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newbie2
May 23rd, 2007, 04:19 PM
Dell is moving full speed ahead with its rush to deliver Ubuntu Linux on a bunch of upcoming laptops and desktops, but there's a potential problem looming: Multimedia support on the machines may be spotty.

That word comes via a post on the Direct2Dell blog, from John Hull, Dell's manager of Linux OS Technologies. (Credit and thanks to eWeek blogger Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols for first pointing to this post.)

Here's the money quote from Hull's "Ubuntu 7.04 Offering--Technical Details":

"At this time, we are not including any support for proprietary audio or video codecs that are not already distributed with Ubuntu 7.04. These include MPEG 1/2/3/4, WMA, WMV, DVD, Quicktime, etc. We are evaluating options for providing this support in the future."
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/05/dells_ubuntu_of.html
:rolleyes:

codesplice
May 23rd, 2007, 04:29 PM
So Dell Ubuntu users will have to actually download and install proprietary drivers and codecs? That's horrible!

Oh wait.... hasn't the Linux community been doing that for a while now?

I'm not sure that I see the problem.... I still have far less configuring to do on a fresh Ubuntu install than I did on the WinXP install I did a few weeks ago...

kprowell
May 23rd, 2007, 04:37 PM
I tend to agree with Codesplice. Ubuntu doesn't come with any codec's installed either. Now, what would be cool is if they installed Automatix and had some instructions/information included that would walk someone through getting those items installed.

Sunflower1970
May 23rd, 2007, 05:40 PM
I dunno. That doesn't seem like a real big deal to me...I remember in Windows having to hunt around for quite a time to find software to play some of my DVD's (non RC 1 DVD's I have) . I ended up paying $20 for a program that would mask the coding in PowerDVD...this was before I was introduced to VLC. (DOH!)

At leas the codecs in Ubuntu are much easier to find using Synaptic. It's all in one place. To me, that was a huge plus. Also, Automatix for Edgy. Again, that was a help (Haven't had to use Automatix at all in Feisty :) )

drkknight
May 23rd, 2007, 05:45 PM
A simple solution for Dell is to make a little blurb somewhere on how to install the codecs or explaining that if you try to play a file that you don't have a codec for, Feisty will try to get it for you. It's pretty simple with Feisty now so I don't really see a problem.

aysiu
May 23rd, 2007, 05:47 PM
I don't see why the title of this thread relates in any way to its content. Linux is its own worst enemy because Dell isn't including codecs with preinstalled Ubuntu? Where's the logic in that? Windows also doesn't include a bunch of codecs with its vanilla installation, but Dell installs it on their Windows systems.

Lucifiel
May 23rd, 2007, 05:54 PM
Huh? Even Windows doesn't preload codecs, you know?

Unless you're talking about preloaded installations whereby codecs are already loaded. But even then, only certain avis will be playable and not most of them.

Geekkit
May 23rd, 2007, 06:55 PM
I don't see why the title of this thread relates in any way to its content. Linux is its own worst enemy because Dell isn't including codecs with preinstalled Ubuntu? Where's the logic in that? Windows also doesn't include a bunch of codecs with its vanilla installation, but Dell installs it on their Windows systems.

Nothing more than FUD. Nothing to see here. Move along.

23meg
May 23rd, 2007, 07:43 PM
(Credit and thanks to eWeek blogger Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols for first pointing to this post.)

Since credit goes to the FUDmaster, what do you expect?

compiledkernel
May 23rd, 2007, 08:56 PM
I tend to agree with Codesplice. Ubuntu doesn't come with any codec's installed either. Now, what would be cool is if they installed Automatix and had some instructions/information included that would walk someone through getting those items installed.

I believe that Automatix documentation is still being worked on, of which Im to understand is slightly lacking.

It might be better to consider viewing the help documentation actually built into ubuntu itself (not that many users actually hit the Help button) most of whats in there forwards to help.ubuntu.com and the wiki (http://wiki.ubuntu.com) more specifically the Restricted Formats page

Mateo
May 23rd, 2007, 09:00 PM
I'm not sure that I see the problem.... I still have far less configuring to do on a fresh Ubuntu install than I did on the WinXP install I did a few weeks ago...

yes, but you're comparing Install to Install. Do you have to do any configuring on a fresh windows preinstalled computer? No, nor should you for a preinstalled ubuntu computer.

matthinckley
May 23rd, 2007, 09:03 PM
What's the big deal? Feisty installs the codecs automatically whenever you try to play a file you don't have a codec for anyways..

