Yahoo censoring Open Source and Linux

[bonzodog]

It seems that Yahoo Answers is trying hard to push MS solutions and more or less banning any usage of the idea of Linux or Open Source.

http://slated.org/yahoo_censoring_open_source

[earobinson]

and thats why everyone uses google.

[Detonate]

I've been using Yahoo mail for many, many years, but it's time for a change. Recently some ISP's have been blocking my email to their subscribers because it comes from a Yahoo account. They cite spam as the reason. I can correspond with some people only by using my .mil email address. Any recommendations? My ISP, via Qwest DSL is MSN so I won't be using that one for sure. Maybe I'll sign up for an IP with web hosting and use that address.

[DR_K13]

ooops, didnt see the other thread/

[lingnoi]

I've been using Yahoo mail for many, many years, but it's time for a change. Recently some ISP's have been blocking my email to their subscribers because it comes from a Yahoo account. They cite spam as the reason. I can correspond with some people only by using my .mil email address. Any recommendations? My ISP, via Qwest DSL is MSN so I won't be using that one for sure. Maybe I'll sign up for an IP with web hosting and use that address.

I just got a spam email from a yahoo account this afternoon. First time.

Back on topic. This is the company that helps the chinese government put free speech advocates in prison so it comes no suprise to me that they would censor based on their biased opinions.

Saying that Yahoo does contribute open source code and I believe the inventor of PHP and APC works on yahoo mail so I wouldn't say they are an all Microsoft shop otherwise they'd be running ASP on ISS and be a lovely poster boy for Microsoft's get the facts campaign.

[Onyros]

Coincidence, or not, all Nigerian scammers on eBay use yahoo accounts. Go figure.

[karellen]

I don't have many problems with my yahoo mail. I get very little spam as I don't give easily my address. but I keep that account particulary for yahoo messenger, as 99% are using it because they have yahoo accounts.

[finer recliner]

read it here:
http://slated.org/yahoo_censoring_open_source


this was a stupid move by yahoo. they're going to scare away their userbase if they continue with such an unprecedented censorship.

[mips]

This is now the third thread on this topic, do people not read anymore ?

[finer recliner]

hey, i used the built-in "check if already posted" button before i posted, and nothing came up. dont be so quick to judge me.

and if this thread was already started, would you mind the sharing the link with me next time?

[Cheese Sandwich]

(On second thought...)

[mips]

hey, i used the built-in "check if already posted" button before i posted, and nothing came up. dont be so quick to judge me.

and if this thread was already started, would you mind the sharing the link with me next time?

Ok.

That means I have to go look for them...

Edit:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=481301
There is one more somewhere.

[Zero Prime]

Thats odd, I just tried a search for Linux on Yahoo Answers and got a page full of hits. Same for searching for Open source software.

[Keisad]

Ah, this is worthy of a crusade!

I'm deleting the yahoo plugin in my gaim.

XD

[Tundro Walker]

Thats odd, I just tried a search for Linux on Yahoo Answers and got a page full of hits. Same for searching for Open source software.

Read the article. They're not censoring open source from search engine activities, they're censoring users who participate in forums from making suggestions about using open source alternatives to MS / Windows products.

The first few paragraphs sum it up pretty clearly, that when a person recommended someone should install Ubuntu to help clear up their MS problems, they were warned by Yahoo that the reply violated their terms / guidelines, and that her post was deleted.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, Yahoo can do whatever the heck they want with their site. But, censoring users in this way, trying to ignore the big elephant in the room that open source is turning into, is quite dumb.

To sum up the replies to that article, and (probably a lot of) the replies here, folks could really care less about Yahoo, because a lot of people have turned to Google, which is an active supporter of innovation, freedom of choice, etc.

If Yahoo was the only game in town, then they could do this and folks would have to suck it up. But they're not the only game in town, so folks blow them off and move on down the road. The same is happening with MS, too, in some cases, because, while MS does a good job of making its locked-in user base believe MS is the only game in town, word is getting out that there's another game to rival them (be it Ubuntu, another Linux distro, BSD, what-have-you).

