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plb
June 9th, 2007, 04:15 AM
just curious.

tgalati4
June 9th, 2007, 04:50 AM
The next LTS of Ubuntu should be ready by then.

maniacmusician
June 9th, 2007, 04:51 AM
well, I'll stay with KDE :) I already spend most of my time in it. I'm really excited. I've been keeping track of the kde4 development and its already blowing my mind

RAV TUX
June 9th, 2007, 04:52 AM
just curious.I'm using KDE now....

hanzomon4
June 9th, 2007, 05:09 AM
I might...

I love Gnome but Sabayon gave me my first good kde experience and kde 4 looks pretty nice. It depends on what happens with kde-4, I don't buy the hype but the reality seems nice. I like how the kde devs are focusing on developing the sub-systems(?) before going on to the sparkle bits.

maniacmusician
June 9th, 2007, 05:23 AM
I might...

I love Gnome but Sabayon gave me my first good kde experience and kde 4 looks pretty nice. It depends on what happens with kde-4, I don't buy the hype but the reality seems nice. I like how the kde devs are focusing on developing the sub-systems(?) before going on to the sparkle bits.
well there are different devs working on different parts...all the sub-systems like phonon and solid are being developed separately, while aseigo and others are working on Plasma (the "sparkle bits"). They've also already gotten native kwin compositing, which is pretty neat.

It's all starting to come together now, and development is starting to accelerate. You should subscribe to Planet KDE to keep track of it all. and planet ubuntu of course :)

FuturePilot
June 9th, 2007, 05:38 AM
It would take a lot for me to go over to KDE. KDE just doesn't work for me. I have tried KDE many times so I'm not judging the proverbial book by its cover. If there's one thing I hope they fixed is that bug when you launch an app as root and it never starts.

yatt
June 9th, 2007, 06:03 AM
I've considered switching to KDE 3, but every time I use it, it does something to my Gnome install which is just unacceptable (usually it changes Gnome's resolution to something like 900x140)

reidms
June 9th, 2007, 06:09 AM
Ill try it- but I will probably stick to Gnome

KDE kinda scares me a bit because it reminds me of micro....micros..(what ever the name of that company is :p)'s gui (no offense meant here- just my opinion)

maharbA
June 9th, 2007, 06:15 AM
My first Ubuntu (Breezy) started with a K. But since edgy I've been using Gnome (I was playing with Beryl and Avant Window Navigator and I had to practically install Gnome to run them, so I switched).

To be honest, I probably wold have switched back when I fresh-installed Feisty (I did the upgrade thing, and it worked, but then I got to HDs at a yard sale and LVMed them, so I said 'what the ef') but now I'm waiting for KDE4 so i can be properly blown away. :D

NikoC
June 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM
I 'll try it out for sure but it will depend on how it 'feels' to work with whether I switch or not...

DeadSuperHero
June 9th, 2007, 07:13 AM
I tried KDE. It was nice, but it was a little too much like Windows.
I like GNOME. It's fun to have enormous icons for stuff, panels anywhere, and screenlets.
But everybody's different with their preferences.

steeleyuk
June 9th, 2007, 07:14 AM
I'll probably take a look at KDE4 but every previous time i've looked at KDE i've come back to Gnome pretty soon after.

tehkain
June 9th, 2007, 07:15 AM
I am a big gnome fan but KDE4 is looking good. The only thing that will help me jump the hurdle is if KubuntuKDE4 is done well. While I consider Ubuntu the best gnome distro, I like some other distros implementation of KDE betterthe kubuntus. I would use another distro but as a fan of the debain method and the ubuntu community it would be to hard to switch away.

PS. Is there a easy way to have gnome and kubuntu installed but keep them seperate? Like I rather not remove 42 KDE apps from my gnome menu. I am thinking about givin kde a shot.

GeneralZod
June 9th, 2007, 07:27 AM
As always, I feel compelled to warn would-be switchers to wait until KDE4.1 at least, as KDE4.0 is likely going to be extremely rough :)

fyllekajan
June 9th, 2007, 07:41 AM
I will definitely give kubuntu with kde4 a spin when it comes out and take it from there, but don't think that I will ever use it as my main DE. People have been hyping kde4 for years now so it's going to be very interesting.

LuisAugusto
June 9th, 2007, 07:54 AM
I love KDE, and the 4 series will be awesome, I like GNOME but it's too damn simple. And almost all my favorites applicatios are KDE (in fact, almost all GNOME users fav app is a KDE one, and it's called amarok).

See you ;P

ixus_123
June 9th, 2007, 10:54 AM
I'll take it for a spin.

I'm a long term Gnome user and like the simple interfac - I like XFCE too.

A guy I work with has KDE 3 with a minimal install on his BSD laptop and it seems to run quite well.

I'm interested to see what the new file manager (Dolphin?) will be like as I hate Konquer.

EdThaSlayer
June 9th, 2007, 11:51 AM
I might change to using KDE4, as long as it is faster than the normal KDE. The eyecandy does blow me away though.

petersjm
June 9th, 2007, 12:03 PM
I'm definitely looking forward to KDE4. Can't wait! I switched from Gnome to KDE back when I was on Edgy and loved it. In fact, I've just downloaded the 4.0 pre-release test LiveCD, which I'm about to burn and give it a whirl. At least that way, if it's too buggy (which it probably is right now) it ain't messing with my install.

mips
June 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Definately. Been a KDE user since Breezy.

Gargamella
June 9th, 2007, 12:29 PM
I switched from KDE to Gnome and I like gnome much more, even if I have to say KDE is better developed.
Anyway you know "De gustibus non est disputandum" ;)

Raffo
June 9th, 2007, 12:34 PM
I'm a kde user, so I'll surely use KDE4 when it is released. I'm now using GNOME just to try it (I'm not a noob, but I have used KDE for a lot of time because of the things I don't like in gnome)...

afljafa
June 9th, 2007, 01:03 PM
I installed Xandros today and was pleasently suprised with it`s KDE implementation. Never have been a KDE fan however I will probably run with it and would definately give KDE4 a shot.

