the day dell refused to sell a computer

[cosborn72]

UPDATE: I have talked with Dell, and they are going to sell the computer to me. The issue had less to do with the OS and more to do with a mis-inderstanding with the original order taker.
I did have to order it through the home section of their order department, but I was able to place the order with a business card and received my tax exemption.

Despite the small bump, Dell's customer service has been good, and I plan on buying more computers from them in the future. Assuming they continue to embrace open source!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


I had a surreal experience with Dell today.

My boss asked me to order a new computer for our small, non-profit business. Wanting to support Dell in their decision to sell computers with Ubuntu installed, I decided to order one.

First, I talked to a small business representative, who informed me that I could not order one of the Ubuntu-based computers through the small business department. I had to go through the "home and home office" department.

I called the Home office department. I asked the representative if I could buy one of the ubuntu computers for my company. She said (and I quote), "these Dell computers are designed for personal use only, as long as you use it for personal use, you can purchase one."[-X

So I lied and said I would....

Next, I tried to buy it on our business credit card. They would have none of that. She told me that I had to buy it through a personal card. Now, as a non-proft, our business does not pay sales tax (10% in Tennessee). Had I bought it with my own card, I would have had to pay tax (~$90), which my company would not have reimbursed me for. So.....no Dell today.](*,)

I really wanted to support Dell and I am just blown away that they would REFUSE MY MONEY because I was buying it to use for a business. What company goes around telling its customers how they can use their products? What business model does that fall under?

More importantly, are they really supporting Ubuntu and Linux? They didn't seem too supportive to me.

[blah blah blah]

Supporting a small business must be different from supporting a home user.

[Spike-X]

What company goes around telling its customers how they can use their products?

Where have you been for the last few years? Bought a DVD lately?

[the.dark.lord]

Where have you been for the last few years? Bought a DVD lately?

:lolflag: That's really annoying, isn't it?

cosborn, why don't you get a System76?

[FuturePilot]

So why are they for personal use only? Do they not have faith in Linux?:(

[PatrickMay16]

Sucks... Oh well, sucks for Dell too, since I'm sure System76 won't refuse your money, right? Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

[steven8]

So why are they for personal use only? Do they not have faith in Linux?:(

The thing to do is call and see if any of the windows-based computers are for home use only, or if they can all be purchased for either. If they can all be purchased for either, ask for a reason.

[yabbadabbadont]

Submit your story to Slashdot or Digg. If it gets picked up, you will probaby find out that the "peons" manning the phones "misspoke" the official policy. That's what happened the last time when someone was denied the ability to purchase the extended hardware warranty.

[Al Fairclough]

Yes, I agree with yabbadabbadont . Somebody has their priorities backwards. Talk with a manager and ask why Dell is refusing to sell you a computer. If that doesn't work, go over his or her head. Remember, crap always flows downhill. ;)

[macogw]

It's probably because they want you to buy the more expensive Novell SLED workstations if you're a business.

[LookTJ]

Leave a post on IdeaStorm.

[Sp4cedOut]

I think blah blah blah has it right, it has to do with the warranty and support. Let's say the computer breaks, for whatever reason, the small business vs home office license becomes a big deal.

Second, as you said, if you bought it with your business credit card you would not have to pay taxes, if there is one thing the government does well, it makes sure it gets all it tax money. Imagine if the IRS is looking through Dell's records and notices a computer purchased for private use, with a tax-free business credit card. That's not good for any party involved.

Dell is practicing the time honored business tradition of CYA: Cover Your ***

[eentonig]

... Imagine if the IRS is looking through Dell's records and notices a computer purchased for private use, with a tax-free business credit card. That's not good for any party involved.

*

Where is the law against that? As long as taxes have been paid, they should not care

[Tundro Walker]

That's gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Didn't they think that perhaps some businesses would want to order a few to, oh I don't know, TRY THEM OUT, to see if they want to switch more of the business computers over to Ubuntu Dells?

Crazy.

[ButteBlues]

It's probably because they want you to buy the more expensive Novell SLED workstations if you're a business.
I wasn't aware they were selling those yet.

[Skrynesaver]

Living in Ireland Dell aren't willing to sell me a pre-loaded Ubuntu machine either. I hope they are looking on the initial take up as a test base to see how things go, what support problems they encounter ...

[fuscia]

+1 for system76.

[cosborn72]

Yes, I agree with yabbadabbadont . Somebody has their priorities backwards. Talk with a manager and ask why Dell is refusing to sell you a computer. If that doesn't work, go over his or her head. Remember, crap always flows downhill. ;)

Yeah, I will try that. I suspect that it is an issue of support. Which dosen't matter- I've been using Ubuntu for two years and the forums have been all the support I need.

It's just frustrating...I specifically went to Dell because I wanted to show support for them offering linux.

[smoker]

I really wanted to support Dell and I am just blown away that they would REFUSE MY MONEY because I was buying it to use for a business. What company goes around telling its customers how they can use their products? What business model does that fall under?

More importantly, are they really supporting Ubuntu and Linux? They didn't seem too supportive to me.

i would write a letter to the head of dell responsible for these decisions (i would imagine you'll get a list of contacts at their website), and ask for a reason why this is so. you could 'hint' this was a trial, and could've lead to many more orders if successful. if dell think they are going to lose out on substantial orders they may change their mind.

on the other hand, it is nothing remotely to do with them what you use the computer for, and how you want to pay for it. if they say it is a support issue, then tell them to shove it.:D

[steven8]

The office my wife works in just uses a small Compac home computer. I guarentee they didn't buy it as a business PC.

[Zannax]

"... as long as you use it for personal use, you can purchase one."


