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View Full Version : Ubuntu Dells ARE HERE!!!



user1397
May 24th, 2007, 08:30 PM
EDIT: They're officially here: http://dell.com/open/

Price differences (this is with the minimum configuration possible):

Between ubuntu E520 and windows E520: $80

Between ubuntu E1505 and windows E1505: $79

Between ubuntu XPS 410 and windows XPS 410: $50

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen


They're here! Today we're unveiling our three consumer systems -- the XPS 410n and Dimension E520n desktops and the Inspiron E1505n notebook -- with the Ubuntu 7.04 Linux distribution factory installed. Available 4pm (CST) today in the U.S., the systems target the Linux enthusiast community and are a direct result of your feedback here on IdeaStorm. It's true… later today you will be able to customize and purchase Dell’s Ubuntu systems at www.dell.com/open (http://www.dell.com/open).


Just as you asked, the base price for each system is competitively priced and fully configured. Hardware support is available through normal Dell support channels, along with the option of selecting Ubuntu-specific support through Canonical, and a variety of software support options are available. Click here (http://www.dell.com/open) to read all the details about the configurations and the support options. And check out today's post (http://www.direct2dell.com/) on Direct2Dell to watch a vlog from Dell's Linux Engineering team sharing their perspectives on today's announcement. Be sure to stop by and tell us what you think on Direct2Dell.They'll be available in 30 minutes!

bonzodog
May 24th, 2007, 08:36 PM
This offer only open to those resident in the USA.

Everyone else, forget it. (for now).

Polygon
May 24th, 2007, 08:37 PM
aww how nice. they even offered their video log in .ogg format as well.

it shall be interesting to see how this turns out, hopefully for the better.

earobinson
May 24th, 2007, 08:39 PM
Im quite hyped to see hos this turns out

FuturePilot
May 24th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Im quite hyped to see hos this turns out
Me too.:popcorn:

scrooge_74
May 24th, 2007, 08:47 PM
This could be the begining of something....

Kannisto
May 24th, 2007, 08:55 PM
Me too.:popcorn:

Eternal September all over again. Suddenly all the Dell users will be asking questions here in the ubuntuforums.org

Rhox
May 24th, 2007, 08:59 PM
I doubt anything amazing is going to happen.

Channic
May 24th, 2007, 09:02 PM
I was hoping they'd have a extremely basic laptop for a little cheaper than $599. If it was about the same price as Dell's cheapest laptop . . . I'd pick one up.

rich.bradshaw
May 24th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Are we going to have to have a new forum for absolute absolute absolute beginners?

maniacmusician
May 24th, 2007, 09:16 PM
I was hoping they'd have a extremely basic laptop for a little cheaper than $599. If it was about the same price as Dell's cheapest laptop . . . I'd pick one up.
I'll be honest; their cheap laptops are complete crap. They will not hold up at all.

What I'm really worried about is them tagging the "n" onto the end of the model number. what does this really mean in the end? How much lower are the specs for the machines going to be?

Ahh, they just started accepting orders, I'm going to go check it out now.

hmm nevermind. they're not accepting orders, but I can "customize" the computers now and see what I can get out of them.

hmm, nevermind, again. I started customizing it, but I guess ti was a fluke. I'm locked out again.

maniacmusician
May 24th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Are we going to have to have a new forum for absolute absolute absolute beginners?
lol :)

reacocard
May 24th, 2007, 09:23 PM
It's online NOW! We can finally buy them!

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

EDIT: Maybe not, the customize links don't seem to work properly yet.

Raffo
May 24th, 2007, 09:23 PM
The site is up now, but it is unreachable because of the number of connections... unbelievable...

ep2011
May 24th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Yep, its up but its down because of too many connections... This is good and bad (shows quite a few people are on it)

prince_alfie
May 24th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Wow seems like everyone is logging on that website... oh well :) however I'm most excited about the whole shebang :)

gotta try back later on.

bash
May 24th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Well its a nice thing to see Dell actually went through with it and now offers computers with Linux. But I hope they will also market them not just kepp with "Oh well we followed the wish of the community and offer some stuff now".

What makes me think this?

Well just go to the Dell main page and try finding the Ubuntu option. Without knowing the URL or looking hardcore for it.

Kannisto
May 24th, 2007, 09:38 PM
Well its a nice thing to see Dell actually went through with it and now offers computers with Linux. But I hope they will also market them not just kepp with "Oh well we followed the wish of the community and offer some stuff now".

What makes me think this?

Well just go to the Dell main page and try finding the Ubuntu option. Without knowing the URL or looking hardcore for it.
They aren't trying to sell Ubuntu to their existing customers, they try to sell Dells for Ubuntu-users. It may change in the future but at this time it may be more profitable for dell not to advertise these products to their main customer base.

prince_alfie
May 24th, 2007, 09:39 PM
They aren't trying to sell Ubuntu to their existing customers, they try to sell Dells for Ubuntu-users. It may change in the future but at this time it may be more profitable for dell not to advertise these products to their main customer base.

Why would it be profitable not to advertise this option prominently?

smithman89
May 24th, 2007, 09:40 PM
This is big news, im happy that now the general public will realize that there is an alternative to windows. Also, im sure that many will take this offer rather than pay $200+ extra for Vista and things like that. Although, why ship only those 3 computer types with Ubuntu? Shouldn't Dell offer Ubuntu with at least the better half of the product line? Or is it that they may lose money by doing that?

helliewm
May 24th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Yep I can't get on line either. They have a linux forum that is unreachable too. May be the pre absolute beginners will go there first?

I can see us being really busy supporting pre absolute beginners who want a free OS :)

Helen

DoctorMO
May 24th, 2007, 09:47 PM
It'd odd but if I was Dell I would have just stuck ubuntu on as an option for every machine. I mean what the hell are they doing releasing specific models?

I call this: *gimmick*

prince_alfie
May 24th, 2007, 09:50 PM
It'd odd but if I was Dell I would have just stuck ubuntu on as an option for every machine. I mean what the hell are they doing releasing specific models?

I call this: *gimmick*

they have to preconfig the individual components for each system to work out the box with ubuntu rather than having it tweaked on initially by the user.

Kannisto
May 24th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Why would it be profitable not to advertise this option prominently?
For multiple reasons...
They may prefer steady growth to rapid one, scaling production up fast isn't usually cheap.
However most likely reason is that they don't wan't to confuse their main customers, who currently are the Windows-line customers.
Also exclusive marketing deals with Microsoft come to mind "Promote Vista and only Vista on your frontpage", but maybe that's just me being paranoid...

hkgonra
May 24th, 2007, 10:03 PM
:cry:](*,)](*,)](*,)

No AMD systems ?! :cry::cry::cry:

Starks
May 24th, 2007, 10:09 PM
For multiple reasons...
They may prefer steady growth to rapid one, scaling production up fast isn't usually cheap.
However most likely reason is that they don't wan't to confuse their main customers, who currently are the Windows-line customers.
Also exclusive marketing deals with Microsoft come to mind "Promote Vista and only Vista on your frontpage", but maybe that's just me being paranoid...
If you refresh Dell's front page enough, you'll see this banner.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/brand/billboard/728/hp_linux_728x228.jpg

aidanr
May 24th, 2007, 10:13 PM
Well just go to the Dell main page and try finding the Ubuntu option. Without knowing the URL or looking hardcore for it.

it's advertised on the us site (http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us), just hit refresh a few times and you can go to the notebook or desktop dropdown and there is a link to opensource pc's

the systems look pretty decent, i'd be happy to recommend one to anybody, although i'll still build for myself on the desktop side, but i would buy the laptop

250 for a year of standard support, anyone know the price for 1 year vista support?

maniacmusician
May 24th, 2007, 10:15 PM
:cry:](*,)](*,)](*,)

No AMD systems ?! :cry::cry::cry:
Intel is ahead in the processor game right now. It's the logical choice.

It'd odd but if I was Dell I would have just stuck ubuntu on as an option for every machine. I mean what the hell are they doing releasing specific models?

I call this: *gimmick*
They can't just stick an OS on there. They put these three models through rigorous testing, and more than likely changed the config around a little bit to make sure everything was running smoothly. They would get bad response if they just stuck it on there and shipped it.

Well its a nice thing to see Dell actually went through with it and now offers computers with Linux. But I hope they will also market them not just kepp with "Oh well we followed the wish of the community and offer some stuff now".

What makes me think this?

Well just go to the Dell main page and try finding the Ubuntu option. Without knowing the URL or looking hardcore for it.
Dell's not stupid. They're not going to take a linux operating system and just push it out to the public. It would cause mass chaos, not to mention it would irrevocably damage their relationship with Microsoft.

Think of this as a test pilot program. They're seeing how well Ubuntu out-of-the-box works for Linux users. On this first release, they're focusing on hardware compatibility, and a general "how well does it work" kind of thing. Next time, they say they'll be focusing on codecs and ease of use. Eventually, if they get good enough feedback from this, and they feel that they can expand it further, they may do that.

For now, at least we finally have a major OEM shipping linux.

Mazza558
May 24th, 2007, 10:16 PM
The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don’t get a Windows® operating system. If you’re here by mistake and you are looking for a Dell PC with Windows, please use the following link.

Shop Dell PCs with Windows

Doesn't this just drive newcomers away?

I guess it does need to be said, but it would be nice to show what ubuntu is at the very least.

Cows
May 24th, 2007, 10:16 PM
I was hoping they'd have a extremely basic laptop for a little cheaper than $599. If it was about the same price as Dell's cheapest laptop . . . I'd pick one up.

You know what sux? That I probably know that Dell's cheapest laptop can run ubuntu 7.04 right off the bat. So if I was going to buy a dell laptop I would just buy there cheapest laptop w/ 2x 512 mb ram and just install ubuntu for cheap. That would be like $644.00, but at the prices that the laptops r at now.. I would rather just add $100-200 more bucks and get OSX.

Starks
May 24th, 2007, 10:16 PM
it's advertised on the us site (http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us), just hit refresh a few times and you can go to the notebook or desktop dropdown and there is a link to opensource pc's

the systems look pretty decent, i'd be happy to recommend one to anybody, although i'll still build for myself on the desktop side, but i would buy the laptop

250 for a year of standard support, anyone know the price for 1 year vista support?

I don't see it... Got a screenie?

bash
May 24th, 2007, 10:17 PM
Just compared the "normal" Dimension E520 to "our" E520n. Looks like with the same configuration the Ubuntu model is 80$ cheaper. Haven't checked for the other two models yet.

stmiller
May 24th, 2007, 10:19 PM
Yeah laptop is $100 cheaper than equal windows counterpart. Quite a difference in price. I think they will sell like crazy.

