with more experience who see some wisdom in slapping this app on the majority of Linux OS.

Anyway, this is distracting. Back to work!

I would say that OO is built for compatibility for StarOffice, not MS Office.

Hex_Mandos
July 11th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Well, most people I know care more for MS office compatibility than speed. Abiword is great, but I can install it with a single command. Plus, it already comes with Xubuntu, so people needing some light OS will have AbiWord by default.

Nekiruhs
July 11th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Abiword Portable at portableapps.com.

I use Abiword all the time, it is great.

There is also an OpenOffice portable, but I use abiword.
I love that site! It has so many useful apps there, I use them all the time at school. Also that was the site that actually convinced me to make the switch.

50words
July 11th, 2007, 04:51 PM
I love AbiWord, but until it supports .odt files, it doesn't do me much good.

LaRoza
July 11th, 2007, 04:58 PM
I love that site! It has so many useful apps there, I use them all the time at school. Also that was the site that actually convinced me to make the switch.

I use many portableapps, not all of them are on that site.

I have over 50 portableapps. I use them at school, I don't use anything but their OS.

reclusivemonkey
July 11th, 2007, 05:05 PM
I much prefer to use Gnumeric over OOCalc. I've also never had a problem with using Excel files in Gnumeric (simple spreadsheets of course) but OOCalc has often corrupted them. This was some time ago though. I do think however that the Gnome Office Suite should be standard on Ubuntu, not Open Office. Ubuntu is supposed to be the premier Gnome desktop isn't it?

justin whitaker
July 11th, 2007, 05:26 PM
I much prefer to use Gnumeric over OOCalc. I've also never had a problem with using Excel files in Gnumeric (simple spreadsheets of course) but OOCalc has often corrupted them. This was some time ago though. I do think however that the Gnome Office Suite should be standard on Ubuntu, not Open Office. Ubuntu is supposed to be the premier Gnome desktop isn't it?

Gnumeric rocks....not so sure about Abiword. It has major issues with some formating that we use at work, where OOo does not. Still, you are right, Ubuntu is supposed to be the championing the Gnome desktop, so choosing OOo instead of Gnome Office seems a little odd.

But then, by extension, shouldn't we be using Epiphany?

reclusivemonkey
July 11th, 2007, 05:31 PM
But then, by extension, shouldn't we be using Epiphany?

Interesting point. If it works, then maybe yes. By definition, anyone who wants to use Firefox knows it must be installed and will probably be able to do this in a few seconds. However I think with surfing the web, this is such a ubiquitous activity we need to chose the best tool for the job regardless of desktop integration; in this case I suspect Firefox wins. I may be doing Epiphany a disservice there. Opera lovers; its not free so the standard compliance winner doesn't necessarily get the vote ;-P

igknighted
July 11th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Gnumeric rocks....not so sure about Abiword. It has major issues with some formating that we use at work, where OOo does not. Still, you are right, Ubuntu is supposed to be the championing the Gnome desktop, so choosing OOo instead of Gnome Office seems a little odd.

But then, by extension, shouldn't we be using Epiphany?

Yes, if Ubuntu was indeed "championing the gnome desktop". FF is bloated and not that great, I would welcome that change. However, I don't think Ubuntu is dedicated to gnome as much as it is dedicated to making linux usable. In this case, OpenOffice and Firefox fit right in to the Ubuntu philosophy. In this regard, I don't understand why Thunderbird isn't the default mail client (or claws), but that is a discussion for another time/place.

justin whitaker
July 11th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Yes, if Ubuntu was indeed "championing the gnome desktop". FF is bloated and not that great, I would welcome that change. However, I don't think Ubuntu is dedicated to gnome as much as it is dedicated to making linux usable. In this case, OpenOffice and Firefox fit right in to the Ubuntu philosophy. In this regard, I don't understand why Thunderbird isn't the default mail client (or claws), but that is a discussion for another time/place.

And a discussion that has been done to death too, right? :)

reclusivemonkey
July 11th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Yes, if Ubuntu was indeed "championing the gnome desktop". FF is bloated and not that great, I would welcome that change. However, I don't think Ubuntu is dedicated to gnome as much as it is dedicated to making linux usable. In this case, OpenOffice and Firefox fit right in to the Ubuntu philosophy. In this regard, I don't understand why Thunderbird isn't the default mail client (or claws), but that is a discussion for another time/place.

I would think that is because Evolution is integrated into the Gnome desktop unless I am very much mistaken.

ThinkBuntu
July 11th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I would think that is because Evolution is integrated into the Gnome desktop unless I am very much mistaken.
Sorry I mentioned about which apps Ubuntu uses, because these arguments are hijacking the thread. This thread is really just about AbiWord, using AbiWord, AbiWord vs OpenOffice writer, and maybe a bit about Gnumeric.

igknighted
July 11th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Sorry I mentioned about which apps Ubuntu uses, because these arguments are hijacking the thread. This thread is really just about AbiWord, using AbiWord, AbiWord vs OpenOffice writer, and maybe a bit about Gnumeric.

