Should limewire be the default Breezy p2p?

[NoTiG]

I know its in java.... can it be included if open source java is included? Is open source java even going to be included by the time breezy releases?

[jasmuz]

I dont think Open Source Java will be included anytime soon, so there is a slim to none chance that Limewire will make it to the repositories.

[poofyhairguy]

Bittorrrent is the official Ubuntu P2P program. Its Free software (unlike limewire), its legally sound (for most Limewire=copyright infringment) and works well.

[NoTiG]

Bittorrrent is the official Ubuntu P2P program. Its Free software (unlike limewire), its legally sound (for most Limewire=copyright infringment) and works well.

So will azureus be included once open source java is included? Does anyone know if/when open source java will be included ?

Shouldnt there be a bit torrent client ANd 1 regular p2p client? p2p programs are reeeeealy popular. Im all for having just 1 cd burner, 1 music player program etc.... but having a bit torrent and a regular p2p is the way to go i think.

[poofyhairguy]

So will azureus be included once open source java is included? Does anyone know if/when open source java will be included ?

Probably not on the first one...thats an advanced program. The second answer is " when the free java is good enough.


Shouldnt there be a bit torrent client ANd 1 regular p2p client? p2p programs are reeeeealy popular. Im all for having just 1 cd burner, 1 music player program etc.... but having a bit torrent and a regular p2p is the way to go i think.

Bit Torrent does a good job. It moves things well, plays to the strength of P2P and is the best way for moving Linux distros. Other P2P (such as Kazaa, Limewire, etc) are mostly reeealy popular for illegal use (in countries where that is illegal) and therefore including any P2P other than Bit Torrent would be endorsing illegalness (in the eyes of the law...its a crime to help in a crime). What you want will never come to pass, I can almost bet on it. Not that its a bad idea....just not a legally responsible one.

Whats wrong with Bit Torrent I must ask?

[NoTiG]

Computers are capable of doing many illegal things... hacking, phishing, fraud etc... does that make computers illegal? No.

P2p progams are not illegal software, and including them in the distro would not be illegal... the illegal uses of bittorrent are just as big of an issue as with p2p.

Did you read the WhatwindowsUsersWant (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhatWindowsUsersWant)

The second most DL type of program is p2p(next to chat) . 377 million downloads. Are you saying that tracklerless bit torrent can replace p2p? For all aspects of file sharing? I havent used bit torrent in a few months... ill have to see if the new changes are any good.

But if the goal is to encourage new users... why not include azureus even if it is bigger than the minimal bit torrent client if thats what is popular?

[poofyhairguy]

Computers are capable of doing many illegal things... hacking, phishing, fraud etc... does that make computers illegal? No.

P2p progams are not illegal software, and including them in the distro would not be illegal... the illegal uses of bittorrent are just as big of an issue as with p2p.

Not really. With Bit Torrent you can point at the hundreds of legal sites and distributers that use torrents legally. All the Linux ISOs downloaded.

With Limewire you can search, then point to illegal information. Because thats all it does (well....98%) Honestly, do you use it to only download creative commons works? I thought not....

Grokster recently got demolished by the Supreme Court because that P2P service was blatently used for stealing.Thats means blatent and easy copyright infringment with no other good reason for its existance=your ass is grass. I don't want the same to happen to Ubuntu.



Did you read the WhatwindowsUsersWant (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhatWindowsUsersWant)


Yep...and I think its stupid. Download.com is a spyware pusher, like a drug dealer of the software world. There data is crap to me. I know most don't agree with me on this.



The second most DL type of program is p2p(next to chat) . 377 million downloads. Are you saying that tracklerless bit torrent can replace p2p?

For many. I use only torrents. Even for illegal stuff there are good sites. Plus its easy to add the Limewire if you want.



For all aspects of file sharing?

All legal aspects. Which is all Ubuntu cares about officially.



I havent used bit torrent in a few months... ill have to see if the new changes are any good.

Try bit tornado from the backports...Limewire never went that fast for me.



But if the goal is to encourage new users... why not include azureus even if it is bigger than the minimal bit torrent client if thats what is popular?

The goal is to make a Free (both ways), easy to use (and legal to use) OS. The rest of the stuff (gain windows converts, be media/P2P boxen, save the world from MS) are all secondary goals of community members.

Limewire will not be included because it itself is not Free software. Official Ubuntu is only about Free software....nothing else makes the cut.

Azureus is complicated, and therefore goes against one on the goals (easy to use).

I'm not trying to be a ********. I understand your point. Everyone loves downloading all the free **** they want from P2P, so why not make it easier for them? The reason is the same reason Ubuntu doesn't ship with the needed codecs to play all those media files such as MP3 and WMV- its illegal to do so. The Supreme Court made that clear.

Sorry to be a party pooper.

