Teens and Linux

[poofyhairguy]

Here is a neat blog entry regarding Linux and usage by teenagers- non geek teenagers.

http://frisia.middle-earth.us/archives/2005/06/29/linux-open-source-and-teenagers-whats-the-deal/

For most it states the obvious (media codecs are biggest problem) but it has a neat part on Ubuntu:



Ubuntu may be controversial as to how much of a positive it is to the community in general, but I believe that it is a net positive for Linux PR in the world at large. It does what we want: provides us with a functional desktop with as little fuss as possible. Make this better! Rock those lofty goals!

[rachii]

neat indeed, thanks

[poofyhairguy]

neat indeed, thanks

You are welcome.

[YourSurrogateGod]

Here is a neat blog entry regarding Linux and usage by teenagers- non geek teenagers.

http://frisia.middle-earth.us/archives/2005/06/29/linux-open-source-and-teenagers-whats-the-deal/

For most it states the obvious (media codecs are biggest problem) but it has a neat part on Ubuntu:
Ubuntu is needed by the Linux community if it ever wants to make a dent in the Windows dominated market (or prevent Linux from going away at all.) There needs to be a distro that can be installed and operated by a grade-schooler (which Ubuntu comes awfully close to that.)

[Optimal Aurora]

Personally, I like Linux, but then too I like windows... (go figure) but Ubuntu unlike other linux distros is much easier for lets say a none computer person to get to know and heck, it is really cool. Other linux distros however cater to one or another fields like fedora and redhat enterprise linux to the IT and corporate world and developers alike, ubuntu actually is simple (sorry if anyone takes that as an insult) enough to allow everyday average people to enjoy linux...

[polo_step]

There needs to be a distro that can be installed and operated by a grade-schooler (which Ubuntu comes awfully close to that.)
Installation is not so much the problem, as a lot of distributions will install fine on a lot of machines...of course a lot of distributions will not install on a lot of machines, too. :neutral:

The beauty of "Live" is that you can find that out one way or the other pretty fast and not wreck your life over Ubuntu if it's not going to work on your machine.

Given a non-exploding install, the real problem is getting it working in the way that a typical computer user is used to ASAP and Ubuntu still has a ways to go with that. I'm still nowhere close with my box yet and the learning curve is pretty steep -- plus I'm finding that a lot of the available programs simply can't do some of the very simple things I need.

On the other hand, kids are more energetic and flexible than geezers, so they can adapt faster than I can, maybe. :-P

[sonny]

It's a good article, I guess that Ubuntu really is changing the way people see Linux Distros, cuz it's making some of the stuff to work out-of-the-box. The road is still long, but we are getting there, and we are pushing up the speed with every improvement done by the community... and above all... people are starting to show support and simpaty for Linux, goverments in this case, and hopefully the Patent law won't pass in europe. We are going where we all want to go.

[qalimas]

I'm a teenager, but I'm pretty much considered the geek of my high school XP I run linux, have ran it strictly for around a year now :)

[man.life]

I'm a teenager, but I'm pretty much considered the geek of my high school XP I run linux, have ran it strictly for around a year now :)

My case is pretty much the same. But, IMHO, most of the teens only want to run:

MSN Messenger
Internet Explorer
MS Word

They don't care whether this "software" is not secure or whether there are free alternatives. They don't care Windows can crash because of a virus. Someone will repair it. Do you think they will download a 700 MB iso, learn how to burn it, learn how to partition a hard drive and learn enough things about Linux so that they can actually replace Windows? [-X

I did, but I don't imagine a lot of people I know doing it...

