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View Full Version : Why not .flac?



Incarnadine
June 15th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Why doesn't anyone share or download .flac files? Or am I just missing something? I searched for them on aMule, but found nearly no results. Are .flac files really too big for people? I think it's a way better alternative then all these MP3's out there. For starters .flac is lossless and you know that you can't beat that with a stick. Also you don't have to worry about downloading some music file that will sound like ****. Just because it says it's 192 bitrate doesn't mean it's 192! I am just hoping there is a cool website that maybe specializes in .flac files that host .torrents for them or maybe a P2P network out there that is good for .flac files. If you have comments, answers or thoughts then please post:popcorn:

FLAC is also OpenSource so show your support!:guitar:

Afoot
June 15th, 2007, 09:29 PM
I rip all my music into FLAC. Quality matters, and if space is needed you can always convert to .ogg.

Sunflower1970
June 15th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I've seen FLAC in the newsgroups before in the bruce springsteen binary group.

Erunno
June 15th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I'd actually prefer FLAC (or any other losless format) if I would buy music from an online store as I'd have the choice about how much loss of information I can tolerate when converting to a lossy format. Pretty much understandable why nobody uses FLAC for filesharing (hopefully legal, filthy pirates) as the compression ratio is 1:2 as far as I remember.

Incarnadine
June 15th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Wow just made the post and already a few replies! I hope this opens up some peoples eyes and also encourages people who don't know about FLAC to check it out:p I like how "Afoot" thinks. Indeed if the file is too big for you then just convert it down to OGG. It's another OpenSource codec and handier then an MP3:cool: With the new generation of HDD's though FLAC shouldn't be a problem with it's size. Ya maybe it will take a little longer to download, but just remember that you pay for what you get.

juxtaposed
June 15th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Re: Why not .flac?

Because most people on P2P believe whatever bad ripping program they use that 128Kbps is CD quality.

The same people who think transcoding from 128 to 320 will improve quality.

Warpnow
June 15th, 2007, 11:28 PM
The music on demonoid tends to be moderately .flac, but I hate it. too big.

I like my small in size .mp3s, I cannot hear a difference, at all.

UbuWu
June 16th, 2007, 12:23 AM
There is lots of music (http://btjunkie.org/search?q=flac) available in flac format. You just have to look on the right places.

gnomeuser
June 16th, 2007, 12:47 AM
FLAC is quality if you want quality - do it yourself or find an audiophile... information exchange site, these are mostly invite only and people only let in friends they trust. So tough luck getting in to the good ones if you don't already know a member well.

I have every album I own in FLAC, mostly I get my new music from Magnatune.com since they provide a good service, fair conditions, they share 50/50 with their artists in terms of income, they allow sampling as much as you like from their mp3 streams and when you buy you can get any format you like, Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, MP3.. you name it. And no DRM what so ever plus they encourage you to give 3 copies away, for a record label it just doesn't get more fair than that. So I feel justified in plugging them a bit here (and no I'm not getting any money).

PatrickMay16
June 16th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Flac files are really too big for some things.

NumberOne
June 16th, 2007, 01:43 AM
I use Flac. I used to download music from a site called "allofmp3.com". It is a pay site, but very cheap. I have not used it in a while. They usually offer all file formats for download. A lare selection to choose from.

Tundro Walker
June 16th, 2007, 01:46 AM
The same people who think transcoding from 128 to 320 will improve quality.

LOL! Brilliant.

Anyone who's ever done music on a computer will be laughing their butts off at this.

Enverex
June 16th, 2007, 02:24 AM
I personally use FLAC too. I convert them to OGG if I need them for a portable media player or anything (normally my PDA).

TBOL3
June 16th, 2007, 04:08 AM
I was very disappointed to find out my iAudio G3 could not have .flac on is. (but hay, I could probibly fit about ten hours of audio in flac on it, so it wouldn't of worked anyway)

ButteBlues
June 16th, 2007, 04:25 AM
I personally use FLAC too. I convert them to OGG if I need them for a portable media player or anything (normally my PDA).
For things I foresee in keeping for just about ever, I put in FLAC. This includes my personal CDs.

For music I torrent that I enjoy, I get MP3@320 kbps.