Cows
May 24th, 2007, 10:23 PM
Well it said that to me also but when you click buy now it shows you the price "$799.99".

meng
May 24th, 2007, 10:23 PM
Apparently Dell's internal predictions were <1% Ubuntu sales this year, out of ~20,000 total sales. "Obviously" that's a small fraction of the market for Linux systems in the US this year, so the question is what proportion of prospective buyers will look at Dell?
(Obviously, <1 buyer/day on average should not lead to a website server overload ... but of course today will not be representative of usual traffic!)
I think it's exciting, but I agree we won't have a clue what the real impact will be for some months.

Cows
May 24th, 2007, 10:24 PM
Ah they fixed the prices again :). It's $599 .. ill def buy it if i had money :).

@meng

Well us is not really a linux users country. But Europe is VERY popular on linux products.

adamklempner
May 24th, 2007, 10:24 PM
So who is the first one here to buy one?

MetalMusicAddict
May 24th, 2007, 10:25 PM
Ill be buying the desktop at the end of the summer. The wife needs a new box. :)

Quake
May 24th, 2007, 10:26 PM
It'd odd but if I was Dell I would have just stuck ubuntu on as an option for every machine. I mean what the hell are they doing releasing specific models?

I call this: *gimmick*

Imagine if a car manufacturer sells a new set a non-rubber tires with it's vehicles without testing? That would bring chaos because they'll won't know it's performance, it's compatibility with certain vehicle... some chaos might happen...

I know that example isn't that good :P. But Dell has to sell Ubuntu with hardware that are going to work with it, and that will take a lot of times of testing: Drivers, compatibility, reliabilty...

Cows
May 24th, 2007, 10:29 PM
So who is the first one here to buy one?

IDK in the future I might buy a laptop from dell. But atm my friend wants to buy a new desktop and ill recommend him to buy the dell desktop w/ ubuntu :).

bash
May 24th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Apparently Dell's internal predictions were <1% Ubuntu sales this year, out of ~20,000 total sales. "Obviously" that's a small fraction of the market for Linux systems in the US this year, so the question is what proportion of prospective buyers will look at Dell?
(Obviously, <1 buyer/day on average should not lead to a website server overload ... but of course today will not be representative of usual traffic!)
I think it's exciting, but I agree we won't have a clue what the real impact will be for some months.

That would mean less than 200 laptops sold with Ubuntu on it a one year. I find that number very low. Im saying this not as a Linux user but as a business student. Take the whole Linux community which is made up of very tech intrested people, so you got a crowd of customers that invest a lot of time and money into their equipment plus other non-linux tech interested (aka computer addicts) that want to make a cheap deal since the y already have a windows license. So I find a guess of 200 computers sold strangely low. You sure that 20000 is not just the 1% percent already? Since I even find 20000 new computer sold in total by the worls second largest computer manufacturer quite low tbh. 2 mio. sold pcs sound in that regard a tad more realistic

hkgonra
May 24th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Apparently Dell's internal predictions were <1% Ubuntu sales this year, out of ~20,000 total sales. "Obviously" that's a small fraction of the market for Linux systems in the US this year, so the question is what proportion of prospective buyers will look at Dell?
(Obviously, <1 buyer/day on average should not lead to a website server overload ... but of course today will not be representative of usual traffic!)
I think it's exciting, but I agree we won't have a clue what the real impact will be for some months.

I think you misunderstood those numbers , the way I read it the 1% is 20,000.
That would put Dell selling 2 million systems a year , which to me seems much more realistic.

maniacmusician
May 24th, 2007, 10:51 PM
some notes on the XPS computer:

-the ubuntu version only offers one video card. GeForce 7300LE TC. Yes, turbocache. Ugh. The windows version has all of the newer cards, but neither of them offers a mid range card like a 7600GT.

- no "physics accelerator" for the ubuntu version. Probably because of a lack of drivers

- no "sound cards" for the ubuntu version, except for the normal integrated one. Probably a lack of drivers again.

- Under accessories, Linux is missing the following things: Printers, Tv Tuner/remote control, camera/webcam, Networking optios, modem, and optional ports.

- fewer speaker options for the Ubuntu version

- fewer keyboard options for the Ubuntu version

- fewer mouse options for the Ubuntu version. Actually, just 1.

- Both versions have the 13-in-one media card reader, which is good. But the Linux version can have either that or the floppy drive; not both. The windows version has an option for having both of them.

edit: oh, by the way, the Linux version came out $50 cheaper.

DarkStarAeon
May 24th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I'm really excited about this, I hope they do well.

I just bought a new computer prior to the original announcement by Dell/Ubuntu.

But I do need a new laptop, and it will definitely be a Dellbuntu. :D

meng
May 24th, 2007, 10:55 PM
I think you misunderstood those numbers , the way I read it the 1% is 20,000.
That would put Dell selling 2 million systems a year , which to me seems much more realistic.
Well that would make more sense. The original quote is ambiguous, I think you'll agree:

We expect these systems to be less than 1% of our OS mix for the entire year which is ~20,000 systems annually.
But looking into Dell's sales figures, 2 million seems closer to the mark (I suppose that doesn't include servers either).

meng
May 24th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Anyway, so ignoring my brain explosion earlier, ~20,000 system sales sounds like a pretty good start, if one believes in the idea of a "critical mass" helping to perpetuate its continued existence. Whether or not that number is achieved will depend upon which sector of the Linux market is most likely to take up the offer.

Personally, I'm reluctant to abandon the long-standing Linux-friendly vendors in favor of the Johnny-come-lately, but it's a personal preference. In my opinion, the issue is how many users will buy Dell+Linux who wouldn't otherwise have purchased a Linux (or unencumbered) system.

ep2011
May 24th, 2007, 11:11 PM
The Laptops include a wireless card, unlike the Desktops. It is looking much better than I thought, about $50-70 dollars less (depending on model) so they obviously lowered because of the windows liscense.

FuturePilot
May 24th, 2007, 11:13 PM
I hope that scary text on the screen doesn't scare anyone away:p
http://i.dell.com/images/us/segments/dhs/ubuntu_banner_728x200.jpg

sefs
May 24th, 2007, 11:15 PM
lets not forget system76....

enlightenment now
May 24th, 2007, 11:19 PM
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen





They'll be available in 30 minutes!

Does anybody know if they have a tablet PC with Ubuntu from Dell?

kpolice
May 24th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Does anybody know if they have a tablet PC with Ubuntu from Dell?

They don't even have one with Windows yet, it is in the works.

stmiller
May 24th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I just noticed on the $599 desktop: that price includes an LCD. You can take out the LCD, and the price is $409.

maddog39
May 24th, 2007, 11:25 PM
I am very very excited about this. The next desktop I buy (even though I have a hobby of building my own computers) will probably be one of these (mostly to support the movement, and because dell sells pretty decent hardware, except when paired with windows :P).

cody50
May 24th, 2007, 11:34 PM
Anyone know the quality of that laptop? is it one of their cheap flimsy ones or is it decent?

enlightenment now
May 24th, 2007, 11:39 PM
Has anyone actually ordered one yet?

Perhaps Ubuntu can change from shipping free CD's to shipping free Dell Laptops with Ubuntu. That would undermine windows having the market share pretty fast.
Bug #1 solved.

hakimaki
May 24th, 2007, 11:40 PM
I'm disappointed that the prices aren't cheaper than they are. The prices are comparable with the ******* systems, specifically the laptops. I thought I would pay a lot less (sub 599) for a basic laptop minus all the junk software loaded onto it.
Secondly, the Dell Ubuntu link was not easy to come by straight from the main Dell.com site. The only reason I found it was because I was looking for it specifically. I fear this may not take off due to the lack of advertisement and ease a consumer can find it or just be introduced with the idea.
I'll keep in mind that its only day 1, we'll see whats to happen in the following weeks...

whayong
May 24th, 2007, 11:41 PM
I can't speak for that particular laptop, but I've held and used other mid-high end Dell laptops. They're not to shabby.

Anyone else think that the price is a tad to high? It's just about the same as a system with Vista. What gives?

hakimaki
May 24th, 2007, 11:41 PM
Anyone know the quality of that laptop? is it one of their cheap flimsy ones or is it decent?

Regarding hardware components or casing?

maddog39
May 24th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Their new laptops arent like the old crappy ones. I heard good things about their newer ones.

cody50
May 24th, 2007, 11:50 PM
Regarding hardware components or casing?

well, having a solid construction is important. The rest of the components are similar (if not the same) as the gazelle I was looking at from System76. Seeing as how most of the cost would be offset by gift money which do you guys think I should go for?

Dell laptop = $964
Sys76 Gazelle (http://system76.com/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/193) = $1,100

as far as how I have them setup (both C2D 2.0ghz, 1gb ram, intel GMA 950 graphics).

I'm torn.

lazyart
May 24th, 2007, 11:50 PM
The laptop is $599 with the base processor and 512mb ram.

The same laptop with 1 gb ram and vista is $699.

However, the ubuntu laptop with 1 gb ram is $649.

Net price of Vista is $50? Granted you're getting at minimun an equivalent experience on Ubuntu with half the memory, but it's curious. What video card is included?

Can't complain... Ubuntu is out there. It's wonderful.

Teg_Navanis
May 24th, 2007, 11:53 PM
I'm disappointed that the prices aren't cheaper than they are. The prices are comparable with the ******* systems, specifically the laptops. I thought I would pay a lot less (sub 599) for a basic laptop minus all the junk software loaded onto it.

The systems are 50 bucks cheaper than with Vista. That's on the upper limit of what could be expected, since we knew that the price for the OEM version of Vista is 100$ and (a lot) less when you buy large quantities. Also, some people who tried to get a refund for Vista or XP got around 50$.

And most likely, Dell even receives money for preinstalling all the adware and junkware on their systems, so people were afraid that the Linux system wouldn't even be cheaper than the Vista one.

stmiller
May 24th, 2007, 11:58 PM
I'm disappointed that the prices aren't cheaper than they are.

$599 for a Core 2 Duo desktop with 17" LCD is pretty good.

bsell
May 24th, 2007, 11:58 PM
A comparison of the Inspiron laptops show little price difference between the two operating systems. The Windows Inspiron comes with 1 GB of RAM and a 256 Mb ATI Radeon Mobility graphics card (128 MB on the card, +128 from memory) for $699. This includes free shipping. The comparable Ubuntu Inspiron upgraded to 1 GB RAM is $649 with on-board Intel graphics (192 MB max) and no free shipping.