[bored2k]

My case is pretty much the same. But, IMHO, most of the teens only want to run:

MSN Messenger
Internet Explorer
MS Word

They don't care whether this "software" is not secure or whether there are free alternatives. They don't care Windows can crash because of a virus. Someone will repair it. Do you think they will download a 700 MB iso, learn how to burn it, learn how to partition a hard drive and learn enough things about Linux so that they can actually replace Windows? [-X

I did, but I don't imagine a lot of people I know doing it...
I think piracy plays a big role here (everything you said is true). If EVERY teen or their parents would BUY Microsoft Windows rather than go out and get a pirated .iso (sorry for my rudeness, it's the truth, specially in a 3rd world country like mine), I think they would be more than glad to try and find alternatives to paying over 500 dollars for Windows OS and MS Word. Also, when you're a teen that simply "goes with the flow" (heh, Queens of the stone age), you will believe all those ads and articles that say that MS is the only thing capable of running in your box ("It's us or a thousand more Apple"), thus ignoring the fact that Linux has evolved much more than the "super complicated, old and ugly stuff old hackers use".

Just like you, I took the right pill ;).

[sonny]

My case is pretty much the same. But, IMHO, most of the teens only want to run:

MSN Messenger
Internet Explorer
MS Word

They don't care whether this "software" is not secure or whether there are free alternatives. They don't care Windows can crash because of a virus. Someone will repair it. Do you think they will download a 700 MB iso, learn how to burn it, learn how to partition a hard drive and learn enough things about Linux so that they can actually replace Windows? [-X

I did, but I don't imagine a lot of people I know doing it...
That is correct... the main problem is that childs are born knowing how to use windows, cuz its what they fathers use, and what all their family uses; with rare ocassions like US. And teenagers don't want to learn anything (at least the average).

[bored2k]

And teenagers don't want to learn anything (at least the average).


I agree 100%. I don't know how many times I have been asked "Why do you use that ? Why do you even bother learning ? I do these and these things only: chat, listen to muziek and download *pirated stuff* ". The answer's simple: some of us crave knowledge. We also hate being one more of the pack. And last but not least, some of us don't like getting toyed around by a company's will.

People argue by saying the use their OS because it's easy and straightforward enough for them, but they forget the amount of hours they have spent cleaning their boxes from spyware and virus, all while having to keep an eye out for the latest crapware to pop up from their machinas.

[poofyhairguy]

"Why do you use that ? Why do you even bother learning ?


Why don't you just keep your brain shut and accept the cookie mother corporation is giving you?

[bored2k]

Why don't you just keep your brain shut and accept the cookie mother corporation is giving you?
Lol. I was about to turn all gansgta on you with a "Say what f0oL !?", but then I re-read your post :D.

But yes, I don't understand how people kick and scream 24/7 on how their "Oh so grandioso" freedom and libertinage is getting taken away from them, yet they sit on their computers why they wait for Mother Corporation to decide the future of userX's pocket.

[sonny]

I agree 100%. I don't know how many times I have been asked "Why do you use that ? Why do you even bother learning ? I do these and these things only: chat, listen to muziek and download *pirated stuff* ". The answer's simple: some of us crave knowledge. We also hate being one more of the pack. And last but not least, some of us don't like getting toyed around by a company's will.

People argue by saying the use their OS because it's easy and straightforward enough for them, but they forget the amount of hours they have spent cleaning their boxes from spyware and virus, all while having to keep an eye out for the latest crapware to pop up from their machinas.

I completly understand you, I get the same questions over and over, why learning?, there was a time when I thought it was truth, but as the time goes by, my mind has changed, my points of views are changed now. I guess that is something not everybody wants; eventhough they capable of doing so.

And we have to add that teenagers are immature, and want to fit in the group... that includes using the same OS.

[endy]

If we can get linux in the classroom we are sorted, especially when the eye candy revolution hits ;)

[bored2k]

I completly understand you, I get the same questions over and over, why learning?, there was a time when I thought it was truth, but as the time goes by, my mind has changed, my points of views are changed now. I guess that is something not everybody wants; eventhough they capable of doing so.

And we have to add that teenagers are immature, and want to fit in the group... that includes using the same OS.
You forgot the word most teenagers ;) (I'm an 18 year old child). But yes, I have seen people get away from learning because they're called names (imbecil, fashion-less nerd, non.social.boring.being -- personally, I like those adjectives :D). Most of us need to understand that the more we know, the better we get and teh better we get prepared for the future. When's the last time you learned something by clicking Next-Next-Next--Finish, chatting and not even knowing what's happening ? Do you need to be so dependant of others ?

