Which martial art/combat sport for defense [Archive]

sparks0548

July 9th, 2007, 10:12 AM

I agree with the gun and the knife idea, however then you have worry about being sued for killing or injuring someone and face weapons charges. Not fun. Plus you really shouldn't be somewhere where you really need a knife or a gun. I would look for something mixed martial arts. Most self defense classes will run you through a little Kenpo or maybe some JuJitsu and call it a day. They'll incorporate fighting four guys at once through the movements of Kenpo. The Marine Corps has what's called MCMAP. Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. It takes fighting and kicking moves from Kenpo. It has grappling and take downs from JuJitsu and throws in some Philipino Stick Fighting. You might even find some of Bruce Lee's Jee Kun Do tossed in for good measure.

My opinion is you want something well rounded; how to kick, punch, grab, throw, stop a knife and detain somebody. Stop them from trying to hurt your further so you can call the cops. It's funny though there are still adrenaline pumping schools that want to teach you to beat the crap out of every body and of course that mentality doesn't work.

I've been through the MCMAP course and it's tough, and it's harcore, but I've learned when to and when not to use these skills.

Hallvor

July 9th, 2007, 10:52 AM

getting a gun/knife is the dumbest idea Ive ever heard.

It is not optimal, because in the pink Mary Poppins dream world, no one ever gets angry or hurt eachother. In the real world, there are armed @ssholes who love to intimidate, and one of them might draw a knife when you are unable to escape. You can`t just beg him to let you go, like some bitch. That is what he wants. Make him the victim, make him run away.

I`d prefer gun charges over being threatened with a weapon any time.

slimdog360

July 9th, 2007, 11:00 AM

It is not optimal, because in the pink Mary Poppins dream world, no one ever gets angry or hurt eachother. In the real world, there are armed @ssholes who love to intimidate, and one of them might draw a knife when you are unable to escape. You can`t just beg him to let you go, like some bitch. That is what he wants. Make him the victim, make him run away.

I`d prefer gun charges over being threatened with a weapon any time.

and then there are those who need to take a look at reality and realise that not everyone is out to get them. My bet would be that you have never been 'threatened' with a weapon in your life, and if you have it was because you started it.

cunawarit

July 9th, 2007, 11:05 AM

I did Shorin-Ryu Karate for a couple of years, we did a fair number of self defence classes, which IMHO would help a lot for more in real life situations than most of the other traditional karate stuff.

I’ve never done a pure self defence course, but much of what I did in karate overlapped. I think many martial arts have a lot of spiritual/traditional fluff, that won’t help you defend yourself much. IMHO, but if you just want to defend yourself a self defence course might be the way to go. Or if you want to do a martial art, pick something that concentrates on grappling, more than striking...

It really depends what you are defending yourself against, if you regularly move large amounts of cash, or live in an area where express kidnappings are likely, and you are part of the social strata that is prone to get targeted by kidnappers then a gun is probably be the way to go (provided it is legal where you are of course).

Also:

* Be fit, just in case the worst comes to the worst.

* Be smart:
1) Try your best to defuse situations.
2) If you live in Colombia, South Africa, Venezuela, or other similarly place where you are likely to get kidnapped, don’t flash what little you may have.
3) Avoid dangerous places, and situations. If you own a new Range Rover, don’t drive thru a shanty town. Don’t get off on a dead quiet metro stop at midnight just because it is 5 minutes closer than the busier safer metro stop. Etc...

* And run fast. It is better to flee than to fight.

PS: And as slimdog says, you need to really assess where you live and what the threat level is. If you are a millionaire in Latin America the likelihood of being a target is high, but if you are a struggling student in a mid size English town then getting all tooled up for a possible kidnapping attempt is ridiculous.

smoker

July 9th, 2007, 11:08 AM

you could try 'ecky thump!'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Kapers

(as long as you can buy blackpuddings where you are!)
:-):-):-)

mips

July 9th, 2007, 11:08 AM

Guns people, we need more guns! ;)

Only type of stuff I ever did was Tae Bo but that was for fitness & I really enjoyed it.

Muay Tai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muay_Thai) looks pretty impressive though

Hallvor

July 9th, 2007, 11:12 AM

and then there are those who need to take a look at reality and realise that not everyone is out to get them. My bet would be that you have never been 'threatened' with a weapon in your life, and if you have it was because you started it.

Not everyone needs to be out to get you. It just takes one. And yes, I have had a knife on my throat, and no, I did not start it. And no, it won`t happen again - ever.

LookTJ

July 9th, 2007, 11:31 AM

getting a gun/knife is the dumbest idea Ive ever heard.

+1

and then there are those who need to take a look at reality and realise that not everyone is out to get them. My bet would be that you have never been 'threatened' with a weapon in your life, and if you have it was because you started it.

I did Shorin-Ryu Karate for a couple of years, we did a fair number of self defence classes, which IMHO would help a lot for more in real life situations than most of the other traditional karate stuff.

I’ve never done a pure self defence course, but much of what I did in karate overlapped. I think many martial arts have a lot of spiritual/traditional fluff, that won’t help you defend yourself much. IMHO, but if you just want to defend yourself a self defence course might be the way to go. Or if you want to do a martial art, pick something that concentrates on grappling, more than striking...

It really depends what you are defending yourself against, if you regularly move large amounts of cash, or live in an area where express kidnappings are likely, and you are part of the social strata that is prone to get targeted by kidnappers then a gun is probably be the way to go (provided it is legal where you are of course).

Also:

* Be fit, just in case the worst comes to the worst.

* Be smart:
1) Try your best to defuse situations.
2) If you live in Colombia, South Africa, Venezuela, or other similarly place where you are likely to get kidnapped, don’t flash what little you may have.
3) Avoid dangerous places, and situations. If you own a new Range Rover, don’t drive thru a shanty town. Don’t get off on a dead quiet metro stop at midnight just because it is 5 minutes closer than the busier safer metro stop. Etc...

* And run fast. It is better to flee than to fight.

PS: And as slimdog says, you need to really assess where you live and what the threat level is. If you are a millionaire in Latin America the likelihood of being a target is high, but if you are a struggling student in a mid size English town then getting all tooled up for a possible kidnapping attempt is ridiculous.

I agree with these two. Listen to these wise men. Take their advice.

M$LOL

July 9th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Just in case of what? Even though martial arts can be practically useful for self defence in some situations it also tends to lead to a false sense of security - which is big business. For self defence you may also want to consider other things like calculating risks, avoiding situations, learn how to spot trouble before it emerges, running, use of weapons, and lots of other things. Another big problem is reacting fast enough and make the right decisions when not being prepared for the situation. Then add not being in the best condition to handle it.. yea you can see where all of this is going...

:guitar:
I find that sort of stuff interesting, being able to see things before they happen. While I am reasonably good at it, I would like to become a lot better, if I could find somewhere where I could learn more of this stuff I'd be all over it.

It is not optimal, because in the pink Mary Poppins dream world, no one ever gets angry or hurt eachother. In the real world, there are armed @ssholes who love to intimidate, and one of them might draw a knife when you are unable to escape. You can`t just beg him to let you go, like some bitch. That is what he wants. Make him the victim, make him run away.

I`d prefer gun charges over being threatened with a weapon any time.
Yeah, I've never been in the situation of having to plead for my life, but I know people who have and to people doing the threatening don't see things the way you do. I don't know how I'd even try to get out of a situation like that, given a choice I'd definitely rather have a gun.

afljafa

July 9th, 2007, 12:02 PM

you could try 'ecky thump!'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Kapers

(as long as you can buy blackpuddings where you are!)
:-):-):-)

Lol - The Goodies rock.

Boxing - a good boxer can end a confrontation faster than any other. If you`d like to use elbows and knees then I`d suggest Muay Tai.

When talking defence - the best is (when there is no other option) to leave your opponent in the gutter.

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 01:02 PM

I want to learn a martial art or combat sport to defend myself, just in case.
If you have any experience can you recommend any?

Ok my two cents worth...

I've trained for 24 years, everything from sport karate through to kung fu (which I train now). I've taught womens self defences classes, classes to night club bouncers and also currently teach teenagers with behaviour problems anger management and aggression issues martial arts as a means to stop their anti-social behaviour. I have a pretty good idea about what works and what doesnt.

Myths busted

1) Styles - one thing you'll hear all the time is X style is better than Y. No style is better than another fullstop. All that matters is the teacher/school. If you are taught properly in any style by an honest teacher you will be able to defend yourself. Styles are utterly and completely irrelevant. In general though, sports styles are best suited to the ring, full styles (also referred to as self defence styles) are better suited to the street. This is because of the nature of sports techniques and the fact that you pad up. In a well taught self defence style you will be doing conditioning and fighting street style to toughen your body up for full contact without pads.

2) "Fights always end up on the floor, grapple styles always win." Utter garbage. Fights only end up on the floor if you have no power. There is no way on earth I would want to go to ground in a street fight, particularly if they guy your fighting has mates standing around waiting to give you a nice kicking while your rolling around on the floor. It is useful to know ground fighting stuff, but really, fights are all about power. A person who knows 1 technique but can generate alot of power and has good body conditioning (ie, can tank being hit) will beat a person who knows 400 techniques and has little power. Power always wins. I've had 3 street fights and they've all lasted about 3 seconds with my opponent on the way to casualty. This is not a boast, its fact. I had power, the other guys didnt.

