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hellmet
July 5th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Several times, I've installed Ubuntu for a friend of mine ( shud I even call him that ?) on a dual-boot basis, I finally thought I managed to get him onto linux when his XP started giving all sorts of troubles, and I got him to use only ubuntu.

Alas, that relief was shortlived. His room-mates, are dumb assholes, and they cannot and do not want to adjust to a new environment, is what he says. He's installing his pirated XP tomorrow again. I'm so frustrated, I feel like banging my head on my kbd for having even tried to suggest ubuntu to anyone, coz each time I take pain and effort in installing ubuntu, the codecs and educate them about things, they come back to XP.

I'm sure MS is gng to love this thread.
Sry for letting off my steam here. Its just been too bad a day for me already.

PriceChild
July 5th, 2007, 06:43 PM
Ubuntu isn't for everyone :)

Just sit back in comfort of the knowledge that you know better :)

timcredible
July 5th, 2007, 06:48 PM
lots of people are afraid of change, and many don't want to learn anything. i'm still shocked when i setup someone's computer for dual-booting, and they boot into windows to make sure it's still there, and it's got viruses or something that causes it to work at about 5% of what it should and keeps blue screening, and they still use it as much as possible, then boot into linux only when the pain is too great.

wolfen69
July 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM
dont convert too many people,i need my windows customers!!!!

Atomic Dog
July 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM
95/98/2K/XP have been around so long, and have basically worked similarly that a generation of people are familiar with the GUI and feel comfortable with it. How can you blame them? I can work my way around XP way better than Ubuntu because I am intimately familiar with it.

For people that basically browse it's fairly easy to convert. Start them with using Firefox in XP, then in a month switch them to ubuntu. I did this with a few users and they had little trouble with the conversion. Of course this is for people that basically use their computer to surf. If specific programs are needed it can get more sticky. For these cases I install a windows VM. If your buddy insists on installing a hot copy of XP, why not install that same hot copy onto a VM and see if that satisfies them. VirtualBox seems to be popular around here.

DM was on fire!
July 5th, 2007, 06:53 PM
I agree with the fact that Ubuntu isn't for everyone.
It's a lot like Windows, but you still have to know a lot of terminal commands to make it work. My dad sent off for the Ubuntu discs and tried it out on his computer first. He then reinstalled Linspire Five-O (which he's much more used to) about two weeks later.

As for the obsession with XP...I have no prior experience with XP (I've use ME for my offline computer, and very rarily use 2k Pro), but my dad has, back when it was first released. I've heard now that the bugs are gone, XP is a wonderful operating system.
Meh. It just isn't for me.

Did you try telling for friends that there's a whole forum of us Linux nerds to help them out?
...also, did you mention that everything is free?

skillllllz
July 5th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Ubuntu isn't for everyone :)

Just sit back in comfort of the knowledge that you know better :)

I totally agree here.

Know that many of us have, and at times still do, experience the very same frustrations. Be excited with where you stand, my friend; you are far more versatile than most folks now. If and when others come to you willingly for assistance with Linux, only then will they be truly receptive to your influence. In the meantime, take advantage of all the learning you can. ;)

strabes
July 5th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Why does the stubborness of his roommates affect what OS he uses on his computer? I don't see the connection.

justin whitaker
July 5th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Why does the stubborness of his roommates affect what OS he uses on his computer? I don't see the connection.

Maybe his roomies cannot find the pron on an Ubuntu system. :p

forrestcupp
July 5th, 2007, 07:33 PM
True, Ubuntu is not for everyone, but it sucks that he spent all of that time and energy installing and setting things up to work well, only for it all to be wiped away or ignored. After installing from the disk, downloading and installing about 200 updates, then getting all of the codecs to work, then downloading and installing all of the essential apps that aren't included out of the box, that's a lot of time and work. It's almost a slap in the face.

I feel for you.

hellmet
July 5th, 2007, 07:35 PM
I totally agree here.

