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Carrots171
June 5th, 2007, 10:15 AM
I may be getting a laptop soon and since I don't want a computer with windows on it I am considering a Macbook and a similarly-equipped Dell E1505N (pre-loaded with Ubuntu). If I get the MacBook, I'm probably going to use OSX and not put Ubuntu on it. I'm only planning on using it for basic tasks (mostly for school work and browsing the web). Which one would you rather get (or would you rather get something else entirely), and why?

stimpack
June 5th, 2007, 11:03 AM
Macbook hardware is beyond reproach. I have one and love it.

OS X is a different matter, it is dumbed down in the worst way possible (feature-strip). Astonishingly bad imo. *however*, that doesnt matter if you just want basic tasks :). I'd say the only downside from your perspective is Firefox takes an age to load.

oh and if your like me, its nice to have a foot in every camp, a ubuntu-box, a mac box and that other one for games, whats it called now?.... :)

Parmenion
June 5th, 2007, 11:08 AM
Well, considering that non-apple hardware is relatively cheap and that theres hell alot of nice quirky software specifically for macs, Id pick a mac over anything else. Its hard to get OSX to run on non-apple hardware while its simpler to get *nix to run on the apple hardware. Not to mention, macbooks look sweet.

steven8
June 5th, 2007, 11:18 AM
Macbook hardware is beyond reproach. I have one and love it.

OS X is a different matter, it is dumbed down in the worst way possible (feature-strip). Astonishingly bad imo. *however*, that doesnt matter if you just want basic tasks :). I'd say the only downside from your perspective is Firefox takes an age to load.

oh and if your like me, its nice to have a foot in every camp, a ubuntu-box, a mac box and that other one for games, whats it called now?.... :)

It's called an Amiga! :popcorn:

christhemonkey
June 5th, 2007, 11:20 AM
If i had the money, i would support dell in their ubuntu selling laptops.
Purely because if people purchase them, then they might open their eyes and realise that there is a linux market (and keep selling them!)

prizrak
June 5th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Macbook hardware is beyond reproach. I have one and love it.

OS X is a different matter, it is dumbed down in the worst way possible (feature-strip). Astonishingly bad imo. *however*, that doesnt matter if you just want basic tasks :). I'd say the only downside from your perspective is Firefox takes an age to load.

oh and if your like me, its nice to have a foot in every camp, a ubuntu-box, a mac box and that other one for games, whats it called now?.... :)


Their hardware isnt' all that great the Intel MacBook Pro's melt down and they use Sony batteries. They are made by ASUS by the way so if you want the hardware minus OS X there is a chance there ;)

On topic:
I suggest supporting Dell unless the hardware doesn't meet your needs in that case I suggest checking out System76.com they sell ASUS whiteboxes with preinstalled Linux.

HotShotDJ
June 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM
I didn't vote in your poll because I don't know yet. I'm tempted to agree with christhemonkey regarding supporting Dell's Ubuntu systems. HOWEVER, Dell has made some very odd and inexplicable decisions recently that show that they are either 1) incompetent or 2) deliberately making their Ubuntu offerings undesirable.

If possible, wait a few weeks to see if Dell gets their act together. Otherwise, I recommend a System76 laptop or the Mac.

saulgoode
June 5th, 2007, 02:08 PM
You might find this web logger's comments on the MacBook (http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/31) interesting for your trade study.

Carrots171
June 5th, 2007, 02:28 PM
HOWEVER, Dell has made some very odd and inexplicable decisions recently that show that they are either 1) incompetent or 2) deliberately making their Ubuntu offerings undesirable.

What exactly are these odd and inexplicable decisions?

Gargamella
June 5th, 2007, 02:36 PM
If i had the money, i would support dell in their ubuntu selling laptops.
Purely because if people purchase them, then they might open their eyes and realise that there is a linux market (and keep selling them!)

If I need a new pc or laptop, I would buy ubuntu-Dell all the way!

you right

aysiu
June 5th, 2007, 02:43 PM
Macbooks look slick, but I hate the way OS X behaves.

Yes, you can install Ubuntu on a Macbook, but it's kind of a pain to get it set up and working. If I were to spend money on a laptop for Ubuntu, I'd rather have Ubuntu preinstalled.

maniacmusician
June 5th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Macbooks look slick, but I hate the way OS X behaves.

Yes, you can install Ubuntu on a Macbook, but it's kind of a pain to get it set up and working. If I were to spend money on a laptop for Ubuntu, I'd rather have Ubuntu preinstalled.
well it's not really hard at all anymore, with the intel-based macbooks. The only thing that's a little troublesome, I believe, is the wireless, but ubuntu-tutorials.com has a good tutorial on how to get that working.