Finally, this adage is always true in martial arts: "its better to be crap in a well taught style than brilliant in a crap one" Finding a decent school is tough going though. Most martial arts classes teach watered down rubbish. Only experience will help you sort the bad from the good.

Remember, people talk an awful lot of crap about martial arts. Take everything thing with a pinch of salt. if anyone advocates one style over another then ignore them. They have an agenda. A true martial artist will be open, honest and tell you pretty much everything I've said in the post.

Good luck in your search. If you need any further advise feel free to PM me.

OffHand

July 9th, 2007, 01:19 PM

Krav Maga is one of the most efficient forms of self defense: http://www.kravmaga.com/

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 01:21 PM

Krav Maga is one of the most efficient forms of self defense: http://www.kravmaga.com/

Not if its taught badly. Like I said, its about the school, not the style. Find a good school in anything.

OffHand

July 9th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Not if its taught badly. Like I said, its about the school, not the style. Find a good school in anything.

Nothing is efficient when it's taught badly so that is a non-argument. I still stand by my comment about Krav Maga being on of the most efficient ways to defend yourself.

cunawarit

July 9th, 2007, 01:32 PM

I've had 3 street fights and they've all lasted about 3 seconds with my opponent on the way to casualty.

Comments like this always puzzle me, I am not saying you fought when you didn't have to. I wasn't there, I don't know you, and I certainly don't know what situation you found yourself in.

I grew up in a very violent society, I've seen many many shootings, and in the UK I have lived in one particularly rough council estate. I had trouble before, I have been threatened a number of times, grabbed on one occasion (three guys) and got away, punched once (another three guys) and talked/acted myself out of it, I have always so far (fingers crossed) managed to get away without fighting and with no injuries... Maybe I am being a bit too cynical, but whenever I hear someone who knows how to fight mention that they have had X number of street fights where the opponent got hurt badly, I can't help but think that perhaps it wasn't strictly necessary.

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 01:33 PM

Nothing is efficient when it's taught badly so that is a non-argument. I still stand by my comment about Krav Maga being on of the most efficient ways to defend yourself.

Err, no. You don't understand. Any style is an effecient way to defend yourself. You'd understand this if you are an experienced fighter. My point is, out of about 300 odd classes of various styles that I have sat in and observed, I'd say less than 5% were teaching anything of any worth. I've sat in some pretty poor krav maga classes in my time. Doesn't mean the style is poor though does it? So my point stands. Styles are irrelevant. Find a good teacher is the only relevant thing to consider, and its hard to do if you are inexperienced and dont know what to look out for.

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 01:35 PM

Comments like this always puzzle me, I am not saying you fought when you didn't have to. I wasn't there, I don't know you, and I certainly don't know what situation you found yourself in.

I grew up in a very violent society, I've seen many many shootings, and in the UK I have lived in one particularly rough council estate. I had trouble before, I have been threatened a number of times, grabbed on one occasion (three guys) and got away, punched once (another three guys) and talked/acted myself out of it, I have always so far (fingers crossed) managed to get away without fighting and with no injuries... Maybe I am being a bit too cynical, but whenever I hear someone who knows how to fight mention that they have had X number of street fights where the opponent got hurt badly, I can't help but think that perhaps it wasn't strictly necessary.

Two were attempted muggings, one was a drunk idiot that launched himself at me unprovoked. I see nothing wrong with defending myself.

OffHand

July 9th, 2007, 01:44 PM

Err, no. You don't understand. Any style is an effecient way to defend yourself. You'd understand this if you are an experienced fighter.
Who says I'm not? Either way - I see your point, I just don't agree with it. It's not all about good teachings imo.

cunawarit

July 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Two were attempted muggings, one was a drunk idiot that launched himself at me unprovoked. I see nothing wrong with defending myself.

I agree.

The thing is, even though I am probably above average in terms of fitness. I am not confident enough that the person attacking me is less strong and skilled than me. As angry as I get when someone violates my person, and as much as I want to retaliate, it could just be that they are the biggest bad *** known to humanity and he will gut me and eat me alive. I’m personally of the policy that fighting is the absolute last action to take, it is the one option that I can’t back out of.

PS: What I mean to say is, that as tough as anyone is, there's always someone tougher... and that's not a gamble I'd like to take unless I have no option.

LaRoza

July 9th, 2007, 02:23 PM

I have studied a lot of arts, and think Krav Maga is very good.

Anonii

July 9th, 2007, 02:36 PM

This thread is relevant to my interests.

I'm planning on starting a martial art for self-defence too, when I get back from my holidays in a month or so. From my tiny research, I found out that Aikido has to do with self-defence, but also it's theoritical part has connections with Buddhism etc., which I don't like, and I'd prefer to stay out of religious stuff. I'm also checking out Hapkido, which seems better suited for me.
What restricts me, is that where I live (Greece) martial arts like Krav Maga, and some others mentioned in this thread, have not evolved and there are no Dojos (or whatever the hell they are called) teaching them.

Anyway, keep the opinions coming, people (especially the opinions about martial arts, and not the ones about guns, if griefing is acceptable, and how many gentlemen I have punched this month.).

fyllekajan

July 9th, 2007, 02:50 PM

I find that sort of stuff interesting, being able to see things before they happen. While I am reasonably good at it, I would like to become a lot better, if I could find somewhere where I could learn more of this stuff I'd be all over it.

I would also be interested, if you find something please let us know.

I was driving across this almost deserted street in a town once at very slow speed while a bunch of people was standing on the left side outside a closed shop with their backs turned against me talking to eachother. I was tired and hungry and looked first left and then right for pedestrians thinking about other stuff when suddenly one of them turns around and points this gun at me at pretty close range and smiles (I don't know guns and couldn't tell if it was real or not). What bothers me about this is that I felt it took too long for me to react to the situation, before I accelerated out of there. The second or so that I was trying to figure out what the hell was going on, what my options were, and making a decision, this guy could easily have pulled the trigger on me. Time is valuable and this response time is what scares me most. The way I figure it is if you're not one step ahead you're one behind. And I know karate for example, but It's pretty hard to use from the driver’s seat of a car.

mips

July 9th, 2007, 03:06 PM

From my tiny research, I found out that Aikido has to do with self-defence, but also it's theoritical part has connections with Buddhism etc.,

I see Buddhism more as a philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_philosophy) than a religion although others refer to it as a religion.

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 03:15 PM

Who says I'm not? Either way - I see your point, I just don't agree with it. It's not all about good teachings imo.

Are you sure about that? If you have a poor teacher, you get poor students. How can you dispute that? :confused:

Anyway, its all down to experience and life, whatever your choices. Happy hunting. :)

Hallvor

July 9th, 2007, 07:32 PM

Ok my two cents worth...

I've trained for 24 years, everything from sport karate through to kung fu (which I train now). I've taught womens self defences classes, classes to night club bouncers and also currently teach teenagers with behaviour problems anger management and aggression issues martial arts as a means to stop their anti-social behaviour. I have a pretty good idea about what works and what doesnt..

Hello! I have been training karate, taekwondo, kickboxing, muay thai and jiu jitsu over a period of 16 years.

Myths busted

1) Styles - one thing you'll hear all the time is X style is better than Y. No style is better than another fullstop. All that matters is the teacher/school. If you are taught properly in any style by an honest teacher you will be able to defend yourself. Styles are utterly and completely irrelevant. In general though, sports styles are best suited to the ring, full styles (also referred to as self defence styles) are better suited to the street. This is because of the nature of sports techniques and the fact that you pad up. In a well taught self defence style you will be doing conditioning and fighting street style to toughen your body up for full contact without pads.

I agree that for simple self defense, all you need is a good school/teacher. Most of the people you defend against on the street will not have training in striking or grappling, so pretty much any style will be effective if done properly. I have to disagree when you write that styles are irrelevant. Some styles have fewer rules than others and will not limit the fighter. The fewer rules, the more realistic. (No rules on the street.) But being taught well is most important. This does not mean that the styles are irrelevant, though. You cannot seriously argue that muay thai schools (where they teach standup fiighting with very few rules) are any worse on average than taekwondo schools (where there are plenty of rules). If the teachers are on the same level, I`d pick muay thai over taekwondo every time. (You can`t put your chin high and your hands down and expect to last against a trained striker.)

Personally, I don`t believe in styles at all, I believe in learning how to punch from boxing, learning how to kick from karate; knees, elbows and clinching from muay thai, throws from judo and grappling from bjj. You can find great teachers in all those MAs, and if you mix it up you`ll be very versatile.

2) "Fights always end up on the floor, grapple styles always win." Utter garbage. Fights only end up on the floor if you have no power. .

Yes, absolute nonsense. But I have to disagree once again. If you have good training, there is no problem getting a much stronger opponent to the floor. I have done it many times. It is almost all about good technique. ( I have had a lot of fun throwing stronger muay thai people in training with throws from jiu jitsu. Just about anything except hiptosses will do.) But of course, if the other guy knows how to throw, he also knows how to avoid getting thrown. And then, power becomes very important.

There is no way on earth I would want to go to ground in a street fight, particularly if they guy your fighting has mates standing around waiting to give you a nice kicking while your rolling around on the floor.

I agree with you. Going to the ground in a street fight is usually a bad idea, but it depends if you are in a friendly or hostile environment. Going to the ground in a hostile environment might get you kicked/beaten/stabbed by his friends when you have your back turned.

