Windows people's view of MS Linux FUD

[Sunnz]

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/63553-if-linux-so-bad-why-microsoft-so-interested.html

Pretty interesting read, they do point out a few things that we may not have thought of, like how some hardware vendor endorse the resource hogness of new versions of Windows, since people would need hardware upgrade => income for hardware vendors.

[Lucifiel]

I'm not too sure what I'm supposed to make of that thread.

Both the Linux fanboys and Windows fanboys make very funny statements. :p

[prizrak]

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/63553-if-linux-so-bad-why-microsoft-so-interested.html

Pretty interesting read, they do point out a few things that we may not have thought of, like how some hardware vendor endorse the resource hogness of new versions of Windows, since people would need hardware upgrade => income for hardware vendors.

It is there are some pretty level headed people over on that board (which surprised me). You are not exactly correct about "us" (well in this case me) not thinking about OEM's loving resource hogginess. I've pointed it out as one of the barriers to OEM Linux installs a while ago, well quite a few people have actually.

Although I have changed my opinion on that since, the thing is that users who try to stay on the cutting edge (or at least close) of hardware will upgrade regardless of need for power. The others will run their systems for about the same amount of time before upgrading. When Auntie May decides to get a new system to replace her 5 year old 1Ghz Celeron with Intel built in GFX, she will still grab a cheap system whether it comes with Vista or not. It makes it somewhat easier to peddle the higher spec hardware if people want the Aero Glass interface.

[Adamant1988]

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/63553-if-linux-so-bad-why-microsoft-so-interested.html

Pretty interesting read, they do point out a few things that we may not have thought of, like how some hardware vendor endorse the resource hogness of new versions of Windows, since people would need hardware upgrade => income for hardware vendors.

Oh definitely, I've always said this: Vista was Microsoft's way of pushing us to new hardware. Now instead of just gamers, everyone needs a graphics card, etc.

[roderikk]

Wow, I must say that I have never been more glad with the Ubuntu community! These people are so.... uncivilised... :-) Check out this link from someone his signature: http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

[PartisanEntity]

A childish and rude bunch fighting OS wars, I never cared for that.

I found the youtube video that was posted to be quite funny though:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM

[use a name]

I'm sure there are some good oss resource hogs and they are just there because of the fast & new hardware they need. Fast hardware opens possibilities for lots of new software (think gaming, virtual reality, photo/video editing, fancy desktops, the fun part of computing). Linux can give those apps just a bit more resources to run fast and smooth.

[Sunflower1970]

Read most of that thread. It's amusing how after a while, it turns into a flame war which seems to have nothing to do with what the thread was originally about.

[DoctorMO]

What I find sad is that there are some windows fanatics on there who react to 'Perhaps linux is ok for most people' with 'Hey you stupid linux fanboi get off me land before I shoots yer'

I don't think my arguments would be very welcome:

You shouldn't use Windows Vista, not because it's no good. but because it's immoral to support a company that is damaging the industry with corrupt business practices. A failure to not support the right and wrong in others just so you can get desk widgets and aero interface is not what I call very principled.

But hey some people have no principles.

[EdThaSlayer]

Quite interesting. Although it does happen too often. How smart can these crackers be?

[Zimmer]

Trying to reason with these particular types of Win user would be a bit like trying to convince a BMW or Merc owner to sell up and buy a Skoda Octavia because it is half the price... will still get him from A-B etc
Also, having invested a lot of their time (and money) in Win products there is a fear of the unknown and potential 'loss of face' in not knowing the ins and outs of a new setup.....

[starcraft.man]

ROFL, reading that was hilarious. FIRST they missed the whole point of the first link, which was if Linux is such a piece of crap, why is MS even bothering enforcing their patents, if its so bad it should die a slow crappy death from non-use/support. Furthermore, by going after us, they have thereby acknowledged that open-source represents a valid opponent for MS/Mac. They seemed to have missed that entire point.

Funny enough, they did descend rather fast into a fairly pointless flame war that wasn't even related to the first post. What was even more laughable is they kept mentioning WPA (Wireless encryption) as being as evil as DRM and WGA.... ??? Do they even know what they are talking about? :p

Was worth a good laugh though, will have to point a few friends to that thread later.

