PDA

View Full Version : Is Ubuntu a shame for the other Distros ?



burek
June 3rd, 2007, 12:24 PM
Just to have a feedback from Professionals and ricers .... ;)

Pobega
June 3rd, 2007, 12:36 PM
Even though most people consider Ubuntu a godsend, I don't think it will ever replace RedHat and Debian as the true "server" distributions. There's nothing safer than running Debian on a mission critical server (Well, with the exception of NetBSD).

Ubuntu is best for those who are technically inept, too busy, or just too lazy to use other Linux distributions, because Ubuntu does most of the work for you and makes everything easier. But it's definitely not what IT Experts and SysAdmins would consider the perfect server distribution.

(This is in response to poll option number 1, "Will never be used for Servers at work")

Lord Illidan
June 3rd, 2007, 12:38 PM
Regarding servers, I work at a Maltese ISP, and the only distro they use on their servers is Gentoo, on account of it being easy to customize and strip down to their requirements, so as to be more secure. Otherwise, it is a great home distro.

Bachstelze
June 3rd, 2007, 12:40 PM
I don't think it will ever replace RedHat and Debian as the true "server" distributions.

I have to disagree here. Ubuntu is based on Debian so on a server, running an older Ubuntu, for example Dapper, makes very little difference with runing Debian.

That being said, Ubuntu is not my distro of choice either, so I answered "It's ok for both uses".

burek
June 3rd, 2007, 12:44 PM
Even though most people consider Ubuntu a godsend, I don't think it will ever replace RedHat and Debian as the true "server" distributions. There's nothing safer than running Debian on a mission critical server (Well, with the exception of NetBSD).

Ubuntu is best for those who are technically inept, too busy, or just too lazy to use other Linux distributions, because Ubuntu does most of the work for you and makes everything easier. But it's definitely not what IT Experts and SysAdmins would consider the perfect server distribution.

(This is in response to poll option number 1, "Will never be used for Servers at work")


Same experience here around, with our linux developers, they just talk and breath Linux Redhat & Debian.
I think too much ricers are misunderstanding Ubuntu distro and its "low" consideration from Linux Professionals.
That's just marketing like Vista ....

Ubuntu for ricers, yeah, I agree !!

brian j
June 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM
I don't think I'm "Inept" I bought my first PC back in 1985. I personally enjoy Ubuntu Studio for my "Heavy" production work over anything else actually!

Pobega
June 3rd, 2007, 12:47 PM
I have to disagree here. Ubuntu is based on Debian so on a server, running an older Ubuntu, for example Dapper, makes very little difference with runing Debian.

Yeah, but Ubuntu isn't as heavily documented, widely stable and thoroughly tested as Debian is. Each new Debian release comes with release notes to help with the transition of versions, to help with the transition from version *.0 to version *.1

Dapper Drake is "LTS", which basically means "It'll be getting no updates, but we'll be offering mirrors and paid support for it for three years". I mean, they could've done the same thing with any of the other Ubuntu releases. LTS doesn't mean anything to be honest, except maybe the occasional security update. As a "Long Time Support" release, Debian stable gets frequent security updates.

Edit: Oh, and in my last post I did forget to mention Gentoo as a server distribution. From what I've seen a lot of companies are making the switch to Gentoo from other Linux distributions, because I guess they need specific things compiled into their software. As a server Gentoo is very nice, but from what I understand it has a tendency to break more often than Debian and RedHat (Especially if your SysAdmin is a retard and emerges a masked package).

Edit2: Also, I'm in no way trying to insult the Ubuntu distribution. I feel that Ubuntu has it's place just like Debian, RedHat, Gentoo and Slackware do, but that place definitely isn't the server world in my opinion.

burek
June 3rd, 2007, 12:49 PM
I have to disagree here. Ubuntu is based on Debian so on a server, running an older Ubuntu, for example Dapper, makes very little difference with runing Debian.

That being said, Ubuntu is not my distro of choice either, so I answered "It's ok for both uses".

Ask a Professional, and you'd hear his reply ... lol
They do not like Ubuntu, by definition

Thank you for your trusts in Linux, let's bring up the Linux community

runningwithscissors
June 4th, 2007, 02:22 PM
Just the very cult-like attitude that some Ubuntu users have. You know how people see Gentoo users as ricers, Debian users as fat sysadmins and Linspire users as gullible?