Adamant1988
June 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM
I installed Xandros today and was pleasently suprised with it`s KDE implementation. Never have been a KDE fan however I will probably run with it and would definately give KDE4 a shot.

"Xandros is evil and by joining them you have sold out to Microsoft. Have fun in the pits of Redmond" - Me if I could actually think something like that.

Anyway, I'm very interested in what PLASMA will be doing for the UI. I hear that the kicker is dead, so that's good for me.

starcraft.man
June 9th, 2007, 01:18 PM
I somehow doubt it... I just seem to like Gnome and Beryl/Coral/Whatever its called, it just works for me. There's something about the KDE desktop that bothers me... just the way it is set up. Also, the obsession with k before every name I find to be irritating, like Apples practical patent on every word starting with i....

That said, I did install Kubuntu into a VM and will play around with it some, maybe I'll have a change of heart.

Erunno
June 9th, 2007, 01:20 PM
If there's one thing I hope they fixed is that bug when you launch an app as root and it never starts.

From my personal experience this is a Kubuntu specific bug as I never encountered it in another distribution. Plus, Kubuntu is unpolised, slow and ugly and I've always suspected that it was created to scare people away from KDE ;-)

deadowl
June 9th, 2007, 01:47 PM
I use KDE right now. While KDE has a bit more disorganized of an interface than GNOME, GNOME lacks a bit.

Problems I have with KDE:
-Disorganized interfaces/preferences windows
-Too many strange crashes
-Panels suck
-Adept sucks

Problems I have with GNOME:
-Lacking Magnetic Windows
-Lacking Reset/Cancel Changes in all preferences dialogs
-Unusable file collision dialog (on moving files)
-Lacking GUI for configuring the title bar
-Can't open certain applications at 800x600 resolution (Evolution)
-Lack of implementation for alternative titlebar buttons in themes
-No Amarok equivalent (I'll just use Amarok then)
-Lack of customizability in some sense

Shared problems I have with both environments:
-Inability to horizontally resize shaded windows
-Shaded windows don't group as easily as I should be able to group them
-Not distributed with free beer

plb
June 9th, 2007, 02:09 PM
I use KDE right now. While KDE has a bit more disorganized of an interface than GNOME, GNOME lacks a bit.

Problems I have with KDE:
-Disorganized interfaces/preferences windows
-Too many strange crashes
-Panels suck
-Adept sucks

Problems I have with GNOME:
-Lacking Magnetic Windows
-Lacking Reset/Cancel Changes in all preferences dialogs
-Unusable file collision dialog (on moving files)
-Lacking GUI for configuring the title bar
-Can't open certain applications at 800x600 resolution (Evolution)
-Lack of implementation for alternative titlebar buttons in themes
-No Amarok equivalent (I'll just use Amarok then)
-Lack of customizability in some sense

Shared problems I have with both environments:
-Inability to horizontally resize shaded windows
-Shaded windows don't group as easily as I should be able to group them
-Not distributed with free beer

You must have tried kubuntu :p Anyway I don't think I could go back to using gnome anymore, not that I used it much to begin with. But I just hate that attitude the developers have that "we know best" Classic examples, give them a menu editor 1 release...let's take it out the next. Or here, have a crappy crippled screensaver. Both KDE and Gnome have their problems, but I find most of the problems in KDE can be configured to go away if you take the time :D Anyway, I tend to find KDE apps superior for the most part. Not only that development is at a much faster pace and they actually seem to care what their users have to say unlike gnome.

racoq
June 9th, 2007, 02:28 PM
No way, i'll be sticking with XFCE. and i rather use Gnome than KDE. People keep talking about KDE, but for me in terms of usability and interface is/ was the DE that less developed in this area in this past years.

- Still, the same Ugly big KDE Icon on the taskbar
- Still on some things a cheap clone of Windows
- Still the same plastik theme (seems that in this new version they will hopely replace some of that ugly icons)
- Still that huge taskbar

Gnome at least evolved, (from the huge taskbar with that big foot), to a clean, beautifull and simple interface.

I think that KDE designers are too conservative in terms of interface.

The only thing in the KDE environment that i find it better over gnome, are the native and full featured applications that exist for this DE (Kopete, amaroK, etc...).

Andrewie
June 9th, 2007, 02:59 PM
I'm converting to kde 4 as soon as it hits beta

plb
June 9th, 2007, 04:29 PM
No way, i'll be sticking with XFCE. and i rather use Gnome than KDE. People keep talking about KDE, but for me in terms of usability and interface is/ was the DE that less developed in this area in this past years.

- Still, the same Ugly big KDE Icon on the taskbar
- Still on some things a cheap clone of Windows
- Still the same plastik theme (seems that in this new version they will hopely replace some of that ugly icons)
- Still that huge taskbar

Gnome at least evolved, (from the huge taskbar with that big foot), to a clean, beautifull and simple interface.

I think that KDE designers are too conservative in terms of interface.

The only thing in the KDE environment that i find it better over gnome, are the native and full featured applications that exist for this DE (Kopete, amaroK, etc...).

Everything you mentioned can be changed...ugly kde icon, plastik theme, huge taskbar...

GeneralZod
June 9th, 2007, 04:38 PM
Everything you mentioned can be changed...ugly kde icon, plastik theme, huge taskbar...

Yep. It's also interesting that the KDE designers are being accused of being "too conservative" as pretty much the whole default widget style, icon set(!), windec, and the desktop (as in background, "kicker", taskbar, applets, panels, desktop widgets!) are being thrown out and replaced for KDE4 :)

Spr0k3t
June 9th, 2007, 04:44 PM
I've been thinking about it for my desktop and will probably go that route but change the setup so that it is similar to how gnome looks in Ubuntu. I'll keep gnome on my laptop and other systems that aren't headless though.

racoq
June 9th, 2007, 05:13 PM
Yep. It's also interesting that the KDE designers are being accused of being "too conservative" as pretty much the whole default widget style, icon set(!), windec, and the desktop (as in background, "kicker", taskbar, applets, panels, desktop widgets!) are being thrown out and replaced for KDE4 :)

i don't buy that
i've saw the screenshots, of the development versions, that recently came out,

The big 'K' still remains, and the huge taskbar also, so same look as usual...

