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Greyed
January 24th, 2009, 06:34 AM
Gaming is what keeps appearing and it is very true. If they could write the exact 'Windows' games for Linux would enough people buy? Prob not but there is always hope.

Depends. Linux has two camps, really. One are the purists who feel that all software should be free. The other are the practicalists who feel that software should be free but paying for content is ok.

I'm of the latter camp. I have no problems paying for games because I'm paying for the content. That's fine with me. So the question is are there enough of the practicalists to count? Well, that's one question. The other question is if Linux had the same AAA game lineup as Windows would enough Windows holdouts switch over to make a difference?

I mean the second question is the real one, I think. I've been using Linux for email/browsing/word processing/etc for going on a decade now. I would drop Windows this instant if I knew, without a doubt, my gaming would not suffer. I've been saying that for almost a decade now. ;)

DeMus
January 24th, 2009, 12:29 PM
In Gnome you can assign keystrokes to suit you to launch terminal or minimise windows. There is also 'Compiz' and look at settings under the 'General' tab where many options are defined to show desktop, minimise etc.

Give it a go and see how flexible Ubuntu is. :)

How about the little button in the left-bottom corner of the screen to show the desktop and thus minimizing all windows?

Windows has the same one next to the start button in the Easy access panel. So, no differences here.

WatchingThePain
January 24th, 2009, 02:14 PM
Testout training software needs windows media player and works in wine but with choppy sound (even with windows codecs installed).

Znupi
January 24th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Look cool (http://znupi.deviantart.com/art/As-dark-as-I-can-get-110476003).

WatchingThePain
January 24th, 2009, 06:24 PM
windows can rinse out your wallet?
Most users prolly end up turning Aero off any way if they see how much of your resouces Desktop window manager is using.

geezerone
January 24th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Depends. Linux has two camps, really. One are the purists who feel that all software should be free. The other are the practicalists who feel that software should be free but paying for content is ok.

I'm of the latter camp. I have no problems paying for games because I'm paying for the content. That's fine with me. So the question is are there enough of the practicalists to count? Well, that's one question. The other question is if Linux had the same AAA game lineup as Windows would enough Windows holdouts switch over to make a difference?

I mean the second question is the real one, I think. I've been using Linux for email/browsing/word processing/etc for going on a decade now. I would drop Windows this instant if I knew, without a doubt, my gaming would not suffer. I've been saying that for almost a decade now. ;)

Probably be another 10 years! Better start [-o<

Like you (and many other 'realists') would expect to pay for content like games that take many hours to program and test but the numbers and copyright protection (as Linux is OS) would deter them in not knowing what profit could be made. Hence, Windows will, for the foreseeable future, have a large dominance over other OSes with gaming. Consoles seem to be where most of their money is coming from but, for now, Windows holds the OS gaming crown ;)

Then there is the cost of hardware - CPU,mobo,ram,psu,graphics card just to play the latest games! ;)

Greyed
January 25th, 2009, 04:01 AM
Probably be another 10 years! Better start [-o<

Like you (and many other 'realists') would expect to pay for content like games that take many hours to program and test but the numbers and copyright protection (as Linux is OS) would deter them in not knowing what profit could be made.

Actually I think this might be changing in the next few years. Valve has had job listings up that specifically state that they are looking for people to port software to Linux. If Valve brings Steam over to Linux and ports Source at the same time we could see native versions of Half-Life 2, CS:S, Team Fortress 2, Portal and Left 4 Dead. That'd make a pretty good test best, don't you think?


Hence, Windows will, for the foreseeable future, have a large dominance over other OSes with gaming. Consoles seem to be where most of their money is coming from but, for now, Windows holds the OS gaming crown ;)

True. Just a quick note on this. If one looks at Windows as "just another console" one finds it competes quite well. IE, it is only when one places Windows against all other consoles combined that it seems to be a minor player. But as a separate gaming platform facing off against 3 other separate gaming platforms I think it's actually middle-of-the-pack.


Then there is the cost of hardware - CPU,mobo,ram,psu,graphics card just to play the latest games! ;)

This is actually not that huge of a deal. The CPU/Mobo/RAM/GPU I bought 5 years ago still plays most modern games acceptably well. I think it wasn't until Bioshock that I thought to myself, "Whoa, time to upgrade here..." In that time I upgraded the RAM from 1Gb to 2Gb for $60 and had to replace my video card twice because of hardware issues (destroyed one, wife's card died and I gave her the 2nd) than because I had to. My hardware + game expenditures on my PC are actually lower than the consoles I've owned. Sure, the console hardware is cheaper but the games bite you in the butt. :)

geezerone
January 25th, 2009, 04:44 AM
The games for Linux - interesting if Valve do port games for Linux. Linux has come a looong way in the last few years even - Dell are even shipping computers with it. I doubt there would be enough people using Linux who would play and therefore pay for games but someone will have to make a step sooner or later. For the next good while Windows still will hold the crown.

I know windows is good at games but piracy is a big factor and heard that companies are taking note of games being copied thus reducing their profits. This could be a factor in the distant future but Windows is my preferred gaming choice because of its versatility (not just a gaming machine) and accuracy of controls etc. Then there is the fact you don't hog the TV! :D

The hardware cost - maybe you get stuff cheap but in rip-off Britain it ain't. I had to upgrade graphics card and try to future-proof (if that is EVER possible?) as much as poss and cost approx. $150 I guess. I was almost going to change mobo,cpu,ram (more hundreds of $'s) to play and prob will have to but holding off as long as possible. There is added value I know, as this will benefit other aspects of the PC but the gaming aspect is the drive to upgrade basically.

Hate Windows for attracting Viruses and Spyware - only the last week I was having to fix/advise on fixing people's PCs/laptops - getting fed up of it esp as done for free! ;)

Sketches
January 31st, 2009, 09:26 PM
a proper 3d program like sketch-up is my biggest bug!!! my only biggie really.

YellowHammer
February 1st, 2009, 02:28 AM
a proper 3d program like sketch-up is my biggest bug!!! my only biggie really.

You can get a VERY good 3d program for linux....BLENDER
http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/

Znupi
February 1st, 2009, 12:05 PM
a proper 3d program like sketch-up is my biggest bug!!! my only biggie really.
Sketch-Up is not a proper 3D program. But indeed, Linux doesn't have proper 3D programs like 3DS MAX, Maya, whatever.

Bozzer
February 1st, 2009, 01:02 PM
Zune? (Serves me right for having one, I know, but it was a freebie!!)

Znupi
February 1st, 2009, 04:39 PM
Zune? (Serves me right for having one, I know, but it was a freebie!!)
It was a freebie because if you have a Zune, you have to have a Windows OS which isn't actually a "freebie" :P. An iPod is much better because iTunes is free on both Windows and Mac and there is iPod support on Linux, too :)

YellowHammer
February 1st, 2009, 05:48 PM
Sketch-Up is not a proper 3D program. But indeed, Linux doesn't have proper 3D programs like 3DS MAX, Maya, whatever.

Ahem... Blender. Here's my novice effort using the program

Mr. Picklesworth
February 1st, 2009, 09:03 PM
K-3D is another little 3D program we have available. I discovered it a little while ago, and it seems like a REALLY polished little package. (And it uses a real native user interface toolkit - GTK - which is practically unheard of in a 3D graphics program).

Wings3D is another nice modeller. But yes, Blender is without a doubt the best all-round 3D art software, and not just for Linux. It's a great program once you get used to its quirks. Works REALLY well for a creative workflow since it is entirely non-modal. Everything is instant; every corner of the program is consistent with every single change you apply, button you press and object you select.

If you need convincing for Blender, check out the Big Buck Bunny project, and don't just watch the film (although the animation is excellent). Download the full production repository (http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/index.php/download/) (or browse through it (http://graphicall.org/bbb/index.php)) and explore every art asset they used to make the film. The beautifully rigged 3D characters are spectAcular. And yes, it's all done with open source tools (largely on top of Ubuntu, in fact).
They did the same for Elephants Dream (http://orange.blender.org/), which is an open movie in the same spirit. Not as nicely animated characters, but it has spectacular stills. (I believe they developed the compositing nodes system alongside it).

The thing with 3D software is the complex ones always have tight learning curves. Blender is one of the few that says "we can't have a normal interface, so let's have an awesome one". They're working on it, too; the next few releases are very focussed on UI.

hajbal92
February 1st, 2009, 09:09 PM
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.
I have photoshop with wine it works for me after a few configs... And GIMP beats Photoshop:D

hajbal92
February 1st, 2009, 09:10 PM
You can get a VERY good 3d program for linux....BLENDER
http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/

Google For: Elephants dream. Its a very good blender animation:D

Greyed
February 2nd, 2009, 04:45 AM
It was a freebie because if you have a Zune, you have to have a Windows OS which isn't actually a "freebie" :P. An iPod is much better because iTunes is free on both Windows and Mac and there is iPod support on Linux, too :)

And yet iPods don't support OGG. Neither does the Zune. A better player would be one that supported an open format, nut just be supported by open source.

.Ix
February 2nd, 2009, 05:46 AM
iPod + rockbox = ogg / flac support,AND ums. just sucks that the newer ipods can't be rockboxed yet, but the old ones work great.

Greyed
February 2nd, 2009, 08:22 AM
iPod + rockbox = ogg / flac support,AND ums. just sucks that the newer ipods can't be rockboxed yet, but the old ones work great.

Why "yet"? They won't, period. The Rockbox project has no intention of getting newer models on there. And by newer they mean models that are years old and discontinued like my 2nd Gen Nano I bought hedging my bets that I could Rockbox it eventually.

Not gonna happen.

Not ever.

No "yet" about it.

But alas, even though Apple doesn't support OGG they did get the labels to drop DRM. That's 2/3rds the battle right there.

joshmuffin
February 2nd, 2009, 09:42 AM
Ubuntu doesn't go well with video editing and I can't crack podcasting

Neural oD
February 2nd, 2009, 09:47 AM
well windows can help u get malware onto your system ;)

Giant Speck
February 2nd, 2009, 10:18 AM
Why "yet"? They won't, period. The Rockbox project has no intention of getting newer models on there. And by newer they mean models that are years old and discontinued like my 2nd Gen Nano I bought hedging my bets that I could Rockbox it eventually.

Not gonna happen.

Not ever.

No "yet" about it.

But alas, even though Apple doesn't support OGG they did get the labels to drop DRM. That's 2/3rds the battle right there.

Meh. I like mp3s.

Foster Grant
February 2nd, 2009, 02:34 PM
It was a freebie because if you have a Zune, you have to have a Windows OS which isn't actually a "freebie" :P. An iPod is much better because iTunes is free on both Windows and Mac and there is iPod support on Linux, too :)

Depends on the particular iPod model. I've had to bring Windows back in another partition for iTunes so I can use my iPod Classic properly. iPhone and iPod Touch are also pretty much "iTunes-required," and I know Linux users who can't bear to part with their iPhone.

Other things: Adobe CS apps, certain games, some 'Net multimedia content (streaming NHL hockey games on Yahoo Sports, notably :mad:).

Giant Speck
February 2nd, 2009, 02:40 PM
Depends on the particular iPod model. I've had to bring Windows back in another partition for iTunes so I can use my iPod Classic properly. iPhone and iPod Touch are also pretty much "iTunes-required," and I know Linux users who can't bear to part with their iPhone.

