Help me build a new PC!

[Extreme Coder]

Hi, I'm currently building a PC to one of my friends; he got the Linux dsease from me ;) and is also a big gamer.
So he put me to the job of building something that should be as powerful as possible, but within sane limits of costs ;) It should keep him content for 2-3 years.

So:

Processor : AMD or Intel? AFAIK both support Linux, but who does it better? And who's processors give more power for your money? And which series do I choose? (Athlon/Core Duo/etc..)

Motherboard : Should I get him something with an Intel Chipset, or something with an nVidia nForce or ATI AMD chipset? My guess is that something coming from nVidia or ATI would be more powerful, but I have no idea :/ I'd really appreciate it if you could recommend specific motherboards.

Graphics Card : nVidia or ATI?(yes I know ATI sucks for Linux, but maybe they're fine for gaming ?) Also, I've been hearing about connecting multiple nVidia cards on the same PC for better performance using SLI, or the same thing for ATI cards using CrossFire. Again, I have no idea about this one too. Should I use something with SLI/Crossfire?

Memory: How much would be good for this set-up? (I'm guessing it should be DDR2, of course :P )

DVD: Which brand to buy? Sony/Samsung/LG/etc..? (I can't ask for a specific model, since I doubt I'd find it here, but you can still say it if you want)

As you have probably guessed, I'm not updated with the latest tech and stuff :/

Thanks very much, and I really appreciate it!
Extreme Coder

[maniacmusician]

processor; Intel Core 2 Duo. I like the E6600.

Motherboard; Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6...if you can't afford it, then GA-965P-DS3

Graphics Card: SLI isn't really necessary. Best bang for your buck; eVGA GeForce 7600GT. If you want super duper performance, you could get something from the GeForce 8 series.

Memory: OCZ/Corsair DDR2800 would probably be the optimal choice. RAM is expensive.

DVD: Doesn't really matter. Lite-on is good, as are Sony and Samsung. you could probably get a burner.

Hard drive: SATA2 (aka SATA3.0Gb/s) is your best bet. Capacities anywhere from 320-500GB are a good value. good manufacturers are Seagate, Western Digital, and even Samsung has been doing well lately.

[Naralas]

I was trying to build a 600 dollar gaming machine recently. I hit 900 and thats without wireless and with a disappointing video card.

I would say Maniac knows what he's talking about, he helped me build my machine, and helped me fix it when it went poof

[mips]

processor; Intel Core 2 Duo. I like the E6600.

Motherboard; Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6...if you can't afford it, then GA-965P-DS3

Graphics Card: SLI isn't really necessary. Best bang for your buck; eVGA GeForce 7600GT. If you want super duper performance, you could get something from the GeForce 8 series.

Memory: OCZ/Corsair DDR2800 would probably be the optimal choice. RAM is expensive.

DVD: Doesn't really matter. Lite-on is good, as are Sony and Samsung. you could probably get a burner.

Hard drive: SATA2 (aka SATA3.0Gb/s) is your best bet. Capacities anywhere from 320-500GB are a good value. good manufacturers are Seagate, Western Digital, and even Samsung has been doing well lately.

+1 Good recommendation

Why does no one ever state their budget when they ask questions like this as it is probably the most important factor when asking for advice like this ?

[SoulinEther]

+1 Good recommendation

Why does no one ever state their budget when they ask questions like this as it is probably the most important factor when asking for advice like this ?
Well, for one, the costs of goods varies from country to country and from store to store...

A price "range" or whatever is probably sufficient. "Cheap", "Moderate", and "All-out", for example.

[rejser]

Processor : Amd is plenty bang for the buck. Look at the x2 series.

Motherboard : I use nvidia chipset, works good for everything accept running mac os x86

Graphics Card : Half a year ago I would have said nvidia 7600gt, but now once I got my ati 1950pro that costs about the same (at least where I live), really good for gaming, and works flawlessly in linux. Skip dual, costs more than it's brings power.

Memory: 2gb ddr2 800mhz

DVD: by nec, cheap and really reliable.

For me it finished on about 550 euro (5000 swedish krona)

Hey, that's my computer :D

[mips]

Well, for one, the costs of goods varies from country to country and from store to store...

A price "range" or whatever is probably sufficient. "Cheap", "Moderate", and "All-out", for example.


A budget still provides some baseline to work from.

