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DC@DR
June 26th, 2007, 04:45 PM
Check this out, kinda interesting to know: https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2007-February/001127.html

zero244
June 26th, 2007, 04:55 PM
That is very interesting, Ive never seen that before.
The post was in Febuary.
I agree the mouse features in Gnome are pathetic. Changing Theme features in Gnome is very limited as well.
It would be nice if they would up a few features in Gnome, but overall I like Gnome and will continue to use it.

tageiru
June 26th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Linus is a windbag.

PartisanEntity
June 26th, 2007, 05:03 PM
It has been posted here before, and while I am a Gnome user myself I agree with Linus, add the ability to configure as much as possible, you don't have to make it the standard option that users face, but please put it in there and allow the power users to find it and use it through some GUI.

One thing I still am waiting for in Gnome is different wallpapers for multiple monitor set up.

DeadSuperHero
June 26th, 2007, 05:23 PM
I dunno, I find GNOME pretty customizable and functional.
It's always funny though, Linus seems to be a very angry man sometimes.
On the other hand, he never talked about his actual experiences with GNOME, just that he wrote fixes for it, and what "crap".

bailout
June 26th, 2007, 05:30 PM
I did see references a while ago that gnome had got a lot of its funding from corporations (IBM might have been one) who wanted a desktop suitable for corporate environments. Hence the emphasis on simplicity and the lack of options doesn't matter as corporate users wouldn't be allowed control over the desktop anyway. Whereas kde has always been aimed more at the enthusiast/geek market and hence has an option for virtually everything, if you can find it.

I use kde for the apps and can't get that excited about any de in itself but I did find gnome a bit too simplistic. I prefer being able to configure things how I want rather than having things set by the developer and just having to accept their decisions. Of course configurability has to be made easy to be of use to most people. Opera is really easy to set many aspecs of the ui whereas Konqueror can be a pain.

vexorian
June 26th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Linus is a flamebait, gnome is all right

Lord Illidan
June 26th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Linus is a windbag.

When you've done as much for Linux as he has done, feel free to comment on him. Until then, kindly put up or shut up.

I'm with Linus on this one. Not only has he done his criticising, but he has also done some coding. IMHO, that's a good move.

vexorian
June 26th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Hey, he is a great kernel maker and so and so we all love him for that, but he is also pretty bad at this kind of things. This time he is being a flamebait. I have read the message and it is not "just criticizing". Good that he made code but the way he is making the post is not all right.

use a name
June 26th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Hey, he is a great kernel maker and so and so we all love him for that, but he is also pretty bad at this kind of things. This time he is being a flamebait. I have read the message and it is not "just criticizing". Good that he made code but the way he is making the post is not all right.
I was thinking the same indeed. Even if it is true what he says, a little more tact would never hurt.

On the other hand: he didn't say 'konfigure'. That would be real bad...

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 07:02 PM
When you've done as much for Linux as he has done, feel free to comment on him. Until then, kindly put up or shut up.

linus hasn't done anything except for the kernel. when the topic concerns kde and gnome, he is way out of his depth. tageiru has as much right to comment on linus talking about gnome/kde as anyone.

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Linus is a flamebait, gnome is all right

He's not flame baiting. Just because he's sawing something you don't like doesn't mean he's flame baiting and that everyone should dismiss him.

Lord Illidan
June 26th, 2007, 07:14 PM
linus hasn't done anything except for the kernel. when the topic concerns kde and gnome, he is way out of his depth. tageiru has as much right to comment on linus talking about gnome/kde as anyone.

But in this case, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Tageiru?

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 07:20 PM
linus hasn't done anything except for the kernel. when the topic concerns kde and gnome, he is way out of his depth. tageiru has as much right to comment on linus talking about gnome/kde as anyone.

Is he retarded?

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 07:21 PM
But in this case, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Tageiru?
tageiru is the person you were responding to.

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 07:25 PM
tageiru is the person you were responding to.

wow

use a name
June 26th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I sense a BBQ here. Should I get the meat?

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Is he retarded?
linus? in some respects, it seems.

JohnOfSheffield
June 26th, 2007, 08:05 PM
linus? in some respects, it seems.

Yup, he doesn't like Gnome exactly as it is and contributes code that not only adds valuable functions but also cleans up messy code, naturally he's retarded since he doesn't adore Gnome without wanting it to improve.

You know, you are the perfect example of the user he's talking about.

