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Feba
June 30th, 2007, 01:08 PM
I'm looking at getting a laptop soon, and I have no interest at all in anything that costs more than 400$.

I checked System76, their cheapest is 650$ or so, which is unacceptable to me. A store near here has an Acer for 350-400$, which is what I will probably buy, or the Nokia N800 (which isn't a full laptop, so I kinda have my doubts about it)

As much as I hate to support MS by buying a computer that comes with Vista, it doesn't look like i'm going to have much of a choice in this, so does anyone know of cheap, decent, linux laptops?

I know ASUS is coming out with one for 200$ish, but it isn't out now, and i'm not really in the mood to wait.

aimran
June 30th, 2007, 01:19 PM
By Linux laptops did you mean to say laptops where Linux can "work out of the box" ? If so I think there's a thread in the forums for laptops are well supported in Linux. Choose the cheapest from there methinks.

Feba
June 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM
I've looked through them. I hardly see any under 1000$, let alone 400$.

macogw
June 30th, 2007, 08:41 PM
I wasn't aware it was even possible to get a new laptop for under $600 (maybe $550). Desktops under $400? Sure, but they'll be pieces of crap. Laptops? Well, they used to always be double what an equivalent desktop would be, though now it's down to about 1.5x the price of the desktop. If you get the One Laptop Per Child laptop....well that's only $175. That's about it though. Um...have you tried Walmart? They have cheap crappy stuff, and sometimes Linspire. If you want it to be obsolete in 2 years or less, you might manage it. If you want to hold off buying a new computer for 3 years or more, you're going to HAVE to spend more than $600. The other option is to get a really good deal on a used laptop that still has nice specs.

The Asus $200 one is for Windows. It's more for Linux, I think, and it's a mini, so typing on it would likely require an extra keyboard unless you're 8 years old.

And the $ goes BEFORE the number.

SoulinEther
June 30th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Well, you can always buy an older laptop. I mean, old hardware runs Ubuntu just fine. Hell, my old desktop runs ubuntu just fine.

And macogw... my desktop cost meless than $400 (built it myself). It's not worth spending thousands of dollars on a desktop computer when it will go obsolete in two years in ANY case, heh.

And like I said, ubuntu runs just fine on it, so I have no troubles.

macogw
June 30th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Well, you can always buy an older laptop. I mean, old hardware runs Ubuntu just fine. Hell, my old desktop runs ubuntu just fine.

And macogw... my desktop cost meless than $400 (built it myself). It's not worth spending thousands of dollars on a desktop computer when it will go obsolete in two years in ANY case, heh.

And like I said, ubuntu runs just fine on it, so I have no troubles.

Self-built is always less than pre-built, and I'm guessing the OP wants pre-built for two reasons. 1. they wouldn't be asking where to buy one if they were going to just get parts. 2. laptops can't really be built "from scratch." Even whitebooks still come with all the parts which you pick from a limited sampling just like configuring a Dell and they almost ALWAYS include Windows. The same system from Dell or Gateway would probably have cost you at least $100 more. And no, it won't go obsolete in 2 years in "any" case. If you get good hardware with high specs (for instance, don't get a motherboard that maxes out at 2GB! get one that'll take up to 8GB and has 4 slots), it'll last a lot longer than 2 years.

Warpnow
June 30th, 2007, 08:57 PM
I'd never spend more than $500 on a desktop unless I did serious gaming. You can build a good dual core system now for about $300 base with a gig of ram.

Laptops, however, I'm more hesitant to buy cheap. My experience is that cheap laptops fall apart alot. There are lots of laptops at $399 and they all seem to have the same specs. It will probably be difficult to find one of these laptops that *happens* to be cheap and you *happen* to know it works entirely with linux.

Feba
June 30th, 2007, 09:00 PM
macogw, if you don't even have a clue (over half of your first post was just plain wrong.), don't bother.

Soulinether, I'd rather not. Most used laptops are horribly overpriced. Comparing the new 400$ laptop to a used one for 300$, I'm much better off buying the new one.

Warpnow, it's actually a fairly good quality model from a company I have some trust in (Acer), like I said, the problem isn't running Linux, i'm asking for a computer that COMES WITH IT so I don't have to pay for the Vista license as well.

macogw
June 30th, 2007, 09:13 PM
macogw, if you don't even have a clue (over half of your first post was just plain wrong.), don't bother.

I spend a good deal of time wandering around computer stores for fun (yes, I'm lame). Desktops are almost always cheaper than laptops (except comparing a cheap laptop and a good desktop). If you want something with a Celeron processor, 512MB of RAM, and a 60GB hard drive, $400 could do it. However, in 2 years, it'll be a paperweight. If you want something that's going to be useful for a while, you have to get something with better specs than that. Dell's the master of putting low-grade hardware into a box and selling it super-cheap, and their cheapest Linux laptop is $599.

And what was "just plain wrong"? I'd like a list.
The Asus $200 laptop IS a mini. Mini laptops have mini keyboards, and adult-sized fingers are generally incompatible with them.
Building a computer yourself IS cheaper than buying one pre-built.
Whiteboxes generally don't offer much in the way of configuration (look for yourself: http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=23&l2=130&l3=0&l4=0&model=606&modelmenu=2 there are no more configuration options on there than on a Dell, but this one comes in separate parts instead of put-together).

