Why ubuntu why??

[laxmanb]

To support a USB router in 6.06 and to remove support in 7.04 is just plain rude. Now I'm having to use Windows XP again. Why did you have to show me what a cool, clean, virus free OS you are the first place?

[Adamant1988]

To support a USB router in 6.06 and to remove support in 7.04 is just plain rude. Now I'm having to use Windows XP again. Why did you have to show me what a cool, clean, virus free OS you are the first place?

This is the nature of Linux development, sometimes support for things just.. stops. It was not Canonical's decision to drop support for your driver, just an unfortunate consequence of keeping up to date.

[starcraft.man]

To support a USB router in 6.06 and to remove support in 7.04 is just plain rude. Now I'm having to use Windows XP again. Why did you have to show me what a cool, clean, virus free OS you are the first place?

Strictly speaking, you don't "have" to use XP ever. If 6.06 and/or 6.10 support something that Feisty doesn't, then downgrade back to the version you need. I don't see how you were forced back to XP >.>. I am also at a loss, I didn't know that USB routers had support to begin with... its not a very common piece of hardware, almost all routers I've ever used or others near me have used are ethernet ones.

Not to mention, this should probably be in the beginner/networking subforum.

[Adamant1988]

Strictly speaking, you don't "have" to use XP ever. If 6.06 and/or 6.10 support something that Feisty doesn't, then downgrade back to the version you need. I don't see how you were forced back to XP >.>. I am also at a loss, I didn't know that USB routers had support to begin with... its not a very common piece of hardware, almost all routers I've ever used or others near me have used are ethernet ones.

Not to mention, this should probably be in the beginner/networking subforum.

downgrading to an ancient piece of software so that you can run a USB router is kind of stupid... IMO. I know I would rather run XP than Dapper at this point.

[sevcsik]

Well, XP is a bit mor ancient than Dapper :)

And you can install new software on Dapper too, just don't update the kernel.

[Adamant1988]

Well, XP is a bit mor ancient than Dapper :)

And you can install new software on Dapper too, just don't update the kernel.

No it's not. New software is still being written for XP.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Yeh but it is easy to backport.
Honestly Dapper is fine, Feisty is just too screwy for my tastes.
latest doesnt always mean greatest.

[starcraft.man]

downgrading to an ancient piece of software so that you can run a USB router is kind of stupid... IMO. I know I would rather run XP than Dapper at this point.

Are you now calling the X number (thousands/hundreds thousands/millions, I dunno how many) of happy dapper users out there stupid? I think you should be a bit more careful what you say... there are also plenty of people who downgraded from Feisty/Edgy back to dapper because it has caused problems for their hardware/software, I don't think their stupid either.

As for your apparent denial that XP is more ancient than dapper...

Last I checked XP came out in October of 2001 and Dapper, only last June 2006 (though I wasn't using Ubuntu by then), feel free to correct me if those dates are wrong but I don't think they are. So strictly speaking, by my definition of more ancient (being one has been around 5 years longer) XP is the more ancient one. I will of course agree there is still software being written for XP, because it has an enormous install base and Vista has yet to make a dent in it.

And I don't see why you would think there is no software for Dapper, there is plenty, it may not be the moment's latest and greatest but there is certainly a functional copy of everything needed in the repos. If someone needs a more recent copy, he can always compile.

Is there a reason you are so against Dapper in favor of XP? I don't really wish to start an argument, but you seem to be intent on putting down a perfectly good OS... in favor of an MS product I might add.

[PartisanEntity]

Many users had a similar issue with ndiswrapper not being included in the Feisty Fawn CD. Many 'laptop&wifi-only' users (such as myself up until I went out and bought an Intel replacement wifi card for my broadcom) need ndiswrapper in order to get their wifi cards working, the fact that it was left out of Feisty was a great disappointment since it only takes up a few kb.

[Sammi]

Seriously what specific features do you need that are only in Feisty and not in Edgy or Dapper?

Both Edgy and Dapper are very up to date and run mostly all new important software. They're just not bleeding edge.

[arvevans]

What are you going to do this fall when MS removes support for XP?
There are many Ubuntu users still using Dapper, and as a result much software being written on and for it. I just finished some application-specific coding for my Ubuntu 6.10 based data server.