This doesn`t mean that groundfighting is useless. An opponent may want to take you to the ground if he feels he controls the environment. And when you are on your back, with him on top, with only standup skills, then what do you do? Grappling will help you avoid getting thrown and will help you get back up if taken to the ground. Skills in grappling is the best defense against a grappler.

It is useful to know ground fighting stuff, but really, fights are all about power. A person who knows 1 technique but can generate alot of power and has good body conditioning (ie, can tank being hit) will beat a person who knows 400 techniques and has little power. Power always wins. I've had 3 street fights and they've all lasted about 3 seconds with my opponent on the way to casualty. This is not a boast, its fact. I had power, the other guys didnt.

Power is extremely important, but I have submitted much stronger (but less skilled) opponents on the ground. (Just watch Royce Gracie in the early UFCs). In standup fighting, power is even more important. But I wouldn`t say that fights are *all* about power.

if anyone advocates one style over another then ignore them. They have an agenda. A true martial artist will be open, honest and tell you pretty much everything I've said in the post.

Styles are not irrelevant. Good schools/teachers are a must, but I hate restrictive rules. Therefore, my picks will always be (good schools of) muay thai and bjj - if I have to choose.

:popcorn:

daveisadork

July 9th, 2007, 07:40 PM

See if you can find someone close that teaches Krav Maga. If you're in the USA and your state has provisions for it, look into obtaining a permit to carry a concealed handgun. If you're serious about your safety, then equip yourself with all the tools you can to make sure you will always be able to defend yourself.

Atomic Dog

July 9th, 2007, 08:33 PM

I do want to add that a gun is not optimal. It attracts attention to yourself, and cannot be brought into certain places like post offices, schools and governmant buildings. But in certain circumstances it makes you a less likely target for crime. It's just like a car theif passing up on a car with an alarm for one that doesn't. Do you know how many meth addicts looking for money/whatever see the gun in my holster and turn away -lots.

It still does not hurt to know how to fight.

fyllekajan

July 9th, 2007, 08:38 PM

I've trained for 24 years, everything from sport karate through to kung fu (which I train now). I've taught womens self defences classes, classes to night club bouncers and also currently teach teenagers with behaviour problems anger management and aggression issues martial arts as a means to stop their anti-social behaviour. I have a pretty good idea about what works and what doesnt.

Look I'm not going to comment on your experience which I know nothing about, but classes like that are taught in almost every dojo around the globe by people with lots of years and stripes who don't have much clue what really works in a self defence situation (it's a broad term) or not. And womens self defence often serve political and economic purposes rather than the individuals it is supposed to protect. Just my two cents worth.

jgrabham

July 9th, 2007, 08:41 PM

My patented - wear big boots, and kick them in the balls! :]

bread eyes

July 9th, 2007, 08:55 PM

...Any style is an efficient way to defend yourself. You'd understand this if you are an experienced fighter...

No it's not. You'd understand this if you are an experienced mathematician, engineer, or other people who think.

Prometheus.172214

July 9th, 2007, 08:58 PM

I stay at home .... If I ever leave, it is in the middle of the night when the world is sleeping and I am lazy.... Akaido (Hope I spelt it right), is supposed to be an art where you use the oponents energy to defeat him. This should serve you well, if you wish to learn a self defense technique.

bread eyes

July 9th, 2007, 09:01 PM

...Akaido (Hope I spelt it right)...

Aikido

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 09:05 PM

Hello! I have been training karate, taekwondo, kickboxing, muay thai and jiu jitsu over a period of 16 years.

I agree that for simple self defense, all you need is a good school/teacher. Most of the people you defend against on the street will not have training in striking or grappling, so pretty much any style will be effective if done properly. I have to disagree when you write that styles are irrelevant. Some styles have fewer rules than others and will not limit the fighter. The fewer rules, the more realistic. (No rules on the street.) But being taught well is most important. This does not mean that the styles are irrelevant, though. You cannot seriously argue that muay thai schools (where they teach standup fiighting with very few rules) are any better on average than taekwondo schools (where there are plenty of rules). If the teachers are on the same level, I`d pick muay thai over taekwondo every time. (You can`t put your chin high and your hands down and expect to last against a trained striker.)

Rules are for the ring. I already said that sports styles are not suitable for the street.

Personally, I don`t believe in styles at all, I believe in learning how to punch from boxing, learning how to kick from karate; knees, elbows and clinching from muay thai, throws from judo and grappling from bjj. You can find great teachers in all those MAs, and if you mix it up you`ll be very versatile.

My personal experience tells me different. You can mix and mash all you like, as loads of people try and do in some unachievable quest for the ultimate style, little realising that what really matters is power and conditioning, not learning hundreds of techniques and styles.

Consider this: would you put your arms in a threshing machine? Its only got one technique - it goes up and down. Thats it. Bet you wouldn't want to get into a fight with one :) That's because its got power (a big engine) and conditioning ("arms" made of steel). This is exactly what real kung fu is like - fighting guys that are conditioned like tanks (you cant hurt them without generating alot of power) that chain strike you into next week with a weight of punch that doesnt care about what your doing - you put up a guard, block, kick, dont matter, its relentless and will just batter whats in front of it until something stops. Thats real fighting. Two battering each other until one falls. No time for fancy blocks and techniques. Its why all real fights look like a mess.

Yes, absolute nonsense. But I have to disagree once again. If you have good training, there is no problem getting a much stronger opponent to the floor. I have done it many times. It is almost all about good technique. ( I have had a lot of fun throwing stronger muay thai people in training with throws from jiu jitsu. Just about anything except hiptosses will do.) But of course, if the other guy knows how to throw, he also knows how to avoid getting thrown. And then, power becomes very important.

Stronger or more powerful? Two different things. Strength is ability to lift a dead weight. Power is the ability to transfer hurt into another human being. I can take out strong people all day, powerful people are a different matter altogether. When I cross hands with people from other styles, the only question I ask myself is "how powerful is this guy?", not "how many black belts does he have, or how good can he kick" etc.

cobrn1

July 9th, 2007, 09:08 PM

I would reccommend a mix of judo and kickboxing.

I do judo and think it's really useful, but it is lacking in the striking aspect. Kick-boxing doesn't do throws. ju-jitsu, well ,they do both, but I think it's best to do the two because you become better in both. Not that I have anything against ju-jitsu, but in ju-jitsu you seem to throw from someone attacking you. This is good )and true to life) but they have a heck of a lot of momentum behing them. If you stop the attack then you become unstuck because you can-nologer throw them.

In just we do practise real-life situations quite a lot (it's stupid not to), but we do most of the throwing work from standing. Randori (free practise). You learn to manipulate your opponent off-balance and use the'r strenght against them. If you can do this when they are trying not to give you the momentum to throw them, when they're resisting and whan the're trying to throw you too, all at the same time, then when it comes to someone really taking a swing at you you have no-probs throwing them.

That said, I would strongly reccomend ju-jitsu anyway, it _is_ fantastic, like most MA.

Aikido is rather overlooked. It's so devoid of the need for strength that if you're smaller it could be for you (that said I'm rather short and am really good at judo - it all depends).

Whatever your training regiem, you must be learnng strikes, grapples (throws) and groundwork (including chokes and armlocks, even tho these are possible when standing). Learning other types of locks, ie wrist locks is _highly recommented, hence aikido, as they really focus on that alot.

This wi why I recomment the judo + kick-boxing approach. It gives you everything you need and both have a competitive version where you fight eachother full speed, force, etc. This gets you much more used to using the techniques. If you can manage it , do aikido to, or ju-jitsu.

The real problem is the martial arts are really more of a way of life than a way to defend yourself. The beople who become best at them really love them. I _love_ judo - its a passion, and if I wasn't passionate I wouldn't be as good at it.

Weapons, BTW, are problamatic in that you have to get them out and you _have_ to be willing to use them, which you probably aren't. THere are also legal issues with carrying weapons, but thats dependant on where you live.

Power is very important, but technique _does_ beat power once you have the technique perfectly done. Practise you martial art by pairing with much larger people to get used to fighting them. You only really need to be good at a few throws to be effective. THere's no point in knowing 100 throws badly. Learn 3 or 5 really, really well so that you could use them on the street.

bread eyes

July 9th, 2007, 09:19 PM

...what really matters is power and conditioning...

That's not true at all. If i fight a 7 year old using the strategy to punch him in his pulms and nothing else I'm going to lose.

Stronger or more powerful? Two different things.

Not in common English.

koshatnik

July 9th, 2007, 09:24 PM

:popcorn:

Oh dear.

Hallvor

July 9th, 2007, 09:28 PM

My personal experience tells me different. You can mix and mash all you like, as loads of people try and do in some unachievable quest for the ultimate style, little realising that what really matters is power and conditioning, not learning hundreds of techniques and styles..

You just need to learn all the things you need for the street, imho. If you don`t know how to throw strikes properly and keep your chin too high, or if you don`t know how to defend yourself on the ground, you are unprepared. Power and conditioning is very important, but you have to be well rounded. You can`t have any blank spots in your training. Relying on strikes alone is a huge gamble.

Consider this: would you put your arms in a threshing machine? Its only got one technique - it goes up and down. Thats it. Bet you wouldn't want to get into a fight with one :) That's because its got power (a big engine) and conditioning ("arms" made of steel). This is exactly what real kung fu is like - fighting guys that are conditioned like tanks (you cant hurt them without generating alot of power) that chain strike you into next week with a weight of punch that doesnt care about what your doing - you put up a guard, block, kick, dont matter, its relentless and will just batter whats in front of it until something stops. Thats real fighting. Two battering each other until one falls. No time for fancy blocks and techniques. Its why all real fights look like a mess.

