What's the general opinion on Automatix?

[Bothered]

I have seen automatix recommended quite a few times as a way to install software, and almost as many times seen warnings that it can cause problems with the system. Are people giving warnings about it being over cautious, or should it genuinely be avoided?

Incidentally, I personally have the automatix repository in my sources.list, but haven't installed automatix itself as I prefer more direct control over installation of software.

[Wiebelhaus]

I dig it , have used it for awhile without any issues , I'd recommend it to a noob quick.

But I haven't tried to upgrade with it , I'll back up everything with the next release and try it , if it fails , I'll know you need to remove it and everything it installed prior to upgrading.

[jkblacker]

Ubuntu does everything I need it to (and a bit more) without having needed it. About 3 months in now, and can do stuff by myself fine at the moment.

[orange2k]

I have seen automatix recommended quite a few times as a way to install software, and almost as many times seen warnings that it can cause problems with the system. Are people giving warnings about it being over cautious, or should it genuinely be avoided?

Incidentally, I personally have the automatix repository in my sources.list, but haven't installed automatix itself as I prefer more direct control over the software I install.

Well I use Automatix2 a lot every time I install Ubuntu. Why? Its the fastest way to get everything working. I know you can get everything installed manually, but why bother? These scripts are there for you to use them. I don`t see a reason how it could cause any problems, but I might be wrong...

[johnc4510]

I think it is better to learn how to do these things yourself instead of letting someone else do them for you. In that way, you will learn the system quicker and feel more in control of it. That being said automatix isn't bad, it is just another tool to work with. If you need something up and running quickly, it's ok. If not, it is my recommendation that you try to find the answers here on the forum. Learning is the fun part of Ubuntu.

[smoker]

i must have installed it at least a dozen times in different computers and never had a problem with it, so from my experience, i have no difficulty reccommending it.

[FoolsGold_MKII]

I used it when I was first starting to learn Ubuntu. It made life a lot easier, particularly since it prepackaged all the stuff they knew people would first want to install. But there were bugs - when I was using it, if a tool failed to install for some reason, it would be marked by Automatix as installed and you've have to click the uninstall tab, "uninstall" the tool and try again. There were other issues such as xchat trying to be installed with an extra package that conflicted with an existing package, but Automatix wasn't smart enough to deal with this.

Nowadays I do everything by hand.

[loell]

i did use automatix in the past from dapper to edgy , and i didn't have any issues with it,
currently i'm trying to test if i can avoid automatix in fiesty and am still listing the advantages and disadvantages of not having to install automatix. i think i'll be using back automatix in gutsy.

[maagimies]

I dig it, I used to do everything by hand but when I install Ubuntu systems nowadays I use Automatix to save time.
I do recommend learning to do it all yourself in case Automatix fails though.

[Xanatos Craven]

I use Automatix and haven't had a single problem with it, but I think it'd have been better if the effort that went into creating things like itself, CNR and Easy Ubuntu instead went into making it much easier to install third-party software in a vanilla Ubuntu install.

[Ireclan]

Once I had it explained to me WHY Automatix was being actively worked against by some of the prominent forum staff, I avoided it. The way it was explained to me is that it works outside Synaptic, and thus does not make Synaptic aware of the changes it makes. This is dangerous, obviously.

[starcraft.man]

A single line sums up my opinion of Automatix, it also happens to be an old saying. "You can give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish and cook and he will eat for a life time."

All the tools needed are installed in Ubuntu, Software Sources, Synaptic Package Manager, Restricted Driver Management and even Add/Remove provide useful GUIs (there are of course CLI equivalents). I believe anyone can use these and understand concepts like software repositories, sources list, authentication keys and packages. The concepts aren't hard, and neither is using them. Any person who has the time to venture into learning/trying to use Ubuntu can spend 20-30 minutes understanding how to install things. Thus, I always promote learning the OS, rather than the quick fix for new people. It is better in the long run, thats proven from my experience I believe.

Thats my thoughts, you use/promote what you feel is right.

[DreamcastJack]

if you're new and want to get everything working fast, go for it. but I only used it for a little wile.. installing I need became a cake walk with-in about a week. so I have no use for it.

[loell]

notice to the OP,

this had been discussed numerous times in the past and mostly in my observation, the argument didn't end up well.

just so you know ;)

[joep]

I use it and have upgraded without any problem. :)

[Xanatos Craven]

Once I had it explained to me WHY Automatix was being actively worked against by some of the prominent forum staff, I avoided it. The way it was explained to me is that it works outside Synaptic, and thus does not make Synaptic aware of the changes it makes. This is dangerous, obviously.
Hmm? Wouldn't this only be true for software that doesn't have a .deb package or repository to use? Most of the stuff in Automatix are standard Ubuntu packages, last I checked.