Of course, switching search-engines & email account providers is a heck of a lot less intimidating then switching OS'...apparently Yahoo didn't think about that when they made this decision. Maybe Yahoo will take this as a lesson learned...the rules that apply to Microsoft do not also apply to those in bed with them.

[Tundro Walker]

SIDE THOUGHT:

This kinda bothers me, because, being a hypocrite, I use Google as my search engine, but I have a Yahoo email account. If they're censoring forum posts about open source, do I have to now worry about them censoring my email? Do I have to worry about them extending the censorship to other topics?

Give them an inch, they'll take a yard...

[Bartender]

So start a gmail account and move your contacts.

[SoulinEther]

I use MSN's messenger service. I don't support Microsoft much at all anymore and I don't really like them. But almost all my friends use MSN, so I use it too.

Plus, their messenger client in Windows is not too shabby - it's got voice, video, webclips, etc. There's no good open source alternative.. Jabber doesn't cut it.

As long as their email client doesn't start censoring Linux, i don't see a reason to feel like a hypocrite... dunno.

Solution: everybody answer questions about windows problems by offering linux/FOSS alternatives.

[Atreus12]

If anyone feels motivated:

ditch the firefox extension 'del.icio.us Bookmarks' in favor of 'foxmarks'.

Del.icio.us is a yahoo product. Plus, foxmarks beats it hands down.

-Andrew

[juxtaposed]

Del.icio.us is a yahoo product.

I've seen that name so many times recently, but I have no idea what it is. Odd. I makes me not like it :P

Wikipedia-ed it... Social bookmarketing?!?! These stupid social sites like myspace (Murdoch, blah) and facebook are annoying.

[macogw]

SIDE THOUGHT:

This kinda bothers me, because, being a hypocrite, I use Google as my search engine, but I have a Yahoo email account. If they're censoring forum posts about open source, do I have to now worry about them censoring my email? Do I have to worry about them extending the censorship to other topics?

Give them an inch, they'll take a yard...
I still have an old Yahoo email address that I check once in a while and see that it's full of Barnes & Noble coupons and notifications about random websites I joined. It's also got hundreds of spams every time I check (a few weeks in between). I'd like if they just starting censoring the spammers (don't send it to "spam box" send it to /dev/null!). I should just move the only account with that mail about which I care (amazon) to my gmail and delete it.

[macogw]

I've seen that name so many times recently, but I have no idea what it is. Odd. I makes me not like it :P

Wikipedia-ed it... Social bookmarketing?!?! These stupid social sites like myspace (Murdoch, blah) and facebook are annoying.

It's NOTHING like those. It's not a profile or anything. It lets you get to your bookmarks from anywhere. Instead of "oh there's this great site but I bookmarked it at home so I can't show you," you just go to your page and click on one of the tags to bring it up. I don't have to email links to myself anymore. It's great. If you want to avoid it for being Yahoo, check out ma.gnolia.com (which uses OpenID authentication and therefore gets major thumbs up). It really is useful to be able to access an organized database of sites you like from anywhere instead of just your home computer (the same reason I prefer webmail to pop3 + mail client....I want to get my info from everywhere, not just one computer)

[macogw]

I use MSN's messenger service. I don't support Microsoft much at all anymore and I don't really like them. But almost all my friends use MSN, so I use it too.

Plus, their messenger client in Windows is not too shabby - it's got voice, video, webclips, etc. There's no good open source alternative.. Jabber doesn't cut it.

As long as their email client doesn't start censoring Linux, i don't see a reason to feel like a hypocrite... dunno.

Solution: everybody answer questions about windows problems by offering linux/FOSS alternatives.

Kopete does voice and video, doesn't it? I know it does MSN networks. There's also aMSN.

[vexorian]

I was going to say boyCott yahoo! but I Can't think of a lot of people that still use it... I personaly just have an email aCCount there I use to register to random sites, it gets like 1000 spam a day...

[dspari1]

Good thing Google uses their own version of Ubuntu, so I really have nothing to worry about. :popcorn:

[Wiebelhaus]

I've always hated yahoo anyway.

