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H.E. Pennypacker
June 18th, 2007, 04:01 AM
If you're here long enough, you'll find lots of threads in which newbies complain about Ubuntu and/or Linux, and almost always, those posts are followed by a ridiculous number of people insulting/attacking the OP (original poster - the person complaining).

While we could learn something from these newbies, many of us would rather attack him, with childish replies like "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." Why not reply with something constructive that could possibly help someone? How about asking the newbie what he or she would like different, or what can be done to make things better?

I realize that many of these newbies rehash the same old stuff (and many of them provide nothing useful), but patience with them will not hurt. Kindly forward them to a thread already on the topic, so that you don't have to waste your time. Remind them that the topic has already been discussed, or try to engage in useful discussion.

You can't say you're civilized when you're constantly attacking each other.

Developers will frequently say that software users are helpful, because they contribute bug reports. These newbies could potentially report what they have problems with, but because of childish forum members, their feelings towards Ubuntu/Linux are sour, making any chance of their return highly unlikely (even if Ubuntu one day has everything they need/love - they won't even bother dealing with a hostile community).

Do Linux a favor, and allow for criticism. The more Linux criticism there is, the more opportunities there are for something good to happen. Horrible wireless support? Let's work on it. Can't hibernate? Let's do something about it. Don't dismiss newbies because you've had a bad day at work or something.

I don't even bother with trying to defend newbies, even if I disagree with them, because I would have to take on too many people. Let's act our age, and be civilized towards others, even if they are not civilized towards us.

EDIT: This thread is about people who say things like "Linux is not ready for the desktop." This thread does not concern people who ask questions about Linux, or people who do not use the search feature. I repeat: this thread has nothing to do with people who ask questions, or look for answers. Please do not go off-topic.

jrusso2
June 18th, 2007, 04:05 AM
Just because something doesn't work for someone does that mean it has to be made better?

I don't think you should be rude to people, but hey a lot of people not only suffer from a total lack of trying along with a lack of knowledge about basic computing.

All in all this forum is perhaps the best I have ever seen and treats people pretty well.

SoulinEther
June 18th, 2007, 04:07 AM
Not only leaving newbies... I'd like to see more people being supportive of others in general.

Here are some lines I'm getting sick of seeing:

Oh, well then RTFM.
www.google.com + search words here
Try helping yourself first before asking for help.

This type of behavior should NOT be condoned. It's shameful, rude, and it smacks of arrogance, all reflecting back on the community the person belongs to.

Sorry, this is my second rant today... somebody really pissed me off in the #qemu IRC.


Just because something doesn't work for someone does that mean it has to be made better?

I don't think you should be rude to people, but hey a lot of people not only suffer from a total lack of trying along with a lack of knowledge about basic computing.

YES! Nothing should be hard. Doing less and getting the same results done is good. It's technology.

....but hey, don't forget most people don't spend all their life on computers. Windows XP often "just works" much better than ANY Linux distribution. And if everybody picked up "basic computing"... then there would be little need for these forums, because lots of what needs to be done in Ubuntu requires just that and no more, and yet there are still very many simple questions.

macogw
June 18th, 2007, 04:13 AM
Er....we have a search thing on the forum for a reason though... I can't be the only person who does a search before asking...it seems like the obvious thing to do. Asking requires waiting for an answer. Searching gets you an instant answer.

Anyway...a lot of the "Linux isnt' ready for the desktop blah blah blah" comes from people who don't bother to even try. They just get upset because things are a bit different (in the case of Synaptic v. searching all over the internet for a suitable program or a crack of an expensive one, Synapic is better) than what they're used to and instead of poking around a bit and seeing where they are and learn the interface, they complain. It probably comes from those STUPID computer classes where they teach rote memorization of clicks instead of "interfaces are made to make sense. go find the feature yourself."

I don't think anyone here says RTFM, but we do get a bit irritated by people telling us that the software sucks just because a button is in a different place. I don't see that as an attitude problem on the part of the people being annoyed by the complaining. The attitude of "I don't want to know. I don't want to learn. I want to be a zombie" is a problem though. The only sedative for it is a Mac (where their policy is "you don't need to know, don't want to know, and you wouldn't understand anyway").

steveneddy
June 18th, 2007, 04:15 AM
We need to make the Absolute Beginner forum more prominent on the front page. Maybe even add a small guide to tell them where to look, like the Ubuntu Documents Storage website. If someone new to the forums had a small guide to tell them where to find answers and how to search for the answers they need before stumbling through the forums looking for answers that they may not actually know how to find, this would be a better solution.

