We need a new IM client

[Praill]

There was a post a couple days ago re: what works with windows but not ubuntu. It started a pretty heated discussion about whether or not 3d game support was important, so let me first say thats not what I plan to discuss here.

Although Windows gaming is probably the most popular deterant I notice from a user deciding to switch, there is another very important one: Instant Messaging.
I realize MS owns this field due to their bundled msn client and proprietary protocols. Projects such as aMSN and gaim have made nice advances figuring things out but can only provide limited functionality.

I would like to see the ubuntu community get on board with developing their own XMPP client so it could be fused with gtalk and jabber.
I think the key here is innovation. Theres this new windows IM client Ive become aware of, IMVU, that has a very innovative idea. They allow you to create an "avatar" that you can customize by winning or purchasing points with them. Its essentially a 3d chating client with the characters you create.
Im not neccessarily suggesting anything as involved or hardware dependent as this, but it is an idea that would spark user interest.
Developing in java might be a good idea too for platform compatibility.

Voice and video chat would also be a must since this is currently impossible in linux as far as im aware.

I would love to start the ball rolling on this and develop it in my own time but I doubt my programming skills are up to par.

I dunno.. just an idea, what do you all think?

PS. feel free to move this thread to the appropriate category if i have misplaced it.

[Bou]

Voice and video chat would also be a must since this is currently impossible in linux as far as im aware.

I'm pretty excited about Colligo (http://codeposts.blogspot.com/), which provides those. Hope it will replace Gaim when it's ready.

[ticopelp]

I don't object to the idea, but on a personal level, I like GAIM / Pidgin's stripped-down, simple functionality. I like having all my IM accounts centralized, easy to access, and most of all, out of my way. I realize that all the blinky bits are necessary for some users, but I moved away from all the bloated, feature-heavy IM clients because they started getting too complicated.

[onon_onon]

I agree with you, ticopelp, but Praill are right too, people wants a full featured IM, with video, voice and all that blinking stuff. Think this way, Ubuntu was a great distro since it's first release, but people were impressed only when beryl/compiz show up the eye candy features. People needs to be rewarded by changing, and beryl/compiz effects are the reward to change the OS.
I really want to see MSN out of my way, but all my friends use it. No one use any other IM. Why? I'm sad to say, MSN is better. I don't think so, but the huge usage of it simple destroy my arguments. So, the only way to make people get out of a proprietary IM is to show them a much better one. They like smiles? They like Video chat? All people needs must to be in the IM. They use other OS? Let's make it multi-OS, fully featured. Even a light version to ticopelp and onon_onon.
Someone may say "how can be an IM client so important? Linux is great!". People are great, their friends online to chat, hear and/or see is important. I couldn't bring many Windows users to Ubuntu just because MS IM Client is way better.

[gnomeuser]

What we should be looking at is the Telepathy framework, that allows everything you asked for. However there's not yet a fully functional client available, the most promising has to be Empathy (http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Empathy). I'm hoping we can replace Pidgin with Empathy during the Gutsy cycle for long term gain.

Regardless, there's no program that does everything you want right now but work is being done - the technology exists and it fairly well tested.

You can check out the work Collabora is doing in the area, it's dead sexy.

[Praill]

I couldn't bring many Windows users to Ubuntu just because MS IM Client is way better.
Exactly. My gf, for example, uses her computer to:

check e-mail
instant message with friends
play around on facebook or myspace
browse stupid videos and online games
write papers for school

She could easily do all this in linux but why would she want to? Ive told her she wont have to worry about spyware/viruses with linux, but using something shes familiar with that has a pretty and more functional IM client (the majority of her time) is by far worth it to her.
I know that reason seems silly to alot of people, including me, but realistically theres more people like her than like us.

Anyways, I think its a huge priority that has been severely over-looked. Ubuntu could win the masses with "the next big" IM client.

[Mateo]

what's wrong with gaim? is it just the lack of voice support? i don't know anyone who uses that anyways so it's not important to me.

[igknighted]

what's wrong with gaim? is it just the lack of voice support? i don't know anyone who uses that anyways so it's not important to me.

Gaim is no more, it is now "Pidgin". And it doesn't really add anything special. It does text chatting well, but you cannot direct connect to send files, no voice/video chatting and other such features. In many ways it is like a free (but slightly less functional version of Trillian). I think a really nice client that could handle these would be a plus.

[Praill]

what's wrong with gaim? is it just the lack of voice support? i don't know anyone who uses that anyways so it's not important to me.