In this case we might as well build him the most expensive pc out there, he should then be happy.

[Alpha_toxic]

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon 64x2
Generally the conroes are faster, but are more expensive. I'd personally go for AMD 3800+ or 4200+. Those can be overclocked a lot and a nice performance/money wise.

Motherboard: If you really want THE THING get a DFI Lan Party (expensive stuff though).
for Conroe - Asus p5b. Note that there is a whole family of p5b mobos that are different and some are great while others are crap. As I recall p5b-delux was a good one. Also some of the models have some werid IDE controller that refuses to work in linux...
for AMD - I have Epox MF4 Ultra-3 (this is with nForce4, 100% linux friendly) and I'm happy with it, nice for clocking.
A intell processor + a propper mobo for those are MUCH more expensive than a AMD + a propper mobo, so again, I'd stick with AMD.
If you need WIFI I can't help. I've never looked into wifi so i have no idea what works best and what works with linux. The p5b-delux has wifi, but again, i have no idea if it works with linux.

Graphics Card: You don't need SLI, really...
maniacmusician says 7600GT and this is good. I'd go a bit further and take 7600GTS.
Explaination:
There are the GT, GS, and GTS (GT > GTS > GS)
The difference between 7600gt and 7600gs is that gt is with DDR3 and gs with DDR2 and that gt is "factory overclocked". The GTS is a GS with DDR3, so the only difference between GT and GTS is the clock of the processor and memory. The price is significantly lower and both the GT and the GTS can be overclocked to pretty much the same speed. In short - you get the same thing for less money :)

Memory: DDR800 with nice timings. When using AMD timings are more important than MHz!!!

The rest is not very important... Just make sure not to get the crappiest things :)

and btw, I'd always stick with nVidia for both chipsets and GFX cards. It is just insanelly easier to make those work in linux, generally they "just work".

[Warpnow]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3189364&sku=MBM-680I-Q6600

That's a good deal on a core 2 quad.

http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=27793

Cheaper, by a lot, AMD X2 5600

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3163629&Sku=I69-2146%20H

Good value on complete system barebone.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2972067&Sku=A455-2129%20I

A value barebone. Personally, I don't game. I doubt I'd spend more than $500 on a pc. I'd get a good CPU/MB for $300ish, buy a cheap *** case + psu for $50, add in 2gb a ram for about $100 and buy a 250gb HD for $50. Total would however around $500. If I needed a DVD burner they sell for about $25 on the net.

Plus, I could dial the Cpu/MB down to about $150 and build a $350 pc and it would probably do me well. Currently running a p4 3.0 ghz wit 2gbs of ram. Built it like 3 years ago for $500 and my pc does pretty much anything I try to push out of it very fast.

[Extreme Coder]

Thanks a lot for your help, I'm sorry I didn't define an exact budget; since as said before here, the price of components in your countries would vary a lot from what's here. But what's expensive there stays expensive here :P


A price "range" or whatever is probably sufficient. "Cheap", "Moderate", and "All-out", for example.Hmm.. I'd say something between All-out and Moderate ;)


processor; Intel Core 2 Duo. I like the E6600. Hmm.. I wanted to try the AMD route (I never tried AMD before) but if you say so.. ;)

Motherboard; Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6...if you can't afford it, then GA-965P-DS3 I looked up this board, and it's too expensive :/ I haven't imagined a board that would be more expensive than any other part of the PC :P But what's so special about this board to make it so expensive? (even from the other board you mentioned, because they look very similar to me)

Graphics Card: SLI isn't really necessary. Best bang for your buck; eVGA GeForce 7600GT. If you want super duper performance, you could get something from the GeForce 8 series. I looked up this card, it sounds pretty good (and affordable ;) ) And I could add another one of these sometime later. But I will have to ask him if he wants something from the GeForce 8 series(even though I doubt he'd want one)

Memory: OCZ/Corsair DDR2800 would probably be the optimal choice. RAM is expensive. I hear a lot about Corsair being good for RAM, but how much should I add of it? 2 GB?

DVD: Doesn't really matter. Lite-on is good, as are Sony and Samsung. you could probably get a burner. As a matter of fact, I WAS asking for a burner. Sorry I wasn't clear :/

Hard drive: SATA2 (aka SATA3.0Gb/s) is your best bet. Capacities anywhere from 320-500GB are a good value. good manufacturers are Seagate, Western Digital, and even Samsung has been doing well lately. Thanks!