Mateo
May 23rd, 2007, 09:06 PM
What's the big deal? Feisty installs the codecs automatically whenever you try to play a file you don't have a codec for anyways..

DVDs too?

Dell isn't installing hardware drivers either (if they aren't included by default). This means they better not be using ATI video cards, otherwise everyone will have to install their own.

Sunflower1970
May 23rd, 2007, 09:10 PM
yes, but you're comparing Install to Install. Do you have to do any configuring on a fresh windows preinstalled computer? No, nor should you for a preinstalled ubuntu computer.

There's a bit of configuring. When I did get my brand new Dell years ago, I had to do some installing of drivers from CD's that came with the computer. A CD for the monitor, another one for the video card, the speakers, and the sound card not to mention all the security updates, the restarting over and over and over of the computer till it was up and running.

At least with Ubuntu when the codecs are installed there's no rebooting...

I'd rather put up with the way Ubuntu does it than Windows. Ubuntu's is all in one place. Windows was CD after CD after CD with drivers on it..

Sunflower1970
May 23rd, 2007, 09:11 PM
DVDs too?

Dell isn't installing hardware drivers either (if they aren't included by default). This means they better not be using ATI video cards, otherwise everyone will have to install their own.

From what I've been reading it's nVidia cards which will be used.

prizrak
May 23rd, 2007, 09:15 PM
DVDs too?

Dell isn't installing hardware drivers either (if they aren't included by default). This means they better not be using ATI video cards, otherwise everyone will have to install their own.

No DVDs will not be playable without libdvdcss. I was surprised that Dell didn't make any kind of a deal with LinDVD. Although they do have media connect, which I think handles DVD's as well. Dell will be installing all the hardware drivers necessary, where did you get the idea otherwise? They will use FLOSS where possible and restricted where necessary.

codesplice
May 23rd, 2007, 09:25 PM
There's a bit of configuring. When I did get my brand new Dell years ago, I had to do some installing of drivers from CD's that came with the computer. A CD for the monitor, another one for the video card, the speakers, and the sound card not to mention all the security updates, the restarting over and over and over of the computer till it was up and running.

At least with Ubuntu when the codecs are installed there's no rebooting...

I'd rather put up with the way Ubuntu does it than Windows. Ubuntu's is all in one place. Windows was CD after CD after CD with drivers on it..

Bingo. I've got I think four different CDs that all came with my laptop for configuring the various hardware for XP.

MichaelSM
May 24th, 2007, 10:16 AM
No matter how the wheelings and dealings go, there will always be one or two small points which make a deal or kill it.
Going by recent posts, getting many modern printer/faxes to run in Linux still isn't as easy as it should be. Throwing in CDs is easy-peasy. Nearly anyone can do it. PLUS the graphical interfaces are what a hell of a lot people are used to. Blame the printer manufacturers if you like. ..I don't think that's the point.
Next, DIAL-UP. There's not much to say, really. Millions of people still need to use it, and especially with a laptop I can't imagine them wanting to cart around a bulky 12-year-old secondhand serial modem; but I could be wrong.
I don't have Feisty but it was a bit tricky with BlueTooth/Edgy. I was very lucky having a lot of spare time to trawl through hundreds of posts and get a satisfactory conclusion for file transfers with my mobile. And I'm only fiddling with basic stuff. It takes a bit of nous as a newbie(12 months with various distros now) to sudo gedit /usr/xxx/yyy/files and fart around with authorizations and permissions trying to get something to work- or not.
All I'm trying to say is that I hope Dell did their research, and that they make it plainly clear to Linux/Ubuntu new users that there's a lot of leg-work to do, otherwise Linux (and especially Ubuntu) is gonna get a shocking bad name. How many folk are interested in double user/password entries just to start up their desktop? I know it's easy to re-configure but how many others don't?
In a way it doesn't bother me at all. I'm delighted with Ubuntu(apart from dial-up issues, which I'd like to think will be first off the rank so far as patches are concerned, assuming a massive increase in complaints as new users can't get on-line)
If I'm sounding bitchy, it's just astonished practical bitchery. I simply don't think Feisty, from what I've read in this Forum, is anywhere near ready for distribution to people who have no idea what they're getting into.
Hope I'm wrong.
Mike.
PS. I have a nasty mind and if I were a MS employee I'd have stacked the responses to Dell's Linux kite-flying some months ago now, just to see the whole shooting-match implode.
I'm trying to be practical. This is not meant to be a rant. If enough forum people hate what I say I'll delete it.:(
PPS. re. arrangement between MS/Novell/Suse. Bet my leftie that dial-up's not gonna be an issue with that deal.