Ireclan
June 18th, 2007, 04:15 AM
I agree with the original poster; we need to be more friendly to those who complain about Linux. Not being able to take criticism is a major character flaw. Even if the criticizer has a major attitude problem, it shouldn't be repaid in kind.

tanelt
June 18th, 2007, 04:22 AM
I don't think you should be rude to people, but hey a lot of people not only suffer from a total lack of trying along with a lack of knowledge about basic computing.

Most people in the world have never used a keyboard.


How many people know how to properly encode HD-DVD or BluRay to x264? Do I call them retards and tell them to RTFM if they ask for help with it? Of course not. I'll try to help if I happen to know the solution to the problem. What might seem rather straightforward/easy for one, might seem a complete mystery to the other.

SoulinEther
June 18th, 2007, 04:22 AM
I use the search feature often. I google. But neither option gives a person the human response found in a forum, in an IRC chat room, or through commercial support.

There are some people who like to get help. There are others that don't. Support the ones who want to get help by giving them help, and convert the ones who don't and just whine by helping them and getting them to understand. They'll see "the light".

It can be very frustrating to try to do something or get something to work and only fail. You never know what your OP's problem was leading up to the creation of a new thread on the forum. Give him/her the benefit of the doubt, and instead of turning a cold shoulder or saying "Search is available."

Perhaps somebody has been working two days straight on getting his sound working. He decides that he's tried every possible method, and decides come to the forum to get help. If his problem was something simple and he had simply overlooked something... help him out. (**** I'm realizing I might sound a little hypocritical, with this argument and my other argument in the other thread... nah, maybe not) Don't leave them sour. It doesn't help your cause.


We need to make the Absolute Beginner forum more prominent on the front page. Maybe even add a small guide to tell them where to look, like the Ubuntu Documents Storage website. If someone new to the forums had a small guide to tell them where to find answers and how to search for the answers they need before stumbling through the forums looking for answers that they may not actually know how to find, this would be a better solution.

Your first bit of sarcasm is not appreciated - it doesn't help your cause either.

And searching is a flawed method. People say it works, but often there are too many variables to a problem for the search method to be effective. No search engine can beat the human mind's ability to reason identify, and solve.

arsenic23
June 18th, 2007, 04:28 AM
If you think that a person has failed to try and find an answer before creating a thread, and this peaves you off, then just ignore them. You don't have to tell them they fail at searching. Either they'll realize that they should look around the forum, or someone more helpfull will come along and help them. Overall we'll appear better for it.

H.E. Pennypacker
June 18th, 2007, 04:40 AM
Since some people have missed the point of this thread, I edited the original post. Please do not go off-topic. This thread does not concern people who are asking questions, and are looking for help (or the quality of answers they receive). This thread only concerns people who make comments critical of Linux/Ubuntu.

steveneddy
June 18th, 2007, 04:46 AM
Your first bit of sarcasm is not appreciated - it doesn't help your cause either.



I wasn't being sarcastic Mr. Smartypants. I was offering what I saw as a solution to the original problem. New users stumble with problems and are startled to see so many choices on the front page that it is hard for them to make the right decision where to go first. The "Read Me First!" post needs to be the first thing they see.

SoulinEther
June 18th, 2007, 04:50 AM
Sorry for going off-topic.

More on topic: I haven't seen a lot of posts regarding "I hate linux!".. maybe I'm not looking.

And ... steveneddy, your first part of your post seemed like sarcasm, hence the "first bit", heh. If not, sorry, I must have misunderstood.

steveneddy
June 18th, 2007, 04:50 AM
My point is that many users say that the Linux Desktop isn't ready for the mainstream and they fail to look and search the correct forums or remote sites for the information that they could have used to make a more informed decision about whatever they were trying to install or accomplish by using Linux and Ubuntu in General.

vexorian
June 18th, 2007, 04:57 AM
Some people are just rude when posting what should have been feedback, they are also incredibly unspecific, if they made actual descriptions of what is making them leave that would be so useful actually, or that would help them to get helped.