I remember when I first started using Linux, Amarok would corrupt the database file on my iPod. It didn't wipe out the music files themselves, but the iPod itself couldn't recognize the music I had stored on my iPod. That sucked.

It eventually stopped doing that, and then I switched from Kubuntu to Ubuntu. Rhythmbox works great with my iPod. :)

Cracauer
February 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM
iPod + rockbox = ogg / flac support,AND ums. just sucks that the newer ipods can't be rockboxed yet, but the old ones work great.

Exactly. Not that I use ogg, but rockbox is a much better OS for your iPod than that Apple stuff.

ario
February 2nd, 2009, 05:16 PM
Linux has infinite problems with blue-tooth devices. I cant remember any time I have successfully configure my blue tooth devices to run on Linux.
Linux is a beautiful software with a lot of widgets and a full 3D desktop "Compiz". But Linux was never been popular in gamers word as windows. you can go to www.ign.com and see all PC games are running under windows no Linux.
Linux is a very secure but easy system. But most software producers product there software for windows not Linux. Can anyone run AutoCad 2008 on Linux?
I think all Linux needs is that All Linux distributors join together to make software producers agree with build their software for linux. This can made by advertizing linux on TV or Internet more and more. And the most important: By making a very complete and bug-free and amazing distribute instead of making tones of incomplete and buggy distributions base on typically ubuntu or fedora.
I hope to see that day soon.
Sorry for my bad English.

rogier.de.groot
February 2nd, 2009, 05:20 PM
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.

Actually, for me MS Office 2007 and Visual Studio 2008 are the main things that keep me on Windows. And SQL Server too, I suppose.

Bozzer
February 4th, 2009, 01:07 AM
It was a freebie because if you have a Zune, you have to have a Windows OS which isn't actually a "freebie" :P. An iPod is much better because iTunes is free on both Windows and Mac and there is iPod support on Linux, too :)
Good point, trouble is your option means that people will see me with an iPod and might think I use a Mac which would definitely NOT be good! I'll probably sell it and get some other lesser known player which works with Linux! Cheers anyway!

Liviu-Theodor
February 4th, 2009, 08:52 AM
Enter an infinite reboot cycle without the operator's intent.

It happened also to me, Vista Ultimate did it.

Cresho
February 5th, 2009, 04:37 AM
"What can Windows do that Linux can't?"


Well, I think the most important part here is windows can charge and rape you for all you have. I have not seen linux do this. I think its a bonus for them.

Silver40mm
February 5th, 2009, 04:59 AM
For me, the biggest thing right now is that Netflix wont make "Watch Instantly" work with linux. My mom made me put windows back on her laptop because of this.:popcorn:

wlbragg
February 6th, 2009, 07:25 PM
It won't give up it's secrets as easy as MS! It's like pulling teeth to get answers and things done because it's user base isn't as large or doesn't appear to be as helpful. I have three outstanding issues with a changeover from MS and I am floundering around trying to get a hold of the correct info I need without having to get the equivalent to a masters in Linux. Then again if I stop and look at it I probably over time have received a masters in MS. I just wish I could get the answers quicker and easier.

kelvin spratt
February 6th, 2009, 07:38 PM
20gb for 64bit vanilla install with only office and nero using vista.

TwistedWeezar
February 6th, 2009, 11:34 PM
windows makes my webcam work with a couple of clicks on skype, i wasnt able to get it working under ubuntu after reading countless tutorials.

So i went back to XP in January, and today i got a dual boot (Intrepid Ibex)

Also Hardy Heron would shutdown my computer couple of minutes after starting any 3D game, while XP will only shutdown after 30-60 minutes. :popcorn:

arcillian
February 7th, 2009, 07:23 AM
The right thing, the first time you try it.

Support my hardware without exploding.

SLI.

Znupi
February 7th, 2009, 11:27 AM
The right thing, the first time you try it.

Support my hardware without exploding.

SLI.
If your hardware explodes, it's a hardware failure, not a software one.

HavocXphere
February 7th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Gfx drivers. They work and I'm thankful for the people putting time&effeort into them...but the quality&stability isn't on par with the MS side.

tsali
February 7th, 2009, 02:16 PM
If your hardware explodes, it's a hardware failure, not a software one.

He was talking about the software exploding. The nature of the vendor support model in Windows generally leads to better hardware support, although I'm sure there are exceptions.

dLeon
February 9th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Base:
Not just Ubuntu, but does Linux world still suffer with half work hardwares driver (even doesn't exist)? I notice that almost all hardware package box proudly print "Windows Ready" (at least in my country).

Top:
Windows can say "Windows".
We Linux guys call it "XWINDOWS".

Last:
Okay... forget the last part...;)

Tomatz
February 9th, 2009, 11:44 AM
Which planet are you from?

Zorg...

kimikrishna
February 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM
games..

only games.. !

kimikrishna
February 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM
because i feel that ubuntu has other things.. !

Znupi
February 9th, 2009, 07:05 PM
We Linux guys call it "XWINDOWS".
I don't call it that. And I've never heard any serious Linux user call it that. Windows is a good operating system. It has its flaws, yes, but so does Linux.

As for gaming, try Warsow (http://www.warsow.net/). It's awesome!

mips
February 10th, 2009, 01:50 AM
Just a article I came across,
http://mybroadband.co.za/blogs/2009/02/09/linux-versus-windows-%E2%80%93-a-battle-of-the-familiar/


Linux versus Windows – A battle of the familiar (http://mybroadband.co.za/blogs/2009/02/09/linux-versus-windows-%e2%80%93-a-battle-of-the-familiar/)


Duncan McLeod from the Financial Mail wrote an interesting article about Linux and its failure to encroach on Microsoft territory (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Software/6853.html) even in a time when one of their operating systems failed dismally to impress. The long and the short of the article is that this could be an indication that Linux will never crack the desktop market.
Other issues he mentions include usability for non-geeks and the datedness of the interface on even popular Linux distributions like Ubuntu. These are all valid points in my opinion, but I fear there is something much harder to overcome than simply updating the interface and making the system much more user friendly. Let’s be honest, Ubuntu is not that difficult to use even if you have zero understanding of the command line.
I have a different theory as to why Linux hasn’t broken out of the server room yet onto more desktops around the world and that is that kids are not learning to use computers on it. By far the vast amount of kids have their first and lasting computer experience on a computer running some form of Microsoft Windows. This is the case because the teachers naturally prefer to teach something they themselves have grown familiar with. Microsoft has been very clever in making sure that their software is available to teachers and schools at the very low cost of absolutely free! Linux, in itself free to most desktop users cannot compete with Windows at zero cost because then the only consideration to educators is how easy or difficult one or the other operating system would be to teach.
Windows will win the ease of use battle simply based on familiarity. I doubt there are even ten schools where Linux is actively used as an alternative to Windows, simply because of the familiarity aspect.
Duncan is right. The majority of desktop computers will remain Linux free forever it seems unless Linux can somehow do something so amazing for schools, that they cannot resist it. It will have to break through the familiarity barrier because at schools level there is no price factor differentiating Linux and Microsoft Windows.
Perhaps somebody should develop an auto form filler application for Linux that takes care of all the admin work for teachers automatically. That should get them started…
Entry Filed under: General (http://mybroadband.co.za/blogs/category/general/)
6 Comments Add your own (http://mybroadband.co.za/blogs/2009/02/09/linux-versus-windows-%e2%80%93-a-battle-of-the-familiar/#commentform)



1. linux is a joke | February 9th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I will tell you why Linux will never replace the Microsoft or mac desktops - its really simple
1> Linux aint free
2> When linux is broke its broke (microsoft can be repaired)
3> Who want to use something that you have to mount and dismount everything = Linux
4> Name one cool app you can purchase for Linux = none
5> Researching tech notes on how to do anything in linux
6> Linux sub commands all driven through commands -dah DOS is dead
2. linux is a joke | February 9th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Duncan is right. The majority of desktop computers will remain Linux free forever it seems unless Linux can somehow do something so amazing for humans by scrapping it
here is a thought why is it that all the code for lInux in mostly 70% complete Unless it is Suse or Redhat Enterprise version
Lets take Asterix - you download it and then try use it for a customer - sorry but you need to develop this and that and 600K later you have a fully functional retail able IP based PBX, Linux is a joke - nothing works properly and everything has to be developed at the backend - LINUX is NOT FREE
3. linux is a joke | February 9th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I rest my case
Ivo Vegter, lamented the situation. The problem, he notes, is that Linux is still too difficult for most people to use. It’s too prone to arcane problems that require commandline intervention. He writes: “By now, Ubuntu was supposed to be good enough to recommend to the average Joe. It isn’t.”
That’s harsh criticism coming from Vegter, who is a long-time Ubuntu user and fierce advocate of open-source software.
Linux’s problem may be the open-source business model that fostered it. There’s not a lot of money in open-source software — many developers give away their programs hoping to make some cash providing technical support. Development is often patchy, with programs too frequently abandoned by developers who have moved on to other things.
Also, trying to work with and guide developers around the world, most of whom are not on your payroll, is like herding cats. Much of the software that is included in Ubuntu is not developed by Shuttleworth and his team. So ensuring design consistency is difficult.
4. Tertius van Staden | February 9th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Linux is serious !
The reason it’s not taking over is just because most humans are totally lazy. Go back in your mind and think of the time when you were learning Windows or the Office applications. Most people tend to forget the battles they went through. People who are prepared to go through the learning curve is highly rewarded.
5. Antowan | February 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I have to agree with you Tertius. http://mybroadband.co.za/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
6. Rudolf Vavruch | February 9th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I agree Linux does need to pull up its socks. But that doesn’t mean that Windows is any better.
Part of the reason Windows is so prolific is because 99% of PCs you can buy off the shelf come with Windows preinstalled. The other part is that it is what most people know, and then only because it is ubiquitous. It is a self perpetuating cycle.
Despite the fact that Vista is widely considered a horrible OS, it was largely the only choice most people had when it came to buying a new computer. Why, unless very dedicated, would you buy a computer with an OS preinstalled and then install something which you had never tried before over it?
Microsoft has a good (or evil if you prefer) business mind and that’s why it succeeds. It’s laughable to think that some people think that Windows succeeds because it is a superior product.
Most people that own a computer (whether it runs Mac, Windows, or Linux) have a geek to call on when something goes wrong, or they take it into the shop. So the argument that Linux is too hard to maintain or install is moot. When last do you think these people installed or maintained Windows? Never, that’s when, because that is too hard for them to do too.
I know of a number of people who are not technical AT ALL that are very happily running Linux on their computers. Once up and running computer running Linux is as “usable” as any Windows or Mac computer.
To answer some of the first commenter’s points (the other points would take to much effort to point out that they are both wrong and right, depending on the situation):
2 - When linux is broke its broke (microsoft can be repaired)
> In my experience, when Windows is broken, you remove your hard drive and back it up, then you reinstall Windows. On Linux, you just have to boot up with a live CD and change a config file or two with a text editor.
6 - Linux sub commands all driven through commands -dah DOS is dead
> If the commandline is dead why is Microsoft advertising it’s new improved Windows PowerShell (which appears to be very similar to the commandline Linux has had all along) as selling point? I’ve seen enough Windows IT staff working to know that they dive into the command line too. The commandline is far from dead.