Personally, I don't know what could I teach to someone who craves tech knowledge and wants to get out of the pact other than Linux. "Oh so you want to be a fearsome hacker ? -Oh ok.. I suppose you've learned a lot clicking next-next-next-finish in the past years right ?"

[sonny]

Personally, I don't know what could I teach to someone who craves tech knowledge and wants to get out of the pact other than Linux. "Oh so you want to be a fearsome hacker ? -Oh ok.. I suppose you've learned a lot clicking next-next-next-finish in the past years right ?"
:grin: Yeah.. the hacker's cookbook.. click next, then next, after that your finish... please click finish.. Now you've hacked your first bank database.

[DirtDawg]

:grin: Yeah.. the hacker's cookbook.. click next, then next, after that your finish... please click finish.. Now you've hacked your first bank database.

HA! :-P

[bored2k]

:grin: Yeah.. the hacker's cookbook.. click next, then next, after that your finish... please click finish.. Now you've hacked your first bank database.
I don't get it.. ](*,) ?

[qalimas]

And we have to add that teenagers are immature, and want to fit in the group... that includes using the same OS.

Most are, I started Linux at 13, it's now a full time OS and I'm still learning after 3 years. I do not consider myself immature :P

[egon spengler]

i disagree with the idea that teenagers don't like to use any OS other than windows because of some "coolness factor". i realise that we're all from different countries and cultures here but i can safely assure you all that in inner city london where i grew up there is no element of "you must use windows to be cool". truly, nobody cares, a computer is nothing but a tool to get your job done. as long as it can do what it is supposed to the average teen around here would not care.

even if there was a supposed coolness to windows, as much as teenagers love to conform they also love to rebel and be different. add that to the fact that teenagers are very often the ones most up on new gadgets and in my mind teenagers would be a fertile market for linux.

so why don't they embrace it more?

well firstly i think for those that know about the existence of linux the question is why bother? if all you do is use some form of im, steal/listen to mp3s, browse the net and write docs what real pressing reason is there to change os? sure microsoft do many offkey things but for the average person who uses their computer only slightly more than their microwave microsoft should not be at the top of their list of evil companies to avoid. also i should add that i think that the spyware/virus threat is very overstated. our downstairs computer is only really used when my brother comes over. he checks warez, porn and mobile phone download sites; all places where viruses + adware are supposed to flourish yet i'm still to find anything on that computer with up to date avast, spybot and adaware

the other and i think main reason why teenagers don't embrace linux in greater numbers is because so many of them just don't even know that it exists. like someone else said, getting linux nto schools where children can learn and become familiar with it is key. people that are not especially interested in computers just want to do what it is they want and be done with it. i see so many linux users who slag off windows as being too easy. this ain't gymnastics. nobody should care about technical difficulty, the only thing that should count is getting the job done.

i dont prefer linux because it is harder to use and i don't really understand why anyone else does

[poofyhairguy]

Most are, I started Linux at 13, it's now a full time OS and I'm still learning after 3 years. I do not consider myself immature :P


You are probably not.

The biggest problem with Linux and Teens (and heck, 90% of the population) is that its not hte default OS when you buy a PC.

[poofyhairguy]

well firstly i think for those that know about the existence of linux the question is why bother? if all you do is use some form of im, steal/listen to mp3s, browse the net and write docs what real pressing reason is there to change os? sure microsoft do many offkey things but for the average person who uses their computer only slightly more than their microwave microsoft should not be at the top of their list of evil companies to avoid. also i should add that i think that the spyware/virus threat is very overstated. our downstairs computer is only really used when my brother comes over. he checks warez, porn and mobile phone download sites; all places where viruses + adware are supposed to flourish yet i'm still to find anything on that computer with up to date avast, spybot and adaware

Great point. A person that knows what Linux is also probably knows how to keep a Windows machine spyware and virus free, thereby negating one of the biggest benefits of Linux.