Abiword rocks... I love it. The only feature I miss from OO.o is automatic citations for my uni papers, other than that its abiword FTW.

LaRoza
July 11th, 2007, 05:57 PM
Sorry I mentioned about which apps Ubuntu uses, because these arguments are hijacking the thread. This thread is really just about AbiWord, using AbiWord, AbiWord vs OpenOffice writer, and maybe a bit about Gnumeric.

Use Abiword or die!

ThinkBuntu
July 11th, 2007, 06:03 PM
Use Abiword or die!
That's the spirit! Just kidding.

justin whitaker
July 11th, 2007, 06:07 PM
That's the spirit! Just kidding.

Abiword uber Alles?

LaRoza
July 11th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Abiword uber Alles?

...in der Welt.

kadath
July 12th, 2007, 11:24 PM
I love AbiWord, but until it supports .odt files, it doesn't do me much good.

Abiword can open and save .odt files just fine for me. Do you have the abiword-plugins package installed?

I love Abiword. Open Office Writer is bloated. The average person would be just fine with Abiword for their word processing needs.

Onyros
July 13th, 2007, 12:14 AM
I'm another Abiword user, only gripes I have with it are the fact that it tends to take longer to load bigger documents, and sometimes scrolling through documents seems somewhat slower than on OpenOffice.

Even so, nowadays, only thing I use OOo is for those unfortunate .ppt files I still receive.

I'll also second that Gnumeric is far superior to OOo Calc.

Hex_Mandos
July 13th, 2007, 02:15 AM
A big problem with replacing OOo with AbiWord would be that OOo is a complete suite. Abiword and Gnumeric are good, but what presentation program does GNOME have? What Access-like db is available? What about OOo Draw? I'd rather have OOo and supplement it with other software.

JacobRogers
July 13th, 2007, 02:16 AM
I like abi-word but it always look weird on my Mac. I'm a neooffice and open office fan, honestly.

ThinkBuntu
July 13th, 2007, 03:59 AM
A big problem with replacing OOo with AbiWord would be that OOo is a complete suite. Abiword and Gnumeric are good, but what presentation program does GNOME have? What Access-like db is available? What about OOo Draw? I'd rather have OOo and supplement it with other software.
You can install just OOo Impress if you need to work on presentations. And I'm sure everyone has their own taste, but I think that Inkscape really is Linux' premier drawing program.

Hex_Mandos
July 13th, 2007, 04:47 AM
I'd say Inkscape is another thing entirely when compared to OOo Draw. The latter is useful for diagrams and flowcharts, not the kind of things Inkscape is meant for.

As for installing OOImpress, doesn't it require the OOo core? Plus, we'd be losing OOo's best feature (close integration between the different programs in the suite). Installing AbiWord separately seems to make more sense than doing that with OOo.

ThinkBuntu
July 13th, 2007, 06:00 AM
I'd say Inkscape is another thing entirely when compared to OOo Draw. The latter is useful for diagrams and flowcharts, not the kind of things Inkscape is meant for.

As for installing OOImpress, doesn't it require the OOo core? Plus, we'd be losing OOo's best feature (close integration between the different programs in the suite). Installing AbiWord separately seems to make more sense than doing that with OOo.
You'll do no better than Dia for diagrams and flowcharts. And while I know nothing about UML, KDE's Umbrello looks like it would be a great deal for diagramming with UML. I remember trying to chalk up some random diagram in the program, and it prevented me because my charts were going against the UML rules/standard.

bread eyes
July 13th, 2007, 06:07 AM
Abiword lacks a lot stuff. It might be fine for you but, if someone was expecting something with as much stuff as MS word they would be very disappointed.

kadath
July 13th, 2007, 06:14 AM
Abiword lacks a lot stuff. It might be fine for you but, if someone was expecting something with as much stuff as MS word they would be very disappointed.

I would thing that if someone really needs the closest equivalent to Word, they'd go for OO Writer. But really, Abiword is perfectly find for most needs.

ThinkBuntu
July 13th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Abiword lacks a lot stuff. It might be fine for you but, if someone was expecting something with as much stuff as MS word they would be very disappointed.
Yes, it's lacking features. Yes, these features are seldom if ever used by the average user. And yes, if fancy formatting is a concern, you're better off with Scribus or even Inkscape anyway.

racoq
July 13th, 2007, 02:58 PM
You'll do no better than Dia for diagrams and flowcharts. And while I know nothing about UML, KDE's Umbrello looks like it would be a great deal for diagramming with UML. I remember trying to chalk up some random diagram in the program, and it prevented me because my charts were going against the UML rules/standard.