Adamant1988
June 9th, 2007, 05:16 PM
i don't buy that
i've saw the screenshots, of the development versions, that recently came out,

The big 'K' still remains, and the huge taskbar also, so same look as usual...

Because plasma is not fully implemented yet. Plasma is supposed to introduce death to the kicker (the huge taskbar).

AlexC_
June 9th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I read on one of the Commit Digests that Kicker will be replaced and the panel(s) will be drawn with Plasma very shortly! Plasma is looking to be very very nice and what that have planned sounds very interesting.

I'm pretty sure I'll be converting to KDE4.0 when it's out.

plb
June 9th, 2007, 05:26 PM
i don't buy that
i've saw the screenshots, of the development versions, that recently came out,

The big 'K' still remains, and the huge taskbar also, so same look as usual...

kicker is soon to be replaced. The first task of KDE4 was to port everything over. Now that it's done, other features will trickle in and replacing kicker is one of them.

racoq
June 9th, 2007, 05:38 PM
kicker is soon to be replaced. The first task of KDE4 was to port everything over. Now that it's done, other features will trickle in and replacing kicker is one of them.

If thats the case maybe i can try it, but it will have to be very different from what it is know, in terms of what i have referred.

Well looks like KDE is entering the 21st century in terms of interface :D

coder_
June 9th, 2007, 06:37 PM
I just switched back to KDE. I originally used KDE with SuSE as my first distro, then switched to Ubuntu with XFCE and Gnome when 10.0 came out, because it was terrible. Now, I'm back on Ubuntu with kde installed, and I'm loving it. I can't wait for KDE 4 too, it seems like it will be worth the wait.

diskotek
June 9th, 2007, 06:38 PM
i'm willing to try kde4, i think kde is kool (i tried it with pardus 2007), but i don't there is something bounding me to gnome (and also to xfce).
what's the kool thing in kde4?

bailout
June 9th, 2007, 07:30 PM
As a kde user anyway I will certainly move to kde 4 if I stick with linux but tbh as kde apps wil be usable on windows with kde 4 I may simply go back to windows. I am getting sick of the constant troubleshooting and fiddling linux demands and as I need MS office for work I can never really ditch it completely. I am quite disillusioned with k/ubuntu's failure to address bugs and problems that have been there for several releases now and don't really want to put in the time and effort to try another distro and learn that one in the hope that it might be any better. The big negative about kde4 for me is the replacement of konq with dolphin which just looks to be a dumbed down windows exporer style prog like nautilus and thunar.

mips
June 9th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Don't judge KDE based on Kubuntu...

GeneralZod
June 9th, 2007, 07:41 PM
The big negative about kde4 for me is the replacement of konq with dolphin which just looks to be a dumbed down windows exporer style prog like nautilus and thunar.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, with time, Dolphin became a superior file manager to Konqueror (although I think they're working on KPart-ising Dolphin, so I guess they'd be equal :)). Either way, you'll certainly be able to re-instate Konqueror as the default file manager with a few seconds of effort, so why even bother listing it as a negative?

maniacmusician
June 9th, 2007, 07:59 PM
I'll take it for a spin.

I'm a long term Gnome user and like the simple interfac - I like XFCE too.

A guy I work with has KDE 3 with a minimal install on his BSD laptop and it seems to run quite well.

I'm interested to see what the new file manager (Dolphin?) will be like as I hate Konquer.
Here's a recent article that has screenshots of Dolphin; it's quite interesting and I think it's looking beautiful. It's still got a ways to go, of course, but it's getting there. By the way, the focus of the screenshots is really the new oxygen icons, but it gives you a nice look at dolphin as well. http://davigno.oxygen-icons.org/?p=43


"Xandros is evil and by joining them you have sold out to Microsoft. Have fun in the pits of Redmond" - Me if I could actually think something like that.

Anyway, I'm very interested in what PLASMA will be doing for the UI. I hear that the kicker is dead, so that's good for me.
Aaron said that the panels might be replaced by the end of this weekend, and he'll probably include it in his next screencast. The previous screencast is located here, and just talks about some of the basic aspects of plasma: http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/1502.html


I wouldn't be at all surprised if, with time, Dolphin became a superior file manager to Konqueror (although I think they're working on KPart-ising Dolphin, so I guess they'd be equal :)). Either way, you'll certainly be able to re-instate Konqueror as the default file manager with a few seconds of effort, so why even bother listing it as a negative?

I agree, it's a trivial thing. I'm looking forward to Dolphin, though.

If anyone here really wants to keep relatively up to date with kde4 development, subscribing to Planet KDE is probably the most hassle-free way to do it.

AlanR8
June 9th, 2007, 08:07 PM
I like KDE and am puzzled by the comments about big task bars and icons.....

bailout
June 9th, 2007, 08:44 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, with time, Dolphin became a superior file manager to Konqueror (although I think they're working on KPart-ising Dolphin, so I guess they'd be equal :)). Either way, you'll certainly be able to re-instate Konqueror as the default file manager with a few seconds of effort, so why even bother listing it as a negative?

As far as I know there is no plan to add tabs to dolphin. It is a while since I tried it but I can't see that they have gone to the effort of developing dolphin as a simplified file manager just to add all the functionality of konqueror back in. I also don't believe that konq will maintain much development when dolphin is the default so as time goes by it will be used by fewer people, recieve less development and eventually die. I haven't heard anything about a kde browser either. I use Opera myself but is the assumption for kde 4 that people will use firefox and there won't be a khtml based browser?

GeneralZod
June 9th, 2007, 08:52 PM
As far as I know there is no plan to add tabs to dolphin.


People said exactly the same thing about the tree view.



It is a while since I tried it but I can't see that they have gone to the effort of developing dolphin as a simplified file manager just to add all the functionality of konqueror back in.


Konqueror is a general-purpose, network transparent KParts container, and is thus capable of a wide range of tasks, including web-browsing, document viewing, SVN app, etc. Dolphin is a dedicated file manager. So obviously they won't "add all the functionality of konqueror back in", but there's no reason Dolphin can't outstrip Konqueror as a file manager. It's already gotten features that Konqueror does not yet have, notably the use of KMetaData.