Here's a laptop that's $399. It's refurbished, but everything listed appears to be Linux-compatible (except the card-reader depending on what kind of card you want to use and what brand reader it is). http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TECRAM2-1B&cat=NBB&cpc=NBBbsc It has a tiny (40GB) hard drive, only 512MB of RAM, and a 1.5GHz processor. It comes with XP, which you'd have to remove. Last summer this would have already been considered out of date, but there you go, it's $400.

IMO, a computer with less than a Core Duo and less than 1GB of RAM is not worth buying at this point in time. That's what my 1 year old (mid-range at the time) laptop has. It was $850 after a 15% off sale (originally $1000). A new computer today should have 2GB of RAM.

Maybe it's because a lot of people seem to think it's "normal" to replace every couple of years (just look at what SoulinEther said!), but I cannot justify buying a cheap laptop. I expect my hardware to last at least 5 or 6 years, and I buy accordingly. If I spend $400 per laptop, replacing every 2 years, I will spend $1200 over the course of 6 years. If I spend $800 per laptop and it lasts me 6+ years, I've only spent $800. It's cheaper to invest more money in something that will last.

Feba
June 30th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I wasn't aware it was even possible to get a new laptop for under $600 (maybe $550). Desktops under $400? Sure, but they'll be pieces of crap. Wrong. A- Plenty of new laptops under 600 obviously, and B- cheap != crap.


If you get the One Laptop Per Child laptop....well that's only $175. That's about it thoughDo you even know what that is? How do you suggest I get one? Again, talking out of your ***.


Um...have you tried Walmart? They have cheap crappy stuff, and sometimes Linspire.
Again, talking out of your *** assuming wal-mart has cheap laptops AND they run linspire.

If you want it to be obsolete in 2 years or less, you might manage it. If you want to hold off buying a new computer for 3 years or more, you're going to HAVE to spend more than $600.Pure ********. I have a computer that's at least 7 years old, and it's still working fine for all the things I need this laptop for.


The other option is to get a really good deal on a used laptop that still has nice specs.Already mentioned, not entirely incorrect, but almost all used laptops are total **** for the price.


It's refurbished, but everything listed appears to be Linux-compatible... It comes with XP... So you didn't even read my first post, thanks for confirming that.

IMO, a computer with less than a Core Duo and less than 1GB of RAM is not worth buying at this point in time. That's what my 1 year old (mid-range at the time) laptop has. It was $850 after a 15% off sale (originally $1000). A new computer today should have 2GB of RAM.
Thanks, but if you'd read my post, you realize I don't give a crap what you think. I very specifically said "does anyone know of cheap, decent, linux laptops?"- not "does anyone know of cheap gaming laptops?"

SoulinEther
June 30th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Have you tried the usual suspects? Newegg.com / tigerdirect.com / frys.com ?

That Acer deal you have might beat all of them, though, so I'd hang on to that.

macogw
June 30th, 2007, 10:04 PM
Wrong. A- Plenty of new laptops under 600 obviously, and B- cheap != crap.

There's a strong correlation. You can't get a Core 2 Duo for the same price as a Celeron.


Do you even know what that is? How do you suggest I get one? Again, talking out of your ***.

I forgot the proper name for the laptop at the time. I just looked it up, and it's the XO. It is available to normal users. They were taking orders for them for $300 paid in advance to fund the project so that they could afford to start production and produce enough of them to bring the price point down from the current $175 to the projected-$100. I just looked it up though, and the deadline passed a while back. http://www.pledgebank.com/100laptop Still, it WAS available to the average person.

I was kind of joking though, because it's really a terrible laptop. It's a mini like the Asus, so the keyboard's tiny, and the keyboard is all rubbery and hard to use. It also freezes a LOT. We had to reboot it at Ubucon quite a few times.


Again, talking out of your *** assuming wal-mart has cheap laptops AND they run linspire.
Walmart sells computers with Linspire. I'm sorry if you weren't aware of it, but they've been doing it for a while. And everything at Walmart is cheap. They freaking bully their suppliers into dropping prices which often forces them to move production overseas to sweatshops.


Pure ********. I have a computer that's at least 7 years old, and it's still working fine for all the things I need this laptop for.
I guess you only run 2 or 3 programs at a time then, or you don't use Firefox. With 192MB of RAM I can't have Gaim and Firefox (on GNOME) going at the same time without a nearly unbearable slow-down (if I minimize one, I can't bring it back up--it just disappears instead of showing in the bottom taskbar...yay for alt+tab). I have a Pentium 2 and a 6-year-old Celeron. That doesn't mean I'd want to use them for everything. They take like 2 minutes each to boot, and then another minute after login to become usable, then everything runs super-slow.


Already mentioned, not entirely incorrect, but almost all used laptops are total **** for the price.
You can get some good deals. We used to sell some Pentium 3's for $250, which isn't bad.


So you didn't even read my first post, thanks for confirming that.
You only said no Vista :) I said it's Linux-compatible, which usually is the best you can do. Until recently, any computer that came with Linux was double the price of a Windows one. Dell, System76, and ZaReason are the most reasonably-priced pre-Linux-ed computers you'll find.