You are not suggesting , the inclusion of an KDE application, (and all its KDE dependencies), in gnome right?
That would be plain nonsense

As it was said here earlier, i agree that the tight integration between all the applications of the OO, is one of its main advantage.

I remembered when i've had xubuntu installed, i used Abiword, and all that i can say, its that it doesn't is has compatible to the .doc format as OO writer is. Try exporting large and complex, documents to the word 97 format on both programs, and you will see which will do it better.

So if Ubuntu wants to keep attracting windows users, and promoting interoperability between both systems Abiword isn't good enough.

Also the OO's, ODF is a standard format, being used more and more as days pass, on the other hand, the format of the abiword (abw i think) its not a standard format.

urukrama
July 14th, 2007, 04:07 PM
Abiword is nice and light, but one thing I dislike about it is that you don't get a preview in the font dialog (on the toolbar) and can't change fonts or fonts sizes in those dialogs with the up/down arrows (you have to click them with the mouse).

I always use OpenOffice, which suits all my needs, but keep Abiword because some MS Word documents don't open properly in OO, but do so reasonably in Abiword.

Hex_Mandos
July 14th, 2007, 06:01 PM
You'll do no better than Dia for diagrams and flowcharts. And while I know nothing about UML, KDE's Umbrello looks like it would be a great deal for diagramming with UML. I remember trying to chalk up some random diagram in the program, and it prevented me because my charts were going against the UML rules/standard.

And I get a weird mix of apps that not necessarily work well with each other. No, thanks. If need a specific app, I'll install it myself. For most stuff, OOo's integration and MS Office compatibility are killer features.

crimesaucer
July 14th, 2007, 06:09 PM
I have a really stupid question:


If I write my "resume.rtf" on AbiWord using Linux fonts, and then send a copy of it to an employer that uses Windows to open up my email "resume.rtf" attachment, will my same Linux fonts show, or should I use universal fonts like Arial and Sans?

Anthem
July 14th, 2007, 06:34 PM
For my personal use, I like AbiWord and Gnumeric far more then their OOo equivilents. They're faster, lighter, more responsive, and do 90% of what I need done. I wouldn't install them as the default, but I always install them immediately.

I've never understood why Gnome didn't create a cross-platform "GOffice" suite with AbiWord/Gnumberic. Just seems odd.

ThinkBuntu
July 16th, 2007, 06:26 PM
I have a really stupid question:


If I write my "resume.rtf" on AbiWord using Linux fonts, and then send a copy of it to an employer that uses Windows to open up my email "resume.rtf" attachment, will my same Linux fonts show, or should I use universal fonts like Arial and Sans?
It'll default to their base font. It's best to use a Windows font in these cases (which are nearly all if distribution's involved of any sort), and I don't know if you can use font ranks like you can in CSS (font-family: dejavu-sans, arial, sans-serif;)

ThinkBuntu
July 17th, 2007, 12:42 AM
What's interesting is that Fedora includes Abiword and Gnumeric by default.

crimesaucer
July 17th, 2007, 01:36 AM
It'll default to their base font. It's best to use a Windows font in these cases (which are nearly all if distribution's involved of any sort), and I don't know if you can use font ranks like you can in CSS (font-family: dejavu-sans, arial, sans-serif;)

Thanks, now I know to send the resume using arial and sans.

ThinkBuntu
July 17th, 2007, 01:48 AM
Thanks, now I know to send the resume using arial and sans.
Just install Abiword. It has its own ugly version of Times New Roman if you don't like MSTT-core fonts. Also, I didn't intend that smiley; it came from my combined semi-colon (end of a style) and the close parens.

kiddo
July 17th, 2007, 03:09 AM
I would really like to use abiword full-time, I really want to. But I can't. I'm not even a power user, just a regular college student who cares about typographic rules and document design.

My requirements are as follow:

full opendocument compatibility (and they repeatedly stated they will not use opendocument as default (http://www.abisource.com/twiki/bin/view/Abiword/FaqOASISSupport)); they have filters but the opendocument bugs are too many (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=odt) (I did report about twenty of them or something like that). Also see the features that Abiword can't support in OpenDocument (http://www.abisource.com/twiki/bin/view/Abiword/OpenDocument)
decent media support (that means native JPEG support at least (http://www.abisource.com/mailinglists/abiword-dev/2007/May/0043.html))
usable "stylesheets" (like OO Writer's stylist); abiword's styles GUI is a complete disaster
various less important bugs in my list (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&email1=nekohayo%40gmail.com&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1), and other bugs of interest (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=AbiWord&product=AbiWord+Plugins&component=Editing+-+Images&component=Editing+-+Reveal+Codes&component=Editing+-+Table+of+Contents&component=Editing+-+Visual+Drag+and+Drop&component=Export+-+OpenDocument&component=Import+-+OpenDocument&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=)