For music I'm not sure about and may just end up deleting after listening to, I grab MP3 @ V0.

laxmanb
June 16th, 2007, 04:28 AM
FLAC is an OK format, I guess... but really - file sharing & torrents for music are mostly illegal!!!

ButteBlues
June 16th, 2007, 04:36 AM
FLAC is an OK format, I guess... but really - file sharing & torrents for music are mostly illegal!!!
By whose definition?

I'm sorry - but I don't give a flying gentle caress about anything that RIAA or MPAA say.

zodmaner
June 16th, 2007, 04:51 AM
.flac is nice, indeed.

And you don't have to use them for illegal file sharing, you know.

I encoded many of my CDs into .flac format and store them on my hard drive for ease of listening.

tehkain
June 16th, 2007, 05:37 AM
I am such a nerd that i even rip my vinyl into flac. Now that is insane.

dptxp
June 16th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Flac uses lossless compression, there is absolutely no loss in quality.
WAV files are reduced to 50% of original size, in typical MP3 settings they are
reduced to 10% of original. MP3 is lossy, you can never get the original
back.

So for file transfer and storage considerations, the loss is tolerated.

laxmanb
June 16th, 2007, 08:09 AM
By whose definition?

I'm sorry - but I don't give a flying gentle caress about anything that RIAA or MPAA say.

Hey... the songs are copyrighted... if you love the songs, the least you can do is give something back to the artists that wrote/composed/sang/produced the song for you...

Macintosh Sauce
June 16th, 2007, 08:21 AM
FLAC files are so much better than AAC or MP3 files. I am in the process of converting all of my audio CDs into .flac files to play in Mac OS X and Linux. From what I have done so far, the files sound quite nice IMO.

Spike-X
June 16th, 2007, 09:12 AM
I obtain .flac files where possible, then convert them to VBR MP3s to put on my iPod.

ButteBlues
June 16th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Hey... the songs are copyrighted... if you love the songs, the least you can do is give something back to the artists that wrote/composed/sang/produced the song for you...
I do for independent labels like Magnatunes, or by attending concerts.

Realistically, big-label artists get jack squat off of record sales.

Spr0k3t
June 16th, 2007, 11:55 AM
I rip to FLAC then throw the originals in a box never to be played again. However, my portable and car stereo does not support FLAC or OGG, so I have to encode in either MP3 or WMA. No question about which one I choose. I share what music I can in FLAC... however, it's not very often I find something I can share.

ricardisimo
June 23rd, 2007, 08:59 PM
I do for independent labels like Magnatunes, or by attending concerts.

Realistically, big-label artists get jack squat off of record sales.

Sad, but true. Evidently, Springstein made more in one week of concerts at the Meadowlands (last year or the year before) than what he made off of every LP, 45, tape, CD or download in his entire career. That's pretty amazing - three shows is greater than twenty-plus years.

Similar stories with Bowie. He came out of his RCA contract not quite penniless, stopped worrying about making record execs happy and started touring. Now he's the wealthiest person in the biz, worth by some accounts well over a billion dollars.

So, yeah, the record industry has the same narrow corporate interests of any other industry. Helping out their workers is not one of those interests. And they have no one to blame but themselves for the problems that come from moving to digital. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

dowoshek
June 29th, 2007, 09:13 AM
I think it's a good place to ask my few questions abou flac :)

1. Is there one and ONLY ONE version of flac en- and decoder? I mean if it's being developed by one team only.
I just wonder if EVERY flac file ripped directly form CD or converted from WAV will be BINARY identical after decoding, no matter what presets of encoders where used and what encoder version. I'd like to underline: BINARY identical not "SAME HIGH QUALITY".

2. Can you suggest the best way (linux) to rip whole CDs into flac and the best way to record IDENTICAL copy of these CDs using previously ripped flac files?

Thanks

Enverex
June 29th, 2007, 09:43 AM
They wont be identical due to how Jitter correction and such works on CD drives (meaning even the WAV file you rip from discs won't be identical).

I recommend CDParanoia for ripping from discs.

dowoshek
June 29th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Yes, but I meant situation when original source CD and CD-player are in good condition. So I think then the WAV file is binary identical. So I repeat my question with such entry conditions :)

Enverex
June 29th, 2007, 10:47 AM
and the answer is exactly the same. I was referring to perfect condition drive and disc. It's just how they work.

dowoshek
June 29th, 2007, 10:55 AM
Hmm... and what about CDs other than Audio-CD? One badly read bit and software may be useless. And you'r saying that it's almost impossible to write and read CD exactly?? I don't understand.