Maybe they think "Ubuntu" is a sort of an illegal drug...
They feel a tad guilty for selling it to you, maybe they're afraid you give it to your little brother and that he starts using "Ubuntu" too, and he gets hooked... Who knows?
:-D

[NumberOne]

I would suspect that this is due to the deal with M$. You can sell computers with Ubuntu, but not to our bread and butter customers (businesses). Just a guess!!! ;)

[jsmidt]

Dell has given the most pathetic support for Linux computers I could imagine.

***They complain that people may not "vote with their wallet" then they won't even support the very people who want to buy their computers and try to vote with their wallet***

Really Dell, do you want to sell Linux computers or is this a PR stunt?

[sholsinger]

Normally, I would venture to say that this is due to the fact that when you buy a computer for a "small business" you get "domestic" tech support. Whereas if you buy one for home or home-office use, you get "outsourced" tech support (bangalore). Though I suppose that since software/os support is through Canonical it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. That of course could be due to Dell being forced to drink from the teat of M$.

2¢


Maybe they think "Ubuntu" is a sort of an illegal drug...
They feel a tad guilty for selling it to you, maybe they're afraid you give it to your little brother and that he starts using "Ubuntu" too, and he gets hooked... Who knows?
:-D

Hello, welcome to Ubuntu Anonymous, please stand up and say your name and tell us how long you've been a "user".

Hi, my name is Steve, and I've been a user since October 2006.

[Technoviking]

They also would not sell to educational organizations.

Mike

[dugggrrr]

My Dell UK site clearly shows an Ubuntu screen on a PC and the text, "Dell offers a wide range of innovative Linux business solutions..."

Really?

[interval1066]

You could always try something I read about a few months ago; a guy bought a new laptop and when the EULA for Windows came up he took pictures of the entire process as he denied the user agreement and then proceeded to wipe XP and install Linux. He then took his proof of his refusal to use Windows to the store he bought it from and after some problems got his Microsoft tax refunded.

I wasn't so fortunate; I never got a EULA agreement popup in my last machine, so I ate the tax. Apparently the ability to agree to use Windows is a hit-miss kind of deal.

[smoker]

They also would not sell to educational organizations.

isn't this a type of discrimination? if dell turned round and said they were not going to sell to 'this' or 'that' minority group there would be an outcry!

they sell pc's, why are they refusing sales? they are going to drive people to use their compeditors:(

[moxfyre]

I had a surreal experience with Dell today.

My boss asked me to order a new computer for our small, non-profit business. Wanting to support Dell in their decision to sell computers with Ubuntu installed, I decided to order one.

First, I talked to a small business representative, who informed me that I could not order one of the Ubuntu-based computers through the small business department. I had to go through the "home and home office" department.
.
.
.

Hi cosborn72, Dell is very crafty about pricing their systems differently for home/business/employees/affiliates. The prices are constantly changing and can vary substantially with respect to nearly identical systems.

I have found that if you order *via the website* rather than by phone, they do not check your "eligibility" for different types of purchases at all. I was able to get an "employee and affiliate" deal on a system for personal, home use! Check out my slightly lengthier response to your slashdot submission: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=239059&cid=19580271

Hope that helps! (Also note that, because of discounts and promotions, it may actually be cheaper to order a Windows-based system and then just put Ubuntu on it, as was the case for me.)

[purdy hate machine]

Consider this a lucky escape. A wise man once said...
Well.. If that’s their sales pitch, imagine what it’s like in the complaints department!

[Zannax]

Hi, my name is Steve, and I've been a user since October 2006.

My name is Stefano and I got hooked on Ubuntu since May 2007. :)

[NoDough]

I wasn't aware they were selling those yet.

They've been selling SLED workstations and Red Hat servers for years now.

[gfarrow]

I didn't like the configuration of their Ubuntu boxes (I prefer to support AMD) so I wanted to get a "freedos" box and then just install Ubuntu on it myself. I noticed that under the home user section you had to take a monitor, which I didn't want, so I looked around their site some more and found some freedos boxes under small business. They were the exact same boxes except that the options and pricing were different. Under small business I could select "no monitor", and I had a different choice of graphics cards, etc.

In any event, I was logged on with my business account when I ordered the box from the small business section of their site but they allowed me to purchase it on my personal credit card and ship it to my home address, no questions asked. Seems similar to what you were attempting but in reverse.

[Redcard]

This does not surprise me at all.

Dell's personal line is not for business use. They even say so when they sell the computer. In fact, even if you buy from their business side, their workstations are not supported with Server based OS's on them.

For example, one time we were installing for test purposes W2K3 Server on a Dell workstation. You cannot find driver software from Dell for the Server OSs. Dell has rebranded everything as "Dell xyz" , so it's not easy to find the driver software.

I called Dell up, and was told that it was not licensed to use that machine with a server class OS.. that I should purchase a server class machine to receive server class drivers.

So, the same thing is going on here. Dell actually has hardware restrictions. Businesses that are not at a home/personal use MUST go through their small business or medium/large business site. In fact, because of commissioning, a personal seller who sells to a business can lose their job for doing so. That's stealing both a commission and a lead from a business sales guy.. and we all know that the business sales people are bringing in major contracts.

So.. that's why he couldn't do it. It's a personal laptop. It's not eligible for business sales.

[tripwire45]

What a long, strange trip it's been. :rolleyes:

[interval1066]

Hope that helps! (Also note that, because of discounts and promotions, it may actually be cheaper to order a Windows-based system and then just put Ubuntu on it, as was the case for me.)

You're going to go ahead and pay the Microsoft tax huh? How is that cheaper?

[king0lag]

I have this problem with CompUSA's website, I have money, it wont let me spend it?!?! Whhhy!

(off topic sorry)

[Syke]

If you want a very pro-non-profit Linux systems builder, check out ZaReason (http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php). The company was built on FOSS principles and you will find a more solid computer and real service.

[daynah]

Just last Friday I basically got in a b-fight on the phone with a Dell rep. The person I chatted in IM was overly cordial, but I'm used to IM tech support being like that (it's easy to copy and paste a complaint). The first phone person I talked to was very nice and sweet. But this lady was horrid!