prizrak
May 24th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Going by recent posts, getting many modern printer/faxes to run in Linux still isn't as easy as it should be.
Printers are actually pretty simple to get working as long as they are supported. With local printers CUPS generally detects them right off and with network printers you can browse for them. I've set up a bunch with my Linux boxes and only had trouble with Lexmark and only because the drivers weren't there.

Next, DIAL-UP. There's not much to say, really. Millions of people still need to use it, and especially with a laptop I can't imagine them wanting to cart around a bulky 12-year-old secondhand serial modem; but I could be wrong.
Ubuntu sux on Dial Up in general, all the updates and installing stuff from Synaptic would be a huge pain. Dell did say that they will be preloading the modem drivers so there is hope for the unfortunate.

I don't have Feisty but it was a bit tricky with BlueTooth/Edgy.
Yes, you are very right BT BLOWS. I hear KDE has better BT tools but too lazy to test it. In Gnome the GUI might not as well be there.

If I'm sounding bitchy, it's just astonished practical bitchery. I simply don't think Feisty, from what I've read in this Forum, is anywhere near ready for distribution to people who have no idea what they're getting into.
You can't judge the OS by it's SUPPORT forum. As Aysiu likes to say, "if you hang out in the hospital and never see the outside world you'll think everyone is sick". You should really try Feisty before forming any kind of an opinion on it. Feisty's "readiness" is very dependant on what is going to be in those boxes and what people would like to use it for. Far as I know Dell is offering 3 boxes with Ubuntu on it and will not have Bluetooth in any of them.

Also as per Dell's own admition they are offering those systems for the Linux enthusiast market. Just in general no "average" user is going to buy a Linux system as they would at least have to know about it existing and are generally not the kind to want to try something new. It is a great move for all us Linux geeks who actually know people that would benefit from Linux but would not offer to install it for them (there are many reasons).

Gargamella
May 24th, 2007, 03:56 PM
i install codecs in few clicks but for people without a internet connection it is a real pain:

cannot play mp3,videos, dvds and so on

MichaelSM
May 24th, 2007, 03:57 PM
Thank you Prizrak from the Ukraine via old Russia.(By the way, I actually know where the Ukraine is.) One of the most wonderful things about open source is open communications and everyone's desire to help each other around the world. Thank you for picking up my smart-*** comments.
It comes down to this.
I've been Linux for 11 months. Eventually I caught on to Ubuntu several months ago, and I've worked my butt off to get everything I need up and running. I cannot imagine changing distros. It's been a lot of hard work. No complaints at all . It's a free OS and you gotta take the bad with the good. Most of it's good. Some of it's horrible.
The main point I was trying to make was Dell's grabbing onto a fairly messy distro like Feisty as an intro for Dell's newest laptop buyers. All I can see, my friend, is chaos. And a bad name for Linux.
I had a friend of mine over here last week-end, and invited him to try out my Linux/Ubuntu OS just to see what he thought. 'WOW!' more like a Mac etc. well, that's life. Very functional without all the bells and whistles you get with Windows CDs. WOW. Again. I guess Cam thought I'd be playing with DOS. I gave him a box with Edgy on it. Plus all the razzamatazz like Frostwire which depends upon a Java package non-intrinsic with Edgy, which is a 53 meg download from Sun-Java, which means, for a newbie on dial-up, if they can get it(which they can't without being a bloody programmer) it's pretty awful.
I'm only squeaking in the distance. I remarked to a friend (?, of course) on this Forum about the sorts of people who give Linux a go. It's the BEST thing I ever did, but I can create a lot of spare time when needed, to f@#k with all sorts of worries and finally get a 100% result. A lot of other people don't have that time to frig around.
What will kill Dell's dive into Linux(and it's a bit of a worry that Ubuntu Feisty was the OS of choice- why?) will simply be the sheer fact that folks will be sucked back into Windows unless we get our act together. Why, for instance, should it take anyone's time to hit this Forum to find a lib/k3b2/mp3 package simply to burn a CD? A bit bizarre.
Jeso Christo, my Mum has a box running Mandriva 2006, and its Totem player will play just about anything. Mandriva supported dial-up as well. I'm talking the single CD not the 3 CD massive one.
I know that someone out there will say;'Mick, if you don't like it, **** off and use another distro.' Well, fair enough. But I won't change. Ubuntu is the best distro I've tried. It's my choice and I'll stick with it.
Trouble is; the version put out there recently via Dell is hardly something to hang your hat on. It could set Linux back a long way. That's my only concern. Other than that, Cheers to all!
Mike.

