Is anyone actually scared by the Microsoft patent situation?

[Old Pink]

Hi there,

Just wondering, is anyone actually scared by Microsoft's latest FUD session, with the patents against Linux?

I personally am not in the least bit concerned.

Matt :)

[Old Pink]

I personally suggest the reading of, these two articles:
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/127
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/57261/index.html

[zero244]

Well I personally get a little nervous when a company the size of MS is talking legal action against the OS I use.
Whether anything develops from the Claims floating around the net.......its not something that is constructive for Linux or Linux development.

[bchaffin72]

I am not concerned by it.

[i0Null]

Even if they do anything, there never going to be able to stop Linux. And they'll get extremely bad PR.

[gnomeuser]

Not the least bit scared... outside the fact that it is scary that you can shake down people for protection money like that these days legally.

[juxtaposed]

Not in the slightest.

[Warpnow]

Not scares for myself, just for the linux releases.

They won't actually sue individuals...

[onon_onon]

I don't give a damn. No, really.

[Feba]

not at all. Like someone (I believe Linus) said, it's far more likely that MS is using linux patent/code than vice versa. Also, remember, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat, if linux *is* infringing on MS's patents, the code will probably be rewritten overnight and ready to go. Of course, MS won't even say what these patents are, let alone show us their code, so they're probably just plain full of it.

Basically, MS wants to scare linux into working with them... I think anyone who knows what "EEE" means knows that MS trying to work closer together with Linux is a very very scary thing.

[jrusso2]

If Microsoft wasn't doing anything to try to stop Linux it would mean that Linux was not a threat. You notice that they don't claim BSD violates any patents yet I am willing to be it would violate most of the same ones.

[slavik]

well, someone on slashdot found a patent issued to microsoft for a concurrent versioning system. CVS work began before I was born when MS didn't even have an OS (that needed CVS) on the market (early 1980s). Patent was granted in 2000 (or 2001, I forget).

Here's another one, any code that is written to adhere to or work with some standard (like an irc client for example) cannot be protected in any way (because there is obviously only one way to do it).

[vem0m]

Not at all scared... This is the dumbest attempt ever by them to do anything and those distros that fell for it needs to be burned straight to hell for falling for it. The fact lies MILLIONS of users use Linux and do you know what that means? MILLIONS have the source code and know how to work on not only the Apps but the kernel of the whole they cannot and will not take down Linux nor its users but they will make them selves look like the big jackasses they are at the end of it all.....

[Fenryr]

NO matter HOW big M$ gets, they're STILL tryin' to move the beach with a spoon...Bill Gates can go back to Redmond and dry-hump a woodchuck for all I care...What's he gonna do, fly to Australia just to confiscate my computer? *lol*

[Old Pink]

82% of people here aren't in the least bit bothered.

Seems Microsoft can't even FUD any more. ;)

[@trophy]

I voted "Not in the least bit concerned." but in reality, I'm a little(emphasis on little) bit worried. The courts in this country make this stuff up as they go... although significant amounts of money can definitely influence what exactly they're going to make up. Basically M$ has the dough to cause a significant headache for linux even though they have no case. It's like we're in the middle of a patent cold war, and I just hope that M$ is smart enough to realize that if anyone fires their nukes, then EVERYONE will fire their nukes. Then again, maybe a complete patent meltdown is just what we need to get Congress to actually do something about the ridiculous state of our current system.

[euler_fan]

Unless MS actually plans to put their cards on the table, so to speak, there is nothing for me, a home user, to worry about.

[matthinckley]

not concerned.. looks to me like microsoft is just throwing money at their problems.. seems like the only way they know how to deal with them.. gotta give it to them though.. pretty good idea:

let's offer commercial linux distributions a bunch of money to enter a 'patent protection' deal with us.. everyone involved in the deal will probably know that there is no threat to protect against but as long as we can say they took the deal the mass public will beleive that linux is infringing and at risk of being prosecuted..

can we say 'scare tactics'? and who can really blame these linux distro's from taking microsofts money? If microsoft called me up and said they would give me a bunch of money I would take it.. it's like the geico commercial.. if I said I would give you a million bucks to stand up, are you going to say "no I think I'll keep my seat." even if I made the seat and microsoft wanted me to stand up so people would think there was something wrong with my seat? I'll take the million bucks..