Processor : Amd is plenty bang for the buck. Look at the x2 series. You mean the Athlon 64 x2?

Motherboard : I use nvidia chipset, works good for everything accept running mac os x86 Are you talking about the nForce? And which model are you talking about?

Graphics Card : Half a year ago I would have said nvidia 7600gt, but now once I got my ati 1950pro that costs about the same (at least where I live), really good for gaming, and works flawlessly in linux. Skip dual, costs more than it's brings power. Believe me, the difference in performance between ATI on Linux and ATI on Windows using the same card is massive. While nVidia does have some difference, it's not as big as ATI's. But if something comes out of ATI's announcement of better drivers, then I'll think about it.

Memory: 2gb ddr2 800mhz Ok.

DVD: by nec, cheap and really reliable. I will see if Nec DVD burners are available here.

For me it finished on about 550 euro (5000 swedish krona)

Hey, that's my computer :grin:Something else I want to ask is would I need a cooling system, and of what type?

Thanks a lot maniacmusician and rejser!

[Extreme Coder]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...MBM-680I-Q6600 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3189364&sku=MBM-680I-Q6600)

That's a good deal on a core 2 quad.

http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog...m.asp?ID=27793 (http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=27793)

Cheaper, by a lot, AMD X2 5600

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...u=I69-2146%20H (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3163629&Sku=I69-2146%20H)

Good value on complete system barebone.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...=A455-2129%20I (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2972067&Sku=A455-2129%20I)

A value barebone. Personally, I don't game. I doubt I'd spend more than $500 on a pc. I'd get a good CPU/MB for $300ish, buy a cheap *** case + psu for $50, add in 2gb a ram for about $100 and buy a 250gb HD for $50. Total would however around $500. If I needed a DVD burner they sell for about $25 on the net.

Plus, I could dial the Cpu/MB down to about $150 and build a $350 pc and it would probably do me well. Currently running a p4 3.0 ghz wit 2gbs of ram. Built it like 3 years ago for $500 and my pc does pretty much anything I try to push out of it very fast.
Thanks, but AFAIK the websites you linked to don't ship worldwide (I live in Egypt). Thanks anyway!


Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon 64x2
Generally the conroes are faster, but are more expensive. I'd personally go for AMD 3800+ or 4200+. Those can be overclocked a lot and a nice performance/money wise. I'm really leaning for the AMD since as I've heard, they're not as expensive and give almost the same performance.

Motherboard: If you really want THE THING get a DFI Lan Party (expensive stuff though). Never heard of DFI before :/
for Conroe - Asus p5b. Note that there is a whole family of p5b mobos that are different and some are great while others are crap. As I recall p5b-delux was a good one. Also some of the models have some werid IDE controller that refuses to work in linux... Well, I think I should avoid that here as it's hard to get a specific model from a very similar range of products.
for AMD - I have Epox MF4 Ultra-3 (this is with nForce4, 100% linux friendly) and I'm happy with it, nice for clocking. Isn't the nForce 4 discontinued and replaced by the nForce 500 which was replaced by the nForce 600 series?(according to wikipedia)
A intell processor + a propper mobo for those are MUCH more expensive than a AMD + a propper mobo, so again, I'd stick with AMD.
If you need WIFI I can't help. I've never looked into wifi so i have no idea what works best and what works with linux. The p5b-delux has wifi, but again, i have no idea if it works with linux. No worries, I have no need for Wi-Fi.

Graphics Card: You don't need SLI, really...
maniacmusician says 7600GT and this is good. I'd go a bit further and take 7600GTS.
Explaination:
There are the GT, GS, and GTS (GT > GTS > GS)
The difference between 7600gt and 7600gs is that gt is with DDR3 and gs with DDR2 and that gt is "factory overclocked". The GTS is a GS with DDR3, so the only difference between GT and GTS is the clock of the processor and memory. The price is significantly lower and both the GT and the GTS can be overclocked to pretty much the same speed. In short - you get the same thing for less money :smile: Ok, thanks for the explanation! I will have to look on the price differences here, to see if it's worth it.

Memory: DDR800 with nice timings. When using AMD timings are more important than MHz!!! What do you mean?