MichaelSM
May 24th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Hi Gargamella. Download VLC from Admin> Synaptic. That's only part of the problem but it works. Mike .Re. DVDs. Hmmm. Best of luck. Love to all in Fano, Italy. From MIke in Australia.

hkgonra
May 24th, 2007, 04:23 PM
yes, but you're comparing Install to Install. Do you have to do any configuring on a fresh windows preinstalled computer? No, nor should you for a preinstalled ubuntu computer.

I beg to differ , get a new Dell ( or any other OEM ) with xp or vista pre-installed and you will spend less time formatting and re-installing windows to get things running decent than you will spend trying to get rid of all the bullcrap added to the instalation in order to get it running half-way decent.

bobbocanfly
May 24th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Dont understand this either. I had to search for ages for Avi/DivX/XviD codecs for windows. Plus on the hunt i got infected with spyware at least twice. Codecs are actually simpler to install in Feisty than on XP.

Tomosaur
May 24th, 2007, 05:24 PM
yes, but you're comparing Install to Install. Do you have to do any configuring on a fresh windows preinstalled computer? No, nor should you for a preinstalled ubuntu computer.

Are you kidding me? Dell aren't going to just throw Ubuntu at any old computer and say 'have fun!'. They're finding all of the best hardware to work under Ubuntu, out of the box. Even Dell themselves don't need to do any configuration post-install, unlike on Windows where Dell themselves actually have to install the drivers and whatnot. If hardware is supported under Ubuntu, it'll work out of the box, simple as that. All Dell need to do is build a machine with supported hardware.

prizrak
May 24th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Trouble is; the version put out there recently via Dell is hardly something to hang your hat on. It could set Linux back a long way. That's my only concern. Other than that, Cheers to all!
The reason why they went with Ubuntu
1) Mike Dell uses it
2) It's free
Dell is simply not prepared to commit to the whole Linux thing all the way so they chose a very popular distro that alot of people asked for that also happens to be free. If they truly wanted to make a Windows "replacement" PC with Linux on it they would have gone with SLED, it includes a fair bit of codecs out of the box, has a decent GUI tool for control of just about everything and comes on a DVD making it easy for the Dial Up folk to get stuff.

Dont understand this either. I had to search for ages for Avi/DivX/XviD codecs for windows. Plus on the hunt i got infected with spyware at least twice. Codecs are actually simpler to install in Feisty than on XP.

I don't understand why it took you long to find any codecs for XP. There are three things that need to be done to XP to make it play pretty much everything. K-lite codec pack, Real Alternative, Quicktime alternative that is it, they are all found at the same site.

gmc
May 24th, 2007, 05:36 PM
Hi Folks,

You know there are a lot of valid reasons for and against Dell's head long rush into Linux (esp Ubuntu), however let's hypothetically say that Dell starts selling Ubuntu loaded systems hand over fist. I've yet to see anyone comment on how the Ubuntu servers (and mirrors) will handle such a load, especially when there's a critical or new software updates.

Look at how the servers stood up to the pounding we gave them with Fiesty arrived... I shudder to think on it.

Gord

thunderkyss
May 24th, 2007, 05:37 PM
A simple solution for Dell is to make a little blurb somewhere on how to install the codecs or explaining that if you try to play a file that you don't have a codec for, Feisty will try to get it for you. It's pretty simple with Feisty now so I don't really see a problem.

Or... when Firefox pops up, it could take the new owner to an Ubuntu site, that has a link to this place. But Firefox already does that on a fresh install. Chances are Dell will have Dell.com as the homepage, but there should be an Ubuntu Link.