I've put a lot of effort into reporting bugs and commenting in the past two years, but I'm pretty much stuffed. The development is too slow, I just decided I should go back to being productive as a student and actually use the darn software. And I realized that if you have a gig of ram and the OpenOffice QuickStarter activated, OpenOffice is not really that bloated. I mean, it can start in 5-7 seconds cold start, or 1-3 seconds warm, which is pretty equal to Abiword. Oh, and OpenOffice seems to be doing some significant efforts to shed its reputation of bloatware and optimize its performance. I found this wiki page (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Integrated_Performance_Improvements), which I am watching for changes with Specto ;) it is encouraging.


I'll also second that Gnumeric is far superior to OOo Calc.
If that's not too much to ask, please elaborate (disclaimer: I use gnumeric full time, but the only spreadsheet document I own is some basic statistics of Dell's computer prices over time, for fun).
I would like to be proven that gnumeric surpasses Calc. Well, one thing I noticed is that it automatically updates charts (OOcalc needs manual refreshing, how dumb), they are nicely antialiased, and gnumeric is VERY fast.

crimesaucer
July 17th, 2007, 03:34 AM
Just install Abiword. It has its own ugly version of Times New Roman if you don't like MSTT-core fonts. Also, I didn't intend that smiley; it came from my combined semi-colon (end of a style) and the close parens.


Well, I use xubuntu, so it comes with AbiWord pre-installed...I like it better then OpenOffice for the minimal things I use a word processor for.


I had already made my Chef's Resume with some beautiful Linux fonts (Nimbus Sans L, URW Gothic L, and Baekmuk Dotum), but just in case, I made a back up of my resume with fonts that I know Microsoft Word uses (Arial and FreeSans). That's why I asked the question, because I didn't know if I could send my resume as a .rtf attachment that would use my Linux fonts.


...it's too bad, the Linux resume looks a lot better (Nimbus is a cool font)....I'll have to print that one out and put it on some nice professional resume paper since it looks so good.

Anthem
July 17th, 2007, 03:43 AM
If that's not too much to ask, please elaborate (disclaimer: I use gnumeric full time, but the only spreadsheet document I own is some basic statistics of Dell's computer prices over time, for fun).
I would like to be proven that gnumeric surpasses Calc. Well, one thing I noticed is that it automatically updates charts (OOcalc needs manual refreshing, how dumb), they are nicely antialiased, and gnumeric is VERY fast.
Well, basic features are at parity, so it's difficult to "prove" that one's better than the other. But I prefer gnumeric for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Especially the last one.

steven8
July 17th, 2007, 04:15 PM
I've used abiword and like it, but Oo Word Processor and I like it too. I just installed gnumeric, and I REALLY like it. I do like calc, but gnumeric is sweet!

LaRoza
July 17th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Why don't we all just use Microsoft Office Word 2007?

ThinkBuntu
July 17th, 2007, 05:26 PM
I would really like to use abiword full-time, I really want to. But I can't. I'm not even a power user, just a regular college student who cares about typographic rules and document design.

My requirements are as follow:

full opendocument compatibility (and they repeatedly stated they will not use opendocument as default (http://www.abisource.com/twiki/bin/view/Abiword/FaqOASISSupport)); they have filters but the opendocument bugs are too many (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=odt) (I did report about twenty of them or something like that). Also see the features that Abiword can't support in OpenDocument (http://www.abisource.com/twiki/bin/view/Abiword/OpenDocument)
decent media support (that means native JPEG support at least (http://www.abisource.com/mailinglists/abiword-dev/2007/May/0043.html))
usable "stylesheets" (like OO Writer's stylist); abiword's styles GUI is a complete disaster
various less important bugs in my list (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&email1=nekohayo%40gmail.com&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1), and other bugs of interest (http://bugzilla.abisource.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=AbiWord&product=AbiWord+Plugins&component=Editing+-+Images&component=Editing+-+Reveal+Codes&component=Editing+-+Table+of+Contents&component=Editing+-+Visual+Drag+and+Drop&component=Export+-+OpenDocument&component=Import+-+OpenDocument&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=)


I've put a lot of effort into reporting bugs and commenting in the past two years, but I'm pretty much stuffed. The development is too slow, I just decided I should go back to being productive as a student and actually use the darn software. And I realized that if you have a gig of ram and the OpenOffice QuickStarter activated, OpenOffice is not really that bloated. I mean, it can start in 5-7 seconds cold start, or 1-3 seconds warm, which is pretty equal to Abiword. Oh, and OpenOffice seems to be doing some significant efforts to shed its reputation of bloatware and optimize its performance. I found this wiki page (http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Integrated_Performance_Improvements), which I am watching for changes with Specto ;) it is encouraging.