[loell]

Kopete does voice and video, doesn't it? I know it does MSN networks. There's also aMSN.

no it does not :( , native yahoo voice in linux == impossible

[vem0m]

Reason this is going on is Yahoo! Is in talks with Microsoft to be bought out(or was) also they have an agreement already going on sharing information and such and thus Microsoft stakes a huge share in what they do and say thus the censors

[RAV TUX]

If anyone feels motivated:

ditch the firefox extension 'del.icio.us Bookmarks' in favor of 'foxmarks'.

Del.icio.us is a yahoo product. Plus, foxmarks beats it hands down.

-Andrew

Yahoo is also a sizable shareholder in Google, does this mean that we should stop using Google also?

[steven8]

Reason this is going on is Yahoo! Is in talks with Microsoft to be bought out(or was) also they have an agreement already going on sharing information and such and thus Microsoft stakes a huge share in what they do and say thus the censors

And so. . .if this is true. . .how many people here still believe that Microsoft 'uniting' with Linux through various compacts, so to speak, will be good for Linux??? Anyone?

[RAV TUX]

I still have an old Yahoo email address that I check once in a while and see that it's full of Barnes & Noble coupons and notifications about random websites I joined. It's also got hundreds of spams every time I check (a few weeks in between). I'd like if they just starting censoring the spammers (don't send it to "spam box" send it to /dev/null!). I should just move the only account with that mail about which I care (amazon) to my gmail and delete it.

I use Yahoo email, premium business email...not free Yahoo email....

I simple set my junk mail to auto delete....simple solution, I receive zero spam with Yahoo.

I have seen btw many non-Linux forums do the same thing the OP has talked about this is not unique to Yahoo forums.

[bapoumba]

Threads merged.

[karellen]

I don't know about others, I honestly don't care much about this topic...My primary e-mail is on gmail (and hotmail, so what) and I use the yahoo account almost just for accesing yahoo messenger - which I find the best solution among im, at least for me. so as long they don't mess with my account and they don't do something really stupid - like stopping developing the messenger - I have few problems with them (except some spam messages from time to time)

[loell]

well, they already stop developing yahoo messenger for linux long time ago :p, unless you mean the versions for windows and mac.

[karellen]

well, they already stop developing yahoo messenger for linux long time ago :p, unless you mean the versions for windows and mac.

of course ;) (yahoo messenger for linux was a joke)
I'm sorry to say that but no open-source im can't compete right now with yahoo messenger (I'm really looking forward to see that day when I'll be able to drag'n'drop a 700 mb movie file into an opened chat window in ym and then begin the file-transfer to the other person. not mentioning photo sharing, which I use alot)

[loell]

maybe in due (open source) time, which is we all know is kinda long time especially when it tackles a proprietary protocol like YM. and perhaps by that time then, open protocol IM's is already soaring high.

isn't yahoo photos dying? in favor of flickr?

[Sunnz]

But Yahoo runs on FreeBSD, how could they!?

They must be the biggest hypocrite ever.

[Detonate]

I use Yahoo email, premium business email...not free Yahoo email....

I simple set my junk mail to auto delete....simple solution, I receive zero spam with Yahoo.

I would urge some caution there. I too, use a Yahoo Premium account. I have the spam filter send all the spam to a folder. I review this folder weekly. Usually contains from 700 to 1000 messages. I always find several messages that should not have been sent to this folder. And even after moving the messages to the Inbox to indicate they are not spam, Yahoo spam filter does not get updated, and I will receive messages in the spam folder the very next week from the same sender.

[steveneddy]

This is now the third thread on this topic, do people not read anymore ?

no

[purdy hate machine]

This article completely misses the point of why certain questions and responses get deleted by Yahoo; there are many active topics on YA relating to Linux and open source. The problem is that a lot of Linux users see Linux as the answer to all problems Windows related, which it is not. If someone posts a question on YA asking for help in fixing their win installation and receives a response back saying “install Linux” then that answer deserves to be deleted as it’s not actually a solution to the problem. Exactly the same thing would happen here, if a member of the Ubuntu forums answered every request for help with the response “ just install Windows and your problems will be solved “ I’m sure their posts would also be treated with the contempt that they deserve.

