United we must stand.... a proposal

[SunnyRabbiera]

I know I have not been here in a bit but thats because I switched to PClinux and am mainly now over at their forums...
But this is not about that.
This is about the recent Xandros deal with MS, once again another linux distro bows to Microsofts insane claims on Linux...

But never again, I think that we as linux users should do something and let the remaining commercial linux distros that have not sold their souls know we need to band together and not let MS bully another distro...
I propose this:
I think we should all get the big linux heads together along with smaller ones like Mepis and band united against Microsofts insane claims.
We are looking at gloom times, but if the remaining commercial distros can band together, Redhat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, linspire even Mepis... then we would have a good front against this recent cop out strategy by the others...
we can even get debian with us, band with the FSF on some front and fight MS at its own game.
Right now I am thinking of suggesting that we start gathering everything together before another linux falls into the empires grasp, I think we should talk to Mark Shuttleworth for starters and head on from there...
The reason why i would elect Shuttleworth first is that he has done good for himself with ubuntu, then move on to the others... the heads of redhat would be next followed by Mandriva and Debian...

[jgrabham]

I know I have not been here in a bit but thats because I switched to PClinux and am mainly now over at their forums...
But this is not about that.
This is about the recent Xandros deal with MS, once again another linux distro bows to Microsofts insane claims on Linux...

But never again, I think that we as linux users should do something and let the remaining commercial linux distros that have not sold their souls know we need to band together and not let MS bully another distro...
I propose this:
I think we should all get the big linux heads together along with smaller ones like Mepis and band united against Microsofts insane claims.
We are looking at gloom times, but if the remaining commercial distros can band together, Redhat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, linspire even Mepis... then we would have a good front against this recent cop out strategy by the others...
we can even get debian with us, band with the FSF on some front and fight MS at its own game.
Right now I am thinking of suggesting that we start gathering everything together before another linux falls into the empires grasp, I think we should talk to Mark Shuttleworth for starters and head on from there...
The reason why i would elect Shuttleworth first is that he has done good for himself with ubuntu, then move on to the others... the heads of redhat would be next followed by Mandriva and Debian...


hmm, shuttleworth, torvalds, etc in the same room, sounds like MS would plant a bomb and blame it on terrorists!

[SunnyRabbiera]

hmm, shuttleworth, torvalds, etc in the same room, sounds like MS would plant a bomb and blame it on terrorists!

doesnt have to be a real room, even if this is all in a chatroom it would benefit us...

[Adamant1988]

I really don't understand what this would accomplish, rather than more talking... Personally, I feel that these forums alone have wasted too much bandwidth bashing Novell, Xandros, Dell, and Microsoft.

[jgrabham]

doesnt have to be a real room, even if this is all in a chatroom it would benefit us...

MS would find a way!

[SunnyRabbiera]

I really don't understand what this would accomplish, rather than more talking... Personally, I feel that these forums alone have wasted too much bandwidth bashing Novell, Xandros, Dell, and Microsoft.

Yes but whats to stop MS when every distro is bought out by them, whats the point of linux then?
Two distros have sold themselves to MS, we cant let them have another and let them claim more crap on our rights.
Thats why I say we unite against them, collaborate and let MS know there will be no deals...

[jgrabham]

Yes but whats to stop MS when every distro is bought out by them, whats the point of linux then?
Two distros have sold themselves to MS, we cant let them have another and let them claim more crap on our rights.
Thats why I say we unite against them, collaborate and let MS know there will be no deals...

Itll never happen, they would have to buy every linux users right to the code!

[juxtaposed]

The whole uniting thing... That's just symbolic.

I can guarentee you that they won't make deals with every linux distro.

There will always be people with anti-corporate morals.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Indeed, but we really need to stand against them, MS has bullied two major companies whats to stop them from bulling another?
MS is the schoolyard bully that wants everyones lunch money, well I know they wont get a cent out of me...

[juxtaposed]

Indeed, but we really need to stand against them, MS has bullied two major companies whats to stop them from bulling another?
MS is the schoolyard bully that wants everyones lunch money, well I know they wont get a cent out of me...

But what exactly is "making a stand"?

Talking amongst ourselves how much we hate microsoft?
Getting all hyped up about how much we hate microsoft?
Telling everyone else how much we hate microsoft?

Are you trying to make this into some virtual epic type thing, where the forces of evil are attacking and everyone bravely makes a stand and saves the world from evil? :P

They are no threat to us at all. Some commercial distros will make deals with microsoft, but I can't ever see Debian or Slackware or some non commercial distro doing that.

[Adamant1988]

Indeed, but we really need to stand against them, MS has bullied two major companies whats to stop them from bulling another?
MS is the schoolyard bully that wants everyones lunch money, well I know they wont get a cent out of me...