N4zgu1
February 10th, 2009, 02:00 AM
I think that its not that linux cant do things, its just that there are no good linux programs in some areas like:

Video editing
html editor
Flash animaation
and of course Videogames (they are more important than what some of you guys think)

Znupi
February 10th, 2009, 12:01 PM
Video editing
There are lots of good video editing applications for Linux. Google is your friend :)

html editor
Uuuhm. Gedit? What do you need more than that?

mister_p_1998
February 10th, 2009, 12:46 PM
Sonicstage, its all I use windows for to transfer to my minidisc. And Redchair software for my Creative Zen, never got Gnomad working.

Bob63
February 10th, 2009, 10:18 PM
I don't think it's so much that "Windows can, Linux can't" as it is manufacturers build and support equipment for the most popular OS, for which they in turn get revenue to keep their business going. Add to that the fear within a company that if they develop open-source software, they feel that the "patent-ability" and licensing is compromised - it has been pointed out elsewhere there isn't much money to be made in offering things for free.

Three years ago I tried my first Ubuntu distro, and there were problems getting my hardware to work. I recently moved up to Intrepid 64-bit, and it recognized all my hardware right off and configured itself. (Well, except for an off-brand cheapie digital camera, but I'm working on that.)

One thing that makes me very happy to use Linux is that an overwhelming amount malware authors seem to write their garbage for the Windows world. Surfing in a Linux environment is kinda like driving around in a tank when the badguys only have sticks.

Znupi
February 11th, 2009, 03:02 PM
I don't think it's so much that "Windows can, Linux can't" as it is manufacturers build and support equipment for the most popular OS, for which they in turn get revenue to keep their business going. Add to that the fear within a company that if they develop open-source software, they feel that the "patent-ability" and licensing is compromised - it has been pointed out elsewhere there isn't much money to be made in offering things for free.

Three years ago I tried my first Ubuntu distro, and there were problems getting my hardware to work. I recently moved up to Intrepid 64-bit, and it recognized all my hardware right off and configured itself. (Well, except for an off-brand cheapie digital camera, but I'm working on that.)

One thing that makes me very happy to use Linux is that an overwhelming amount malware authors seem to write their garbage for the Windows world. Surfing in a Linux environment is kinda like driving around in a tank when the badguys only have sticks.
Just to make things clear: not all Linux software is open source. There are lots of proprietary and even commercial applications available for Linux. Manufacturers could simply release closed source drivers for their hardware, the Linux community would be grateful. Actually, some manufacturers do just that, for example ATI and Nvidia. They both have proprietary, closed source drivers for their graphics cards. It's just that ATI's are utter crap and Nvidia's are the best, which is why anyone you will ask will tell you that if you want a good functioning graphics card on Linux you should go for an Nvidia one. To tell you the truth, for me, the open-source, community-developed, reverse-engineered drivers work a lot better than the official ATI ones.

Bob63
February 11th, 2009, 06:18 PM
Znupi,

I totally agree, and as my system happens to have an integrated nVidia GPU, I'm pretty happy that the company made their Linux driver.

And thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding about open-source versus proprietary closed-source. I think I actually knew that but somehow confused myself between brain and keyboard.

Bob

mister_p_1998
February 11th, 2009, 06:44 PM
Well yes, thats true, but at the end of the day, I cant connect to my MD on Linux, for whatever reason, shame.

pirate_tux
February 11th, 2009, 07:23 PM
...Stealing your privacy and destroying your system...

jjpcexpert
February 11th, 2009, 08:09 PM
It is completely wrong. In fact, it is vice-versa. There is at least one thing you can do in PS but not
in GIMP. It is 16-bit processing. Period. No need to do any more comparison. There is Cinepaint that
can do 16-bit and more, but it is not really usable now.
On the oter side, GIMP is simple and straightforward. When I needed to do some very special processing
of BW scans, I found the way in Gimp almost at once. Not so in PS.



O, please! Gimp JUST WORKS. Never had any problems with installation either on win or on Lin.
It has several ugly features, and it looks like they'll be there forever, but it works.

Other things that do not exist in Linux world :

* Non-linear video editing
* good NC clone
* full-featured programming IDE
* anything close to MSDN
* well, games...
Kdenlive is a good non linear video editor! Wake up Kdenlive was not tested by me but at least it is so.

geezerone
February 12th, 2009, 06:05 AM
... It's just that ATI's are utter crap and Nvidia's are the best, which is why anyone you will ask will tell you that if you want a good functioning graphics card on Linux you should go for an Nvidia one. To tell you the truth, for me, the open-source, community-developed, reverse-engineered drivers work a lot better than the official ATI ones.

Not true in my experience. I have managed to get a 4830 working with ATI's own driver where the 'supported' ones failed. Also got 9800 Pro working with supported ATI but never got a 6600 Nvidia to work with supported or Nvidia's own.

Buying a graphics card isn't just about drivers, it should be serving a purpose.

Roasted
February 13th, 2009, 06:11 PM
Not true in my experience. I have managed to get a 4830 working with ATI's own driver where the 'supported' ones failed. Also got 9800 Pro working with supported ATI but never got a 6600 Nvidia to work with supported or Nvidia's own.

Buying a graphics card isn't just about drivers, it should be serving a purpose.

I used to run a Nvidia 6600 on Ubuntu. It worked flawlessly. The system is still in use today and as of yet haven't had any problems. Now I'm running a 9600GT with the same positive results.

Bonsanto
February 14th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Ubuntu crashes in my system, but WIndows doens't. PLEASE HELP!

tsali
February 14th, 2009, 06:25 PM
Send a Hallmark eCard without drama...

Tried to send a Valentine's card from Ubuntu 8.04 Firefox this morning. Firefox crashed mid-stream - had to force quit. Restarted Firefox and Hallmark told me that I couldn't be logged in from two different browsers. Screw it.

Rebooted into Vista. Sent card. No drama.

That's why Windows is my primary OS.

Znupi
February 14th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Send a Hallmark eCard without drama...

Tried to send a Valentine's card from Ubuntu 8.04 Firefox this morning. Firefox crashed mid-stream - had to force quit. Restarted Firefox and Hallmark told me that I couldn't be logged in from two different browsers. Screw it.

Rebooted into Vista. Sent card. No drama.

That's why Windows is my primary OS.
'Cause you can send eCards? Well, Windows crashed on me while I was doing MUCH more important things, and I wasn't able to recover the data. That never happened to me on Ubuntu. And frankly, you could have just waited the time it took you to boot into Vista and log in again using Ubuntu. I'm sure it would've worked the second time around.

tsali
February 14th, 2009, 11:46 PM
'Cause you can send eCards? Well, Windows crashed on me while I was doing MUCH more important things, and I wasn't able to recover the data. That never happened to me on Ubuntu. And frankly, you could have just waited the time it took you to boot into Vista and log in again using Ubuntu. I'm sure it would've worked the second time around.

So you think whatever it was you were doing was more important than me sending my lovely wife a Valentine's card? Gee, I wondered who bestowed upon you such a wonderful sense of judgement?

Out of all the BS I had to deal with at work this week, this was, by far, the most important thing I've done.

Yes, I could've "worked through" the problem, but why should I have to?

What crashed Firefox was its apparent inability to play sound at the same time the music player is running. It's quite repeatable. Vista has no such problem.

I've been working on other important things...like taxes...in Vista. But I guess if I really thought it was important, I could do them in Ubunt...uh, wait...there isn't any tax software for Ubuntu.

So much for important work, eh

And lest you wonder...I've been using linux since 1999...a lot. And I've experienced about every kind of bug and failure you can imagine. I installed my first copy of WindowsXP retail in 2006. That copy and the subsequent Vista upgrade have performed flawlessly at every task I asked them to do. I've never seen a BSOD, malware, slowdown and never had to re-install.

So there...ecards are just the tip of the iceberg...

Znupi
February 15th, 2009, 12:05 AM
So you think whatever it was you were doing was more important than me sending my lovely wife a Valentine's card? Gee, I wondered who bestowed upon you such a wonderful sense of judgement?
You got it all wrong. I was just saying that sending an eCard does not imply hours and maybe days of work. I did not say it's less important.

As a response to the rest of your message: yes, Linux has its flaws, that's why this thread and this forum exist. It's just that, for some users, Windows has more flaws than Linux and that these users are slowly (but steady) growing in numbers.

Dssnz
February 15th, 2009, 12:25 AM
Good question???
maybe it doesn't run every program designed for windows but can windows run every program designed for linux?
Not likely.

Znupi
February 15th, 2009, 01:26 AM
maybe it doesn't run every program designed for windows but can windows run every program designed for linux?
One word: Cygwin.

Other than that, because most Linux apps are open-source, there will be someone to port them to Windows. Also, GUI kits (like GTK, Qt etc.) are open source, too and are ported to Windows. Most Linux devs compile their apps on Windows, too, because it's a hell lot easier than compiling Windows apps for Linux :)

fawzley
February 15th, 2009, 02:29 AM
[I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...]

Map a drive r/w on a win network. I have been screwing around with L'x for months now and unable to find reliable support documentation...
I have installed samba (I think) I can not tell if it is working; lack of support, no documentation.
I installed a package called dolphin I can sometimes see the network drives however I am unable to access as they require an password-- I set no password on the drives and they are easily mapped from xp computers with no password.

sunnydrake
February 15th, 2009, 02:56 AM
I've been working on other important things...like taxes...in Vista. But I guess if I really thought it was important, I could do them in Ubunt...uh, wait...there isn't any tax software for Ubuntu.

GNUCASH? OpenOffice Plugins?



And lest you wonder...I've been using linux since 1999...a lot. And I've experienced about every kind of bug and failure you can imagine. I installed my first copy of WindowsXP retail in 2006. That copy and the subsequent Vista upgrade have performed flawlessly at every task I asked them to do. I've never seen a BSOD, malware, slowdown and never had to re-install.

ahem used "Whistler"(beta XP) and i must say this is the best WinXP system i had (also used WXP SP0-SP3).. all WinXP suffered from malware, RPC call reboot and EASY admin rights exploit (just plug ethernet in it)
Windows/DOS user since 1991 :) In correct hands winxp can live about 0.5-1 years from release date... and then some massive usb flash trojan or internet attack can just bring system to ashes... also some earlier versions of WINXP made randomly damage to filesystem :)

btw using gnome,firefox,amarok etc... never had any serious(read need to reboot) GUI crashes, except once because ATI/Compiz crap. But on second day after i installed ubuntu i got sshd bruteforce attack (stupid bot's and windows users who got pc's fully trojaned:)).

damn,i will never got tired step in trolled discussion....

oldsoundguy
February 15th, 2009, 03:01 AM
one thing for the business person that Windows does that Linux (any form) does not .. run Quicken or Quick books .. the standard of the tax accounting industry.
If that ever got ported to Linux, a lot of lame excuses for not migrating away from Windows would go away!

(that and managing to get EVERYTHING Adobe to run .. not just some of it.)

What I am saying is that those programs are at the top of the heap for their type .. yet programmers continue to try to re-invent the wheel with substitutes!

tsali
February 15th, 2009, 01:00 PM
GNUCASH? OpenOffice Plugins?


That's not tax software.