I don't see why the title of this thread relates in any way to its content. Linux is its own worst enemy because Dell isn't including codecs with preinstalled Ubuntu? Where's the logic in that? Windows also doesn't include a bunch of codecs with its vanilla installation, but Dell installs it on their Windows systems.

That's true, as far as I know, Windows doesn't include codecs for anything but .wma & .wmv, they don't even support .ogg, and it's free.

DVD codecs have to be supplied by whatever software is used to play DVDs... Dell could install something if they wish.. but it's too easy to get the codecs through Synaptic... it puts the legal burden on me though, so it would probably be best for Dell to pre-install Asus DVD Pro or something.

thunderkyss
May 24th, 2007, 05:48 PM
No DVDs will not be playable without libdvdcss. I was surprised that Dell didn't make any kind of a deal with LinDVD. Although they do have media connect, which I think handles DVD's as well. Dell will be installing all the hardware drivers necessary, where did you get the idea otherwise? They will use FLOSS where possible and restricted where necessary.

depends on what kind of DVD I think. On my last fresh install, I threw in a DVD, Ubuntu asked me if I wanted to download one of the Gstreamer packages, I said yes, and I was watcing that DVD a few seconds later.

Quake
May 24th, 2007, 05:56 PM
Some of you guys live under a fantasy!
Most computers with Windows XP/Vista doesn't come with all the codecs needed (Only M$'s format and mp3.

A friend recently brought a laptop with Windows Vista and guess what? he couldn't view those divx .AVIs... so he had to download either divx, xvid or ffmpeg. And that's a DELL.

So people, don't be expecting too much! Plus, Vista doesn't have an easy codec download dialog. The person must first go to the codecs' website and download it.
While in Ubuntu, if a video doesn't play, it asks you if you want to download the codec and off you go! easy.

prizrak
May 24th, 2007, 06:17 PM
depends on what kind of DVD I think. On my last fresh install, I threw in a DVD, Ubuntu asked me if I wanted to download one of the Gstreamer packages, I said yes, and I was watcing that DVD a few seconds later.

The ones that don't have CSS will work just fine. The problem is not inability to playback an MPEG2 stream it's the content protection.

prizrak
May 24th, 2007, 06:19 PM
Some of you guys live under a fantasy!
Most computers with Windows XP/Vista doesn't come with all the codecs needed (Only M$'s format and mp3.

A friend recently brought a laptop with Windows Vista and guess what? he couldn't view those divx .AVIs... so he had to download either divx, xvid or ffmpeg. And that's a DELL.

So people, don't be expecting too much! Plus, Vista doesn't have an easy codec download dialog. The person must first go to the codecs' website and download it.
While in Ubuntu, if a video doesn't play, it asks you if you want to download the codec and off you go! easy.

HP plays Divx just fine, depends on the OEM. Point being that Dell could quite easily install all the necessary codecs and even pay for the ones that aren't free or reverse engineered they however do not seem to want to bother with it.

hkgonra
May 24th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Hi Folks,

You know there are a lot of valid reasons for and against Dell's head long rush into Linux (esp Ubuntu), however let's hypothetically say that Dell starts selling Ubuntu loaded systems hand over fist. I've yet to see anyone comment on how the Ubuntu servers (and mirrors) will handle such a load, especially when there's a critical or new software updates.

Look at how the servers stood up to the pounding we gave them with Fiesty arrived... I shudder to think on it.

Gord

Hopefully conical is prepared for that.

Quake
May 24th, 2007, 09:25 PM
Hi Folks,

You know there are a lot of valid reasons for and against Dell's head long rush into Linux (esp Ubuntu), however let's hypothetically say that Dell starts selling Ubuntu loaded systems hand over fist. I've yet to see anyone comment on how the Ubuntu servers (and mirrors) will handle such a load, especially when there's a critical or new software updates.

Look at how the servers stood up to the pounding we gave them with Fiesty arrived... I shudder to think on it.

Gord

Hey true... If a lot of people adopt Ubuntu at the same time *like Dell*, I wonder how the repositories are going to cope. All the bandwidth that is going to be used is well... mindblowing...

Btw, those thought might be a little too optimistic about a huge adoption :P

dbreton
May 25th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure why this is such a big deal.