Thanks, but if you'd read my post, you realize I don't give a crap what you think. I very specifically said "does anyone know of cheap, decent, linux laptops?"- not "does anyone know of cheap gaming laptops?"
I said nothing about gaming. I don't game. I do like to multi-task though. Given Firefox's penchant for using more than 120MB of RAM at a time even with the cache set to 1MB, it's rather necessary to have quite a bit of RAM if you want to do much else. Also, I included the supposition that you want it to last. Right now, 512MB is outdated. Right now, 2GB is normal in a new computer, and 1GB is cheap. In 5 years, 8GB will probably be normal. 512MB will be as obsolete as my Pentium 2. Programs 5 years from now will be written with 5-years-from-now specs in mind. They will take advantage of the power of those computers. They will overwhelm a low-spec-from-now computer. Maybe it's a disagreement over the meaning of "decent." When I hear "decent" I think "good" not "passable." I mean, at the moment 512MB is probably fine to do what you need to do (the one I'm on at the moment has 768MB of RAM, it had 512MB but Beryl was too slow with that), but I like to think ahead. In a few years 512MB will be nothing. The "how can you function?!" response you'd get saying "I have 64MB of RAM" is the same response you'll get in a few years to "I have 512MB of RAM."

Feba
June 30th, 2007, 10:05 PM
linux laptops?
I think quoting the title answers that.

Feba
June 30th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Walmart sells computers with Linspire. I'm sorry if you weren't aware of it, but they've been doing it for a while. And everything at Walmart is cheap. They freaking bully their suppliers into dropping prices which often forces them to move production overseas to sweatshops.

Note what I said.

wal-mart has cheap laptops AND they run linspire.
You assume walmart has cheap laptops (they don't), and that said laptops run linspire (none of their laptops I saw ran linspire, but the cheap laptops don't exist in the first place)


You can get some good deals. We used to sell some Pentium 3's for $250, which isn't bad.
Compared to a modern laptop for 400$?


You only said no Vista
again wrong.

I said
I hate to support MS
and commented that the laptop RAN vista.


Given Firefox's penchant for using more than 120MB of RAM at a time even with the cache set to 1MB, it's rather necessary to have quite a bit of RAM if you want to do much else.
Have you ever heard of DeLi linux? There's better ways to make something last than putting a bunch of **** into it you won't use for half a decade.

Now unless you have a link to a company that sells laptops that don't support Microsoft, please just leave the thread alone

aimran
July 1st, 2007, 04:44 AM
Walmart sells computers with Linspire. I'm sorry if you weren't aware of it, but they've been doing it for a while. And everything at Walmart is cheap. They freaking bully their suppliers into dropping prices which often forces them to move production overseas to sweatshops.

Going OT because I just have to point this out:

There's nothing wrong with sweatshops. Why would someone in a developing world country work in a sweatshop under a foreign company? Because the sweatshop offers better pay (and maybe work conditions) than local companies.

Effect: Higher wages = higher standard of living.

I hate it when people talk about sweatshops like it was the plague. If your conscience tells you not to buy products from manufacturers employing people in sweatshops then think again. Not buying will cause these people to be out of jobs forcing them to go back to their original jobs which was less payed and had lower working conditions.

There is nothing wrong with sweatshops.

SoulinEther
July 1st, 2007, 05:43 AM
Going OT because I just have to point this out:

There's nothing wrong with sweatshops. Why would someone in a developing world country work in a sweatshop under a foreign company? Because the sweatshop offers better pay (and maybe work conditions) than local companies.

Effect: Higher wages = higher standard of living.

I hate it when people talk about sweatshops like it was the plague. If your conscience tells you not to buy products from manufacturers employing people in sweatshops then think again. Not buying will cause these people to be out of jobs forcing them to go back to their original jobs which was less payed and had lower working conditions.

There is nothing wrong with sweatshops.
I agree only partially. I suppose the philosophy is if people stop depending upon the sweatshops to make money, they'll end up turning to some other source.. or something.

But let's face a reality: there is enough money in America to end the hell these people in third world countries go through. But nobody wants to give it out. The same goes for many other industrialized nations.

Unless somebody does something, nothing is going to happen. The bystander effect is in full force; billions of people are waiting upon the other billions of people to do something - diffusion of responsibilty. Nobody ever will at this rate.

So for now, the sweatshops are not the worst thing for people... but supporting them isn't the best thing either.

InlawBiker
July 1st, 2007, 06:19 AM
I dunno how this thread got so strange but yeah, you can get a good laptop for $600. I've been pricing them out and it's definitely doable. No need to get a celeron - dual-core, 2gb ram, etc for $600 or so. Read on.

Greg's Quick Guide to a Cheap Linux Laptop.

1. Size. Pick your size - 17", 15" or 14" is the main. I prefer 14". 15" is the most common and therefore probably the best deal. Most people buy 15".

2. Components. Make sure the laptop has good Linux drivers. Here's a quick primer:
Good components: Intel or Nvidia graphics; Intel ethernet;
Bad components: ATI graphics; Creative sound cards; Broadcom ethernet

3. Try to find one with 512k RAM. Why? They over-charge you for RAM. Buy less, upgrade it yourself via an online merchant later. 1gb is probably fine, but 2gb of RAM is only $70 if you order and install it yourself. No lie.

4. Check the online merchants for deals. Here are some good resources:
http://www.techbargains.com/laptopcomputernotebookreview.cfm - lists all the good deals
http://bensbargains.net/category/5

5. Finally, you may not be aware that Dell is now selling Ubuntu pre-installed laptops. Not only are you guaranteed to have hardware with drivers that work, but you don't have to pay the extra for a copy of Vista. If you WANT a copy of Windows though, get one pre-installed. It's by far the cheapest way to obtain a legal copy.

Rules of Thumb:
* Always get Dual-core. No need to buy a single-core CPU these days.
* Buying used doesn't pay. Laptops hold value - Unless it's a steal, just buy new and get a warranty.
* If you REALLY travel with your laptop a lot - to class, train, bus, plane etc - get a good one! It makes a difference. The cheap ones are designed to sit there and never move. Move them around a lot and they will break. Trust me.