The Ubuntu laptop doesn't look like a better deal.

33354

33355

maddog39
May 25th, 2007, 12:05 AM
On the desktops I compared it looks like a much better deal. I really think it depends on the hardware configuration you are looking for. Plus desktops are more flexible in terms of hardware than laptops are, and with all the problems with ATI cards under linux, it really makes sense.

Tux Aubrey
May 25th, 2007, 12:15 AM
I'm very happy about this and Dell seems to be taking a very sensible approach. The only thing I have concerns about is the statement:


the systems target the Linux enthusiast community

While I'm happy to associate my file type with "Linux enthusiast", doesn't it mean "geek" to most people? It would be good to find a less threatening way to express this. I mean this could be read as "Buy one of these if you live with your mother, don't have a girlfriend and speak Klingon."

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2007, 12:18 AM
Yeah this is not really much of a deal, the laptops are offset by about 50 bucks when configured about the same, but the windows setup comes with a dedicated video card. If a dedicated nvidia card was available as an option would it close the 50 dollar gap? I think this is good because I can now by a cheap laptop that I know works, but I'm not saving that much money. I believe that more hardware options will be added later on as dell gets more time to test different setups.

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2007, 12:30 AM
The desktop xps had the same 50 dollar split, that's if you reduce the windows setup's monitor to be the same as the ubuntu setup. Still it's progress

stmiller
May 25th, 2007, 12:40 AM
Check this out:

17" iMac
1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo 2MB L2
512MB
160GB
24X combo drive
Intel 950 graphics

cannot upgrade
Has nice OS X

$999 + tax/shipping

-----------------

Dell E520N
1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo 2MB L2
17" LCD
1GB ram
250GB hard drive
48x combo drive
Intel 950 graphics

can upgrade
Has nice Ubuntu :)

$599 + tax/shipping

Andrewie
May 25th, 2007, 12:59 AM
Check this out:

17" iMac
1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo 2MB L2
512MB
160GB
24X combo drive
Intel 950 graphics

cannot upgrade
Has nice OS X

$999 + tax/shipping

-----------------

Dell E520N
1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo 2MB L2
17" LCD
1GB ram
250GB hard drive
48x combo drive
Intel 950 graphics

can upgrade
Has nice Ubuntu :)

$599 + tax/shipping

I want to laugh, but this is just wrong (or maybe that white plastic costs 400 dollars)

magicfab
May 25th, 2007, 12:59 AM
I have started a new thread to address Ubuntu+Dell questions. See:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2714984

Cheers,

bsell
May 25th, 2007, 01:24 AM
The laptop is $599 with the base processor and 512mb ram.

The same laptop with 1 gb ram and vista is $699.

However, the ubuntu laptop with 1 gb ram is $649.

Net price of Vista is $50? Granted you're getting at minimun an equivalent experience on Ubuntu with half the memory, but it's curious. What video card is included?

Can't complain... Ubuntu is out there. It's wonderful.

You get an 256 MB ATI Radeon Mobility graphics card (128 MB on the card) and free shipping with Vista. You get on-board Intel graphics using system RAM (no card) and no free shipping with Ubuntu.

You get a better graphics card with the Vista Inspiron and free shipping. This more than offsets the $50 price difference. It would be a better deal to buy the Windows laptop, install Ubuntu and get the $50 "Windows Refund."

stmiller
May 25th, 2007, 01:32 AM
You get an 256 MB ATI Radeon Mobility graphics card (128 MB on the card) and free shipping with Vista. You get on-board Intel graphics using system RAM (no card) and no free shipping with Ubuntu.

You get a better graphics card with the Vista Inspiron and free shipping. This more than offsets the $50 price difference. It would be a better deal to buy the Windows laptop, install Ubuntu and get the $50 "Windows Refund."

Wow didn't take the trolls very long. Windows OEM cost for Dell is around $50, as expected. ATI doesn't have as stable Linux drivers as Intel or Nvidia. So they are going with Intel.

user1397
May 25th, 2007, 01:38 AM
There's one component you guys forgot to factor in the price difference: the ubuntu laptop comes with intel wireless, while the dell comes with dell wireless, which is worse.

If you change that, then the 2 systems are truly evenly matched, and the prices come out to:

ubuntu dell: $649

windows dell: $728

Difference: $79

That, at least to me, is a considerable difference.

grgzfla
May 25th, 2007, 01:47 AM
Here's "the deal" (I'm a bit of a Dell groupie, and guessing at some of this)...

The setup: Remember when XP first came out and OEMs quit providing original MS install CDs? If you already had an MS OS and didn't want XP on your system, you could send your OEM CDs to MS and they would refund the cost of XP. At the time, OEMs paid MS based on the number of CDs distributed. Also, you could order a system without anything installed and the OEM didn't have to pay MS for an OS. That hurt MS.

MS has since changed their OEM contracts. Now they get paid based on the number of computers sold, regardless of the software installed.

The switch: MS also changed their refund policy. MS will only refund boxed versions of their OS. If you want a refund for an OEM preload, you have to contact the OEM. You'll notice that Dell charges $0 for a preloaded OS. That means if you order a system with a MS preloaded OS and decide to ask for a refund on the OS you get $0.

The play: Have you looked at the price of a boxed MS OS and wondered why there's no corresponding price break on an Ubuntu preloaded system? When you compare an OEM MS preloaded system and an Open Source preloaded system from the same OEM, you'll notice equivalent hardware for the Open Source system is more expensive.

The sting: It's because you're still paying for the MS OS, just not getting it. MS always gets their $$.

The follow-through: I applaud Dell for their sales effort. I like their hardware configurations. They need to tell MS to go play with their OS. If Dell would charge evenly for the components and only for the MS OS when actually requested by the customer, I venture to guess they'd sell a lot more Ubuntu systems (and improve their bottom line instead of MS's).

Truth be told, I recently bought a new Dell laptop with Vista. If I'm going to pay for it, I want to actually get it. The result is I've been energized to wean my entire family off MS OS and onto something more healthy. My old slow single CPU laptop ran XP far faster than my new duel core, high speed CPU laptop runs Vista.

Thanks for listening! :)

sloggerkhan
May 25th, 2007, 01:59 AM
Pricing the Dimension E520 N vs. 521 w/ vista home whatever (premium?)
The Ubuntu is about $100-120 cheaper with only 2 differences from the windows box:
DVD +/- R, RW on ubuntu instead of CD_RW/DVD on Vista and 10/100/1000 ethernet instead of 10/100 on vista box.

I'd say Ubuntu really has things going for it, with a $100 dollar price difference and loads of free software.

What worries my is the laptop. Most people will want laptops, but a decently configured Ubuntu one isn't that cheap. Not only that, I sorta have a bad opinion of dell laptops, so I'd be kinda afraid to buy one.

user1397
May 25th, 2007, 01:59 AM
What's crazy is that the FreeDOS offering actually costs more than the ubuntu one... (this is comparing the E520s)

sloggerkhan
May 25th, 2007, 02:15 AM
I thought I'd shar the E520 config where Ubuntu is about $140 cheaper:

Ubuntu Config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
No Modem

Cost:$659 (~$660)

Windows Vista Home Premium config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
No Modem

$799 (~800)

Result: Ubuntu is $140 dollars less. And comes with loads of software.

JOrtiz8612
May 25th, 2007, 02:17 AM
There is literally not much of a price difference between Windows and Ubuntu machines...

Mateo
May 25th, 2007, 02:23 AM
Just as I suspected, they are targeting consumers looking for cheap low-end computers.

but at least they let you customize it.

does anyone know if the 256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache has TV-out?

sloggerkhan
May 25th, 2007, 02:30 AM
I don't know if the dell version does, but many of the 7300s I've seen have an s-video or video adapter out.

Also, upon review, the Ubuntu laptop is not as much of a deal.

Mateo
May 25th, 2007, 02:35 AM
i'll have to find out, i'm not buying a video card that doesn't have tv-out.

stmiller
May 25th, 2007, 02:36 AM
I want to laugh, but this is just wrong (or maybe that white plastic costs 400 dollars)

Must be nice plastic...

Mateo
May 25th, 2007, 02:38 AM
What worries my is the laptop. Most people will want laptops, but a decently configured Ubuntu one isn't that cheap. Not only that, I sorta have a bad opinion of dell laptops, so I'd be kinda afraid to buy one.

why do you say most people will want a laptop?

bsell
May 25th, 2007, 02:56 AM
Wow didn't take the trolls very long. Windows OEM cost for Dell is around $50, as expected. ATI doesn't have as stable Linux drivers as Intel or Nvidia. So they are going with Intel.

Whoa, you're jumping to conclusions. I pointed out it would be cheaper to take the Vista Inspiron and install Ubuntu on it. You save on shipping and get a better video card. The ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 is fully supported in Linux using the fglrx driver. Shipping the Ubuntu box will probably be around $40 making the total purchase price before tax to be $689. It would be worth the additional $10 to have the video card.

Dell has refunded money for refusing the MS EULA and installing Linux. If you can get the refund for the MS O/S like this gentleman did (http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Nov/gee20061117040517.htm), then the deal is even better.

smoker
May 25th, 2007, 02:56 AM
hope dell will be selling these in the uk soon:-)

maniacmusician
May 25th, 2007, 03:08 AM
Whoa, you're jumping to conclusions. I pointed out it would be cheaper to take the Vista Inspiron and install Ubuntu on it. You save on shipping and get a better video card. The ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 is fully supported in Linux using the fglrx driver. Shipping the Ubuntu box will probably be around $40 making the total purchase price before tax to be $689. It would be worth the additional $10 to have the video card.

Dell has refunded money for refusing the MS EULA and installing Linux. If you can get the refund for the MS O/S like this gentleman did (http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Nov/gee20061117040517.htm), then the deal is even better.
which doesn't have any proper aiglx extensions, so you'd have to use XGL to get 3D rendering, which is slow as hell, and just not worth it.

I agree with you though; Based on your notes, the Ubuntu machine should be cheaper because it is lacking the ATI card. They did that out of consideration since ATI drivers for Linux are awful, but if they take away the hardware, they should charge less for the absence of it.

steven8
May 25th, 2007, 03:10 AM
Yes!! I don't care if they were priced the same. The mere fact that a major OEM is shipping a computer with pre-installed pre-configured Ubuntu is an AWESOME thing!!

deadlydeathcone
May 25th, 2007, 03:11 AM
Not only that, I sorta have a bad opinion of dell laptops, so I'd be kinda afraid to buy one.