Linux is obviously not for everybody. There may be some valid reason for a specific individual to continue using a specific MS-OS, or to return to it after trying something else. That is the beauty of having a choice of Operating Systems for your computer...you are free to choose what works best for you.

Depending on your own level of computer literacy, you may be able to port the source code for your USB router drivers to Feisty (possibly all that will be required is to compile it under 7.04 Ubuntu). That is how a lot of older hardware eventually gets supported in the newer Linux OS releases. But, admittedly, not everybody is a programmer. You do what you can and get on with life.

Arv
_._

[Adamant1988]

Are you now calling the X number (thousands/hundreds thousands/millions, I dunno how many) of happy dapper users out there stupid? I think you should be a bit more careful what you say... there are also plenty of people who downgraded from Feisty/Edgy back to dapper because it has caused problems for their hardware/software, I don't think their stupid either.

As for your apparent denial that XP is more ancient than dapper...

Last I checked XP came out in October of 2001 and Dapper, only last June 2006 (though I wasn't using Ubuntu by then), feel free to correct me if those dates are wrong but I don't think they are. So strictly speaking, by my definition of more ancient (being one has been around 5 years longer) XP is the more ancient one. I will of course agree there is still software being written for XP, because it has an enormous install base and Vista has yet to make a dent in it.

And I don't see why you would think there is no software for Dapper, there is plenty, it may not be the moment's latest and greatest but there is certainly a functional copy of everything needed in the repos. If someone needs a more recent copy, he can always compile.

Is there a reason you are so against Dapper in favor of XP? I don't really wish to start an argument, but you seem to be intent on putting down a perfectly good OS... in favor of an MS product I might add.

You're awfully quick to the defensive, let me clarify my points.

1) I did not call Dapper users stupid, I called downgrading to an old (ancient, and I'll clarify this) OS (thereby losing the repos for the newer version, and any new applications, etc.) stupid. I started with Dapper and I was a very happy dapper user. Also, otherwise smart people can do stupid things, it doesn't make them stupid.

2) Not all software ages the same. A release of Ubuntu is so 'old' it's almost useless for anything but servers after a year. Meanwhile Windows XP is still crisp and fresh, even though it's been around longer. In Linux a year is enough time to completely antiquate a distribution, in Windows it takes much longer.

3) The reason I would be in favor of switching to Windows rather than back to dapper is simply that I don't like an aged OS. Windows XP is JUST starting to show it's age with Vista now released, and even then you'll still see new software and updates for it for a while. I wrote a couple of blog entries on this:

Should your OS be Trivial? part 1 (http://opinunix.blogspot.com/2007/04/should-your-os-be-trivial-part-1_24.html)
Should your OS be trivial? Part 2 (http://opinunix.blogspot.com/2007/04/should-your-os-be-trivial-part-2.html)

[awakatanka]

Always thought the strong point of linux was it supported ancient hardware. Looks like distro's also following the demand road.

Feisty doesn't run good on my laptop i use edgy and mepis 6.0 on it. I rather use a little old version then use Windows. But thats a choose ;)

[Martje_001]

You're awfully quick to the defensive, let me clarify my points.

...I called downgrading to an old (ancient, and I'll clarify this) OS (thereby losing the repos for the newer version, and any new applications, etc.) stupid....
(In my eyes) You're completely wrong. If your computer can't run it, because it's to old or for some other reason, downgrading isn't stupid. You can install feisty software also on dapper/edgy, so I don't see any reasons why it should be stupid.

[Adamant1988]

(In my eyes) You're completely wrong. If your computer can't run it, because it's to old or for some other reason, downgrading isn't stupid. You can install feisty software also on dapper/edgy, so I don't see any reasons why it should be stupid.

Please, by all means, start installing Feisty software on those systems. Really.

[Sunflower1970]

To support a USB router in 6.06 and to remove support in 7.04 is just plain rude. Now I'm having to use Windows XP again. Why did you have to show me what a cool, clean, virus free OS you are the first place?

That sucks, for sure...have you maybe tried another distro to see if support is available for USB router works in it? (It's a better option than going back to XP)...Also, do you know the name of the driver? Can it be downloaded and put on a disc before Feisty is installed, then after Feisty is on the computer, can this driver be installed to get everything working?

Have you read any posts around where people had the same problem, but were able to fix it?