But sometimes you find something like "thegimp doesn't compare to photoshop! The terminal is evil!" I think that really makes me mad, but it is worse when they add their own rudeness to the comment. I personally don't think I should ever be kind to people that are being rude themselves, but that's an opinion I guess.

It is also senseless that they complaint about the lack of games, saying something like "99% of the games don't work" Have you yet noticed that the majority of the games are tiny things made for old consoles, DOS and win32? And then out of the 10% of directx games, 2% of them are actually good and 50% of the good ones actually work on WINE? Besides of the fact that you shouldn't really have installed Linux in the first place if you wanted to have fun with your directx games...

BTW what's up with people complaining about photoshop? Shouldn't they complaint to adobe so they support yet another platform? (They are definitely not locked to windows/mac if you ask... Or how about making it work in WINE? Cause from what I know 5.0 works fine and CS8 just requires some tweaks that are available as recipes...

Besides, are there so many professional artists out there? seriously...

Then there are the guys who compare Linux with SuperWindows4, SuperWindows4 is a mutant operating system product of installing windows, all 6 driver cds a computer typically requires, microsoft office, all adobe products and 120 freeware apps they have downloaded...

Not to count the guys that are just trolls... oh man.

--
While I am on complaints, how about adding some instructions to the live-cd installer, like "if your hardware isn't detected from this live-cd it would most likely be incompatible with ubuntu" thus preventing people from actually installing stuff for no reason?

init1
June 18th, 2007, 05:15 AM
I don't see what one could possibly gain by saying "I hate linux. Windows is so much easier. I can't find anything, the games are crap, it never works, why not use Windows? Linux is so hard! Why do I have to do this? This sucks".
Such things will definitely attract criticism.

LightB
June 18th, 2007, 05:16 AM
I agree with the original poster; we need to be more friendly to those who complain about Linux. Not being able to take criticism is a major character flaw. Even if the criticizer has a major attitude problem, it shouldn't be repaid in kind.

Why not? I think it's fair. Some of you will disagree with that but that's how I see things. You really shouldn't take any of it too seriously anyways.

lamalex
June 18th, 2007, 05:18 AM
if you cant help yourself, you should be left to die. the rtfm attitude is the essential spirit of planet earth. Yes, we have support, yes everyone is welcome to it, but please, just /try/ first. Imagine if everyone at least skimmed tfm, half of people's problems would be solved in a third of the time. I think it's awesome we have these support forums, but there is probably 1 original post for every 15 other posts, if people just used the search function, just about all of their questions would be answered, there's even a "has this already been posted" button! IT DOES THE WORK FOR YOU! Seriously, come on guys, we're Humans, we have large brains, use them. (I apologize, it's late and part of me is lookin' for a fight)

23meg
June 18th, 2007, 05:19 AM
I agree with the gist of the original post, at least the non-naive parts - in an ideal parallel universe.

In this present universe though, I have limited time, energy, patience; I'm not going to waste any for someone who doesn't care to spend some to learn at least the basics of what they're talking about in the first place. I'm not going to go any extra length to be nice to someone who starts off directly attacking a body of work and social practice that I've contributed to and value, while making it obvious in their statements that they're unaware of some of the very basic properties of it. I'm not defending being rude to them, or saying that I choose to be so. I'm just not going to put any extra effort to be gentle and accommodating; I'll say it like it is.


Do Linux a favor, and allow for criticism. The more Linux criticism there is, the more opportunities there are for something good to happen.

Complaint != Criticism
The same criticism over and over != More criticism

This has nothing to do with the ability to take criticism, as opposed to how many newcomers will label us. People who do nothing other than complain aren't offering what we haven't already heard hundreds of times.


Horrible wireless support? Let's work on it. Can't hibernate? Let's do something about it

An important point to remember here is that the people in question automatically assume that nobody is already working to improve the areas in which they've had problems. My wireless doesn't work.. That must be because Linux developers are slacking in the wireless department; now let me log into that forum and throw some stones at the community, and sneak in a few sensational lines, and even some "Linux will never take off unless this and that is fixed" blackmail so that they'll get their act together! What a great way to improve things.

And just if more people could be as collaborative as you wished. Sure, there's nothing wrong with offering them to be, but almost always, the kind of people in question won't listen. I think a very important reason for this is that they don't see Linux / Ubuntu / Free software as a continuum, a process to which they and everyone else can contribute to and reap the rewards of, but as a static product that they can only complain about and throw stones at, like the proprietary products they're used to.