I also don't believe that konq will maintain much development when dolphin is the default so as time goes by it will be used by fewer people, recieve less development and eventually die.


Konqueror is far too well-liked for that to happen, and since Dolphin will ultimately be available as a KPart, all improvements to Dolphin can be adopted by Konqueror.



I haven't heard anything about a kde browser either. I use Opera myself but is the assumption for kde 4 that people will use firefox and there won't be a khtml based browser?

The default KDE4 browser will be Konqueror, as it is now.

Lord Illidan
June 9th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Aye, to me, any comment about KDE's omg so big taskbars and icons is as superficial as any comment about Ubuntu's OMG IT's BROWN!!. Cos, you can customise any of them in < 10 seconds.

I'm using KDE.

_narayan
June 9th, 2007, 09:06 PM
I'll be sticking with xfce

Sunflower1970
June 9th, 2007, 10:38 PM
I will be trying KDE when 4 comes out. It looks very slick.

Extreme Coder
June 9th, 2007, 11:10 PM
As a kde user anyway I will certainly move to kde 4 if I stick with linux but tbh as kde apps wil be usable on windows with kde 4 I may simply go back to windows. I am getting sick of the constant troubleshooting and fiddling linux demands and as I need MS office for work I can never really ditch it completely. I am quite disillusioned with k/ubuntu's failure to address bugs and problems that have been there for several releases now and don't really want to put in the time and effort to try another distro and learn that one in the hope that it might be any better. The big negative about kde4 for me is the replacement of konq with dolphin which just looks to be a dumbed down windows exporer style prog like nautilus and thunar.
Once you're good enough at a distro, most distros will be easy to get, mainly package/system management differences.
I'd suggest you'd try Fedora,OpenSUSE,Mandriva(or PCLOS) before writing Linux off.

luca_linux
June 9th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I'm already using KDE and Xfce.
I don't like Gnome that much, especially the kinda simplistic style/way it's going towards.

Anyway, KDE4 is gonna be great!

Matakoo
June 9th, 2007, 11:47 PM
I'm already using KDE, so I'll probably switch to 4 eventually. Once it is considered stable enough for production machines that is...

Having read through this thread and similar in the past, I just have to say I don't really understand the "KDE looks too much like Windows" argument. It sure can look like that, but it doesn't have to. Gnome, too, can remind people of Windows. Neither has to, and can be made to look however you want it to. KDE is, in my opinion, far more customizable than Gnome.

Then again, I'm biased since I can't stand Gnome. Personally, I think most distro-default gnome-settings are rather reminiscent of Win3.11..., and even leaving looks aside (default or otherwise), I feel handicapped using Gnome.

The only good thing about Gnome, as far as I'm concerned, is Evolution. I hope Kmail, Kontact and so on becomes as good one day. Because, right now, those are KDE's weak point. Just about every other program I use are either DE agnostic or made with KDE in mind.

TBOL3
June 10th, 2007, 12:29 AM
I was considering using Kubuntu for 7.04, but for some reason, I can't install anything from the 3rd party repositories. Which was no problem in gnome.

a12ctic
June 10th, 2007, 12:40 AM
No, i dont like KDE at all, it looks really messy and unpolished.

Compucore
June 10th, 2007, 01:03 AM
I have one of my dell computers with KDE LTS and my laptop with feisty GNOME. I prefer personally gnome. But for those who like KDE is fine by me. Its just a preference of GUI of which one you want to use.

Compucore

Omnios
June 10th, 2007, 01:06 AM
Srry but Gnome + Compiz more than meets my eye candy needs.

Only thing I miss from KDE is Karamba.

Anthem
June 10th, 2007, 02:09 AM
Probably. At least for a while.

I've never liked the stock KDE layout, but it's fixable. Gnome does a bunch of stuff to drive me crazy.

We'll see.

frup
June 10th, 2007, 02:50 AM
I will definitely try KDE 4, I may stick with it. I like gnome, especially Ubuntu's but theres a few little things that really **** me off. KDE fixes these but there are a few bigger things that annoy me in it, which if they are different in v4 will probably make me want to stick with KDE for while... but from what I've seen of v4, I will definitely be using KDE4 quite a bit.

maniacmusician
June 10th, 2007, 03:41 AM
I was considering using Kubuntu for 7.04, but for some reason, I can't install anything from the 3rd party repositories. Which was no problem in gnome.
that's actually quite impossible

guitarmaniac
June 10th, 2007, 09:10 AM
I have mixed feelings about KDE. Don't like the interface, but I love the apps (amaroK is pure concentrated AWESOME).
If KDE 4 is going to be as big as the hype makes it out to be, I may just convert.
I wish GNOME was as innovative, nothing exciting has happened in GNOME for a while now.

awakatanka
June 10th, 2007, 10:44 AM
I'm on kde and will stay on kde. It gives me the freedom i want and no restrictions. Hope it will stay that way in kde4 to. Power to the user and not to a dev person that thinks it bad for a user.

Also hope the make a standaard candy look, and not a boring look like they always had with prev. versions. First look is also important.

bobbocanfly
June 10th, 2007, 11:10 AM
If Kubuntu comes on live CD then i will download it an give it a go. Else i wont unless the screenshots look absolutely AMAZING as installing kubuntu-desktop last time wrecked my standard Ubuntu Install.

gamma
June 10th, 2007, 07:15 PM
I personally think KDE4 is being overhyped, but that's just me. It's also not a bad thing because it's generating hype and attention about opensource in general. I can't wait to give things a try, although Aaron has stated numerous times he's not going to "dumb down the interface", but instead present things in a neater fashion. I'm not sure what that means, but KDE3 seems to have too many options and too many ways of accessing the same options. I personally like the simplicity of Gnome and if KDE decides to go that route I'd be a happy camper.

maniacmusician
June 10th, 2007, 07:23 PM
If Kubuntu comes on live CD then i will download it an give it a go. Else i wont unless the screenshots look absolutely AMAZING as installing kubuntu-desktop last time wrecked my standard Ubuntu Install.
Of course, Kubuntu always has a live CD. But if you want to install KDE4, you'll have to wait till Gutsy +1, since KDE4 won't be on the gutsy CD. A beta version might be installable after you install it to your hard drive.