In the real world, a skilled MMA-fighter would throw him to the ground, where the kung fu guy knows nothing and choke him out, hyperextend an elbow, knee or even break his shin. Because on the ground, the kung fu fighter will probably be as helpless as a fish on land. On the ground he is a beginner, no matter how long he has trained striking. All those years of training wasted.

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjux_y5Xp64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT9VvFQpxBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjK0g-cDJI4&mode=related&search=

mips

July 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM

Use whatever Chuck Norris uses, nobody in the universe can beat him !

bread eyes

July 9th, 2007, 09:52 PM

Use whatever Chuck Norris uses, nobody in the universe can beat him !

Chuck Norris once....

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Chuck Norris once....

zOMG, I HATES Chuck Norris and pepsz having stupid fun!!one!1!1!!

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

zOMG, I hates Chuck Norris and pepsz having stupid fun!!one!1!1!!

calm down

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

calm down

NEVER!!!!11!!!one!1!1!!

jarvis13

July 10th, 2007, 02:40 AM

Looks like I'm a little late on this thread, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyways.

The only martial arts that work are ones that have three things in common:

1. Liveness in training
2. practice against a resisting opponent.
3. They all contain very few actual moves that are practiced over and over

I'd recommend boxing, kickboxing, muay thai for standup, and judo, brazilian jiu jitsu, submission wrestling for ground fighting.

Also think about this: If Aikido/Wing Chun Kung Fu/Kempo Karate/whatever are so deadly, then why don't people use them and compete in the UFC or Pride?

Training against a resisting opponent is key because the only way to learn to fight is to fight. Sparring in Muay Thai and rolling in Judo are two examples.

When going somewhere to train, ask the instructor for his credentials and ask who he trained under, do your research on the internet and participate in a free class. Some places train their students strictly to fight in MMA contests, and some are more relaxed and focus on just learning the sport and give you the option of going to something like NAGA tournaments. Go with whichever one fits your style.

Most of all, have fun. It's not worth it if you aren't enjoying yourself.

Iandefor

July 10th, 2007, 02:52 AM

I've done some Aikido. If all you're interested in is defense, Aikido is the way to go. You don't have to hurt anybody to neutralize an attacker; it's all about redirecting their own attacks away from you in a way that doesn't necessarily harm the attacker. The holds and throws can all be adapted to be quite damaging if it comes to that. It does wonderful things for your balance and grace, too. It's also really calming to practice it.

You could also get a knife. Besides being useful for self-defense, they're just generally handy to have.

Also think about this: If Aikido/Wing Chun Kung Fu/Kempo Karate/whatever are so deadly, then why don't people use them and compete in the UFC or Pride? I can't speak for any of the others, but Aikido is kind of supposed to be the opposite of deadly.

blackspyder

July 10th, 2007, 03:04 AM

Akido, Grecco/Roman Wrestling, and what little kickboxing i know are what i use. Also I use a baseball bat.

jarvis13

July 10th, 2007, 03:27 AM

You could also get a knife. Besides being useful for self-defense, they're just generally handy to have.
I can't speak for any of the others, but Aikido is kind of supposed to be the opposite of deadly.

Heh, that's not what the two drunk Aikido guys were telling me at the bar, they made it sound like their instructor could take on a firing squad, I guess their outrageous claims were more alcohol than anything else.

hanzomon4

July 10th, 2007, 03:49 AM

Don't look for something that's a sport if you're looking for self defense. Look for a soft art, most things tailored to women are pretty good. I would suggest Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu as a martial arts style to train in that fits the vain of self defense. It won't win you any competitions but at the least it will get you out of bad situations and make you pretty kick *** as you get better with it.

It's really different both in style and training, feeling is emphasized over repetition. It's basically nine different Japaneses martial arts schools that include striking methods, bone attacks, muscle attacks, grappling methods, throws, locks and controls, body movement, etc. You really should visit a dojo and get a "feel" for it before you judge it because it's not pretty to look at and the effectiveness is something that you can only really gauge by feeling the effects. The better people get at it the less it looks like a martial art or fighting(checkout this site (http://www.budotaijutsu.co.uk/budo_taijutsu/budo_taijutsu.html) for a general overview of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and a description of the nine schools)

Don't be exclusive, try out things like boxing and wrestling as well as the eastern martial arts styles to give you different perspectives on fighting. Don't get caught up in sports like UFC unless you want to compete in that kind of competition. People in the UFC train like world class athletes for fights and the goal is to win not escape. If you're tougher then someone, or the someones, trying to hurt you this type of fighting might be your thing. If you're not some tough man, I'm not, you may just get yourself hurt trying to fight like one. However if you have the chance train with these types just to see if they have something that works for you.

Stay away from Taekwando, it will not save you. Watch the Karates carefully, checkout the specific type of Karate taught by X Karate school, make sure it's combat and not sport(Checkout these styles listed here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_karate_styles)).

Well thats my 2 cents....

IYY

July 10th, 2007, 03:51 AM

I want to learn a martial art or combat sport to defend myself, just in case.
If you have any experience can you recommend any?

If it's actually for self defense, I'd suggest Krav Maga, Sambo or Systema (I have a little bit of experience with all of them).

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 03:53 AM

I am a second degree black belt in tae kwon do but for pure street fighting i don't recommend it . i also learn judo , jujitsu and muay thai. I suggest you learn muay thai for combat and judo and jujitsu for wrestling. if you dont have time for al lthree i suggest you dont learn judo since you can just let your self be taken down and fight from the ground

bread eyes

July 10th, 2007, 03:56 AM

Hey what that form of martial arts from South America that looks like dancing?

hanzomon4

July 10th, 2007, 04:12 AM

Iandefor

July 10th, 2007, 04:16 AM

Heh, that's not what the two drunk Aikido guys were telling me at the bar, they made it sound like their instructor could take on a firing squad, I guess their outrageous claims were more alcohol than anything else. Probably. I figured that it wasn't about inflicting damage/being deadly because that was exactly as I was informed by my teacher. And Morihei Ueshiba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihei_Ueshiba) used to say things like:
The Way of the Warrior has been misunderstood. It is not a means to kill and destroy others. Those who seek to compete and better one another are making a terrible mistake. To smash, injure, or destroy is the worst thing a human being can do. The real Way of a Warrior is to prevent such slaughter - it is the Art of Peace, the power of love.And
Around 2am as I was performing misogi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogi), I suddenly forgot all the martial techniques I had ever learned. The techniques of my teachers appeared completely new. Now they were vehicles for the cultivation of life, knowledge, and virtue, not devices to throw people with.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 04:22 AM

I did a few weeks of aikido when i was like 7 . I didnt go over white belt before i went for canada. I dont think aikido is practical . it is an ancient form of judo am i correct? I remember the days when my teacher drew a smal circle and a larger circle over it . we were to go in a type of riding stance and swirl around , meaning tat we were triping epople . Ofcourse you could never do that with such a stance.

gotonpo

July 10th, 2007, 04:30 AM

Aikido!

I took it for a few years, definitely interested in getting back into it. It teaches you some pretty brutal stuff, but also how to hold back so you don't hurt the person you're practicing (or arresting, or calming down at a hospital). I think it's pretty perfect for self defense. If you're looking to get damaged or for competition.. look elsewhere.

Also you're to expect that there's always someone behind you or people surrounding you. You don't learn how to fight in an enclosed ring where the ground is a safe place to be.

There are some traditional weapon practices involved, but they're easily adapted to knives or whatever random heavy object is around.

And it really does improve your sense of balance, overall. Maneuvering through a crowd or taking a roll when you fall are useful things you also learn from Aikido.

One last point is it's one of the most recent Japanese martial arts. That means the founders ideas are still in some people's recent memory, and there's a good lineage of teachers these days. A lot of older arts are so watered down, now.

hanzomon4

July 10th, 2007, 04:34 AM

The basics are not what you fight with they only teach principles, if you look at some of the masters you see that they look completely different when preforming a technique. I pretty sure this is true in the Japaneses styles, things like the kihon happo(8 basic ways) are not the end product but vehicles to get you there.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 04:38 AM

isn't aikido older then judo ? also what do you mean brutal . Since i presume that it has the same principles as judo , it should be gentle no? Judo in japanese i think means the gentle way

Iandefor

July 10th, 2007, 04:53 AM

isn't aikido older then judo ? also what do you mean brutal . Since i presume that it has the same principles as judo , it should be gentle no? Judo in japanese i think means the gentle way Aikido's only really been around since the 30's.

Aikido can be pretty brutal, too. Most of the throws/grabs are supposed to be done gently, but if you put a little bit more force into them you can really hurt someone.

RussianVodka

July 10th, 2007, 05:35 AM

Don't learn a martial art, learn a martial system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema)

bluewarrior

July 10th, 2007, 05:49 AM

I do Keichu-do. It's not as widespread as many of the other systems. (http://keichu.com/)

It has a spiritual aspect to it so that may be a turn off to some. You learn self defense against all sorts of situations including knives and guns.

If you are looking for something artistic then it wont be what you are looking for. If you are looking for something that works well, it is.