Being respectful is a prerequisite at all times, and I'm all for being nice and polite, to the extent that it works; I've actually been made fun of for thinking that Ubuntu owes a lot of its success to the very presence of the Code of Conduct (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct). It helps to take a look at it from time to time.

saulgoode
June 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM
I think that RTFM is a perfect response to an "I HATE LINUX" post. \\:D/

egon spengler
June 18th, 2007, 08:20 AM
I use the search feature often. I google. But neither option gives a person the human response found in a forum, in an IRC chat room, or through commercial support.

Searching the forum (or google that will more than likely turn upo forum results) doesn't give you the human response forums do? How is that possible?

Tundro Walker
June 18th, 2007, 08:35 AM
We all don't mind constructive criticism. It's when the OP acts rude, flaming or talks down to us that we all tend to get our fur up. This isn't physics, where an action gets an equal but opposite reaction (IE: a rude OP gets a kind reply). This is communications. If the OP is polite and points out issues they have in a constructive way, most folks will say "here's how you fix it" or "yes, that's an issue and the Ubuntu folks are working on something." Of course, even with a polite OP, half the challenge with anybody (regardless of whether they use Windows, Linux, Mac, etc), is to get them to actually take your advice and use it.

Seriously, 90% of the "Linux sucks because of..." posts I read might as well include the follow-up phrase "...and I don't really want to do anything about it except complain and get everyone worked up!"

Part of the Code of Conduct is to be polite and decent to each other. But if someone comes to your house, slaps your wife and kicks your dog, you tend to get a little miffed. The folks in this community take pride in helping others, being part of something bigger, etc. And when someone comes along and dumps all over that, it really sets folks off. But they're just supposed to grin and bear it?

egon spengler
June 18th, 2007, 08:40 AM
EDIT: This thread is about people who say things like "Linux is not ready for the desktop." This thread does not concern people who ask questions about Linux, or people who do not use the search feature.

Well firstly I'm surprised that anyone considers this forum "rude". Apart from the half baked zealotry of people who only just learnt about open source in the last fortnight (see people advocating the use of swiftfox over firefox because "firefox isn't Free enough") the number one most tiresome aspect of this forum (imo) in this amazing group think insistence on maintaining an almost child like atmosphere where even the merest hint of sarcasm, let alone a tersely worded response, can get you warning from a moderator. Where exactly does this rudeness manifest itself?

Secondly (and I guess that actually this answers my first point) you seem to think any response other that "Why yes, you're absolutely right" is the height of ill manners. You gave the example of people saying "Don't let the door hit you on the way out". I'll admit I don't check this forum regularly but in my limited time here I only ever see that thrown at people who have already stated "Linux/ubuntu is trash, I shall be reinstalling Windows right away" In the instance of someone who has already decided that ubunut is not for them in why should the community members STILL crawl on their hands and knees and beg said person to stay?

With your heightened sensitivity towards rudeness I'm sure that you've noticed that quite a few of these "Linux isn't ready" threads are worded in a way that flirts with ill mannered and are quite often ill informed. Seeing as it's the response to these posts that troubles you, the old adage of prevention being better than cure has a lot of truth to it, why don't you write a lengthy post urging the "Not ready" posters to improve their tone?

bchaffin72
June 18th, 2007, 02:57 PM
While I do strive not to be intentionally rude to anyone, it does get bothersome to hear the "Linux should be more like Windows" and "I don't have to do this in Windows, so why should I in Linux?" statements. While they are both operating systems meant to run your computer, they are built on different concepts. No matter how user friendly/GUI oriented it becomes, Linux is never going to be Windows, nor should it be. Some just need to accept that, and if they can not, they should stick with Windows, or go buy a Mac(their choice). To come in here and make the same complaints over and over is a waste of space. Let's look at it in terms of a different product.

John Doe always drives cars with automatic transmissions. He loves that the car does all the work for him. Just put it in Drive, work two pedals and steer. Then he hears that if you get a manual transmission, you can save on gas if you drive it properly. So off he goes, buys one, and then says"Wait, three pedals rather than two?" How stupid. I have to put it in different gears myself, I never had to do that with an automatic. Why should I do it with this one? I also can't stand that I have to shift in a manner that keeps the engine from overrevving. Clearly a defective design." Then he goes to the dealership or local mechanic, demanding that these "problems" be fixed or he'll have to decide manual transmissions just "aren't ready for the road".