Prove to me that those companies were bullied. I want one solid shred of evidence, a quote from someone involved, something, that says those companies were black-mailed, bullied, or otherwise forced into working with Microsoft.

[Spr0k3t]

Did you see the article posted about Xandros stating "there's nothing to fear" over the patents? Their intent on the deal with MS is actually legit... Xandros is wanting to license server components from MS to use in their server based distro. There's no telling what they are licensing though. One thing I find funny, after the guy did the deal the majority of the members supporting Xandros lashed out on their forums promising to leave to develop/support/use other distros.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,132721-c,linux/article.html

[smoker]

... But never again, I think that we as linux users should do something and let the remaining commercial linux distros that have not sold their souls know we need to band together and not let MS bully another distro...
I propose this:
I think we should all get the big linux heads together along with smaller ones like Mepis and band united against Microsofts insane claims....

i think this is a great proposal, the ms tactic seems to be to pick off distros one by one, they will never get them all, but it would be good to see a 'promise of not to deal' or some such agreement that would save ms even bothering to offer cash incentives. besides, these distros may think they are now safe from IP law-suits, but there are more sharks than ms out there, will deals have to be made with every, tom, ****, and harry, who says linux is infringing on their IP?

good move, and i hope to see some action along these lines soon:D

[SunnyRabbiera]

i think this is a great proposal, the ms tactic seems to be to pick off distros one by one, they will never get them all, but it would be good to see a 'promise of not to deal' or some such agreement that would save ms even bothering to offer cash incentives. besides, these distros may think they are now safe from IP law-suits, but there are more sharks than ms out there, will deals have to be made with every, tom, ****, and harry, who says linux is infringing on their IP?

good move, and i hope to see some action along these lines soon:D

Yes finally someone who gets my gist, MS's IP claims have made two distros bow down to them.
I mean honestly who's next to submit?

[smoker]

Prove to me that those companies were bullied. I want one solid shred of evidence, a quote from someone involved, something, that says those companies were black-mailed, bullied, or otherwise forced into working with Microsoft.

in my opinion, they've been bullied by believing the ms fud mill, but i think large cash incentives and greed have a lot to do with it also. the proof will come out in time, it usually does.

[_narayan]

This is the silliest thread I have seen in ages. What is it exactly that you think 'we' can do. 'We' are just a bunch of end users getting together over the net to provide each other with support. I think a little reality check is needed here.

[SoulinEther]

If it weren't for the fact that signatures could not have images, I would create a small graphic that we could use. lol. Otherwise, it would have to remain ASCII or something.

[smoker]

This is the silliest thread I have seen in ages. What is it exactly that you think 'we' can do. 'We' are just a bunch of end users getting together over the net to provide each other with support. I think a little reality check is needed here.

you're entitled to your opinion, but people read forums, 'not just a bunch of end users', infact, for all anyone knows, balmer could be reading this while planning his campaign from his ivory tower!

'reality check' - i'm sure i had one of those once:D

[Adamant1988]

in my opinion, they've been bullied by believing the ms fud mill, but i think large cash incentives and greed have a lot to do with it also. the proof will come out in time, it usually does.

In your opinion. The entire forum seems to be hell bent on suggesting that this is some kind of mob-esque racketeering technique on Microsoft's part, and never once supplied anything to prove that. All of you, every last one of you spreading this kind of thing with absolutely nothing to go on other than your (ignorant) opinion of the deal and the companies involved are every bit as guilty as Microsoft is of spreading FUD.

[kopinux]

that is where GPL version 3 steps in... i think.:KS

[Adamant1988]

that is where GPL version 3 steps in... i think.:KS

The FSF bothers me with the way they use the GPL as a weapon. They'll offer you freedom with that license, as long as it's according to their terms. If you play nicely with the law and do something they find unethical, they can change it right out from under you. the FSF should have guaranteed certain freedoms with their license, and left it alone, MAYBE a revision in language would be needed, but a major update completely for the purpose of alienating companies that have profited on Free Software is ridiculous.

Personally, if I was TiVo, or Novell, I'd be looking at BSD and hardware partners, but that's me.

[smoker]

In your opinion. The entire forum seems to be hell bent on suggesting that this is some kind of mob-esque racketeering technique on Microsoft's part, and never once supplied anything to prove that. All of you, every last one of you spreading this kind of thing with absolutely nothing to go on other than your (ignorant) opinion of the deal and the companies involved are every bit as guilty as Microsoft is of spreading FUD.

do you never think you could be wrong? well, good to have the voice of reason then, i think i'll agree to disagree, you know my views. i'll say no more on the subject to you.