I personally think KDE4 is being overhyped, but that's just me. It's also not a bad thing because it's generating hype and attention about opensource in general. I can't wait to give things a try, although Aaron has stated numerous times he's not going to "dumb down the interface", but instead present things in a neater fashion. I'm not sure what that means, but KDE3 seems to have too many options and too many ways of accessing the same options. I personally like the simplicity of Gnome and if KDE decides to go that route I'd be a happy camper.
Yup, it is overhyped, and that is mostly a good thing. You just have to make sure that people are realizing that KDE4.0, the first release, will be buggy and nothing close to what's promised. There will have to be lots of bugfixes before that happens.

As for the options, they're all still going to be there. What Aaron meant was that it just won't be as cluttered. For instance, they'll have neater layouts in the configuration dialogs. Also, they might tuck away some of the more trivial options under an "Advanced Options" dialog, so that the main window doesn't have as many options. But they'll all definitely still be there. They'd never take away the configurability of KDE.

flawedprefect
June 12th, 2007, 12:21 AM
Yeah I'll put my hand up as a KDE apps user. I have mixed feelings after reading this thread about trying a full KDE environment tho (like Kubuntu). I am using the last updated Fiesty install (with a GNOME interface, I believe) and there seems to be a solution for almost every problem I've encountered via this forum... but on the flip side, I use Amarok, KTorrent, the KDE CDROM buring utility and think they all rock.

WinterWeaver
June 12th, 2007, 12:52 AM
>.<

now look what you guys have done! I was so happy with gnome, but now I just HAVE to try KDE.

I will admit, that I'm also using a couple of KDE apps, because they seem to be more finished and full featured apps. Many of the gnome apps seem as though they are unfinished and lack features.

just my thoughts.... so ya, I guess I'll give it a go ( T_T bye Ubuntu Studio)

WW

samjh
June 12th, 2007, 01:01 AM
I've always preferred KDE, but my current desktop at the moment is Gnome, because I find Kubuntu more unstable than Ubuntu.

When KDE4 comes with Kubuntu, I'll definitely try it. If KDE4 is as good as it's hyped to be, but Kubuntu still lacks quality, then I might change distros.

wolfen69
June 12th, 2007, 02:32 AM
It would take a lot for me to go over to KDE. KDE just doesn't work for me. I have tried KDE many times so I'm not judging the proverbial book by its cover. If there's one thing I hope they fixed is that bug when you launch an app as root and it never starts.

same for me. ive always found it to be very buggy. gnome has never given me a problem. also, RAM usage doubled while using KDE. i'll stay put, thank you.

wolfen69
June 12th, 2007, 02:39 AM
I use KDE right now. While KDE has a bit more disorganized of an interface than GNOME, GNOME lacks a bit.

Problems I have with KDE:
-Disorganized interfaces/preferences windows
-Too many strange crashes
-Panels suck
-Adept sucks

Problems I have with GNOME:
-Lacking Magnetic Windows
-Lacking Reset/Cancel Changes in all preferences dialogs
-Unusable file collision dialog (on moving files)
-Lacking GUI for configuring the title bar
-Can't open certain applications at 800x600 resolution (Evolution)
-Lack of implementation for alternative titlebar buttons in themes
-No Amarok equivalent (I'll just use Amarok then)
-Lack of customizability in some sense

Shared problems I have with both environments:
-Inability to horizontally resize shaded windows
-Shaded windows don't group as easily as I should be able to group them
-Not distributed with free beer

since when does gnome NOT have magnetic windows? it works for me.

GeneralZod
June 12th, 2007, 07:08 AM
also, RAM usage doubled while using KDE. i'll stay put, thank you.

This is a common misconception caused by the fact that ksysguard measures RAM usage in a different way to gnome-system-monitor.

See e.g.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2015680&postcount=1235

MadeR
June 14th, 2007, 09:16 AM
me, if kopete will work with proxies

awakatanka
June 14th, 2007, 10:17 AM
Some plasma action, remember its still alpha but it already shows some of its power. And if it can keep its promise it something totaly new and not seen in any OS if i'm correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuTVNClH5h0
http://www.kde-look.org/news/index.php/plasma+screencast?id=256&name=plasma+screencast&PHPSESSID=92d40adb813cb812337327ae6c515ff0

Its more then karamba our any other widget thing

GeneralZod
June 14th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Its more then karamba our any other widget thing

How so?

awakatanka
June 14th, 2007, 10:58 AM
How so?
Plasma can drag and drop on almost every part of the desktop. Karamba can possible do the same, but isn't optimized as plasma. And the info on there site isn't realy much so my opinion is based on the plasma screencast but i can be wrong as i was in the past ;).

Kimm
June 14th, 2007, 11:00 AM
I'll probably try it, but I cant say for sure that I'll switch. KDE4 sure does look sexy though :redface:

GeneralZod
June 14th, 2007, 11:15 AM
Plasma can drag and drop on almost every part of the desktop. Karamba can possible do the same, but isn't optimized as plasma. And the info on there site isn't realy much so my opinion is based on the plasma screencast but i can be wrong as i was in the past ;).

Fair enough :) It just seems to me that Plasma is (by far) the most overhyped and under-delivering part of KDE4, and so I think any claims the project makes should be treated with a higher-than-average degree of skepticism: so far, it really does seem (and aim) to be little more than "Karamba++".

Having said that, over the last few weeks or so it's gone from "practically zero code" to "something screencast-worthy", so maybe it will be pretty cool after all :)

LuisAugusto
June 29th, 2007, 11:43 PM
How so?

The real difference is that Karamba, OS X Dashboard, Gdesklets, Adesklets just draw some widgets, while plasma will hand a lot of the interface, there will be no kicker for example, it will be raptor, which is a plasmoid, so you probably could replace it easily, want a dock? You don't use raptor and use something else.

The clock in the raptor bar is exactly the same one that the desktop one, it'll just change his form.