First, I wanted to order an Ubuntu computer. But I also wanted to see if I could get the 3 months interest free (ps, you can't get the 6 months interest free SIMPLY because it has Ubuntu on it. The same computer with Windows on it, automatically gets you interest free). I applied for it, and didn't qualify. She suggested that I get it with no operating system, to save money, but that since it wouldn't have Ubuntu, I would qualify for the 6 months interest free. Fantastic! I know how to install Ubuntu, that works fine with me.

Go through installing blah blah blah. She starts trying to upsell me... Why don't you want a 9 cell? Umm... because I don't want a 9 cell. Why don't you want a better graphics card, what if you want to play a video game? Umm... because I have a desktop, this is just my laptop. And I tell her plain OUT, "Ma'am, I made the computer on the website. I am very tech savvy. I know exactly what I want." Why don't you want a laptop case? Because, as we've discussed before, I HAD a laptop, it broke, thuslyness, I already HAVE a laptopcase!

So I'm already ticked. She orders it... and then I realize she never confirmed the 6 months no interest. I ask her about it... "Oh you can't get that with no operating system. Windows only."

HOLY COW! That was the WHOLE POINT of switching from Ubuntu to no OS! What... what was going on in that empty head of yours?!

So I say cancel. Just cancel. I am far, far too angry at this lady to get her get this commission.

I've done phone sales before, so I know that she does need a reason for any order cancelled. She asks and I say, "I didn't understand that I'd have to buy an operating system." Total lie, but I know it's an option on her computer.

She starts trying to explain it to me. She starts trying to explain how easy Windows is. If I get Windows, I can get that 6 months interest free. I'm furious. She refuses to cancel the order. When I say cancel my order, I want it canceled. At this point, it could be because I stubbed my toe and I see that as a bad sign from the Spagetti Monster!

Anyway, a day later I check my order status to make sure she actually canceled... turns out she actually didn't even order no OS, she ordered Windows, and wasn't going to give me the 6 months no interest.

Mindboggling. Was she even listening to me?

[Sir Reality]

Did anyone see "Who killed the electric car?". It almost sounds like Dell is doing exactly what GM did...
1) Prentend to provide an innovative product
2) Make it extremely difficult for anyone to actually purchase said product
3) Discontinue product and claim that there was a "lack of demand" (regardless of actual amount of demand)
4) Partners in combustion engine/oil industry (or in this case, MS) do not have to compete with innovative ideas/products

-Not that I necessarily think this is what Dell is doing. but perhaps something to look out for....

[wyley.r]

It didn't look like anyone had yet created an IdeaStorm post for this, so here you are:

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/68620/Make_Dell_Ubuntu_PCs_available_to_businesses_and_n onprofits

Here's a similar one, already with some support:

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67113

Click away!

[Frihet]

I'm not surprised. I tried to buy a Dell laptop a few months ago (after the release of Vista). I told them I would take a machine with XP Home (for which I might have occasional use), but preferred FreeDos. I was told no; I had to take Vista. To be fair, the same thing happened at HP. So, I bought a little Toshiba U205 with XP Home. It even came with XP media. I blew the image away, repartitioned, put XP in 20g, and installed Feisty in the 60G remaining. It's a very nice box.

I expect my computer to work for me, not the WIPO Mob, so Vista is a deal breaker from here on out. End the end, I think that attitude will win the day. If they won't sell you what you want, find someone who will.

[daynah]

Did anyone see "Who killed the electric car?". It almost sounds like Dell is doing exactly what GM did...
1) Prentend to provide an innovative product
2) Make it extremely difficult for anyone to actually purchase said product
3) Discontinue product and claim that there was a "lack of demand" (regardless of actual amount of demand)
4) Partners in combustion engine/oil industry (or in this case, MS) do not have to compete with innovative ideas/products

-Not that I necessarily think this is what Dell is doing. but perhaps something to look out for....


That's very, very, interesting. So, in the end, it could all be, not MS's doing, but be supported by Microsoft?

[nymphaeles]

It sounds like Dell has a PR problem. I would talk to a manager and get his name along with his response. The world may need to know what Dell's official stance on this issue.

[david.ross@wolfeon.com]

I had a surreal experience with Dell today.


I'm sorry you had such trouble with Dell. I work at a non-profit and do order computers from HP. They give me a discount since I'm ordering for a non-profit. Yes, most of the computers are tested with Linux, Novell sled to be exact.

I lost faith in Dell when the business rep kept trying to upsell me for all my business needs, same with CDW. I went to HP and was amazed at the time of my order. I requested what I needed on the website, by phone, or by email to get a quote in a few minutes.

Will I ever order Dell? Ever? NO! Hell No!

I recommend you give HP a call, their business line is excellent for use with Linux.
Order the computers with FreeDOS, they ARE cheaper than the windows equiv. They CLEARLY take off money if you select freedos vs windows. They are the SAME computer, NOT some "open source pc".

HP++

[lbound]

Well, to be fair, SUSE is more expensive for a reason.....it includes business level support.

[ScotchontheRocks]

I just contacted my Dell Business Rep and he confirmed that Dell does not sell Ubuntu-based machines for business use. He says businesses may purchase machines with "an open-source OS or FreeDOS". :(

[lbound]

Have them define "OpenSource" :-)

[mike999999]

Isn't Ubuntu an "Open Source O/S"?

What were your options?

[Benbow]

It can get worse, many years ago I worked for a (then) national company who's local Birmingham office persisted in informing prospective customers that "they were not taking on any new customers at the moment".
I gave up and left them shortly afterwards and the company went to the wall about a year later. I am English but it can happen anywhere (apparently)!!