I believe anyone can use these and understand concepts like software repositories, sources list, authentication keys and packages. The concepts aren't hard, and neither is using them.
Yeah, sure, but a system that's easy to use still isn't easy enough for Windows people. There's still room for improvement to combine the strengths of Windows exe files (being able to install software without having to jump through any hoops) with the security aspects and quality control of Linux. For example, being able to click on a link on a webpage and (after approving the change, of course) adding a repository or installing a package from one without having to download from the site itself. And then maybe Automatix could take the form of a website instead of a separate program that circumvents how Ubuntu works.

[loell]

A single line sums up my opinion of Automatix, it also happens to be an old saying. "You can give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish and cook and he will eat for a life time."


but wouldn't you agree, that in modern times not everyone is born to fish? ;) that's why we have the fish market today :D

same implication can be applied in the discussion.

[Drifter]

Automatix is just fine use it no problems with yet.

[Foxmike]

Well, basically, Automatix was well worth back when I was more complicated than it is now to get restricted format codecs and other cool stuff that where not in Ubuntu's repositories. But by now, those issues have mostly been solved upstream so this make Automatix, IMHO, irrelevant. Actually, I don't see how installing a third party software to do basically the same job Synaptic does flawlessly is more efficient than directly using Synaptic (or any provided/supported package manager).

One thing I came to dislike with Automatix is that it installs some third party repositories. I want total control over repositories listed in my sources.list. I'm pretty sure that Automatix guys are doing their best to make sure that the added repositories are good/safe but still, I just don't feel comfortable getting them in my sources.list. As well, after that, if something breaks up, it can be a lot harder to get support.

There are nice'n'dirty ways of installing software on an Ubuntu machine, even for a complete newbie. There is no longer need for that tool IMHO.

[Ralob]

I have heard many horror stories about Automatix, so I stick with Synaptic. Sure it takes some patience, but you have to learn some time.

[starcraft.man]

Yeah, sure, but a system that's easy to use still isn't easy enough for Windows people.

We write Ubuntu for WIndows people? I thought we wrote Ubuntu for Ubuntu/Linux users? Are you confused? How do you define easy enough? Is it the Windows standard the one we must code for? Perhaps Windows users are the ones that are uninformed (I know numerous who don't know what a partition is)?

In my experience, people who want something "as easy or easy enough" in Windows terms, will use Windows (they often confuse ease with familiarity). They want codecs installed by default, they want drivers to work flawlessly (no excuses) and they expect not to think much. Those users don't want Linux (any distro) at all.


There's still room for improvement to combine the strengths of Windows exe files (being able to install software without having to jump through any hoops) with the security aspects and quality control of Linux. For example, being able to click on a link on a webpage and (after approving the change, of course) adding a repository or installing a package from one without having to download from the site itself. And then maybe Automatix could take the form of a website instead of a separate program that circumvents how Ubuntu works.

Go through hoops on Linux?
CLI :
- Open terminal.
- sudo aptitude install k3b libk3b2-mp3
- 1 minute (or less) later....
- K3b installed

Synaptic:
- Open Synaptic
- Search for "k3b"
- Check "k3b" "libk3b2-mp3"
- Push apply and installed.

By my definition, thats pretty easy. I used to (and to some extent still am, dual boot) a Windows user (you mentioned they have a certain standard above in your generalization). After knowing what to do, it's as simple as double clicking (its natural to me to do it). Both ways seem easier (or at worst no harder or more time consuming) to me than an exe (clicking through screens, configuring options, agreeing to EULA, setting path to install, waiting for install).


but wouldn't you agree, that in modern times not everyone is born to fish? ;) that's why we have the fish market today :D

same implication can be applied in the discussion.

I think you live in the wrong century. In modern times, people don't even want to go to a fish market anymore, they buy at the Grocery Chain. The store has precut/boned, salted and cooked the food beforehand and wrapped it ready to eat in 5 minutes. They no longer put any effort into it, thusly, the fresh markets are obsolete and all but gone. That doesn't mean the fresh market doesn't have a better price or better taste, it just means folks don't wanna go out of way.

So, your analogy (corrected, because thats my experience of modern buying, I think its yours too) has just voided using Linux entirely (Grocery chain is Windows/OSX (closer to OSX, it comes with lots of preinstalled apps like Ubuntu) and their supposed ease of use). Nice analogy. :)

Moral: Be careful with your analogies.

[Xanatos Craven]

We write Ubuntu for Windows people?
You work for Canonical?

And it's not written for Ubuntu/Linux users either, as you say. It's written for "human beings"... most of which, unfortunately, use Windows.


How do you define easy enough?
As easy as Windows generally makes things. Though ease of use shouldn't be traded for the weaknesses of Windows (all the different install wizards out there, lack of repositories, etc.)