As the above user said.
No webcam, video chat, voice chat, custom emoticons, winks, games, profile pictures, and poor (if any) file sharing.

aMSN steps up in almost all those categories but video chat. However aMSN is still 'MSN' and is always months behind any new feature WLM adds.

Given WLM's increasingly bloated structure via advertisements and (what must be) just bad coding I think its time for a competitor to step up and make the next big IM client. It would have to offer at least the functionality msn already does though.. and more.

[onon_onon]

what's wrong with gaim? is it just the lack of voice support? i don't know anyone who uses that anyways so it's not important to me.
Gaim is a client to connect to a lot of protocols, many closed source. It will never be a full featured IM, IMHO. Gaim will be forever miles away from the proprietary clients, because it must use reverse engineering.

[starcraft.man]

aMSN steps up in almost all those categories but video chat. However aMSN is still 'MSN' and is always months behind any new feature WLM adds.

Given WLM's increasingly bloated structure via advertisements and (what must be) just bad coding I think its time for a competitor to step up and make the next big IM client. It would have to offer at least the functionality msn already does though.. and more.

Ok... I don't know what exactly the features are that WLM has that the newest 0.97 build of aMSN lacks (it almost fooled me for a second on boot up, I thought it was MSN :p) Only one I can think of is offline messages which IMO are kinda lame... I don't use em often and their annoying when you sign in.

I am however mildly annoyed, these threads seem to keep coming up... requesting/demanding a better equivalent of an existing Windows program. I really don't see how posting in the cafe does anything other than devolve into another inflammatory thread. If you believe strongly that there are lacking features in a product, there are solutions:

1) Go to the site/forum of an existing messanger and make a suggestion/petition for the function your missing.

2) Learn the coding language that is used by the developers of the client you want to better (python, or whatever language the devs use) and then sign up to their site and help them code/debug the program.

3) Become a beta tester for aforementioned site/application, you can then help assist in debugging the program and increasing the speed with which it is produced, thus you will enable them to get to new features faster once old versions are debugged.

4) Learn a language, find people of like mind and form your own developer group to create this "killer app" IM client and put the screws to Microsoft.

So those are good options, if you don't want to do any of those... don't post these topics in threads. All they attract is lots of attention, some frustration and nothing else... I highly doubt that devs for any IM client will be scrolling through this thread and all of a sudden go "OMG, this kid is right" and then go code it for you...

So please, lets not have any more of these threads.

PS, if you want to made video calls, go install skype, thats what its for... it does a MUCH better job than MSN live (i've used both). The point of an IM is really for instant messaging, not long extended calls, thats skypes niche.

EDIT: I'm not mad, but these seem to be almost daily, on a different program each time...

[maniacmusician]

Sure, it's a good idea. I wouldn't recommend developing in Java. Since it would be open source, it could be made to compile on any system with a few tweaks by someone that knows what they're doing. A good example is gaim/pidgin, which is available for windows and linux.

I agree that it should use jabber, that's the logical choice. Perhaps it would make some changes upon the basic jabber infrastructure. For instance, I know jabber confuses a lot of new users because of how anyone can set up a jabber server and how people are identified by [nick]@[jabberserver]. I like the way that google does it. Instead of being identified the way I illustrated in the previous sentence, the google client replaces that with the real first name of the person (so jsmith@gmail.com would be ID'd as John). In addition, I believe that Google also does something different on top of the basic jabber infrastructure, so we'd require their cooperation to truly integrate gtalk. Best case scenario would be them opening the specs for GTalk, if it's any different from the normal jabber.

We'd also actually need better hardware support. Most clients probably don't include this functionality because there's not enough supported hardware out there. That's not an excuse, of course, but it seems like it might be a reason, since Jabber can already do video/voice chat, file transfers, etc.

It would also probably be a good idea to start merging in support for other protocols if someone ever does this. Having a different client for each protocol can be a bit of a hassle. I'm sure that others have had this idea before, but the key is having the programming skill and drive to get this project off the ground. How many people here can claim they have that? Without something like that, it'll be an idea forever.

If it ever does formulate, I'd be glad to help out with the management aspect of it. I do have some experience dealing with open source projects, and organizing them in a way that makes them effective. This would be a really interesting project to manage since it has an almost 100% focus on communication.

So the first step would be finding developers that are interested in this, and that have free time to work on it (read: that isn't juggling 3 other projects). I think the backend for this app should really be coded in C++ or python. Preferrably C++. Realistically, there would also need to be both GTK and QT frontends, but developing the backend comes first, so you should really focus on that for the time being.