Know that many of us have, and at times still do, experience the very same frustrations. Be excited with where you stand, my friend; you are far more versatile than most folks now. If and when others come to you willingly for assistance with Linux, only then will they be truly receptive to your influence. In the meantime, take advantage of all the learning you can. ;)
Thats what I'm gonna do from now. Never try to propagate as that may backfire. I'm known as the troubleshooter among my friends. But, I stopped troubleshooting ppl. with XP.

hellmet
July 5th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Did you try telling for friends that there's a whole forum of us Linux nerds to help them out?
...also, did you mention that everything is free?

Heh.. they would never even bother to scourge thru so many posts. They just want their system to work. And free? Ain't pirated XP free too?:mad:

This friend of mine, I'm sure, is using his room-mates' excuse to get out of Linux. I've seen him being not too comfortable with ubuntu. These guys are very rigid ppl you see!!
I guess it was my mistake to take this issue till the last straw!! Maybe, I shud have stopped trying after the first time.


@forrestcup. Thanks for understanding.

GeeZor
July 5th, 2007, 07:39 PM
there are just two kind of people...
people that use computers and people that like playing around with them..
two different worlds, two different needs....

GeeZor
July 5th, 2007, 07:42 PM
and Linux rocks :)

bliffle
July 5th, 2007, 09:50 PM
What they're paying for (sometimes)_ with XP, is support. When something goes wrong they either consult with MS or theauthor of the software.. Sure, the programs are slow and buggy, but eventually they run.

And ubuntu has some drawbacks. What's bugging me lately is that things mysteriously stop working (like the audio) or even disappear (like Googleearth, which just completely disappeared from my computer.

wolfen69
July 5th, 2007, 11:03 PM
ya, i know. my sources.list was mysteriously wiped out. but it was no big deal putting repos back on.

cunawarit
July 5th, 2007, 11:16 PM
A couple of things; the XP way of doing things is almost de facto standard, it is the only thing most people know. Imagine being given a car with the accelerator on the left and the brake on the right, would you get used to it that quickly?

Secondly XP is great! Admittedly it does have issues to do with security, but overall it is incredibly stable, and there's so much software available for it that it arguably it is the best home desktop there is.

Personally, I love XP. I have just placed an order for a work machine with Vista. I was hesitant, I know my productivity may suffer a little, but hey it seemed like time to try it :)

tgbrowning
July 5th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Personally, I love XP. I have just placed an order for a work machine with Vista. I was hesitant, I know my productivity may suffer a little, but hey it seemed like time to try it :)

Good luck, because I, for one, think you're going toneed it. Vista is the reason I went to Ubuntu in the first place. I got so bloody sick of Microsloth gotchas and snooping that I ditched my Vista machine entirely. Gave it to my daughter, prayed for her mental stability and went back to an older machine, which I then switched to Ubuntu.

Be aware that Windows Vista, Home basic, will not let you do a factory restore! How's that for high handed?

Browning>>>

diesel1
July 5th, 2007, 11:29 PM
Thats what I'm gonna do from now. Never try to propagate as that may backfire. I'm known as the troubleshooter among my friends. But, I stopped troubleshooting ppl. with XP.


I too refuse to administer/problem solve Microsoft products for people, I will help people with generic problems like 'how do I crop this picture?' etc.

The one exception was my Mother, but she has seen the light and uses Kubuntu now.

Diesel1.

cunawarit
July 5th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Be aware that Windows Vista, Home basic, will not let you do a factory restore!

Come on, it is a work machine, not some el-cheapo home machine. It comes with the Vista Business install media. I hope it'll be OK, :) if not we have XP licenses anyway.

zero244
July 6th, 2007, 12:04 AM
I like XP mainly because I have too. All my hardware works on it.
Using third party software you can lock it down very secure........but if you let your guard down at the wrong time you can get wiped out.
Linux is secure out of the box. I will keep XP around only as long as I have too. I hope I don't have to buy any more software from MS.
Ubuntu with beryl is a very good combination.
Its liberating to be using a OS like Ubuntu. With very accomplished users to converse with.

tgbrowning
July 6th, 2007, 01:56 AM
Come on, it is a work machine, not some el-cheapo home machine. It comes with the Vista Business install media. I hope it'll be OK, :) if not we have XP licenses anyway.

