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aysiu
May 21st, 2007, 04:31 PM
Someone linked to this interesting essay on not helping Windows users (http://popey.com/Helping_Windows_Users).

I find the idea fascinating, but I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to do it.

First of all, I don't think I'd be able to support any Ubuntu problem that came up (particularly hardware compatibility issues). I can support myself. Sometimes I can support people on the forums (depending on what the problem is), but I couldn't, in good conscience, tell someone, "I won't fix your Windows problems, but I will fix your Ubuntu problems." If there was a Ubuntu problem that I couldn't fix... well, the likelihood one of my friends, co-workers, or relatives would know someone else who could fix them is pretty low... and they'd be s out of luck.

Secondly, I know a lot of people who use Windows-only software, and I wouldn't feel comfortable switching them over to Ubuntu.

Lastly, I don't think people should be coerced into using Ubuntu. If you get people to use Ubuntu by saying, "Because I refuse to support Windows," people will likely either pay for Windows support (something like Geek Squad) and just think you're being unhelpful, or switch to Ubuntu begrudgingly and blame you and/or Ubuntu for any difficulty they encounter.

I appreciate that the no-Windows-support policy works for the author of that essay, but I believe in taking it slow with people and having them take ownership so that it is not "Oh the thing he put me on" but more of "the Windows alternative he introduced me to."

What do others do? What have your experiences been with different approaches to supporting or not supporting Windows users?

ComplexNumber
May 21st, 2007, 04:39 PM
i will help anyone with whatever if i know the answers.

PartisanEntity
May 21st, 2007, 04:47 PM
I am fully in agreement with you aysiu, it is quite short-sighted to say that we will not help someone unless they use Ubuntu, by doing so we show how uninformed we are since Linux is not the answer for everyone, or not the answer they need at a specific time.

In fact I believe it would harm the Linux community if more of us went around saying something like that. It is similar to forcing someone into something when it wasn't on their mind in the first place.

If someone comes to me because their Outlook email client is not working, it would be silly to tell them that switching to an entirely new operating system and learning all these new tools, commands and methods is the answer.

Ubuntu can be offered as a solution to informed users who are dissatisfied with an operating system, not to someone who just needs some little issue fixed.

Windows does cover the needs of many non-power users, they may be perfectly happy since they are not demanding of the system, offering Ubuntu would force them on a steep slope when they are not ready or motivated to do so.

I did not switch to Linux the moment I heard about it, I switched when I was ready even though I had been thinking about Linux for many years.

Malta paul
May 21st, 2007, 04:54 PM
Yes if asked and I am able to, I will help anyone who uses a computer regardless of their operating system.

aysiu
May 21st, 2007, 04:54 PM
So I'm not alone. Sometimes it's good to know you're not alone.

What I won't do, I will say, is support someone who does not follow my advice. If I set up a limited user account for a Windows user and tell that person not to log in as administrator for everyday use, and she goes ahead and does it... well, tough luck if she gets a virus.

But PartisanEntity is absolutely right. Someone who is having a small error message in one Windows application does not need all the trauma and learning curve of having an entirely new operating system with an entirely new set of applications.

I do try, whenever possible, to introduce people to open source Windows applications, for a few reasons:

1. I believe it will save them money and heartache in the long run once they realize there is trustworthy cost-free software out there (not just "freeware" or "shareware," which sometimes means "spyware").

2. It gets them comfortable with the idea of open source, which may eventually get them comfortable with an open source operating system.

3. It makes it easier for me to support them, seeing as how I use open source applications (even on Windows at work).

So when someone (whom I know does not use Macros or anything fancy) asked me if I had a spare copy of Microsoft Office, I introduced her to OpenOffice. It took quite a bit of explaining, but she got it eventually and saved a few hundred bucks... or piracy.

starcraft.man
May 21st, 2007, 04:59 PM
An interesting article Aysiu. I gotta say, its a different POV on how to go about things, and perhaps rightly so in some respects.

In all honesty though, questions I get from friends and others don't usually involve windows per se but rather Apps running on it, and problems they have getting it working. Maybe thats splitting hairs but I want to be clear, I also don't mind answering questions on them. After using windows for so long, I've almost seen it all... and I don't want to have a scorched earth policy of refusing support, I do often sometimes suggest Ubuntu as the man slyly did in his article, and sometimes I get converts other times not. Sometimes I do even get a whole discussion going and point out easily to the person I'm talking to that there is nothing they do (90% of the time) that requires a windows based PC.

In the end, I think its about choice, you can't box people in until they have no choice but to convert, you have to let them come to you :).

Edit: hehe, fast with the posting aysiu :p Ya, I do the same, open office is really all a good majority of people need out there. Many just don't use the "power user" features in office, and a lot of them don't realize its completely unnecessary if they don't.

ajifans
May 21st, 2007, 05:01 PM
I happily help Windows users out. However I usually let them know that the problem is Windows specific, and that there are alternatives ;)

Buffalo Soldier
May 21st, 2007, 05:19 PM
I happily help Windows users out. However I usually let them know that the problem is Windows specific, and that there are alternatives ;)

Same goes here. I always bring my laptop together and give them a preview of Ubuntu. Most are not interested at all, but a few would ask me to install a dual-boot for their computer.

But there are some who would call me back after a few months and tell me they've had it with windows and would like to give linux / ubuntu a shot.

prizrak
May 21st, 2007, 05:27 PM
I help those I know, after all it's not a good idea to tell your girlfriend you won't help her with a Windows problem when she's trying to print something for a final project ;)

ceciliaFX
May 21st, 2007, 05:28 PM
people Always need help with Windows :)

I always inform anyone I help that they wouldn't have these problems if they used another OS.

anyway, when you sucessfully help someone they are more likely to believe you when you give them advice.

23meg
May 21st, 2007, 06:38 PM
I help people with all their computer problems, but if they're using a proprietary OS, I drop a mention of Ubuntu at the end.

aysiu
May 21st, 2007, 06:40 PM
Twenty seven poll votes, and it looks as if we're a pretty accommodating bunch. Not too many in the "tough love" camp so far.

JerseyShoreComputer
May 21st, 2007, 06:41 PM
That is what we are here for...

JenniferE
May 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM
I'm not a Windows expert, but if I can help someone, I will. I used windows for years and people helped me when I had issues from time to time. I can remember how frustrating it was not knowing what to do or how to fix something. If I know how to help them, I will. If not, I'll see if I can refer them to some place or someone that might be able to help.

eentonig
May 21st, 2007, 07:03 PM
I voted 'other'

Allthough I will always help people with their windows problems, I get more and more frustrated and unwilling to do so. Not because I consider *Linux* to be the better choice and they should use that. Far off. It's rather because I work in Telecom, everybody just asumes you know everyting about computers and throw their problems to you. While, apart from the obvious user experience, I have no specific Windows or Ms knowledge at all.

I do manage to solve most of their problems, but that's basically because I read the error messages the systems throw me in the face. So I get irritated to solve 99% of the time problems that they could solve themselves. (if they understand english, that is)

prizrak
May 22nd, 2007, 12:03 AM
Twenty seven poll votes, and it looks as if we're a pretty accommodating bunch. Not too many in the "tough love" camp so far.