[newbie2]

I just contacted my Dell Business Rep and he confirmed that Dell does not sell Ubuntu-based machines for business use. He says businesses may purchase machines with "an open-source OS or FreeDOS". :(

"have a dell dude"


Although the word has a seemingly indeterminate etymology, it originally meant a city person in the country. For example, was a city person who bought a ranch and was trying to learn how to run it, knowing almost nothing about outdoor life or ranching.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

:p:-P

[ThinkBuntu]

The reads/views on this post have gone through the roof since it got Slashdotted.

[dptxp]

The reads/views on this post have gone through the roof since it got Slashdotted.

Someone in Dell is going to be fired in 24 hours.

[Atomic Dog]

Someone in Dell is going to be fired in 24 hours.

Doubt it. Dell can do whatever they want. If they do not want to sell Ubuntu machines to businesses, they don't have to. Who is going to force them?

Think about it from their standpoint, how soon would it be before somebody calls saying they can't join their new Ubuntu computer to a domain?

It's too bad they won't sell to businesses, but it's their company and their choice.

[Rexbron!]

Doubt it. Dell can do whatever they want. If they do not want to sell Ubuntu machines to businesses, they don't have to. Who is going to force them?

No one can force them per say, but this is just bad publicity and that has worked with Dell in the past.


Think about it from their standpoint, how soon would it be before somebody calls saying they can't join their new Ubuntu computer to a domain?

Umm, point them to existing resourses and/or tell them that commercial support is provided by Canonical and was offered when the machine was purhased?

[ThinkBuntu]

In the last hour this post's reads/views have gone from 3,000 to over 8,000

[timcredible]

I applaud you trying to buy from vendors that support linux. That's why I buy HP PCs and printer/scanner/copiers, lacie external drives and dvd burners and nvidia video cards. If Dell won't truly support linux, buy an HP - they are the best company when it comes to printer drivers for linux.

[soul_rebel]

They will sell you a latitude N, maybe. Supported for business, with no OS.

[bobbocanfly]

The reads/views on this post have gone through the roof since it got Slashdotted.

Exact same thing happened when i put the Ubuntu = Genuine Windows thread up on Slashdot. In about 6 hours it gained 6 pages and its on 85 thousand page views now. Slashdot is FUN!

[ThinkBuntu]

Exact same thing happened when i put the Ubuntu = Genuine Windows thread up on Slashdot. In about 6 hours it gained 6 pages and its on 85 thousand page views now. Slashdot is FUN!
What's funny is comparing this post's views to other posts with only 60 replies or so.

[tripwire45]

I just contacted my Dell Business Rep and he confirmed that Dell does not sell Ubuntu-based machines for business use. He says businesses may purchase machines with "an open-source OS or FreeDOS". :(I wonder if this is part of the "buy off" Dell arranged with Microsoft. As long as Dell just sells Ubuntu to home users, it doesn't compete with the Windows corporate desktop market and thus is no real threat.

[erimar77]

The problem also extends into higher education. I must use the Premier website to order and they also do not offer Ubuntu computers.

I've created a Dell Ideastorm page for myself, I propose others should do the same if they wish to push the issue further.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/68454/Ubuntu_Dells_for_Premier

[trinaryouroboros]

:lolflag: That's really annoying, isn't it?

cosborn, why don't you get a System76?

I second that notion.

[wh0rd]

This is by far the most ridiculous decision Dell has made. Even when linux gets support, it really doesn't get support. Ubuntu should have alternative competitive vendors, that should straighten Dell out from playing their silly games. I hope HP adopts Ubuntu, in my experience their hardware is so much better for the money.

http://system76.com/

[dhruva023]

never order dell by phone,

i had very bad experience.

the person on the phon was telling me that my discount cupan is invalid. using the same cupan i order my computer through website, it worked great.

[Soybean]

If it makes anyone feel better, Dell did the same thing with Vista when it was released. They wouldn't sell a system with Vista to a business user at first.

Dell is looking at Ubuntu as a way to expand their Linux offerings to home users. Business customers have been able to get a Dell with Red Hat preinstalled for many years now. I suspect that they want their business users to keep using those systems, that they've been selling for years, rather than switching to something new and untested. I also suspect that if you were to poll Dell's business customers, the majority agree with that position.

[misconfiguration]

Dell doesn't offer Linux support they openly state that it's up to the 'Linux community' to provide support. It does suck that they wouldn't let you purchase it for a business, just buy a normal machine and install Ubuntu. I see how people want to buy these machines with Ubuntu on them because a lot of the money is wasted on bloatware not to mention M$ windows.

[smoker]

seems it on digg now!
http://digg.com/linux_unix

[mips]

the person on the phon was telling me that my discount cupan is invalid. using the same cupan i order my computer through website, it worked great.

What is a 'cupan" ?

[smoker]

What is a 'cupan" ?

maybe he means 'coupon'?

[mips]

maybe he means 'coupon'?

Thx, he should work on his spelling. That word sounded exotic ;)

[DR_K13]

seems it on digg now!
http://digg.com/linux_unix

and here too
http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4889

[IronWolve]

Correct, the opensource options for business is freedos or Red Hat (Enterprise Linux WS v4 for EM64T 64bit system w/ 1 YR RHN, w/ Media)..

But, really, it doesnt have the microsoft license or (M$ Tax) if you call it. Thats a win.

Put your own ubuntu on it. Whats so special about Dell's repackaged ubuntu, same dvd?

I think for 250 bux for a workstation, and free ubuntu to top it off. Dell has my business. (Tax here is 20 bux on that, too)

[bloodniece]

I work for a small non-profit in TN as well. We have a Dell Small Business account and $100,000 worth of credit with Dell.

I called Dell Small BusIness and spoke with Carlous. He was courteous and helpful and gave me some useful information.

They would not sell ANY computer from the home and home business line to me, open source OS or not. I would have to open a separate account in the home side before I could purchase anything from that line. However, they did say the 6400 is basically the same model as the E1505N.