Finding developers should actually come before the "planning" stage. It's better to have developer input while planning so you can establish limits and scopes of what the project will be able to accomplish. You already have a basic plan down, which cites video and chat support, and a unified backend structure. It would be nice to also have some unique and innovative features.

After reading over my post, I do feel a bit stupid because what I've said sounds a bit dreamy, but it's true. Finding competent, driven developers is usually pretty hard. For starters, you can probably ask around in the programming section on this forum, but I doubt that will turn up too much. After you do find developers, it's pretty critical to be organized and competently manage the project, or it will most likely erode away if the dvelopers lose interest. Developers are usually bad at managing project and manager usually suck at developing :)

[onon_onon]

Many excelent ideas came up from mirc rooms, forum threads and discussion lists.
But, starcraft.man, you may be right, this may not be the right place to discuss. Probably because people don't want to see things changing, if there's nothing they can take from it. I called it a reward, a few posts ago.

[earobinson]

na gaim, pidgin is the greatest thing ever, its one of the programs that brought me to linux.

[maniacmusician]

EDIT: I'm not mad, but these seem to be almost daily, on a different program each time...

How true. Most things posted here usually get nowhere. I mean some things like this generally have a good theory behind it. It's true, it would be nice if there was a Linux client that could competently do this stuff on an open source platform, but the way this thread is going, it will probably amount to nothing.

But it does serve the purpose of getting attention. Someone may like the idea, pick it up, and run with it. Most likely, it'll have to be the OP that has to do the initial work in gathering people, creating specs, and laying down the basic groundwork for the idea. If the OP isn't willing to do that, then there truly was no point in posting, because it's unlikely that anyone else will do that work for them. Idea propositions are only good if the one that proposes the idea is willing to invest a lot of time and effort in it.

[sloggerkhan]

Most windows users I know seem to eventually use trillian, free or pirated. They prefer it to windows version of GAIM/Pigdin as it seems to have better default contact layouts and customizable themes.

I'm sure this implies something, but not sure what.

[igknighted]

Most windows users I know seem to eventually use trillian, free or pirated. They prefer it to windows version of GAIM/Pigdin as it seems to have better default contact layouts and customizable themes.

I'm sure this implies something, but not sure what.

I LOVE Trillian and have purchased it. I am really hoping that a Linux version comes out some time. I am running 3.1 pro in wine as it is, better features than Gaim, and even tho it is slow b/c of Wine, gaim is so slow its not much different.

[vicks]

Best case scenario would be them opening the specs for GTalk, if it's any different from the normal jabber.

As far as i know gtalk follows the xmpp-specs. And allt he important features like voice and other data can implemented with the jingle-spec that google has developed and standardized through xmpp.

The good thing with telepathy is that it seems that allt eh major players like gnome/kde is adopting it, so there will be one central place for reverse-engineering other closed protcols, instead of several programs wmore or less writing their own backends. This should be a more optimal.

[jiminycricket]

I think the key here is innovation. Theres this new windows IM client Ive become aware of, IMVU, that has a very innovative idea. They allow you to create an "avatar" that you can customize by winning or purchasing points with them. Its essentially a 3d chating client with the characters you create.
Prall, you're right. My sister recently installed this 3d IMVU thing and I thought it was spyware until I googled it and saw many people actually using that thing. Is it like Second Life (available on Linux) but stripped down?

I enjoyed mmusician's post too :)

btw: voice/video support, use kopete or msn.

[a12ctic]

I love gaim and its by far the best instant messaging program I've ever used. Why would you want to send files, do video conferencing, and other stuff through an INSTANT MESSAGING program is beyond me. Those things have little to do with instant messaging and are usualy handled better by individual programs.

[onon_onon]

I love gaim and its by far the best instant messaging program I've ever used. Why would you want to send files, do video conferencing, and other stuff through an INSTANT MESSAGING program is beyond me. Those things have little to do with instant messaging and are usualy handled better by individual programs.
This was my way to see IM too. I was really mad when my friends started to change ICQ to MSN, ICQ was simple chat, and I liked that way.
But you need to realize, users do not want to open several applications to do what they want, this is why we need an open source protocol that rocks in IM world. And answering your question, why people want to send files, do video conferencing and other stuff through IM, my guess is because their friends are there, in an IM client.

[igknighted]

I love gaim and its by far the best instant messaging program I've ever used. Why would you want to send files, do video conferencing, and other stuff through an INSTANT MESSAGING program is beyond me. Those things have little to do with instant messaging and are usualy handled better by individual programs.

