Gutsy Feature Plan

[racoq]

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-June/000304.html

any comments? Is this what you expected from the Gutsy Release?

[Ultra Magnus]

enabling compiz/beryl as the default windows manager is pretty gutsy

[RudolfMDLT]

The mobile thing really has me excited! though I am a gadget freak!

[FuturePilot]

Wow! This sounds great! I was just thinking about what the new features in Gutsy would be. So does this mobile thing mean you can install if on you phone if you wanted to?

[PartisanEntity]

We are aiming for Ubuntu to be one of the first distributions to ship
the newly merged Compiz and Beryl projects (compcomm/OpenCompositing);
and enable it as the default window manager on systems with a supported
combination of hardware and drivers.

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

[Tundro Walker]

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

I know you probably know this, but I'll remind you that when Microsoft rolls out their new OS', they have every single bell, whistle & phaser set to "maximum"...because (quoting Stargate SG-1) "people like weapons set to maximum..."

However, I agree with your sentiment. I'd much rather start with superfluous things, like Compiz/Beryl eye-candy, switched off, and gradually turn them on, rather than vice-versa. However, essential things, like it noticing when I try to play an MP3 and don't have the drivers installed..yeah, I'd like that on by default (LOL!)

[racoq]

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

I am willing to agree with you on this one. I have a P3 800, and it eats much of my hardware resources when i've tested using beryl/compiz. Worst than that if i want to play even a low end FPS like AssaultCube, it is rather slow down by beryl/compiz, the same happens watching DVD/Mpeg4 videos.

I think that such feature should be disabled by default, as it was in feisty. And if they want them the first time after installation ask the user if he/she wants do enable desktop effects.

[euler_fan]

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

I'll second that. I nice way way to turn Beryl/Compiz on and off would be an outstanding feature though. Maybe that'll be in 8.02 :)

[The Noble]

I'm glad thaht they are going for gold on this release; feisty was nice and fast, but it was missing a lot of the upfront polish that has been presend in previous releases. If none of the features get deferred and we don't have any serious problems, I think that this release could well be the biggest yet (besides Dapper, maybe).

On the decision of implimenting Compiz/Beryl: I think it is a wonderful idea because the current directiong of the Ubuntu desktop is being left in the dust by most of the other distributions. This could allow much more leniency for the art team to really shine this time through. It would be nice is the install CD had an option for only installing the regular Metacity desktop. Maybe even having two different ubuntu-desktop metapackages would relieve the stress that many may face during the install. Whatever happens, I think it will be awsome.

[euler_fan]

It would be nice is the install CD had an option for only installing the regular Metacity desktop. Maybe even having two different ubuntu-desktop metapackages would relieve the stress that many may face during the install.

I could support that as an alternative to the "enable Beryl by default if possible" approach. It seems like a fair compromise. I can just imagine someone installing Gusty and discovering that Beryl/Compiz is not for them and spending the kind of time is seems many spend turning Beryl/Compiz on to turn it off.

[macogw]

I am willing to agree with you on this one. I have a P3 800, and it eats much of my hardware resources when i've tested using beryl/compiz. Worst than that if i want to play even a low end FPS like AssaultCube, it is rather slow down by beryl/compiz, the same happens watching DVD/Mpeg4 videos.

I think that such feature should be disabled by default, as it was in feisty. And if they want them the first time after installation ask the user if he/she wants do enable desktop effects.

But it says it will only be default if your hardware can take it. If you have a P3 800, that sounds like "let's NOT turn this on" territory. I'm thinking only systems with 512mb and a Pentium 4 or newer will get it by default. At least, that sounds reasonable to me.

Uh, why are you guys suggesting that it's hard to turn Beryl/Compiz off? You just unclick the "Desktop Effects" button, and it's off until you turn it back on, no matter how many reboots you do. When did that become difficult?