If that's not too much to ask, please elaborate (disclaimer: I use gnumeric full time, but the only spreadsheet document I own is some basic statistics of Dell's computer prices over time, for fun).
I would like to be proven that gnumeric surpasses Calc. Well, one thing I noticed is that it automatically updates charts (OOcalc needs manual refreshing, how dumb), they are nicely antialiased, and gnumeric is VERY fast.

The .abw format is an open format and is pure XML. Open a file in a text editor and you'll see what I mean. Open Document support is fine, and I'm sure it can be enhanced by plugins
JPEG and other inline image support: Plugin
Styles aren't robust, and neither is this app. If you need fancy styling, you should add finishing touches in Scribus or just use OpenOffice for both tasks.
I haven't experienced any bugs, so I can't speak for the app's bugginess.

Joer4x4
July 17th, 2007, 11:32 PM
I like the concept of Abiword but in reality it's a disaster for serious work.

1. Poor GUI and font rendering
2. Poor table handling. (Why even bother?)
3. Crashes on large documents.
4. Poor MS capability (way too important to ignore).
5 Very buggy.

Feature wise it's fine but you would think that it would "do it right" for what it has. I understand they are working on collaboration for Abiword??? Forget that...get the basics right.

OO is all there is and that's unfortunate. Gnome office is a joke. I can't even use Gnumeric because it doesn't import the notes on a spreadsheet. What a concept! LOL!

This is what holds back Linux, half hearted apps or lack apps.

kiddo
July 18th, 2007, 02:01 AM
The .abw format is an open format and is pure XML. Open a file in a text editor and you'll see what I mean. Open Document support is fine, and I'm sure it can be enhanced by plugins
JPEG and other inline image support: Plugin
Styles aren't robust, and neither is this app. If you need fancy styling, you should add finishing touches in Scribus or just use OpenOffice for both tasks.
I haven't experienced any bugs, so I can't speak for the app's bugginess.

I know that .abw is pure XML, but for some obscure reason I favour opendocument. Because it's an ISO standard. Because a lot more people use it, and because other apps are committed to supporting it. The abiword format is supported by abiword only (maybe koffice too, if I'm not mistaken). That's terrible. I want a format to free me from applications. Imagine a pie chart of office document usage. It would be almost entirely occupied by MSO Doc/OOXML Doc, then a smaller portion of the pie would be OASIS ODT (openoffice), and an even smaller portion would be occupied by the abiword format. I don't want to use it because of that.
Both formats are open. One is much, much more widely used. The Koffice guys seem to have understood that when they decided to use ODF as the default, and I admire them for that (though I never use Koffice).

JPEG support does not need to be a plugin. Heck, abiword does support JPEG, but as I said, the problem lies in the fact that it actually converts all JPEGs (and others) to PNG, rendering most documents unusable. It is a bug, not a missing feature. And it has been there for years, sadly :(

Styling: yeah, I have to use openoffice for that. And scribus? Maybe if I was a pro publisher for a magazine. But scribus is very, very scary to use (and it's uglier than OpenOffice!) and overkill for writing papers.

My abibugs are almost all related to opendocument, styling, images, tables. Other than that, if you are just writing some very simple text (just text, without changing much the styles of the headers often, without complicated columns, tables, lists, or photos), abiword is a very fine product. I like it and I hate it at the same time :) it is beautifully simple, but some missing basic features, at the end of the day, prevent me from having the joy of using it.

ThinkBuntu
July 18th, 2007, 05:05 PM
All good points. I think that Open Document support is a plugin as well. Unfortunately, I'm still not the right person to ask about the intricacies of Abiword or even Abiword's suitability for heavy use. I find that for day-to-day writing it's much nicer than a text editor, which is probably the next step down, and for basic writing it does the job well. I'm looking forward to when Abiword smooths a couple rough edges, because I think that much more work will need to be done to lighten OOo and make it user-friendly than to fix up these Abiword issues.

kadath
July 19th, 2007, 07:44 PM
I like the concept of Abiword but in reality it's a disaster for serious work.

1. Poor GUI and font rendering
2. Poor table handling. (Why even bother?)
3. Crashes on large documents.
4. Poor MS capability (way too important to ignore).
5 Very buggy.

Feature wise it's fine but you would think that it would "do it right" for what it has. I understand they are working on collaboration for Abiword??? Forget that...get the basics right.

OO is all there is and that's unfortunate. Gnome office is a joke. I can't even use Gnumeric because it doesn't import the notes on a spreadsheet. What a concept! LOL!

This is what holds back Linux, half hearted apps or lack apps.