[haapai]

OK.. I went through the same thing, but the sales guy wanted to make the sale so bad he sent me this email. I also work for a non-profit, and boy was this guy clueless.
I deleted his name.(Dell Guy)


> The UBUNTU OS that you are wanting is free software,
> but it will not be supported by Dell or by any other
> computer manufacturer. You will not get free
> support from Linux either. Linux will most likely
> be charging premium prices for support free
> software. Also, any programs that you want to use
> like MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc. you will have
> to write the programming yourselves in order for it
> to work. Dell does not have a return policy for any
> of the systems sold with no operating system, or for
> systems with UBUNTU OS. I would really recommend
> going with a more traditional setup because in the
> long run it will be supported and will give you a
> better return on your investment.
>
> Dell Guy
> Small Business Sales Consultant
> Business Sales Division
> Dell, Inc.
> Direct number: 1-615-795-????
> or
> 1-800-456-3355
> My hours are 8-5, Mon-Fri, CST
> For Assistance with Your Purchase Online or By
> Phone:
> How am I doing? E-mail my Manager:
> manger?yeahright@Dell.com
> Need Sales? Contact me directly for help with
> servers, desktops, notebooks, networking equipment
> or software & peripherals.

>>>>My response.

Hi Dell Guy,

I understand that we may have to pay for support for Ubuntu, but we have
been running Ubuntu for over 2 years in the IT department. This includes
4 servers running Linux without support. Linux is a community supported
OS, and no one owns Linux.

As for the programs such as Office 2007 we have loaded OpenOffice
created by Sun. I am sure Dell is familiar with Sun. It has all the same
capabilities as Office. Other programs such as music players
(RhythmBox), DVD/CD (K3B)burn programs, photo editing programs (f-spot)
and many other programs are free.
On a side note I have been running Linux (Ubuntu, Mepis) at home and
have had great success. I even run it on a Dell Laptop, and it runs
twice as fast and long on battery life.

I understand that Dell doesn't take returns on NO OS, but don't you
still support the hardware? And considering that the Home side only
offers up to 1 year support it is a mood point.

I will be looking for another vendor to purchase CPU's and servers from.
This is disappointing since I have worked with Dell for more than 10
years.

Thanks Dell Guy for your concern, but maybe Dell should educate its
personnel on new technology. There are other OS's out there Microsoft
isn't the only business out there.

Haapai

>>>>His response.

The hardware would be supported and is available for up to 4 years on
Deminsion systems.

>>>>Ah.. OK.

[trinaryouroboros]

OK.. I went through the same thing, but the sales guy wanted to make the sale so bad he sent me this email. I also work for a non-profit, and boy was this guy clueless.
I deleted his name.(Dell Guy)


> The UBUNTU OS that you are wanting is free software,
> but it will not be supported by Dell or by any other
> computer manufacturer. You will not get free
> support from Linux either. Linux will most likely
> be charging premium prices for support free
> software. Also, any programs that you want to use
> like MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc. you will have
> to write the programming yourselves in order for it
> to work. Dell does not have a return policy for any
> of the systems sold with no operating system, or for
> systems with UBUNTU OS. I would really recommend
> going with a more traditional setup because in the
> long run it will be supported and will give you a
> better return on your investment.
>
> Dell Guy
> Small Business Sales Consultant


What a total deutchebag!

[Detonate]

More importantly, are they really supporting Ubuntu and Linux? They didn't seem too supportive to me.

After reading on this forum and others about Dell and Ubuntu experiences, I'm starting to think this whole exercise of Dell selling Linux computers is "designed to fail".

[mike999999]

After reading on this forum and others about Dell and Ubuntu experiences, I'm starting to think this whole exercise of Dell selling Linux computers is "deigned to fail".

Only if we make it fail.

Releasing a 'new' consumerside o/s (okay, it's not new, but it is new to Dell) is a massive undertaking. Any deja vu's of win98, winme, winxp and winV anyone? Each time there was a learning curve to smooth out the 'bugs' (heheh).

The point is their intention is sound, if not the implementation.

These sales reps are clearly not up to speed.

It's hard to believe a company refusing money based on the type of client account.

[trinaryouroboros]

This is by far the most ridiculous decision Dell has made. Even when linux gets support, it really doesn't get support. Ubuntu should have alternative competitive vendors, that should straighten Dell out from playing their silly games. I hope HP adopts Ubuntu, in my experience their hardware is so much better for the money.

http://system76.com/

If Canonical would be interested in such competition, I'm positive they wouldn't have any trouble finding hardware recruits/etc. You're right too, none of these big companies look at any of the "end users" unless one of those users happens to file a lawsuit or another company starts eating at their cash flow.

Hell, I'd opt to open business myself here in New York with Canonical's permission!

I'll get the hardware myself!

[macogw]

I wasn't aware they were selling those yet.
Oops, the extra-expensive Linux-based workstations use Red Hat, not SLED. http://www.dell.com/content/topics/reftopic.aspx/pub/products/precn_kat?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~section=490

[macogw]

Think about it from their standpoint, how soon would it be before somebody calls saying they can't join their new Ubuntu computer to a domain?

They don't provide support anyway. Canonical is in charge of the tech support contracts. Dell wouldn't get the call. Canonical would. Besides, isn't that what the company's IT department is for? If a company starts using Linux, it's probably because someone in the IT department who knows how to use it and work with it made the decision. I kind of doubt the average CEO knows more than the average CTO.

[Syke]

I work for a small non-profit in TN as well. We have a Dell Small Business account and $100,000 worth of credit with Dell.

I called Dell Small BusIness and spoke with Carlous. He was courteous and helpful and gave me some useful information.

They would not sell ANY computer from the home and home business line to me, open source OS or not. I would have to open a separate account in the home side before I could purchase anything from that line. However, they did say the 6400 is basically the same model as the E1505N.
Don't count on it. The 6400 comes with ATI video - something you really don't want to run Ubuntu on.