Well, Ubuntu users seem a bit scary. Scary in the radical-brainwashed-cult-memeber-out-to-convert-people kind of way.

cunawarit
June 4th, 2007, 02:53 PM
Scary in the radical-brainwashed-cult-memeber-out-to-convert-people kind of way.

lol, now that I think about it, it does seem to be exclusively Ubuntu users that you hear saying how they need to convert; friends, classmates, family, colleges, local church, baker, etc...

Eddie Wilson
June 4th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Where I work our new IT expert, a young man, said that most of the people he knew in school that tried Debian went back to MS windows. Now I've never tried Debian so I really don't anything about it but I have thought about trying it out. As far as redhat goes, my isp dropped Redhat and just runs Ubuntu on their servers. He said that Redhat got too expensive and wasn't worth what they were asking. Also as far as trying to get people to try llinux, don't you do that or are you the type to say linux is just for our kind of people.(whatever that may be)

floke
June 4th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Why would anyone try to convert anyone else to Gentoo?

Good luck with that one.

Do I want a distro that: (a) I have to spend hours learning, tweaking, configuring etc. so that it works; or (b) that works.

Hmmmm. Do I need a rocket scientist to help me with this?

eentonig
June 4th, 2007, 04:05 PM
My 2cts concerning proffesional Ubuntu readiness?


Desktop = Ubuntu

And then it boils down to.

Big, non-IT companies => Red Hat/ Suse, because they want to deal with 'Companies'

SMB's and hogher with technical savy people => They'll go most likely Debian for stability. Or it depends on the pickings of the guru in charge.

SOHO's=> Ubuntu as server if they use Ubuntu as desktop.


That's not to say that other options/distributions aren' t viable or good options. It's just what I think will be the linux version with the highest chance of being chosen.

MetalMusicAddict
June 4th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Well, Ubuntu users seem a bit scary. Scary in the radical-brainwashed-cult-member-out-to-convert-people kind of way.

lol. Thats linux users in general. :) Or Mac users.

For me I use Ubuntu on 6 PCs in the house. Including my server. Suits me just fine. ;)

runningwithscissors
June 4th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Why the urge to 'convert' people? I don't have any issues with mentioning free software and Linux in casual conversation, but active attempts to get people to try it out is a bit much, I think. Leave the decision of whether to try it or not with them.

Adamant1988
June 4th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Just to have a feedback from Professionals and ricers .... ;)

As a user, I find that Ubuntu strikes an hard-to-find middle ground in it's free-software approach. Whereas Fedora, and openSuSE (and their corporate versions) refuse to deliver any non-free codecs easily. Also, aside from that, the only thing truly spectacular about Ubuntu has been it's viral marketing (which has resulted in the community).

patrick295767
June 4th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Where I work our new IT expert, a young man, said that most of the people he knew in school that tried Debian went back to MS windows. Now I've never tried Debian so I really don't anything about it but I have thought about trying it out. As far as redhat goes, my isp dropped Redhat and just runs Ubuntu on their servers. He said that Redhat got too expensive and wasn't worth what they were asking. Also as far as trying to get people to try llinux, don't you do that or are you the type to say linux is just for our k ind of people.(whatever that may be)

That's the problem. Marketing is a problem that influences too much.
I'd quote it since it is an opinion, that has or not to be considered. Read a lot, make a lot of trials of distros, in order to your own opinion / choice!! :)
(at least: 1-fedora, 2-debian, 3-gentoo. (& 4-Ubuntu) should be tried a single month with pushing far the testing limits)


The question is this one: what do you wanna do with your Linux machine ?

If it is just for surfing, having beryl kind of working, nice and slow installation, hardware compatibility problems&risks, just having a kde or gnome desktops , or having a nfs server (mini for home), without doing much... the Ubuntu distro will fine. You are already reachign the limits of this distro.
Since the development politics are very weird in the Ubuntu-distro, you have the risks of discovering amazingly weird situations & wondering 'what the hell ??', with time... I would say, Ubuntu is kind of okay newbies. Like automatix, it can break more than helping you :)

If you wanna push the level to the highest limits, making deb, developing, having a fast running server for companies, playing around with the deepest of Linux, you'd certainly NOT choose Ubuntu, of course. RedHat/ fedora & debian are well known names. Debian receives a great respect, but its marketing is not as the one of Ubuntu. Debian is the finest Linux, a bit like whisky. :) Multimedia & all kind of desktops & packages will work with Debian. Your packages won't need any forums or googling, since there is no bugs. The distro is made by lot of developers, with already more than 10 years of experience & passions. Gentoo & Fedora are references too. If you love this apt-get and cant like rpm, choose Debian.