In correct hands winxp can live about 0.5-1 years from release date... and then some massive usb flash trojan or internet attack can just bring system to ashes... also some earlier versions of WINXP made randomly damage to filesystem

Wonder why this has never happened to me? I certainly not the most proficient geek in the lab...awaiting your insight.

Znupi
February 15th, 2009, 01:21 PM
[I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...]

Map a drive r/w on a win network. I have been screwing around with L'x for months now and unable to find reliable support documentation...
I have installed samba (I think) I can not tell if it is working; lack of support, no documentation.
I installed a package called dolphin I can sometimes see the network drives however I am unable to access as they require an password-- I set no password on the drives and they are easily mapped from xp computers with no password.
Smb (as a protocol, not as a software) is indeed messy. That's because it's a proprietary Microsoft protocol and it had to be reverse engineered in order to create samba, which is great.

The password request you are getting is most probably due to the fact that your Ubuntu box is in another Workgroup than your Windows machines. For this, edit /etc/samba/smb.conf and change the workgroup directive (it's usually the first). On Ubuntu it defaults to "WORKGROUP" while on Windows it defaults to "MSHOME".

About writing to samba shares: indeed it's a problem. All you have to do is mount the samba share your own user. That's done by passing a uid=xxxxx to the options field in the mount command.

You should post your questions in the support forums here.

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 09:15 PM
It seems that serious gamers are more likely to hear about and try linux than normal people, thus it might be more important for early adopters such as yourself but for the bulk of people this simply isn't true. there is also nothing we can do about it so if you want windows games, go buy windows and stop bothering these forums; such futile arguments are counter-productive since I don't know a single programmer that has read one of these daft threads and been inspired to write the next big linux game shoot em up.

uhhhhh cube 2? Alien arena? Nexuiz? tremulis? And by the way all of those work better on my xp box than ubuntu and linux that they were designed for!
And wheres the support for Zune? It uses the same lib system that gnome and gnu uses so why cant i use it on linux, and seeing as how the hardware is the same as Ipod( yes I checked they use the same hard drives and cpu's) and its been out for 3 years so why no zune support?
I have no choice but to use xp for these! Because linux isnt keeping up with the times.

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Then someone else will.

Those people don't install Linux, they just talk about how their daddy bought them a new computer. The people who do install linux talk about business, about ethics, about avoiding vendor-lock-in, about technological autonomy and so on.

1 gamer = 10 computers?? 20 maybe?? 30 at most??
* Peugot Citroen = 20,000 desktop computers .... that are switching to Novell Linux
* France = government offices are switching several thousand computers to Linux
* Cuba & Brazil swithing to Linux = millions of computer
* OLPC = millions of computers
* etc. etc.

Those people couldn't give a flying _______ about gaming, and they equal many many more computers than a few lamers.

First off, How do you know they dont care about games? Have you talked to those millions of people? We are talking about users not computers and whether or not someone would dump windows for linux, or dual boot or just stick with windows, games are important, as are software and applications just because one group or another doesnt use those apps doesnt mean it shouldnt be supported duh! Windows comes with support for just about everything, and yes it crashes and it gets sick and blows up, BUT when its working properly you cant beat it for reliability and versitility. This being said I use ubuntu and miss all of my games, but thats ok cause i can get a console and play them that way without installing anything. By the way I dumped windows because of all the issues ,if they could fix the stability and security issues Id go back in a flash !

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 10:07 PM
I've spent a lot of time in this thread refuting the idea that gaming is the number one obstacle to Linux desktop adoption and the idea that most people or "everyone" plays PC games.

That said, I do believe that the gaming industry should make an effort to support its Linux users. PC gaming may not be that big (relatively speaking, anyway) in the "real world," but in the Linux world, it is pretty big. In fact, I'd wager to guess that more than 50% of active forum members here PC game.

I agree, its not just linux, but also the developers,. What I mean is first linux has to show its serious about bringing high powered games and whatnot to the box then the developers will say " Hey! Maybe there Is something to this linux gaming thing! Then they would take us seriously, Right now theres to much risk in supporting an OS that isnt showing that it wants Games like halflife deadspace etc etc. So its our job( the users) to say " Hey ! we want awesome games for the linux box!!! Is that to much to ask? If you dont play the games then you can get the regular version of your distro and not play games, If you want a pro editing studio version you can get that too, See what I mean ? Come out with A version of linux dedicated mostly for gamers, that supports the high quality games like Deadspace and whatnot, Then the developers will take Interest!

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 10:25 PM
I will give you the gaming

Rar files File Roller has a rar plugin to unpack rar files. Rar is retarded, just use .zip or .tar for compression.

VLC will sort your mp3s by folder, title, artist, etc.

As far as your scanner, blame Epson for not making a Linux driver.

There are a lot of free video editors for Linux (Kino is one of them)

There are a multitude of media players for Ubuntu (VLC, Totem, Rythmbox, Gxine, Mplayer, etc.). Remember the open source community invented .ogg and .flac.

except that linux does not have 1 ( and I mean 1 player instead of 4 in linux) player that can play all formats like window mediaplayer 11, I never had any problems with codecs cause i have them on disc, double clik and im watching dvd's, avi's mp4' etc etc, wma's wmv's mp3's mpeg, you name it and wmp 11 can play it. And whats with having to double clik on a avi file thats burned to cd to play it in ubuntu, all I had to do was put the disc in the drive in xp and it played automatically! Also it can rip mp3's and wma's driectly into the player and it never gets my song titles wrong, unlike everything in linux( and Yes I mean every ripper ive used I had to manually put in the tags) plus it doesnt even get the album art right, ever!!! If your serious about your multimedia collection stick with windows it just works! No compile this and run the terminal for this and then insert this into the pipe line and 3 days later you might be able to listen to your music. And by the way Only people who dont know about (shhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone) MP3's use ogg or flac, Duh!! its considered the standard for a reason!

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 10:56 PM
Depends on what you call facts.
Some facts I've stated, I consider so obvious I do not believe people would actually disagree, if needed I can back them all up.

Here is a short list of some of my previous statements, does anyone really disagree with this:

Facts:

0: There are many great "casual" games for Linux, but almost none for intermediate to advanced gamers.

1: MS consider gaming important, I'm pretty sure they have more research than anybody else to back that up.

2: Gaming industry is multi b/m-illion $ . ( $1.4 billion in US alone in 2005 )
I couldn't find reliable numbers for 2006, the same source, put them at just below 2005, but at the same time claimed it was an increase compared to 2005. I guess online sales (like Wild Tangent) was not included.
The number is far less than for consoles, but some people must be buying PC games.

http://www.physorg.com/news67831276.html

3: PC Games are NOT console games. Using Linux and buying a console will not replace PC games.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/technology/23gaming.html?ex=1178942400&en=f49edfd9691adaec&ei=5070

4: Macs has had enormous problems getting a solid foothold. Even when they were superior to windows in things like Graphics and music, and they offered cheap models, they have never gotten anywhere near Windows popularity, on the brink of bankruptcy, they were rescued by MS. The Mac was always and is still a niche product, a fiasco compared to Apple II. It has never reached sufficient success to be recognized by the majority of the industry, both hardware and software.

5: If people have to change their OS, ditch their old programs and learn lots of new stuff,they want more, not less. Linux offer more in some areas but also less in others, like games.

6: The typical PC hardcore gamer delve deeply into the system, to get the most out of their games.
They follow hardware trends closely, often build their own systems, and generally know what's hot, and what's not, in the PC scene. This experience often make them the preferred consultant for the rest of the family and friends.

Interpretation of the facts:
1: Lack of gaming is slowing Linux adoption ( not stopping it ), the degree is hard to determine exactly.
2: Games are not thee most important thing (obviously), but is still crucial if Linux aims to become "mainstream", and especially to fix bug #1.

Exactly, thats what ive been saying, I built my own amd from scratch with the best i could get like 3 years ago and aside from the cool eycandy effects, there is nothing my linux OS can do that windows cant do with more stability and more recources . If i have a problem with a game or app, or software in windows I can take it back and say I want one that works, or call their helpdesk and get step by step help. Granted I prefer XP , but it seems to me that if linux is going to be more than a glorified web browser out of the box, then they should be listening to us gamers. My mom has a dell, she only uses it for email and web surfing, thats it but I cant get her to switch to ubuntu cause she hears me complaining when I cant even rip an mp3 easily! Do you see the problem here? if its a pain in the *** for me( a more then average user) how can I expect my mom to want to deal with it? I cant be there everytime ubuntu glitches out and doesnt do what its supposed to, and she's not very computer literate so she'd probably just bork the system worse by accident! User friendly is the key word, also versatility, also High quality games for the linux box, also 1 player that can rip mp3's and comes with codecs to watch all the popular formats( kinda like wmp 11) out of the box no assembly recquired! Is that so hard to ask for? I guess thats why I have 2 pc's one to do real stuff with and one to amaze my friends and family! Cause linux is only good for eyecandy! I shouldnt have to have 2 when the capabilities are there in linux but no ones doing anything about, I can turn my desktop into a cube and set my windows on fire but I cant play Doom 3! What's up with that?

-jay-
February 15th, 2009, 10:57 PM
i wished they would port call of dutys to linux i hate wine

bart1452
February 15th, 2009, 11:22 PM
I tried your link and it didn't work - error 404.

I obviously couldn't see the webpage, but it would probably only list responses from the more enthusiastic gamers. I know people whose main purpose of using a computer seems to be gaming, but they tend to be young.

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 11:24 PM
I love Linux and gave up Windows because I do not agree with the path Microsoft has taken. However, much as I would like to, we can't convert everyone to the Linux way of doing things. We should accept them in, help them where needed and hope they decide to shake off the Microsoft shackles.

However:

We can't make people change. If they want to play games based on the Windows system, then let them. It's okay. The whole concept the Ubuntu community is not to tell people to change, but to accept people for what they are - at least the way I see the concept. If a person likes Linux for some things, and Windows for others, then they can dual boot. Nothing wrong with that.

I much appreciate your peace keeping , But I dissagree, not with your opinions or feelings nor with statements about people changing, but with dual booting. You see its a pain to have to reset my monitor everytime i dual boot so the only option is to buy another pc to install windows on so it can have its own home,Also if linux would put even half of the energy that it puts into making half assed applications that sometimes work and sometimes dont, then we could game,use photoshop or whatever your favorite thing to do is , make some drivers and apps and software closed source , that way no one has to deal with the" oops I forgot to compile that properly so now i have to do it all over again" syndrome that is Linux. Now Im not saying they should all be closed , nonfree etc, but when you use closed source it works better! Simple as that, No one has to figure out that the app they are trying to run is incomplete or somehow corrupted, or out of laziness just didnt finish it. Thats why people use windows! yes its unstable at times and nuclear at others, but when you come right down to it XP has been out almost ten years without a replacement, Thats like a billion years in the evolution of technology, so they must be doing something right! How many ubuntu's are there? Like 10? or more? do you know what that tells me? That they couldnt get it right the first second third or fourth time! People want ease of use! they dont want upgrading there OS every six months to get the newest app, Again this goes back to everything is compatible with xp, It was designed that way, backwards and forward compatible when will linux be able to say that? Ive played games that were made for win 3.1 and games that were made this year and this also goes for apps, and you know what? 90% percent of them work!!!!!! Simply Works thats what Im asking for from linux, no compiling no borking my system cause the update for some app was messed up before i even downloaded it, thats called quality control, make sure it works before you release it and people will be happy, Or dont and then when it frags in your face who do you blame? It seems to me that linux is suffering from the same sickness that everyone accuses microsoft of crappy software that doesnt work and if you do get it to work theres no warranty to back you up. To the point its not about playing windows games its about playing the High quality games on linux, and about having whats considered the standards in apps and software in linux. We want Linux, We love linux, but linux isnt giving us what we want so we have no choice to go back to windows, whos fault is that Ours?