I'll second this; Dell laptops are notorious for hardware failure and other nastiness, Their desktops, on the other hand, are quite well-built but bare-boned, at least from my experience.

There are also a few other non-obvious things to consider, things that might not matter to most but can pop up at the worst of times. For one, unless they've changed their quite recently all Dells come with a few pieces of proprietary hardware, including the PSU and motherboard. This means that if either component dies you have to either buy second hand parts or send the computer to Dell under warranty, which generally isn't the quickest process in the world. This also means that if you like having lots of bios features for things like Wake On Lan or overclocking you're likewise out of luck, and if you try to get clever and attach a standard PSU they 1) won't fit and 2) are wired differently, meaning major component death. :p

With that said, I've has a Dimension 8200 since '02 and had absolutely no problems with it at all, and on top of that it runs cool quietly as it has very well-routed ventilation, even when I replaced the stock Geforce ti300 with a 6800GT.

Still, do some research before buying one of these. Like I said Dells are mostly solid, but they have a tendency to release some really flaky hardware every once in a while.

user1397
May 25th, 2007, 03:25 AM
I thought I'd shar the E520 config where Ubuntu is about $140 cheaper:

Ubuntu Config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
No Modem

Cost:$659 (~$660)

Windows Vista Home Premium config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
No Modem

$799 (~800)

Result: Ubuntu is $140 dollars less. And comes with loads of software.Man, thats crazy.

janascii
May 25th, 2007, 03:34 AM
I think this move will really open up the market for linux. I have a feeling that there will be a much greater turnout than expected and more manufacturers will soon follow. Sure, there are plenty small outfits online that will build a computer with Ubuntu on it, but for people who get a generic pre-built system, this may finally give them an option. Perhaps Dell will put one of these systems at the Dell stores in shopping malls and people will be able to test linux out before they buy. Perhaps linux might have the same desktop market share as Apple some day...

MiD-AwE
May 25th, 2007, 03:39 AM
Yes!! I don't care if they were priced the same. The mere fact that a major OEM is shipping a computer with pre-installed pre-configured Ubuntu is an AWESOME thing!!
I agree totally. Especially Dell. Dell offers more support on the windows platform than anyone, and they always have. Consider paid Ubuntu support. Ubuntu's time may have come.
At this moment I'm removing a dead windows partition on a Systemax, and get this, it's an "AOL computer". The customer says, she bought it from "AOL". But, that story is in another forum as I, find help, I hope. I just happen to fall in this forum first.

Dell will need the Ubuntu forums to be able to support their customers. I'm sure that they have some method to, offer, any form, of support to the paying customers. Besides that, I'm not that great with Ubuntu yet, I would consider buying a Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed, if I didn't like to build my own machine. I hope that the dell-Ubuntu boxes push the Limit of what Ubuntu & Dell can do! I see great things that will likely tick off M$. That's why the customer wishes me to remove windows in favor of Ubuntu. Alas, can anyone suggest the correct forum I should ask for help?

Thank you?

jiminycricket
May 25th, 2007, 03:55 AM
I think this move will really open up the market for linux. I have a feeling that there will be a much greater turnout than expected and more manufacturers will soon follow. Sure, there are plenty small outfits online that will build a computer with Ubuntu on it, but for people who get a generic pre-built system, this may finally give them an option. Perhaps Dell will put one of these systems at the Dell stores in shopping malls and people will be able to test linux out before they buy. Perhaps linux might have the same desktop market share as Apple some day...

As long as Microsoft doesn't get nasty, as they have been every year since the 80s. Remember Dell in 2000...they used to have a deal to have Linux options on *every machine* for some time, apparently, then it was cancelled; then that got cut down to the few machines, like we see with Dellbuntu today, then to nothing but FreeDos. Rinse and repeat with Lenovo in the US.

That said, when they come to Canada (which should be very soon from what I've read on ubuntu-ca) I will certainly put my money where my mouth is.

bsell
May 25th, 2007, 03:57 AM
which doesn't have any proper aiglx extensions, so you'd have to use XGL to get 3D rendering, which is slow as hell, and just not worth it.

I agree with you though; Based on your notes, the Ubuntu machine should be cheaper because it is lacking the ATI card. They did that out of consideration since ATI drivers for Linux are awful, but if they take away the hardware, they should charge less for the absence of it.

If Dell would provide free shipping for the Ubuntu box like they do for the Windows machine, it would be a good deal. Hopefully, AMD will come through with aiglx support (http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/09/amd-will-deliver-open-graphics-drivers/) with its new open graphics drivers, which would make it worthwhile.

kleeman
May 25th, 2007, 03:59 AM
The Linux laptop has a worse graphics card and less memory but a better wireless card and cost $100 less.

If you ugrade the memory on the linux system and the wireless on the windows system you get an $80 difference.

The graphics cards according to Lenovo are $75 different:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=: 00000025:0000012F:&smid=3FD8C234713A440BA8062AAEBCA813BF

Put this all together and the linux laptop is $5 cheaper.

Bottomline: Dell reckons Windows costs $5.

Sounds like baloney to me....

maniacmusician
May 25th, 2007, 04:07 AM
If Dell would provide free shipping for the Ubuntu box like they do for the Windows machine, it would be a good deal. Hopefully, AMD will come through with aiglx support (http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/09/amd-will-deliver-open-graphics-drivers/) with its new open graphics drivers, which would make it worthwhile.
Don't hold your breath

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 04:18 AM
You've got to give them credit for advertising Ubuntu on the front page... if only for a day (who knows how long it'll be like that).

maniacmusician
May 25th, 2007, 04:22 AM
yeah, that's good. It's part of their 3 rotating advertisements.

stmiller
May 25th, 2007, 04:27 AM
Yes!! I don't care if they were priced the same. The mere fact that a major OEM is shipping a computer with pre-installed pre-configured Ubuntu is an AWESOME thing!!

Word.

EdThaSlayer
May 25th, 2007, 05:08 AM
The time has arrived. Linux will take over the WHOLE world!Starting with the superpower first :o

D00mM4r1n3
May 25th, 2007, 05:14 AM
I ordered the base model of laptop with only a screen upgrade to the WXGA+ screen, and the 85WHR battery. I just plan on using this for web surfing and getting more familiar with Ubuntu & Linux in general.

I didn't bother getting any of the Ubunutu support packages, but I did get the 3-year warranty. I manage a help desk for a medium-size corporation and find Dell's warranty service to be, generally, very good (so long as you never EVER call them, and always submit requests by email).

I ran one of the earlier versions of Ubuntu (3.xx?) on one of my spare PC's and I'm looking forward to seeing just how well it runs on this laptop. It's supposed to ship on June 7th and arrive sometime between the 12th-14th. The laptop had free 3-5 day shipping. If anyone has any questions they want answered after the laptop has arrived, feel free to PM me, or email me: "patrickjarvi -at- gmail.com". I can take photos too! :mrgreen:

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 05:18 AM
D00mM4r1n3, can you post (in a new thread) a review of the laptop when you get it?

I'm sure your experiences (positive or negative) will inform other people's possible purchases of a Dell Ubuntu notebook.

D00mM4r1n3
May 25th, 2007, 05:34 AM
I'm planning on taking photos of the packaging and some shots of the screen once it's on, as well as writing up impressions of the initial setup (wireless internet, network-shared printer, and an external monitor). I'll be sure to either create a new thread, or post in an existing thread if there's one already created when i'm ready.

Kujen
May 25th, 2007, 05:36 AM
I'm actually thinking about buying the $600 desktop (with the graphics card upgrade). I'm in need of a new computer, and if i can support linux while doing it, why not?

Spano
May 25th, 2007, 05:36 AM
From the Dell Site:

An advantage of open source is that it can deliver more reliability and flexibility, as well as faster updates and fixes, all at a lower cost.
Considering Dell's relationship with Microsoft I'm suprised to read that statement.

martinw89
May 25th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Yes!! I don't care if they were priced the same. The mere fact that a major OEM is shipping a computer with pre-installed pre-configured Ubuntu is an AWESOME thing!!

I totally agree. I don't care about the price difference. I was going to buy a System 76 laptop (might still, will have to wait and see) and that probably would have cost more.

I only hope that they meet or surpass the ~1% estimate and that Microsoft doesn't freak.

maniacmusician
May 25th, 2007, 05:44 AM
I'm planning on taking photos of the packaging and some shots of the screen once it's on, as well as writing up impressions of the initial setup (wireless internet, network-shared printer, and an external monitor). I'll be sure to either create a new thread, or post in an existing thread if there's one already created when i'm ready.
It would be really nice if you could write a review of the laptop for fullCircle magazine, which is basically an ubuntu-oriented magazine that just came out recently. you can get in touch with them at their website at www.fullcirclemagazine.org .

One person has actually written a review for the System76 Darter for fullCircle magazine, which will probably show up in the next couple of issues. You can view the notes for the review on a wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/MonthlyReviews (links at the bottom). I think it'd be great to get it into a magazine that is starting to be more widely read.

Issue #1 is going to come out soon, and Issue #2 is mostly planned out by now, but you could probably get it into Issue #3.

http://fullcirclemagazine.org/index.php/topic,72.0.html

Mateo
May 25th, 2007, 05:49 AM
Whoa, you're jumping to conclusions. I pointed out it would be cheaper to take the Vista Inspiron and install Ubuntu on it. You save on shipping and get a better video card. The ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 is fully supported in Linux using the fglrx driver. Shipping the Ubuntu box will probably be around $40 making the total purchase price before tax to be $689. It would be worth the additional $10 to have the video card.

Dell has refunded money for refusing the MS EULA and installing Linux. If you can get the refund for the MS O/S like this gentleman did (http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Nov/gee20061117040517.htm), then the deal is even better.

No, it's not. fglrx doesn't have variable overscan on tv-out.

kingcrowing
May 25th, 2007, 05:52 AM
I'm actually really excited for this!! I just got a Dell 2407FPW a few weeks ago, and I was going to build a middle of the road box to throw Feisty on (I'm hooked! Its taken over XP for me soley on the totally customizable UI, a combo of Beryl/gnome/OSX/Vista/and XP all designed by me!!) and i personally like Dells a lot so I think I'm just going to get this with a hardware warentee and see how it goes! I'll report back with a little revew in a week or so once I get it!