[stmiller]

It just brings MS down to a new low. In the same low place of SCO, and RIAA.

It's the business model of the 21st Century: Sue people to make money! Forget about making a good product. That's old school business practices. I wonder if they teach this in Econ and Business classes at college these days... :popcorn:

[joep]

Couldn't care less. :p

[frup]

I'd be prepared to go to jail to use linux and protest against extortion.

[matthinckley]

I'd be prepared to go to jail to use linux and protest against extortion.
I wouldn't really call it extortion since microsoft is the one paying money.. if I pay you to accept protection from me, is that extortion?

[Ozor Mox]

I am not in the least bit concerned for my own use of Linux. I was curious about what they were up to with these deals, and it does concern me that they are trying to slow risk-averse business adoption of Linux.

But it's good to see companies like Canonical, Red Hat and now Mandriva declaring that they will refuse to do similar deals, and the nature of free software means Microsoft literally cannot kill it (I like the moving a beach with a spoon analogy!) and there will always be options like the community developed distributions, BSD, and so on...

I will continue to use Ubuntu safe in the knowledge that Canonical will make no such patent deal with Microsoft (other deals with them I'm ok with, just to make that clear) and will simply attempt to use Microsoft products less than I do right now and support free software more as a result of all of this.

[brian j]

Why are Micro$$$$$$$oft allowed to be so "Dominant"?
Aren't there any Governing Laws in the US to put a "Restraint" on Micro$$$$$$ofts Very Nasty Attitude to any form of Competition??

[DC@DR]

I will stick with Ubuntu, for sure, but I'm kinda concerned about this. Any the only thing I'm seeing right now is that Novell/SUSE is getting more and more customers, even after signing patent deal with M$?! I feel kinda unfair for FOSS/Linux's advocates!

[Andrewie]

If any user on this thread was to get sued Red Hat, Novell, IBM, etc would rush in and help you even if you weren't running their distro, hiding behind a user name pretending like you don't care is complete B.S. this doesn't even apply to you. If you are a multi million dollar company thats running Linux then your trouble cause thats who Microsoft is targeting.

One of the funniest things about this whole Microsoft FUD thing is dell signed on with Novell and Microsoft but magically everyone forgot....

sorry, I'll shut up now so you can continue you war against the evil Novell

[aks44]

I'm too much used to Microsoft's FUD practices to feel concerned in any way.

Too bad some Linux distros fell into the trick.

[dca]

MS will never target corporations that use Linux (as w/ SCO versus Discount Autoparts or whoever they are)... Most corps run heterogeneous data centers that consist of open source and proprietary OSs... MS will loose the server business in a matter of weeks if they did that. Just out of spite every single Fortune 500 company in the US will migrate to Solaris or BSD!

I'm not concerned at all...

[jasonrandolph]

To me, "unspecified patents" sounds like Micro$oft is shooting in the dark. They don't like when they lose people to Linux, and their feelings are hurt. Seems to me that Apple could sue MS over "unspecified patents" too.

I think MS thinks that by flexing their financial muscle, they think they can eliminate the threat free software poses to their bottom line. Sorry Bill, free software is here to stay, and your worries ARE indeed justified.

[AusIV4]

My only concern is that it will discourage people (and corporations) from taking up Linux. Even though I believe Microsoft is completely full of it, they're still making money off of it. Some people will choose Microsoft because of this concern, and others will license the unspecified patents from Microsoft. Regardless, Microsoft makes money. I'd like to see some kind of suit against Microsoft to force them to show their hand. I think it's an incredible abuse of the patent system that they can get away with this, and I think they should be required to specify patents or stop making these claims.

I'm not the least bit concerned that this is going to kill Linux, it will probably slow adoption and consequently development.

[BrokeBody]

Eat my shorts! I'm not scared. :p

[forrestcupp]

I'm not scared, but I don't think we should be stupid and taunting about it.