Glad to hear it. Hope everything works out just dandy for you and no, I'm not being sarcastic.

I just had to buy a new computer for my daughter who's going away (and I mean *far away*) to college next month. Circuit City had plenty of notebook computers to chose from and *all* of them had some flavor of Vista as the OS. I gritted my teeth, bought her one and then quickly went home with it and turned it into a Vista/Ubuntu system.

Oddly enough, my daughter liked the idea and seems to think Ubuntu is a better OS than Windoze. I swear I haven't been brainwashing her. Honest. She just doesn't like how bloody long it takes for Vista to boot. Ubuntu takes less than a third of the time and run twice as fast.

Browning>>>

kamaboko
July 6th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Convincing people to change from an OS that they're comfortable with to something new is like asking them to learn to write with their other hand.

Nikron
July 6th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Personally, the only time I would ever ever install linux for someone is if they beg me to do it. Oddly enough, this has happened to me. So, I installed Slackware.

steven8
July 6th, 2007, 03:43 AM
Personally, the only time I would ever ever install linux for someone is if they beg me to do it. Oddly enough, this has happened to me. So, I installed Slackware.

Yes, it's all about comfort zone. XP is a good OS, but if the person had only used Ubuntu for a few years, then tried to switch, they'd be going back to ubuntu as well.

Quillz
July 6th, 2007, 04:17 AM
Several times, I've installed Ubuntu for a friend of mine ( shud I even call him that ?) on a dual-boot basis, I finally thought I managed to get him onto linux when his XP started giving all sorts of troubles, and I got him to use only ubuntu.

Alas, that relief was shortlived. His room-mates, are dumb assholes, and they cannot and do not want to adjust to a new environment, is what he says. He's installing his pirated XP tomorrow again. I'm so frustrated, I feel like banging my head on my kbd for having even tried to suggest ubuntu to anyone, coz each time I take pain and effort in installing ubuntu, the codecs and educate them about things, they come back to XP.

I'm sure MS is gng to love this thread.
Sry for letting off my steam here. Its just been too bad a day for me already.
What ever happened to letting people use what works for them? You mentioned Ubuntu, they tried it, they didn't like it, can't you just leave well enough alone?

A guy I know suggested I try Gentoo Linux over Ubuntu Linux, so I did. I must say Gentoo is very nice, but for me, I went through the extremely long installation process, only to have my Wi-Fi completely borked, I just couldn't fix it. Guess what? I went back to Ubuntu, and I haven't been hounded by the guy for giving on Gentoo, since it didn't work for me.

hellmet
July 6th, 2007, 04:56 AM
What ever happened to letting people use what works for them? You mentioned Ubuntu, they tried it, they didn't like it, can't you just leave well enough alone?

A guy I know suggested I try Gentoo Linux over Ubuntu Linux, so I did. I must say Gentoo is very nice, but for me, I went through the extremely long installation process, only to have my Wi-Fi completely borked, I just couldn't fix it. Guess what? I went back to Ubuntu, and I haven't been hounded by the guy for giving on Gentoo, since it didn't work for me.
The problem is that these guys never told me that they were indeed having a difficult time with ubuntu. Each time they only said that they needed more time getting used to it, and they'd dual boot and learn ubuntu slowly. But, they always were ready to hit the down arrow at the grub to get into XP. :(

Quillz
July 6th, 2007, 05:06 AM
The problem is that these guys never told me that they were indeed having a difficult time with ubuntu. Each time they only said that they needed more time getting used to it, and they'd dual boot and learn ubuntu slowly. But, they always were ready to hit the down arrow at the grub to get into XP. :(
And again, so what? So they prefer Wndows, big deal, it doesn't affect you in any way, just move on.