Motoxrdude

July 10th, 2007, 05:55 AM

The best defense is a good offense. ;)

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 02:03 PM

On the website right of the bat it said it is karate..

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 02:25 PM

learn to run. no fighting style is going to save you from being outnumbered and outgunned. i've been attacked three times: once by three guys, once by four guys and once by two gives with knives. in the first case, i was actually able to talk my way out of it and in the other two attacks, i ran. i was a sprinter in high school and so i was a lot faster than they were. like anything else, you're limited by your physical gifts, but everyone who hasn't trained speed, can get a lot faster than they are now. you can also develope speed endurance which will help you to keep outrunning your attacker until they give up. i had an email conversation with a bodyguard a few years ago. when he confirmed 'scram-fu' as the best plan for self-defense, i asked him "but, what do i do if i'm with someone slower, like my mother?" his response "unless you want your mother to die too, you'll run for help as fast as you can."

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 02:30 PM

I would rather stay and die then run. And even if they outnumber i will take out as many guys as possible . Also , you don't know how those eople work. Even if it is 2 one one they never attack you at the same time.... Also when one is done the others get scared.

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 02:34 PM

I would rather stay and die then run.

:lolflag:

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 02:43 PM

I am serious. I would die of embarresemnt if someone kenw that i ran. And cmone , it isnt like they will kill you. no one wants to go to jail.

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 02:49 PM

I am serious. I would die of embarresemnt if someone kenw that i ran. And cmone , it isnt like they will kill you. no one wants to go to jail.

you're talking to people who want to save their lives, not save a narrow view of honor. you're willing to risk dying, but not being embarassed? your priorities are odd to me.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 02:52 PM

dude , I am guessing your i nhigh-school , high-school people won't kill you! You will just get beat up. But then you can get some people and beat them up! see it is like karma

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 05:24 PM

dude , I am guessing your i nhigh-school , high-school people won't kill you! You will just get beat up. But then you can get some people and beat them up! see it is like karma

oh! all i'm gonna do is get beat up? wow! that sounds awesome!

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 05:44 PM

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 06:40 PM

Well , if you are strong you will beat up a couple of people too. And , as i stated before , you will just get some friends and beat them up. it is like karma. it doesnt seem like you have been in a lot of fights. Also , when you are learning martial arts , you will probably get beat up in sparring anyways. that will harden you up and you can take a beating

are you saying that only high school students attack people and that they only beat them up a little (no more than one would encounter in martial arts training)?

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 06:57 PM

it is rare for adults to get into fights. i never said you would be beat up a little . But with training you can endure it . in any case , you will not die

ThinkBuntu

July 10th, 2007, 07:03 PM

I'm a Taekwondo master, but martial arts aren't about self defense. Not one bit. They are for honing your mind, spirit, and discipline to make you a formidable being. Second, they teach you to manage your space, and move yourself and objects about you properly and efficiently.

fuscia

July 10th, 2007, 07:04 PM

it is rare for adults to get into fights. i never said you would be beat up a little . But with training you can endure it . in any case , you will not die

fights? this thread is about self defense. i had never seen the people who attacked me before and never saw them again. i don't want to endure an attack. i want to totally avoid it.

lode

July 10th, 2007, 07:52 PM

Caveat: I'm raised in a very safe environment, I do believe people can be good beings and I have never been seriously beaten up myself, nor have there been situations where I feared for my life. I have seen barfights however (and have stopped some drunken fitsts with my face), and have endured the 'normal' high school beating.

However, I agree with fuscia and ThinkBuntu. I've been practising judo for about 7 years now, for two years along with ju-jitsu (I quit when our old teacher was replaced by some guy who mainly focussed on the dirty part of 'fighting' -- always emphasizing how to hurt people the most), and for me, judo (as it's the only martial art I have serious experience with) isn't at all about fighting, or even defending myself. I have never 'needed it' in real life. I have never even wanted to use it in real life.

I consider it a sport as any other. When I come home after a training, I put the judo aside (out of my head) till the next training. When I was young (and just started judo), our trainer would always tell us that when he would hear of someone having used his/her judo knowledge to put harm to anyone, he would kick him/her out of the club immediately.

I do have learned valuable stuff from judo, however (controlling anger, judging situations, ...), have a fun sport to attend twice a week (plus the occasional competition, I'm not that hardcore), have made some friends over the years and I'm in perfect condition.

I would never (never say never, I know...) imagine using the techniques I've learned on somebody outside of the judo community. But then again, I have never seen the advantage of having carrying a gun, and it might just be that it's true what (most of) you guys say, and I am living in a happy, purple, sunshine, Mary Poppins world.

I am then only left to wonder why you all don't join me here. I'll buy you all a beer. (With you all around, I wouldn't have to worry about carrying the sufficient amount of cash on me, anyways ;))

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 07:56 PM

jgrabham

July 10th, 2007, 07:57 PM

dude , I am guessing your i nhigh-school , high-school people won't kill you! You will just get beat up. But then you can get some people and beat them up! see it is like karma

So have tough friends (I dont, but still :]) :]

it is rare for adults to get into fights. e

Unless you play hockey :]

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 08:01 PM

lol. At some point even hockey becomes a non-dangerous sport.

ThinkBuntu

July 10th, 2007, 08:05 PM

when they say self defence they mean when someone comes and fights you... I agree with you thinkbuntu to some point . They focus o nteaching you principles but ounce you get into a fight you use methods to efficiently and safely defeat the opponent. It isnt like i ntaekwondo you sit and meditate(Although you meditate when breaking those semeant blockss , i never did it since i am 13)
Cement blocks split like butter if you ask them to, and breaking's pretty easy as long as you aren't intimidated. I'll say this much: If you've never been in a fist-fight before, you won't be well-prepared for one. The same goes for being robbed, or anything else. You can prepare your mind and body, but at the very moment, you will need a rock-solid mind to overcome the wave of new fears, thoughts, and sensations you have.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 08:13 PM

one semeant block yes , but look at the one i taped of the annual chus martial arts banquet , i am uploading it now. 7 out of 8 boards baby!!

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 08:34 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_DlYJYto8DM . i uploaded it

ThinkBuntu

July 10th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Neat. Just don't forget that boards and bricks don't hit back. And a body that's good for breaking bricks may be terrible for fighting, while a body that's good for fighting is probably also good for breaking bricks.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 08:57 PM

yup . I never broke bricks. what degree are you?

ThinkBuntu

July 10th, 2007, 09:00 PM

Fourth, and I've stopped pursuing higher ranks. I'm interested in other martial arts, actually.

fyllekajan

July 10th, 2007, 09:03 PM

I personally find baseball bats slightly more impressive than those blocks... all breaking isn't easy and some requires good technique BUT braking is for show! a 2 year old kid could probably break some of those blocks just by tripping over it..

Anyway back on topic, how do you defend yourself against all the puppies out there, like these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc5P8n3LRak) and worse?

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 09:05 PM

ThinkBuntu

July 10th, 2007, 09:11 PM

lol. and you are completely wrong. those bricks are extremely hard to break. I have a friend that barely broke two and his fingers were completely swallen . and he is pretty strong . I dont think you have ever tried breaking those bricks.
Not to brag, but the last time I did breaking (which was a while ago) I weighed 135lb and smashed through four, no damage whatsoever except for some scraping (natural when you're a foot deep in broken cement). And I've seen much larger and stronger men have trouble over a single brick. That's why I think it's all mental.

stepan2

July 10th, 2007, 09:15 PM

hmhm.. So you are a 4th degree??? wow

fyllekajan

July 10th, 2007, 09:25 PM

Depends what you mean with extremely hard to break. There are stronger materials out there which really is extremely hard to break. But you're right about one thing, I haven't tried those, so they could in fact be stronger than average blocks. Not easy to tell unless one try them. Maybe you can use one of those blocks as a weapon for self defense, and if it breaks to easy then maybe it could be used as a distraction :)

sonny

July 10th, 2007, 11:58 PM

It really depends wat you want... if you want to learn "cool" stuf try some jujitsu or some other "martial art" that incorporates gimnastics, if you want to be rude and kicking everyone in your way then take some Boxing or Muay Thai or that kind of thing, if you want it like a sport then practice some tae-kwon-do, judo or karate-do, if you want it to stay calm and learn about the spirit and energy of things practice Aikido or something like that.

Don't get me wrong, anyone of those can be as deadly as you can make it. I've seen preatty terrible fights in Muay Thai, I've also seen a 25 year old karate guy breaking like a thousand bricks but getting kick by a 15 year old with a bat, or an Aikido guy sending 3 guys up in the air. It all depends on how much sweat you leave on the practice.

I won't recommend anything, I did Aikido for about 6 years and when I feel there might be trouble I know I've the skills to defend myself. But as I say, anyother martial art will give you security, skills, reflexes, flexibility and the ability to kick from 2 to 4 guys at a time, if you stay long enough and sweat enough to fill the ocean.

But whatever is you choice my only advice is to leave your heart and longs in the practice floor, remember the movie 300: "The more you sweat in the practice floor the less you'll bleed in the battle gorund".

BOBSONATOR

July 11th, 2007, 12:10 AM

:lolflag:

haha i completely agree.

In my school, no-one starts stuff because

A. they are cowards
B. All my friends are above 6'

Don't learn a martial art, learn a martial system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema)

+1, That is great for hand-to hand- street fighting, especially when you are facing odds.

prizrak

July 11th, 2007, 12:12 AM

SAMBO, A.K.A. Russian Speznaz training. Make sure you find a good instructor, that particular fighting style was developed specifically as a way for anyone to defend themselves w/o weapons.