In the low-price category aim for: HP Pavilion or Gateway or Dell. Avoid Acer & Toshiba.

Examples deals:

CompUSA - HP Pavilion DV6305US $499 after rebate. AMD dual core, 512 ram, 80gb HD, 15.4" screen, DVD/RW, wireless-G & Vista Basic. Upgrade the RAM for $70, total is $570. 2gb dual-core laptop dual booting Ubuntu and Vista - Whoop! Not bad eh?

Also look for the Dell coupons - never buy a Dell without a coupon. Every couple weeks is a new deal.

I hope this helps. You'll have to do some work to upgrade, send in rebates, etc. but it can be done.

Greg

SoulinEther
July 1st, 2007, 06:25 AM
Nice guide, except for the 512k RAM part. I think they stopped selling laptops with that little memory a few decades ago. :P

Not much of a big HP fan, but you can customize this laptop to include a dual-core processor for $504.99.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=From+price&v1=Under+%24500&series_name=C500T_series&a1=From+price&v1=Under+%24500

It still has microsoft windows on it, though. And it's probably better to get a Dell, though I heard HP is doing better than Dell this year, or something.

It doesn't have 64-bit technology, but... it's not like I care for it myself.

Just giving you the heads up.

argie
July 1st, 2007, 08:24 AM
If I recall correctly, you can get a refund for your Windows licence if you particularly don't use it. The EULA allows it. There was this article a long time ago about how one guy did it (with XP). I'm not sure about Vista. You may well be able to get atleast $50 back from such a trick.

Feba
July 1st, 2007, 11:32 AM
If I recall correctly, you can get a refund for your Windows licence if you particularly don't use it. The EULA allows it. There was this article a long time ago about how one guy did it (with XP). I'm not sure about Vista. You may well be able to get atleast $50 back from such a trick.
Now *that* is useful. I'm going to have to google that. Given the price of Vista, that could cut quite a bit off the price tag of a laptop. How much cheaper are dell's ubuntu machines, 70$?

kiddo
July 1st, 2007, 02:44 PM
Just for your information, I did this:
- go in a retail computer store (Futureshop in my case)
- play with the ubuntu live CD on the cheapest laptops hanging around, see if it works well
- at the same time, it kind of does propaganda/shows any sales clerk (that has a clue) that demand for Linux exists


I bought an Acer Travelmate 2428WXCI (2420 series). This came with 256mb of ram, which I boosted to 768 (by buying 512mb of ram myself). It was the cheapest laptop I could find in Canada, it cost 600 CAD (~570 USD). I have no idea how you can find laptops at 300-400$ O_o

Anyway, the important part I wanted to mention: this laptop absolutely rocks for usage with ubuntu. It has the Intel "centrino" sticker on it, which means everything is Intel inside the machine. Now, why do you care? Because intel is very friendly with FOSS. The graphics/wireless drivers, assuming they use an intel chip (which is the case in 99% of centrinos), are open source and work out of the box.

I just booted gutsy gibbon tribe 2 this morning, and compiz fusion started up automatically in all its glory. It feels good to have hardware that needs absolutely no proprietary drivers.

Also, the CPU is an Intel Pentium M, which is very good for power management and performance. A few geeks out there will cry and say "WTF! Buy the latest and newest! Buy a Core Trio or something!"
I can assure you, you don't care about the CPU as long as it manages its power/heat well (hint: the celerons can't do that, they don't have frequency scaling).

Anyway, I think Pentium Ms don't exist anymore nowadays, they must all have been replaced by Core Solos I guess.

darkog
July 1st, 2007, 04:57 PM
Have you ever tried using froogle.com?

Anyways, why are you such a cheap skate? Don't you want a laptop to last you at least a few years? At the rate computing hardware is moving along -- if you buy a junky clearance laptop that's in the $400-$500 range -- it's gonna be good for a frizbee within a year or so.

It's $599 for the lowest end Dell Inspiron notebook. With it, you get a half decent hardware conig -- you just need to add some RAM and perhaps a bigger drive down the road -- and you should get 3 to 5 years life out of it if you take care of it. Plus the OS comes pre-installed for you, and the bigger plus is, you are actually supporting Ubuntu with your purchase.

I bet if you wait a month or so, you can get a better deal during the back to school promo's.




E1505N $599

Inspiron E1505:
IntelŪ PentiumŪ dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB KLP17HN [223-0459] 1
Operating System:
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04 LINXUX [420-7153] 11
LCD Panel:
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife™(glossy) 15XGAS [320-4651] 2
Memory:
512MB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 DIMM 512M2D [311-7349] 3
Hard Drive:
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive 80GB [341-3108] 8
CD ROM/DVD ROM:
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive 24LCOMB [313-3958] 16
Video Card:
IntelŪ Graphics Media Accelerator 950 INTLVID [320-5630] 6
Sound Options:
Integrated Audio IS [313-4217] 17
Processor Branding:
Intel Pentium Dual Core Label ID3CNB [310-8756] 749
Primary Battery:
53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery 6BAT [312-0404] 27
Wireless Networking Cards:
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g IP3945 [430-1918] 19
Warranty and Service:
1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service ST111RR [950-3337][950-9057][960-2780][980-2860][985-3578] 29
Print

kiddo
July 1st, 2007, 07:43 PM
Have you ever tried using froogle.com?
http://www.google.com/products?as_q=allintitle%3A+laptop&num=100&scoring=p&btnG=Search+Products&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=intitle%3Abattery+intitle%3Adrive+intitle%3A ebay+intitle%3Acase&price1=300.00&price2=800&as_occt=any&cat=0&show=dd&safe=active
Riiiiight :) lots of junk, lots of refurbished, lots of parts, and anyway, I am canadian so I would need to double the price of most stuff there because I need to add shipping, UPS breaking the package, and custom fees. Better off buying from a retail store. I've been bitten enough that I know that eBay and friends are NOT to be considered except maybe if you live in the USA.