You should take that poll on Gentoo forum ;)

loathsome
May 22nd, 2007, 12:06 AM
I usually helps whoever needs help :)

Lucifiel
May 22nd, 2007, 12:12 AM
Eh, it depends. Most of the people I know are solely Windows users and trust me, I've played tech support advisor for long enough, to stop doing it anymore.

I mean, why bother when they won't even want to learn a bit more to stop the problems from happening again? :p I think that somehow Windows makes the user:

a) become too exasperated to want to work with it anymore

b) or become lazy.

jariku
May 22nd, 2007, 07:16 AM
I help if I can and usually we'll try to find the reason for the problems also, so I don't have to help with the same thing again in a month or two. :)

Now I'm trying to get a friend of mine (whose personal helpdesk/computer technician I am at the moment) to make a switch from Windows 2000 to Ubuntu in the near future. The only thing he really needs in Windows that's not in Ubuntu is Cool Edit (he tried Audacity 1.2.x and didn't like it) so I have to look into getting that thing to run on Wine eventually.

EDIT: Oh bugger, I just remembered that he has my old Agfa scanner that doesn't have drivers for anything newer than Windows 2000 and when I had it, it didn't work in Linux. Seems like I have to do some proper research on the matter after all. :D

azkehmm
May 22nd, 2007, 08:28 AM
I do manage to solve most of their problems, but that's basically because I read the error messages the systems throw me in the face. So I get irritated to solve 99% of the time problems that they could solve themselves. (if they understand english, that is)

Yeah... I'll help anyone who come to me and say they don't understand a particular error message, simply because that tells me they've read it. I do have classmates, however, who seem to be unable to grasp the concept that most of the time, the computer tells you what is wrong, and when I ask them about the error message, I get a stubborn, "I didn't read that." I can't help those poeple, then...

PartisanEntity
May 22nd, 2007, 09:09 AM
Luckily most of my friends are Windows power users so I am not bombarded with any support requests. In fact one of my friends was recently contracted by a company to hack into their own server and retrieve the admin password because the system administrator they had fired refused to give them any info :)

I do however get support requests from family and colleagues and this is always about Windows, and as I said earlier, I don't mind helping out. But I would only mention Ubuntu if they are a power user who is ready to try something new out.

smoker
May 22nd, 2007, 09:18 AM
i always try to help out anyone i can, whether windows or not. once a windows computer user has his/her computer fixed by me a few times, and a working 'trust' has been established, then that is when to mention linux and open source, and offer to install it for them if they'd like to try. the majority of windows users though just want a working windows and don't even want to attempt new things, but by plugging away about linux, bit by bit... well, y'never know, next time they lose their crucial data!

STREETURCHINE
May 22nd, 2007, 09:40 AM
yes i help a fair few people out here in the bush as i am closer than town and a fair bit cheaper(free).most days i have a computer or two to clean out the virusus,and spyware.
and i have even done a couple of duel boots with ubuntu for them

use a name
May 22nd, 2007, 10:45 AM
Of course, I'll do the best I can. But, if relevant, I'll mention Ubuntu or some other linux distro as a possible solution.

sedatg
May 22nd, 2007, 11:38 AM
I only help out people that don't think their time is more valuable then time. This mostly means people who are willing to pay for my help. Friends who are willing to listen when I explain them what happened and do their best to follow my advice to prevent the same problem that occured can also count on me up to a certain point.

This practice does not involve recommending linux, albeit I did recently install ubuntu on a business' pc -after having them install OOo and Firefox a couple of months ago first- after they managed to kill Windows (or Windows decided to commit suicide, didn't even bother to check what happened) again for the 4th time in a year.
I simply recovered files with a live cd, double checked the made backups integrity, told them to take my place, and made them install Ubuntu themselves. Afterwards I guided them through adding some exta functionality (nvidia, codecs, flash, java, appinstall usage). This took him a grand total of 1 hour max. His spouse's laptop otoh, who needs to run windows-only accounting software, took me 5 hours to get working properly, due to a lack of decent drivers, a decent recovery cd, and limited internet access.

I am sick and tired of lazy people's persistent ignorance. Most common practice of other occasional help providing people is just format, meanwhile not even trying to preserve data, and put up a pirated Windows copy, asking money for provided services. As such, anyone who doesn't follow my advice repeatedly, or does not pay me to compensate for their idiocy, or thinks I'm incapable because I refuse to pirate Windows or Office for them, isn't even worth helping from my pov.

YMMV

matchstich
May 23rd, 2007, 03:14 AM
i have a few friends , who like me, got a late start in puters.
i didn't own one till a couple of years ago.
started out with xp pro. learned a bit about it . crashed it a few times.
got infected to beat heck a few times.
was able to correct the problems after harassing a few folks and going to forums.

but, the last set of problems that i couldn't fix killed xp on this machine.
i have xp home on another machine. use that only to scan. as scanning quit working on this machine after that update. i'm hoping that another update will fix that problem.

asked a few folks what other os i could install
and was told about ubuntu. and mac.
went with dapper.

but, my friends still call and i go do what i can.
i am going to spend friday cleaning a xp machine and download some software and show them how to use it.

wish i had a friend close by to help me with this set up.
i joined a couple of linux groups in my area , but, it seems all they want to do is
go to bars and get drunk. and i don't do bars.

FuturePilot
May 23rd, 2007, 03:47 AM
I'm more than happy to help people out with their computer problems even if it is with Windows. I'm just nice. But I feel that lately I've been losing my Windows knowledge because I've rarely been using it.:lolflag:

tanelt
May 23rd, 2007, 03:51 AM
"Yes, for some other reason."


Yes. Because I mostly use Windows myself, and have I always used Windows.... more than 12 years by now.

On WinXP I currently have no anti-virus and no anti-spyware installed, because I practically know the system from inside out. I know exactly which programs to trust and how to configure everything. I haven't seen a BSOD in the past 4 years on any of my computers running WinXP and they are all running 24/7 for months without crashing or needing a reboot. I've tried to switch to Linux countless number of times, but failed every single time, mainly because I can't get the resolution and the refreshrate working properly. And also because I'm also a hardcore gamer, I need Windows in order to run the latest games.

In the past I've recommended Ubuntu for a few friends who haven't used computers very much and therefore have problems with spyware, viruses, etc. But when they came to me with questions like "How do I use my webcam with Ubuntu?" or How do I play Wolfenstein in Ubuntu? (both of the activities I myself have never done in Linux), I felt like a complete n00b, because I didn't know the answer, and some guides I quickly googled up didn't work for them. Both of them switched back to Windows and I regularly visit them to do a clean install of WinXP for them, when they've somehow managed to get it full of spyware yet again. However since they've been using Firefox, NOD32 and Spybot, this problem is slowly dissapearing.

eilu
May 23rd, 2007, 04:05 AM
"Other"

It depends on the person. I'm known as the uber-geek in college, and telling your 6-unit course professor you won't help is... not a very good idea. :lol:

Seriously, I help people who are worth helping. Poeple who actually listen. I know one guy who gets top-of-the-line PC's and notebooks (rich kid), downloads a hell lot of warez into them (he's a script-kiddie wanna-be) and insists on installing 2 anti-virus programs... in his case I just sit back and watch the fireworks.