But I agree, I detest Apple, and wouldn't buy a Macbook. My personal choice would be either a Sys76 computer or a Thinkpad. If you're okay with the specs on the ubuntu dell laptop, that's a good choice too.

starcraft.man
June 5th, 2007, 03:24 PM
I'd have to agree with other people, no Mac. I don't like Apple. That said, I know a quite a few friends who bought dell and are happy with it. So I'm sure long as you like the specs you'll be happy.

mips
June 5th, 2007, 03:26 PM
Thinkpad.

ghandi69_
June 5th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I have a question...

Many on here talk about how great Apple's "Hardware is"

Where does this sentiment come from? When looking at a Desktop Pro.. they list the components (Intel Processor, Nvidia Video Card.. etc etc) and usually, I find you could build a similar computer on your own for seemingly half the price. Is the motherboard and memory they put in it(they don't tell you the company there) just that much better than other motherboards etc you can buy?? What makes apple hardware so great?

aysiu
June 5th, 2007, 03:57 PM
well it's not really hard at all anymore, with the intel-based macbooks. The only thing that's a little troublesome, I believe, is the wireless, but ubuntu-tutorials.com has a good tutorial on how to get that working. I guess it depends on your definition of hard. I've seen the tutorials for getting Ubuntu installed on Macbooks, and it doesn't look like fun to me. I've only gotten into Ubuntu and Linux because I happened to have Linux-friendly hardware. If I had to futz around to get things working, I'd still be using Windows.

tgalati4
June 5th, 2007, 04:00 PM
I can only speak for a G4, 15" powerbook. I think people like the form factor. The machine (for its day) packs a lot of power in a small, light form factor. Most Dells, HP's, and IBM/Lenovo's are thicker, heavier, and just overall clunkier than Apple's counterparts. Is this worth twice the price? That's hard to say.

Having an all-metal case makes the pbook pretty tough. Yes replacing the disk is a supreme pain. But you can also boot off of an iPod (with Firewire cable) or an external disk drive. You can boot the machine in Firewire mode so that your machine can act as a Firewire drive to another machine (assuming your machine doesn't have a power/motherboard problem).

The Tiger OS is simplified and not as customizable as Ubuntu, but it is polished and it works well with the family of products that it was designed for. Running Dapper for a week on my powerbook convinced me that Ubuntu was not quite ready on this PPC platform.

The audio and video quality is outstanding for its form factor. Integration with the iPod is best in class (despite all of the DRM and other restrictions). I've used my powerbook for the past 2 years, and it's great, but I have several desktops and a Dell Inspiron with Ubuntu, so I use both perhaps 50/50.

For a Liberal Arts college student--I would recommend a used powerbook (not iBook). For an engineering student, you may need Windows since a lot of curriculum uses Windows programs--so for that I would recommend a used T-Series Thinkpad.

Of course, I would recommend a System76 laptop for either type of student. Dells are too ubiquitous to be cool. And that's important for a student.

mustang
June 5th, 2007, 04:03 PM
I have a macbook first generation and I'm assuming you'll be getting the second generation. Do some research at Apple Intel subforums if you can.

The basic verdict is that you might have to do some kernel tweaking (ie changing sources files, compiling kernel) to get suspend to ram working. There is a guide to get wireless working without ndiswrapper. Also, power management is still poor under linux. Expect to get upwards of 2.5-3 hours versus 4 hours in OSX (on a fully battery).

I went with a macbook because Dellbuntus didn't exist at the time, I got a hefty discount, the build quality of the macbook, and I wanted to try OSX. (BTW-OSX isn't worth it. Ubuntu is much better by far.)

All in all, I wouldn't recommend it. Get a dell or look into the thinkpads (I believe they're running a sale right now).

mustang
June 5th, 2007, 04:06 PM
I have a question...

Many on here talk about how great Apple's "Hardware is"

Where does this sentiment come from? When looking at a Desktop Pro.. they list the components (Intel Processor, Nvidia Video Card.. etc etc) and usually, I find you could build a similar computer on your own for seemingly half the price. Is the motherboard and memory they put in it(they don't tell you the company there) just that much better than other motherboards etc you can buy?? What makes apple hardware so great?

I don't think the reference is so much to the internal components but the build quality. Looks do sell and not only do apple products look nice but they are fairly well built.

aysiu
June 5th, 2007, 04:19 PM
The basic verdict is that you might have to do some kernel tweaking (ie changing sources files, compiling kernel) to get suspend to ram working. Also, power management is still poor under linux. Expect to get upwards of 2.5-3 hours versus 4 hours in OSX (on a fully battery). This is what I'm talking about. Some people may not call that hard, but I do. I've never had to recompile a kernel, and I'd like to keep it that way.