Umm, because the protocol exists and it's easy? Why would I upload to some website for someone to download what I can directly send? Of course IRC has this ability as well, but many don't have IRC (and many workplaces/schools disable IRC traffic). Voice/video chat I have used, but only as a novelty. But file transfer is absolutely a must, I need a client that can do it. The voice/video is normally really easy too, and for those who have no interest in VOIP its a good, easy option.

[Praill]

Im glad so many people are interested in this. Well except for the one gentleman.
This is the reason I posted it in the Community Cafe. Its just a little idea I had that I wanted to bounce off other people and get feedback. Isnt that what the community cafe is for? To talk about random stuff? I dont see why it bothers you that people have ideas... but I digress.

I would be interested in actually heading something like this, but my lack of ambition comes from the realization that there are many better people for the job. I have done limited C++.. the largest thing I did was write a pretty crappy 2d game engine. In java, I made a snake game, a pong game, a few mass image manipulating programs for this company I used to work for, and a couple other things. I've never worked with socket libraries or done any network programming so this would be a entirely new field for me, but I think I might just look into it.

I have a day job and a web site I develop so free time is a little scarce but I know lots of comp-sci guys that might get ambitious when I bounce this off them.

Anyways, no promises.. but Im glad others see the importance of such an application on ANY os in these days of internet use.

[goumples]

Personally I like Gaim just fine... mostly because it is so very simple and doesnt hog resources like some of the more flashy clients.

[pirothezero]

I am a little confused...Is this a petition for a new protocol or a new IM client?

[qamelian]

Probably because people don't want to see things changing, if there's nothing they can take from it. I called it a reward, a few posts ago.

The problem is that many of the changes that people keep suggesting lead right back to the kind of bloat that many of us in part moved to Linux to avoid. Personally, I don't know anyone that uses voice or video chat and I have over 200 people in my buddy list, so these features are useless to me and I wouldn't use them myself. I wouldn't have any problem with this kind of functionality being added via a plugin for those who want it, but I just don't want or need it myself, so I don't want it installed.

[darweth]

We do not need a new client and here's why:

1) There are already 5,000 new clients starting up. Many of them based around Telepathy/Tapioca/KDE's implementation of it and etc. Most of these clients are really raw so just jump on board there and beta test/develop/suggest, etc. They are all built around XMPP/Jingle it seems though many also intend to be multi-protocol. HOP ONBOARD there! No need for yet ANOTHER new project. Seriously, there is a huge TORRENT of IM clients starting up.

2) If you are talking about the proprietary protocols... good luck. They have to be reverse engineered. We will never have a fully featured AIM/Yahoo/MSN etc. in Linux. aMSN does an amazing job as far as I am concerned, though I use Pidgin because 95% of my friends are on AIM and not MSN/WLM. Pidgin also does a fine job. Direct Connect works fine for me (for embedded images at least). That is all I need. I do not need the video/audio chat features.

[maniacmusician]

I would be interested in actually heading something like this, but my lack of ambition comes from the realization that there are many better people for the job. I have done limited C++.. the largest thing I did was write a pretty crappy 2d game engine. In java, I made a snake game, a pong game, a few mass image manipulating programs for this company I used to work for, and a couple other things. I've never worked with socket libraries or done any network programming so this would be a entirely new field for me, but I think I might just look into it.

I have a day job and a web site I develop so free time is a little scarce but I know lots of comp-sci guys that might get ambitious when I bounce this off them.

Anyways, no promises.. but Im glad others see the importance of such an application on ANY os in these days of internet use.
Heading it doesn't necessarily mean coding it. Like I mentioned, most of the effort goes into finding developers that are interested, finding program managers, artists, design gurus, etc. Coordinating the effort is tough, and it's even tougher to get it started and gather people for it. This is the responsibility I was talking about, and something you should undertake if you want to take it anywhere.

I am a little confused...Is this a petition for a new protocol or a new IM client?
A new IM client. The idea is that since Microsoft has their Windows Live Messenger, we should have something similar, by which I mean, a full featured IM client for Linux that's built on open source standards (Jabber would be the easiest to use). The idea is not to just have an ordinary client like Gaim or Kopete, but something that is much more full-featured and integrated. it would also be nice to have some innovative features that even Microsoft doesn't have in their implementation of instant messaging.

The problem is that many of the changes that people keep suggesting lead right back to the kind of bloat that many of us in part moved to Linux to avoid. Personally, I don't know anyone that uses voice or video chat and I have over 200 people in my buddy list, so these features are useless to me and I wouldn't use them myself. I wouldn't have any problem with this kind of functionality being added via a plugin for those who want it, but I just don't want or need it myself, so I don't want it installed.