Atomic Dog
July 6th, 2007, 05:59 AM
I do want to add that once you have had to waste hours de-spywareing, de-virusing and de-adbotting a Windows machine you really appreciate Ubuntu/linux. I have done it so many times I wanna puke when I get a call saying porn/ads/whatever keeps popping up on their system. Of course I get paid to do it, so I do it and curse Bill gates for making such a weak-securitied system.

Quillz
July 6th, 2007, 06:14 AM
I do want to add that once you have had to waste hours de-spywareing, de-virusing and de-adbotting a Windows machine you really appreciate Ubuntu/linux. I have done it so many times I wanna puke when I get a call saying porn/ads/whatever keeps popping up on their system. Of course I get paid to do it, so I do it and curse Bill gates for making such a weak-securitied system.
Bill Gates didn't make Windows XP, and a smart computer user will get little spyware, malware and viruses.

newbie2
July 6th, 2007, 06:21 AM
His room-mates, are dumb assholes, and they cannot and do not want to adjust to a new environment, is what he says.
i know...same experience here...one of my kids' argument is that his 'mates' only use MSN to chat with each other and he (and they) like (only windows) games, and don't wonna try 'some workaround' with wine or so .:(

Quillz
July 6th, 2007, 06:27 AM
Because WINE doesn't work that well with all the popular games. And that's a perfectly valid argument. Why should a gamer waste time messing with an OS that may not even work out for them? If Windows plays their games and gets their work done, that's all that should matter.

kopinux
July 6th, 2007, 06:50 AM
experienced it too.
xp is xp, but i noticed people who wants or tried vista is the perfect target for ubuntu.

DagMan
July 6th, 2007, 06:55 AM
Several times, I've installed Ubuntu for a friend of mine ( shud I even call him that ?) on a dual-boot basis, I finally thought I managed to get him onto linux when his XP started giving all sorts of troubles, and I got him to use only ubuntu.

Alas, that relief was shortlived. His room-mates, are dumb assholes, and they cannot and do not want to adjust to a new environment, is what he says. He's installing his pirated XP tomorrow again. I'm so frustrated, I feel like banging my head on my kbd for having even tried to suggest ubuntu to anyone, coz each time I take pain and effort in installing ubuntu, the codecs and educate them about things, they come back to XP.

I'm sure MS is gng to love this thread.
Sry for letting off my steam here. Its just been too bad a day for me already.
Maybe you can install it for him in Virtualbox, it's was the easiest emulator to set up that I've done yet and it's impressivly fast. They would be using the Virtualbox install most of the time but still would be able to play around with a Linux OS.

samjh
July 6th, 2007, 06:55 AM
They're voting with their wallets - or in this case, their installations. Ubuntu obviously is not for them, so you can't blame them for choosing to continue using Windows.

Most people like to stick to what is proven to work for them, rather than moving to an alternative that they have no experience with. And in the case of Windows and Linux, Windows is not really bad enough to warrant a total conversion for 99% of PC users.

Look at cars. Almost every car is controlled by a steering wheel. But some informal studies with professional racing drivers have shown that better control is afforded by using a joystick-like mechanism. I don't think anyone will kid themselves into thinking that car makers will suddenly produce cars with joysticks instead of steering wheels. ;) Numerous examples of such things exist in other industries and products.

What is technically better, is not always acceptable.

Circus-Killer
July 6th, 2007, 06:57 AM
to be honest, that is exactly why i've stopped trying to convert friends. my friends know i run linux, and if they should ever choose to try it out, they know i'm more than happy to help out. i am also willing to help out anybody from my area that wants to learn ubuntu. but i have come to the realisation that you cant convert people that dont want to convert.

the truth is that the person needs the will to convert, and only once they have the willingness, can you begin teaching them.

SWBgHz
July 6th, 2007, 06:57 AM
, I feel like banging my head on my kbd for having even tried to suggest ubuntu to anyone, coz each time I take pain and effort in installing ubuntu, the codecs and educate them about things, they come back to XP.

Perhaps if the pain and effort of Linux (as a desktop) continues to diminish as it has the last couple years people will not be so quick to retreat from it. But for that to happen alot still needs to change and alot of that change means accepting the defacto norm that Windows has established, like it or not - it is the expectation that must be met.