[jiminycricket]

Pretty interesting read, they do point out a few things that we may not have thought of, like how some hardware vendor endorse the resource hogness of new versions of Windows, since people would need hardware upgrade => income for hardware vendors.

There are moves to miniaturize hardware though, eg., the OLPC AMD Geode 433mhz device. Or Intel's dominance over AMD in the laptop arena.

[FuturePilot]

I guess I need to go hire an IT department since it's impossible to keep "all the pieces of Linux" together:-k

On another note, my desktop PC is only a little over a year old, and all of the hardware is detected and works great. Who said Linux is bad at hardware support?

[starcraft.man]

Against better judgement, I replied to the lot of them. It is curious that my post is subject to moderator approval, it seems even an MS forum must have draconian restrictions placed upon it. Here is what I replied to all of them however, I believe I covered everything as accurately as I could without being too redundant. Yes it did take me a while.


Hello there, I just felt compelled to respond to this thread. I am a member of the Ubuntu Forums, and subsequently its obvious to infer I am also an Ubuntu user (a linux distribution of course). The link to this was posted in our community cafe, and though we were a bit laughing at how far off the original post you had gotten I felt like I was obligated to respond to some of this.

First and foremost, let me make clear that I am no simple linux fan boy. I am in actuality a 15 year windows veteran, I started in the hay day of dos (version 4 something or was it 5 I forget...). I have used 95, 98, 2000, XP and even a cursory look at Vista. So I would say I have significant experience using the windows platform and that qualifies me to make significant comments here.

First off, don't you all realize how far off the original topic you have gotten? I mean let me put this to you this way... if Linux is such a "horrible" Operating System, why does MS even care that it infringes on its patents? Why is MS even acknowledging its existence both from its public announcement of its patent infringements and from its deal with Novell? If there really is no market for Linux, then its very simple, MS should just ignore us/linux into oblivion. It seems that all this public show really just promotes us, and gets people interested in understand and trying Linux, that seems a bit counterintuitive for MS to want.

On a similar note, if MS really doesn't want Linux to infringe on its patents, it should publicize the specific parts of the Linux Code it finds to be deplorable and they will be rewritten/worked around/stricken from the Linux project. That seems the easy solution to me. MS didn't do that however, instead they have gone public and assaulted open source in general. They have done this for a two fold reason, they firstly believe that they can gain money from striking deals with Novell (maybe they are even trying to buy Novell) and in the event they can't make deals with everyone, they want to undermine the reputation of Linux/OSS software in general through use of FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt). They want to use this disinformation to ensure users do not use a free software for simple tasks (it's a fact that gamers and coders are the minority, and a good large chunk of computer users only need simple tasks which Linux is apt to provide once set up).

Also on the same topic, those of you who hate/are angry that Linux violates X patents that MS holds, whatever number they really are. You should know, that firstly Windows has violated other peoples patents as well. They have unfortunately usually swept this under the covers by buying a license with their vast fortunes or litigating the company out of existence (or even recently, loosing their case and paying see mp3 case). Not to mention I might add, that there are many software out there in existence that violate patents... do you know why? Because software patents have been abused. In fact, its rather silly but the entire patent system has been abused to the point where it is in fact useless. Don't believe me, look at this case... here. The article details its problems, as well as the fact that a man was able to patent "a means of exercising a cat with a laser", that is absurd... There is a wiki article on it, here, if you don't believe the article. So that alone should be enough to throw away the patent argument against linux. The truth is I'm surprised that no one has patented the cursor... they should, they'd make lots of money.

Anyway, to sum it up, if linux does actually violate a patent, MS should point to it and linux will fix it and never worry about MS code again. Otherwise, they should keep their mouths quiet and take it to the courts.

Now, I have a few other points to address.

I saw a few mentions from some users, HK in particular, who seemed to think that we say "RTFM" or its equivalent rather than giving help. To this, I say you are very poorly misinformed or have simply had a bad experience. If you come to our forums you will be welcomed with open arms and we will gladly help you install and configure anything you need in your linux distribution. We do not tell you to "F*** off" or "Read the F****** Manual". We will however show you guides like Ubuntuguide.org or psychocats which offer excellent learning on how to use Linux (I learned from them and set up my computer with no prior linux experience in under 2 days). If a guide does not have what you need listed out or you have further questions on what we did point you to we will gladly explain further anything you need. You are welcome to review my or other members posts on the forums, I do not believe I have ever cursed or otherwise spoken ill to a new member who asked for help.