What do you think the responses are going to be? Anything from "What did you expect?" to "Get out of my face!"

P_Badger
June 18th, 2007, 09:30 PM
Honestly, I can't stand it for a second when people open up A WHOLE NEW THREAD with something along the lines of, "Gah! I can't stand Linux/Ubuntu anymore! I hate it! It doesn't put me to bed at night and kiss me on the cheek! WHAA!", and continue to rattle off some reason(s) why they feel the way they do. 90% of what I needed to know, I found out through searching the forums and google. And when I didn't find what I needed, what did I do? I tried to ask as *nicely as possible* in the forums, here.

For those people who think it's within their right to **** on other people's joy, LET the door hit you on the @ss on the way out. Xp is probably more your speed, anyway.

koenn
June 18th, 2007, 09:55 PM
I'm with these guys :

... but we do get a bit irritated by people telling us that the software sucks just because a button is in a different place. I don't see that as an attitude problem on the part of the people being annoyed by the complaining

We all don't mind constructive criticism. It's when the OP acts rude, flaming or talks down to us that we all tend to get our fur up.


And to post (implicitely or explicitely) about how Linux should be more like Windows, an answer along the lines of "then go use Windows [and don't let the door hit you on the way out]" is not rude. It's good advice..

macogw
June 18th, 2007, 10:39 PM
(see people advocating the use of swiftfox over firefox because "firefox isn't Free enough")

I think you mean Iceweasel. Swiftfox isn't "free." It can't be redistributed or modified or anything

jrusso2
June 18th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Most people in the world have never used a keyboard.


How many people know how to properly encode HD-DVD or BluRay to x264? Do I call them retards and tell them to RTFM if they ask for help with it? Of course not. I'll try to help if I happen to know the solution to the problem. What might seem rather straightforward/easy for one, might seem a complete mystery to the other.

Well I guess I am from another era. When I got my first computer it was before they were common in the home.

They didn't come with an OS installed so first thing you had to learn was how to install the OS.

So as a result we learned a lot more then the people who went ten years later to Best Buy or something and just bought one so they could be on the internet.

So its kind of like the first people who owned cars they had to do a lot of stuff themselves. Car's didn't do everything for you then.

Not only did you have to work the accelerator and the brakes you had to manage the fuel and spark advance.

So what i am saying is that people need to learn the basics of computing before you can even install linux.

You need to know what a hard drive is, what a partition is, what kind of processor you have, how much memory you have.

I mean if I go into an auto shop and start asking them how to fix my car do they have to start explaining to me what an engine is?

Come on people have some responsibility

to learn and the internet has all the answers if you look.

People have gotten the idea that they are entitled to you helping them even if they are not willing to do anything.

Sweet Mercury
June 18th, 2007, 10:54 PM
As a person who asks a lot of questions, I can't say I've ever encountered any rudeness. I've seen rudeness to other people, and it saddens me to see since I have such high expectations of how "community support" should work. The worst I've encountered is my threads being ignored.

Also, advising people to buy all new systems isn't really advice...


Just because something doesn't work for someone does that mean it has to be made better?

Well, yeah. If the goal of Ubuntu is to provide a user friendly alternative to the proprietary OSs out there, then its primary concern should be making it work better for more people. I'm not talking about making it work in the way more people want it too, but making it functional at all for more people. I am among the throng of new users facing issue after issue with my BCM4306 card. In that case, and many just like it, Ubuntu didn't work for me. Would you suggest that it shouldn't be changed because other people didn't have wireless issues? However, if the goal of Ubuntu is to create a niche product for 1337 h4x0rz!!1! to thumb their noses n00bs, by all means, don't try to expand the usability of the system.


Er....we have a search thing on the forum for a reason though... I can't be the only person who does a search before asking...it seems like the obvious thing to do. Asking requires waiting for an answer. Searching gets you an instant answer.

I'm a member of about 10 different BBS powered forums (and one Lithium powered); the search functions are invariably and universally useless. Boolean operators never effect or refine results, and quotations around phrases doesn't restrict results to matching phrases. They are a joke, plain and simple. It's true that you can isolate a Google search to a specific domain name, but hey, if the people were that savvy, they might not need this forum's help in the first place.