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 08:05 PM
linus? in some respects, it seems.

](*,)

DC@DR
June 26th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Go easy on it, dudes! I like Linus, and am grateful for what he has contributed to FOSS community in general. The way he talks sometimes could make people think he's rude or flamebait, blah blah...But I just think that's simply part of his character, and I don't see any problem with it! If he's such a bad guy, how the hell he could gather thousands of hackers/developers around him to work on the kernel? He's still GREAT and special, IMO.

christhemonkey
June 26th, 2007, 08:08 PM
I must agree with JohnOfSheffield.
(apart from the personal thing about ComplexNumber)

If only because he's from Sheffield :)

JohnOfSheffield
June 26th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Let me translate for you ComplexNumber.

"But in this case, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Tageiru?"

Translates into:

"But in this case, Linus contributes code and fixes what he doesn't like, cleans up others messy code and helps others, what has Tageiru done?"

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I just think that's simply part of his character, and I don't see any problem with it!
Exactly

JohnOfSheffield
June 26th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I must agree with JohnOfSheffield.
(apart from the personal thing about ComplexNumber)

If only because he's from Sheffield :)

Well, read the thread, it's the "Gnome only forever" - defensive people like ComplexNumber he is talking about in his rant.

This summer, i wish i WASN'T from Sheffield. :( ;)

JohnOfSheffield
June 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM
Exactly

Besides, most people are not pussyfooting around on usenet, the language is harsher but more things get done.

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 08:31 PM
Let me translate for you ComplexNumber.

"But in this case, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Tageiru?"

Translates into:

"But in this case, Linus contributes code and fixes what he doesn't like, cleans up others messy code and helps others, what has Tageiru done?"
vague questions gets vague replies.

blah blah blah
June 26th, 2007, 08:33 PM
then he needs to improve his english. vague questions gets vague replies.

That wasn't vague.

PartisanEntity
June 26th, 2007, 08:39 PM
How on earth do some of you people manage to turn this thread into near flamewar levels? Go out more man! :)

forrestcupp
June 26th, 2007, 09:10 PM
Linus is one of the nicest people I know. Just look at his innocent face in those interview videos.

Lord Illidan
June 26th, 2007, 09:12 PM
Lol at the flamewar..!

Polygon
June 26th, 2007, 09:19 PM
im pretty sure linus is a smart guy, and knows whats he is talking about.

and not to mention what he wanted in gnome that isnt there seems reasonable, not to mention that he took the time to fix the code, so i would be grateful that he did that but im not a gnome dev...

JohnOfSheffield
June 26th, 2007, 09:27 PM
How on earth do some of you people manage to turn this thread into near flamewar levels? Go out more man! :)

Heh, DE wars aside, calling Linus retarded while being unable to understand a simple post on a forum is the highest level of irony. :D

DigitalDuality
June 26th, 2007, 09:32 PM
d

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 09:32 PM
Heh, DE wars aside, calling Linus retarded while being unable to understand a simple post on a forum is the highest level of irony. :D
of course.

matthew
June 26th, 2007, 10:24 PM
I would like to politely suggest some time to cool off. I'm also going to recommend clicking the "what's a troll" link in my sig for some interesting reading.

Note: we don't take kindly to anyone berating, insulting, or demeaning others around here. Please stop and don't start again. If you enjoy that sort of thing, go to usenet where it was invented, perfected, and still exists today.

PatrickMay16
June 26th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Linus is a windbag.

Windbag or not, there are many stupid limitations in gnome.
Like having to use the stupid hidden 'gconf-editor' to find options which are kept secret, which should actually be in the main configuration dialogues. Like the position of the minimize/maximise/close/menu buttons on the window titlebar, or what double clicking on the titlebar does. There is an option to change that in the 'window' menu accessible from the gnome panel menu, but it doesn't allow the option of 'minimise'. You have to open gconf-editor for that.

Don't kid yourself, Linus is right and it's pretty obvious.

EDIT: WTF! Why is John of Sheffield banned? He didn't do anything incredibly wrong. Or is it now against the rules to disagree with someone from the admin team?

matthew
June 26th, 2007, 10:47 PM
Windbag or not, there are many stupid limitations in gnome.
Like having to use the stupid hidden 'gconf-editor' to find options which are kept secret, which should actually be in the main configuration dialogues. Like the position of the minimize/maximise/close/menu buttons on the window titlebar, or what double clicking on the titlebar does. There is an option to change that in the 'window' menu accessible from the gnome panel menu, but it doesn't allow the option of 'minimise'. You have to open gconf-editor for that.