[BrokeBody]

Those threats from Microsoft are useless unless they show of their code, and if they would... boy, there would be a lot of spywares, addwares, stolen algorithms to see... :rolleyes:

[stchman]

I don't think much will come of it as if M$ starts suing Linux they are going to have to PROVE that Linux infringes on their patents. That would mean that they would have to let people look at their code. What will probably happen is that people will see that M$ is violating the GPL and they will get in trouble. M$ has not had an original idea in a long time.

Did anyone see that M$ patented sudo for their UAC? What a crock. I think Mozilla should sue M$ for them using tabs in IE7.

[Feba]

Did anyone see that M$ patented sudo for their UAC? What a crock.
I believe under U.S. patent law, that would be nullified if it were ever taken to court, as it would already be in use.

You can't patent something that's already in significant use, even if no one else owns a patent

[stchman]

I believe under U.S. patent law, that would be nullified if it were ever taken to court, as it would already be in use.

You can't patent something that's already in significant use, even if no one else owns a patent

I bet that is one of the patents that M$ says Linux is violating. Leave it up to M$ to steal an idea, patent it, then claim someone else is stealing their intellectual property.

[microsoft92sucks]

You all should not be one bit scared and if you are then you need more faith in Linus. The only reason M$ is doing this is because there scared. Linux is going to take them down and Linux needs your help so help Linux any way you can. (Get more people using it, Right some software for it, so on and so on)

And M$ is really the last company that should be talking about paten's. Think back to every single one of there products and I can tell you who the stole it from. Here's a short list.

there was Dos before M$-Dos.
Apple made the mac and it had a GUI so M$ made Windows95 with a GUI.
Vista takes soooooooooooooooo much from OSX. And it has the Desktop button from Linux.
Xbox came out because the PS1 did so good.
the Zune came out because M$ seen how well the Ipod was doing.
Thats all the M$ stuff I know.
But see what I mean all M$ does is steal from others then they try to sue Linux for stealing when there the once stealing from Linux.
Some one needs to kick Bill Gates rich lying A$$. And If I ever meet him I'd be more then happy to do so.

In short we should not fear M$. M$ should fear us. And they wouldn't be doing all this If the weren't.

Sorry for all that M$ just really makes me mad.

[Feba]

arguing about who created GUI is like debating which country was the first one to use the wheel. It's just so incredibly obvious that everyone used it, and improved on it, that's why we have tires now instead of giant wooden things.

As to the rest of it, you're basically right. Lookup Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, it's what MS has always done, and it's what they're doing here with Novell.

[czechman86]

there are enough linux users in the former soviet union, where american copyright law is void, and they would conitnue the development of linux, even if microsoft shuts it down in the west. i truly doubt that microsoft will be successful though. i think that they are just throwing a temper tantrum, because vista isnt doing that well.

[Turgon]

I'm fortuned to live in a country where we don't honor software patents so there is really not any reason for me to be afraid other than that linux adoption will get a big setback in USA.

[microsoft92sucks]

arguing about who created GUI is like debating which country was the first one to use the wheel. It's just so incredibly obvious that everyone used it, and improved on it, that's why we have tires now instead of giant wooden things.

As to the rest of it, you're basically right. Lookup Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, it's what MS has always done, and it's what they're doing here with Novell.
Well I know that apple had a GUI before M$ I don't know who the very first is though. And for the rest M$ can't hurt Linux. Linux can and will hurt M$.

[steven8]

Well I know that apple had a GUI before M$ I don't know who the very first is though. And for the rest M$ can't hurt Linux. Linux can and will hurt M$.

Xerox, oddly enough. Apple gave Xerox stock to get access to it. The Xerox execs didn't want it. I've read they just weren't interested and they thought it was too costly. Not sure which is true, but Apple got it, Microsoft saw it, and cranked out a copy.

[STREETURCHINE]

not in the least bit worried,sick off hearing about it..

people brining this up is playing into microsofts hands.it keeps it in the publics eye and eventually people will start to believe..

let it die

[Ripfox]

I'm not scared, but I don't think we should be stupid and taunting about it.