The rest is not very important... Just make sure not to get the crappiest things :smile:

and btw, I'd always stick with nVidia for both chipsets and GFX cards. It is just insanelly easier to make those work in linux, generally they "just work". Yeah, unlike some other company cough*ATI*cough

Thanks to both of you!

[Alpha_toxic]

DFI's Lan Party series are every clocker's wet dream ;) You don't need anything like that if you don't intend to clock the hell out of the CPU and RAM, though


nForce 4 is old, but is "tested is battle" ;) This motherboard (mf4 ultra-3) is with AM2 socket and that is supposed to work with next generation of AMD CPUs, so this is good even upgrade-wise. Of course you can just as well get a newer mobo, if it has nforce chipset it will most likely work 100% under linux.

It seems that it is GST and not GTS... my bad

there is more to the RAM than MHz, "timings" are very important. This is, unfortunatelly, too long to explain properly. In short - lower timings are better. There is a tendency that AMD CPUs are more sensitive to the timings of the RAM than Intel CPUs, while Intel ones are more sensitive to the MHz. This whole thing will only matters if you intend to clock, though, and only if you really really want to squeeze everything out of the CPU-RAM-chipset combo that you have.

My HDD is Hitachi 250GB. Where I live the 250GB HDDs where the best bargain. I guess this will differ in other countries. Here everything new arrives with 50% more on the price tag...

a bit of warning: if you put a big cooler on an AM2 socket, either look for a cooler that comes with it's own plank, or get a plank from an older AMD mobo (this is what I did). By "plank" I mean the black square that surrounds the CPU
http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/252/socket_empty.jpg
I don't know how it is called in English
The default one in the AM2 socket is very weak and there have been some accidents with it snapping and coolers falling down, and when they fall, they fall on the GFX card... not pleasant at all...

[Extreme Coder]

Alpha_toxic: Thanks a lot the info!

Another of my friends said that I should add watercooling to the PC, but I have no idea. Should I have to add watercooling? And how expensive is it?

[Warpnow]

Its not that expensive (I've seen kits around $50) but its overkill. Unless you intend to overclock your rig won't get near that hot.

[afljafa]

Alpha_toxic: Thanks a lot the info!

Another of my friends said that I should add watercooling to the PC, but I have no idea. Should I have to add watercooling? And how expensive is it?

I wouldn`t bother - save it for the car.

Dont make the mistake of buying good kit and powering it with a rubbish power supply. Invest in a good quiet power supply.

[Fenryr]

Just a quick note on RAM chips...Kingston Memory comes with a couple of my favourite words attached..."Lifetime Guarrantee"...Keep your reciepts...*g*

[cdrw]

This is my very computer that I built on may-2007:

CPU: AMD X2 4800+
Mobo: ASUS M2N-E/AM2
RAM: A-DATA DDR2 667 1G x 4
Graphic: Sapphire ATI X1950GT
HDD: Seagate 320G
Misc: Multi-card reader
Transformer: ANTEC Earthwatts 500W
DVDRW: Aus DRW-1814BPB
Case: GET663/B ATX

Around US$770

Currently running Ubuntu Desktop 32-bit 7.04

[Extreme Coder]

Thanks everyone! You guys really helped out!

I will probably post here after I'm done with building it ;)

[maniacmusician]

The reason I didn't recommend AMD was because I heard your friend was a computer enthusiast. AMD is definitely more affordable for the average user, but for people that like getting a lot of performance out of their computer, Intel is the way to go right now. The AMD processors can't even compare with the Core 2 Duos for the same price...and that's just the basic truth right now.

I have nothing against AMD, they make good quality stuff. But for superior performance, Intel is really your best bet.

About the motherboard...the DQ-6 uses a more expensive southbridge chipset, and is just a superior board that will last you a long long time. However, it definitely is very expensive and a lot of people can't afford it. So Gigabyte created the DS-3, which still gives you pretty good quality for an affordable price. I'd say it's the best budget board out there. Basically, the DS-3 is good, the DQ-6 is really superior. Here are some ways in which it's better, to give you an idea:


- A better south bridge (the ICH8R), which offers some technical abilities that the ICH8 doesn't have.