[DR_K13]

Don't count on it. The 6400 comes with ATI video - something you really don't want to run Ubuntu on.

why not? I got it working fine!

[Cheese Sandwich]

I would suspect that this is due to the deal with M$. You can sell computers with Ubuntu, but not to our bread and butter customers (businesses). Just a guess!!! ;)

+1

[detroit/zero]

I really wanted to support Dell and I am just blown away that they would REFUSE MY MONEY because I was buying it to use for a business. What company goes around telling its customers how they can use their products? What business model does that fall under?

Answer: Microsoft and every software company in existence. RIAA. MPAA. Probably others.

[mr.farenheit]

seems kinda stupid to me. very unsupportive in a way to promoting the use of linux. it'd be like buying a unix based business system i.e. sub server model for your gaming purposes i.e. running your own game server and being told that you can't buy it because it wouldn't be for business use. try selling lemonade on the sidewalk and telling people you won't sell it to em cause they have to take it home and drink it and not drink it in front of you.

[jiminycricket]

Supporting a small business must be different from supporting a home user.

I'm sure someone's already replied to this...but I thought CANONICAL is supporting these things? (if you purchase it, of course).

Dell only supports the hardware, through the FreeDOS CD utility they include.

If they're only selling SLED, well that's a very sad thing because SuSE products are bought with Microsoft/Novell coupons that afford you minimal protection, and give royalties to Microsoft AFAIK. Someone pointed out they're still selling RHEL workstations but those are expensive too...

EDIT: Sure enough, many have already said what I said :)

How about contacting your state attorney generals and telling them your experience with Dell (are they beholden to Microsoft contracts disallowed under the Consent Decree (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f218300/218339.htm)?)

[rickycodie]

i just stumbled on this story on slashdot. good up to whoever did that, i am a little peeved about the half a'd way this dell ubuntu thing seems to be going.

[koshatnik]

Probably a lucky escape to be honest - Dell hardware is crap. All our machines in work are Dell and they are, frankly, awful. Cheap components poor build quality.

[ashz]

It's been what, 20 days??

Has anyone considered it might be because Dell are "testing" the water with Ubuntu in the home market. The deal with Canonical is to provide support to "Home" users.

Before a company will invest in its future it has to have a testing period of a product, and that is what the home market is for.

Give them a chance!! They do not want to be selling to businesses if the PC's for some reason start crashing. Who do you think gets sued if that starts happening!!

I believe they will wait till the next LTS release before they start to release to businesses and the educational markets.

Disclaimer: To all flamers out there I am not a Dell lover, I do not work for Dell, I have not slept with or recieved any sexual favours off any Dell employees. Though if any "HOT" Dell secrataries wish to provide me with said favours then I'm available...whenever...call me...PLEASE!!

[Johnsie]

For crying out loud, just stick the Ubuntu cd in and install it yourself! It's hardly rocket science.

[Cheese Sandwich]

I have not slept with or recieved any sexual favours off any Dell employees.

How can we be sure?

[Detonate]

I,m not a "conspiracy theory" person, but I am beginning to smell a rat. I think it is possible that this whole thing is a ploy concocted between M$ and Dell to "prove" that there is no market for these systems.

"See, we offered Linux to the public and there was no market." Now we can ignore those Linux people and get back to our goal of world PC domination.

Follow the money.

[angryfirelord]

Now on: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40472

In regards to the situation, it really is almost a backstabber that Dell proclaims they're going to promote this Linux distribution and yet they're not willing to offer support for it.

Hmm, maybe you should have told Dell it was for personal business use. :D

[darkone778]

just figured i would drop a little funny redundancy out here for the fell ubuntu users looking at dell for their os of choice on their new hardware. If you go to the dell.com/linux it states. and I quote the followingith Dell, you can take full advantage of your Linux operating system whether at home or at the office. You can have an open infrastructure to support your open code.

Dell-with its standardized, flexible, affordable, scalable technology - is the perfect partner for your Linux operating system.

Dell offers a wide range of innovative Linux business solutions, including the latest from Red Hat® and Novell® SUSE® on Dell PowerEdgeTM servers and Dell/EMC storage. Dell enables simplified Linux migration and out-of-the-box web and database servers. "

seems to me maybe dells service reps and Michael need to do some reading to show what theys say they are offering but actually arent.

[glj12]

Can Ubuntu be used for profit or for a business? I realize that it is a non-profit business, but they probably don't know that. Clarification anyone?

[Johnsie]

Yes, you can even use ubuntu to make a business selling Ubuntu cd's. The Ubuntu license is quite generous in terms of what you can do with it. If you use Ubuntu to make money and people see that then it is good for Ubuntu publicity and more people will probably get it. Canonical actually encourages people to use Ubuntu in their businesses.

[prizrak]

Hi cosborn72, Dell is very crafty about pricing their systems differently for home/business/employees/affiliates. The prices are constantly changing and can vary substantially with respect to nearly identical systems.

I have found that if you order *via the website* rather than by phone, they do not check your "eligibility" for different types of purchases at all. I was able to get an "employee and affiliate" deal on a system for personal, home use! Check out my slightly lengthier response to your slashdot submission: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=239059&cid=19580271

Hope that helps! (Also note that, because of discounts and promotions, it may actually be cheaper to order a Windows-based system and then just put Ubuntu on it, as was the case for me.)
This isn't really the point and something that most Linux users misunderstand. It may be possible to get a Windows machine cheaper but the point is to SHOW Dell that people in fact WANT the Ubuntu systems. Dell needs to SEE [in their bottom line] that people WILL spend their money on that offering. If Dell sees the market for it, they will roll it out overseas and will start putting more pressure on the manufacturers to release open drivers.

[bloodniece]

From the conversation I had, Dell will not sell any computer from the home line to business users. It is not a conspiracy against Ubuntu or GNU or anything like that. It's like calling the mobile phone division of AT&T and trying to get a LAN line. Wrong department, call this number. We sell blue widgets at this store, the green widgets are down the street. I can call the home sales division and order Ubuntu laptops all day long and just use them at my business without Dell's support.