1. What's wrong with the GUI? It's no worse than OO. Also, the font rendering looks fine to me. Looks the same as the rest of my system. I'll admit that Abiword on Windows does seem to have some font kerning issues though.

2. Never tried tables before, so I can't comment.

3. How large? How many pages / MB?

4. How does OO fare when opening the same .doc files?

5. What bugs have you run into? I don't use Abiword every day, but I've never run into any obvious bugs before.

Incense
July 19th, 2007, 07:57 PM
I love the speed of Abiword and gnumeric, but the formatting issues hold me back from useing abiword as my main word processer. I didn't know that there was an open doc plug in, which was another reason I didn't use it, so that's good to know. I would rather run it as a portable app at work for quick notes, then to wait for OOo portable to open. Good times...

JewelledDragon13
July 19th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Meh... gotta say I wasn't over-impressed with AbiWord. I used it for a while because word was lagging with long documents. Abiword does the same, and I don't see that it has any improvements to interface, etc, over Word. Also doesn't seem to handle images or tables very nicely.

OpenOffice, in my opinion, works better than AbiWord, but I still haven't found a word processor I'm entirely happy with.

Joer4x4
July 20th, 2007, 01:24 AM
1. What's wrong with the GUI? It's no worse than OO. Also, the font rendering looks fine to me. Looks the same as the rest of my system. I'll admit that Abiword on Windows does seem to have some font kerning issues though.

2. Never tried tables before, so I can't comment.

3. How large? How many pages / MB?

4. How does OO fare when opening the same .doc files?

5. What bugs have you run into? I don't use Abiword every day, but I've never run into any obvious bugs before.

1. At a glance ok but closer font spacing is not always even (also depends on the font). Font size of 12 looks like is in bold. When scrolling it all gets smeared and I have to scroll off the page and then slowly back to see text. GUI looks awful in 800x600. Also intermittent lines and anomalies show up. It has a slow GUI. You can't bang away and do things quickly. A slower pace seems to suit Abiword best.

2. Don't - you'll be disappointed at best

3. At 100 pages the GUI gets worse. Over that it crashes (program abruptly ends). I have a 180 page document it attempts to open then quits. This is all pretty much plan text. 1MB is out of the question. Abiword seems to handle 200 - 400kb ok. One thing is for sure, the larger it gets the poorer it performs.

4. Except for plain text Abiword is useless in reading and writing doc. It always picks up the text but the formatting is way off. When headers or letter head is smaller than paragraph text, thats a sign. OO is far better in every aspect in so far as performance and doing it right is concerned (that is, you may not care for what it does, but it does it quickly and right every time. OO just may be to this point better at .doc than MS.

5. Unable to control or manipulate table elements correctly. Deletes or moves (not all the time) text when selecting. When selecting a line of text from right to left (old habit), and the cursor changes to an arrow, it reselects text and drops the first few characters of the line. Have to change font manually (doesn't recognize its own config file) in every instance. Graphics may not show up or not inserted correctly. Formatting can be difficult to achieve without screwing up the whole document. Complex formatting is out of the question (many pictures, text boxes, text, etc..

These are just the major things off the top of my head. I don't recall everything but I had to let Abiword go :(

Just an observation. Abiword reminds me of a program that started out great but lost its soul along the way. It doesn't seem to have the same consistency or approach from function to function. beginning to end. It also doesn't do anything to make seem you more productive. It lacks a soul of its own and it may be the GUI.

Hendrixski
September 1st, 2007, 10:59 PM
I'll make this quick...the vast majority of word processing that we and other computer users do is fairly simple, and can be done without OpenOffice. There was a time, before Microsoft Word became a de facto standard, when word processors didn't have oh so much bloat. Back then, I always used ClarisWorks which, while limited by today's standards, was considered fairly full-featured back then and is comparable to Abiword now.


Very good point!
For the finer reasons of why you should use alternatives to MS office read this succint description of how MS Office locks you into Microsofts proprietary stack of applications and services while cutting out the competition, read this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=540016

If your government falls into this trap, guess whose taxes pay for it.

Lucifiel
September 1st, 2007, 11:35 PM
Well, the last time I tried AbiWord, it still had the very annoying issue of randomly scattering my text. No change for an issue I've encountered since 2 to 3 years.

kiddo
September 2nd, 2007, 03:57 AM
randomly scattering text? That's intriguing. Did you file a bug (http://bugzilla.abisource.com) about it?

Lucifiel
September 2nd, 2007, 04:02 AM
randomly scattering text? That's intriguing. Did you file a bug (http://bugzilla.abisource.com) about it?

Well, it often happened whenever I tried to select text and quite a few users have encountered this issue too. I don't think it was ever fixed and perhaps, I'll look into filing a bug later on.