I agree that it should be modular, and you should be allowed to turn features on or off. That would satisfy the largest number of people and seems like the ideal way to go about it. And of course, you may know 200 people that don't use that stuff, but someone else probably knows 200 or more people that do use these features and wouldn't appreciate not being able to use them. So yes, the key is to produce the greatest amount of satisfaction for the greatest number of people.

[onon_onon]

The problem is that many of the changes that people keep suggesting lead right back to the kind of bloat that many of us in part moved to Linux to avoid. Personally, I don't know anyone that uses voice or video chat and I have over 200 people in my buddy list, so these features are useless to me and I wouldn't use them myself. I wouldn't have any problem with this kind of functionality being added via a plugin for those who want it, but I just don't want or need it myself, so I don't want it installed.
Can you list some of those changes?
And why you simply don't use the plugin, instead to make other users do the job of install it?

[qamelian]

I agree that it should be modular, and you should be allowed to turn features on or off. That would satisfy the largest number of people and seems like the ideal way to go about it. And of course, you may know 200 people that don't use that stuff, but someone else probably knows 200 or more people that do use these features and wouldn't appreciate not being able to use them. So yes, the key is to produce the greatest amount of satisfaction for the greatest number of people.

That's why I suggested that I wouldn't mind these features implemented as plugins. Personally, I'd rather take a few minutes to install a couple things I need than to spend a lot of time removing stuff that I don't. You only need to spend a few minutes browsing some of the suggestions on the Gutsy Development section to see how many people are requesting things that would just make Ubuntu increasingly bloated. If I wanted a bloated Linux distro, I'd still be using SuSE.:)

[qamelian]

Can you list some of those changes?
And why you simply don't use the plugin, instead to make other users do the job of install it?

See my response in Post 30. Either way someone has to do some work. And as I said, I wouldn't use these features because, 1) I personally see no value in them and have no need of them, and 2) out of the 200 + people on my buddy list, not one of them uses either voice or video chat. If these functions were implemented in a pre-installed plugin, it wouldn't bother me. I would just uninstall the plugin. What is the point in having something installed that I would never, ever use?

[onon_onon]

If these functions were implemented in a pre-installed plugin, it wouldn't bother me. I would just uninstall the plugin. What is the point in having something installed that I would never, ever use?
Yes, this is what I was talking about.

2) out of the 200 + people on my buddy list, not one of them uses either voice or video chat.
I can't say if you are right or I'm, but in my first post you will read, I cannot bring some Windows users to Ubuntu just because the poor or none support of those features. I can tell you, at least 30% of my ~150 buddy list use voice or video chat.

[Polygon]

none of my friends (and i have at least 100 on my contact list) use video/voice chat either

and pidgin is amazing, its so much better then gaim 1.5.0, i love it. It connects to 4 clients at once, runs fast, is stable and supports buddy icons (or avatars), file transfers and logging, which is really the only thing i need.

and the pidgin devs are working on voice/video chat stuff, but its in development.

and i hate aMSN just because they bought the domain pigdin.im . That makes em seem like major jerks.

[Praill]

Well if you and none of your friends use video chat, custom emoticons, etc.. then keep using gaim. The idea was for people that WANT that functionality, not people that dont.

[Mateo]

none of mine use anything but text either, but most of them are from the old old school AIM, before it was a standalone client.

[loell]

we already have voice and video chat, many already knows about it.

its Ekiga :-P

[tehkain]

Anyone hear that Kevin rose is creating a new IM system? I hope its APIs are open so we can have a quality client.

[cypresstwist]

All my contact's avatars in Pidgin are gone... Anyone have the same problem?:(

[maniacmusician]

All my contact's avatars in Pidgin are gone... Anyone have the same problem?:(
..........what in the world would logically lead you to the action of posting that here? It's completely unrelated. This thread was discussing the possibility of the development of a new jabber-based IM client. Please don't hijack this thread. Start your own support request in one of the support forums, not in someone else's thread in the Cafe.

[fsf@rula]

Well, I simply haven't yet found a better IM client than GAIM/pigdin, and there is jingle (gtalk) support coming soon, which should rock skype both for voip and for Video conferencing.
I definitely think a jingle supporting client is really needed in ubuntu, and I think this issue will be dealt with for the next release (gutsy).
I think ubuntu should maybe help pidgin developpers to add jingle support and webcam support.
I definitely think jabber(XMPP) and jingle is the future in VOIP, so it would be best if there would be a backport for feisty also.