Anyways, why are you such a cheap skate? Don't you want a laptop to last you at least a few years? At the rate computing hardware is moving along -- if you buy a junky clearance laptop that's in the $400-$500 range -- it's gonna be good for a frizbee within a year or so.

:) Are you kidding me? The lowest end computers nowadays are ten thousand times the power that was needed to (supposedly) send men to the Moon!
The 2 years-hardware-upgrade cycle almost made sense 5-10 years ago. It does not make sense nowadays.
You know why? First because the market has matured so much (remember the CPU megahertz wars? well Intel figured out there is no point in counting megahertz anymore....hmm! I wonder why), and second, because I am not running Windows anymore. I have 768-1024 mb of ram on my machines, and I know I will never have to upgrade that for, oh, maybe the next ten years. Mainly, I have confidence that Free and Open Source Software is more often than not created for the "art of coding" and by geeks who do not want to waste CPU cycles. They are the ones who will spend some time making sure that it runs fast enough even on a Pentium II. There is no big corporation trying to ramp up hardware sales here.

I don't need all that power. CPU power is useless unless you are grepping through log files of 2 GB in size/doing professional video editing/gaming*. My belief is that the limiting factors nowadays are:

quantity of RAM. Above 512 mB and you will be "comfortable". Of course not if you are on Vista ;)
hard drive speed
video card performance (if you are a gamer that is; I am just a student that does not have much time for them). I mean, an integrated intel chipset is perfectly fine for me as it runs compiz, enough for a "nice desktop experience" (of course I can't run Doom 3 on it).

* your mileage may vary, of course. I'm certainly not a very demanding computer user, but I do like the feeling of having software optimized for my hardware.



So, I'm not angry or anything, I just thought your reply was funny. Am I the only crazy dude around here who thinks that upgrading computers/high end purchases are useless in 2007 and beyond? Especially when you look at the fact that every Windows release gets more bloated, and the past three GNOME releases have been about optimizing performance to get the most out of your current hardware?

Oh, and just in case you might be wondering, I'm about 20 years old now, not even a 50 years old moaner "in my time we had Ataris running on olive oil" (yet) ^_^


Oh, some stats while I'm at it:

my desktop has an old (technologically) 2.4ghz pentium 4B CPU, with 1 gB of DDR (not DDR2) RAM and the cheapest nvidia card around (about 40$, a geforce 5200). I had this computer since 2003 or so, and I'm still using it right now to type this message and hack on Specto :p
my laptop is has 1.8ghz (downclocked to 600mhz to save power), 768mb of ram, and an intel i915 graphics chipset. It has 40gb of HDD space. I bought it in october 2006 and don't feel like it will become a freezbee anytime soon :)


EDIT: typos

darkog
July 1st, 2007, 08:50 PM
I have 768-1024 mb of ram on my machines, and I know I will never have to upgrade that for, oh, maybe the next ten years.

.....

So, I'm not angry or anything, I just thought your reply was funny. Am I the only crazy dude around here who thinks that upgrading computers/high end purchases are useless in 2007 and beyond?
........


Yeah, well, I have been around a little longer -- and I remember when HD's broke the 1 gig barrier. And I remember chanting with everyone else, "What the hell is someone going to do with 1 gig of space in their home computer!!!". Now, I just copied over 200 gig's of video files from my mythtv machine to my burner machine.

My point is, as the hardware gets faster & more powerful, new things will come around to take advantage of it.

Feba
July 2nd, 2007, 12:13 AM
Don't you want a laptop to last you at least a few years? At the rate computing hardware is moving along -- if you buy a junky clearance laptop that's in the $400-$500 range -- it's gonna be good for a frizbee within a year or so.

huh. Mind telling me why a low end PC I have is still functioning perfectly 7 years later?

I am not running Windows anymore. I have 768-1024 mb of ram on my machines, and I know I will never have to upgrade that for, oh, maybe the next ten years.
Thank you. Have you people ever heard of something called NOT ALWAYS USING THE LATEST OS THERE IS? Look at DeLi linux, you could still actually use a 486 as an everyday computing device, which is really all I need, I just want something with integrated wifi and better battery life honestly.



My point is, as the hardware gets faster & more powerful, new things will come around to take advantage of it.So don't use them. That freaking simple.


Now, I just copied over 200 gig's of video files from my mythtv machine to my burner machine. Again, I don't intend to use this to hold a bunch of crap. I have a computer with a 500GB Seagate, I don't need to hold a bunch of crap on my laptop.