Ultra Magnus

July 11th, 2007, 12:14 AM

Wing Chun - Of all the martial arts I've done it made the most sense and is probably easiest for a beginner to get to grips with.

Stuff like brazillian jujutsu is great if its 1 on 1 but almost useless in a real life situation - Wing chun emphasisis quick efficient movements and its easy to do even when under pressure - for self defence stay away from anything too extravagent if it is your first martial art as you'll probably be trying to remember where to put your feet when someone claps you round the head!

Its not very glamourous but it does the job and bruce lee used it so it can't be bad!

However the best self defence you have is to run away!

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 04:55 AM

bjj is great in ufc and pride, but on concrete? i'm not so sure. it seems taking the bottom on broken glass and pavement is not such a bright idea.

i asked about running vs. staying an fighting on an mma forum i belong to. the majority is with me on running. the ones who are saying stay and fight are arguing the choice as a matter of tactic, not pride. i think most assume getting killed over pride is idiotic (don't mean to flame, but i don't think there's any way around that point). the last year i lived in boston, i did some kickboxing training, informally, at a karate school (kenpo). the owner of the school, then a 2nd degree black belt, was interviewed for a local news spot.at the end of the spot, the interviewer asked him what he would do if he were attacked. he said "i'd grab my black belt and run like hell."

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 08:03 AM

bjj is great in ufc and pride, but on concrete? i'm not so sure. it seems taking the bottom on broken glass and pavement is not such a bright idea.

You only end up on the bottom if you don`t know how to improve your position. And even if *you* think it is a bad idea to end up on the ground in a street fight (which I agree on in most situations), perhaps the other guy thinks it is a great idea! If you only have standup skills against a trained grappler and end up on the ground, you *will* get a beating or even a serious injury no matter how many blackbelts you have in standup fighting.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM

Its not very glamourous but it does the job and bruce lee used it so it can't be bad!

Bruce Lee trained almost any martial art on the planet, including boxing and wrestling. He believed in mixing styles - "the style of no style", as he called it.

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM

You only end up on the bottom if you don`t know how to improve your position. And even if *you* think it is a bad idea to end up on the ground in a street fight (which I agree on in most situations), perhaps the other guy thinks it is a great idea! If you only have standup skills against a trained grappler and end up on the ground, you *will* get a beating or even a serious injury no matter how many blackbelts you have in standup fighting.

i was guessing wrestling or sambo would be better grappling skills for the street than bjj. i'm still right behind this guy...

http://portland.indymedia.org/icon/2003/07/268693.jpg

jusmurph

July 11th, 2007, 08:29 AM

Martial Arts vary on the class you go to, most know are hybrids. You really just need to find a class you like.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 08:33 AM

i was guessing wrestling or sambo would be better grappling skills for the street than bjj.

And why is that?

beefcurry

July 11th, 2007, 08:39 AM

I've Learned Wing Cheung before, its the one that Bruse Lee knows, well I guess its not that famous outside of Hong Kong and the Guangdong region of China but I think its one of the best forms of Martial Arts around.

fyllekajan

July 11th, 2007, 08:49 AM

perhaps the other guy thinks it is a great idea!
Anyway why do you assume an unarmed hand to hand combat situation against a single opponent?

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 09:15 AM

And why is that?

fedor vs. nog is about the only thing i can think of.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Anyway why do you assume an unarmed hand to hand combat situation against a single opponent?

If you are unarmed and are being attacked by multiple opponents, with or without weapons; would you really stay and fight in the first place? Anyone claiming that their martial art can make you capable of defeating multiple determined opponents, or even multiple armed opponents, you should shy like the plague.

fyllekajan

July 11th, 2007, 09:50 AM

If you are unarmed and are being attacked by multiple opponents, with or without weapons; would you really stay and fight in the first place? Anyone claiming that their martial art can make you capable of defeating multiple determined opponents, or even multiple armed opponents, you should shy like the plague.

Well that was sort of my point.. "the other guy" could be carrying a concealed weapon of some sort or have friends nearby.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 09:54 AM

fedor vs. nog is about the only thing i can think of.

I don`t think that was a street fight. Fedor is Fedor. The fighter won, not the style.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 09:59 AM

Well that was sort of my point.. "the other guy" could be carrying a concealed weapon of some sort or have friends nearby.

And so could you. What is your point?

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 10:01 AM

I don`t think that was a street fight. Fedor is Fedor. The fighter won, not the style.

it wasn't the win i was thinking of. nog is on his back in a lot of fights and fedor rarely is. look at alex, for that matter. same training as fedor and he fights more stand up and on top on the ground. he spent five years in a russian prison, so i assume he knows something about real fights.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 10:19 AM

it wasn't the win i was thinking of. nog is on his back in a lot of fights and fedor rarely is. look at alex, for that matter. same training as fedor and he fights more stand up and on top on the ground. he spent five years in a russian prison, so i assume he knows something about real fights.

It is all about the fighter. Everyone knows that ground fighting is about position and improving your position to a more dominant one. So is bjj. It is not always possible, and you may still be able to submit the guy, but it is always the goal. A strong fighter will always improve position to full mount or take the back of the other fighter. Look at Paulo Filho or Rickson Gracie. They are both very strong and always work to improve position. Royce Gracie was almost always on the bottom in the UFC - not because he wanted to be there, but because the other fighters almost always were much heavier and stronger.

Fedor was on his back against Mark Hunt - not because he wanted to be there, but because Mark Hunt was stronger and overpowered him.

Funny you should mention Alexander - wasn`t he on his back when he was submitted by Josh Barnett (keylock) and bjj champion Fabricio Werdum (rear naked choke)?

It is the same for all fighters, no matter if it is judo, bjj, wrestling or sambo. They all work to improve position.

marco123

July 11th, 2007, 12:44 PM

OffHand

July 11th, 2007, 01:38 PM

I can also recommend TaiJutsu, which I have practiced myself...

This terminology is reported in the warrior's bodily virtuosities and it could be translated as "the art of unarmed battle". The Tai Jutsu constitutes indubitably the "foundation stone" of the exterminating education of Ninja, as it has been developed in the passage of centuries. This practical education in the "man to man" battle, which began in very young age and concerned various techniques like blocks, kicks, throws, grapplings, strangulations, lockings and immobilizations, as well as several release-techniques, had as base the natural movement of the body and the knowledge of its weak points. The objective was always the mission's success, meaning that, the trainee should be able to use any means, which would lead him to the success of his aim. Other basic bodily virtuosities that belong to the education of Tai Jutsu, are the jumps, the falls, the ascensions and the various techniques of noiseless move.

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 02:27 PM

Funny you should mention Alexander - wasn`t he on his back when he was submitted by Josh Barnett (keylock) and bjj champion Fabricio Werdum (rear naked choke)?

i haven't seen the barnett fight. the werdum was a triangle choke with alex on his back on the bottom (he tapped).

It is the same for all fighters, no matter if it is judo, bjj, wrestling or sambo. They all work to improve position.

i guess so. although, i am an mma fan, watching an event with me is like watching football with my mother. "who do you think is gonna win, mum?" "the rams." "why is that?" "they have nice hats." i trained in kickboxing for a little less than a year. that experience, pretty much, re-enforced the notion that i should just run as fast as i can if i were ever attacked.

stepan2

July 11th, 2007, 02:42 PM

If you can only choose 1, then boxing, as most confrontations start at punching distance.
If you can choose 2 add in Judo.
If 3 then add in Muay Thai.

Also read some of Geoff Thompson's books, especially "Watch my Back". : http://www.geoffthompson.com/default.asp.
http://www.geoffthompson.com/detailProduct.asp?id=6

Kind regards, Marco.
why is muay thai third? it should be first and boxing be second. muay thai also incorporate boxing and adds elbowing , also gives you geat leg skill

neoflight

July 11th, 2007, 04:17 PM

lol. and you are completely wrong. those bricks are extremely hard to break. I have a friend that barely broke two and his fingers were completely swallen . and he is pretty strong . I dont think you have ever tried breaking those bricks.

right.... i agree that breaking is show. but to show 'that' you need to know how and where to apply the force. poorly placed blocks are hard to break. one might not be able to break it by hitting on the edges. ..

but needs concentration and energy. i learned kung fu for a couple of years...on and off.. no belts....one of my seniors in college taught us....partial knowledge is bad...but still i learned that its tuff to learn any form of self control, be it martial arts, meditation, or anger management.... i have also observed that most of the ability to learn martial arts thoroughly is greatly enhanced by the character... the early nurturing...

neoflight

July 11th, 2007, 04:39 PM

the man: hey, did u find an art that is good for u ?
cbn: yup. started last week...

the man: how do u feel?
cbn: i can bring down 2000 guys. no probs.

after a year....
the man: how do u feel?
cbn: i can fight with 100 no probs.

after 3 yrs....
cbn: i can bring down 10 no probs.

after 5 years....
cbn: i can bring down 2 for sure.

after 7 years....
cbn: i can try beating 1. i would try to avoid it though!

after many more yrs...
cbn: what???!!!!......i feel calm and pleasant.

Hallvor

July 11th, 2007, 07:16 PM

i haven't seen the barnett fight. the werdum was a triangle choke with alex on his back on the bottom (he tapped).