Hey Bill...NAH NAH NAH NAH BOO BOO

[the_darkside_986]

This is nothing more than M.S. acting childish in response to being sued over mp3 "patent" violations. Instead of standing up against the mp3 format and promoting an open format or their own evil Windows Media format, they decide to whine and point the finger at a free OS where silly software patents can't properly be enforced.

[JDMT]

I'm not switching back to XP, as soon as I get my Ubuntu CD, my computer isn't compatible with Vista, Vista is what, $200 something CAD?, I can get Ubuntu CDs from the Ubuntu homepage for free. Games like Puzzle Pirates and RuneScape are compatible with Ubuntu, a game that I play sometimes, Rigs of Rods, also compatible with Ubuntu, my favourite Gameboy Advanced Emulator, compatible with Ubuntu, µTorrent, my favourite BitTorrent client, compatible with Ubuntu, if you have Wine, FireFox, ThunderBird, both compatible with Ubuntu, I could go on, but I'm going to leave it there.

[PacShady]

You all should not be one bit scared and if you are then you need more faith in Linus. The only reason M$ is doing this is because there scared. Linux is going to take them down and Linux needs your help so help Linux any way you can. (Get more people using it, Right some software for it, so on and so on)

And M$ is really the last company that should be talking about paten's. Think back to every single one of there products and I can tell you who the stole it from. Here's a short list.

there was Dos before M$-Dos.
Apple made the mac and it had a GUI so M$ made Windows95 with a GUI.
Vista takes soooooooooooooooo much from OSX. And it has the Desktop button from Linux.
Xbox came out because the PS1 did so good.
the Zune came out because M$ seen how well the Ipod was doing.
Thats all the M$ stuff I know.
But see what I mean all M$ does is steal from others then they try to sue Linux for stealing when there the once stealing from Linux.
Some one needs to kick Bill Gates rich lying A$$. And If I ever meet him I'd be more then happy to do so.

In short we should not fear M$. M$ should fear us. And they wouldn't be doing all this If the weren't.

Sorry for all that M$ just really makes me mad.


Not to mention the scores of companies and products (http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/catalog/yrcatalog.shtml) Microsoft has bought out over the years. Or the so-called innovations (http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.shtml) they've made claims to. As well as all the dirty tricks (http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/dirtytricks.shtml) they've used to put other companies out of business and push their own products.

Here's some more ways Microsoft has screwed people over in the past:


Originally from http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

Microsoft royally screwed over Spyglass by licensing their code and then turning around and giving it away for free. This obviously made it a lot more difficult for Spyglass to sell other licenses since their potential customers could just embed Internet Explorer for free. Not only did Microsoft destroy Spyglass' existing market, but Spyglass also accused Microsoft of not paying the required royalties on the code that they licensed. Spyglass has since been relegated to a niche market, and it is interesting to note that they don't even mention Internet Explorer as one of their accomplishments in their showcase.


Originally from http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

Kerberos is a technology created at MIT to make it easy for users to securely prove who they are. As an example, instead of having to enter a password for every program or web page you want to use, you would enter your password once when you begin your session with the computer and then Kerberos would take care of authenticating you everywhere else so that you don't have to re-enter your password over and over. This is a bit of an over-simplification, but suffice is to say that Kerberos is very useful and very well designed.

Kerberos, as with most MIT software projects, was made freely available for anybody to use and integrate into their software. In typical Microsoft style, Microsoft took the Kerberos standard (which they got for free, mind you), integrated it into Windows and then changed it to be incompatible with Kerberos on every other platform. If that wasn't enough, they refused to freely release details of the changes that they made so that other platforms could be made compatible with their Windows "extensions." After much complaining from the tech community, Microsoft eventually released a spec for their changes, but in order to access it you had to agree to a license stating that it was a trade secret (yes, they wanted to claim trade secret protection on something they had mostly gotten for free from MIT)! Some people eventually decided to ignore the license and publish what changes were made anyway, which prompted Microsoft to threaten legal action. (Note: Microsoft did eventually allow public access to their changes after much outcry. Nonetheless, their Kerberos implementation still does not allow appropriate interoperability with standard Kerberos software.)