My desktop has an old (technologically) 2.4ghz pentium 4B CPU, with 1 gB of DDR (not DDR2) RAM and the cheapest nvidia card around (about 40$, a geforce 5200). I had this computer since 2003 or so, and I'm still using it right now to type this message and hack on SpectoMine is a 2.4GHz P4, 512MB, 6200LE (That's an upgrade, it was originally an MX440- and it still runs fine. Only reason I got a new PC was for games.


it's gonna be good for a frizbee within a year or so.
In the future, don't assume how I plan to use my computer. I asked a very simple task- Linux computers under 400$. If you don't know any, THAT'S FINE, move along. Just because you're so obsessed with the Windows way of thinking (Upgrade everything every three years at least to keep up with our Software), doesn't mean I am. Two years ago, I used a computer that had been made three years before myself. Somehow, it managed to run Windows 95. And you know what? It was slow as molasses, because it was running something far beyond it's time. But it still worked. for listening to CDs and writing things, which is what I had it for. It was still a usable machine. If I knew then what I know now I would've tried to install some form of CLInux on it.

I've seen plenty of laptops out there running 98SE and ME that I could easily use, if they had integrated wifi and better battery life. Just because something might not meet YOUR requirements doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly capable system.

As to the rest of the thread, I'm back to considering a Nokia N800. Still supports linux, and I think I'd get more use out of it.

darkog
July 2nd, 2007, 05:19 AM
If you don't know any, THAT'S FINE, move along.

Feba, you posted a question on a public forum asking for people to give you a shortcut to where you can buy a cheap laptop.

You also posed this on a Ubuntu public forum.


As much as I hate to support MS by buying a computer that comes with Vista, it doesn't look like i'm going to have much of a choice in this, so does anyone know of cheap, decent, linux laptops?

I gave you an alternative which not only costs slightly more than your budget but also supports and furthers the Ubuntu distro and does not support a M$ operating system. It's a perfectly valid response.

Based on what I have read of your responses on this thread to others (I won't bother to waste my time reading anything else you might have posted anywhere else), you seem to take a very negative, defensive and derogatory attitude towards anyone who's responses you don't like. Thats a very, very poor show, young man!

Spr0k3t
July 2nd, 2007, 08:02 AM
Hey Feba... coming from someone who has tried to avoid the MS tax before... it's not an easy one. Some companies will not allow it, some want to charge for it, and some will flat out refuse to sell you a computer citing technical support issues. Getting into the sub $400 laptop is not easy... that's for sure. However, you may be able to go with the refurbished systems which will get you closer to your target. You may want to check out Geeks.com to see what they have to offer. I haven't been able to find a laptop under your target with Linux though.

Good luck!

Feba
July 2nd, 2007, 11:45 AM
you posted a question on a public forum asking for people to give you a shortcut to where you can buy a cheap laptop.
Exactly. Where in there do you see "I want advice on what computer will last longest" or "Give me your opinion about computer longevity!"?!


I gave you an alternative which not only costs slightly more than your budget but also supports and furthers the Ubuntu distro and does not support a M$ operating system. It's a perfectly valid response.
Slightly more? 200$ is half the cost of the fscking system.


I have no interest at all in anything that costs more than 400$.

That simple.

Warpnow
July 2nd, 2007, 12:32 PM
stop being an *******. At this point if I saw a linux laptop for sell I probably wouldn't post it here.

Feba
July 2nd, 2007, 02:02 PM
If people don't have anything to say that falls under the topic, they can go somewhere else.

Warpnow
July 2nd, 2007, 05:49 PM
No one's going to want to help you even if they have something to say with the way you're acting.

darkog
July 2nd, 2007, 06:01 PM
Contrary to earlier postings, I don't think he is going to have much trouble getting one of these (http://www.laptop.org/). Will probably scare them into giving him two.

Syke
July 2nd, 2007, 07:44 PM
Due out in a couple months is the Asus EeePC. http://event.asus.com/eeepc/ Half the price of the N800, and appears to be much more usable.

Bannor
July 2nd, 2007, 10:00 PM
this is off post but on theme.

I have to disagree to with everyone that says this computer is crap or that computer is better.

It has been my experience that the innards of computers are mostly the same from brand to brand. Intel or amd processor one of 5-6 kinds of ram and a motherboard or video card made by ati or nvidia. Everything else is just a box. In the Microsoft world you might look at things like available programs and support. With Linux it makes little difference so i would say go to ebay and find something used for less than 200. I would find a Pentium 1000 or amd equivalent and try to find 500 MB of ram

done and done.

DR_K13
July 2nd, 2007, 10:29 PM
Cheap huh? I got 2 free laptops from friends this month who have upgraded because of Broken window installs.
Both are P3, one is 500mhz the other is 800mhz. I have Xbuntu one and Fluxbox on the other. No Disco eye-candy ******** for me.

Look on craigslist.

macogw
July 3rd, 2007, 01:43 AM
Going OT because I just have to point this out:

There's nothing wrong with sweatshops. Why would someone in a developing world country work in a sweatshop under a foreign company? Because the sweatshop offers better pay (and maybe work conditions) than local companies.

Effect: Higher wages = higher standard of living.

I hate it when people talk about sweatshops like it was the plague. If your conscience tells you not to buy products from manufacturers employing people in sweatshops then think again. Not buying will cause these people to be out of jobs forcing them to go back to their original jobs which was less payed and had lower working conditions.

There is nothing wrong with sweatshops.

Regardless of what you think of the wages sweatshop workers are paid, that's still outsourcing and still leaves less jobs for the people living in the countries where the companies are. I rather doubt the people working at $manufacturer like being told "you're all being laid off so we can hire cheap foreign labor."

macogw
July 3rd, 2007, 01:47 AM
Now *that* is useful. I'm going to have to google that. Given the price of Vista, that could cut quite a bit off the price tag of a laptop. How much cheaper are dell's ubuntu machines, 70$?