For now, my best replacement is Koffice.

shuttleworthwannabe
September 2nd, 2007, 06:16 AM
If you are at varsity, then writing papers and publishing in peer-review journals is the norm; until Abiword can get a decent bibliographic function, OOoWriter+Bibus (or EndNote +MSWord) will be defacto standard. I realize software developers (EndNote especially) has to develop one for each WordProcessor, but they do not--I have even written to them, they just cater for MSWord.

So we should be thinking of users who come from various disciplines and cater for their needs. Abiword is excellent for usual wordproc, but fails, imo, because of a lack of bibliographic functionality.

RAV TUX
September 2nd, 2007, 06:40 AM
While I think anything is better then OOo & MS Word...

what about the other Linux options:

1. GNU TeXmacs (http://www.texmacs.org/tmweb/home/welcome.en.html)
2. Ted (http://www.nllgg.nl/Ted/)
3. LyX (http://www.lyx.org/)
4. KWord (http://www.koffice.org/kword/)
5. Groff (http://www.gnu.org/software/groff/)

I honestly have only used KWord out of the list above, I have used both OOo and Abiword, I find KWord much better then both, for a skinny word program, Ted sounds rather nice.

Bou
September 2nd, 2007, 11:44 AM
I love AbiWord, but until it supports .odt files, it doesn't do me much good.

I fully agree.

kadath
September 3rd, 2007, 05:12 AM
I also wish AbiWord used ODT as its default export format. The AbiWord format is useless unless you have access to AbiWord. I still use RTF for what little word processing I do because of this.

I'd like to move away from RTF but installing OOo Writer just to save my documents to ODT is overkill, really. AbiWord's ODT import/export isn't exactly flawless.

I suppose if I really wanted to convert my RTFs to ODT, Google Docs might pull it off just fine.

Fbot1
September 3rd, 2007, 05:35 AM
3. LyX (http://www.lyx.org/)


Lyx is great but it requires to much learning to suggest to the average user (it's not a lot but still).

UI-Freak
September 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I'll make this quick...the vast majority of word processing that we and other computer users do is fairly simple.

WHAT is your SOURCE for this claim? Speak for yourself, please, no one just a few that could use this buggy and basic word processor, but not for long, since they are beginning at the university and will soon have high demands. Thats the beauty about Writer and Word is that the features will be there, ready for use, when you need them.

Normally I recommend AbiWord only for people with limited computer power, but they are few and far between these days.

Lyx and Latex... face it... it is only for people like yourself.

bruce89
September 5th, 2007, 08:32 PM
I personally have added AbiWord and Gnumeric to my reinstall list.

Much nicer and faster. They are also sort of part of GNOME.

Kubuntu are considering replacing OO.o with KOffice by the way.

shuttleworthwannabe
September 7th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I have used KOffice; as a word proc it is really good. But again, there is no bibliographic software for academics for the word proc.

LaRoza
September 7th, 2007, 04:10 PM
WHAT is your SOURCE for this claim? Speak for yourself, please, no one just a few that could use this buggy and basic word processor, but not for long, since they are beginning at the university and will soon have high demands.

There are no official studies that I know of, but I have only seen people use these features when using Word processing for daily papers (I am in college, and every class requires a paper)

* GUI
* Font sizes
* Font weight
* Font style
* Text decorations
* Alignment
* Tables
* Ordered/Unorder lists
* Horizantal rules

Abiword can do all of this, and uses less RAM. So for an average user, Abiword is a good app, especially with low system resources.

I use the Portable version on my flash drive, and also use the portable version of OO. I only use OO if I need to, otherwise I use Abiword. It is much faster on these school computers, and works.

There is no argument that Abiword is the best word processor, it just does the most common tasks, without using a lot of resources.

jimcooncat
September 8th, 2007, 11:22 AM
Does Abiword have support for using databases for mail merge? I thought GnomeDB was supposed to supply functionality for that, but I can't find any documentation. Or can I have a query that poses it's access as an XML file?

I use postgresql, but MySQL or SqLite would be fine, too.

lisati
September 8th, 2007, 11:29 AM
I would say that OO is built for compatibility for StarOffice, not MS Office.

As I understand it, OO is a derivative of StarOffice, which in turn was designed as an alternative to MS Office. The installer I have for StarOffice on CD has an uncanny resemblance to older installers for OO....

EDIT: the copy of StarOffice I have does a couple of things the copies of OO I have don't do - including email and web browsing.

billbog
October 5th, 2007, 10:45 PM
A word of warning abourt Abiword :
You cant just start using it !The default settting when downloaded is that it is impossible to edit a document because it simply overwrites any word to the right of the letter or word you are trying to edit.Make sure the cursor is NOT RED.How you change it I dont know.
As this is such an ancient failing ( it occurred in early versions of other word processing programs ) and there is no clue about how to put it right in Help It does not give one great confidence in the rest of the program.
You have to report bugs through Bugzilla .I have found this frustrating.