Hendrixski
May 25th, 2007, 06:05 AM
put that in conjunction with Dell being sold at Wal-mart and you got yourself a winner. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6690171.stm an $80 savings on a $800 or $900 computer... that's a 10% difference. That's going to get people buying them!

"oh wow, it says Dell, and it costs less than windows"

JNowka
May 25th, 2007, 06:14 AM
I really like this menu option. It is even in their windows computer area!

gradedcheese
May 25th, 2007, 06:30 AM
If you subtract the included monitor, that Dimension is a whole $400. I think I'm going to buy one for not much of a reason in particular. 'might make a good file server :)

FurryNemesis
May 25th, 2007, 06:36 AM
Boo hiss, no UK option...

Mind you half of PC World's staff will have aneurysms if it ever gets over here. I told one of them about the whole Dell/Ubuntu deal when I went in for bits and then asked them what their stance on Linux was. The answer?

"As far away as possible"

Oh, there's going to be spectacular chaos over here - and I'm almost looking forward to it.

sloggerkhan
May 25th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Another pricing idiosyncrasy: You can get an E520n with the same specs (guess just a different case?) as an XPS 410 n for $190 less....

E520n:
Ubuntu Config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
No Modem

Cost:$659 (~$660)

XPS 410:
Ubuntu Config:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB)
Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
No Monitor
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Dell USB Keyboard
13 in 1 Media Card Reader
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Dell® Optical USB mouse
No Modem

Cost:$839


Kinda funny, actually, as the cases look nearly the same (though not the same) in both pics. I wonder what gives....

kripkenstein
May 25th, 2007, 07:32 AM
The laptop is $599 with the base processor and 512mb ram.

The same laptop with 1 gb ram and vista is $699.

However, the ubuntu laptop with 1 gb ram is $649.

Net price of Vista is $50? Granted you're getting at minimun an equivalent experience on Ubuntu with half the memory, but it's curious. What video card is included?


There is another issue, that price for Vista is for Vista Home Basic. Most users would be interested in Home Premium, which costs more ($30-$50, last I checked on Dell's site). Home Basic doesn't have the nice new visual effects and so forth.

benanzo
May 25th, 2007, 08:26 AM
I just bought an XPS 410!

(I've been in the market for a new desktop and I was planning to install Ubuntu anyway and Dell's prices were right for what I wanted)

I can't wait to see what the Dell/Ubuntu unboxing/new user experience will be like. I need to have the hardware to help others with it!

I have high hopes!

steven8
May 25th, 2007, 10:24 AM
I just bought an XPS 410!

(I've been in the market for a new desktop and I was planning to install Ubuntu anyway and Dell's prices were right for what I wanted)

I can't wait to see what the Dell/Ubuntu unboxing/new user experience will be like. I need to have the hardware to help others with it!

I have high hopes!

Congratulations! Keep us posted on your experience!

maniacmusician
May 25th, 2007, 01:49 PM
I just bought an XPS 410!

(I've been in the market for a new desktop and I was planning to install Ubuntu anyway and Dell's prices were right for what I wanted)

I can't wait to see what the Dell/Ubuntu unboxing/new user experience will be like. I need to have the hardware to help others with it!

I have high hopes!

Awesome. Please consider my suggestions (which I originally suggested to someone else, that bought the laptop):


It would be really nice if you could write a review of the laptop for fullCircle magazine, which is basically an ubuntu-oriented magazine that just came out recently. you can get in touch with them at their website at www.fullcirclemagazine.org .

One person has actually written a review for the System76 Darter for fullCircle magazine, which will probably show up in the next couple of issues. You can view the notes for the review on a wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/MonthlyReviews (links at the bottom). I think it'd be great to get it into a magazine that is starting to be more widely read.

Issue #1 is going to come out soon, and Issue #2 is mostly planned out by now, but you could probably get it into Issue #3.

http://fullcirclemagazine.org/index.php/topic,72.0.html

freebeer
May 25th, 2007, 03:33 PM
There is another issue, that price for Vista is for Vista Home Basic. Most users would be interested in Home Premium, which costs more ($30-$50, last I checked on Dell's site). Home Basic doesn't have the nice new visual effects and so forth.

Good point.. I was looking around to see if anyone had mentioned that. On the Home Basic front (not positive about the Premium version, but it may be affected, too), it seems that many a game that runs just fine in XP is either broken or problematic in Home Basic. The average user doesn't know this, but I fear that he'll have to cough up additional upgrade $$ after s/he realizes the problem.

On an unrelated note: Should this forum consider creating a Dell Ubuntu help section? I suspect most Dell Ubuntu buyers won't need help (most are already familiar with it), another minority(?) would run to Dell for support, with the rest, perhaps, finding their way here. At least with the Dell products, we'd know what their hardware make-up is, and it'd cut down on the "what hard ware do you have?", "I don't know, how do I find out" dance that is common. Just an idea. :D

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 03:51 PM
On an unrelated note: Should this forum consider creating a Dell Ubuntu help section? I suspect most Dell Ubuntu buyers won't need help (most are already familiar with it), another minority(?) would run to Dell for support, with the rest, perhaps, finding their way here. At least with the Dell products, we'd know what their hardware make-up is, and it'd cut down on the "what hard ware do you have?", "I don't know, how do I find out" dance that is common. Just an idea. :D I think we'll have to take it as it comes. It took a bit of arguing out to finally get an Apple Intel subforum here. If enough people buy Ubuntu Dells and feel that such a subforum is beneficial, they can put forth a proposal and let the forum admins decide if it's appropriate.

I think if someone makes it all the way to the Ubuntu Forums, she's more likely to be fine with the forums as is. Others would probably gravitate toward the Dell Linux forums (http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board?board.id=sw_linux), which Dell has been promoting.

homerj742
May 25th, 2007, 04:35 PM
When buying any laptop, I would always be ready to add $300 to the said price, as I like to purchase warranty/accidental coverage for it. it's a laptop after all. Stuff happens. After $300 and it's still under $1000 total, not a bad deal IMO :)

Bartender
May 25th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Well, dang it, I just got done Live Chatting with a Dell Rep. None of the new Ubuntu PC's have dial-up modems. That little fact is not clear on the website. The sales rep said it's stated at the very bottom of the configuration options.
Most of you guys won't care, but I was sure hoping that Dell would take care of the dial-up modem problems for me.

gradedcheese
May 25th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Modems used to be implemented in hardware, and those would work. Then the manufacturers realized that it's much cheaper if all the DSP algorithms and other heavy lifting are done in software, leaving the 'modem' to be effectively only the sound card piece (audio in and out). In fact many then realized that their soundcard chipset can just take care of that. So software generates the tones (and interprets incoming ones) while the bare bones 'sound card' puts them on the line as electrical signals or encodes in incoming ones.

This makes for really cheap modems, since there's almost nothing to them. This also means that every bit of fancy modulation/demodulation ('modem') is done in the driver. And the chipsrt makers consider that to be some serious IP so they won't release any of it. So no open source modem drivers, and nearly no support for these 'soft modems' in Linux.

If you want a working dialup modem, buy one of the old 100% hardware modems (usually external, via serial port). Otherwise you are screwed, even if they had included the soft modem hardware on the board.

stmiller
May 25th, 2007, 09:26 PM
Well, dang it, I just got done Live Chatting with a Dell Rep. None of the new Ubuntu PC's have dial-up modems. That little fact is not clear on the website. The sales rep said it's stated at the very bottom of the configuration options.
Most of you guys won't care, but I was sure hoping that Dell would take care of the dial-up modem problems for me.

Most new computers today do not include a modem. It is cheap to pick one up for $10 or so though. I guess Dell didn't want to go there and mess with dialup under Linux.

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2007, 09:39 PM
Would it be possible to change the laptop video card on your own?

Bartender
May 25th, 2007, 11:41 PM
I'm not absolutely sure, but from the images I could google up none of the three Dell PC's has a serial port. If that's the case, dial-up users can stop dreaming about going online with a Dell Ubuntu PC.

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 11:48 PM
I'm not absolutely sure, but from the images I could google up none of the three Dell PC's has a serial port. If that's the case, dial-up users can stop dreaming about going online with a Dell Ubuntu PC.
In all fairness, most Ubuntu users on these forums do not use dial-up, as I found out from this silly poll (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=197933&highlight=dial-up).

Truth of the matter is this: Ubuntu stinks if you're on dial-up because your modem will be either impossible or difficult to set up anyway, and all the updates and software would take forever to install. Ubuntu doesn't have official add-on CDs (or even unofficial ones for Edgy or Feisty) and so isn't slow-connection- or no-internet-connection-friendly.

If you're on dial-up, you're better off with a different distribution.

gradedcheese
May 25th, 2007, 11:54 PM
I'm not absolutely sure, but from the images I could google up none of the three Dell PC's has a serial port. If that's the case, dial-up users can stop dreaming about going online with a Dell Ubuntu PC.

It's about $20 to get a USB to RS232 dongle, and they work fine in Linux.

Bartender
May 26th, 2007, 12:35 AM
aysiu, I have to agree with you. Dial-up is pathetic. That's why I'm still using Windows and just sorta playing at using Linux.
But it's dial-up or $50/month for satellite internet. $600 a year for fast internet? Um, I'll wait.

graded, I knew about adapters but thought that Linux wouldn't pick up the serial modem on the USB port. Have you actually done this??

daahli
May 26th, 2007, 01:41 AM
I just ordered the Dell Ubuntu laptop (for my grandma! ;)). I was surprised to see that the final configuration was more than $100 cheaper than equivalent computer with Vista. That is very fair.

freebeer
May 26th, 2007, 01:48 AM
Others would probably gravitate toward the Dell Linux forums, which Dell has been promoting.

ok. Cool. I wasn't aware that there was such a forum. Fine by me. :D

sonny
May 26th, 2007, 01:54 AM
Well I don't think that the whole point is selling, after all I think that more that 70% Linux users build their own systems, and there's only one laptop, plus the prices are almost the same as if you were going to buy it with windows. I think that Dell really tried hard, but Dell cannot revealed the exact amount of the windows cost (non-disclousure agreement) so it cannot charge the correct price for Ubuntu.