I have one aunt who insists she "knows everything" about computers. She calls me once in a while to say "Windows XP has this error message on my screen!!!" I avoid her as well. I told her to switch to Linux but she said "why would I get a free system? I can affort Vista!" (yeah, I'm still scratching my head about that one)

But most people who are polite and ask and want to learn I help. One of them is now going to install Ubuntu.

Hex_Mandos
May 23rd, 2007, 04:16 AM
It depends on the person. First off, I only support Windows versions which haven't reached end of life. People with Windows 98 problems should upgrade to a supported version or switch to Linux. On second place, it depends on the attitude of the recepient. People who want to learn how to solve their problems will receive better treatment. Finally, if I have to administer a system for someone, it's going to be Linux. Case in point: my grandmother. I seriously don't want to defragment her drive, scan for malware, etc. Too much work to be done for free, even for such a close relative.

What I find interesting is that I'm not sure whether I could help people better in Windows or Linux. I've only been using Ubuntu since december, and I've learnt far more than I ever knew about Windows.

irish_flu
May 23rd, 2007, 04:40 AM
I try to help people in whatever way I can, with any OS. I supported Windows and Mac OS stations for many, many years (I only have to deal with servers now) and will do whatever I can to help folks out of a jam.

Awhile back, I had a buddy (who hadn't used a computer since about 1998) who asked if I had an old PC to give him. I gave him an old box with Ubuntu on it. My buddy is a total Redneck.

First thing, his ISP told him that "cable modems only work with Windows XP and OS X". I told him to tell them that "oops, he forgot, he did have Windows XP". Fortunately, when the installer came out he was more than happy to help my buddy use it in Linux. The installer didn't know how to find where to set the machine to DHCP and such in gnome, so he called me and was happy to be walked through it.

Next thing, I was out of town and my buddy had problems with his bandwidth going up and down. A "guy at work who knows everything about computers" came out and pronounced that "Linux can't handle broadband" (?!?). Turned out it was a problem at his ISP, but my buddy was convinced by that guy that a pirated copy of Windows 98 would be way better than Linux for checking email, using IM, copying CDs for use in his car, and surfing porn.

This is the only time I've told somebody "I can't help with that machine if it has Win98 on it". The box is flat-out too old to run XP worth a damn, and I'm not gonna support an EOL product known to be a haven for malware of all sorts. I explained that to my buddy, and he groked it.

Now, he loves his Ubuntu machine and he loves telling the "I know all about computers" guys at work that he's a Linux user. They've since installed computers where he works, and he gets a kick out of telling their support guys "this isn't easy like in Ubuntu".

Sure, he still insists on pronouncing it "Linus", he still "starts up gee-nom-ee" (I dunno why he won't say "gnome", and he still can't figure out why his hotmail account and his yahoo account won't show him the same messages (because "they're both his email accoutns, why can't he get all his email there?"), but we're getting there..... :p

gamerchick02
June 17th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Yes, I do. I help with any issue that people have, but I try to steer them toward open source alternatives (even on Windows) like Firefox, Flock, Pidgin, OpenOffice.org, AbiWord, etc. I also suggest free options for firewalls and anti-virus software (Comodo, Zonealarm, Edwido, etc).

I've gotten a couple of my friends to "convert" to Ubuntu with old laptops. They were really impressed with Ubuntu and how it worked. I just hope they keep it around and keep using it!

Amy

CaveRat
June 18th, 2007, 01:06 AM
Yes definitely. Do I charge them for my services? Yes some times I do. Mostly that depends on their financial state. Most times I will leave it up to them to decide what it's worth to them.
There are just too many peeps out there who own computers and don't know squat about them. All they know is push the power button, wait for it to boot up, click on this or that icon to do what they want to do. So many times people have told me about a problem that I know is hardware related, but can't tell me a thing about their system. My boss lady calls the tower a CPU. No, that is the tower. The CPU is mounted to the Motherboard inside the tower. When I build a computer for someone, I explain to them that is what I provide. I expect them to learn how to use it so they can eventually fix minor problems themselves. Some listen, most don't. Those who refuse to learn what it's all about pay me for the inconvenience of their stubbornness. Those who are willing to learn can pay me if they feel it's worth it to them. And those who want me to install Ubuntu and make an effort to learn it get my help for free. If they want hardware compatible with Linux, that's all they pay for.

Footissimo
June 18th, 2007, 02:48 AM
Family and close friends I will help with Windows problems, though I'll get annoyed if mistakes (such as repeatedly downloading a piece of malware) keep happening. I will occasionally help a not-so-close friend with a Windows problem, but if it's going to take a while, then I will insist that the favour is returned to some degree or another (i.e. last person I did bought girlfriend's son a present).

I will mention linux as an alternative to the more ready-to-learn, though tbh, I wouldn't really want the responsibility!

HermanAB
June 18th, 2007, 03:44 AM
I help anybody with computer problems and I have managed to switch a few to Linux or MacIntosh. When I encounter something particularly nasty, I write a how-to guide and publish it on my web site at http://aeronetworks.ca Most guides are on Linux, but there are a few on Windows and also Linux/Windows interoperability for example Active Directory and Samba.

Cheers,

Herman

Tundro Walker
June 18th, 2007, 09:10 AM
Heh, I think when I joined these forums, I was helping more folks with Windows problems them Ubuntu / Linux problems. I think the folks here are just helpful in general, regardless of what issue you have, because that's what drew them to Ubuntu: helping each other regardless...Humanity to others.

runningwithscissors
June 18th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Can't.

Don't know much about Windows.

Scotty Bones
June 23rd, 2007, 06:21 PM
Oh yeah, I get the pleasure of supporting windows all day long :( ! Then I get to come home to: "Oh, you work for sony tech support. Hay I keep getting this Win32 Generic Host Process Error thing everytime I start my computer, can you fix it?"!!! And of course I do, usually free of charge, especially if its just a quick fix but it also depends on the person and time spent resolving the issue. Of course the best payment is always "Oh my god, it works now! (insert OEM here) told me I had no choice but to reformat my computer. Thank you so very much, your awsome!" ...Ahh and I get to leave with a grin :)
This is also why I use Ubuntu at home, It's nice to come home to something different and I get to learn something new myself. Plus when other people see my XP desktop they want me to do all that stuff to theirs as well. Thats the only real pain, sense when it comes to my own personal use I tend to completely disreguard the EULA. I like to hardcode my customizations into the shell and other system files when ever possible. saves time on the reinstall and cuts down on the 3-rd party apps. ...shhh

Spike-X
June 24th, 2007, 05:40 AM
I am sick and tired of lazy people's persistent ignorance.