Plus, why would you assume that the people haven't done a search and not found what they've been looking for? I've started about 10 threads at this point asking questions, and each one was after hours, if not days, of searching for the answer already to no avail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And to anyone who is referring to repeat questions:

Most of the forum users are new. Most of them don't know that they aren't along in their computer woes. A good deal of them have heard the hype from Linux enthusiasts who suggested the switch because "Linux just works" and probably assume that their wireless problems, video card problems, ACPI and other issues are the result of their own foul-ups instead of major-but-as-yet-unresolved issues with Linux itself. If the question's already been answered, then why not just link them to the thread with the answer?

Sweet Mercury
June 18th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Well I guess I am from another era. When I got my first computer it was before they were common in the home.

They didn't come with an OS installed so first thing you had to learn was how to install the OS.

So as a result we learned a lot more then the people who went ten years later to Best Buy or something and just bought one so they could be on the internet.

So its kind of like the first people who owned cars they had to do a lot of stuff themselves. Car's didn't do everything for you then.

Not only did you have to work the accelerator and the brakes you had to manage the fuel and spark advance.

So what i am saying is that people need to learn the basics of computing before you can even install linux.

You need to know what a hard drive is, what a partition is, what kind of processor you have, how much memory you have.

I mean if I go into an auto shop and start asking them how to fix my car do they have to start explaining to me what an engine is?

Come on people have some responsibility

to learn and the internet has all the answers if you look.

People have gotten the idea that they are entitled to you helping them even if they are not willing to do anything.
*snip*

These are support forums, *snip*

Here's another thought. People don't buy computers because they want a project, which is what you're describing. People buy computers and install software under the assumption that it will do what it says it will, much like how people buy cars under the impression that all its systems will function properly.

xpod
June 18th, 2007, 11:22 PM
I think many users who come making those kinda "bye ubuntu" threads etc are really just making pleas for help in many cases.
Many are the self proclaimed long time Windows experts so confident in their own computer abilities that the prospect of actually "asking" a question......is just out of the question to many of them, so rather than come seeking help they start threads lambasting Ubuntu because they cant get their heads round it.And the help comes pouring in...lol
It`s not good practice just to tell them to "pi** off" though i dont think........not always anyway.


So what i am saying is that people need to learn the basics of computing before you can even install linux.
You need to know what a hard drive is, what a partition is, what kind of processor you have, how much memory you have.

Considering i only turned a pc on a few months pror to disvovering Ubuntu i never knew much of anything about computers so when i landed here i asked more stupid "seeming" questions than most and i cant say i ever seen any rudeness.

Exasperation possibly but never rudeness:D
This time last year I thought a partition was the japaneese room devider my wife has in the bedroom btw.:o

smoker
June 19th, 2007, 12:33 AM
This time last year I thought a partition was the japaneese room devider my wife has in the bedroom btw.:o

lol,:D brilliant, xpod!:D:D:D

xpod
June 19th, 2007, 01:35 PM
lol, brilliant, xpod!

You thinks THATS bad m8??
During my first weeks with the messed up Windows machines i was using at the time i must have somehow ended up with the American Keyboard layout(i didn`t realise this at the time) as my @ key was suddenly no longer working so what did i do????

I called up my isp to tell them my "@" on my Emails was`nt working](*,)
The poor guy on the other end didn`nt know any better than me though as he had to go away and ask someone else and the best they could come up with was "START>Programs>Accessories>acceessibility>On-Screen Keyboard.#-o...

That was my first weeks in front of the bloody thing admittedly and although i eventually learnt a fair ole bit about Windows during my short time with it nobody can tell me you need to know jack s**t about computers before you can use Ubuntu.

EDIT:You just need to be willing to ask dumb seeming questions instead of making dumb seeming statements about the thing

Johnsie
June 19th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Since newbies are the future of the Linux community I think they should have a say, even if they have a few complaints. A bad first impression could put someone off linux for life. A good first impression can make people want to get more involved and is good for Linux Publicity because they will recommend it to their friends. Word of mouth is a very powerful thing when it comes to the repuatation of a service or product. Anyone who runs a business will tell you that.

PartisanEntity
June 19th, 2007, 01:44 PM
I would not call it rudeness, but I have seen ome impatience when certain questions are asked that have been repeated many times. Sometimes, when such questions are asked, I try to make a friendly comment reminding people to use the search feature. We are after all human beings and cannot be under control 24/7/365.