[SunnyRabbiera]

You're awfully quick to the defensive, let me clarify my points.

1) I did not call Dapper users stupid, I called downgrading to an old (ancient, and I'll clarify this) OS (thereby losing the repos for the newer version, and any new applications, etc.) stupid. I started with Dapper and I was a very happy dapper user. Also, otherwise smart people can do stupid things, it doesn't make them stupid.

Well I know I will be downgrading back to dapper or edgy because Feisty runs like crap on my machine.
I might give gutsy a run, but the current release is too unstable for me, I never had dapper or edgy segfault on me.

[laxmanb]

Yeah. 6.06 is OK, but really I'm just sad because it's possible susequent releases won't support the router as well.... :(

[Adamant1988]

Well I know I will be downgrading back to dapper or edgy because Feisty runs like crap on my machine.
I might give gutsy a run, but the current release is too unstable for me, I never had dapper or edgy segfault on me.

See, this is what I don't get. I would completely switch Operating Systems or distributions before I go back to out-dated software. There are tons of alternatives available (PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, Fedora, openSuSE, SAMLinux, Arch, Gentoo, etc.) instead of downgrading.

[PryGuy]

To support a USB router in 6.06 and to remove support in 7.04 is just plain rude. Now I'm having to use Windows XP again. Why did you have to show me what a cool, clean, virus free OS you are the first place?
Why can't you just buy an ethernet router? They are cheap now... Another way is to find the driver itself and install it under Feisty.

[misfitpierce]

downgrading to an ancient piece of software so that you can run a USB router is kind of stupid... IMO. I know I would rather run XP than Dapper at this point.

Are you kidding... it's not half as old as win-doze XP. I'd say use dapper! :)

[SunnyRabbiera]

See, this is what I don't get. I would completely switch Operating Systems or distributions before I go back to out-dated software. There are tons of alternatives available (PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, Fedora, openSuSE, SAMLinux, Arch, Gentoo, etc.) instead of downgrading.

Well PClinux is one I have my eyes on now.
But really I can easily get new software on dapper, there are ways to do it without breaking my system.
Latest doesnt mean greatest, by your reasoning we should all use Vista because its "the latest and greatest"
you talk like MS

[salsafyren]

Dapper only feels dated because it has inherited the Debian architecture.

I am thinking of switching to Gobolinux myself because of this.

If you have to upgrade an OS to be able to run a new program, then something is wrong. I think Gobolinux has solved this.

OP is right that a one year old Linux distro like Ubuntu is outdated. It is really hard to get new programs for it.

[Adamant1988]

Well PClinux is one I have my eyes on now.
But really I can easily get new software on dapper, there are ways to do it without breaking my system.
Latest doesnt mean greatest, by your reasoning we should all use Vista because its "the latest and greatest"
you talk like MS

Show me where I said that latest==greatest and I'll concede this point to you. I mentioned 'outdated' software which is what Dapper is- outdated. Vista will also be OK to use one the 1st service pack hits, I'm certain. Personally, I'd rather just use a Mac myself, in fact I'm buying one soon enough.

and I want an explanation of how I 'talk like MS'.

[qamelian]

What are you going to do this fall when MS removes support for XP?
What give you the idea that MS will stop supporting XP this fall? XP is scheduled to supported for several years yet.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Show me where I said that latest==greatest and I'll concede this point to you. I mentioned 'outdated' software which is what Dapper is- outdated. Vista will also be OK to use one the 1st service pack hits, I'm certain. Personally, I'd rather just use a Mac myself, in fact I'm buying one soon enough.

and I want an explanation of how I 'talk like MS'.

well i dont care if the software on Dapper is out out of date... at least its STABLE.
getting new software on dapper is not as hard as you make it sound, and in my opinion dapper trumps Feisty in stability...

Feistys done nothing but segfault and hang on me, never had that happen to me on dapper.

[Adamant1988]

well i dont care if the software on Dapper is out out of date... at least its STABLE.
getting new software on dapper is not as hard as you make it sound, and in my opinion dapper trumps Feisty in stability...

Feistys done nothing but segfault and hang on me, never had that happen to me on dapper.