[Praill]

Ive spent the last couple weeks looking into this and seeing if its worth it to start developing my own, try to hop on a project, etc.
Basically the general consortium with supporting webcams in linux IM clients is 'whats the point'? Webcams themselves sparesly work in linux. I couldnt find a single developer that even wrote linux drivers for their cams.
That being said, I ended up coming across a great client that already has everything you'd need: skype.
Skype also has "video chat" support in windows, and probably will in linux once webcam use in linux is possible. Skypes linux client is kept pretty current with their windows one.

Anyways.. long story short.. i found, love, and will now use skype.. it rocks. It even has the ability to purchase free long distance with any number you want worldwide for about 50 EUROs a year. cant beat that.

[Ebuntor]

I didn't read the entire thread but I'd just like to add that there is actually a pretty good MSN IM for Linux.
It's called Mercury. http://www.mercury.to/
I used it on Windows all the time and IIRC it does have very good video and audio support. That was several years ago but I'm sure it has the same features for it's Linux version.

It's freeware but not open source unfortunately, kinda like semi-open source. Everyone can contribute but it's that easy to get a look at the code. (If that is important for you)
In many ways it is very similar to WLM and it has way more features (last time I used it).

[stijngysemans]

I have a few friends with who I webcam. they don't live in my country and we keep in touch with our webcams. My brother is in America (I live in Europe) to study, and we also keep in touch with the webcam. The children in our family (cousins, nephews) use their webcam on a daily base. These are children of 14 -16 years.

What I want to see is:
-features in aMsn (webcam!)
-implemented in GTK+ interface (gnome)

so that i can finally install ubuntu on my brothers, cousins and nephews pc. This is holding me back!

[starcraft.man]

](*,)

Resurrecting an old thread just to say that, is not helpful, in fact I think thats asking for a flame/arguement, if you had read any part of this thread you'd see its all been suggested already. Please don't do that in future, the devs already know and are working on features that are missing, and people have already suggested it before you (even in this thread). In the end I'll say exactly what I said to the OP/others who agreed by quoting my first post.

I was going to quote my previous note to the OP, but you can just go to page 2 and read it.

Oh and... aMSN does have webcam support in its latest build (I received webcam from several friends so I know it works), you can use skype for the audio and then you have a vid call. So it is already there had you just had to ask nicely...

newest build is here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=416062&highlight=amsn+new) in deb form: download and install first 4 debians and later down download the fifth deb.

As for coding aMSN in GTK, go tell the devs. We have no say in what he uses.

[%hMa@?b<C]

I have no qualms with Linux IM clients. I use PIDGIN and aMSN. Both excellent clients, they do everything that I need ot do.

[Roberticus]

What I want to see is:
-features in aMsn (webcam!)
-implemented in GTK+ interface (gnome)

Then this should perhaps be something for you, http://monkeymessenger.sourceforge.net/
It ain't really ready yet though.

Back on track. aMSN is too slow and too unstable for me, so no for that. Gaim (haven't used pidgin yet) is too minimalistic.
So that's why I use Kopete, detailed contact list (to see MSN peoples personal messages) and MSN emotions. Works better than WLM and I really like the main menu in Kopete. Wish I could have Kopete in XP...

[stijngysemans]

I agree that I should submit a request in the proper list or forum. There was one already in the gaim project and it was completely ignored. The best thing to happen is that someone who has the technical knowledge implement a video and voice chat feature for butterfly-telepathy.
Maybe i should look at that, with a friend of mine.

Monkey messenger is a very nice implementation of the DotMSN library. But the library itself doesn't support video en voice chat. Rather than implement it over there, telepathy would be a better choice.

[karellen]

I love gaim and its by far the best instant messaging program I've ever used. Why would you want to send files, do video conferencing, and other stuff through an INSTANT MESSAGING program is beyond me. Those things have little to do with instant messaging and are usualy handled better by individual programs.

no they're not. with yahoo messenger you cand send file as large as 1 gb on the fly. if this feature's purpose it's beyond you, then I give up any argument. plus photo sharing or webcam, which are important. this means communication, that's the purpose of an im, not just words on a screen. why not use irc then?

[RAV TUX]

I am not sure that this is range of the thread, but has anybody tried AsteriskNOW (http://asterisknow.org/about)?

It seems like a promising project.

Also I found browser based IM's to be exceedingly useful, like meebo (http://wwwl.meebo.com/), which you can see in action here. (http://cafelinux.org/forum/index.php/topic,305.0.html)

I would love for Opera to develop and use a browser based IM, much like they do with their IRC Chat and Torrent client which are both built in.

Perhaps the OP could develop something utilizing Ajax?

[GeneralZod]

Wish I could have Kopete in XP...

I imagine there'll be a port some time after KDE 4.0.