As someone said in the other thread (my experiance tells me this is true)- Linux does the best on the desktop of people who basically believe that computers are magic boxes. But unfortunately this class of user would have trouble installing Linux and getting to to work like they would expect.

Thats why Linux needs to get shipped pre-installed on some machines. Damn MS and their agreements (that ban other OSes being sold at the cost of losing the ability to buy OEM XP).



i dont prefer linux because it is harder to use and i don't really understand why anyone else does

Some people want to keep Linux to the nerds. Of course this won't work for ever.

[man.life]

I've said many times to people: "I use Linux", but it's always the same answer: "What's that?".

Most people think "computer" and "Windows" are attached concepts. One needs the other. When Windows crashes or doesn't boot, they say: "My computer doesn't work". No, it's Windows that doesn't work...

As some of you said, if schools used Linux, not only would kids and teens know there are alternatives, they may even realize that Windows is inferior and talk to friends or parents about it.

[poofyhairguy]

Most people think "computer" and "Windows" are attached concepts. One needs the other. When Windows crashes or doesn't boot, they say: "My computer doesn't work". No, it's Windows that doesn't work...


That reminds me of the time my uncle's window install borked and he fixed it by buying a new computer (that he didn't need).

[sonny]

Most people think "computer" and "Windows" are attached concepts. One needs the other. When Windows crashes or doesn't boot, they say: "My computer doesn't work". No, it's Windows that doesn't work...
Yes.. I've seen the same thing... it's like poofy's uincle, he tought the OS came with the pc... those kind of things are the ones we have to fight, I keep saying; and I DO believe it, Linux users are educated windows users. If we educate people, they'll start switching to Linux; that or Gates will actually improve his software.

[BWF89]

Thanks for posting that blog.

Personally I think that Ubuntu needs a friendlier installer. I don't mind doing a little text based stuff but I think we need something up to par with Fedora's Anaconda installer.

[bored2k]

Thanks for posting that blog.

Personally I think that Ubuntu needs a friendlier installer. I don't mind doing a little text based stuff but I think we need something up to par with Fedora's Anaconda installer.
Yes I agree. But It also teaches you some valuable points on Linux:
- Do not fear the bash prompt. It looks ugly but its as fast and efficient as anything else.
- If you're a shallow person who thinks Linux sucks and It will all be archaic after seeing the GUI, you're not worth it. Go back.

But yes, I'd like a nice gui that lets me select packages. That I love.

[sonny]

Yes I agree. But It also teaches you some valuable points on Linux:
- Do not fear the bash prompt. It looks ugly but its as fast and efficient as anything else.
- If you're a shallow person who thinks Linux sucks and It will all be archaic after seeing the GUI, you're not worth it. Go back.

But yes, I'd like a nice gui that lets me select packages. That I love.
I agree 100% with it... but you have to see the other side of the coin... if a regular user who is willing to use Linux... he might not be able to installing, as he would, I guess that some explanations of what the options do would be helpful... It doesn't matter it is text based or graphical.

[bored2k]

I agree 100% with it... but you have to see the other side of the coin... if a regular user who is willing to use Linux... he might not be able to installing, as he would, I guess that some explanations of what the options do would be helpful... It doesn't matter it is text based or graphical.
In other words, Anaconda is great.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Piracy is one of the reasons I looked at linux. I have pirated THOUSANDS of dollars in software and music (I dont download it I share my BIG collection). As I got older my mentality has changed. I bought XP Pro and Photoshop through a employee discount program. Everything I use now is freeware, opensource and paid for.

Ill be 29 on the 3rd and have 2 kids. Things like that change your perceptions of things. Recently I stopped sharing my music via bittorrent fourms because I was inundated with PMs demanding that I post this or that. Mostly from teenagers (thread connection). This is a attitude I only got from younger folks. Kids who were only trying to amass the biggest music collection.Instead of workin for it or just using it to preview what they wanted to buy. In the end this get into a whole different area.

My point is that linux is great for teens because it shows the power of opensource software and free alternatives. Kids, you dont need to pirate. ;)