[kopinux]

maybe the whole software patent is ridiculous

[Adamant1988]

do you never think you could be wrong? well, good to have the voice of reason then, i think i'll agree to disagree, you know my views. i'll say no more on the subject to you.

Absolutely, and I'll admit to it when I'm wrong. I've done so before, and I'll do so again. However, I just cannot completely agree with the hypocrisy that is displayed on a nearly daily basis on this forum by users pretending to be open minded.

"Microsoft created a way to link the Xbox1080 with Windows Armageddon Edition. They're trying to lock us in and enslave our souls... I have proof in the form of this blog-post by a person from the Free Software Federation! SEE!?"

Your view is irrelevant, it's just a matter of not taking to heart things that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You can be of the opinion that free software is wonderful while proprietary software represents a violation of user rights. That is perfectly OK by me. Presenting nigh-paranoid opinions as truth beyond any doubt is not OK and deserves corrected, lest you poison the mind of some other impressionable person with the FUD you spread.


maybe the whole software patent is ridiculous

I agree, patents have their place, but Software is not their place. I feel that copyright effectively handles the rights of Software companies.

[kamaboko]

I really don't understand what this would accomplish, rather than more talking... Personally, I feel that these forums alone have wasted too much bandwidth bashing Novell, Xandros, Dell, and Microsoft.

Exactly, and nearly zero on how to integrate Linux in the broader scheme of enterprise solutions.

[SoulinEther]

What if the internet blew up tomorrow? :O This would all be irrelevant.

[RAV TUX]

I know I have not been here in a bit but thats because I switched to PClinux and am mainly now over at their forums...
But this is not about that.
This is about the recent Xandros deal with MS, once again another linux distro bows to Microsofts insane claims on Linux...

But never again, I think that we as linux users should do something and let the remaining commercial linux distros that have not sold their souls know we need to band together and not let MS bully another distro...
I propose this:
I think we should all get the big linux heads together along with smaller ones like Mepis and band united against Microsofts insane claims.
We are looking at gloom times, but if the remaining commercial distros can band together, Redhat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, linspire even Mepis... then we would have a good front against this recent cop out strategy by the others...
we can even get debian with us, band with the FSF on some front and fight MS at its own game.
Right now I am thinking of suggesting that we start gathering everything together before another linux falls into the empires grasp, I think we should talk to Mark Shuttleworth for starters and head on from there...
The reason why i would elect Shuttleworth first is that he has done good for himself with ubuntu, then move on to the others... the heads of redhat would be next followed by Mandriva and Debian...

Why not start the perspective from PCLinuxOS, as a PCLinuxOS user?

[SunnyRabbiera]

Why not start the perspective from PCLinuxOS, as a PCLinuxOS user?

well I think the whole of linux can benefit from the idea and not just one distro...
and yes this message is on the PCL forums.

[igknighted]

Yes finally someone who gets my gist, MS's IP claims have made two distros bow down to them.
I mean honestly who's next to submit?

This isn't really about IP claims at all... MS can "claim" all they want, but could never ever pull the trigger. If anything, Novell and Xandros fleeced MS in this deal because they got things that are actually useful.

[ankursethi]

Stallman and the FSF are extremists, IMHO. Although I fully support the GPL v3 because it's seeks to prevent Tivoisation, I don't really like their stance about commercial, closed source software being unholy. And then we have people like Eric Raymond with their propaganda. I'm highly supportive of FOSS and I hate Microsoft as much as any other Linux user on this forum, but people must undestand that this is the real world, and in real world predators like Microsoft will use any means necessary to kill you. It's not about ethics back here, it's about survival.

Taking a stance against Microsoft will be a great move, but you must be prepared to face the consequences. Start with purchasing some webspace and start a sort of blog (like that Boycott Novell site) and keep it free of "hate speech". Write letters/emails to all major Linux distributors and developers and see if you can get their opinions on the matter. Email people inside Microsoft and try to find out if the IP claims are FUD or not. And so on. It's a lot of work. Still want to go ahead?

I'll just watch from the sidelines because I know that the IP claims are FUD and we have nothing to fear. Stick and stones might hurt my bones but FUD will never hurt me.

[kevinlyfellow]

Our real enemy is not Microsoft. Our real enemy is software patents. Jerk companies like M$ are everywhere. We are competing in the US software environment which is hostile towards innovation (fortunately, there is a patent cold war going on). If Microsoft isn't going to do stifle our innovations, then it will be another company that has an interest in not allowing linux to spread.

We don't need to band together against patent agreements, we need to band together against patents. What is happening with MS and linux patents will come and go, for better or for worse. Patents have the potential to stay.