Yes, you are right. Had to see the fight again on youtube. It was an arm triangle.

The Barnett-fight was a very good one. Barnett blocking Emelianenko`s punches with his head until Emelianknko gassed out. (You should have seen his face.) I also heard he injured his fist from hitting him. He got taken down when he was exhausted and got submitted by Barnett with keylock submission.

Was hoping for a Fedor vs Josh Barnett fight, but then Pride went down in flames...

marco123

July 11th, 2007, 07:35 PM

why is muay thai third? it should be first and boxing be second. muay thai also incorporate boxing and adds elbowing , also gives you geat leg skill

Because simple is where it is at, lol. You don't exactly have time to go through a list of techniques in your head then choose one. Also there isn't usually room to kick.

Again look into the work of Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine and Jaime O'Keefe all ex bouncers/bodyguards. Pre-emptive striking is where it's at, and again a punch to the jaw is all thats needed, no fancy stuff.

Judo can be incorporated if punching distance is lost, but going to ground is totally out of the question when there are loads of people standing around that will gladly kick your head like a football.

marco123

July 11th, 2007, 07:36 PM

fuscia

July 11th, 2007, 07:48 PM

The Barnett-fight was a very good one. Barnett blocking Emelianenko`s punches with his head until Emelianknko gassed out. (You should have seen his face.) I also heard he injured his fist from hitting him. He got taken down when he was exhausted and got submitted by Barnett with keylock submission.

i love alex (especially for the thompson fight) and i'm not thrilled with barnett (especially after the beating he took from mr. blue on sherdog), so i'm not sure i want to see that.

Was hoping for a Fedor vs Josh Barnett fight, but then Pride went down in flames...

it's too bad about pride. i think they had more interesting fighters. with fedor going to bodog, i guess we're not going to see him in the octagon anytime soon.

fiskking

October 1st, 2007, 03:11 AM

personally, I am currently taking Aikido and Judo through Fugakukai Int. In my opinion, both are good in there own approach to self-defense. Martial arts can be viewed into 3 categories that was explained by the founder of Fugakukai, Karl Geis, in an interview done by Aikidojournal.com.

¨I believe that a good starting point lies in the definition of what is a martial artist. There are basically 3 ways to defend from an attack and all three are effective if they are individually used as they were originally conceived. We have force meets force arts, such as karate, boxing, taekwondo and other striking arts. Secondly, we have the grappling arts such as Judo, Wrestling, etc. Third we have the avoidance arts such as aikido and some forms of Jujitsu etc. We find that the three arts are mutually exclusive. For example, it’s hard to grapple and strike at the same time. It is hard to avoid force and grapple at the same time, and it is hard to strike and avoid force at the same time.¨

RAV TUX

October 1st, 2007, 03:13 AM

I want to learn a martial art or combat sport to defend myself, just in case.
If you have any experience can you recommend any?

Krav Maga (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=547401&highlight=Krav+Maga)

fiskking

October 1st, 2007, 03:46 AM

The following is a rough English translation of a recent video interview with PRIDE Heavyweight champion and pound-for-pound king, Fedor Emelianenko:

Q: What is the status of your contract? How are you negotiations with UFC going, what are their demands?
A: I think that Vadim is in a better position to answer these questions. As a far as I know, the contract is still being discussed. There are points that we don’t accept, and there are points that they don’t like. We are working out a compromise.

Q: Did you see CroCop’s and Nogueira’s debut in the UFC?
A: I saw CroCop’s fight, but not Nogueira’s fight. What can I say… As far as I know, Nogueira won, and Crocop lost… I think that CroCop’s got tired psychologically, and this is the source of his troubles.

Q: Do you want to fight in the UFC, and who would you like to fight there?
A: As far as I know, they give me Randy Couture, so there is talk about a match against this fighter. I respect Randy very much. Of course, to be honest, I would not want to fight him because I really admire this fighter, and we could have become friends. Oh well, a fight is a fight, and if they put us against each other, I’ll have to fight him. As far as fighting in the UFC goes, I think I won’t have a lot of problems as far as cage is concerned

http://www.mixfight.ru/news/2007/9/26/fedor/

Hallvor

October 1st, 2007, 11:58 AM

maduranga

October 1st, 2007, 02:09 PM

Learning to run faster will help you in most situations :lolflag:

I like Wushu. As i have seen, Wushu is a martial art that is can be considered as compleate. You'l devolop the speed inside you, and make your both body and mind powerful. Fighting with weapons, punching kicking and all are there. And don't avoide developing your mind. It is very important. Gaining a good speed inside your body will realy help you in most situation cos i have seen that some teachings always targeted on devoloping the body strenth, but not tweaking the speed or the mind. Wushu is good and both very interesting, artistic

GSF1200S

October 1st, 2007, 02:13 PM

marco123

October 1st, 2007, 02:35 PM

Aikido/Jujitsu

Aikido you train to use your enemys strength and motion against him.

Jujitsu is the culmination of Aikido, Judo (which is grappling with a focus on groundwork), and karate which is the striking elements.

Id carry a 9mm though ;)

Going to ground is usually completely out of the question in street scenarios. Also anything like Aikido that is purely defensive is useless, because if you wait for the other person to attack it's usually too late. Also all fine motor movements go out the window after an adrenaline dump, thats why its the big simple stuff that works best.

aaaantoine

October 1st, 2007, 04:03 PM

Random thought inspired by this thread: If only the following happened more often...

Operator: 911 emergency.
Guy: Yes, a couple of guys just tried to mug me. I think they need an ambulance.

toupeiro

October 1st, 2007, 04:19 PM

4 years Shotokan-ryu. Never had to use it. Probably couldn't anymore.

The one I always wanted to learn when I was younger was Eskrima (Kali) but I never found anyone who could teach it. Then when I was about 23 I started working with a guy who used to have a career as a full contact fighter, and was trained it Eskrima, but I never took him up on his offers to train me. My loss.

Hallvor

October 1st, 2007, 06:31 PM

Random thought inspired by this thread: If only the following happened more often...

Operator: 911 emergency.
Guy: Yes, a couple of guys just tried to mug me. I think they need an ambulance.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He was quite frankly very fat at the time, but also good amateur boxer. Looks a little like Butterbean.

Anyway, he was strolling through a park a Saturday night while eating a burger, when four guys approached him. One of them said, "hey, look at the fatso!" Don`t know exactly what happened next, but he hit three of them with his heavy hands. Two of them had to go to the hospital.

digitalbenji

October 1st, 2007, 08:00 PM

I agree with Loda.

My own .02 cents are that you should focus on doing excersize, including cardiovascular and weight training a minimum of 3 times per week for 1 to 2 hours at a time. In addition to this, I would recommend Judo (literally the gentle way).

As you asked about self defense, which is my interest anyway, I focus my training on being able to take a hit, and get the **** away from the fight. I also highly recommend learning how to do conflict resolution, so that you can talk your way out of fights. I also recommend skateboarding, as that is the best way to learn how to take a hit in my opinion. Noone will ever hit you as hard as the concrete does when you fall off that skateboard.

I think that the best self defense is being physically fit and healthy, and being mentally fit enough to be able to walk away from a fight, even if it means you don't look like a big mean tough person.

just my opinion.

Acglaphotis

October 1st, 2007, 08:20 PM

I support the idea of getting a 9mm.

Hallvor

October 1st, 2007, 08:49 PM

I support the idea of getting a 9mm.

This one looks good for self defense:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/mac_m11_9k.jpg

:lolflag:

compiledkernel

October 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM

http://www.thaiboxing.com/

gatewayasteroid

October 1st, 2007, 09:11 PM

I want to learn a martial art or combat sport to defend myself, just in case.
If you have any experience can you recommend any?

I chose Tae kwon do and Judo, I think that if you combine them you get the perfect one! :)

Anonii

October 1st, 2007, 10:31 PM

A cute-little update for you all.
If you go back 1-2 pages you will see my last post saying that I'm interested on martial arts, 2 months ago.
3 weeks ago, I visited my small-local aikido dojo. I watched an advanced training and it was fascinating. I went back the next day, and I started (Payed for the register, month, uniform, everything!). Martial arts are incredible, and it's a shame that we only practice 3 times a week (5 hours total, it will become 6 when I pass my first exams).
One suggestion to everyone interested:
Go to a Dojo near you and watch a training. If you like it, move on and try one full hour wit the beginners! I'm really angry with myself that I didn't had the courage to do this two years ago.

It may sound a bit immature, but I can't wait for the next training (tomorrow), for great justice!

samjh

October 2nd, 2007, 12:58 AM

Aikido is a very useful martial art if you have a good instructor. It's one of the few martial arts that take the issue of concealed weapons seriously, emphasises disabling the attacker while causing the least physical damage (good if you have to answer to the police or the courts later), and does not require great physical strength or coordination to be effective.

I've never trained in it, but I've watched some good instructors train their students, and it's an martial art with very good self defence potential.