Mate, tell me about it. I used to help out this one woman who simply DID NOT WANT to learn anything. Her computer ended up in such a state that only a full reinstall was going to fix it. Of course, she couldn't find her OEM restore discs (the ones I had taken great pains to tell her NOT TO LOSE). Of course, she had twenty years' worth of Christmas and birthday cards at her fingertips. I just had to give up and walk away.

I have another friend (daughter of the woman above, actually - must be genetic) who always need something or other fixed. I built the computer for her, so I kinda feel obligated. I'm at the point where I feel like telling her to TURN THE BLOODY TV OFF AND LISTEN TO WHAT I TELL HER, or I'm not going to help her out any more either.

Feba
June 24th, 2007, 06:00 AM
It depends.

For example, if it's something that would be a huge pain in the *** (removing malware reg editing, safe mode, etc), I tell them I'm not going to go through that just because they decided to welcome malware in with open arms.

If it's something like a setting mistake or something, I'll help if I can, since it's usually a quick Edit->Preferences (wait, it's "Tools" in windows, isn't it?) and a checkbox.

If it's a case of PEBKAC, I try to help up until it becomes obvious that they don't care about what caused it and just want a solution.

I always suggest people use FOSS even on linux, or at least freeware, when they have a software problem. I refuse to help people with IE issues.

That said, I did check "I refuse to help, etc.etc", although I will help under a few situations, 90% of problems with XP are because the OS itself is ****, and the user doesn't give a damn. It's not about linux though, I'd help with OSX or BSD or anything else if I knew about them. It's just that Windows is more trouble than it's worth.

Iandefor
June 24th, 2007, 06:24 AM
It depends on who's asking me for help.

If it's a good friend or member of the family, I won't charge.

If it's just some random acquaintance, I'll diagnose and fix their Windows boxes for a flat fee ($20). It's enough of a pain to work with Windows that I don't want to spend my time on it for just anybody with an expired antivirus license or who doesn't want to run spybot on their own time without compensation of some kind.

goumples
June 24th, 2007, 06:56 AM
With only a few exceptions, my entire family and my friends, and my neighbors use Windows.. they pay me to fix their computers (hardware or software). So I make it a point to stay current with all the OS's, and their ins and outs and such. I just set up a wireless network for my cousin today for his Vista machines (fun fun)

xyz
June 24th, 2007, 01:15 PM
I'll help anyone -regardless pf OS- if I'm capable of doing it.

king0lag
June 24th, 2007, 01:52 PM
I was a windows user only since 1995. I experimented with older (OS7 etc) macs until 2002 I got my hands on a G4 at work and realized there was more to computing. Now at home I run windows/*nix servers and use Ubuntu as my primary laptop solution.

But I am please to help anyone still stuck in the learning phase even if they're not ready for the step-up. As far as payment goes, I only take it from non-friends and non-family because I simply can't take money from them as it always ends in trauma. Same with my home business.

Two weeks ago my mother finally decided to "learn what computer was all about" (sic) and I introduced her to Ubuntu as her first computer experience :)

dsauxier
September 1st, 2007, 08:06 AM
Microsoft thrives on a grass-roots system of computer techies that help bail out our friends/family/neighbors whenever their Microsoft OS trashes their PC and/or data. If you think about it, it's really an (accidental) open-source model.

What would happen if all of us tech's just stopped helping these people?

How many iterations of "crash ; lose all data ; reinstall " would non-tech's tolerate before thinking about a better alternative?

I began using the following e-mail signature when Vista was released

====================

Don't want to go to Vista??? Try Ubuntu Linux : http://www.ubuntu.com
Or, visit Dell's website to get a new computer preloaded with Ubuntu

NOTE: The time has come to make a stand.
I will not provide ANY free technical support for any problems on a Windows Vista computer.
I will, however, provide extensive support and assistance for Linux (especially Ubuntu).

The Linux desktop is here, and it's ready for primetime.
===================

Even though I don't see my dad going to Vista, I confess that I did call him up and let him know that he's exempt from this rule (and mom too if she ever decides to touch a computer) ... some things actually are more important than FOSS

AriciU
September 1st, 2007, 09:36 AM
Heh. Who do you think would be in more trouble?

Windows users with no technical support or Linux users with no support?

Lster
September 1st, 2007, 09:42 AM
Linux users... With technical support, however, I think it's the other way round!

wolfen69
September 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM
since i fix windows pc's for a living, the only people i will help for free are friends and family. and ubuntu users.

Bachstelze
September 1st, 2007, 09:04 PM
And make FOSS users' reputation of elitism and arrogance even bigger. Great idea ! I'm liking the Linux attitude less and less, these days...

Tiekyl
September 2nd, 2007, 03:22 AM
This seems like a decent way to kinda nudge people into using Ubuntu for thier OS.

I say nudge beacuse it doesn't seem like a good idea to act elitest, like Hymn was saying. I just spend 2 or 3 hours cleaning up a friends windows laptop, and I kinda explained as she was watching why this was happening and why this was happening. Why it happens beacuse of problems in windows...saying I dont want to help is just one step beyond that.

ry4n
September 2nd, 2007, 03:34 AM
And make FOSS users' reputation of elitism and arrogance even bigger. Great idea ! I'm liking the Linux attitude less and less, these days...

I have to agree.... we must help people with their problem and maybe slip in the conversation about how much we like Linux but not to be rude and refuse help. That seems against the community way.

Tiekyl
September 2nd, 2007, 04:37 AM
Is it possible to refuse to help and not be rude?

aysiu
September 2nd, 2007, 04:51 AM
I'm glad to know most people here don't agree with you.

More details here:
Do you help people with their Windows problems? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=450454)

PurposeOfReason
September 2nd, 2007, 04:54 AM
They can you OSX, Windows, Linux, I'll help them to the best of my knowledge for it is now what operating system you use, but how you use it and if you're productive with it, that matters.

Lucifiel
September 2nd, 2007, 04:55 AM
No way... Linux still has many areas it needs to improve on, in order to fit certain users' needs.

MSGone
September 2nd, 2007, 05:15 AM
It appears that Microsoft is driving tons of their users off without any help from anyone. All they need to do is continue their current practices of spying, dictating, and high prices.

visions97
September 2nd, 2007, 10:48 AM
Sorry, but I refuse to not help people who are close to me and ask for it. I try to teach them things that will be useful for them no matter what OS they are using, simple things such as not installing software from sources they don't trust and things like that. Oh, and Canonical does not pay me either. Following this logic, why should I be their free tech support?

Freddy
September 2nd, 2007, 11:04 AM
If I know the answer or can find where the problems lies, I always help but now with Vista I just don't know, I have never used Vista so I cant say for sure that I'm able to help my friends with a Vista related problem.

I will not learn Vista just so I can help friends in need, I'm not that kind ;).

moffatt666
September 2nd, 2007, 02:49 PM
I will gladly help most people - unless it's vista. I've never used vista at all so I wold be more of a hinderence than a help.

darksong
September 2nd, 2007, 02:51 PM
Microsoft thrives on a grass-roots system of computer techies that help bail out our friends/family/neighbors whenever their Microsoft OS trashes their PC and/or data. If you think about it, it's really an (accidental) open-source model.

What would happen if all of us tech's just stopped helping these people?