I was expecting more new stuff. It seems it's just "finish what we ran out of time for in Feisty" since it's "finish restricted drivers manager" "finish that desktop effects thing" and then a few updates. Feisty got wireless roaming working for a nice chunk of users (though NetworkManager is only compatible with certain drivers...if yours isn't one of them, try emailing the dev for the driver and asking them to implement WEXT).

[Polygon]

We are aiming for Ubuntu to be one of the first distributions to ship
the newly merged Compiz and Beryl projects (compcomm/OpenCompositing);
and enable it as the default window manager on systems with a supported
combination of hardware and drivers.


they better make that optional and easy to disable. I dont want compiz/beryl on my comp!

edit: nvm they say you can disable it.

[Kimm]

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

I agree, this actually puts me off Ubuntu a bit... but I guess I can just disable it.

[insane_alien]

This is pretty close to what i expected, we're moving towards another LTS edition (Gutsy +1) so this distro can slap on the polish and the devs can spend all their time making Gutsy +1 the rock solid uber-stable beast that i imagine it will be.

[borris.morris]

Oh, the Gutsy +1 will be amazing!! I think that the mobile manager is like a hot sync type thingy.

[psyopper]

I think these are all great ideas, but they are what I have come to expect of the great developers and contributors to Ubuntu. Sadly this garnered a "this is exactly what I expected vote" even though I am really excited to see the progress.

In other words, I have learned to expect great things from the Ubuntu devs and have not been disappointed yet!!

I am really looking forward to the new X and no more config! Hopefully they have a system worked out that handles fallback well! And hopefully it doesn't turn into a bloated Windows registry...

[samjh]

The only thing I don't like is the Compiz/Beryl thing. It should:

1. Be off by default.
2. Use an auto-detect feature to turn it on only if hardware is capable enough, and inform the user as such.
3. Have a user-input dialog to turn it on or off during installation.

Turning it on by default is not a good idea IMHO, because most people do not need it, do not look for those features, and some applications are not stable or incompatible with Compiz/Beryl.

[racoq]

But it says it will only be default if your hardware can take it.


not really...


Systems which do not support compositing, or those with it disabled by
user option, will use the existing metacity window manager.


I don't see in that text, what you said earlier. I see if you have restricted drivers capable of a minimum acceleration in any graphic card it will be turned by default, even if it is on an P2, without asking you, and you will have to deactivate it yourself. And yes i do have a good accelerated graphic card.
And what even if i had a p4, and i did not wanted to enable it by default?

Shouldn't the system politely ask me if i want to enable it?

I think so!

[grahams]

Looks like a good plan, however I would like to request that functional suspend and hibernate is supported in Gutsy for all common laptops. Without this ubuntu can't be used successfully on work laptops.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Gutsy is gutsy, but not radical. I like radical. Other than Xorg 7.3, and Compiz/Beryl, there's nothing really exciting. I wish there was more...maybe even so much as a new filesystem.

[Erunno]

I wish there was more...maybe even so much as a new filesystem.

Which one?

[eXisor]

Hmmm. No delta/patch based updates? So Gutsy will still feature 'bandwidth wastage by design'?

Please, please, devs, say it isn't so?

(I thought delta updates was planned for gutsy, but I don't see it on the dropped list).

If so, colour me majorly disappointed, and a bit disillusioned too.

It can't be ubuntu to waste bandwidth
.

[Johnsie]

Fors me Xorg seems like the only interesting update. Wasn't compiz-by-default supposed to be a feature of feisty?

[yagood]

Actually, it's more than I expected! Compiz Fusion included by default, fallback mechanism for graphics card configuration failures (I've been configuring XGL for a few days now so I know how much such feature is needed...). Although I use Gnome, I will happily take a look at KDE 4 rc 2 if it comes as close as being in the official repositories. Also Xorg/Gnome updates are always welcome

Overall great list, this is going to be very exciting release!

[%hMa@?b<C]

looks like I may switch from ubuntu, beryl/compiz by default. who wants to enable bloat by default and isolate users with slower boxes, NOT ME.

[yagood]

looks like I may switch from ubuntu, beryl/compiz by default. who wants to enable bloat by default and isolate users with slower boxes, NOT ME.