Now, I agree that they should add Ubuntu powered systems to their business line.
Maybe Dell should partner with Canonical for business and enterprise level tech support packages to be sold with business-class workstations and notebooks.

Better yet, just buy a computer from System 76 and send a copy of your receipt to Michael Dell ;)

[tripwire45]

From the conversation I had, Dell will not sell any computer from the home line to busines

Now, I agree that they should add Ubuntu powered systems to their business line.
Maybe Dell should partner with Canonical for business and enterprise level tech support packages to be sold with business-class workstations and notebooks. Perhaps that's the plan exactly and offering home systems is just the first step.

[Ultra Magnus]

To be honest I suspect this is just an honest blunder by a less informed dell employee - How many times have you gotten all the facts, called support for something and they tell you it isn't the case until you show them they are being idiots - A few people here seem to be pretty paranoid, I don't think Dell is out to undermine Linux or open source - I suspect there may be a bit of pressure from Microsoft to not promote this too much - But they do have an ad for Ubuntu on their front page (on the bit which changes every time you refresh the page) - Given how many people has read this thread and seen it on digg, I suspect they will say that it was a mistake. Critisism is good but remember Dell has been only offering Ubuntu for a short while and low level employees are sometimes easily confused.

[prizrak]

Only if we make it fail.

Releasing a 'new' consumerside o/s (okay, it's not new, but it is new to Dell) is a massive undertaking. Any deja vu's of win98, winme, winxp and winV anyone? Each time there was a learning curve to smooth out the 'bugs' (heheh).

The point is their intention is sound, if not the implementation.

These sales reps are clearly not up to speed.

It's hard to believe a company refusing money based on the type of client account.

"The way to hell is paved with good intentions" --no clue where it's from. When I "intend" to hit the brakes but hit the gas instead the cops won't say "oh ok, we understand you ran over that old lady on accident you can go free".

Intent means Jack Schitt, I want to see action. I want Dell to allow non-profits and education organizations to order Ubuntu based machines. Considering that their hardware is pretty much the same it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

[vexorian]

I didn't know we already got the "Ubuntu bussiness" distro, I mean, is Ubuntu really meant for bussiness?

[prizrak]

Perhaps that's the plan exactly and offering home systems is just the first step.

if that is the plan then they are very much expecting Linux to fail miserably.
1) An organization that has it's own IT department is much more likely to switch to a different OS if it can save them money and provide higher availability. Home users didn't give Linux a 49% server market share and 62% (I think that was the latest) for Apache.

2) Dell has been offering LInux servers and FreeDOS business desktops (for use with Linux obviously) desktops for years with RedHat and now SuSE. They ALREADY know that there is a market for Linux on the business side, it would simply be the matter of offering ANOTHER distro in addition to the first two. No one is telling them to support it, they are selling home support through Canonical anyways wtf would be the difference for organizations?

3) They could have easily expanded the range of their products to use Linux from the get go. For the most part all you would need is Intel Wi-Fi, nVidia or Intel video card and drivers for the modem and special keys. There are plenty of Windows systems that would fit that description so it would really only be the matter of providing the special keys driver and setting the shortcuts up correctly (in my experience half the damn keys are setup correctly as soon as the driver is loaded).

4) Marketing - every single OEM website had huge ads for Vista months before it came out. In order to get to Ubuntu Dells you pretty much have to know where to go.

This is a very half a**ed attempt to support Linux and it really means nothing. They know for a fact that a handful of Linux enthusiasts will order the laptops. Another VERY tiny percentage might get the desktops. They know most Linux users build their own machines or know enough about hardware research to not worry that something won't work on their new laptop. They also know that despite Ubuntu's relative lightweight most Linux fans will want something with a bit more power than what they are currently offering.


I didn't know we already got the "Ubuntu bussiness" distro, I mean, is Ubuntu really meant for bussiness?
Is Windows?

[3cwired_com]

For many years I have looked up to dell, and have appreciated their customer service, I think like someone else said, this may have been a miseducated worker. Most likely though, once you look at it, the decisions made by dell are obviously based upon business. They are obviously focusing on the big bucks.... I think it makes sense, i could be wrong.

[ignignokt00]

What company goes around telling its customers how they can use their products? What business model does that fall under?
hahahaha, Have you ever heard of the RIAA or MPAA?

[cosborn72]

Wow....who would have thought my one little vent over a sales call gone bad would have prompted such discussion? Web 2.0 is scary.....

Anyway, I am still glad Dell decided to sell Ubuntu-installed computers. I still intend to buy one for home use, even if they won't let me buy one for my business.

If it is their policy to not sell their open-source computers to business users, I would certianly not recommend changing the policy on my account- I was only going to buy one $850 dollar computer. That hardly qualifies as a demand for a product.

[Cheese Sandwich]

Wow....who would have thought my one little vent over a sales call gone bad would have prompted such discussion? Web 2.0 is scary.....

Anyway, I am still glad Dell decided to sell Ubuntu-installed computers...

Ditto. I hope other major vendors aren't thinking "what a huge hassle & PR risk to sell FOSS OS's - let's avoid that altogether". Seems Dell has suffered more of a negative PR hit then if they had not decided to offer any ubuntu in the first place.