[NoTiG]

But will ubuntu always take such a rigid stance? I think they are acting outside the realm of legality and trying to be Philosophically correct. FOr instance....


One of the most convenient features of Mandriva Linux is the way it handles commercial DVD movies. Put an encrypted DVD into your DVD-ROM and the Kaffeine video player pops up a window that checks for the required libraries and codecs. If some are not found -- Win32 and libdvdcss are not installed with the distribution because of legal issues in some countries -- you're told where to go to get them. Click the provided links, download the RPMs, install them using Mandriva's software installer, and within five minutes you have DVD and Windows media file playback capabilities

That can solve the codec issues which can be a big deterrent to new users. The automate script already does this (and made it easier for me to help transition).

[poofyhairguy]

But will ubuntu always take such a rigid stance? I think they are acting outside the realm of legality and trying to be Philosophically correct.

One of the biggest reasons for the existance of Ubuntu is to promote Free software. It will always be puritan about that....other Distros exist to make Linux "easy to use for a switcher." Ubuntu is about being a desktop Debian (a VERY anal OS about free/non-free stuff).

I like the "only free software stance." Its not easier, but most worthwhile things in life aren't.



That can solve the codec issues which can be a big deterrent to new users. The automate script already does this (and made it easier for me to help transition).

Would be nice. Luckily for Madriva it is based out of France (where it is legal to host codecs and css there). Hopefully at least Totem and whatever will have a "you need to install some codecs message" instead of a cryptic one but the codecs will never be super easy to install by default. Thank goodness for the community, telling us how to add Limewire and Codecs.

This might be bad, but I'm of the opinion that if you can't follow the guide (or use a script) to install your codecs...Ubuntu is probably not at your skill level. Its a medium difficulty distro. To change that would require charging for it (that what Linspire does, it plays every file legally out of the box).

[NoTiG]

One almost thinks that linspire and ubuntu conspire >< . I mean if ubuntu made it easier, then "sending more green users to llinspire" would be nullified.... Also i saw that picture of Mr shuttle worth and the linspire ceo together :/ .....

the thing is ubuntu COULD be for medium users AND newbie users... and the more regular users there are the more it benefits everyone because more developer attention will be acquired. So by being so rigid it is distancing itself iMO .

If it is illegal to include an auto mate script like the one in this forum then how about a link to the script? or a pop up like mandriva has. If its with in the realm of legality.....

if ubuntu is not for new users then why is there a new user forum? why does the automate script even exist if it is not necessary?

[UbuWu]

Grokster recently got demolished by the Supreme Court because that P2P service was blatently used for stealing.Thats means blatent and easy copyright infringment with no other good reason for its existance=your ass is grass. I don't want the same to happen to Ubuntu.


That was not because it was used for stealing, but because they advertised it could be used to do that...

[BWF89]

For me BitTorrent is extremely slow, about 15-30KB/s. If it weren't that inorder to download bootleg Dreamcast games I'd rather not use it at all.

I use BitTornado (it's the best BT client in my opinion) and even when I opened all the right ports on my Windows XP Firewall and disabled my McAfee Firewall it still downloaded at the same slow speed.

[poofyhairguy]

That was not because it was used for stealing, but because they advertised it could be used to do that...

Going to Limewire's site shows me that they are REALLY close to doing that themselves:


LimeWire allows you to share any file such as.mp3s, .avis, jpgs, tiffs, etc.

And then they way they advertise the pay for version....hmmm....they don't even really try to make up and excuse for the software on the site. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like they might need one in the future.

Plus....its irrelevant....its not Free software (GNU kind) so it will never be included out the box.

Its not a bad idea....just impractical.

[NoTiG]

might gtk gnutella eventually then once it matures?

[pmj]

No matter what you want to download, legal stuff or warez, nothing beats BitTorrent. If you *really* want to use something inferior, like Limewire, you can install that on your own.

[poofyhairguy]

might gtk gnutella eventually then once it matures?


It is a possibility. That is free software, so I can see its merits.

Ubuntu and gtk gnutella are still infants in development. In two releases (aka after we have most the needed GUIs finished and more of the big goals completed) when the enterprise version comes, it might have many neat and new things.

[Burgundavia]

For the record, I seriously doubt Limewire is going to become default anytime soon.

Free java is also already included in Breezy.

Corey

[NoTiG]

free java sounds good... at least that will be one less issue... if you want to install something with java (azureus, limewire etc.......)

[UbuWu]

its not Free software (GNU kind) so it will never be included out the box.

Limewire IS opensource and is released under the GPL, so that wouldn't be a problem. The pro version isn't. See http://www.limewire.org/ for more information...

[NoTiG]

Limewire IS opensource and is released under the GPL, so that wouldn't be a problem. The pro version isn't. See http://www.limewire.org/ for more information...

thats what i thought! :P

[poofyhairguy]

thats what i thought! :P

I apologize.