"sudo apt-get intsall mplayer"

There you go. Problem solved.

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2007, 05:06 PM
I tend to agree with Codesplice. Ubuntu doesn't come with any codec's installed either. Now, what would be cool is if they installed Automatix and had some instructions/information included that would walk someone through getting those items installed.

Dude, you click on a file it asks if you want to install the needed codec and bam, you got it. If that ain't an installer I don't know what is.

nuser101
May 25th, 2007, 05:21 PM
If you're targeting the new user, the absence of pre-installed codecs (which come pre-installed on a new Dell machine with Windoze, even if Windoze doesn't include them by default) is, in fact, a big deal. Don't we want novices to join the community?

However, an even bigger deal is the pricing of the XPS 410 (Windoze Visiblind Home Premium) at $899, including AV software, vs. UBUNTU 7.04 at, you guessed it $899. So, I have an echat with a sales rep to discuss the incongruity of paying just as much for a free operating system as one that retails for $150. The entire session follows:

System Initial Question/Comment: Why is Ubuntu XPS 410 N same price as Windows XPS 410? Isn't Ubuntu GNU Licensed? Shouldn't the system be less expensive?
System CU_Rep_Gregory has joined this session!
System Connected with CU_Rep_Gregory
CU_Rep_Gregory Welcome to Dell Sales Chat. My name is Greg I'll be your personal sales agent today. Give me a moment to review your concern, please don't go away.
CU_Rep_Gregory hi Nuser.
Nuser101 Hi Greg
CU_Rep_Gregory I'm sorry but we do not have available information how Dell price their products.
Nuser101 OK, so it makes more sense to buy a Windows PC, and download UBUNTU and install it yourself then, right?
CU_Rep_Gregory yes.
Nuser101 OK, thanks for your time.
CU_Rep_Gregory you're welcome Nuser.
CU_Rep_Gregory Is there anything else I can do to help you with this concern?
Nuser101 No, I'm a little disappointed, to be honest, but your response indicates there's nothing you can do about it. Thanks again.:(

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 05:50 PM
If you're targeting the new user, the absence of pre-installed codecs (which come pre-installed on a new Dell machine with Windoze, even if Windoze doesn't include them by default) is, in fact, a big deal. Which is why the article in question should be entitled Dell's Ubuntu Offering Shows Why Dell Could Have Done a Better Job Implementing Its New Launch. Preinstalled codecs are the responsibility of Dell, not Ubuntu or Windows. That's how it's always been.

dca
May 25th, 2007, 06:55 PM
I'm still not taking Dell seriously on this. I think it's to prove a point or something. Ubuntu is being pre-installed on Dell because it's currently the most popular flavor (and has been) hands down. If Dell was taking this whole thing seriously, on their server side they would offer 606LTS alongside (not to mention the agreement between Dell/Novell/MS) SLES10...

Ateo
May 25th, 2007, 07:26 PM
how and why is this a problem? you mean they will actually have to download these things??? OH MY..

Windows users ALSO have to download codecs to play DVDs so what's the problem?

aysiu
May 25th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Windows users ALSO have to download codecs to play DVDs so what's the problem? I don't know how it is now, but when I've bought Windows computers in the past (one of them from Dell), the OEM always included some kind of DVD-playing software in addition to Windows (InterVideo WinDVD or PowerDVD). So it's correct to say that Windows doesn't include the DVD-playing codecs, but it's not necessarily true that Windows users have to download them manually.

nuser101
May 26th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Which is why the article in question should be entitled Dell's Ubuntu Offering Shows Why Dell Could Have Done a Better Job Implementing Its New Launch. Preinstalled codecs are the responsibility of Dell, not Ubuntu or Windows. That's how it's always been.

Yes, that's how its always been, but Linux has to play hardball if it wants to catch up. Canonical should have been involved in the branding and positioning of this from the get-go, to ensure a smooth novice experience. Instead, it let Dell dictate the terms of the deal. Do you think Microsoft lets OEMs dictate their software deals?

I'm sorry, but blaming Dell just leaves Linux exactly where it is- a coder/hacker heaven, that one can choose to learn a great deal from. Unfortunately, that doesn't constitute a majority user pool, and that's what we all want, isn't it?

aysiu
May 26th, 2007, 12:21 AM
Do you think Microsoft lets OEMs dictate their software deals? Do you think Ubuntu has the kind of leverage Microsoft has to negotiate? Besides, even though the codecs being there would be handy for new users, codec installation is extremely easy in 7.04.