- 2 PCI-Express x16 slots (the DS3 only has 1). This is where you insert high end stuff like video cards

- More SATAII slots, and better support for RAID SATA arrays and complicated stuff like that

- A better audio chipset

- twice as many USB connectors

- Firewire capabilities

Alternatively, you can also buy the GA-N680SLI-DQ6, which is better than both of the other ones I mentioned. It has significant advantages:

-Higher bus speeds (1333MHz as opposed to 1066MHz...newer processors will probably use this frequency. So this board can be reused with a better processor if necessary)

- A better north bridge (nvidia nForce 680i SLI). This allows for more options on the graphics end, in this case. He can buy a really good nVidia card right now (like a 7600GT or something from the 8 series), and then he can buy another one of that same card later when he has more money, and put them in SLI. What this means is that the two cards get connected to one another and can use each other's resources. They basically share the load of the computer and graphics performance goes way up.

- More LAN connections

That's a really good board and it is really aimed at gamers, for the most part. It's very tweakable and offers options that are usually popular with gamers

So there's the shakedown on the motherboards and why I recommended Intel.

[maniacmusician]

In addition, if you can wait until July 22nd, you can get the upcoming E6750 processor, which is actually going to be really nice.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/25/intels-core-2-duo-e6750-revealed-benchmarked/

[%hMa@?b<C]

bang for your buck? $100 will net you a dual core AMD opteron. cant get any better than that!

[Extreme Coder]

bang for your buck? $100 will net you a dual core AMD opteron. cant get any better than that!
Are the processors you're talking about any good? Because IMO they sound like a scam or something :P


Thanks for the extra info maniacmusician. He's not THAT much into overclocking though (he had a bad experience with melting a processor :P ) but if he gets more for the same price, then let it be Intel then ;)
I talked to my friend, and his idea is that the mobo should at maximum cost 190-200$. BUT he said he can spend up to 400$ on a mobo IF the features justify the price. and IMO they do ;) I just hope that motherboard won't go out of fashion in just 3 months or something :/
In the page about the new processor you pointed, the comments say that there's going to be a price drop of C2D processors about the time that one will be released. Is that true?

PS. Why are you still a Feisty Fawn Testing user?

[maniacmusician]

Are the processors you're talking about any good? Because IMO they sound like a scam or something :P


Thanks for the extra info maniacmusician. He's not THAT much into overclocking though (he had a bad experience with melting a processor :P ) but if he gets more for the same price, then let it be Intel then ;)
I talked to my friend, and his idea is that the mobo should at maximum cost 190-200$. BUT he said he can spend up to 400$ on a mobo IF the features justify the price. and IMO they do ;) I just hope that motherboard won't go out of fashion in just 3 months or something :/
In the page about the new processor you pointed, the comments say that there's going to be a price drop of C2D processors about the time that one will be released. Is that true?

PS. Why are you still a Feisty Fawn Testing user?
I guess I never bothered to change it! I'm a Gutsy Gibbon tester now.

About a possible price drop...well, if the E6750 is really going to be $180 dollars, then yes, it probably is true. They just had a price drop a month or so ago, I believe, so another one wouldn't be totally out of the question. If you're wondering why the price drops are happening, it's because (1) they're constantly putting out newer processors and (2) they want to compete with AMDs prices, which are very low compared to theirs.

And AMD processors are certainly very good. You can get good processors for lower amounts of money. If you're looking for a low or mid-end processor, then AMD is certainly the way to go. But if you want a high performance processor, like an E6600 or an E6700, getting an AMD processor that can match it won't be so easy or cheap. AMD's processors just aren't as powerful as Intel's right now, and that's a fact. They used to be way better until Intel came out with their Core line of processors

[%hMa@?b<C]

Are the processors you're talking about any good? Because IMO they sound like a scam or something :P


Thanks for the extra info maniacmusician. He's not THAT much into overclocking though (he had a bad experience with melting a processor :P ) but if he gets more for the same price, then let it be Intel then ;)
I talked to my friend, and his idea is that the mobo should at maximum cost 190-200$. BUT he said he can spend up to 400$ on a mobo IF the features justify the price. and IMO they do ;) I just hope that motherboard won't go out of fashion in just 3 months or something :/
In the page about the new processor you pointed, the comments say that there's going to be a price drop of C2D processors about the time that one will be released. Is that true?

PS. Why are you still a Feisty Fawn Testing user?

I have the same processor. It runs well, overclocks well, and is all out a great processor. I bought it from newegg about 6 months ago
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103588