[loell]

no they're not. with yahoo messenger you cand send file as large as 1 gb on the fly. if this feature's purpose it's beyond you, then I give up any argument. plus photo sharing or webcam, which are important. this means communication, that's the purpose of an im, not just words on a screen. why not use irc then?

if its just that easy to integrate this feature, sure why not. :p

unfortunately, far too often gpl IM developers would have to read through the wire decoding these methods from a proprietary IM, with a litlte luck if they can decode it , then they will have to dedicate numerous hours to to write it in code.

but only to find out that in just a few months , the protocol changes. ;)
yes many want these features, yet only few are willing to play catch with these proprietary IM protocols.

[ncappel1]

we already have voice and video chat, many already knows about it.

its Ekiga :-P

but it still is not possible to connect to skype computers with ekiga. In a dream world, a telephony program would let you talk to either. A great feature of Pidgin is that you can connect to multiple clients at once (provided that you yourself have an account for those clients). If there were a telefony equivolent to Pidgin, that would be heaven.

[loell]

but it still is not possible to connect to skype computers with ekiga. In a dream world, a telephony program would let you talk to either. A great feature of Pidgin is that you can connect to multiple clients at once (provided that you yourself have an account for those clients). If there were a telefony equivolent to Pidgin, that would be heaven.

even in windows world, no third party client had cracked the skype protocol yet.
yeah , indeed it would be like all under heaven. so, who is willing to undertake the sacrifices to attain it?

[engla]

The SIP model is better, if only all providers came together and allowed you to call from/to any SIP network... there are still some larger that don't allow this.

In that world, you can use any client you want and call to an email-like adress, for example ulrik.sverdrup@ekiga.net

[Corbelius]

http://live.gnome.org/Banter

[fire3]

This was my way to see IM too. I was really mad when my friends started to change ICQ to MSN, ICQ was simple chat, and I liked that way.
But you need to realize, users do not want to open several applications to do what they want, this is why we need an open source protocol that rocks in IM world. And answering your question, why people want to send files, do video conferencing and other stuff through IM, my guess is because their friends are there, in an IM client.
Yes,very true of that.In China,we have a IM tool called QQ,and it has huge amount of users.Well..It can do a lot of things.Basic text chatting,voice chatting,video conference,many kind of online games, groups chatting..
The people around you all use qq in their windows system,but there is no good software can replace QQ in Linux.

[mostwanted]

Yes,very true of that.In China,we have a IM tool called QQ,and it has huge amount of users.Well..It can do a lot of things.Basic text chatting,voice chatting,video conference,many kind of online games, groups chatting..
The people around you all use qq in their windows system,but there is no good software can replace QQ in Linux.

Neat. I didn't know China used a different client from Europe or America. So China (most of Asia) uses QQ mainly, Europe uses MSN mainly, and North America uses AIM mainly.

[DarkN00b]

I like GAIM/Pidgin. It does what IM is supposed to do. It sends text messages from one computer -> through the internet -> to another computer. Anything more than that is window dressing (IMNSHO).

[loell]

Neat. I didn't know China used a different client from Europe or America. So China (most of Asia) uses QQ mainly, Europe uses MSN mainly, and North America uses AIM mainly.

surely china uses qq , but i'm not sure most of asia, for instance , here in the philippines and its neighbouring countries in the south east asia mostly uses yahoo messenger.

[mostwanted]

surely china uses qq , but i'm not sure most of asia, for instance , here in the philippines and its neighbouring countries in the south east asia mostly uses yahoo messenger.

I was alluding to the fact that China is a very big country :)

In Danish we have an expression called "Overdrivelse fremmer forståelsen" ("Exaggeration furthers understanding") - apparently not in this case, though! :D

[Vajk]

I understand that many of you don't need video calling, but I use it to communicate with my parents. I still need to boot back to ******* although I've tried many different options. Unfortunately none of them were stable enough or I run into problems configuring them. I'm trying to use Ekiga, I've also found Qnext (http://www.qnext.com) wich is very promising, has even encryption. Does anybody have any experience with it ? The audio is not working for me, though I use skype with no problem.

[seshomaru samma]

I can tell you that many of my friends have shown an interest in switching to Linux, the main problem was no good IM client for Chinese people (most of my friends couldn't care less about games):

Skype / Gaim does Chinese chat but not video
aMSN does video (poorly) but not Chinese.
QQ does Chinese but no video

Just a little note from China....

[hellmet]

I just wouldn't want to see another IM client!! I'd like to see the major players like Yahoo and Google bring out their clients for Linux soon. I've more hopes on GTalk than Y!M . Yahoo's messenger for linux has been version 1 since literally ages.