In fact, I kept using Windows for a while on my Dell Inspiron 500m laptop because suspend wouldn't work in Edgy and Dapper. Once suspend (and resume) started working with Feisty, Ubuntu was my main OS on that laptop.

gashcr
June 5th, 2007, 04:53 PM
Macbook hardware is beyond reproach. I have one and love it.

OS X is a different matter, it is dumbed down in the worst way possible (feature-strip). Astonishingly bad imo. *however*, that doesnt matter if you just want basic tasks :). I'd say the only downside from your perspective is Firefox takes an age to load.

oh and if your like me, its nice to have a foot in every camp, a ubuntu-box, a mac box and that other one for games, whats it called now?.... :)

Wii??

gashcr
June 5th, 2007, 05:00 PM
I would go the System76 way. I would support them as they give a better support and have had the ubuntu initiative for a longer time.

maniacmusician
June 5th, 2007, 06:00 PM
This is what I'm talking about. Some people may not call that hard, but I do. I've never had to recompile a kernel, and I'd like to keep it that way.

In fact, I kept using Windows for a while on my Dell Inspiron 500m laptop because suspend wouldn't work in Edgy and Dapper. Once suspend (and resume) started working with Feisty, Ubuntu was my main OS on that laptop.
I see what you mean now. I was only assuming basic operability...for things like suspend to ram, it does indeed get quite complicated.

aysiu
June 5th, 2007, 06:08 PM
I see what you mean now. I was only assuming basic operability...for things like suspend to ram, it does indeed get quite complicated.
Suspend is pretty important to me on a laptop, so, yeah...

From Ask question about Dell & Ubuntu support (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2762048#post2762048):
Yes hibernate, sleep, and standby all work flawlessly. I got the Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950. I have to say...for everything being integrated...this laptop works wonderfully. If you are looking at getting the E1505N I would suggest only getting the 512MB of RAM from Dell and buy the memory else where. I found it for $58.00 a stick for the 1GB. If you want I can give you the site for that too.

maniacmusician
June 5th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Suspend is pretty important to me on a laptop, so, yeah...

From Ask question about Dell & Ubuntu support (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2762048#post2762048):
yeah, the Dells are pretty good. The problem for me is the limitation of the specs. It's understandable, of course, that Dell only started out with Ubuntu on 3 machines, but unfortunately, those just aren't good enough for me.

For anyone that likes those specs and are fine with them, I encourage you to buy a Dell with Ubuntu on it.

aysiu
June 5th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Suspend is pretty important to me on a laptop, so, yeah...

From Ask question about Dell & Ubuntu support (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2762048#post2762048):
I'm fine with even less than that. My current Dell laptop (Inspiron 500m), which I got years ago, is even fine. It's got a Pentium processor (not sure the exact speed) and 256 MB of RAM, and it flies with IceWM. I use Thunar, Firefox, Thunderbird, and GIMP with it, and that's fine. OpenOffice is a little slow to start... but I still find it better than AbiWord for .doc compatibility.

sin
June 13th, 2007, 07:19 AM
Mac hardware is ridiculously expensive for what it can do. If you can afford it, it works.
Also, Mac OS X sucks. But then again, there's linux for PowerPC.

Spr0k3t
June 13th, 2007, 07:34 AM
I don't like Dell, so that's out of the question. I despise Apple OSX, so uhm yeah. I'd go with a third. I like System76 for their Ubuntu support.

greg.hagen
June 16th, 2007, 10:40 PM
Hmm, if you are looking at Dell, you can save a LOT of money by waiting for a sale. Sites like Slickdeals.net usually post cheap dell laptops. I'm posting this from a Dell 1501 that has a faster processor (with the virtualization extensions :D ), and twice the memory of the 1505n. It's also $350 less than a similarly configured Ubuntu preload.

The downside is that this thing probably counted as a Windows Vista sale. Blech. I asked a sales guy over the phone if they could unload windows and throw an Ubuntu cd in the box and he acted like I suddenly grew tentacles and ate a puppy.

fuscia
June 16th, 2007, 11:24 PM
i'm still totally happy with my system76. one of the best purchases i've ever made.

stmiller
June 17th, 2007, 12:27 AM
Mac hardware is ridiculously expensive for what it can do. If you can afford it, it works.
Also, Mac OS X sucks. But then again, there's linux for PowerPC.

The macbook is intel. But yeah Dell is cheaper.