[Conficio]

When you configure a Dell Dimension E520N with Ubuntu, the last step is additional software packages. Interestingly it offers "PC Tutor: Learn Windows Vista and Office 2007". I think this is not compatible with Ubuntu and OpenOffice.org ;-)

[vexorian]

Ditto. I hope other major vendors aren't thinking "what a huge hassle & PR risk to sell FOSS OS's - let's avoid that altogether". Seems Dell has suffered more of a negative PR hit then if they had not decided to offer any ubuntu in the first place.
heck indeed, someguys in the OS world are actually spreading FUD against dell all the time when what we should do is support dell as much as possible since this way of distribution is the best possible for Linux desktop OS, without the issues with hardware and installation, etc

[prizrak]

heck indeed, someguys in the OS world are actually spreading FUD against dell all the time when what we should do is support dell as much as possible since this way of distribution is the best possible for Linux desktop OS, without the issues with hardware and installation, etc

The way to home desktop acceptance is through organizational desktop. Most of the people I know would not get a Dell Ubuntu machine. Those who would know how to install Linux anyway (Gentoo and Slack users for the most part). My alma mater however might very well decide to put Ubuntu (or other Linux) machines in their labs. You can still write papers in OO and browse the web with Firefox (which they switched to very quickly) but the admins won't have to clean out spyware all the time.

This is the problem, Dell is allowing for a very limited choice of the machines and is refusing to sell them to organizations. They will have a very small number of Linux enthusiasts buy the laptops only because laptops are such a pain to configure. There will be an incredibly tiny portion of people getting the desktops as lets face it we tend to build our own. It won't help that Ubuntu can run just fine on older machines so those who get them now will not be upgrading for a couple of years. This will lead to very small sales by Dell prompting them to pull the plug on the whole thing. Even if they do not do that it will show other OEM's that there is an almost non existing market for Linux preinstalls and won't bother.

Another thing I don't understand is why not unify the line. Hardware that works with Linux will work just fine with Windows. The only thing that is really needed is the media keys driver and I seriously doubt that Dell uses different keyboards in their machines. This would allow them to sell nearly their entire line with Ubuntu on it. The only problem would be machines with AMD video cards but that could be easily taken care of with a warning or disallowing for a choice of Ubuntu as an OS. At the very least they could have offered it as an option for organizational machines.

I hope I'm wrong but so far it doesn't seem like Dell is very committed to Linux adoption. If they really wanted to back it up they would have allowed organizations to get it.

[Alterax]

I agree. FUD against a new ally isn't going to help matters. Maybe Dell needs more Ubuntu requests from businesses. If the home models sell well and businesses start asking for it, they will warm up to the idea. Using the home market keeps them from getting in too far over their heads, instead of jumping all-in.

Work with them and give it time. The idea is still very new to them.

[Canis familiaris]

It's probably because they want you to buy the more expensive Novell SLED workstations if you're a business.
Exactly. I am sure they must be offering RHEL and Mandriva as well.

[derred]

I wonder if they sell FreeDOS machines to businesses. If so than just buy those and install Ubuntu yourself (still not the perfect answer)

[Beyond_Construction]

The reason Dell does not offer Linux on its "business line" most likely has to do with Microsofts muscle on Dell. Let's be glad that Dell has at least given MS the finger in the home line. Dell gets a screaming deal on their MS operating systems, putting any Linux system on their business line will cause MS to increase substantionally the cost of Windows. It is simple business. Regarding the what if's of the financial transaction. It doesn't matter how or by what means it was purchased. If it is used for business then it falls under all the legalities of business. Only things purchase under the business and totally used as personal are illegal. Items used both for personal and business need to have their respective percentages reported.

[skooge]

You could go to All Around Geeks. http://www.allaroundgeeks.com

[tripwire45]

I don't think that Ubuntu on Dell is the only game in town:

Lenovo to offer SUSE Linux Preload on ThinkPad Notebooks (http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5090&mode=flat&order=0&thold=-1)

Red Hat to offer whitebox Linux desktops globally (http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5082&mode=flat&order=0&thold=-1)

[angrykeyboarder]

I was very happy when it was announced that Dell would be selling PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled.

However, it did little to change my opinion of Dell.

But any big name PC-maker putting Ubuntu (and Linux) in front of more people is a good thing.

Personally, I will buy my next computer from whomever offers me what I want configuration-wise (or close to it) without being obscenely expensive. And naturally, said company would (supposedly) have a good reputation as well.

Honestly if I were to buy a new PC tomorrow I don't know who I'd get it from but I can tell you who I wouldn't get it from (Dell would be among those I'd avoid).

On a related note, even if I loved Delll to death, I'd still buy elsewhere. The options they offer for Ubuntu pale in comparison to what they offer if you buy a Windows box.

[cosimo]

hey people,
i have talked to Dell my self about the Ubuntu systems.
The reason they are not selling these systems to anyone other than home users is because they do not have the staff or the skills at this stage to support business/corporate installations.
there is no other reason !
The reason I called was to gain info on becoming off site support / partnership program for Dell/Ubuntu.
They are testing Gusty right now since it will come default with compiz fusion installed.
There is no corporate agenda here, it is simply that they have no skilled staff to take care of support for anything other than the home user :)

[OldTimeTech]

I still find it interesting that they only offer two different choices of laptops with Ubuntu and that if you want one of their upper $$ laptops you either can't get it with Ubuntu or you can't get it without an OS.

My significant other bought an Acer 9300-5005 of course had Vista (YUK), I immediately installed 7.04 as a dual boot. He's thrilled and hardly if ever touches the Vista side, probably will totally take it off the machine soon.

I'm checking out the other companies that provide linux laptops....I have a ways to wait before the money appears.

[xrdguy]

Just got HP m8120n quadcore media centre computer. formetted VISTA home premium and installed free VISTA ultimate along with ubuntu. The only reason for installing VISTA is because some software and some websites are only compatible with microsoft crap. But I am happy with my computer.

[syedk01]

I recently purchased a number of Dell 2950's with RH Linux and the 4-port Intel Pro 1000 cards. I switched to Ubuntu and had some problem with the 4-port card (link up but unable to send traffic e.g ping). I called Dell support and was told they only support RH. WhenI asked the support person to talk to the manager - I was told "why do you want to do that?". I am getting ready to escalate.

[K.Mandla]

Closed for necromancy.