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 11:45 PM
Just gaming, in paticular the games based on directx and there is nothing we can do about that. Lets turn your question around, what can linux do that windows xp can't ? Ultimately I believe that peoples choice of windows or linux will come down to money not what each os can or can not do. The people I introduce to linux are not interested in it untill I tell them it's free then all of a sudden their very interested, what it cant do and can do does not really enter the picture.

Then they are fools! I want to know what a car can do before someone just hands it to me! The same goes for everything else! I dont care if its free, Id gladly pay for ubuntu if it came with stuff that works like its supposed to.Id pay more if i could just pop my Doom 3 disk in and install natively into ubuntu! Id pay even more If i could plug my zune into it and start the zune software and market place! Id pay lots if I could run the popular software my friends are running instead of a knock off that doesnt work anywhere near as good as the original, Id pay if i could pop a cd in and only one mediaplayer could play whatever the content of that cd is, Id pay more if I could rip MP3's out of the box! Id pay more if the media player always got my album art and song tags right ( cough, windows media player 11 cough) But im glad i didnt pay for this glorified web browser that cant really do anything but look pretty and pretend its an OS!!!!!!!!( Ubuntu is for people who like working at their computer all the time and redoing stuff multiple times,spending more time fixing it than actually using it ) ( windows is for people who like to use their OS even if it does go nuclear sometimes!)

mwillams73
February 15th, 2009, 11:57 PM
If you want to save yourself a lot of wasted time, don't bother converting people to Linux just for the sake of it, particularly if their system is working fine. Instead, try to convert people who's Windows systems ARE broken, because then you CAN fix it by providing an alternative. The more terminal the situation, the more appealing a Linux distro can sound. Otherwise, the alternative won't appear practical.

Exactly your giving up alot when you drop windows, Although you are gaining something in return but i dont feel that that justifies having to give up your favorite game/s or your favorite app that linux doesnt have yet. If its not broken dont fix it, Now if i could get Intrepid to listen to that wisdom i wouldnt have all the problems im having! It keeps installing updates that bork the system so this time I got the basic updates and then shut the updates off! That seems to fix all the problems I was having! yay, the only way to fix it is to make it stop doing something it shouldnt have to do any ways! Go linux!!! stoopid box

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 12:23 AM
I guess we have different definitions of updates and upgrades! I know a lot of people that have purchased Photoshop CS1, and then CS2, and are going to be getting CS3. Office 2007 is actually a fantastic program and again, I know many people who will be purchasing it as well, eventhough they already have an older version of Office. That is the stuff to which I was referring to. Not a new emoticon update to your IM client.

Having said that though, I think most people don't ever upgrade anything, unless it is an automatic update. The people (like myself) who have this strange compulsion to upgrade to every new release of a program eventhough they will probably never use the new features are in the minority.

Both of you are talking about 2 different things, Updates, Upgrades, for me I hate updates in ubuntu they make it unstable and unreliable, why up grade if the app or program that you use still works? Also why update if it makes your system unstable? What the guy you quoted is talking about is the mini apps like messenger and so on but what youre talking about are software upgrades, Not the same thing! Using ubuntu if you want new upgraded software you have to upgrade your OS with the next release because that new program was not intended to work on the older release.(not always the case but sometimes they dont remember to make it compatible with the earlier version) Unlike XP which is backward and forward compatible therefore no upgrade to vista required!!!!!! What the guy you quoted was saying is that in XP you dont have to upgrade your OS in order to get the new, cool, slick, etc software to work on XP.

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Nope, I am afraid you are incorrect here. Windows is installed on 90+ of all desktop PC's in the world, and I can assure you that the majority of these users do NOT know how to find and install software.

I am sure most of the users in your younger generation can do these things, but the majority of PC users can not. Except for the odd geek like me, most 'old' guys my age don't have a clue how to do anything close to what you are talking about.

Thus if they had an LTS installed they would be perfectly happy.

With respect to your last point about inclusive packaging, that is the reason linux users complain about windows and how it bloats your system! Linux by design is much sleeker in nature and more efficient with system resources, partly because you don't have multiple copies of libraries floating around on your system.

Actually that last part about the multiple libs is wrong or didnt you know that when you remove a program with add/remove it doesnt remove it fully, thus there are multiple libs lieing around you OS until you manually remove them in synaptic via the status setting, so lets say you want to take out rhythm box and install banshee, it does not remove rhythm box but packs it neatly into a hidy hole and then downloads banshee and installs it. So lets say you dont like banshee and you want rhythm box back, you go to add remove and deselect banshee, and then reselect rhythm box, have you noticed it doesnt have to redownload rhythm box? thats because it never really removed it in the first place, it packed it away in storage. Im a newb and I noticed that the first time I used add remove or apt or synaptic, although that doesnt mean that all libs arent removed but in this case they are not, including games. Therefore if you uninstall a game and decide to reinstall it it could become corrupted because it wasnt fully removed in the first place, this is why I was having so many problems with reinstalling software it would become corrupted during the pack away neatly phase and the reinstall phase. And another thing the LTS has been proven to be unreliable many times as a way of upgrading I know this cause I cruise this site regularly and see complaints about software not working properly because the old version didnt remove the old libs and replace them with the new upgraded libs when upgrading say from one OS to the newer one. And in that case it would be more of a hassle than help, If you had to get a pro to help you because you upgraded then something is flawed in the way the upgrades take place. In this way XP far surpasses Linux, It removes the redundant files and replaces them with the new ones!

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Well - I'm a video game journalist and professional translator so I think you see where this post might be going. ^^
The former is clear but the latter also doesn't show Linux' strong sides. OSS apps like OmegaT(+) or Open Language Tools just can't live up to the commercial (and sadly very expensive) CAT programs like STAR Transit or SDL Trados on Windows. Also, since my profession requires a lot of text editing I'm a very advanced office user and although it is true that OpenOffice.org is a fine replacement for MS Office for every-day use you'll find that it is still lacking in features when you go deeper into all the options - I've been trying to adapt to it for a whole year and haven't felt a greater relief for a long time after having gone back to MS Office. ;-)

Other than that I find that Linux, especially the newer distros like Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Dreamlinux and Mint (which I'm currently on), is quite good for basic desktop use. Problems appear only when you have to perform advanced tasks, when Linux sadly shows its 40-year old unintuitive, complicated, "written by different people" Unix-like nature. Also, while the kernel and the system itself are both stable and secure, all the things that are shoved on top of them (by that I mean all the other FOSS packages maintained by thousands of coders) are quite buggy and unstable - even in their "stable" versions. I have yet to see a more advanced Linux app (I'm not speaking exclusively about GUI apps) that doesn't have at least some minor quirks that are visible right from the start. Yes, you get to choose what you install in Linux but you WILL have to install a lot of things if you want to have a full-featured desktop OS and then problems are inevitable. Even though this might sound like a blasphemous comment in this regard Linux isn't very different from Windows, in which the healthy kernel, vaguely based on legendary VMS, is brought down by loads of crap running on top.

Simple examples: mounting a Samba share from anther Linux server took me several hours because for some unknown reason the "unix extensions = no" configuration setting didn't work properly (even though Samba was saying otherwise) while the "nounix" mount parameter DID work and I had to try all the possible solutions before zooming in on the problem.

Not to mention the numerous X.org bugs and the problems people are having with it - solutions that work on one computer don't work on another, almost identical machine etc.

On a lighter note: What else can Windows do? Play the shutdown sound because it doesn't turn off the soundcard before playing it (yes, I fixed that in Linux =). NOT turn off the network before unmounting network shares which adds like 30 seconds to the shutdown procedure (fixed that one as well ;-).

In the end I'm still in love with the current Linux distros and for every problem they have I could probably list another one I had with Windows at some point in time. Even though I settled for Mint I tried Ubuntu Hardy Heron (which Mint 5 is based on) and was impressed by the progress it has made since Edgy Eft - the last version of this distro I was running.

For me Linux still isn't and probably never will be a system that can fully replace Windows as a desktop OS - it can do that only if you're either a very basic desktop user or a very advanced user with specific needs (like a programmer). In my opinion it's still very much a system for tinkerers because as long as it works it works fine but when things start to get pear-shaped there's simply NO WAY the average computer user could even begin to guess how to fix any given problem without asking a "guru".

The paradox here is that it COULD become a full Windows replacement if commercial software made its way onto the system but for that to happen it needs more popularity which won't be gained by distro evolution alone, given the still stunningly low (for its quality) desktop market share. It is still very hard to convince any business executives to try out FOSS alternatives because they don't speak the same language - things developed with zeal and passion don't appeal to them. They want a product that somebody is making money off because then they'll know that it will have stricter quality control and a dedicated support staff. It doesn't matter if FOSS alternatives are better or worse until they'll be able to switch from one OS to another smoothly, e.g. by running the same software at first and only later discovering viable OSS options.

Having said all of the above: I spend more time on Linux than on Windows nowadays, the latter I use only for gaming and my work (which is the same thing, sometimes =) because I find the system more elegant, responsive and prettier (in its GUI version, of course) than any given Windows version and I've been using the NT line since NT 3.1. I also didn't have any problems with Vista (except for the NVIDIA drivers that crash when I try to watch certain video formats -.-) so have no reason to hate this system or spread anti-Microsoft venom.
I also use Linux on all my network devices which contributed to a me gaining some knowledge about fixing things the command-line way which helps in GUI-based distros as well.

In my opinion there's no great conflict between Windows and Linux - both systems have its place and can coexist peacefully (if it weren't for some zealots who like to spread hate and venom all the time - I'm speaking of both sides). For specialized applications like servers Linux is, hands down, the better OS but for desktop usage Windows is still the way to go, for software compatibility if not for anything else, even though I regard it as good practice to dual-boot with any given Linux distro (even during the times when I wasn't dual-booting I kept carrying SLAX on a flash drive around with me, which I do till this day :-D). The choice to run a Linux-only computer seems more ideological than practical to me and viable only if you really don't need Windows AT ALL in your line of work. A bit like the anti-globalization movement fighting McDonald's... I for my part am in no way ideologically biased - at least when it comes to the choice of my OS which I regard as a tool, no less so than a hammer. Choose whatever you like, spread love and EDUCATE people about Linux, unite, not divide - isn't this what Ubuintu is all about - especially given its logo?. Just don't turn into a militant zealot writing Microsoft with a "$" sign and jump on the irrational Windows is crap and inferior in every aspect bandwagon because misguided hate and anger only cause unnecessary conflicts and you end up being no better than people burning the American flag (or Americans invading Iraq, for that matter =).