With this kind of integrate "widgets" (plasmoids) will be very ligth and fast, a lot faster than current. And an integration example:Amarok won't have anymore a Player Window (the little XMMS style). Why? There's no need, Plasma could easily handle it, so you'll have a lot of "Player Windows" to choose from.

See you.

hizaguchi
July 13th, 2007, 03:18 AM
The only thing that will help me jump the hurdle is if KubuntuKDE4 is done well. While I consider Ubuntu the best gnome distro, I like some other distros implementation of KDE betterthe kubuntus. I would use another distro but as a fan of the debain method and the ubuntu community it would be to hard to switch away.

This is exactly how I feel too. I like KDE alot better than Gnome, but Kubuntu has the absolute worst KDE I've ever used. It's full of bugs that don't seem to exist anywhere else, many of which have been around for like 3 releases without getting squashed.

If I had time to play with Arch or another distro that doesn't screw up KDE, I'd be using KDE now and be eagerly awaiting KDE4. But Ubuntu is so much less hassle than most other distros that it's worth using Gnome for.

jclmusic
August 1st, 2007, 11:00 AM
will try it. whether i stick with it is another matter. i love gnome, but it seems to be lagging behind. if kde 4 does not do what i want, i will switch to xfce when gutsy comes out.

roaldz
August 1st, 2007, 12:33 PM
I'm also a KDE user. Gnome is so simplified, but I can understand that. The most people who are new to Ubuntu, come from windows (or still use windows) and aren't used to so many functionality as kde can give them. So, they will be confronted with the nice and slick (or sick, the brown doesn't look so healthy) looks of Ubuntu's gnome. Just after getting used to reading the book from the top left, they will be statisfied with the ease of use.

Kde is more extended in some ways.
Kde has kio slaves, and they are AWESOME. You can copy files from a ftp:// to a fish:// without a hassle.
Have you ever seen the K logo's with the gears? It means everything in kde is integrated into everything. So, the "K" is everywhere, very simple:D I can use Katapult to switch amaroK 's song, or to launch a program. I can configure everything with GUI's, like samba, if not I can edit config files.

Ever heard of devil's Pie? You don't need it, KDE already has that kind of usability.
You are able to configure almost everything!:D

The only thing I'm disappointed with is that Compiz/Fusion doesn't run smoothly with KDE, it does in gnome (same laptop). Well, KDE has developed his own compositing window manager, maybe I could use that.
But after all, that's not KDE's fault:)

And please, stop complaining about the looks, we all know that (linux) DE's are very theme'able. So, gnome and kde could both look very nice. But that's not why I'm using a computer.

If KDE 4 is released (or the beta's are around) I will sure try it.

ps. please be gentle, I'm Dutch

Hallvor
August 1st, 2007, 01:07 PM
Nope. I`ll probably stick with gnome. I think it is simple, stable and bloat-free. Might try KDE4, though, to see what the fuss is about.

euler_fan
August 1st, 2007, 02:23 PM
I've though about giving it a try . . . right now I run Gnome but prefer KDE apps over their Gnome counterparts (and live with the fact that I like dark themes but KDE apps in Gnome don't theme well). Namely K3b and TeXmaker.

Then again, I also really like Wifi Radar, Seahorse, OpenOffice, and most of the other apps built for Gnome/GTK. So I might try it on the partition I have set aside for testing just to see how I like things.

Erunno
August 1st, 2007, 02:26 PM
Then again, I also really like Wifi Radar, Seahorse, OpenOffice, and most of the other apps built for Gnome/GTK. So I might try it on the partition I have set aside for testing just to see how I like things.

OpenOffice is in no way a GNOME/GTK+ application. It has some (compile-time?) options to better integrate into KDE and GNOME though.

needtolookatascreenshot
August 1st, 2007, 02:28 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=519877

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 02:39 PM
I might...

I love Gnome but Sabayon gave me my first good kde experience and kde 4 looks pretty nice. It depends on what happens with kde-4, I don't buy the hype but the reality seems nice. I like how the kde devs are focusing on developing the sub-systems(?) before going on to the sparkle bits.

Yeah Sabayon makes KDE look great, while Kubuntu makes KDE look like a dried piece of crap.

bogolisk
August 1st, 2007, 03:06 PM
Who cares about the DE as long as it's not getting in the way! If the DE attracted too much attention from me then it's a bad DE.

It's the apps, luke. It's the apps.

For me it's: Firefox (browsing), Gimp (photo processing), Emacs (coding) and a Terminal (the rest).

Things like media player, torrent clients, etc. should go hide somewhere once started. That why I like Transmission as a torrent client: it'd disappear into the notification area. Music player should behave the same way once I've chosen the playlist.

it's the apps, luke. It's the apps.

Freddy
August 1st, 2007, 03:32 PM
Kubuntu wont use KDE 4.0 before the release of the next LTS +1, but I'm sure they will have a repository's for it.

I have no idea if I will use KDE 4.0, since I haven't even tried tried it yet and it might be crap, who knows?

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 04:07 PM
Well one thing the KDE devs are looking to take care of is the performance and stability issues, plus I think KDE 4 is gonna be a HUGE imporvement over KDE 3, for one thing KDE is no longer gonna look kiddy and cartoonish (I am referring to the Crystal SVG Icon Theme), the new Oxygen Icon theme looks fresh and realistic! Plus the integrated widgets (Plasmoids) look interersting (I used some on the openSUSE KDE 4 Alpha Live CD in a vm). Plus the new document viewer look good and Dolphin being the default FM rather than Konqueror might mean that the Dolphin devs might make Dolphin to be able to handle KIO-Slaves (I would LOVE that, since I hate Konqueror). Also the new media framework and the device framework look great! Can't wait 4 it. But Compiling KDE 4 on Sabayon could take hours! Well I bet they will do another release for KDE 4 and some updates, so I would just burn the new version to one of my trusty DVD-RWs and upgrade KDE 3 to KDE 4 with the CD/DVDs ability to upgrade an existing Sabayon install. But I am speachless that the next LTS of Kubuntu is not gonna have KDE 4, what are the peeps at Canonical thinking! It is a major release with tons and tons of improvements!