Better off if it has XP. I haven't checked (don't have a copy of Vista to do so), but I've heard that Vista's EULA doesn't allow it like XP's did. Dell's the only company I've ever heard of to make good on that refund though. The rest say "GOTO Microsoft" and then Microsoft says "GOTO OEM" and it goes around and around and you never get the money.

jacob01
July 6th, 2007, 02:26 AM
if you want a desktop you could try dells open source n series desktops and laptops i thing the laptops start a 5xx and iv seen there desktops around $370 i got mine for 400

core 2 duo 1.8 2 meg l2 800mhz fsb
1 gig 667 ram
intel gma somthing
250 gig hdd
ubuntu 7.04

pretty good deal for 400 i thought but then they started the insperon desktops so i don't know

kamaboko
July 6th, 2007, 02:37 AM
Going OT because I just have to point this out:

There's nothing wrong with sweatshops. Why would someone in a developing world country work in a sweatshop under a foreign company? Because the sweatshop offers better pay (and maybe work conditions) than local companies.

Effect: Higher wages = higher standard of living.

I hate it when people talk about sweatshops like it was the plague. If your conscience tells you not to buy products from manufacturers employing people in sweatshops then think again. Not buying will cause these people to be out of jobs forcing them to go back to their original jobs which was less payed and had lower working conditions.

There is nothing wrong with sweatshops.

It's quite apparent that you have never seen a sweat shop up close and personal. I've lived near a few of them in Asia, and I can tell you with certainty they are not fun places to be. Many of these workers are forced and/or coerced to be there. Believe me, they'd rather be working at McDonalds.

stmiller
July 6th, 2007, 02:42 AM
iBook G4s can be found for $400. I got a G4 Powerbook for $200 because it had a bad CD drive (I replaced the drive, and is good as new! Running Feisty.)

Or if you don't want PowerPC, Thinkpads are excellent Linux laptops, and available used all over the place.

It is possible to find a good laptop for cheap if you are willing to hunt, and take something used.

illu45
July 6th, 2007, 03:12 AM
If you check eBay and Craigslist you could probably find a laptop that will run Ubuntu (or Xubuntu/Fluxbuntu) for $100-$200.

Feba
July 6th, 2007, 03:49 AM
I thought I made it clear that I didn't want to buy something that already had windows on it, or that was used.

Either way, I think I decided on an N800, so you can all stop worrying.

Warpnow
July 6th, 2007, 05:11 AM
uhh...this N800? http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/nokia-n800-hands-on/

Not at all what you seem to be asking for...

Feba
July 6th, 2007, 05:46 AM
uhhuh. Your point? I asked for something here, it doesn't exist, I'm going with something else I was interested in.

Warpnow
July 6th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Its just amusing that you came to the conclusion you bitched at everyone here for pointing out, then after saying over and over what you're not interrested in, you pick something other than what you ask about. ;)

darkog
July 6th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I took some time to look at both products. The http://www.eeepc.net/ and http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/index.html. I am in shock!!

#1 - How can you call them or even compare them to a "notebook" or "laptop"?

#2 - I don't get how do you assign value to a computing device? Are you just looking at the "$200" price tag and saying, "Ahh.. ,well that's a good deal because it's only $200!!". That's how my dad shops. He will buy anything at the Dollar store just because it costs $1, even if it's $1 junk that goes in the garbage after a week? He just buys it 'cause it's a buck!!

Are you even looking at what is inside that device and what you actually get for that $200? Last time I checked, there is a huge difference between a 7" vs 15" screen. A huge difference between 15gb's vs 80gb's. Also, "Nokia Internet Tablet OS" does not sound like FOSS ;-)

What you are looking to purchase, my friend, is not a "laptop" but a "novelty item". About 5 or 6 years ago, I purchased 2 items. A laptop, IBM Thinkpad, and a novelty item, a Revo/Mako. They are both computing devices that can be used to check email and ever browse the web. The laptop is still working and being used -- running FreeBSD. The Mako is this weird little gadget that sits in a drawer somewhere -- no support for it, no new development on it, no new nothing for it. Guess which one was money well spent?

Feba, quite frankly, I don't see the point of you starting this thread? Support FOSS & Ubuntu!!

H/W specs for the eeepc.


Display:7″
CPU & Chipset: Intel mobile CPU & chipset
OS: Linux/ Microsoft Windows XP compatible
Communication: 10/100 Mbps Ethernet; 56K modem
WLAN: WiFi 802.11b/g
Graphic: Intel UMA
Memory: 512MB, DDR2-400
Storage: 4/ 8/ 16GB Flash
Webcam: 300K pixel video camera
Audio: Hi-Definition Audio CODEC; Built-in stereo speaker; Built-in microphone
Battery Life: 3hrs (4 cells: 5200mAh, 2S2P)
Dimension & Weight: 22.5 x 16.5 x 2.1~3.5cm, 0.89kg


no idea about the n800.

h/w specs for the lowest end Dell Ubuntu.

Inspiron E1505:
IntelŪ PentiumŪ dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Operating System: Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
LCD Panel: 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife™(glossy)
Memory: 512MB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 DIMM
Hard Drive: 80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive 80GB
CD ROM/DVD ROM: 24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
Video Card: IntelŪ Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Sound Options: Integrated Audio
Processor Branding: Intel Pentium Dual Core Label
Primary Battery: 53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Wireless Networking Cards: Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g

kamaboko
July 6th, 2007, 01:10 PM
A typical case of "I don't know what I'm looking for, but I'll know it when I see it".