Plus it's not about selling, it's about hardware support. I think those sells would be very low, but it'll open an oportunity for small companies like System76 to get more hardware suppor in their machines.

ghandi69_
May 26th, 2007, 02:25 AM
I'll be completely honest.. .I really shouldn't be spending money on a laptop right now... but since this has come out today I just havent been able to get my mind off of it. I feel about these issues:

Pricing: I expected ubuntu computers to be the exact same price as their vista counterparts(especially considering all the advertisements they load on your pc when you get windows) so I am excited to see they are indeed cheaper. Also.. for me, it is more about free as in speach and features and competiion for windows that drives me to open source, not price. Also, in terms of attracting new users, I do not think price should be the main attraction, but we should focus on desktop custimizing features, operating system speed(especially on older hardware with xubuntu and fluxbox), ease of installing of your choice of excellent free software (open up a menu and click on the program you want, doesn't get much better). Aside from Professionals(Audio, Video) and hardcore gamers, Ubuntu really does have more to offer, so the similar price doesn't concern me.

DELL Advertising: I had low expectations here as well, but to see ubuntu on the FRONT PAGE of DELLS WEBSITE I truely believe is more than I could have ever asked for. They even mentioned that is MORE STABLE and is very custimizable, which I believe should attract users. I also do like the idea of Dell starting out slow and working their way up... I am sure they will increase their advertising and selection if these pc's become a hot seller.

As mentioned here, the main advantage we should hopefully see from this is increased hardware support, and maybe increased codec support for things like flash and maybe some programs. I will probably be purchasing a laptop from them this weekend.

Hope most of you are happy about this as I am, regardless of the outcome.

cody50
May 26th, 2007, 03:36 AM
for the Inspiron you could only get Intel GMA graphics earlier, but now you have a choice for NVidia? anyone have info on that?

bluewagon
May 26th, 2007, 03:43 AM
quite a low price difference if you think about it, vista is over 100 bucks... plus its still cheaper just to build one and install ubuntu than to pay for it to be installed for you..

aysiu
May 26th, 2007, 03:46 AM
quite a low price difference if you think about it, vista is over 100 bucks... plus its still cheaper just to build one and install ubuntu than to pay for it to be installed for you..
Not all of us build computers... or laptops especially.

gradedcheese
May 26th, 2007, 05:12 AM
graded, I knew about adapters but thought that Linux wouldn't pick up the serial modem on the USB port. Have you actually done this??

I use USB/RS232 dongles every day, and they work perfectly. There's no reason why they won't work with a modem (all RS232 functions on them work fine and the drivers are very good). Plug one in, it will show up as /dev/ttyUSB0, and then use that as your serial port. It will work just fine.

John Jason Jordan
May 26th, 2007, 05:19 AM
Not all of us build computers... or laptops especially.
Not only that, but I must also point out that the price issue is utterly irrelevant. The important point is that we have a MAJOR computer vendor not only offering, but openly advertising, to sell you a compurer with Linux preinstalled. That has never happened before. That is what the big issue is. That is why the entire internet is abuzz with Dell's announcement. Do you think it is a good deal for you? Is a Dell with Ubuntu preinstalled right for you? For most people on Ubuntu forums the answer is probably "no."

But what if Dell sells a gazillion computers every year with Linux preinstalled and the installed base of Linux computers starts eating into Microsoft's market share. Would that be significant for Ubuntuoids? You damn betcha it would. Why? Because the big problem Linux has is market share. If there were even a tenth as many computers running Linux as Windows our problems with proprietary hardware and no Linux drivers would evaporate. And that means even fewer problems getting users to switch. It's a snowball effect, and my hat is off to Dell for starting it.

Now I'm off to Dell's site to find a feedback page so I can pat them on the back and promise that my next computer will be a Dell, for sure.

BoyOfDestiny
May 26th, 2007, 06:41 AM
Not only that, but I must also point out that the price issue is utterly irrelevant. The important point is that we have a MAJOR computer vendor not only offering, but openly advertising, to sell you a compurer with Linux preinstalled. That has never happened before. That is what the big issue is. That is why the entire internet is abuzz with Dell's announcement. Do you think it is a good deal for you? Is a Dell with Ubuntu preinstalled right for you? For most people on Ubuntu forums the answer is probably "no."

But what if Dell sells a gazillion computers every year with Linux preinstalled and the installed base of Linux computers starts eating into Microsoft's market share. Would that be significant for Ubuntuoids? You damn betcha it would. Why? Because the big problem Linux has is market share. If there were even a tenth as many computers running Linux as Windows our problems with proprietary hardware and no Linux drivers would evaporate. And that means even fewer problems getting users to switch. It's a snowball effect, and my hat is off to Dell for starting it.

Now I'm off to Dell's site to find a feedback page so I can pat them on the back and promise that my next computer will be a Dell, for sure.

Indeed. Just picked one up for my dad, the e1505 laptop.
I've built and tweaked several desktops and towers over the years. I've never built a laptop (would it even be cheaper?)

It gets the word out, there is one more choice out there (well actually more than that... But still ;) )

Loads of free apps (can you imagine someone using Add/Remove for the first time, especially if they haven't been aware of Free Software or OSS?)

As you said advertising (the other bonus besides hardware support, and may actually play a large part)
I'd love to see them in stores too. It may not be for everyone (yet? Linux is still improving.)

I've never seen one Linux commercial on TV or in a film. Have you? Let's face it. on features and price alone, it wouldn't be that hard. As Mark Shuttleworth mentioned he doesn't want it to look like a low cost Windows. I think with the right adverts it won't be an issue. (Or do people buy an Apple and expect to run Windows apps? There are always virtual machines and dual boot anyway, not to mention WINE) I guess my point is, as it's clear it's not a Windows clone, people won't have the wrong expectation of Ubuntu and Linux and general (that's my only "worry")

I'll vote with my wallet. Might pick up one of their desktops for my sister, then tweak it.

hanzomon4
May 26th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Yeah the price is meaningless.... We now have a major oem we can recommend to family and friends who don't need any special non-replaceable windows app. Beyond that this will put more pressure on hardware companines like ATI/AMD to make quality drivers, if not open drivers.

Mathiasdm
May 26th, 2007, 08:57 AM
Yeah the price is meaningless.... We now have a major oem we can recommend to family and friends who don't need any special non-replaceable windows app. Beyond that this will put more pressure on hardware companines like ATI/AMD to make quality drivers, if not open drivers.
Indeed, that's what matters.

I originally planned to build my next computer myself, but if Dell offers Linux in Europe too, I'll probably get a Dell :p

MichaelSM
May 26th, 2007, 11:02 AM
I think this is all a bit ridiculous. Dell's offering of pre-installed Feisty on their cheapest laptop and PC range is an awakening disaster. Buyers of low-range laptops and PCs often are dial-up users. The proverbial is gonna hit the propellor if and when those people start buying these things, and find that they can't get on the Net without a LAN connection. You'd have to be kidding.... but it's true.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Mr. Dell rings Mr. Shuttleworth.
"Mark, what the f@#k's going on? I've got 1000's of laptops coming back! What's the story, pal?"
" What story?"
" They can't get on the Net! It's like a cart without a f@#$ing HORSE!"
" Whaddya mean, 'they can't get on the Net....' calm down, mate...."
" Don't YOU tell ME to calm down! Why didn't this get talked about during the deal?"
" Mike, steady on. Course they can get on the Net. It's easy. You just plug the router in and off you go. Any 2-year old can do it ...."
"FOR F@#%S SAKE, Mark! Shut up and LISTEN! There's no dial-up, and I'm in deep sh ....."
"Sorry, mate ....File-up ....hang on, that's hmm, No, I reckon you mean file down-loads, and that's why we've got Synaptic so as ...."
" MARK! It's DIAL-UP! DIAL-UP! As in MODEMS! As in f*&$ing more than half the world's computer users! What are we gonna do ab ......"
"Oh, DIAL-up. Sorta remember that.... long time ago....what's the drama anyway? Hey, coffee, Katie..? Yeah, Cream and two sugars....what? People still use it.....? You gotta be ..."
"MARK, MAAAATE! Why didn't your blokes tell my fellas about this? It's a f*&#en disaster area!"
"Um, well, I guess you didn't ask. Look, Ubuntu's pretty good. It's just like Windows but even better. We've got a great forum, and ...."
"SCREAM!"
CLUNK.

Couldn't help myself.
I can feel a BIG patch coming on ....:p
Cheers to all.
Mike.;)

steven8
May 26th, 2007, 11:39 AM
I think this is all a bit ridiculous. Dell's offering of pre-installed Feisty on their cheapest laptop and PC range is an awakening disaster. Buyers of low-range laptops and PCs often are dial-up users. The proverbial is gonna hit the propellor if and when those people start buying these things, and find that they can't get on the Net without a LAN connection. You'd have to be kidding.... but it's true.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Mr. Dell rings Mr. Shuttleworth.
"Mark, what the f@#k's going on? I've got 1000's of laptops coming back! What's the story, pal?"
" What story?"
" They can't get on the Net! It's like a cart without a f@#$ing HORSE!"
" Whaddya mean, 'they can't get on the Net....' calm down, mate...."
" Don't YOU tell ME to calm down! Why didn't this get talked about during the deal?"
" Mike, steady on. Course they can get on the Net. It's easy. You just plug the router in and off you go. Any 2-year old can do it ...."
"FOR F@#%S SAKE, Mark! Shut up and LISTEN! There's no dial-up, and I'm in deep sh ....."
"Sorry, mate ....File-up ....hang on, that's hmm, No, I reckon you mean file down-loads, and that's why we've got Synaptic so as ...."
" MARK! It's DIAL-UP! DIAL-UP! As in MODEMS! As in f*&$ing more than half the world's computer users! What are we gonna do ab ......"
"Oh, DIAL-up. Sorta remember that.... long time ago....what's the drama anyway? Hey, coffee, Katie..? Yeah, Cream and two sugars....what? People still use it.....? You gotta be ..."
"MARK, MAAAATE! Why didn't your blokes tell my fellas about this? It's a f*&#en disaster area!"
"Um, well, I guess you didn't ask. Look, Ubuntu's pretty good. It's just like Windows but even better. We've got a great forum, and ...."
"SCREAM!"
CLUNK.

Couldn't help myself.
I can feel a BIG patch coming on ....:p
Cheers to all.
Mike.;)

*sigh*

From the Dell site:


Also Includes
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Award Winning Service and Support
No Modem

How could the buyers surf to the Dell site to buy more stuff if they hadn't thought of that.

*sigh*

3rdalbum
May 26th, 2007, 12:58 PM
I'm just disappointed that Dell says:


For advanced users and tech enthusiasts, we’re happy to offer a new open-source operating system

Enthusiasts.

Linux is ideal for people who aren't "enthusiasts".

If Dell persists with this line of marketing, Linux will never get the proper recognition it deserves.