GMU_DodgyHodgy
August 1st, 2007, 04:19 PM
I will KDE 4 a look see. However, I most likely will stay with Gnome. Most of the applications I like are 'gnome based'. Exaile, Evolution, etc.

I will be looking at how well certain other applications function in KDE 4. Specifically DigiKam, Kdenlive, and GnuCash.

If KDE 4 gives a less cluttered, polished desktop with the apps I like running well in them - I may switch.

But....I have come to like the elegance of Gnome.

Anyway - its nice to have a choice nonetheless. Let's be thankful for these blessings available on the Linux desktop.

Freddy
August 1st, 2007, 04:22 PM
I am speachless that the next LTS of Kubuntu is not gonna have KDE 4, what are the peeps at Canonical thinking! It is a major release with tons and tons of improvements!
That might be cause KDE 4.0 will probably not be stable enough for a LTS release and they don't update KDE just give it security updates.

Sayers
August 1st, 2007, 04:25 PM
i might...

Freddy
August 1st, 2007, 04:27 PM
Who cares about the DE as long as it's not getting in the way! If the DE attracted too much attention from me then it's a bad DE.

It's the apps, luke. It's the apps.
.
Why are you even using a DE? You should do like me and install a *box or Enlightenment17 :).

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 04:27 PM
That might be cause KDE 4.0 will probably not be stable enough for a LTS release and they don't update KDE just give it security updates.

Is Canonical gonna at least test KDE 4 to see if it is stable enough for an LTS release?

Nunu
August 1st, 2007, 04:27 PM
Apart from looks is there any major functional ups and downs between the two. I would expect that KDE would use more memory the gnome.

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 04:30 PM
Yes, KDE 3 uses alot more resources than GNOME but KDE 4 is gonna use 30-40% less resources than KDE 3.

Freddy
August 1st, 2007, 04:35 PM
Is Canonical gonna at least test KDE 4 to see if it is stable enough for an LTS release?
Dunno, but you can be sure that KDE 4.0 will have a bunch or big nasty bugs and we don't even know when it's going to be released.

Yes, KDE 3 uses alot more resources than GNOME but KDE 4 is gonna use 30-40% less resources than KDE 3.
KDE 3 doesn't use a lot more resources than Gnome and how do you know that KDE 4 will use less resources than KDE 3, 30-40% less resources seems not likely and I would not believe that even if I saw it with my own two eyes ;).

fyllekajan
August 1st, 2007, 04:42 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/customavatars/avatar19792_2.gifhttp://ubuntuforums.org/customavatars/avatar19792_2.gif

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 04:59 PM
Dunno, but you can be sure that KDE 4.0 will have a bunch or big nasty bugs and we don't even know when it's going to be released.

KDE 3 doesn't use a lot more resources than Gnome and how do you know that KDE 4 will use less resources than KDE 3, 30-40% less resources seems not likely and I would not believe that even if I saw it with my own two eyes ;).

Well, I heard that was the plan, to make it so KDE 4 will use 30-40% less. And in my experience with Kubuntu, KDE 3 is a lot slower than GNOME.

needtolookatascreenshot
August 1st, 2007, 05:01 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=519877

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 05:05 PM
Funny, I have a different experience, though Kubuntu really is one of the worst KDE distros out there imho.

True and I have a good system. IMO Sabayon is the BEST KDE distro I have ever used, it does not use the vanilla KDE startup sound, instead there is this really cool sound. Also Sabayon makes KDE look good. While Kubutu makes KDE look like a dried piece of crap on the street. KDE 3 is faster on Sabayon than in Kubuntu, probably cause Sabayon is Gentoo-based.

celsofaf
August 1st, 2007, 05:31 PM
Certainly I will give KDE 4 a try when it comes out. Being a KDE lover as I am, I gotta do it. :)

fyllekajan
August 1st, 2007, 05:42 PM
True and I have a good system. IMO Sabayon is the BEST KDE distro I have ever used, it does not use the vanilla KDE startup sound, instead there is this really cool sound. Also Sabayon makes KDE look good. While Kubutu makes KDE look like a dried piece of crap on the street. KDE 3 is faster on Sabayon than in Kubuntu, probably cause Sabayon is Gentoo-based.

Sabayon? isn't that an overlay-mess gentoo derivative distro? Anyway KDE always felt more responsive than GNOME on my comps, especially the beta. Unfortunately speed doesn't make it look any better visually, so hopefully they also strip KDE4 from the visual bloat. Memory is not an issue I have plenty of it to go around but only one pair of eyes, and the KDE ui really hurts my eyes so looking forward to improvements there. :)

GeneralZod
August 1st, 2007, 05:52 PM
I would expect that KDE would use more memory the gnome.

Why do people just keep assuming this?

Check out http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2015680#post2015680, please.

BTW, the "30-40% memory reduction" should be taken with an absolutely gigantic pinch of salt - it sounds like someone literally just pulled the figure out of the air. Where did people hear these figures, anyway? And you can pretty much guarantee that KDE4.0 will take up more memory that KDE3.x as they won't have had time to optimise it, yet. Maybe later, in 4.1, say, but even then it's not guaranteed - extra features always have some cost, no matter how efficiently they are implemented.

Erunno
August 1st, 2007, 05:54 PM
Mandatory warning to over-enthusiastic people who don't follow 4.0 development closely:

KDE 4.0 will be mostly a framework release, many applications won't make use of new features or only in a very trivial way. There's also the question if all "standard" applications make it into the initial release and Plasma seems still to be in its infancy and won't probably make a big entrance. It's still not sure whether Ark or Kopete will be in and the Kicker / KMenu replacement is still MIA.

And expect a ton of bugs which will slip through the Betas. Unless you're a diehard KDE fan or an early adopter with realistic expectations who's used to breakage and bugs I'd recommend to wait at least until KDE 4.1 is released. The dust should have settled a bit by then.

bogolisk
August 1st, 2007, 06:07 PM
I'm also a KDE user. Gnome is so simplified, but I can understand that. The most people who are new to Ubuntu, come from windows (or still use windows) and aren't used to so many functionality as kde can give them. So, they will be confronted with the nice and slick (or sick, the brown doesn't look so healthy) looks of Ubuntu's gnome. Just after getting used to reading the book from the top left, they will be statisfied with the ease of use.