How many iterations of "crash ; lose all data ; reinstall " would non-tech's tolerate before thinking about a better alternative?

I began using the following e-mail signature when Vista was released

====================

Don't want to go to Vista??? Try Ubuntu Linux : http://www.ubuntu.com
Or, visit Dell's website to get a new computer preloaded with Ubuntu

NOTE: The time has come to make a stand.
I will not provide ANY free technical support for any problems on a Windows Vista computer.
I will, however, provide extensive support and assistance for Linux (especially Ubuntu).

The Linux desktop is here, and it's ready for primetime.
===================

Even though I don't see my dad going to Vista, I confess that I did call him up and let him know that he's exempt from this rule (and mom too if she ever decides to touch a computer) ... some things actually are more important than FOSS

If you sent me and email with that on the end i would laugh so hard, honestly - it would be better to send out programmes with adware in it that pops up use ubuntu.

Frak
September 2nd, 2007, 02:57 PM
I don't think its possible for me to stop helping people for whatever reason.

Ever heard of "Southern Hospitality" ;)

Frak
September 2nd, 2007, 03:03 PM
Its the part of me that matches what I live, but I suffer from "Southern Hospitality" ;)
It forces me to help everybody I can, no matter what, but it doesn't mean I can't mention Ubuntu.

goumples
September 2nd, 2007, 03:44 PM
sorry didn't know I'd already posted on this 1 lol.

Wiebelhaus
September 2nd, 2007, 04:00 PM
It's what I'm paid to do so I have no choice , I have on the other hand thrown many a ubuntu discs / installations peoples way although the owner of the shop I'm currently working in will not allow me to put up a display in the front counter area , because he having experimented with ubuntu feels that it could be bad for business , windows issues & viruses are his bread and butter , mine to I suppose.

For instance one old biker cat , foaming at the mouth hated his new pc with vista , he honestly said he only wants to be able to email , surf porn , pictures , media , play Zuma and other lame type games, print & simple network sharing , He's a total noob and knows nothing about computers , I installed and fully configured Ubuntu on his Dual core amd with 2 gigs of ram and the system is blazing ef'in fast , the only time we've heard from him in the last 3 months was to pop in and tell us how much he absolutely LOVES Ubuntu.

If the customer doesn't have problems they won't give you any money.....

Catch 22

Arwen
September 2nd, 2007, 04:02 PM
Usually if I have free time I don't mind help someone out,although I don't have much experience I can do a search for a problem of XP or linux or even hardware stuff(no,blocking the fans with a pen's cap to check which is the one that makes too much noise isn't a recommended technique but it works :-P)

aysiu
September 2nd, 2007, 04:19 PM
I've merged the two threads. The content of the "Say 'No'" thread was too similar.

RandomJoe
September 2nd, 2007, 04:48 PM
I'll help people with Windows problems less and less. It mostly depends on the person, good friends I'll be more tolerant toward. But I'm *so* sick and tired of fixing the same stupid problem over and over again. It amazes me that my (work) Windows machine that gets used on all kinds of networks for all kinds of tasks never has trouble but people who do nothing but sit in the office and (so they say!) "didn't do anything, I don't know what happened!" can hose up some of the most esoteric things.

And the neanderthal at my office who prefaces every request for computer help with "so what's wrong with your server now?" (That being a Linux server - he wanted to put in an unlicensed Win2K3 Server and I vetoed it.) Of course every issue has been with HIS machine - he's always got some shady stuff running on it, no surprise there... Yeah, i'm always so eager to see him coming...

I don't evangelize though. If they ask what I'm running, I'll tell them but I did manage to get my parents to run Ubuntu for a short while and the problems I had there made me realize it isn't necessarily the OS - it is often the user, and they'll have trouble with whatever you give them!

Depressed Man
September 2nd, 2007, 07:02 PM
It depends on the person. I try to help most people, but unless your a friend or family member then your not likely to get help from me more then once.

skattyadz
September 2nd, 2007, 09:11 PM
Its my job.

Windows drives me mad sometimes.

Kingsley
September 2nd, 2007, 09:34 PM
Yes. I installed Vista, Office 2007, and Avast antivirus for a friend 2 days ago :neutral:. But on the bright side, I also put Ubuntu. It's a shame that his crappy ATI card won't work with Compiz.

Dimitriid
September 2nd, 2007, 10:36 PM
Yes, because they pay me to, but honestly Im not that helpful with windows. If something is not working, I just either prove hardware functionality ( which is basically just msconfig and remove ALL non ms services and start up programs ) and tell you to call Microsoft or format your hard drive, or if I can I format your hard drive and if it persists then I send it in for physical repair.

Only with a very small number of issues like Wireless connectivity I actually do have to mess around on windows settings before I send it in to oder a replacement wireless NIC.

AndyCooll
September 2nd, 2007, 10:47 PM
My view falls into a couple of sections, so I voted "yes - other". I get paid to help folk with Windows problems. However I'm willing to help people with Windows issues anyway where possible. I often use such scenarios to tell people about Linux too.

:cool:

pjkoczan
September 5th, 2007, 06:33 PM
I voted other. I'll help people if they have small issues, but not if the system needs a complete reinstall or something similar.

I also make it a point to emphasize that I will not pirate software in any way, shape, or form, so they're on their own in procuring a copy of Windows, Photoshop, etc.

Case in point, a friend's system was slow to the point of being unusable (spyware, adware, and viruses...the usual...and they had protection). I tried to help last weekend but even someone experienced like me couldn't solve the problem short of a format, disk zero, and reinstall, which would of course wipe out their data (they didn't have backups...fun).

That's what bugs me the most about Windows problems, the answer is, 90% of the time, reboot, 9% of the time is reinstall, and 1% of the time you *might* be able to fix things. That's why I really don't like to work on Windows problems, I prefer less frustration in my life.

As an aside, my friend is willing to try Linux, which I am more than willing able to set up and teach.

FyreBrand
September 5th, 2007, 06:54 PM
I'll help someone if I can. If it's a small fix then it's free. If it's a big problem in an organization or company then I'll charge.

I've need help with Linux, Windows, and lots of other software before. I'm sure it will be that way in the future. Being nice speaks a lot more than belligerence.

terry_gardener
September 5th, 2007, 07:33 PM
i help anyone with any problems that they might have, no matter what OS they have.

i either try to help them over the phone or just go round to there house if cant be sorted over the phone.

lately a couple of people have asked me about ubuntu mainly my opinion on it. no fault questions yet.

i find that if you help someone then they are more likely to help you if needed.

old_geekster
September 5th, 2007, 07:44 PM
I was too late to vote, but as many have said, I help anyone that I can when it comes to using computers. It doesn't matter to me that they use Windows. In fact, I still have XP Pro SP2 on two computers. I will continue to use XP until I can play games as well on Ubuntu. I am not willing to go through the gyrations necessary to get my games to run on Linux.