Originally from http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html

Java promised to make it simple to write programs that would run on any computer regardless of whether or not that computer was running Windows and many people were pleasantly surprised when Microsoft announced that they would fully support this new technology and would not "extend Java in ways that would be proprietary to Windows." It was only much later, to the dismay of many Java developers who had actually believed that Microsoft was acting out of goodwill, that Microsoft started leaving critical pieces out of the version of Java which it shipped as well as replacing those critical pieces with code that would only work on Windows thus negating one of Java's primary advantages for the sake of keeping their Windows monopoly. Developers banded together to beg Microsoft to live up to their original promise but Microsoft's response was very mocking, reportedly saying that "anybody riding on Java is... hanging on a limb." This was a far cry from their original promise to fully support Java. Of course, they made that promise back when they were desperately trying to gain market share for their fledgling Internet Explorer browser and they certainly wouldn't have achieved their current market share without Java support, so now that they have what they wanted it's ok for them to go back on their promise, right?


Originally from http://www.openaddict.com/microsofts_patent_and_ip_infringement.html

As a response to Digital Research's DR-DOS 6.0, which bundled SuperStor disk compression, Microsoft opened negotiations with Stac Electronics, vendor of the most popular DOS disk compression tool, Stacker. Stac was unwilling to meet Microsoft's terms for licensing Stacker and withdrew from the negotiations. In the due diligence process, Stac engineers had shown Microsoft some Stacker source code. However, Microsoft chose to license Vertisoft's DoubleDisk instead of Stacker.

Soon, MS-DOS 6.0 was released, including the Microsoft DoubleSpace disk compression utility program. Stac successfully sued Microsoft for patent infringement regarding the compression algorithm used in DoubleSpace. This resulted in the release of MS-DOS 6.21, which had disk-compression removed. Shortly afterwards came version 6.22, with a new version of the disk compression system, DriveSpace, rewritten to avoid the infringing code.


Originally from http://www.openaddict.com/microsofts_patent_and_ip_infringement.html

The likelihood of Microsoft having to pay millions of dollars in damages for infringing the contested Eolas patent for web browser technology increased last week when the US Patent and Trademark Office reaffirmed the patent's validity.

The USPTO's decision comes two years after the Office's director ordered a reexamination of the Eolas patent. Microsoft had contested the patent's validity after a US court ordered it to pay Eolas Technologies $521 million in damages for infringing the Eolas patent with its Internet Explorer browser. Microsoft subsequently appealed.


Originally from http://www.openaddict.com/microsofts_patent_and_ip_infringement.html

A bitter fight has broken out between Symantec and Microsoft. Symantec claims that Microsoft stole code from Veritas software. Microsoft say they bought it.

Either way Microsoft's relationship with Symantec and the Veritas brand is tarnished and the big loser could well be Symantec as Microsoft develops products that compete directly with them.

Symantec's director of legal affairs, Michael Shallop, has alleged that Microsoft employed its own programmers to take apart source code from storage virtualisation leader Veritas to which Microsoft was not entitled, and then used the information it gleaned from that code to create storage virtualisation device drivers for Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, and forthcoming versions of Windows Vista and "Longhorn"...

And for some more info about juicy Microsoft nastiness, check out the Halloween Documents (http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/) (if you haven't already).

'Shady

[JarG0n]

I couldn't find the "Microshaft can go pound sand." option.

My suspicion is that MIcrosoft is part of the New World Order, and is the OS of choice for the international banking cartel. No, not the developers, or low level peeps. These are mostly good people. It's the high level decision makers that are the tyrants. I wonder how many Microsoft execs and major shareholders; and yes Bill Gates, are members of the Council on Foreign Relations. Don't underestimate tyrants; they plan long term. FOSS must do the same thing.

It's this type of abuse that is driving people away from Microsoft. I hope they continue to shoot themselves in the foot, driving more people to open source (and Ubuntu!).

[Anonii]

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!

[old_geekster]

I have to say, "SCREW" MS. I will sell my PC and buy Apple if they keep it up.

I won't be told what OS I have to use by a company. Are they going to come to my house to see what I have installed?

I have it installed and on a DVD. I will use it just the way it is until I can't make it work any longer.

There!! Take that MS. I will never buy another product of yours. (Period)