Enverex
June 29th, 2007, 12:01 PM
Data CDs are different, those are bit perfect, but CDDA is different. You should probably Google it from this point out.

regomodo
June 29th, 2007, 12:27 PM
ha, just last night i was thinking that there should be a torrent host dedicated for lossless audio/video. I prefer flac but there is just very little out there. I have found some but it takes a lot of searching and trawling through dead torrents

regomodo
June 29th, 2007, 12:30 PM
They wont be identical due to how Jitter correction and such works on CD drives (meaning even the WAV file you rip from discs won't be identical).

I recommend CDParanoia for ripping from discs.

surely the servo bits are added in the burning process otherwise that'd imply you'd get more audio on the disk, plus poor tracking.

iladw
June 29th, 2007, 12:40 PM
FLAC is too big! It doesn't matter how good the quality is I don't it matters. An ordinary ogg or mp3 fits perfect for my sound taste.
If you're audio freak of some sort then you have really good sound system and you use ORIGINAL CDs and LPs from the production line - and not some crappy rip-off on your hard-drive.

For now I really don't see a reason why I should look for FLAC - which usually are in whole albums and not for tiny mp3s or oggs - one song that interest me only.

bobbocanfly
June 29th, 2007, 12:43 PM
If you are well connected try and get an invite for OiNK.me.uk. It has strict rules on only MP3's above 192kpbs (this is checked by the mods) and encourages sharing FLAC files. Everything is distributed in torrents that download at around 100-250kbps. Very good site

dowoshek
June 29th, 2007, 12:48 PM
Data CDs are different, those are bit perfect, but CDDA is different. You should probably Google it from this point out.

I think you are wrong. This is finally DIGITAL audio and also "bit perfect". So there can't be a difference between reading bits from cdda and data cd. The difference is only in the ogranisation of bits (no physical difference).

Wikipedia

Data structure

The smallest entity in the CD audio format is called a frame. A frame can accommodate six complete 16-bit stereo samples, i.e. 2×2×6 = 24 bytes. A frame comprises 33 bytes, of which 24 are audio bytes (six full stereo samples), eight CIRC-generated error correction bytes and one subcode byte. The eight bits of a subcode byte are available for control and display. Under Eight-to-Fourteen Modulation (EFM) rules, each data/audio byte is translated into 14-bit EFM words, which alternate with 3-bit merging words. In total we have 33*(14+3) = 561 bits. A 27-bit unique synchronization word is added, so that the number of bits in a frame totals 588. The synchronization word cannot occur in the normal bit stream, and can thus be used to identify the beginning of a frame. Data on a CD-ROM are organized in both frames and sectors, where a CD-ROM sector contains 98 frames, and holds 98×24 = 2352 (user) bytes, of which 304 bytes are normally used for sector IDs and an additional layer of error correction, leaving 2048 bytes for payload data.

BTW, please don't post information if you are not sure of it and didnt check - it's very confusing.

Enverex
June 29th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Go on then, try it yourself and prove me wrong.

dowoshek
June 29th, 2007, 01:01 PM
I already did :) Or maybe wikipedia is wrong too.
I have to backup few of my CDs, so will try few experiments so we can be sure ;)

Tomosaur
June 29th, 2007, 01:15 PM
FLAC is too big! It doesn't matter how good the quality is I don't it matters. An ordinary ogg or mp3 fits perfect for my sound taste.
If you're audio freak of some sort then you have really good sound system and you use ORIGINAL CDs and LPs from the production line - and not some crappy rip-off on your hard-drive.

For now I really don't see a reason why I should look for FLAC - which usually are in whole albums and not for tiny mp3s or oggs - one song that interest me only.

There are different reasons for using flac. One is that it's completely open, but another is that if you actually work with sound files, there is no acceptable substitute for lossless audio. If you do a lot of mixing, or general audio work, then lossless audio is irreplacable.