Now, next I'd like to address the issue of drivers. HK and others seem to continue to hold this against Ubuntu. This however, is a flawed argument, and there is a simple reason why that is. Windows has the ability to work out of the box like that because it is compiled and comes with almost every companies drivers and if a products drivers are not available generic ones (which I guess MS would have written) usually are. This however isn't Microsoft's doing, in fact almost all of those drivers are written by their respective companies. The drivers are then supplied to MS and put in the install. So, its really the companies you should be mad at individually for not supporting the open-source community.

There are in fact many companies that do support Linux, most notably is Nvidia which has released some drivers for us and other distros. These companies are often few and far between though sadly, so it is usually the case that drivers used are reverse-engineered from existing drivers by volunteers of our community. We are grateful for their contribution, they unfortunately are fewer then there are products out there, so the drivers are not always available. Not to mention it is painstaking to do the reverse engineering process and it must be vetted for bugs after. So the bottom line, if your HP printer doesn't work out of the box with linux, you should go and make a complaint to HP, not to Linux/Ubuntu/any other distro, we try our best.

I'm not trying to preach Ubuntu to anyone, in fact I don't think I've ever mentioned trying to convert you. Use whichever OS you like, it really doesn't bother me or any of the other Ubuntu members. I made this post just to defend Linux a bit better than was tried in the 8 prior pages (pardon me for saying so, but it seemed like nothing more than a misinformed flame war of insults and misinformation). I don't really want to provoke anyone, nor do I plan on posting again in these forums if anyone does flame me for this reply.

If you do wish to look into Ubuntu, go here. You can find plenty of information there. If you need free support, your all more than welcome to come to the forums, provided you do not flame anyone and are civil.

I hope my post was coherent and well worded, I don't really have time to read over it, I tried my best to edit as I went along. I only rather quickly scanned the pages, so if I missed any major points I am sorry.

Oh and a few final errata I saw. WPA is not a form of Vista's DRM/WGA it is in fact a very good means of encryption for wireless points, I recommend it over WEP as WEP has been cracked and I have seen people gain access to points using it in less than 2 minutes flat.

In conclusion, let me just post the meaning of Ubuntu, its a refreshing concept that everyone should know and believe in. Ubuntu(Definition quoted from Wikipedia):
The name of the distribution comes from the Zulu and Xhosa concept of ubuntu, and can be roughly defined as, "the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity." Especially here, after all that flaming, it seems it is sorrily lacking...

That is all I believe I have to say, if you choose to remain with Windows and Microsoft that is your choice and I wish you all the best with that. If you decide to give Ubuntu a try, feel free. We are about informed choice, so have a nice day and all the best goes to you. Oh and if you read all that, you must be patient, hope it helped a bit.

starcraft.man, member of Ubuntu Forums.


That was it :D

[Spike-X]

"...if MS really doesn't want Linux to infringe on its patents, it should publicize the specific parts of the Linux Code it finds to be deplorable and they will be rewritten/worked around/stricken from the Linux project."

MS seems to be taking the pre-menstrual approach to this: "If you don't know what you did wrong, I'm not telling you!"

[starcraft.man]

"...if MS really doesn't want Linux to infringe on its patents, it should publicize the specific parts of the Linux Code it finds to be deplorable and they will be rewritten/worked around/stricken from the Linux project."

MS seems to be taking the pre-menstrual approach to this: "If you don't know what you did wrong, I'm not telling you!"

*laughs hard and collapses backwards* Man, spike... I hope no women happen upon your post, like Lucifel for instance :p. I don't disagree however :).

[joe.turion64x2]

Read most of that thread. It's amusing how after a while, it turns into a flame war which seems to have nothing to do with what the thread was originally about.
Yes, it seems they are a bunch of idiots (except Doris and Nina).

[oogitsmelol]

"Have you visited the ubuntu newsgroups? Full of snarling snarkies whose
advice for those with a linux problem is to "go look it up." Yet another
reason not to go with linux."
Good thing I know differently.
"That's got to be an inside joke, since the LINUX documentation I have
seen reads as if it were written by APL dropouts who were born in a
solar system far, far away..."
I can say that the help documentation with Linux is much much better than any help you try to get in Win.
I don't suppose pointing those out will do much good here, as you all already know these facts. As of right now, Starcraft, nobody has replied to you. Perhaps you settled it... Anyways, good read. I managed to waste a good 30 minutes reading over all of that. Now if only I could remember what I had to do beforehand...