Feba
July 6th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Its just amusing that you came to the conclusion you bitched at everyone here for pointing out, then after saying over and over what you're not interrested in, you pick something other than what you ask about.


A typical case of "I don't know what I'm looking for, but I'll know it when I see it".

Wrong. I knew exactly what I was looking for, but it doesn't seem to exist, so I'm going with the next best thing. I don't see how this is surprising, considering it's In the first damn post. Thanks for proving my point about people not reading, though.


#1 - How can you call them or even compare them to a "notebook" or "laptop"?I'm not. But, the N800 does what I want of it, and it has it's upsides, so I will probably buy that.


#2 - I don't get how do you assign value to a computing device? Are you just looking at the "$200" price tag and saying, "Ahh.. ,well that's a good deal because it's only $200!!". That's how my dad shops. He will buy anything at the Dollar store just because it costs $1, even if it's $1 junk that goes in the garbage after a week? He just buys it 'cause it's a buck!!wrong. I need some form of portable computing device. It was a debate between the N800 and a Laptop from the start (of this thread, too), and I decided to go with the N800


Are you even looking at what is inside that device and what you actually get for that $200? Last time I checked, there is a huge difference between a 7" vs 15" screen. A huge difference between 15gb's vs 80gb's. Also, "Nokia Internet Tablet OS" does not sound like FOSS Of course I do, I seem to be one of the few people in this thread that pay attention. It's 400$, I don't need a ton of space, and Internet Tablet OS (2007) is based on Debian.



Feba, quite frankly, I don't see the point of you starting this thread? Support FOSS & Ubuntu!!
OK, so me buying a decide that comes with a Debian variant PREINSTALLED isn't supporting FOSS and Ubuntu, but buying something that comes with MICROSOFT WINDOWS does?

kamaboko
July 6th, 2007, 06:10 PM
Wrong. I knew exactly what I was looking for, but it doesn't seem to exist, so I'm going with the next best thing. I don't see how this is surprising, considering it's In the first damn post. Thanks for proving my point about people not reading, though.


Wrong. If you knew what you were looking for, you wouldn't have bothered with the initial post.

Feba
July 6th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Ok, so you happen to know of something that meets my exact requirements, which I made very clear, but you're just not posting it for the sake of what?

I was looking for a computer that came with linux preinstalled, under 400$, new. NOBODY posted that, so I'm going with something else I had been considering anyway. Reading the first post would've told you that.

darkog
July 6th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Wrong. I knew exactly what I was looking for, but it doesn't seem to exist, so I'm going with the next best thing. I don't see how this is surprising, considering it's In the first damn post. ....

Wrong. The title of your thread says "laptops". You are also comparing a $400 little nokia gadget with a full featured $600 Dell laptop. You are also attacking everyone who is recommending laptops and not recommending gadgets in or below your price range. If you had emphisized that you are looking to buy a gadget, perhaps someone might have recommended a Sharp Zaurus (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=m3B&q=sharp+zaurus+linux&btnG=Search&meta=). It's ever less expensive. Runs Linux. It's even more portable than the Nokia e.t.c...



OK, so me buying a decide that comes with a Debian variant PREINSTALLED isn't supporting FOSS and Ubuntu, but buying something that comes with MICROSOFT WINDOWS does?

Wrong. The Dell laptop comes with Ubuntu pre-installed. You would be supporting Ubuntu.

:popcorn:

illu45
July 6th, 2007, 07:17 PM
This is becoming a silly flamewar. Feba found something that he (or she) is happy with, so I think the thread has served its purpose. Feba, I'm glad that you found a computing device for yourself. Might I suggest, however, that in future you be a little kinder to those whose help you request. Also, please don't assume that the people trying to help you are dumb/stupid/don't read/etc, even if this is the Internet ;)

Feba
July 6th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Wrong. The title of your thread says "laptops".

Ok, let me put this in big letters even someone as thick as yourself can get.

I WANTED A LAPTOP THAT COMES PREINSTALLED WITH LINUX THAT WAS UNDER 400$ AND NEW. THEY DO NOT EXIST, ACCORDING TO THE REPLIES IN THIS THREAD. I WENT WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I KNEW WHAT THE HELL I WANTED AND MADE IS EXTREMELY CLEAR. IT IS NOT MY FAULT THEY ARE NOT MANUFACTURED. I DECIDED TO GO WITH SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD.

Do you understand yet? I was NOT looking for a gadget. I was looking for a laptop. Full stop. Nobody had a laptop with the requirements I wanted. Full stop. I decided to buy something else instead.

I'm not saying the N800 is a laptop, I'm saying there ARE NO LAPTOPS THAT MEET MY REQUIREMENTS, so I'm going with the N800 instead.


Wrong. The Dell laptop comes with Ubuntu pre-installed. You would be supporting Ubuntu.

Wow, are you ******* braindead? I've only said about a dozen times now that I AM NOT SPENDING MORE THAN 400$ ON A LAPTOP. The Dell laptop is 600 dollars. Simple math shows us that is 200 dollars more expensive than I said I was willing to spend, thus is DOES NOT MEET MY REQUIREMENTS.

If you have nothing left to do but point out your own ignorance and illiteracy, go elsewhere. This thread is over, unless someone DOES know of a new linux laptop under 400$, there is nothing left to comment on.

PriceChild
July 6th, 2007, 10:52 PM
This thread is over,Feba feel free to PM me to request the reopening of this thread... I'm not going to be holding my breath though ;)