[Cheese Sandwich]

This article completely misses the point of why certain questions and responses get deleted by Yahoo; there are many active topics on YA relating to Linux and open source. The problem is that a lot of Linux users see Linux as the answer to all problems Windows related, which it is not. If someone posts a question on YA asking for help in fixing their win installation and receives a response back saying “install Linux” then that answer deserves to be deleted as it’s not actually a solution to the problem. Exactly the same thing would happen here, if a member of the Ubuntu forums answered every request for help with the response “ just install Windows and your problems will be solved “ I’m sure their posts would also be treated with the contempt that they deserve.

:idea:

[loell]

hah! you completely miss the point of the article too, the user asking the question had no windows disc, so how is sugguesting a free OS disc not relevant?

base on my expireince, a yahoo user was asking why yahoo never updates there Y! messenger for linux to the point that its not installable anymore , so i suggested the opensource alternatives, then later that day, i could not find my post. so how is my post not relevant?

try doing similar yet the opposite here in ubuntuforums, and your post won't get deleted that easy without an explaination from the staff, instead your given a chance to explain your suggestion , before you are given an infraction.

[purdy hate machine]

hah! you completely miss the point of the article too, the user asking the question had no windows disc, so how is sugguesting a free OS disc not relevant?

huh? Did you even read the article?
Here is the original question posted on YA.


Question: Installing Microsoft Windows XP OS?

Question Details: My company is getting rid of old PCs and I’m considering buying one. They have completely wiped out the hard drive, so there is no OS installed at all. Previously it had Windows Me or 2000 on it (not sure which). Is it going to be foolish of me to think I can buy Windows XP and install it myself? What kind of problems can I expect to run into?

How is “Install Linux” in any way a relevant answer to “What kind of problems can I expect to run into? (While installing xp and ms office for myself)” ?

If the op is worried about installing xp from scratch its debateable that he/she is even ready for Linux, in my opinion it would be irresponsible to casually recommend it without further discussions.

A little less paranoia and a bit more common sense people.

[karellen]

try doing similar yet the opposite here in ubuntuforums, and your post won't get deleted that easy without an explaination from the staff, instead your given a chance to explain your suggestion , before you are given an infraction.

yahoo is a commercial corporation. ubuntuforums is not...;) (they have to right to do whatever they want with their answers service)

[loell]

yahoo is a commercial corporation. ubuntuforums is not...;) (they have to right to do whatever they want with their answers service)

yahoo answer is both a service and a community because it has member participation after all, its true that they have the right to remove any of the suggestions they want. your point is yahoo and ubuntuforms are not the same and a different process is involve in post removing, which is exactly what i would like to point out to purry

in response to his post


Exactly the same thing would happen here, if a member of the Ubuntu forums answered every request for help with the response “ just install Windows and your problems will be solved “ I’m sure their posts would also be treated with the contempt that they deserve.

[loell]

reading at the question


Question Details: My company is getting rid of old PCs and I’m considering buying one. They have completely wiped out the hard drive, so there is no OS installed at all. Previously it had Windows Me or 2000 on it (not sure which). Is it going to be foolish of me to think I can buy Windows XP and install it myself? What kind of problems can I expect to run into?

the member did not specify that he/she will only accept windows solution. so the suggestion of installing ubuntu is valid.




If the op is worried about installing xp from scratch its debateable that he/she is even ready for Linux, in my opinion it would be irresponsible to casually recommend it without further discussions.




so how will suggestion removal encourage further discussions?

[M$LOL]

The gist of it is, that a fellow Yahoo'er posted a question about what to do with a PC that had run into unsolvable Windows problems, since that user did not have a Windows install disc.
I was under the impression that this was the scenario for which a Linux installation was suggested.

[Sunnz]

the member did not specify that he/she will only accept windows solution. so the suggestion of installing ubuntu is valid.

If you ask something along the lines of "Is it hard to install Ubuntu? What kind of problem would one expect to run into", and I go suggest you to download MirOS and try that, what would you think? (hopefully you haven't heard of MirOS, otherwise just substitude an OS that you do not yet know about.)

Well that's how I would interpret the question "Is it going to be foolish of me to think I can buy Windows XP and install it myself?"; s/he is asking if installing Windows XP is a difficult task, then follow up with the question "What kind of problems can I expect to run into?", any sane person would interpret it to be related to the previous question about installing Windows XP.

