Some questions

[loserboy]

Hey,
I was gonna make multiple posts since there are unrelated subjects here, but oh well.

First, are there any completely self taught python programmers that feel proficient with it even without formal training, or without learning other languages?

Secondly, does DarkBasic have any potential for making serious games or being a step towards making serious games?
I'm not interested in DarkBasic, but my friend has just signed up for some classes for it and he seems pretty excited. I was wondering if it can make use of opengl, or can be combined with python in any way.

The deal is I want to learn python, I bought "Learning Python" by O'reilly and I've been reading some tutorials online. Games aren't really my goal, but it would be cool to do anything useful at this point. any other recommendations for me?

People's opinions don't seem to be very high of DarkBasic, but honestly I'm just glad the guy is doing something besides wasting time (I hope he never sees this post)

[bclark]

I've never even heard of DarkBasic.

As for Python, I taught it to myself and mainly use it as a quick and dirty tool for scripts at my job, but it can do a lot more.

If I were you I would just start writing anything in Python, to familiarize yourself with it.

[pmasiar]

I cannot answer 1st question - I came to Python after more than dozen other languages... So let me tell you you guys have it *so* much easier than we did :-)

I don't know DarkBasic, but I would not expect it to be more than a niche fringe language.

If you want to program games, IMHO much sounder foundation for beginners would be pygames. Or if you don't mind Windows only, Game Maker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_maker) is excellent system optimized to make games with little or no text editing (uses highly specialized GUI instead, and it is really simple and a lot of fun).

Python would be useful beyond games: it is becoming mainstream language, used for rapid web app development, managing scientific data, etc. With python and some C libraries for speed, you can solve almost any programming task, faster and simpler than any other combination of languages.

See wiki in my sig for useful links and training tasks to solve.

[loserboy]

http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/ - DarkBASIC page


As for Python, I taught it to myself and mainly use it as a quick and dirty tool for scripts at my job, but it can do a lot more.

that's what I was thinking to start with, just making a program that will run scripts like automatix, except it would be just for me and really simple.

[trak87]

You can learn a lot yourself with the help of books and the web. Yes, you can become proficient without formal training. When you get stuck, asks questions online. Go as far as you want and then take some courses. There's a lot you can learn in a classroom that you won't get online. But for now you can struggle along as someone learning their first language. It can be fun. And maddening. Learning subsequent languages is easier because the basics are always the same: sequences, loops, decisions, procedure calls, variables, etc.

[loserboy]

You can learn a lot yourself with the help of books and the web. Yes, you can become proficient without formal training. When you get stuck, asks questions online. Go as far as you want and then take some courses. There's a lot you can learn in a classroom that you won't get online. But for now you can struggle along as someone learning their first language. It can be fun. And maddening. Learning subsequent languages is easier because the basics are always the same: sequences, loops, decisions, procedure calls, variables, etc.

That's what I wanted to hear.

now the only question is, has anyone heard of DarkBASIC

[pmasiar]

You can learn a lot yourself with the help of books and the web. Yes, you can become proficient without formal training.

Yes, you can - but employers are often concerned about formal education and certification. Unless you are well-known developer, you will have this barrier and will have to prove yourself every time (and it will not be simple). Some very interesting places to work (ie our university) requires at least BA/BS degree and cannot hire you on permanent position without it.

Formal degree is not a replacement for experience, i will be first to agree. But degree has it's place: gives your knowledge structure, it is easier to see where different facts fit big picture.

Is there some reason why getting at a degree from some local college is a problem? It does not have to be MIT. :-)

[loserboy]

im not concerened with a degree, but I would like to take classes if I had time.
I work 5-7 days a week and I'm always on call, the last class I tried to take was just a 1 Spanish class and I missed many nights because of work.