As for toppling the Redmond Giant - I want to see that happening some day because competition is always good for the end user. However, I believe that it will take a revolution and not evolution to do that. Unix-like systems have been developed for around 40 years now and they still show no signs of rapid growth in the desktop market sector - no matter how loudly Linux proponents are shouting and trying to convince everybody of their OS'es superiority or spreading anti-MS venom. I'm dreaming of a new, awesome OS that would be stable, secure, fast, intuitive and compatible with any software or hardware you might throw at it. And then I wake up. ;-)

OK - I'll end my lengthy post on an ideological note as well. Why do people hate Microsoft so much? They only care about money? Well, hello? It's not a charity - it's a company and companies make money. Unfair market practices - sure. No large concern is free from guilt but that's why we have laws and why Microsoft lost many lawsuits. If you want to blame somebody for Windows' prevalence in today's world then blame our money-driven capitalistic society, not Microsoft, which is just an organization that seems to know particularly well how to survive in this environment. (Do I sound too much like a Marxist? Well, I AM more of a lefty myself. ^^)
I haven't seen Microsoft's unfair market practices killing anybody, though...

Also, I don't think Bill Gates is in any way evil either. I mean - not for everybody money is the measure of success in life but surely we can't call him a complete failure. He's the very definition of the self-made man and he spends BILLIONS on charity - publicity stunt, you say? Maybe, but nobody forces him to act like that - how much have YOU spent on charity? At the same time I see Mark Shuttleworth spending $20 million on a space-flight. You see - there is ALWAYS more than one side to the story because nothing in the world is just black and white - if it is to you, then you're probably a member of the KKK ;-). There isn't ONE best OS - it might be only the best one for you.

Very nice, I like you have to use both systems I find that for my multimedia( e.g. games, movies, music,etc) Windows is the way to go, But everything else is Ubuntu all the way, It might seem like im hating on linux in some of my posts but really I love the arts, all of them music artwork movies. And linux doesnt have what I need in one complete package like XP does, on the other hand Ive learned so much from Ubuntu its like Ive found a new friend. Im hoping that one day those who are in charge of linux will look to windows for guidence in the multimedia department cause thats one thing microsoft does well!

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 01:38 AM
You can watch YouTube videos in Totem, and can therefore watch them full-screen without anything close to freezing.
And what problems are you having with DVD playback? I mean, aside from the installation of the required packages, it's always been a breeze for me, far easier than anything on Windows...

I find that amazing, In XP all i have to do is install 2 codecs from a disc that they are saved on and in less than 2 minutes Im watching DVD's avi's mp4's etc etc, in linux it takes me forever to find and then download all the multiple repos just to watch a movie on my computer, How is that easier than insert disk, clik ok clik ok wait for files to copy clik finish? There is no way that linux is easier than windows for installing simple codecs.

YaroMan86
February 16th, 2009, 01:44 AM
I find that amazing, In XP all i have to do is install 2 codecs from a disc that they are saved on and in less than 2 minutes Im watching DVD's avi's mp4's etc etc, in linux it takes me forever to find and then download all the multiple repos just to watch a movie on my computer, How is that easier than insert disk, clik ok clik ok wait for files to copy clik finish? There is no way that linux is easier than windows for installing simple codecs.

Is sudo apt-get install gstreamer* too hard? I didn't even have to put in a disk to do that.

Of course, I use Arch now, so my command actually changed to pacman -S codecs gstreamer0.10-bad gstreamer0.10-ugly gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-ugly-plugins

OH THE INHUMANITY!

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 01:46 AM
very little considering linux has WINE


Oh yeah cause i like using something that 90% of the programs dont work, or crash wine and theres the whole you have to have dlls, which you the user have to decompile and build from source! Cause everbodies a programer!I only use wine for Bittorrent 6.0.3 thats it the only other program I could get to work was star trek voyager elite force, even though Doom 3 and splinter cell are supposedly supported they didnt work for me so why would I use a program that barely works when I could use them on the OS they were designed to work on problem free?

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 01:59 AM
Is sudo apt-get install gstreamer* too hard? I didn't even have to put in a disk to do that.

Of course, I use Arch now, so my command actually changed to pacman -S codecs gstreamer0.10-bad gstreamer0.10-ugly gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-ugly-plugins

OH THE INHUMANITY!

Actually since im on intrepid its more complicated than that, first i have to download banshee cause its an all in one media player then i have to enable some repos, then i have to go back and add some stuff to software sources and then I can put in the codecs using the terminal, so yeah thats much harder when you have crappy banwidth compared to 2 minutes on XP, If i dont do all that the whole system goes to crap, plus I'll have to use 3 or 4 different media players, why would I do that If theres one that can do them all? Plus I also watch avi's and mp4's and have to get lame for mp3 ripping, it took me 4 hours to download all that last night, so Again which is easier? insert disk clik ok clik ok copy files clik finish watch movies. All because the repos for encrypted dvd's arent set up you have to set them up first and then install the proper codecs and then down load some of the restricted extras but not all, So are you really saying that it would take you less than 2 minutes to do all that and download all the proper stuff? unless you have huge bandwidth and 15 fingers on each hand I doubt it!

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 02:09 AM
Don't get a Canon then. Canon hardly supports Linux at all. Get an HP and then you can print just fine.

This isn't a limitation of Linux but a limitation of Canon.

Yeah cause throwing away our stuff is what linux wants right? You cant tell some one not to use the stuff they already have like they had a choice, Linux could make opensource software for this but havnt yet, why should that person have to throw out something that works fine in windows but doesnt in linux? So it is a limitation in both not just canon, if linux focused on making sure that drivers worked for all the popular hardware then we wouldnt have to spend a fortune on buying new hardware now would we?
Linux has the capability but doesnt use it.

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Thought you might like to know. The expression "free as in beer" means that something must be bought - you have to pay for it. Free beer doesn't exist - unfortunately:(

Free as in beer means you can make it your self!!!! not you have to pay for it.
There is no patent that I know of that restricts you from making your own beer, atleast not in america, you can do it in your kitchen with the proper ingredients. Therefore when some one says free as in beer they mean OPEN SOURCE. DUH! Yes you have to buy the ingredients but you can make all the beer you want!

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 03:45 AM
Well, if you won't take action, there will always be an OS called Windows.
By taking action, I mean asking the devs, each and every one of them, to port their games to linux, spend as little money as you can on windows games, and try to satisfy you're gaming needs with wine, or even Cedega (if you feel the difference).
Because if you won't, there will never be major games running on linux (natively), and is this what you want ? I got my needs sorted out (kind of), I'm still looking for a good driving game, but FPS's and MMO-RPG's are pretty much sorted, just because of Wine.

Oh and a tip about writing emails to the devs (about the gaming), don't beg them to make a version for linux, just say you can't find the version for linux (act surprised), or at least be surprised about that you found out that they aren't making any soft for linux, or be like:" I would love to buy you're product, but there is one thing. It doesn't run on linux".




Windows doesn't do multiple desktops, which is a perfect way to speed up you're job, when you are running multiple windows. Windows doesn't boot up faster than the iPhone, Windows actually has a price (!), Windows runs games (linux does too, well, sort of), Windows is made by a company with the only goal of world domination, Windows catches viruses, Windows has implemented the whole package into two processes (which makes it highly unstable), with windows you must have installed 5 packages on the server release to be able to do everything you could from a normal linux (even basic) linux distribution from a command line, Windows can screw you're day, Windows can ,hmmmmmmmm, support ATi and SiS graphics (as far as I know).

Windows can do multiple desktops, the software that comes with Nvidia Geforce 6200 le comes with the software for that , of cource its nothing like compiz, just letting you know, and in linux you have to setup all the cool effects and download the extras before you can do anything other than scroll side to side, Nvidia does this right out of the box. And by the way Alienware and Nvidia paved the way for those effects by making the ultimate visual eyecandy long before Ubuntu had it.

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 04:03 AM
Microsoft Office/Outlook.

Lots of games.

The myriad of codecs that just seem to work better on windows, along with the endless options for video/audio processing.

It's more of "what is tailored for windows" and not what linux "can't do" because in reality, Linux seems to me to be much more powerful and capable - it's just that the software is lacking due to no $$$ going to linux.

Well said! I do beleive that linux is much more powerful and does have many features that win is lacking, Now if we could just get the game developers to pay attention, the linux box has the potential to be the best gaming pc out there!! well besides Alienware anyways. As ive said before in posts Id gladly pay for ubuntu if it had the multimedia support that microsoft has, Then linux really would take over!!!!

YaroMan86
February 16th, 2009, 04:21 AM
Actually since im on intrepid its more complicated than that, first i have to download banshee cause its an all in one media player then i have to enable some repos, then i have to go back and add some stuff to software sources and then I can put in the codecs using the terminal, so yeah thats much harder when you have crappy banwidth compared to 2 minutes on XP, If i dont do all that the whole system goes to crap, plus I'll have to use 3 or 4 different media players, why would I do that If theres one that can do them all? Plus I also watch avi's and mp4's and have to get lame for mp3 ripping, it took me 4 hours to download all that last night, so Again which is easier? insert disk clik ok clik ok copy files clik finish watch movies. All because the repos for encrypted dvd's arent set up you have to set them up first and then install the proper codecs and then down load some of the restricted extras but not all, So are you really saying that it would take you less than 2 minutes to do all that and download all the proper stuff? unless you have huge bandwidth and 15 fingers on each hand I doubt it!

I use Arch now. I have all repositories already before I even install my distribution. And to enable all that I just type the command I issued before but also libdvdcss3 with one command. All done.

As for Banshee, I prefer not using Mono-infected software. Amarok and VLC do everything I need, thanks.

mwillams73
February 16th, 2009, 06:02 AM
I use Arch now. I have all repositories already before I even install my distribution. And to enable all that I just type the command I issued before but also libdvdcss3 with one command. All done.

As for Banshee, I prefer not using Mono-infected software. Amarok and VLC do everything I need, thanks.

Well good for you Huh?, I only use banshee cause it works the best for me , I tried to use amorok but couldnt really get the hang of it.Thats why I keep a lappy with XP on it so I dont have to have 3 media players, also I have a zune and say what you want about microsoft but the zune is an awesome Personal media player! It supports 3 times the formats as Ipod the only thing it cant play is avi's, and the bigger screen plus downloading song directly to the zune( not the zune software the zune player) Oh and the radio has this cool function where you can order the songs right off the zune while the song is playing, Ipod cant do that, In fact none of the PMP's that I know of can do that! Wireless sync, searchable market place directly from the zune player no pc recquired? I think I'll keep microsoft around until somebody comes up with something better!

geezerone
February 16th, 2009, 12:35 PM
I have no problem dual-booting at all.

Each OS has its own strengths and weaknesses. To say Linux is the perfect solution for all is wrong. Every individual must decide for themselves and if they want OSX, Vista, Mandriva, Suse etc then fine. Windows holds the trump card for the latest games which is a big attraction for those who don't want to buy an Xbox or PS3.

The Linux community is large but the Windows community is larger and so support is available if needed but given the fact that 'it just works' often is true with Windows XP anyhow, is a big selling point.

Why is it when someone doesn't sing the praises of Linux there is often an angry response? Lighten up chaps, it is just another operating system with its own flaws too.

Dithers
February 16th, 2009, 12:44 PM
If it WAS a pro, I would deal with gimp though, and save my money.

At work I use a mac like 90% of all graphics professionals, but Gimp, Picasa, Inkscape are more than enough for my personal life's photo-graphics needs. I enjoy learning new software and there are even things in the above titles that are easier or better which prompted me to install X at work.