...or you could just uncheck the appropriate option somewhere in the menu:


Systems which do not support compositing, or those with it disabled by
user option, will use the existing metacity window manager.

[Gargamella]

the mobile plan is awesome exciting

[smoker]

it's about what i was expecting, but am looking forward to it's release:-)

[ThinkBuntu]

I think it's about time for another LTS...

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Which one?

Doesn't matter as long as it is not EXT3...whatever is best.

[FuturePilot]

I think it's about time for another LTS...
+1
I like Dapper, but everything is quickly getting really old:(

[tcpip4lyfe]

I am not sure I like this idea, I am not a huge fan of BerylCopmpiz, it slows down my laptop and is not really a useful feature, just eye candy. IMO it is always best to select features that are not system intensive as defaults and allow the user to manually turn on more bells and whistles if they want to do so. Otherwise everything else sounds fine.

I agree as well.

[amlucent23]

Doesn't matter as long as it is not EXT3...whatever is best.

I was expecting to see some support for ZFS, but I know there are still a slew of problems with it but they are saying they will be worked out by the time gusty comes out. At least have the option of doing ZFS on non boot drives. How is ext3COW coming along lately?

Personally, i dont have a problem with compiz/bery by default. when these two projects merge it will alleviate a lot of problems also as long as they make it as easy to turn off as it was to turn on in feisty I think its a good idea. Also it sounds like if your hardware cant handle it it will automatically not be installed. nice.

[Erunno]

I was expecting to see some support for ZFS, but I know there are still a slew of problems with it but they are saying they will be worked out by the time gusty comes out. At least have the option of doing ZFS on non boot drives. How is ext3COW coming along lately?

I doubt that the licensing problems surrounding the CDDL and GPL will be solved until Gutsy and even if Sun decides to release ZFS under the GPL 3 alongside OpenSolaris I've read that there probably would be resistance from Kernel developers to include it in the mainline kernel due to design incompatibilities (see: Reiser4).

On a related note, I've always wondered why distros point out package updates for a new release as it would be some "Hot New Stuff". That's something I simply except from every distribution and the work is done upstream anyway. I'm ususally more interested in distro-specific developments.

[forrestcupp]

About the whole Compiz/Fusion by default thing, you guys are really jumping the gun on this. What they wrote about that is a little ambiguous. From what they wrote, it is possible that there may be an option to disable it during installation.

I think people should wait until these things are clearer before they start planning to switch distros.

And about Beryl being nothing but eye candy, that isn't true, either. I use Beryl for its usability more than its eye candy. The transparent windows and zooming are very useful tools.

[weird_c00kie]

Like forrestcupp, I think people are going a bit overboard with the Compiz/Fusion thing. Personally, I could wet my pants just thinking about it. I'm as simple a user as you're likely to find running Linux, but I like my eye-candy. No, I love my eye-candy. I think having all those mouth-watering special effects I never tire of installed and enabled by default is awesome.
Having said that, if you don't like them, you just disable it.
I'm looking at it this way... Whenever I have to format and reinstall WIndows, until I install my monitor and video card drivers, everything is sluggish. Once I get them running though, it's perfectly fine. This is kind of the opposite. Your computer might be sluggish until you disable the special effects.

If Ubuntu is to appeal to the 'common public', then it needs stuff like that. What's the point of showing a Windows user an interface which, for all intents and purposes looks almost exactly like Windows to them? This way you can install Ubuntu and turn to your bedazzled friend next to you and go... "Does Windows do this for you out of the box?"
:D

[kevmaster]

I couldn't wait until October so I decided to upgrade to Ubuntu Gutsy (http://kevin.vanzonneveld.net/techblog/article/upgrade_to_ubuntu_gutsy_tribe_3_alpha/) Tribe 3 ALPHA and to live-blog the whole experience. So if you're interested take a look:
http://kevin.vanzonneveld.net/techblog/article/upgrade_to_ubuntu_gutsy_tribe_3_alpha/