Kde is more extended in some ways.
Kde has kio slaves, and they are AWESOME. You can copy files from a ftp:// to a fish:// without a hassle.

in Gnome it's called... gnome-vfs. But really, I prefer fuse to all those DE's half-baked solutions which don't work with my shell.


Have you ever seen the K logo's with the gears? It means everything in kde is integrated into everything. So, the "K" is everywhere, very simple:D I can use Katapult to switch amaroK 's song, or to launch a program. I can configure everything with GUI's, like samba, if not I can edit config files.

Ever heard of devil's Pie? You don't need it, KDE already has that kind of usability.
You are able to configure almost everything!:D

different strokes for different folks. I'm out of time and I want the DE to get out the way. I've been using Linux since the SLS and kernel 0.9x days and I'm now tired of tinkering with my box unless I have to (to work around bugs like the DVD burning problems with Feisty's 2.6.20 kernel.)



The only thing I'm disappointed with is that Compiz/Fusion doesn't run smoothly with KDE, it does in gnome (same laptop). Well, KDE has developed his own compositing window manager, maybe I could use that.
But after all, that's not KDE's fault:)

And please, stop complaining about the looks, we all know that (linux) DE's are very theme'able. So, gnome and kde could both look very nice. But that's not why I'm using a computer.

If KDE 4 is released (or the beta's are around) I will sure try it.

ps. please be gentle, I'm Dutch

Freddy
August 1st, 2007, 06:33 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/customavatars/avatar19792_2.gifhttp://ubuntuforums.org/customavatars/avatar19792_2.gif
Huh?

samb0057
August 1st, 2007, 06:37 PM
ive always liked gnome better, kde seems to feel really glamorous but not have as solid and comfortable of a feel to it.

Espreon
August 1st, 2007, 07:01 PM
Actually it was 20-30% performance increase.

maniacmusician
August 1st, 2007, 09:48 PM
Actually it was 20-30% performance increase.
They're just making guesses based on the fact that Qt4 is much more efficient. what the hell does a performance increase mean to you anyways? it doesn't necessarily equate to less memory comsumption. Sounds like it just means that the apps will be faster.

Besides, as GeneralZod said, KDE4.0 will probably gobble down more resources than KDE3, due to many reasons. First, it won't be optimized very much, if at all; 4.0 will still largely be a testbed release, with the goal of getting in as many bugfixes as possible between 4.0 and 4.1 (that will be a lot). Also, the distribution of processing is much different than in KDE3, due to the presence of apps like Phono, Solid, Decibel, etc. In the long run, they may prove to be more efficient than the current system, but initially, they will almost certainly be worse.

I suppose it would be more accurate to say that Qt will be getting a performance increase and KDE apps will benefit from that to some degree, but they will also probably have a larger processing load and memory consumption, so I guess that's the tradeoff.

Nunu
August 2nd, 2007, 05:28 AM
Sorry i am a total nube,

SO there is a difference in performance between gnome and KDE.

I tried Kubuntu 5.04 once along with ubuntu 5.04 and it seemed that ubuntu supported a lot more devices then Kubuntu did. is this possible?

swoll1980
August 2nd, 2007, 05:34 AM
I'll be the first in line

Naralas
August 2nd, 2007, 05:43 AM
I plan on giving it a solid "try"

I don't like KDE because I need to change settings before I feel at home.

My favorite thing about Gnome is that out of the box most people can feel somewhat comfortable. With KDE it's a lot of "after I do this I'm right at home" which is just baaaaad. I understand not wanting to be like everyone else, but when you go that way then you should try and cut out bad stuff.

Default to single click? That just end's up making stupid old me (a keyboard addict who probably clicked on icon "a" to do something to icons "a" through "z") go ahead and open waay more windows than I intended too.

What's with every window having a border from hell?
Or the size and ugly gloss of buttons that make them look not only obnoxious but like they are taking up far more space than they need too? Ick.

If KDE4 tickles my fancy, I might stick with it a bit, but Kubuntu cannot compete with Ubuntu for user friendlyness, and it cannot compete with all the wonderful packages that make Ubuntu great.

I realize KDE has a lot of very sleek apps, and that gnome lacks here, but those who think Gnome is missing something, or is lite on features, kinda make me curious. I'm not l33t at KDE by any means, but Gnome does everything I need a desktop OS to do for me. WTF am I supposedly missing by not using "konfigure" before usage...

Naralas
August 2nd, 2007, 05:45 AM
Sorry i am a total nube,

SO there is a difference in performance between gnome and KDE.

I tried Kubuntu 5.04 once along with ubuntu 5.04 and it seemed that ubuntu supported a lot more devices then Kubuntu did. is this possible?

No. They are pretty much the same.
How the items are mounted, and how the applications work with them is questionable.

Example: iPods sync well with Rythmbox (gnome music player)
I don't know if iPods sync with Amarok (kde music player)

So it's a very understandable misunderstanding.

swoll1980
August 2nd, 2007, 06:03 AM
I don't like KDE because I need to change settings before I feel at home..

With me it's the opposite. This is totally a matter of opinion. I like everything about kde I like the windowisk feel to it plus gnome is just so damn ugly. These guys need to seriously consider changing the way this thing looks. I remember the first time I tried Ubuntu I thought "Why would they make it so freakin ugly" but I stuck with it anyways Then I tried Kubuntu, and it was exactly what I thought Ubuntu should have been like so I'm happy now. There might be a slight change in performence on a weak pc cause of the bouncing icons and other little effects

SkiesOfAzel
August 2nd, 2007, 06:03 AM
Well, i really hope they get it right this time . . . 9 years ago i decided i've had enough with windows and i tried something else. That something else was Mandrake linux . It was a little slow , but what really turned my off was the fact that it crashed more often then windows and with no apparent reason . Some years later i gave another try with similar results . In the end i tried gnome out of pure desperation and what made a difference for me and persuaded me that i can fully replace windows with a linux desktop , was the stability. I still keep track of kde development and try it whenever there is something new but no matter how technologically advanced it gets if they don't produce a rock solid release i will stay with gnome/xfce.