This is one of four tech forums that I frequent. I have to add that I espouse the virtues of Linux, Ubuntu in particular, every chance that I get.:)

greymongrey
September 5th, 2007, 07:50 PM
I always try to help everyone, regardless of what OS they use. I would feel silly telling my friends I could only fix their Linux problems. If they want to use Windows that's fine by me. It's their computer and their choice.

kvonb
September 8th, 2007, 10:18 AM
I'm not helping anyone but family and close friends with Microsoft Windows problems anymore, I have done so much free work over the years and I'm sick of the hypocricy.

People are so quick to demand a free copy of WIndows, they don't believe they should pay for it, so they steal it.

Whether you believe that is stealing or not, the point is that they choose to "steal" rather than explore any other alternative.

Software and especially an Operating System is a luxury in life, I mean it's not as if they would die if they didn't get one, unlike food/water/air etc'.

I have been in the computer supply/repair business for over 20 years (27 to be exact!), and I am fed up with people complaining about paying a measly sum like $60 to have me fix a problem, the general consensus seems to be that it is their right to have problems fixed for nothing.

Nowadays I tend to give people the phone number for Microsoft and tell them to call them instead.

I recently installed a copy of OpenOffice (the WIndows version) onto a local Sports club's laptop when they needed an Office app, they didn't have a legal copy of MS Office, so I gave them that instead. It does everything they want and at no cost.

I was really looking forward to the supposed new anti-piracy measures promised in Vista, it seems they got watered down, as most people I know are simply using a "stolen" copy!

Maybe Microsoft realised that piracy is actually helping them, even an unlicensed copy is helping to saturate the market with their O/S and helps drown out any competition.

Tom Mann
September 8th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I'll help anyone regardless of situation when their computer crashes. Regardless of OS. If I think someone has got advanced enough to use their PC (My cousin didn't have a clue at first but can now diagnose and fix his problems) I push Ubuntu their way. :KS

On a side note, I notice HymnForLife is Trolling again...

nowshining
September 8th, 2007, 10:53 AM
other: - i'll try to help anyone with a computer problem of an operating system I have used or if I heard of a fix by someone else i'll refer them to them if they know more about it than I..

lisati
September 8th, 2007, 10:57 AM
I only started using Windows about 7 years ago (before that, an older MS-DOS machine) and more recently Ubuntu. What can be mildly amusing and/or annoying is telling people who have been using Windows only for a lot longer than I have that I don't normally use Windows on my laptop - a look which says, "huh? What's Windows?"

brunovecchi
January 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Reading the article, I find that the author is making a general statement (Won't help people with Windows problems) but then provides a real-life example that doesn't quite fit that statement: won't provide pirated copies of propietary software. They are different things!
One thing is to deny help of any kind regarding a given propietary OS (which would have its fundings, since you are actually covering for the OS's technical support), but another thing is to deny getting into an illegal practice when helping that other person. I'm much more inclined to agree with the author in the latter.

-grubby
January 13th, 2008, 07:47 PM
All the time. Though I always switch IE with Firefox. What really gets them liking Firefox is adblock plus

sub2007
January 13th, 2008, 07:50 PM
I will always try to help someone regardless of what OS they use. Normally I have to research the problem online and usually I can't remember how to do things in Windows (like thinking "Hidden Files: CTRL+H" and forgetting the long round about way that you have to do in Windows to show your hidden files. Also when you're on Windows you can check what menus are labelled in Windows, you can't do that if you're running on Linux So it's harder to help Windows users but I always will anyway.

I always try to plug Linux but in a way I know they won't switch. I believe that the greatest thing about Linux is choice and that choice includes Windows. I would always like people to at least give it a try though...

HermanAB
January 13th, 2008, 08:21 PM
I demo is worth 10,000 words.

I will repair any kind of system, but I always show them my Linux laptop and explains that the main advantage of Linux is its robustness - it doesn't break the way Windows always does and I don't use Windows myself, since nobody pays me to repair my own systems...

Lately, I show them my Asus Eee PC, and that really gets them going! A few clients have gone out and bought one and from then on I just get rave reviews - people just love the little thing.

macogw
January 14th, 2008, 03:25 AM
I'll help anyone. I just load it up with FOSS (Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, OpenOffice, etc) while I'm at it.

roachk71
January 15th, 2008, 10:12 AM
I'll only help with windows problems if I'm paid to, now.

I'm tired of the glaring security vulnerabilities and bugs (not to mention spyware, adware, trojans, irremovable rootkits, etc.)

Oh, and in far too many cases, the tech fixing the system gets blamed whenever something goes wrong post-service, when in reality, it has to do with either the OS, PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard), or both.

Praadur
January 15th, 2008, 11:01 AM
I have years of Windows experience, so I know lots of the hidden little secrets that Microsoft would probably prefer kept hidden from the end-user. Will I use that knowledge to help people? The honest answer is: Sometimes.

If the question is something along the lines of 'Dude, Windows caught me using it illegally, could you help me make it... ahh... legal again?' or 'I blew up my hard-drive again, I think I got hacked... friend sent me a little game and... well, you know...' then I'll often refuse. I've helped with that kind of thing in the past, but it's really wore me down. Often my response will be 'Forget about your computer as it was and install Ubuntu.', or more recently 'Forget about your computer as it was and install LinuxMint.' (as that seems to be more friendly to the end-user, these days).

However, if the questions are anything along the lines of 'I don't know how to do X or Y, I did try before asking you but I can't figure it out, would you help me?', then yes I'll help, pretty much every time without a bad word, complaint, or asking anything in return for my time.

Doing the latter to me is akin to easing the suffering of another person until they realise with finality that it's time for a change. This is precisely the reason why I try not to market Linux at friends or family too, because I feel that Linux (and its myriad distros) are usually something one must gravitate towards, after the user has had enough of Windows and finally decides that they need a change.

After all, a well setup Linux distro (after dealing with any potential hardware difficulties, setting the person up with a user account, and telling them to keep to add/remove and synaptic for their programs) is both easier to use on a day to day basis and more stable. I'll repeat that too, that I feel that after the painful hardware setup and the first steps to make sure that everything in the OS is functioning properly, it really is an easier environment.

I'll also happily do the setting up for them aswell, so that they don't have to worry about that.

Moreover, the people I know who've switched to Linux also agree with this general consensus, but it's something that I think most people won't believe unless they experience it first hand, and for that they have to want to.

I don't see a reason to force a person to suffer, having to live with problems in day to day computer use is making them suffer and I won't buy into that, regardless of the reason. I have too much compassion in general to do so. But if they've done some terrible misdeed to their computer and left it in an inoperable state time and again without realising they need to change, well... they're on their own.

DouglasAWh
March 12th, 2008, 04:10 PM
people Always need help with Windows :)

I always inform anyone I help that they wouldn't have these problems if they used another OS.

anyway, when you sucessfully help someone they are more likely to believe you when you give them advice.

I didn't read through all nine pages, but I agree with this guy.

Additionally, Sometimes too it's simply easier to tell them to restart or to plug it in than to burn a CD and install and and tell them what all the words such as "Applications," "Places," and "System" are, since, of course, clicking on these things just to look around could potentially cause the computer to blow up or release national security secrets to radical Islamic terrorists or something. Too many people demand (don't need, demand) ridiculous amounts of hand holding.