My own experience is in Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, and mostly Kung Fu (Tong Long). Muay Thai is good for building a solid set of basic skills in a very quick period of time. TKD is a relatively easy step forward in sophistication, while Kung Fu - the southern style I learned - is quite a different style (lots of close quarters grappling and very fast strikes).

derekr44

October 2nd, 2007, 01:47 AM

I would recommend Aikido

woedend

October 2nd, 2007, 01:58 AM

i wouldn't jump into anything offhand, as everyone is different. Some people just CAN'T perform martial arts as well as others(ie overweight, weak, unflexible). I'd recommend boxing. It's a good base for keeping your guard, keeping your eyes open, coordination, endurance, and strength.
HTH
alex

science4sail

October 2nd, 2007, 04:09 AM

I'm going to say the following because I can't resist it:

preferably an open-source martial art

regomodo

October 2nd, 2007, 09:47 AM

several pints and a half-brick

Ant1jr

October 2nd, 2007, 01:10 PM

I can't help but recommend (Gracie) Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. It has no strikes, just grappling. Due to other martial arts sort of putting the emphasis of grappling to the side, Jiu-Jitsu tend to win in most if not all MMA competitions. It's the big bad brother of martial arts, traditionalists will hate you, but you'll kick their *** so who cares? :)

EDIT: As new moves are being created and adapted every day, I suppose you could say that it's open source. :D

Thyme

October 2nd, 2007, 08:10 PM

Capoeira. Cunning and fatal. Used by the african slaves in Brazil centuries ago .. It's an excellent form of defence (and offence !) against group attacks due to it's fluidity in movement and the ability to move rapidly across large suface areas.

regomodo

October 2nd, 2007, 10:04 PM

jan quark

December 19th, 2007, 06:20 PM

in a real life threatening situation every martial art ends to exist, because the guy who put you on his death list will come from behind, so you do not have time to react and finish him with your long trained flashy harakiri moves.

Real life is not a training session. Avoid violence. Best defense.
I do not say martial arts are useless. The certainly enhance your chance to survive an attack.

I for myself train in Aikido and its a real eye-opener.

gfd_2

December 19th, 2007, 07:39 PM

try to pull a gun against someone that's inside your 20' "circle of awareness" and I guarantee they'll be on you before you get it out, take off the safety, point, aim and fire off a single round. There's a reason why cops don't like folks to get inside that range.

As far as a martial art - nothing's going to be bullet proof - I'm partial to TaeKwonDo 'cuz I've been doing it for 10 years and a side kick to someone's knee will certainly stop them from advancing on me.... also Hapkido (joint locks and manipulation) a little boxing. Best thing is to pay attention to your surroundings, stay in shape (aerobic and strength training) and use your common sense to avoid bad situations.

Try to keep an exit open at all times so that if you find yourself in the weeds you can run away and if that doesn't work... remember that a vast majority of the folks who are shot or stabbed don't die... so be prepared for noise (yelling, gunshots) pain and blood and let it all hang out and fight like an animal - take out sight or breathing.... gouge the eyes with your thumb, punch to the throat, tear off their lip with your teeth... then bail out...

if you decide to take lessons wach a couple of classes to see how the instructor interacts and treats the students as well as how the students treat each other. Some schools will allow the black belts to treat lower belt students like sparring fodder.

Good luck!

Depressed Man

December 19th, 2007, 08:05 PM

For actual defense, I'd say Goju-Ryu. Though I guess it depends on who's teaching. My sensei at UMD is very focused on defense, and will show you every possible thing you could do with said move. Including things like hitting them in the balls, using your hand in a way to wrap around their face (in the process of grabbing their eyes and nose) and throwing them to the ground. If they have long hair, how to grab it and toss them. If short, alternative methods..

It also places emphasis in short range. As in... your pretty much in the other person's face.

Or Krav Maga.. if you really wanna go to an extreme.

fuscia

December 19th, 2007, 08:15 PM

dim sum might be the best solution. invite your attacker to a fine brunch and you'll change their lives.

Lord_Dicranius

December 19th, 2007, 08:21 PM

dim sum might be the best solution. invite your attacker to a fine brunch and you'll change their lives.

That sounds sooo good right now...

compiledkernel

December 19th, 2007, 08:43 PM

Speaking for the Muay Thai element (having practiced it for a number of years over), if anyone gets into the threat ranged, commonly refered to as the 20, as long as I can get my foot off the ground to get a Kao Chijang to a Kao Dhob (which if done fast enough a guy holding a gun point blank at you and looking at you to fire the gun, is never going to see) will disarm them in a relatively quick fashion.

http://sngp.classicgaming.gamespy.com/specials/gifs/joe_standing.gif

some_random_noob

December 19th, 2007, 09:25 PM

Real life is not a training session. Avoid violence. Best defense.
I do not say martial arts are useless. The certainly enhance your chance to survive an attack.

I for myself train in Aikido and its a real eye-opener.
Yeah, avoidance is best.

I learnt some Aikido moves recently and then tried them in a semi-real fight situation (Me and my friends were screwing around for a bit of fun one night) but I got my *** kicked :(

Aikido only works if someone grabs you or tries to stab you with a knife. Apart from that, you can't really do much because they can just tense their arm, which stops you from doing anything. Another thing I learnt in that fight was that you have to be bloody quick, and also attack from the sides or behind if you can.

What I really want to learn is how to fight someone who is using punches,kicks,strikes etc. I grabbed one guys leg when he tried to kick me, but then he just pulled himself closer to me and started strangling me :lolflag: What I should have done is pulled his leg towards me, done a tenshin (Pivot) and then thrown him real hard. Man that guy was nuts, he hit me so many times; but it didn't really hurt until the next day.

I learnt a lot that night about real life situations. Another thing which gives you an edge over someone is improving your fitness/strength. Better luck next time I guess :)

Scotty Bones

December 21st, 2007, 06:06 AM

(please forgive my spelling)
I would say to start with one of the three traditional Japanese martial arts
Shitoh-ryu, Shotokan-ryu or Gojo-ryu (they are rooted in the same ancestory and are very similar to each other (ishin-ryu is the odd ball here, so it tends to get left out))
If you happen to be the tall lanky sort I would recommend tae-kwan-do where you can put that extra length to good use.
This will give you a solid base to work with, then move into a grappling style like jiu-jitsu or judo. This should provide you with a fairly well rounded education in martial arts.

As for myself I started in Hayashi-Ha Shitoh-Ryu and Okinawa kubudo kin-shen-ryu (weapons). I have a Nii-dan (2nd) and Sho-dan (1st) respectively. Then movend into goju-jitsu (A combination of goju-ryu and jiu-jitsu) witch I have a sho-dan in (This one is honorary since the traditional styles tend to respect each others black belts...you have to prove yourself first of course)

Lostincyberspace

December 21st, 2007, 07:38 AM

Its like languages the more you learn the easier they get.

But in all seriousness I would like to learn Hung Gar. Since I am fairly short and stocky another 6 inches though and I would be pretty good viking.

barbedsaber

December 21st, 2007, 07:54 AM

Takwondo is what I do, and I love it, but mixed would be the best for self defence, you do a bit of karate/judo/kungfu/jujitsu/ninjujitsu/aikido.

Aikido is awsome, look it up in google, and old people can take on 21 year olds.

jgrabham

December 21st, 2007, 09:33 AM

My self defence... grab their fists, and knee them in the balls/headbutt them in the face.

inversekinetix

December 21st, 2007, 12:44 PM

I do wing chun, it has worked in real life situations.

Dimitriid

December 21st, 2007, 01:07 PM

Brain-fu. Seriously when there's cops coming, get the hell out. Drunken idiots? Turn em on each other. Annoying kids? Intimidate them. Tons against you? Get to a very public place,like walk into a store. You get jumped and get mugged? Let em take a few bucks, rethink your travels next time.

I only fought somebody once and I was still a kid. Other than that there is always a way to avoid it, there is always a way to fade in the background, call the cops on somebody else, get the hell out before cops show up on you, even let yourself be arrested and get out in 5 hours without any charges against you.

I know tons of guys who were always trying something to be better at fighting, or to defend themselves, etc. Best self defense its knowing how to dodge situations as best as possible. If you absolutely have to fight somebody go as far as you know you can legally get away with: rocks, bottles, kick their knees back, bite em, etc.

padams10001

December 21st, 2007, 01:14 PM

I would say pro-wrestling, as long as you're scripted to win.

Seriously, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as practiced by someone like Royce Gracie is ideal if you aren't the biggest, strongest person.

anaconda

December 21st, 2007, 02:42 PM

how about learning to use and carrying a manrigi kusari with you?

It could be just a rope with a weight attached to it. Very effective and hard to block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_hammer

jan quark

December 26th, 2007, 11:58 PM

Coming back to Aikido uselessness :)

Firstly
Believe me ... when the opponent tenses his arm when a Aikido technique is applied on him he chooses the worst possible behaviour . Believe me... once I tensed my arm when my Sensei was showing me something... the pain which followed was very unexpected... I can remember I was on the mat... but how I get there is something I will never get to know...:)

Secondly.

Please dont say Aikido is not working.

Rather say My Aikido is not working.

Many people think Aikido is some sort of choreographed martial dance. You can only really experience the immense energy and power of the movements by simply joining a good training session. No film on youtube, no book, no told experience can substitute the physical act of being thrown so effortlessly, as if the you were attacking the whole universe, and the universe was fighting back.

Once you may attend to the advanced classes, the attacks become more intense, faster, you will learn that not moving like in a dance will result in immediate painfull defeat.

Aikido moves seems to be flashy and exagerated. They are not.

Furthermore I for myself start to realise that it defeating your partner during a training session becomes so unimportant. Far more important is to learn, to move in accordance with your capabilities and to create something new. Not to destroy it.

Sorry.. I really wanted to make it short.:):)

Awaiting your replies