Gargamella
May 26th, 2007, 01:14 PM
inspirion is nice and has an amazing price

Bartender
May 26th, 2007, 01:20 PM
*sigh*

How could the buyers surf to the Dell site to buy more stuff if they hadn't thought of that.

*sigh*

steven8, you gotta be kidding me. People on dial-up, using a Windows computer with a winmodem inside, could very easily find their way to the Dell website, fail to notice that tiny "No modem" comment at the very bottom of the sidebar, and buy one of these without realizing that dial-up was not gonna happen until they bought a serial external and a serial to USB adapter.

MichaelSM
May 26th, 2007, 02:57 PM
x

aysiu
May 26th, 2007, 03:53 PM
Buyers of low-range laptops and PCs often are dial-up users. I don't know what you mean by "often," but I can tell you there are plenty of buyers of low-range laptops who expect to use a wired ethernet or wireless connection.

If you have dial-up, Ubuntu is probably not your best choice anyway.

Yfrwlf
May 26th, 2007, 08:05 PM
We have an offering here that is better than most in the past to a niche, but growing, market (niche in the US for average computer users, that is).

However, while that is more mainstream exposure than previously, I feel Linux has been pushed to the sidelines yet again.

A) Dell has about 5 ad banners on their front page. They seem to load randomly, but I could be wrong. If so, that's a 20% chance that anyone visiting their site will see them. If you happen to be in the 80% who didn't get the banner and you continue to their site, the only way to my knowledge to find their models with Ubuntu will be to really dig. Either do a search for Ubuntu, or perhaps browse the extended lists of models. The problem is you have to know what it is first to want it. This means us, other Ubuntu users, not existing Windows users. There are NO models anywhere in the home user sections of both laptops and desktops that are available with Ubuntu. Wanting Dell to put them side by side so consumers could compare them was a fantasy. Dell could have easily offered Ubuntu as one of the choices on the main pages for select models, but didn't. If you're Billy Joe and you didn't see that Ubuntu banner, you've missed it. Too late, so sorry, you may have been able to save money...

B) ...which brings me to my next point. I compared the laptops E1505 both with Ubuntu and with Windows against each other, and there is no difference. They are the exact same price. You have to select the same hardware for both laptops to make a fair comparison. If you select both the Nvidia and ATI 256 meg graphics cards on each model to make them roughly equivalent, and increase the Linux laptop's RAM to 1 gig, they come out to be the same price. The Windows laptop has many more options you can choose. Some of them were removed for compatibility reasons (or haven't been *tested* for it), some because of the fact you don't need spyware and virus protection in Linux (at least at the moment), but some things like selecting a wireless router...ridiculous that that isn't an option under the Linux version. I haven't run a comparison among the other models yet. If this comparison is fair though, what this means to me is that that price is the lowest possible, meaning both Windows and Linux are free, and in the case of the Windows machine the advertisers who put crapware on the laptop are effectively paying Microsoft for your use of their OS, because they get to advertise on it. If that's true, Linux could get the same type of discount if it were also loaded with crapware, showing a true comparison and revealing the MS tax. The important thing to note here though is no, you're not saving any money for choosing the completely free OS, but maybe at least you're not allowing advertisers to pay MS money which they shouldn't be getting (because you didn't want to use that OS anyway).

C) If you do get the banner, and you do click on it (even though chances are if you don't know what it is you probably won't), the page you are taken to is probably as far as someone is going to get. The choices present will either make users back up to the previous page, or read the information presented. The first thing you hit is neutral paragraph not pointing out anything that meaningful, followed by "Not sure Open Source is for You?" which gives you a link to Windows models. Instead of trying to give the consumer a comparison to Windows here or explaining any benefits of getting a computer with Ubuntu, this is only mentioned further down on the page and most users will turn back at this point, because most people are dumb and don't want to bother reading about something new, and all they know is Windows so why switch? The point here is the average user with a short attention span is probably not going see any benefits and is going to leave and feel sorry they clicked on something they didn't understand to begin with.

Conclusion: This may be a good offering for us existing Linux users, but not for the masses. The main problem with the masses, which is often the case, is education. They use what they know how to use, and largely follow trends. Windows is the universal OS for most of the world, and changing that takes education and comparison. To do that though, Linux has to be given the chance to educate. Never before has it been given even a chance to appear on a front page of a major vendor that I know of. However, by not appearing anywhere other than a special section that you'll be lucky to find, by not being offered side-by-side next to Windows machines anywhere in the visible consumer models, by not offering any price incentives to the buyer, and by not presenting information comparing the two OSes in places that matter (during model customization in the home user sections) and pointing out their benefits to allow consumers to make informed decisions, Dell hasn't offered much for the penguin. Because of this, it will very likely be another "failed experiment", and lack of sales will be the reason given for terminating these offers. By not letting the penguin compete with Bill, standing side by side and under a magnifying glass, most all consumers not knowledgeable about Linux will likely ignore it. With companies scared to take any huge chances now days, and because of Dell's previous track record, I'm not at all surprised. This pebble tossed into the waves of society will aid in a small way to the expanding push for Linux. Dell is heeding society's catch-22: If it's not popular we shouldn't mention it, but if it's not mentioned it won't become popular. At least it's coming along, slowly, and at least there are things like YouTube and the rest of the social networking sites, as well as many Linux users and fans all over the globe, to spread information about Linux, even if Dell is reluctant to.

Bartender
May 27th, 2007, 12:39 AM
If you have dial-up, Ubuntu is probably not your best choice anyway.

aysiu, what would you suggest?

Unlike so many, broadband is at least available to me. $600/year. Sheesh. It would be a far better use of the money to buy a Dell laptop and do the online stuff at work.

BTW, according to some folks at the Dell Linux forums the lappy will have an internal modem with a Linuxant chipset. Apparently Dell will offer drivers to their customers at their support site.

anonymous131
May 27th, 2007, 12:45 AM
I've sent them an email before, about how they should have ubuntu on their comps instead of SuSe, Red Hat, Fedora, etc. i guess they must have read it or something.... anyway, this is awesome because now ATI and nVidia will maybe make open drivers, which means that Linux will be able to play more games! finally. the only reason why i have windows computers is to play games.

Cows
May 27th, 2007, 01:14 AM
Well that is a pretty reasonable thought.

Dell promotes Ubuntu -> ATI & Nvidia get a more dedicated linux staff -> More drivers = More Games

but ATI never really cared so I would be surprised if they made 1.

The Noble
May 27th, 2007, 01:24 AM
Those prices are starting to get pretty good. What would be interesting is if nouveau takes off and we have a viable alternative to the intel graphics cards. Maybe even nvidia will help make some drivers, but that is hopeful thinking.

I am willing to be that a fairly large percentage of purchacures will be people with bootlegged copies of windows. Still, it will at least look like sales figures to dell. Kudos dell, my next laptop may very well be from you.

DJ Wings
May 27th, 2007, 02:06 AM
Is anyone having issues with the E1505N? I'm thinking about getting one. I only saw one topic in the Hardware/Laptops forum. The IPW3945 wireless seems like a good choice, as does the GMA950...

aysiu
May 27th, 2007, 03:24 AM
aysiu, what would you suggest? I would suggest a different distro--one that has multiple CDs--Fedora, Mandriva, Debian.

benanzo
May 27th, 2007, 04:14 AM
I don't think there is any doubt in the PC OEM industry that the slow transition from MS to Linux of Joe-user's desktop is inevitable. Very careful steps are being taken by Dell and others to make a deliberate and lasting presence in the minds of the computer-elite, those who recommend which product to get to the not-so-elite. It is apparent now that Free software is as capable (if not more-so) on the desktop than that which we've been paying boatloads of cash for over the last decade and a half. We've seen SCO effectively bankrupt because of their proprietary mindset and lack of adaptability in the face of Free and superior competition. This was achieved on a small scale. The SCO Group's demise was peanuts. Microsoft, the real Trophy Fish, knows this. They are not blind. They see big, powerful companies starting this transition. They see Intel open-sourcing their graphics drivers for no other reason than to gain favor in the Linux community. They see ATI making (albeit vague) promises (http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/13/1659245) to supply open-source drivers to Linux. They see page after page on every major OEM's website detailing how they are the right vender to get your OSS fix.

This (http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Members) is the short-list of companies pushing Linux.

MS knows that it is only a matter of time before their partners abandon them in favor of Free-er/better products.

They first tried to stifle Linux's uptake by supplying a $10 million cash infusion into SCO's case. After it became apparent that IBM was eating SCO alive in the courtroom, MS sulked off to concentrate on other means. Now we see MS claiming patent ownership of major OSS code and implying that a patent license is in order. This is the only way MS can see that they have a chance in the competition. This is the route SCO took. Sue. Well, we know how SCO did. It's not clear whether MS is as stupid as SCO, but it is clear that this shows in plain daylight that Microsoft is scared. They know GNU/Linux is destroying their monopoly. They know they cannot compete on a bit-by-bit level. They cannot make a better product. (With all the $billions and years they spent on IE7, is it any better than the free and open-source Firefox? no. That is just one example.)

prince_alfie
May 27th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Finally guys. Dell got the Ubuntu PC's on their front page as soon as you hit www.dell.com! woot boys and girls! :D

aysiu
May 27th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Finally guys. Dell got the Ubuntu PC's on their front page as soon as you hit www.dell.com! woot boys and girls! :D
It's one of their several rotating banners, but, yes, it's cool.

Yfrwlf
May 27th, 2007, 05:25 PM
They know GNU/Linux is destroying their monopoly. They know they cannot compete on a bit-by-bit level. They cannot make a better product. (With all the $billions and years they spent on IE7, is it any better than the free and open-source Firefox? no. That is just one example.)

Don't forget about the best example of all, Vista. My roommate has a slow laptop and he really is amazed at the option he has to install a very streamline desktop environment, or a bigger one with more shine, instead of having only one option.

It's definitely true that the transition will happen eventually, and MS is trying to figure out what's in their future. Right now they've analyzed some of the OSS out there and are trying to come up with models to profit off of it, and integrate with it. They want to weasel their way into it somehow, to give people a reason to keep using their crap. Problem is, it's a failed model since one of the goals of OSS is to replace those portions of programs and code that are restrictive in any way to give complete control to end-users. I am so amazed that in effect Novell customers are paying Microsoft in their racketeering scheme for software they didn't make, that's completely OSS, just for patent lawsuit protection. But it's not really that hard to understand when you see that in order to try to weasel in like that they've paid Novell a total of 1/2 a billion dollars. I think it's pretty amusing seeing MS throw away so much money down the tubes on "innovating" craptastic software. No wonder Bill is selling his shares and getting the hell out.