ODF
March 12th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I didn't read through all nine pages, but I agree with this guy.

Additionally, Sometimes too it's simply easier to tell them to restart or to plug it in than to burn a CD and install and and tell them what all the words such as "Applications," "Places," and "System" are, since, of course, clicking on these things just to look around could potentially cause the computer to blow up or release national security secrets to radical Islamic terrorists or something. Too many people demand (don't need, demand) ridiculous amounts of hand holding.

Well, it's totally normal since not everyone is good at computers. I'm a construction worker and let me tell you ... I can't blame people when they ask help because computers may be an other universe for some people.

It's like if you ask me things about building houses, I will help because I can understand it's not your thing. (If it isn't hehe)

Sunflower1970
March 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I have to help customers all day long with minor Windows problems...things that aren't really a part of my job.... Have to say it's a challenge when they know nothing about their computer and I'm asking questions trying to get answers so I can help them find their files, or tell them how to use certain Windows programs...

Tonight my husband asked me to help him speed up his work's computer...His boss doesn't mind since the company consists of his boss and himself. I'm sure all it needs is a good defrag and a clean out of the tmp files to boost performance. It also has Norton on it....Trying to convice hubby to talk to boss to use alternate programs since Norton is probably the cause of most of the slowdowns...

OrangeCrate
March 12th, 2008, 04:47 PM
I continue to set up Windows systems for friends, neighbors and family if I'm asked. On forums, I'll help posters with security issues, but not on general day-to-day problems.

dgray_from_dc
March 12th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Yes, only because they're family.

I've worked tech-support before. It was the most annoying job I've ever had.

My family still calls me with problems from time-to-time but since I've all but walked away from Windows at this point, I have fewer and fewer answers for them.

zmjjmz
March 12th, 2008, 04:58 PM
I help wherever I can on whatever OS I can deal with (without wanting to delete the entire thing after three hours).

On the other hand, if the problem is application specific I tend to not bother if I don't like said application (in the case of IE7) and install alternatives (such as Opera, which my Mom is obsessed with now).

BlowflyBob
March 12th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Family tech support here also, can't really say no or I'd never hear the end of it.

Black Mage
March 12th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Lastly, I don't think people should be coerced into using Ubuntu. If you get people to use Ubuntu by saying, "Because I refuse to support Windows," people will likely either pay for Windows support (something like Geek Squad) and just think you're being unhelpful, or switch to Ubuntu begrudgingly and blame you and/or Ubuntu for any difficulty they encounter.?

On the flip side of that statement, what about people who are "coerced" to using Windows? I don't like using Windows at all, even at work. But I'm forced to at times because the job doesn't feel comfortable with other operating systems. So I begrudgingly use windows and blame it for the difficulty I encounter, especially Vista.

So whats the difference?

spamzilla
March 12th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Yes, else I'll get sacked ;)

derekr44
March 12th, 2008, 05:28 PM
i will help anyone with whatever if i know the answers.

I agree with post #2. I help just about everyone I come across to the best of my abilities. Besides, this also gives me an opportunity to share my success with Linux.

matherians2
March 12th, 2008, 06:50 PM
My job requires that I help customers with computer problems, and unfortunately all of them have Windows OS on it.

Jeff Rage
March 12th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I picked "Yes, because they pay me to."

But I will help friends and family if they need it.

Erik Trybom
March 12th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I help anyone if I can. I find, however, that my ability to help is steadily decreasing as I haven't used Windows regularly since Windows 2000. If someone came to me with a Vista-related problem I would be totally clueless.

jimcooncat
March 12th, 2008, 07:23 PM
I'd like to help, I really would. But I've already spent hours waiting to download, watch InstallShield start up so slowly I could walk around the house first, answer a bunch of questions that have nothing to do with the program, verify I didn't steal the software, register the software so I can receive more spam and flyers, and reboot after every installation. Then check that I didn't mess up other software or file extensions, that what I installed actually works, and no other automatic processes came along for the ride.

So please don't think I don't love you anymore, but I'm really getting too old for this. Love, jimcooncat.

aysiu
March 12th, 2008, 07:42 PM
On the flip side of that statement, what about people who are "coerced" to using Windows? I don't like using Windows at all, even at work. But I'm forced to at times because the job doesn't feel comfortable with other operating systems. So I begrudgingly use windows and blame it for the difficulty I encounter, especially Vista.

So whats the difference?
The difference is that by dropping support for Windows, you're supposedly trying to convert people to using Ubuntu; you are coercing that user into using Ubuntu in order to get your tech support.

Your employer isn't trying to coerce you into using Windows; your employer is forcing you to use Windows in order to keep your job.

And if you have a bad experience with Windows at work, and you already preferred Ubuntu, what did you lose? But if a family member or friend has only experience with Windows and has a bad experience with Ubuntu, then Ubuntu has been wholly tainted for her. She will likely never have nor want another experience with Ubuntu or Linux.

madjr
March 12th, 2008, 09:08 PM
i help with windows, but only to close friends and family (if they have to use it for some reason), anyone else i suggest ubuntu

Bruce M.
March 12th, 2008, 09:28 PM
I answered: Yes. I'll try my best to help anyone with computer problems.

But ComplexNumber took the words right out of my mouth:


i will help anyone with whatever if i know the answers.

No mention of OS, computer or whatever.
Help anyone with anything if I know the answer.


So I'm not alone. Sometimes it's good to know you're not alone.

Somehow I think you knew you weren't alone.


What I won't do, I will say, is support someone who does not follow my advice. If I set up a limited user account for a Windows user and tell that person not to log in as administrator for everyday use, and she goes ahead and does it... well, tough luck if she gets a virus.

To go a second time would NOT be helping them with a problem, but enabling them by removing them from the consequences of their own actions, when they knew what the results would be.

But that's just my opinion.
Bruce

hellion0
May 14th, 2008, 09:25 AM
If I have the knowledge, I'll help fix the problem, no matter the OS. I don't mind it, from a simple issue like installing a codec, to something major like cleaning up a horribly malware-infested Windows partition. It makes me feel kind of useful. Why waste the knowledge when you can use it instead?

Captain Oblivious
May 14th, 2008, 11:15 AM
At this point I only have helped Windows users, simply because I am too new to Ubuntu to give anyone advice on it (other than "get it. It's better than Windows". I believe that to deny help to anyone who you can help (without doing substantial damage to yourself) is immoral. But don't listen to me. I'm a noob.

grossaffe
May 14th, 2008, 11:27 AM
I'll help them, but at the same time, i'll curse microsoft several times under my breath just to make sure they get the idea that i don't like it and that it would be easier if they used something else. i'm always pushing open-source stuff when their microsoft stuff fails.

Znort_Ubern00b
May 14th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I do help people both in and out of work. Due to having worked in support role in previous job i now have unofficial title of "IT guy" in new job. Also help out of work for minimal fee. Still new to ubuntu myself and recommend to people i work with but think most would be too scared(or is that scarred by windows) to try any linux flavour.

angry_johnnie
May 14th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Nobody's ever refused to help me, so it would be pretty nasty to refuse to help others. :-) It's the right thing to do, and it feels good, too.