Its amazing how quickly Linux software has been progressing over the past couple years. I predict gimp/inkscape to aquire CMYK support and become real competitors in the future, hopefully without becoming as bloated as the CS suite

anyone who uses windows and refers to them self as graphic artist, is probably a hack with pirated software and no education.

Znupi
February 16th, 2009, 02:58 PM
And wheres the support for Zune? It uses the same lib system that gnome and gnu uses so why cant i use it on linux, and seeing as how the hardware is the same as Ipod( yes I checked they use the same hard drives and cpu's) and its been out for 3 years so why no zune support?
Uhhh, what lib system? So what if the hardware is the same as iPod? The software is TOTALLY different just like the communication protocol with the PC. Try to use your Zune with iTunes and you'll see it doesn't work.
If it's so simple, why don't you build drivers for it? You're part of the community as everyone else.

djsephiroth
February 17th, 2009, 05:55 PM
If you were a pro you would have bought and used Photoshop.
Quoted for truth.

fragment your drive.
My roflcopter just took off!

Windows can play games using directx 9 really well. Also, with Windows your ATI graphics card actually DOES something!
I wish that weren't so true. Mandrake + Radeon = why I went from Linux back to Win2000 and WinMe.

Games, iTunes, Office suit that doesn't suck, Photoshop. that's pretty much what's left until it's worthy in the homes IMO :)

Linux that is
Very true. Games are a huge deal. I mean, look at all the WoW-related posts on WineHQ. A lot of Linux guys I've known still keep a Windows part or drive solely to play games. OOO is a joke in the professional world. Good luck getting anywhere with GIMP and OOO on your resume, as opposed to Office and PS. GIMP is kind of like paint.net: great for amateurs who need to do something fancy, but annoying for pros.


I think the question was really what one can do *under* Windows that one cannot do under Linux: for this the answer is: a lot.

For example, there are probably hundreds of devices that come with proprietary software that will only run under Windows and maybe with some luck under OS X, but nothing else. One example: the software that comes with my Garmin GPS system which is also necessary to install map data I have bought on a DVD to that device. Many consumer devices like camcorders, mp3 players, cameras come with software that will not work under Linux and where there is no replacement. Example: My Canon Powershot camera comes with a Windows program that can remotely control the camera and e.g. do timed shots. Nothing of that sort exists for Linux.

Many hardware devices do not work or only work in a very limited way: ink printers produce far inferior output with Linux drivers if they work at all. Some combo hardware devices do not work at all or only work in a very limited way.

All too true. Even my monitor looks worse in Linux.


Many special interest software programs (architecture, furnish your hous, design your garden, manage your stamp collection) are only available for Windows.

High quality programs like AutoCAD or graphical design programs or musical score editors or professional musical mixing and effects software is only available for Windows.

However, one area where Linux could help to make the situation better is by giving up its fixation that everything must be free and open source.
Yes!


Bashing Windows and fighting a holy war is not the right and most productive way to make these people switch eventually.
Word. Hating the OS != the right to bash the people who use it. If anything, you'll make them want to stick with it and forget about FOSS.

There's no native version of Scratch Live, so that's one thing Windows (and OSX) can do that Linux and FOSS software can't do for DJs.

dragos240
February 19th, 2009, 01:38 AM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

It's not really that it can't do things, it's because big companies don't want to make things for small open source OS'es. It's because most people don't use them and that it's not well known. I believe that linux can do anything, it's just people have to put time and effort into it to make it happen.

Bob63
February 19th, 2009, 02:37 AM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't DirectX made by MS? That would explain why Windows runs DX so well, and why DX games run well on Windows. I'm not a graphics professional and I'm not known for having an exceptionally good eye, but OpenGL looks pretty good to me.

As far a general gaming, I think the majority of the gaming engines are wrote for the MS platforms or else Playstation-type platforms. When the game engine authors get around to writing software that will run under Linux, then a comparison would be worthwhile.

What is the X-Box running? I don't believe it is Windows.

Znupi
February 19th, 2009, 02:18 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't DirectX made by MS? That would explain why Windows runs DX so well, and why DX games run well on Windows. I'm not a graphics professional and I'm not known for having an exceptionally good eye, but OpenGL looks pretty good to me.

As far a general gaming, I think the majority of the gaming engines are wrote for the MS platforms or else Playstation-type platforms. When the game engine authors get around to writing software that will run under Linux, then a comparison would be worthwhile.

What is the X-Box running? I don't believe it is Windows.
Yes, DirectX is made by Microsoft and it isn't even open (like anything MS) which is why wine and others have to reverse engineer it in order to get it somewhatly working. XBox? It's made by Microsoft so while it's not running Windows, I'm pretty sure it has at least a DirectX-compatible graphics card and probably a Windows kernel, too.
Dunno about Playstation.

insineratehymn
February 19th, 2009, 02:22 PM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

Mapping software. qGIS just does not cut the mustard compared to ArcView. Granted one is free and one costs $5,000us.

khelben1979
February 19th, 2009, 04:16 PM
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.

I definitely agree on this one and I know it has been discussed many times on the net.

I experience Windows XP to be good when it comes to watching movies also, although Linux takes care of this also, I have never seen and I don't know if it's possible to view blue-ray movies on Linux at the present.

Good hardware support for graphics cards and other things often comes to Windows first, then it usually comes to Linux a while later (I know that this might not be the case nowadays, but it's definitely been like this in the past)

Tibuda
February 19th, 2009, 07:46 PM
I experience Windows XP to be good when it comes to watching movies also, although Linux takes care of this also, I have never seen and I don't know if it's possible to view blue-ray movies on Linux at the present.I got a "Blu-ray" entry in my Nautilus preferences dialog, but just don't have a blu-ray drive/disc to test.


Mapping software. qGIS just does not cut the mustard compared to ArcView. Granted one is free and one costs $5,000us.I make all my mapping with maptools package for GNU R (http://www.r-project.org/), even in Windows, but it's command-line (no GUI). It can read Shapefile, and have nice features. I was a MapInfo user in the university, but I had to draw 40 maps, and doing it with point-click was getting boring... But then I found the maptools package for R.

ajayspi
February 19th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Linux has no gaming

and the ms office2007 is soo riduculous than ofice org

the freedom of designing in photoshop is what we lack in Gimp

Some good softwares we cant use in linux


But ubuntu tops in performance , speed.

etdsbastar
February 20th, 2009, 03:45 AM
Windows can let system go slower

but linux can't

Awaiting .... for a nice reply....

muck76
February 20th, 2009, 03:49 PM
the two things i have been struggling with on U 8.10 is skype and watching some TV vids on the net. I can not find the plug ins i need for that...

Being new to Ubuntu may not be helping me... everything else i like.

Dipper
February 20th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Things that can be done in Windows but not Linux:

1) Microsoft Streets & Trips. There is no Linux equivalent, nor can it be installed in Wine. Google Earth and Google Maps do not work offline.

2) Gaming. Yes, I will join the chorus of those who say that this is an important and critical part of the market. I'm somewhat disturbed by the fact that in the Linux world, which is all about free software and community support, that the only way to play real games is to use proprietary Cedega, which you must pay for. I have spoken to so many people who would absolutely love to switch to Linux but are unwilling to lose their gaming ability. Dual-booting is for geeks. As far as most people are concerned, if an OS doesn't do everything they want it to do, then there's no need to use it for anything they want to do. That's what keeps Micro$oft in total control of the market.

3) ABC Video. If you missed Lost or Gray's Anatomy, don't even think about watching it online. ABC's new format is Windows and Mac only-- a fact that ABC makes abundantly clear. It really smells like some sort of back-room politicking between the network and Micro$oft.

4) TV Tuners. I have a Pinnacle HD USB stick that is useless. V4L is complicated and requires compiling from source, which I and the average computer user are not comfortable with. Even when compiled (I think I've done it once successfully), the tuner does not work.

5) Webcams. Not a huge problem for me, but another deal-breaker for a lot of the people I have talked to about Linux.

6) Photoshop. Personally, I'm just fine with GIMP. I'm not a professional and therefore do not have professional needs. There is also Krita, but again it's not up to snuff for professionals.

7) Specialized Business Software. I would love to make the pitch to my employer about switching to Linux. However, most accounting software (including Quickbooks) just doesn't work in Linux. GNUCash is not a viable alternative. Also, there are other programs used in my office (World Point, Great Plains) that have no Linux equivalent nor are they widely-known enough to have been tested or developed in Wine. Micro$oft Publisher has no Linux equivalent and cannot be used in Wine either. So as much as I'm sure my employer (a non-profit organization) would love to cut the software budget (it's considerable) and switch to Linux, it would in no way be possible.

8 ) Any video card that is not ATI or nVidia. I have had a hell of a time with a friend's laptop that has an intel video card. I installed the i810 drivers, but no luck. This thing will not work and the friend has since given up. Because he's a geek, he is willing to dual-boot. But it is bothersome that Google Earth and other 3D graphic applications don't work unless you have a Linux-friendly video card (ATI/nVidia).

9) Full-featured instant messaging. Though I have been able to have limited success with skype, this is an area where Linux really has a long way to go. Large files can't be sent. Webcams (mentioned above) rarely work. Voice chat sucks. Pidgin and Kopete don't have half of the features of native Yahoo, MSN, or AOL messenger. And there's no way to install the native messengers in Wine.

10) Linux is invisible to hardware manufacturers. Have you ever looked at a hard drive, printer, or other computer device and noticed that the "System Requirements" always says Windows or Mac, even if it works with Linux too? It can be frustrating to see what hardware works with Linux and what doesn't.

Mohamedzv2
February 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
I don't get why people keep saying how Photoshop is better than GIMP. GIMP can do the exact same things, just in different ways. The only good thing is that PS has better vector support.

But Cinema 4D is ages ahead of blender imo. You can't do as much but you can do more and it's easier to use.

ukrapi
February 20th, 2009, 08:47 PM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes


The most important thing i find is the AutoCaD. I'm sure if the autodesk releases a linux version, most of them would quit MS immediately.

Tibuda
February 20th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Pidgin and Kopete don't have half of the features of native Yahoo, MSN, or AOL messenger.Thank god they dont have those "features".

jamesrfla
February 20th, 2009, 10:03 PM
I would have to say games. I can do everything thing else in Linux other than a few games. For some reason students in my tech class make fun of me for using linux. I need some things I can say back to them so maybe they won't make fun of me as much. I keep telling them that linux can do everything else other than some games but they still make fun me. So my answer would be that some games don't work with linux.

Giant Speck
February 21st, 2009, 12:19 AM
I don't get why people keep saying how Photoshop is better than GIMP. GIMP can do the exact same things, just in different ways. The only good thing is that PS has better vector support.

A professional graphics artist will probably tell you otherwise.

Dipper
February 21st, 2009, 01:14 AM
I would also like to add:

11) Google applications. Google Earth works, but it's buggy. Google Sketchup barely works in Wine and does not interact with the Linux version of Earth. The Windows version of Earth does not work in Wine. All other applications are specifically Windows/Mac only. There does not appear to be any interest in supporting Linux on Google's part.