Turgon
June 29th, 2007, 02:00 PM
I don't share any music illegaly, but most of my music collection is in flac. Harddrives are so cheep these days, so space are not any problem. I can't really claim that I hear the difference between flac and a good ogg file, but I do hear the difference with files transcoded from one lossy format to another, and when I both want to keep my collection free and need mp3s or acc's for my phone (which sadly doesn't support ogg), flac is perfect!

regomodo
June 29th, 2007, 11:26 PM
If you are well connected try and get an invite for OiNK.me.uk. It has strict rules on only MP3's above 192kpbs (this is checked by the mods) and encourages sharing FLAC files. Everything is distributed in torrents that download at around 100-250kbps. Very good site

are you sure that works. possible crappy virgin media is blocking sites for me. allofmp3.com comes up with the usual "can't find server"

regomodo
June 29th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Go on then, try it yourself and prove me wrong.

well, i just did a module specifically on cd audio/r/rw dvd/r/rw and mo, and as far as i can tell all the servo data and efm is to account for errors in reading of data and to keep the laser in focus/track

44.1khz sampling @16bits (stereo) put into EFM plus other data (jitter) gives you ~4Mb/s data rate. so, assuming that all errors were identified and corrected the audio data retrieved and losslessly encoded, it will be no different to what will be burnt, assuming the burning app uses the same process of servo/jitter data.

of course if you get errors whilst cd imaging the disk (poor contrast/ lengthy scratches/big blobs of crap), it'll be no different from what you get from a lossless rip.

you say "prove me wrong" but you're yet to prove yourself correct

saying all this i didn't do well except for holographic storage section of the module. so, correct me if i'm wrong

Delirious
June 30th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Before moving to linux i had 99% of my music in flac +.cue sheets. Used flac frontend and EAC to rip and burn. In windows i used foobar2000 to play my music and it worked awesome, however im having a hard time finding its equal in linux. :(

Any suggestions for Flac with .cue sheets?

hanzomon4
July 1st, 2007, 12:12 AM
What is a cue sheet?

Delirious
July 1st, 2007, 12:21 AM
What is a cue sheet?

This can explain it better than i can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_sheet_%28computing%29

hanzomon4
July 1st, 2007, 01:43 AM
Oo... Cool, I might try making some for a few live recordings I have

jiminycricket
July 1st, 2007, 02:45 AM
All the bootlegs I download are FLAC, eg., from eztree or dimeadozen (legal)

regomodo
July 1st, 2007, 05:28 PM
Before moving to linux i had 99% of my music in flac +.cue sheets. Used flac frontend and EAC to rip and burn. In windows i used foobar2000 to play my music and it worked awesome, however im having a hard time finding its equal in linux. :(

Any suggestions for Flac with .cue sheets?

could you just embed the tags in the actual flac files? it's what i do as i find .cues a tad annoying

EDIT: misunderstood what you wanted to do. ignore above

Delirious
July 2nd, 2007, 12:30 AM
could you just embed the tags in the actual flac files? it's what i do as i find .cues a tad annoying

EDIT: misunderstood what you wanted to do. ignore above

Yah i actually thought of doing that today. Amarok seems to struggle to read them where foobar (what i used in win) works perfect. I think i can embed them with foobar, such a shame foobar isnt ported to linux.

regomodo
July 2nd, 2007, 12:51 AM
Yah i actually thought of doing that today. Amarok seems to struggle to read them where foobar (what i used in win) works perfect. I think i can embed them with foobar, such a shame foobar isnt ported to linux.

use cowbell. as long as it has something to go on, i.e the filenames has the track name in it, it can figure out the rest. it links up with amazon's database.

I found Foobar200 to be just as bad as Amarok reading tags with wmp11 being the worst

bone2006
July 8th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Mp3 wasn't released to the public until 1994 if I'm not mistaken. It took awhile for people to catch on. FLAC is much better way of sharing with others.
If I'm in a band and I want people to enjoy my music the best thing you can do to share with others, is create a FLAC album. Once a person downloads it, they can convert it to mp3, ogg or anything they want and they have the freedom to convert or keep it lossless.

Didn't we go to linux for freedom? Seems like FLAC just gives you more freedom

bone2006
July 8th, 2007, 07:09 PM
I do wish there was more software in linux for FLAC.

I think ripping a CD and using AccurateRip ensures you have a good rip on your HD. If another format comes out in another 50 years that better compression, better quality, you have nothing to loose, you convert it then. With mp3 your stuck with the quality loss.