[loell]

If you ask something along the lines of "Is it hard to install Ubuntu? What kind of problem would one expect to run into", and I go suggest you to download MirOS and try that, what would you think? (hopefully you haven't heard of MirOS, otherwise just substitude an OS that you do not yet know about.)

Well that's how I would interpret the question "Is it going to be foolish of me to think I can buy Windows XP and install it myself?"; s/he is asking if installing Windows XP is a difficult task, then follow up with the question "What kind of problems can I expect to run into?", any sane person would interpret it to be related to the previous question about installing Windows XP.

see, the question is open to individual interpretation, on the the question

"Is it hard to Install Ubuntu" and what kind of problems one would expect.

and if someone answered

" I don't know, but i know XP is easy to install"

i'd say its a valid suggestion and argument.

[purdy hate machine]

the member did not specify that he/she will only accept windows solution. so the suggestion of installing ubuntu is valid.

The member also didn’t specify that she wouldn’t accept a cheese sandwich as a solution, that doesn’t make it a viable alternative. However, the question title “Installing Microsoft Windows XP OS?” is a bit of a giveaway is it not?



so how will suggestion removal encourage further discussions?

Well, maybe doing something radical like answering the actual question and then offering alternatives would go some way to encourage further discussions.

[loell]

The member also didn’t specify that she wouldn’t accept a cheese sandwich as a solution, that doesn’t make it a viable alternative. However, the question title “Installing Microsoft Windows XP OS?” is a bit of a giveaway is it not?


cheese sandwich is a food, right? sorry, i have only eaten rice,fish and vege all my life ;)

while both XP and ubuntu is an OS , something that they could relate into.
but then again, the members question/problem is open to interpretation.

in my opinion, what would have been the right approach is not to remove it, but wait for others for suggestion rebuttal.

[karellen]

it's very hard for me to imagine what could be something like "unsolvable windows problem". and anyway hoping to get decent help from yahoo answer/forums is very "elusive", not to say more...

[Cheese Sandwich]

cheese sandwich is a food, right? sorry, i have only eaten rice,fish and vege all my life ;)


I like this guy. 8)

[loell]

looking at your avatar, yummy! its mouth wattering :mrgreen:

[Sunnz]

see, the question is open to individual interpretation, on the the question

"Is it hard to Install Ubuntu" and what kind of problems one would expect.

and if someone answered

" I don't know, but i know XP is easy to install"

i'd say its a valid suggestion and argument.

But I suggested MirOS, not XP... so I guess you know about XP but have not heard of MirOS, and that awareness makes it ok for someone to suggest XP?

Well by the word of the original question at Yahoo, it is very likely and s/he have only know about Windows, but is not aware of any other alternative... so by your logic, suggesting Vista would be a more valid suggestion than Ubuntu, since s/he should have heard about it.

Otherwise you can tell me why you have changed my suggestion of MirOS to XP.

[loell]

But I suggested MirOS, not XP... so I guess you know about XP but have not heard of MirOS, and that awareness makes it ok for someone to suggest XP?

Well by the word of the original question at Yahoo, it is very likely and s/he have only know about Windows, but is not aware of any other alternative... so by your logic, suggesting Vista would be a more valid suggestion than Ubuntu, since s/he should have heard about it.

Otherwise you can tell me why you have changed my suggestion of MirOS to XP.

if i'm a new user, and would ask your original the question "Is Ubuntu hard to install"?.
given that i have shown interest in installing ubuntu OS , and you answered MirOS and you have provided a link of MIrOS though i could have just googled MIrOS, i will then know that its also another OS, thus making your suggestion valid.

so are we now assuming that the certain user will only know windows and windows alone? and will not have the capacity to know other desktop OS? if given the right information?

unfortunately each of us may have certain assumptions, in amanda's case she answered with the assumption, that since there are other answers before her thats related to xp alone.

qoute from amanda

if you buy the XP disks you just get that - XP. No MS office, no other programs other than the very basics.