3rdalbum
May 14th, 2008, 11:41 AM
If it's something very simple, yes I tend to help. If it's anything I can't handle without doing research or fiddling around with Windows for a long time, then I simply won't bother (and explain that I know nothing about Windows, that I use Ubuntu where the problem doesn't occur in the first place).

Delever
May 14th, 2008, 03:14 PM
When someone brings laptop to me with vista and green progress bar starts loading a folder for, like 10 minutes, I just flash around Compiz on my PC as much as possible to cause as much frustration as possible :D

The problem is: I can't really offer ubuntu as alternative for Sony Vegas :/

However, there is something fundamentally WRONG with the system, when computer with CPU capable of 4 milion instructions per second loads folder longer than, hum... 10 minutes? I know thumbnails are hard, but... give me a break!

rickyjones
May 14th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Someone linked to this interesting essay on not helping Windows users (http://popey.com/Helping_Windows_Users).

I find the idea fascinating, but I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to do it.

First of all, I don't think I'd be able to support any Ubuntu problem that came up (particularly hardware compatibility issues). I can support myself. Sometimes I can support people on the forums (depending on what the problem is), but I couldn't, in good conscience, tell someone, "I won't fix your Windows problems, but I will fix your Ubuntu problems." If there was a Ubuntu problem that I couldn't fix... well, the likelihood one of my friends, co-workers, or relatives would know someone else who could fix them is pretty low... and they'd be s out of luck.

Secondly, I know a lot of people who use Windows-only software, and I wouldn't feel comfortable switching them over to Ubuntu.

Lastly, I don't think people should be coerced into using Ubuntu. If you get people to use Ubuntu by saying, "Because I refuse to support Windows," people will likely either pay for Windows support (something like Geek Squad) and just think you're being unhelpful, or switch to Ubuntu begrudgingly and blame you and/or Ubuntu for any difficulty they encounter.

I appreciate that the no-Windows-support policy works for the author of that essay, but I believe in taking it slow with people and having them take ownership so that it is not "Oh the thing he put me on" but more of "the Windows alternative he introduced me to."

What do others do? What have your experiences been with different approaches to supporting or not supporting Windows users?

I agree, except I don't find the idea fascinating, just somewhat interesting and very short sighted.

I'm a computer consultant. I will work on any system that I have knowledge of. I specialize in small business and Microsoft based solutions. Why? Because it just works. Do I recommend Linux? Yes. I have one customer with a Linux backup system.

-Richard

pbpersson
May 15th, 2008, 03:38 AM
I was a Windows guru in the Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 era - I was Microsoft certified on both those versions of Windows.

However, when Windows XP came out I was already pursuing other avenues in my career and really know very little about XP. I mean, I have used it but that is all. I have never even gone near restore points which I think is sort of sad.

I tell my friends that Windows is obsolete and the future is Linux. Linux is better, stronger, faster, and maturing at a rate that will leave Windows behind in its dust.

So....if I can help them I will but my Windows knowledge is decreasing and my Linux knowledge is greatly increasing over time. If someone brings me a dead machine, I"m putting Ubuntu on it. ;)

cardinals_fan
May 15th, 2008, 03:55 AM
I don't refuse to help people because I want to switch them to Linux/BSD, I refuse because I don't want the liability. I don't want to be the one who gets blamed because they did something dumb.

doorknob60
May 15th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Yes (the top one). Although I do often suggest Linux when I run AVG and pick up like a hundred viruses :P

uraldinho
May 15th, 2008, 04:42 AM
I find myself more and more reluctant to help people with computer problems. I have a few friends with businesses, and they are rather computer illiterate, although they give me the occasional discount they still make a small profit from me. So every time I help them, they should pay me too....

People have a nasty habit of asking friends and family for help with computer related problems without even considering paying any fees. Let's say for the sake of argument, I visit a friend that is a car mechanic, I would expect to pay whatever he says the fee is. But the same person expects his computer problems to be fixed free of charge. It doesn't add up to me.

If my trade/knowledge is in the IT (I have an engineering degree), why should I give it for free? For this reason alone, I do not offer any help. If asked, I may or may not help. If the person is someone close to me, I'd do it.

I have used linux as an excuse not to help people in the past. I simply say that I use linux, and I don't know about windows problems. I also tell people to pay for an anti-virus and scan the disk rather than ask me.

What I said might sound too materialistic, but I know the cost of the products I buy from my friends, and they make profit from me. My degree and knowledge has cost me years of my life, and plenty of £$£€€, so there is a large cost involved in the knowledge I have.

Linux on the other hand is different. It's about a community, and openness. I would get out of my way to find a solution to a linux related problem.

jimrz
May 15th, 2008, 05:18 AM
Yes but with the caveat that if it is bad enough that a fresh win install/setup is the best solution, I will only do this once and only when it fits in my schedule . In other words, if they have to have it 'right now' or if, after having done, they trash it again they are on their own. In either of these cases I will recommend a local "mom 'n pop" shop here that does good work at fair (not cheap, but fair) prices. The second restriction does not apply if they decide to take a shot with ubuntu.

unisol
May 15th, 2008, 05:53 PM
ill help windows out if i can. i still use windows somewhat. if making someones elses computing experience better then why not regardless of what ds they use.

ice60
May 15th, 2008, 06:55 PM
lol did you read the link from the first post? imagine working with someone like that lol, what a loser!!!

She jokingly said "so you could help me, you could get an XP CD for me, but you won't, is that it?". I replied with "Well, pretty much, yes, technically I could get you an XP CD, but I am not going to.". spoken like a true FSF guy, good job my friend :lolflag:

Der durch die Hölle geht
May 15th, 2008, 07:09 PM
helping the very human kind - not helping means being not worth to exist

Tristam Green
May 15th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I gotta help Windows users, it's part of my job!

Otherwise, I help them out of the goodness of my heart!

sw1995
May 15th, 2008, 07:20 PM
I have been using Linux for about a year and a half and also turned one of my roommates into an Ubuntu user by virtue of a dying Windows machine. My third roommate uses XP, however he absolutely cannot get his Wi-Fi working which is a constant bone of contention in our household (he seems to think it has something to do with the fact that we are using Linux...but I tell him if I can get two computers running Linux online through a crappy Linksys router, then surely to God I can get Windows XP!). I have been using Ubuntu for so long now with absolutely effortless Wi-Fi that I have a hard time recalibrating my thinking when tooling around in Windows. I give up!

Fenris_rising
May 15th, 2008, 07:37 PM
i help my family mainly, Vista on girlfriends lappy. the kids have XP on their PC. my daughter has XP my dad has XP all installed by me. not vista i hasten to add that was pre installed! ive only just gone to linux so please forgive my windows installs i didnt know any better. my dad needs help the most often. somehow he seems to trash XP one way or another. theres know way i can convert him to linux as id have to kill him after the first 5 phone calls. when the GF lappy screws up ill try linux on her but probably dual boot with XP as she has stuff for the OU on there. next time the kids screw theirs up ill try linux on them to.