Go through hoops on Linux?
CLI :
- Open terminal.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA next.


Synaptic:
- Open Synaptic
- Search for "k3b"
- Check "k3b" "libk3b2-mp3"
- Push apply and installed.
Having multiple packages with the same name in them turn up would likely confuse a new user. They're more likely to use "Add / Remove Software" to fetch k3b.

Anyway, what I was trying to say, is that yeah, you can get software from the Ubuntu repo's easily, but installing third-party software that isn't in the default Ubuntu repositories could be made easier, instead of having to manually copy and paste a repository line, add a key and whatnot. GDebi can do this, but can't manage repositories. Automatix helps with this, but only to a limited extent for a limited set of programs. It'd have been better if this was worked on in Ubuntu itself.

[Atomic Dog]

Lets not hate on each other here. I use Automatix for some things as I just can't be bothered working in the terminal (I'm a GUI guy).

I would recommend it, but a person certainly can survive without it.

[ramjet_1953]

Automatix is great for people who just want to get their system up and running.

With the latest versions of Linux many people who use a PC as a tool and just want it to work are becoming interested in switching from Windows. These people are often not computer enthusiasts and just want an install to be as painless as possible.

Automatix is perfect for them.

For myself, I use it not because I can't install codecs, fonts etc myself, but because I have better things to do with my time.

I have used it on several machines, without the slightest problem.

There have been no issues when updates were downloaded and no surprises.

One caveat, though. Some of the downloads can take some time and a friend had some minor problems with broken packages when he aborted a running Automatix script mid-stream.

Regards,
Roger :cool:

[kevinlyfellow]

I used automatix once, and it confused apt a little bit, nothing major. That was either for breezy or hoary. I haven't used it since, and I was skeptical when people said to not use it. But then I was trying to help someone resolve some dependency issues with their multimedia players and when automatix showed up in the repositories, a lot was explained fast. apt was acting very odd, and I couldn't figure out how to help the person. Then that's when I started warning people about using it.

[loell]

I think you live in the wrong century. In modern times, people don't even want to go to a fish market anymore, they buy at the Grocery Chain. The store has precut/boned, salted and cooked the food beforehand and wrapped it ready to eat in 5 minutes. They no longer put any effort into it, thusly, the fresh markets are obsolete and all but gone.


perhaps i am living in the wrong century, or it could be because , that you're living in a first world country.
here in the south east asia and all of its third world class countries, fish markets are stil thriving.

but i think we are in the same page, the analogy of the availability of prepared goods in a store for the people.


(Grocery chain is Windows/OSX (closer to OSX, it comes with lots of preinstalled apps like Ubuntu) and their supposed ease of use). Nice analogy. :)


i wonder why you include , windows / osx, in this analogy for this particular discussion, we are only talking about automatix.

the one that caught me is

it just means folks don't wanna go out of way.

same reason why many people installs automatix

[Atomic Dog]

here in the south east asia and all of its third world class countries, fish markets are stil thriving.


The real moral of this thread: Don't knock raw fish till you have tried it.

[guitarmaniac]

I don't see the reason for all the negativity towards Automatix.
The excuse that you should learn how to install the software manually is just stupid, if you follow that logic, then why dont you just build your own distro from scratch as if you use the installer provided by ubuntu then you dont learn anything.
I use Automatix myself and havent had any problems. Whats the point of installing everything manually and it taking you a few days to find everything when you can do it in 10 min with Automatix?

[BigSilly]

I don't understand the fuss, but then I am pretty new to the Ubuntu game. I installed Automatix, and it has proved very, very useful to me. I like it, and would recommend it to other Linux converts. I've had absolutely no problems with it either.

/votes

What's the problem with it anyway?

[Circus-Killer]

Well, I voted for "No, I avoid it", but I dont have an issue with other people using it. I just prefer to install the packages I want manually. But I can see why people like and use atomatix. Personal preference, go with what you more comfortable with.

[jrusso2]

I have been using Linux for 11 years and I know how to do it "manually" because we had to in those days do pretty much everything manually.

But I have no problems using automatix it saves time and it seems to be reliable so far.

[Sunforge]

To be honest I think Automatix is a boon for beginners who just want to get working and learn about synaptic and other parts of the Ubuntu distro later on. When you're new to *nix it's good to have something friendly that in the main just works without having to delve through man pages.

I for one appreciate all the hard work that went into Automatix.

[frodon]

I don't think it is useful to have this discussion again and again, there're many threads on the forum on this topic so it shouldn't be too hard for you to find them and see what is the general opinion about automatix.

For those interested here is the official ubuntuforums stance about install scripts :
http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?f=13

Feel free to PM me if you have valid arguments to request this thread to be opened again.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, it is now closed.