You know what, you're absolutely right. Dapper absolutely, POSITIVELY DEMOLISHES most other current systems in stability... When you use it's repos. You're absolutely right, I have no qualms about agreeing with that sentiment. However, what do you think is going to happen to that stability when you start adding crap to it that ISN'T in those repos? When you start upgrading to new games, and software, and you find out that you have to update one library after another, and another, and another. Dapper is NOT so stable after you start doing stuff like that to it.

You know what I care about? Features. Improvements. Progress. Dapper can no longer supply ANY of those things to me. Dapper is frozen in time, and you will never see the software on it evolve any further than it has gone right now, unless you start doing things that are known to take away your precious stability.

[maniacmusician]

What give you the idea that MS will stop supporting XP this fall? XP is scheduled to supported for several years yet.
I believe I read that Microsoft will be ending support for XP by the end of this year in a last-ditch effor to get people to buy Vista.

[Adamant1988]

I believe I read that Microsoft will be ending support for XP by the end of this year in a last-ditch effor to get people to buy Vista.

Oh, I know what you're talking about, yes. Microsoft has basically said 'No more XP licenses for you, it's time to force OEMs to sell Vista', They'll still support the product of with service of course, I mean.. isn't windows ME still supported?

[maniacmusician]

Oh, I know what you're talking about, yes. Microsoft has basically said 'No more XP licenses for you, it's time to force OEMs to sell Vista', They'll still support the product of with service of course, I mean.. isn't windows ME still supported?
ah, that's right. That's what it was.

[andnobodyslept]

I can really see both sides to this debate. I love the most up to date software as the next one (openoffice 2.2 in feisty compared to 2.0.2 in edgy is a great example), at the same time nothing is better than the simplicity and the stability that you get with older systems. In the end it's finding what works for you, and that often means looking to try the next new thing, but if it doesn't work go back to the old, and if you don't agree with me, go back and play some of the great text based games, zork, nethack, adom (my favorite) or hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, they will keep me more entertained for than all the fancy graphics of the ps3 (without spending the money).

But that is just my two cents

[angkor]

I mentioned 'outdated' software which is what Dapper is- outdated.

Dapper is outdated for you. For what you want to do and expect from an OS.

For some people dapper is just fine and anything but outdated. Downgrading to dapper in stead of xp doesn't have to be stupid if you know that everything you want to do with your computer works fine with dapper. It also means not having to spend extra cash on a license for XP (can you still buy XP btw?).

[maniacmusician]

Dapper is outdated for you. For what you want to do and expect from an OS.

For some people dapper is just fine and anything but outdated. Downgrading to dapper in stead of xp doesn't have to be stupid if you know that everything you want to do with your computer works fine with dapper. It also means not having to spend extra cash on a license for XP (can you still buy XP btw?).
for a little while longer, yes. They'll phase it out by the end of this year.

[ArtificialSynapse]

I'm so sick of these posts following the " I can't this to work, so now I have to use Windows " routine. It's your problem, and I don't feel sorry for you. If you have an issue, I'm sure the community is willing to help, but quit trying to guilt trip everybody . . it's obnoxious.

[arvevans]

What give you the idea that MS will stop supporting XP this fall? XP is scheduled to supported for several years yet.


Programming staffers have already migrated to supporting Vista.
Present "fixes" being released are almost all for "Security Holes".
No new architectural changes are planned for XP.
No new MS-XP Licenses will be issued after January 2008.
[*} <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx>


What more do you need?

Arv
_._

[qamelian]

I believe I read that Microsoft will be ending support for XP by the end of this year in a last-ditch effor to get people to buy Vista.

Can't happen. It would put them in violation of too many support contracts. We have a typical MS support agreement at work and we are guaranteed critical updates until 2011. Microsoft will be removing all remaining copies of XP from store shelves by the end of the year, but they cannot legally stop supporting XP until all existing support contracts expire.

Even for standard consumers, MS has a set schedule for providing scheduled updates for a few more years.

[qamelian]

Programming staffers have already migrated to supporting Vista.
Present "fixes" being released are almost all for "Security Holes".
No new architectural changes are planned for XP.
No new MS-XP Licenses will be issued after January 2008.
[*} <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx>What more do you need?

Arv
_._

This is no different from what happens at MS after every new release of Windows. It still doesn't mean that they are completely dropping support for XP. See post 36. They are still required to honour any existing support agreements for XP at the very least.