MS with it's billions is far from being done with throwing their monkey wrenches into OSS though. It's usually a fact that once a company reaches a certain monetary size or industry influence, they usually turn from profiting from being nice and cooperative to consumers and other businesses, to profiting from being pushy and proprietary. I wonder how much MS will need to lose first in order to reach the level where they are going to start truly cooperating. Of course, it completely depends on how intelligent the execs are, and if I were MS I'd start now because it's image is so tarnished.

ENN0
May 27th, 2007, 05:28 PM
They now have it on the ubuntu main page aswell :)

Yfrwlf
May 27th, 2007, 09:09 PM
I have confirmed that even if you do a "view all notebooks" or "view all desktops" the Ubuntu offerings are not listed. Forgive me, Dell, for being pissed at your Linux visibility, but even when I specifically WANT a computer from you with Linux on it and I can't even find it unless I go to the "open source" section or click "reload" on your main page until the Ubuntu banner appears, that's REALLY PATHETIC. =P

imsorryidontdowindows
May 27th, 2007, 10:43 PM
I ordred mine today, try just a search for ubuntu should take you right to it.

hth..


I have confirmed that even if you do a "view all notebooks" or "view all desktops" the Ubuntu offerings are not listed. Forgive me, Dell, for being pissed at your Linux visibility, but even when I specifically WANT a computer from you with Linux on it and I can't even find it unless I go to the "open source" section or click "reload" on your main page until the Ubuntu banner appears, that's REALLY PATHETIC. =P

M7S
May 27th, 2007, 11:02 PM
I have confirmed that even if you do a "view all notebooks" or "view all desktops" the Ubuntu offerings are not listed. Forgive me, Dell, for being pissed at your Linux visibility, but even when I specifically WANT a computer from you with Linux on it and I can't even find it unless I go to the "open source" section or click "reload" on your main page until the Ubuntu banner appears, that's REALLY PATHETIC. =P
To be fair, they don't list XP machines in their "view all notebooks" and "view all desktops" sections either. The "Still looking for XP" banner at the right is much more visible than the "Open-Source PC" link in the " Essential Links" section, though.

user1397
May 30th, 2007, 02:47 AM
I was just chatting with a dell specialist about potentially buying one of the E520N desktops, and I asked him how the sales of their ubuntu computers were going, and he replied (NOT an exact quote by the way): "well, it's been moderate so far, but you must understand that we're selling these to experienced linux users."

What I thought was funny, was that in the middle of the conversation, I said "and yes, I am familiar with linux in case you were already going to ask me that"

and he replied "yea, we have to ask that question LOL" (funny that a sales rep would use the "LOL" term in such a professional business such as dell computers...

jgcamp99
May 30th, 2007, 03:33 AM
Maybe just me, but I buy a Dell, Vista would be on it, they can stick a livecd of Ubuntu in with it. But really, me buying a Dell, probably won't happen until I get as old as my father who bought his a couple years back.

Most people I know buying Dell's are doing it for the legitimate copy of Vista and no worries. I'll still build mine, get a copy of Vista when I'm forced by my job to work from home. Ubuntu is just fine for my daily home use. It's been a few weeks since I booted Windows XP and that was to make sure it still worked. Been on Ubuntu since June 2006 (6.06 LTS), almost a year now.

kamaboko
May 30th, 2007, 03:35 AM
I'm sorry, but w/no price break I don't see this as very advantageous.

DarkStarAeon
May 30th, 2007, 04:40 AM
I was just chatting with a dell specialist about potentially buying one of the E520N desktops, and I asked him how the sales of their ubuntu computers were going, and he replied (NOT an exact quote by the way): "well, it's been moderate so far, but you must understand that we're selling these to experienced linux users."

What I thought was funny, was that in the middle of the conversation, I said "and yes, I am familiar with linux in case you were already going to ask me that"

and he replied "yea, we have to ask that question LOL" (funny that a sales rep would use the "LOL" term in such a professional business such as dell computers...


Well, I guess moderate is better than poor, heh.

What do they mean by "experienced linux users" though? I mean if you ask the average person who's used linux for 6 months if they feel comfortable with it, most people are going to say they are comfortable. And if you ask them if they are familiar with it and they are using it, they are going to say yes.
My wife has been happily using Ubuntu for 6 months now, and she loves it, but "familiar" and "experienced" are very relative terms. I still have to do "under the hood stuff" as she calls it. lol

Yfrwlf
May 30th, 2007, 05:27 PM
"well, it's been moderate so far, but you must understand that we're selling these to experienced linux users."

Well at least they admit it, but with no price break though, at least when comparing the laptops with the same hardware, there isn't a lot of incentive other than making sure it's compatible Linux hardware, and having it pre-configured for you (even though they probably didn't do much, if any, of that).

You know what really really sucks and what would obliterate MS's Windows sales, which is of course why it's not done, if you could resell Windows after you got it from Dell. That's the way it should be, because then there would be actual competition, and they couldn't just force everyone to buy Windows in that case. Right now, it's very difficult to return Windows and get money for doing so. You really have to wonder why this business practice isn't illegal. I mean seriously, that's totally outrageous that you are forced to buy a product from Microsoft if you want a computer. Well, til now, that is. Of course you can build it yourself too yes, which is cheaper as well, but the problem is most people don't know how so they are basically forced to pay MS. I think they should be charged with a million accounts of racketeering =P

DarkStarAeon
May 30th, 2007, 06:18 PM
I think the only reason they haven't been charged with racketeering is because the government is afraid there computers will stop working if they go after MS. lol

user1397
May 31st, 2007, 06:51 PM
Interseting, the E520N has gone down in price suddenly, not it's at $379 without a monitor and with minimum specs.

sloggerkhan
June 1st, 2007, 01:28 AM
Some info:
IF your university has a student deal with dell, you can get these at 15% discount or whatever your school negotiated if you talk to a dell rep!!

Also, E520 has 305 watt PSU and XPS model has 375 watt PSU.

init1
June 1st, 2007, 02:20 AM
Yes! Finally I can get a cheaper computer! I will defiantly get a dell if no one else does this at the time that I feel like purchasing one!

sloggerkhan
June 1st, 2007, 04:19 AM
Your school has to have a deal with them. I don't think it's for all students.

benanzo
June 1st, 2007, 09:03 PM
According to Fedex, my Dell XPS 410 with Ubuntu is currently on the truck for delivery. I've got my camera ready...

I'll post back soon.

H.E. Pennypacker
June 1st, 2007, 09:48 PM
I have confirmed that even if you do a "view all notebooks" or "view all desktops" the Ubuntu offerings are not listed. Forgive me, Dell, for being pissed at your Linux visibility, but even when I specifically WANT a computer from you with Linux on it and I can't even find it unless I go to the "open source" section or click "reload" on your main page until the Ubuntu banner appears, that's REALLY PATHETIC. =P

Let's be fair about this. Does it really make sense to place a Ubuntu ad everywhere, when most customers are not interested? You're expecting Dell to have Ubuntu side by side, but that makes no sense, since most people are not interested in Ubuntu. Most people don't know about Ubuntu to be interested in it.

hkgonra
June 1st, 2007, 10:08 PM
Let's be fair about this. Does it really make sense to place a Ubuntu ad everywhere, when most customers are not interested? You're expecting Dell to have Ubuntu side by side, but that makes no sense, since most people are not interested in Ubuntu. Most people don't know about Ubuntu to be interested in it.

Actually imho it makes no sense the way Dell is doing os stuff now anyway.
You have to start with a different base from the start just to select xp over vista.
With ubuntu that makes a little sense, since you are only able to get it on select models.
Why not have all of the os choices available for that model available when you are configuring your system ?

benanzo
June 2nd, 2007, 12:25 AM
Just got my Dell XPS 410n with Ubuntu preinstalled. I am writing a little mini-review of the whole machine and process. I will say one thing for now, the Fedex guy asked if Dell was having some sort of liquidation sale because he's seen a surge of deliveries for Dell machines yesterday and today. He told me that I was 5th Dell computer delivery today and he still had 11 more on the truck. He said it was unheard of. Coincidence??? I don't think so.

Swab
June 2nd, 2007, 12:28 AM
Just got my Dell XPS 410n with Ubuntu preinstalled. I am writing a little mini-review of the whole machine and process. I will say one thing for now, the Fedex guy asked if Dell was having some sort of liquidation sale because he's seen a surge of deliveries for Dell machines yesterday and today. He told me that I was 5th Dell computer delivery today and he still had 11 more on the truck. He said it was unheard of. Coincidence??? I don't think so.

Can't wait for the review! First impressions?

sloggerkhan
June 2nd, 2007, 12:34 AM
Just got my Dell XPS 410n with Ubuntu preinstalled. I am writing a little mini-review of the whole machine and process. I will say one thing for now, the Fedex guy asked if Dell was having some sort of liquidation sale because he's seen a surge of deliveries for Dell machines yesterday and today. He told me that I was 5th Dell computer delivery today and he still had 11 more on the truck. He said it was unheard of. Coincidence??? I don't think so.


Maybe all the High School Grads are getting comps for college?

YourSurrogateGod
June 2nd, 2007, 01:13 AM
I'm not too optimistic as to how this turns out. However, it will do something very important. It will create some competition for Microsoft (which is a good thing.)

kamaboko
June 2nd, 2007, 01:26 AM
I will say one thing for now, the Fedex guy asked if Dell was having some sort of liquidation sale because he's seen a surge of deliveries for Dell machines yesterday and today. He told me that I was 5th Dell computer delivery today and he still had 11 more on the truck. He said it was unheard of. Coincidence??? I don't think so.

For the past week or two Dell has had a $500 off coupon for certain Inspiron laptops. I don't think this was an Ubuntu invasion.

YourSurrogateGod
June 2nd, 2007, 01:55 AM
Maybe all the High School Grads are getting comps for college?

Yes, that would be a good explanation.

Too hard to tell unless they release their sales of Ubuntu computers compared to Windows ones.

benanzo
June 2nd, 2007, 02:05 AM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2764621#post2764621

Have at it!

cody50
June 3rd, 2007, 01:38 PM
For the past week or two Dell has had a $500 off coupon for certain Inspiron laptops. I don't think this was an Ubuntu invasion.

The coupon worked for my E1505N loaded with feisty on it. It was any inspiron over $1399.