Ripfox
May 29th, 2007, 06:22 AM
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/05/21/15563.aspx

Is this gonna do it?

zugu
May 29th, 2007, 01:21 PM
I have the same dilemma as ripfox. Can anyone shed some light on the possible legal issues?

HappyHenry
December 28th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Contrary to the title, “...Linux own worst enemy...” I think the point here shows the strength of Linux and Ubuntu. The real life experience of the purchase of a proprietary free laptop with Ubuntu as the OS would lead the user to a user web page such as this one.
I have found a few very nice windows help blogs but nothing that comes close to Ubuntu Forums here. I could post the horror stories of any tech support call to Microsoft. I can understand, from the legality standpoint, no manufacturer would want to pay extra for use of a copyright name in their manual, just to instruct its users on something two seconds and a web search will show them how to do. My wifes Macbook and Ipod didn't come with what I would call much of a manual. The manual was basically, “look it up on the mac web sight.” I think the best any manufacturer could do is to leave the Linux install as open source and have a built in “hot button” to a Linux family web site. Oh wait, Ubuntu does that too! Every distro of Ubuntu that I have tried since, I think, 2003 has had a Bookmark in the browser for support.
No, this does not show Linux is it's own worst enemy”. It shows Linux and especially Ubuntu are wonderful open source products that are wonderfully supported by a family of users all, free. No, I don't ever hope, for Linux or Ubuntu to become comparable to Windows. Linux is far superior to Windonts for the very reasons that this, “problem,” shows. Linux does not depend on any grandfather company approving software just so they can get a cut of the profits. Thats the problem demonstrated in this post. Company profits and that will be with any OS ...except Linux. Because of the insight of Linus Torvalds and his GPL. Thank you MR. Torvalds, Ubuntu Forums family and Dell. And, for those who see this as a hurdle that Linux or Ubuntu has caused or causes or even needs to overcome, please realize every piece of proprietary software cost the manufacturer and therefore the user money and limits the possibility of development of the same system. Freedom was never free and GPL has a cost as well, you must want it. I for one want Dell and other companies to keep the Linux clean on new systems, the GPL is there for a very very good reason! Freedom and development.

Keyper7
December 28th, 2009, 03:31 PM
The undead! Shoot 'em in the head! Shoot 'em in the head!

Queue29
December 28th, 2009, 03:50 PM
Reading through the whole thread I wanted to point out one thing: Windows 7 includes pretty much every codec you can think of, while Ubuntu continues to include almost nothing. But then I realized the thread is from 2007. :KS

Eclipse.
December 28th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Reading through the whole thread I wanted to point out one thing: Windows 7 includes pretty much every codec you can think of, while Ubuntu continues to include almost nothing. But then I realized the thread is from 2007. :KS

We cant include the codecs for legal reasons.:(

Not long though until mp3 enters public domain.On a side note, dell now ships ubuntu with codecs.

orlox
December 28th, 2009, 04:23 PM
The undead! Shoot 'em in the head! Shoot 'em in the head!


Reading through the whole thread I wanted to point out one thing: Windows 7 includes pretty much every codec you can think of, while Ubuntu continues to include almost nothing. But then I realized the thread is from 2007. :KS


We cant include the codecs for legal reasons.:(

Not long though until mp3 enters public domain.On a side note, dell now ships ubuntu with codecs.

It refuses to die! return to your grave you undead topic!!

mickie.kext
December 28th, 2009, 05:10 PM
Reading through the whole thread I wanted to point out one thing: Windows 7 includes pretty much every codec you can think of, while Ubuntu continues to include almost nothing. But then I realized the thread is from 2007. :KS
Windows codecs cost money and are included in price of Windows. Exept those for WMV, that is M$ property anyway. And Windows do not include codecs for everything. Half of things do not work, and you again have same choice like on Ubuntu: a) Download illegal codecs b) Buy legal ones.

If you want to buy codecs for Linux, look for Fluendo.

Artificial Intelligence
December 28th, 2009, 05:17 PM
http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/142275/0/necromancer.png

Thread closed.