[starcraft.man]

"Have you visited the ubuntu newsgroups? Full of snarling snarkies whose
advice for those with a linux problem is to "go look it up." Yet another
reason not to go with linux."
Good thing I know differently.
"That's got to be an inside joke, since the LINUX documentation I have
seen reads as if it were written by APL dropouts who were born in a
solar system far, far away..."
I can say that the help documentation with Linux is much much better than any help you try to get in Win.
I don't suppose pointing those out will do much good here, as you all already know these facts. As of right now, Starcraft, nobody has replied to you. Perhaps you settled it... Anyways, good read. I managed to waste a good 30 minutes reading over all of that. Now if only I could remember what I had to do beforehand...

ROFL... maybe their just in shock at the giant post it was. Or MAYBE... I just BLEW THEIR MINDS *BOOM* since I didn't flame, did use facts and well supported arguments, was a 15 year windows user with insight and even was civil and told them that if they wanted to stay with Windows that was their choice and they should do it. Anyway, I wouldn't be bothered even if they did reply... I don't plan on signing in again on a vista site, I just felt like making a point and stemming out ignorance where I saw it. Ignorance is the one true evil in the world, and sadly everyone has it to some degree...

As for all that time, ya, ROFL, it took me a good deal of time more to just write my response let alone skim their pointless banter :D

[joe.turion64x2]

ROFL... maybe their just in shock at the giant post it was. Or MAYBE... I just BLEW THEIR MINDS *BOOM* since I didn't flame, did use facts and well supported arguments, was a 15 year windows user with insight and even was civil and told them that if they wanted to stay with Windows that was their choice and they should do it. Anyway, I wouldn't be bothered even if they did reply... I don't plan on signing in again on a vista site, I just felt like making a point and stemming out ignorance where I saw it. Ignorance is the one true evil in the world, and sadly everyone has it to some degree...

As for all that time, ya, ROFL, it took me a good deal of time more to just write my response let alone skim their pointless banter :D
So, was it you who shut them off? I mean, who answered those MS fan boys in that bloody forum. Good job!

Perhaps they won't appreciate or even understand your post but you did well in putting Linux's name in a good place. Besides those gals Doris and Nina needed a little help to stand those morons.

[tehkain]

We just put MS in check.

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/19/0055252

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691

Now all we need to do is hope for a the GPL3 to come and novel to use it. Then we only need to hand in one Voucher and BAM community coverage.

[thunderkyss]

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/63553-if-linux-so-bad-why-microsoft-so-interested.html

Pretty interesting read, they do point out a few things that we may not have thought of, like how some hardware vendor endorse the resource hogness of new versions of Windows, since people would need hardware upgrade => income for hardware vendors.


One thing I wondered, for quite some time now, is why did everybody give Microsoft such a hard time about the cryptic nature of Dos, and weren't at all happy with Windows for Workgroups, all the way to Windows ME, being a shell for MSDOS, when that's exactly what a whole world of people are extremely happy with in Linux.

I'm three, maybe four days into my Ubuntu/Kubuntu journey. and I'm starting to really like some of the things I'm seeing. Right now, I've got Dreamgirls playing full screen with two browsers open(one of which I'm typing this reply in right now, the other, I'm reading that Vista MB). I can't do that on my XP64 machine.

Earlier, I was setting up my wifes account, as I was listening to some Soulstice........ I screwed up on her password, couldn't remember what it was. I was able to switch to my account, change her password, then log back into her account(all on the same machine), and Soulstice never stopped playing. I was able to hear the player even though I was in another account. I don't know if that is the way it should work, but it was convenient.

Another thing. Microsoft gets slamed for their licensing practices....... Yet Apple does the exact same thing, with iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand...... just like Microsoft did back in the day, when Corel cried because Microsoft had an unfair advantage.

But nobody says anything about lining Steve Jobs pockets.

I'm looking for a real alternative to Windows, not because I need more power than XP/Vista... But because I don't trust Big Brother.

this extra power...

so far, it's a plus.