If you’re starting over anyways, grab a blank CD and use imgburn ( http://imgburn.com/ ) to burn an Ubuntu ( http://ubuntu.com/ ) or Kubuntu ( http://kubuntu.com/ ) .iso on there.

Put the burned CD in the CD tray and restart the computer. It doesn’t need a hard drive at all to run - it loads into the computer’s RAM (temporary memory).

K/ubuntu comes fully loaded and thousands of other programs are just a few clicks away - you just look them up in a built in installer, it grabs the stuff needed and installs it all. It’s free in both senses of the word - free of cost and free of obligations.

i think her post is informative enough for that user to have an idea what Ubuntu is, and how it may relate to solve his problem.

[samschoice]

First, I'm going to assume the story is true. Cui Bono ? What would Yahoo have to benefit from this?

1. Maybe Microsoft is paying Yahoo
2. Maybe Microsoft is about to buy Yahoo, again
3. Maybe the deal has already been made ?
4. Maybe the moderators don't know what Ubuntu is and see it as being off topic?


As a side note, I use Yahoo answers all the time. It is a great source of information.

[purdy hate machine]

think her post is informative enough for that user to have an idea what Ubuntu is, and how it may relate to solve his problem.

Which would be great if that was what the op had asked for. ](*,)
Unfortunately the response didn't even try to answer the questions in the original post, why look for a conspiracy theory when the explanation is right there in your face?

[Sunnz]

if i'm a new user, and would ask your original the question "Is Ubuntu hard to install"?.
given that i have shown interest in installing ubuntu OS , and you answered MirOS and you have provided a link of MIrOS though i could have just googled MIrOS, i will then know that its also another OS, thus making your suggestion valid.

so are we now assuming that the certain user will only know windows and windows alone? and will not have the capacity to know other desktop OS? if given the right information?That was your assumption - since you changed my example of MirOS, which I suppose you haven't heard of, to Windows XP, I would take it as you have a reason to do so... my assumption is that even you would like something you have at least heard of, not some random software name. (BTW, MirOS is a nice OS.)


unfortunately each of us may have certain assumptions, in amanda's case she answered with the assumption, that since there are other answers before her thats related to xp alone.

i think her post is informative enough for that user to have an idea what Ubuntu is, and how it may relate to solve his problem.
I think not. For someone who is asking "Would it be foolish for me to just buy Windows XP and install it myself", do you really think they'll know what an ISO file is? Then download this program, that program, and they perhaps don't know the different between Ubuntu and Kubuntu, and download both, and... I just couldn't agree that it is informative for the computer experience of the questioner.

[prizrak]

This article completely misses the point of why certain questions and responses get deleted by Yahoo; there are many active topics on YA relating to Linux and open source. The problem is that a lot of Linux users see Linux as the answer to all problems Windows related, which it is not. If someone posts a question on YA asking for help in fixing their win installation and receives a response back saying “install Linux” then that answer deserves to be deleted as it’s not actually a solution to the problem. Exactly the same thing would happen here, if a member of the Ubuntu forums answered every request for help with the response “ just install Windows and your problems will be solved “ I’m sure their posts would also be treated with the contempt that they deserve.

Yay someone said it, I was wondering if I would have to be the only one to point it out.

[karellen]

Yay someone said it, I was wondering if I would have to be the only one to point it out.

that makes three of us as I agree with the post you quoted

[santy_kushwaha]

i'm helplesss for that

[loell]

That was your assumption - since you changed my example of MirOS, which I suppose you haven't heard of, to Windows XP, I would take it as you have a reason to do so... my assumption is that even you would like something you have at least heard of, not some random software name. (BTW, MirOS is a nice OS.)

I think not. For someone who is asking "Would it be foolish for me to just buy Windows XP and install it myself", do you really think they'll know what an ISO file is? Then download this program, that program, and they perhaps don't know the different between Ubuntu and Kubuntu, and download both, and... I just couldn't agree that it is informative for the computer experience of the questioner.

oh well, since we could not agree about the relevance that amanda posted, you believe its irrelevant while i still believe it is valid.

yet one thing is clear, suggestion relevance is never part of Yahoo Answers community guidelines ,

in which it is suppose to be the basis of post removal as indicated by the email she recieved.