Incense
October 5th, 2007, 10:49 PM
I have used KOffice; as a word proc it is really good. But again, there is no bibliographic software for academics for the word proc.

I've been useing Kword more and more, and it's really not that bad. It boots a lot faster then OpenOffice, and feels more powerful then Abiword. Abiword is still on my Xubuntu machine though.

Cheers!

-grubby
October 5th, 2007, 11:25 PM
I find Openoffice.org veeery.... slow which is why I use Abiword, and Abiword actually functions correctly(some wierd Openoffice.org problems)I LOVE IT!:KS

Joer4x4
October 6th, 2007, 05:40 AM
There are no official studies that I know of, but I have only seen people use these features when using Word processing for daily papers (I am in college, and every class requires a paper)

* GUI
* Font sizes
* Font weight
* Font style
* Text decorations
* Alignment
* Tables
* Ordered/Unorder lists
* Horizantal rules

Abiword can do all of this, and uses less RAM. So for an average user, Abiword is a good app, especially with low system resources.

I use the Portable version on my flash drive, and also use the portable version of OO. I only use OO if I need to, otherwise I use Abiword. It is much faster on these school computers, and works.

There is no argument that Abiword is the best word processor, it just does the most common tasks, without using a lot of resources.

The best? Verdana is horrible as are other fonts. "cl" looks like "d" just name one. Tables are a joke - no control or formatting available. Scrolling through pages of text appears as black smear on the screen.

I would make an educated guess that you attend school outside the US and Europe. Otherwise you could not use Abiword at all. Your text would have to be submitted in .doc format. Abiword filters are horrible.

On a professional level (corporate or business), only Word, Writer, and possibly Textmaker can cut it.

Right now they are working on collaboration. Who are the users going to collaborate with? A total waste of time if you don't have the basics right across the different machines. Apparently the developers are interested in only in what they want to do and not the users. Right now (and has been) is .doc.

At least OO got it right. I can communicate in .doc mode when I have to. OO may use more resources but it's fast paging through text, get the fonts right (readable), and handles tables perfectly.

Resources? It's not about efficiency anymore - those days are gone. Just look at what the stuff is coded in today. Java, Flash, C++, etc... Horrible inefficient notations for both machine and programmer.

]Nbx*cmD[
December 10th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Hey, get even more basic, use Vi Improved for your university papers and CVs! ;)

Kidding, of course...

LaRoza
December 10th, 2007, 08:31 PM
The best? Verdana is horrible as are other fonts. "cl" looks like "d" just name one. Tables are a joke - no control or formatting available. Scrolling through pages of text appears as black smear on the screen.

I would make an educated guess that you attend school outside the US and Europe. Otherwise you could not use Abiword at all. Your text would have to be submitted in .doc format. Abiword filters are horrible.

At least OO got it right. I can communicate in .doc mode when I have to. OO may use more resources but it's fast paging through text, get the fonts right (readable), and handles tables perfectly.

Resources? It's not about efficiency anymore - those days are gone. Just look at what the stuff is coded in today. Java, Flash, C++, etc... Horrible inefficient notations for both machine and programmer.
I said I wasn't arguing that is was the best. If you don't like the fonts used, use another.

You can use Abiword without installing, http://portableapps.com/apps/office/abiword_portable, you can also get OpenOffice Portable and a bunch of other apps. I do all my school work in Abiword (in the US) and either save as .doc or create a PDF file with my work. I have had no problems with that.

What about StarOffice or WordPerfect? I know of professionals who use them daily, and do not use MS Word at all.

It is about resources when you have low resources. I know someone who had a computer with 64 MB of RAM, and had no way to get a newer computer at the time. He wanted to do basic word processing and save to a flash drive. I installed Zenwalk, which worked, and Zenwalk uses Abiword. No problems there!

Abiword is a good word processor and I prefer it almost all the time. It may not have all the features of the bigger and more developed word processors but it works for what I use it for, and it works very well. It is the second thing I install when I install Ubuntu and I use it on my flash drive, and use it on Windows.

Mateo
December 10th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I have Abiword installed but I very rarely use it, as I simply don't have much need for word processors at home. On the occassion where I do want to write something, I usually do it in LaTeX.

SuperMike
December 10th, 2007, 11:50 PM
I quit using Abi when we couldn't print docs with pictures in them but OO could. Another problem I saw was crashes when trying to save. Meanwhile, if you know how to tweak OO, you can make it load into RAM faster.

However, Abi rocked and I would prefer to actually use it and Gnumeric if it weren't for those two issues.