[jiminycricket]

I can tell you that many of my friends have shown an interest in switching to Linux, the main problem was no good IM client for Chinese people (most of my friends couldn't care less about games):

Skype / Gaim does Chinese chat but not video
aMSN does video (poorly) but not Chinese.
QQ does Chinese but no video

Just a little note from China....

How about Kopete? It's UI is a bit more complicated but I know it does MSN video.

[Vajk]

How about Kopete? It's UI is a bit more complicated but I know it does MSN video.

Yes, Kopete is nice. I've used it with YMsg for sending video and voice with skype, so for IM is really good. But for unexperienced users it's a bit complicate to use two programs for video calling. Skype will support video but that's a bit far, they just made a big rewrite on their 1.4

[mech7]

yeah webcam support should be put in pidgin :)

[syxbit]

gaim/pidgin hasn't improved in a long time
sean egan now works for google
you'd think he could get voice support in at least googleTalk!
pidgin is happy being no1 and not pushing the envelope.
someone else is going to take over, and that'll be whoever is like pidgin but adds voice/file transfer/video

[loell]

whoever puts video into pidgin bless him, but who ever attemps to get voice integrated into pidgin ie (yahoo vooice and msn voice), well , unlucky him.

see, many of us would bash gaim for not having the voice and video integrated, yet an IM project hast yet to decode the SIP method and authentication of these proprietary protocols and we need reverse engineers before developers can even begin coding these features

[misfitpierce]

Honestly the clients imo are fine for linux... Im still stuck to GAIM and cant even seem to upgrade to Pidgin... I'll miss gaim too much :(

[Vajk]

well I think some of us are talking about two different things : IM and video chat - call
:D

[misfitpierce]

Well the title says IM client :) lol... Not video messaging client.

[RAV TUX]

I came across a howto build a 3D IM using blender, unfortunately I didn't make note of the link.

[Vajk]

Well the title says IM client :) lol... Not video messaging client.
yes that's true, but then we got lost in talking about video calling :confused:

[loell]

Well the title says IM client :) lol... Not video messaging client.

unfortunately most windows users migrating to ubuntu assumes that (Messaging + video + voice ) = complete IM ;)

[syxbit]

i don't care that much about video
but i'd love googletalk audio!
it's an open protocol, so i don't understand why this can't be done,!

[Vajk]

One thing I don't get about google guys . . . GTalk has video calling on nokia n800, but it's only for nokia n800. This demonstrates quite well that it can be done. I just don't know why it's still missing in their linux client???:(

[loell]

One thing I don't get about google guys . . . GTalk has video calling on nokia n800, but it's only for nokia n800. This demonstrates quite well that it can be done. I just don't know why it's still missing in their linux client???:(

thats because the video call on N800 is from Nokia, that part is even propietary , its not part nor defined yet on Gtalk.

[Vajk]

thats because the video call on N800 is from Nokia, that part is even propietary , its not part nor defined yet on Gtalk.

correct me if I'm wrong . . . I've read somewhere that it was written specially for Nokia (unfortunately proprietary) but by the google guys.
I'm not saying it's not proprietary, I just want to point out that it can be done.

[loell]

i don't know where you've read that,

though the articles that i've read never mentioned google guys behind it, all but nokia's initiative . developing their own xmpp extension.

while it can be done , but because its proprietary nature FOSS developer will be having a hard time guessing the protocol specs, unless nokia is willing to share that part of the code.

the ideal route for gtalk to have video call , is to define it on libjingle.

[amendt]

I have been using jabber (voice) on the Nokia 770 and if I want to talk to a Feisty User I have to install the gizmo project phone. I also want to know what is taking so long to get jabber voice working with gajim or gaim (pidim). Ekiga works only with sip as far as I can tell. O well Live and learn. ;)

[loell]

you can use gtalk2voip service if you like ekiga and gtalk client to communicate :)
though gizmo is a bit better in that area.

[FiReSTaRT]

AMSN was one of the reasons I stuck with Ubuntu when I tried it this time around. That was about a year and a half ago. My wife and I are IM-addicts. We even talk via IM when we're on the same couch. Here are the features important to me:
-Universally working custom emoticons (that was a big failure I found in Pidgin/Empathy)
-Webcam support
-Voice chat support
The reason I came across this thread is that I want to say goodbye to the MSN and switch to an XMPP client. The only way I can convince my more important contacts to switch protocols is by throwing the Google Talk name around and offering the same core features as Live.

[TyrantWave]

Holy thread necro batman.

[Sef]

Necromancing. Locked.