Ubuntu is good for a first step in Linux, but but ... that can be risky too and make you return to Ms-Windows. As said above, Ubuntu has lot of returns to MS-Windows and causes the trials to other distros. The choice for a first Linux distro is a big thing...

____________
(Long Life to Debian & Fedora)

eentonig
June 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Automatix isn't an Ubuntu project. So just like it can break stuff on Ubuntu. Debian will have 3th party apps doing similar stuff that breaks things as well.

As with everything. "Beauty is within the eye of the beholder."

But, I agree that you can't say this is THE distribution.

Ubuntu has a focus on Desktops. So I would advice it (to at least try it) for a companies Desktop standard. (Which will be heavily modified anyhow)

Debian has a long and good reputation as being a stable linux. Off course. Marketingwise, this also plays against them, as they don't jump on the hypes. It's stable, but don't expect the latest toys. I would consider it a very good server choice.

(PS. Debian is the grandfather of a whole lot more *catchy* distriutions).

Fedora is the playground of a commercial company. When they want to test a new feature before releasing it in their commercial product, they launch it in Fedora. As such, it's a nice OS. But stability might be an isue as well. But hey, the ony reason I choose Ubuntu above Fedora, was it's community. So it's definitely a good choice to make. :mrgreen:

ThinkBuntu
June 4th, 2007, 07:07 PM
I'd never use Ubuntu on a server. With their focus being on desktop usability, what benefit would I gain over Debian? Personally, I'd run a server on Debian, Slackware, or Arch.

koenn
June 4th, 2007, 07:38 PM
I'm with these guys :

With[Ubuntu's] focus being on desktop usability, what benefit would I gain over Debian?


Debian has a long and good reputation as being a stable linux. ... as they don't jump on the hypes. It's stable, but don't expect the latest toys. ==> and that's exactly right for a server (for professional use - I don't think we're discussing a home server here).

In general, I think it boils down to pretty much what eentonig said - but slightly different.
- larger businesses with a strong preference for 'company support', SLA's, and no in-house linux guru : SUSE | RedHat

- businesses with a strong (linux-minded) IT dept : Debian or the resident guru's preference

- small/medium sized busineses and SOHO - most likely without in-house sysadmins or with an understaffed IT dept that is in charge of "anything computer" : Ubuntu (ancient African word, meaning 'I don't know how to set up Debian' :) ) or Windows Server.

Anthem
June 4th, 2007, 07:38 PM
What a strange poll. Several of those choices could be true at the same time.

Not sure I understand the title of the thread either.

koenn
June 4th, 2007, 07:40 PM
What a strange poll. Several of those choices could be true at the same time.

Not sure I understand the title of the thread either.
+1

arsenic23
June 4th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Some one here is going to have to define 'ricer' and explain to me how it applies to computing. As far as I knew it was an insult: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricer

loathsome
June 4th, 2007, 08:38 PM
hardware.no, Norway's largest web site with approximately 118664 members today runs on Ubuntu powered servers

koenn
June 4th, 2007, 08:40 PM
Some one here is going to have to define 'ricer' and explain to me how it applies to computing. As far as I knew it was an insult: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricer
I had to look it up as well. Apparently it's from rice- burner, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_burner, a derogatory term for (Asian / Japanese) cars modified to give an impression of high performance but without actually having had any real performance tune ups.
Applied to this thread, it seems to imply that Ubuntu compares to 'real' server OSes the way "ricers" compare to real power cars.

ThinkBuntu
June 4th, 2007, 08:41 PM
Some one here is going to have to define 'ricer' and explain to me how it applies to computing. As far as I knew it was an insult: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricer
The truth is, according to Urban Dictionary, everything's either an insult, a drug reference, a sexual slang, a sexual insult, a sexual drug reference, or an insulting drug reference.

jgrabham
June 4th, 2007, 08:44 PM
hardware.no, Norway's largest web site with approximately 118664 members today runs on Ubuntu powered servers

You have the coolest avatar ever!

loathsome
June 4th, 2007, 09:05 PM
Thanks! :lolflag:

Eddie Wilson
June 5th, 2007, 01:26 PM
I think that all linux distros are broken until you install them and set them up. And don't forget the updates.:D