Don't kid yourself, Linus is right and it's pretty obvious.I agree with Linus's comments for the most part. I might have been a bit more diplomatic, but that's mainly a personality difference. Linus tends to be pretty direct (as to most Northern Europeans, in my experience). I still use Gnome most of the time, but I also know how to dig in and customize it.

BigSilly
June 26th, 2007, 10:54 PM
Heh, DE wars aside, calling Linus retarded while being unable to understand a simple post on a forum is the highest level of irony. :D

/Spots another Sheffielder

Sorry to raid your thread, but I'm from Sheffield too! Have you had a rough time with the recent events, or did you escape intact? Whereabouts are you?

ComplexNumber
June 26th, 2007, 10:55 PM
well, i don't think linus has any more say or any more wisdom over UI design any more than anyone else.

matthew
June 26th, 2007, 11:00 PM
EDIT: WTF! Why is John of Sheffield banned? He didn't do anything incredibly wrong. Or is it now against the rules to disagree with someone from the admin team?He wasn't banned for his behavior in this thread, but for specific PMs received by staff. Anyone is welcome to have opinions differing from those held by staff.

(Sorry for the brief thread hijack...back to the discussion of Linus and his comments on Gnome.)

lancest
June 26th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Nothing wrong with Gnome- its making Ubuntu popular. Clean and simple, the perfect anti-Windows. KDE has a great future also but not my preference.

gvoima
June 26th, 2007, 11:19 PM
as to most Northern Europeans
You hit the nail on the head, they have a tendency to speak their minds :)

What comes to Linus, i agree with him. Even if gnome is configurable, sometimes the means of doing something is obscurely presented or not at all.
But still I use gnome and in a odd way like it as it is.

Andrewie
June 27th, 2007, 12:19 AM
saddest flame-war I've ever seen, and I'm pretty big on flame-wars :p. Its time to grow up, there is problems with KDE and problems with Gnome. If you can't accept that there is no hope for you.

~Saddened KDE fan-boy

tbroderick
June 27th, 2007, 01:45 AM
well, i don't think linus has any more say or any more wisdom over UI design any more than anyone else.

I find that hard to believe. After all, this thread and a lot of other threads around the Linux community were sparked by Linus's comments. I've read lots of criticism of GNOME and none have generated this much attention. Obviously, when Linus speaks, people take notice. They might not agree with him, but they do listen to what he has to say. Linus carries a gravitas that very few members of the Linux community can match. Yours, mine or Tageiru's opinions on anything Linux related will never be given the same weight as Linus's. Sorry.

ComplexNumber
June 27th, 2007, 01:57 AM
I find that hard to believe. After all, this thread and a lot of other threads around the Linux community were sparked by Linus's comments. I've read lots of criticism of GNOME and none have generated this much attention. Obviously, when Linus speaks, people take notice. They might not agree with him, but they do listen to what he has to say. Linus carries a gravitas that very few members of the Linux community can match. Yours, mine or Tageiru's opinions on anything Linux related will never be given the same weight as Linus's. Sorry.
it may well be so about his gravitas, but it doesn't make it right that he should have more weight than he should in matters that don't really concern him.
it's akin to the chief engineer of the engine having a say in the aesthetics of a car just because he's an outspoken big mouth.

jrusso2
June 27th, 2007, 02:33 AM
I met Linus about 9 years ago. He is a very nice guy and very funny. I think he just got his hackles up because he is getting jumped on so much because he doesn't like to use gnome.

He has a right to his opinion just like any of us. Personally I started using Linux before there was gnome and we were happy to have KDE.

I was even happier when it started being included in distros and to this day I cannot get used to using Gnome because it just does not work the way I like.

Linus made some code so he can use the right click better. So what, will they include his code? We shall see.

forrestcupp
June 27th, 2007, 05:01 AM
Linus made some code so he can use the right click better. So what, will they include his code? We shall see.

Probably not. Making someone feel inferior isn't a good way to get them to want to accept your help. They should use the code, if it's truly worthy, but I doubt if they will.

Aside from Linus acting like a horse's behind, he probably is right that the Gnome people aren't willing to admit there is anything wrong with their setup.

Do you think Linus and the Subway guy are brothers?