GFC2
July 6th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Glad to hear it. Hope everything works out just dandy for you and no, I'm not being sarcastic.

I just had to buy a new computer for my daughter who's going away (and I mean *far away*) to college next month. Circuit City had plenty of notebook computers to chose from and *all* of them had some flavor of Vista as the OS. I gritted my teeth, bought her one and then quickly went home with it and turned it into a Vista/Ubuntu system.

Oddly enough, my daughter liked the idea and seems to think Ubuntu is a better OS than Windoze. I swear I haven't been brainwashing her. Honest. She just doesn't like how bloody long it takes for Vista to boot. Ubuntu takes less than a third of the time and run twice as fast.

Browning>>>

Sounds like the startup and services in Vista need to be configured properly. Once that's done, it's less than a minute from power switch to login. Faster than Ubuntu in my experience.

coldstatue
July 6th, 2007, 07:05 AM
I started messing with linux (slackware) when the first-gen imacs came out. Is was too complicated, and i gave up. When I saw the Beryl vids hit you Tube, I got interested again. I got a quad boot completely working last november. I still used win for "important stuff." Linux was for play time. finally, in March, I found myself playing with ubuntu all the time, but booting into Win to do serious work. In May, I finally decided to make the switch... for good. It' unnerving when you have an environment that you feel comfortable with to shake everything up. Especially in the middle of a semester, or work project, whatever. Ubuntu is totally for me, and i will never go back, but the switch takes some self-determination. As others have mentioned. The user has to want it... bad. It's almost like learning a new language. Especially for basic users - like me.

Atomic Dog
July 6th, 2007, 07:14 AM
Yes. You do have to want it. Learning Ubuntu can be hair raising at times, but once you get used to it it isn't that bad.

Windows Vista, which I have on this laptop, is just crap. I can see Vista making people try something different. I hand out live CD's to people at work and suggest they give it a try.

Quillz
July 6th, 2007, 07:31 AM
Yes. You do have to want it. Learning Ubuntu can be hair raising at times, but once you get used to it it isn't that bad.

Windows Vista, which I have on this laptop, is just crap. I can see Vista making people try something different. I hand out live CD's to people at work and suggest they give it a try.
Vista is a very good OS to me, I don't find it crap at all. Sure, I use an iMac and Mac OS X now, but that's because I've been wanting to switch to the Mac platform for a long time, it's not actually because of Vista.

mdsmedia
July 6th, 2007, 11:00 AM
Heh.. they would never even bother to scourge thru so many posts. They just want their system to work. And free? Ain't pirated XP free too?.That's why I love Linux and OSS. I can have FREE and free and not feel guilty about it. And I get all the security updates and know I'm right up to date.

tgbrowning
July 6th, 2007, 10:55 PM
Sounds like the startup and services in Vista need to be configured properly. Once that's done, it's less than a minute from power switch to login. Faster than Ubuntu in my experience.

I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be done to speed things up. I'll let my daughter work them out for herself. As for Ubuntu's speed loading, I've got no complaints. Seems to take between thirty seconds and a minute which is fine by me.

Browning>>>

init1
July 7th, 2007, 01:58 AM
there are just two kind of people...
people that use computers and people that like playing around with them..
two different worlds, two different needs....
I agree. I like to explore options. When I found Fedora at Barns and Noble, I bought it, not knowing anything about Linux. But now, I know so much and consider myself to be an expert. I have had so much fun, not only with Ubuntu, but with other distros as well. Some don't care about that, they just want to be productive, and if Windows does it, they won't change because they won't see the point.

init1
July 7th, 2007, 02:00 AM
I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be done to speed things up. I'll let my daughter work them out for herself. As for Ubuntu's speed loading, I've got no complaints. Seems to take between thirty seconds and a minute which is fine by me.

Browning>>>
Try Hal91 on a USB drive. It takes about 3 seconds to boot. If it had any good apps, it would be useful, but it doesn't.