Znupi
February 21st, 2009, 01:40 AM
There is Picasa for Linux (which is quite a step if you ask me :))

Giant Speck
February 21st, 2009, 01:44 AM
I would also like to add:

11) Google applications. Google Earth works, but it's buggy. Google Sketchup barely works in Wine and does not interact with the Linux version of Earth. The Windows version of Earth does not work in Wine. All other applications are specifically Windows/Mac only. There does not appear to be any interest in supporting Linux on Google's part.


There is Picasa for Linux (which is quite a step if you ask me :))

Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more Google applications that work with Linux.

I mean, they use Linux, don't they? They could easily take on Microsoft if they would just stop supporting Windows and OS X exclusively.

Franic
February 22nd, 2009, 11:33 PM
Supercopier. Seriously, I still don't get why there is no software like that available for Linux.

pallabbasu1234
February 23rd, 2009, 01:52 AM
excellent voice recognition in vista. gnome-voice and sphynix does not even come closer.

chmbrs
February 23rd, 2009, 02:09 AM
Re: What can Windows do that Linux can't?
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.

gimp is better than photoshop

bgates
February 23rd, 2009, 02:22 AM
There are only two things I have to run in a Windows VM, and they are both remote access solutions for work, with proprietary clients controlled by the Citrix corporation.

There are three of them altogether, and one does have a linux client which works fine. The other two don't, at least yet.

A regular user would only need one and not all three, but I test them from home to see what they do over the internet.

Foster Grant
February 23rd, 2009, 05:53 PM
I don't get why people keep saying how Photoshop is better than GIMP. GIMP can do the exact same things, just in different ways. The only good thing is that PS has better vector support.

Photoshop has true CMYK support, giving the user the ability to work and fine-tune in the CMYK colorspace rather than just convert from RGB to CMYK at output. The ability to fine-tune CMYK output is critical in professional printing.

GIMP has made great strides with its recent UI changes. The lack of true CMYK support is one of the remaining hurdles standing between it and mass adoption by the graphic design community.

oldsoundguy
February 23rd, 2009, 06:37 PM
re: Gimp vs Photoshop. Both are excellent programs. Both have very steep learning curves. PS has some better tools for editing such as the healing brush.
(but Gimp has no video tutorials to make that learning easier.)

The PS in Windows advantage at present: You can use a colorimeter on a plug and play to set true color in your display in Windows, not so in Linux.

You can manually adjust the color profile of your photo printer (If you have a high end one) in Windows. Not so using either cups or gutenprint in Linux.

A Wacom pad works, but not all functions work as well... and the airbrush (physical) tool does not work at all in Linux .. giving credit, Wacom (not the Linux code writers) are working on that .. but NOT YET!

Until those things are automatic, the switch by hard core amateur and professional photographers from Windows to Linux will NOT happen! (and it will be very hard to wean a lot of pros away from Mac, which does all of the above even BETTER than Windows.)

That, and the ability of Windows to handle a full blown home entertainment center is why I run a separate Windows machine. But it never goes on line except for updates.

tuddy666
February 25th, 2009, 12:28 AM
well, windows has the "advantage" of playing those really bloated, overrated shooting games that can be played on a console with less time, money and effort. Considering most emulators have a Linux port or equivalent, I'm happy with Linux. I guess the only reason I keep Windows on my main PC is because I have a 2nd Gen iPod Touch, which means no syncing on Linux for me, until I've jailbroke it, that is.

As for my previous comment about FirstPerson Shooters, if you couldn't guess, I think about 99% of modern FPS games suck, yet I have a soft spot in my heart for GoldenEye and Doom *gets semi-nostalgic*.

pmooney78
February 27th, 2009, 06:47 AM
Easily set up a second monitor on my laptop ... darn it ... anyone want to point to a "set up your second monitor" tutorial that doesn't require tweaking 97 different configuration files?

amylase
February 28th, 2009, 02:09 PM
OneNote 2007.

Even with WINE, OneNote 2007 still crashes frequently in Linux. I haven't come across any note keeping software as convenient as OneNote 2007 which unfortunately runs on Windows only.

Giant Speck
February 28th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Windows can interact with my iPhone. Well, I guess that's actually iTunes-specific, but since iTunes doesn't run on Linux yet...

David Crockett
March 1st, 2009, 12:01 AM
Hi all,

As far as games are concerned, Who cares? Who has the time to waste? Not me.

Where I find that I have to keep going back to Windows XP on my dual boot machine is to print to my bluetooth enabled printer and to use my scanners one by Microtek and one by HP. And my video out does not work under Ubuntu. I also use ActiveSync with my HP PDA. It would be great if there was an easy solution for Linux.

I really wish I could drop Windows all together, but I does not seem so anytime soon, unless I go Apple. And even then I will most likely end up with Office for the Mac. It is really hard to get away from Microsoft. OpenOffice is nice, but all my data files are in Excel and the graphs don't translate well.

As far as Photoshop goes GIMP appears to work pretty well as a substitute, but the leaning curve is a bit steep. I have done a few projects with it and it does the trick.

rhcm123
March 1st, 2009, 12:21 AM
Hi all,

As far as games are concerned, Who cares? Who has the time to waste? Not me.

Where I find that I have to keep going back to Windows XP on my dual boot machine is to print to my bluetooth enabled printer and to use my scanners one by Microtek and one by HP. And my video out does not work under Ubuntu. I also use ActiveSync with my HP PDA. It would be great if there was an easy solution for Linux.

I really wish I could drop Windows all together, but I does not seem so anytime soon, unless I go Apple. And even then I will most likely end up with Office for the Mac. It is really hard to get away from Microsoft. OpenOffice is nice, but all my data files are in Excel and the graphs don't translate well.

As far as Photoshop goes GIMP appears to work pretty well as a substitute, but the leaning curve is a bit steep. I have done a few projects with it and it does the trick.

Get ouuta my house!! :lolflag::lolflag:

Games are one of the main reasons i keep XP (x-tra poopy) around. Wine is good and all, except for the fact that it still can't use my graphics card (that i paid 350$ for) to full potential. So i fire up xp and run Fallout 3, crysis (low settings :() and the rest of the bunch.

Znupi
March 1st, 2009, 10:44 AM
Lol @ x-tra poopy. That is all.

k69
March 1st, 2009, 01:41 PM
Windows can get people to throw money at it, linux is by the geeks for the geeks!

silverwolf636
March 1st, 2009, 07:18 PM
Take my money. And, keep taking my money to buy more Windoze software cause the old MS software isn't compatible with newer windoze crap. Linux Does everything I need it to do. My whole house is networked with linux.
What really ended Windoze? I purchased XP for each of my systems here at the house and I use my system alot so about 3-4 times a years I will clean everything out and reinstall/reformat my system. Well the last time MS would not authorize my XP. I called them and explained to them what I do and they said to send them $150 and they would authorize me. I kindly told them that 10 years ago I was a computer admin over 5 sco unix systems that I would be switching to linux and they would never get another dollar from me. I purchased adobe photoshop several years ago the I purchased an upgrade 6.1 and it states in the documents to install it and call adobe to get my authorization number. I did this and everything was fine. I even purchased a new system and reinstalled (after calling for a new auth number) and everything went fine. AFter a few more years, last year I called them because of purchasing a new system and they said that the auth number came with it. They didn't have the slightest idea what I was talking about. So I did the next best thing... Enough said...

geezerone
March 1st, 2009, 08:19 PM
...As far as games are concerned, Who cares? Who has the time to waste? Not me....

Errr, people that play games :lolflag:

ralphieboy
March 1st, 2009, 08:51 PM
New to Ubuntu 8.10. So far so good. It's fast. I like it. One thing: I can't access my Citicard accounts online. They don't support linux. I'll probably stay with Ubuntu. Not so sure about Citi.

Unanimated
March 1st, 2009, 10:53 PM
Most people will prefer shooters and racing games to puzzle games. ;)

Yeah, I'm one of those people. Except for the racing games. They're kinda bleh, except for ManiaDrive. Puzzle games are fun.
I've actually found the gaming department in Linux to be worth the switch. I've wasted hours playing Tremulous, Urban Terror, Sauerbraten, and other games. Then I got wireless internet, and started using my Nintendo Wi-Fi USB Connector as a Wi-Fi card... Then all my shooting days kinda went downhill from there. Unless I can find a way to improve the signal strength. (: (Hint, hint)

satish_j
March 2nd, 2009, 09:44 AM
The multi-column view of explorer cannot be imitated in linux

crazyfuturamanoob
March 2nd, 2009, 08:34 PM
No cheat engine for Linux (or any other memory editors either).

Tibuda
March 2nd, 2009, 08:57 PM
The multi-column view of explorer cannot be imitated in linux
Not sure if I understand what you mean, but I believe it is this (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hoL9qH83NDM/SRCUAt2bcKI/AAAAAAAAARc/4vsPj0H2VaI/s1600-h/Nautilus+Compact+View.png).

David Crockett
March 2nd, 2009, 10:19 PM
Will Ubuntu ever be able to have a general scanner interface (like TWAIN) other than SANE that will be able to handle more scanners? It is one of the few reasons to keep Windows-that and wireless printing through bluetooth.

wsonar
March 2nd, 2009, 10:29 PM
ok, they what things werent written to work under the linux kernel? :D

Music production
Serrato
Ableton Live

linux alternatiives don't compare




And stuff for my job

assyst (ticketing system requires sql 2000)
proprietary work apps lis and bis application
Nortel VPN

gimp is ok but nothing like photoshop or fireworks



you pay for what you get....sometimes I would like to have the option to run software someone got paid good money to make it the best there is

digitalgecko
March 3rd, 2009, 05:28 PM
My big thing is quickbooks. Nothing else works as well.

eeeek
March 6th, 2009, 06:28 AM
To my knowledge, Linux does not have a competitive CAD system. I use Microstation XM (and v8 ) at work. I have looked and I don't think Mstation can be used in Linux (although I plan to contact them about that.) I have used Mstation for years, from SE on down the line to XM edition, currently. I know little of AutoCAD and I don't think it's quite as good as Mstation for what we use it for.

I installed QCad on my home Ubuntu box and looked through it quickly. I even brought home a file from work to look at - the closest compatible file format QCad can use is a .dxf file.

I really probably shouldn't do a review of QCad without giving it more of a chance, but I will anyway.;) It felt a little like GIMP with a weak CAD system overlaid on the top. I didn't see any options for reference files, which is a show stopper from the beginning. Like I said, dwg and dgn file formats are not supported. This also is a show stopper as Mstation will open an AutoCAD dwg file natively with no conversion necessary.

However, QCad is about $5,000 cheaper than Microstation. Man, they even have this thing now where they check your license validity from their servers DAILY. On first opening XM edition for the day, it takes minutes to get up and running after doing this check. Crazy.

Oh and as far as Inroads goes - nothing on Linux from what I know. Inroads creates and manipulates dtms, pipe networks, and such.

I haven't checked, but I wonder if there is a good storm pipe network design program in Linux. I'll look into that later.

Sorry, I know most people couldn't care less about CAD, but it's what puts bread on my family's table, so I thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth on this discussion.

I absolutely love Ubuntu 8.04 on my newly built computer at home. I don't need Windows for a danged thing in the home setting. But sadly, I don't see Bentley giving Linux the time of day any time soon.

silverwolf636
March 6th, 2009, 02:29 PM
To my knowledge, Linux does not have a competitive CAD system. I use Microstation XM (and v8 ) at work. I have looked and I don't think Mstation can be used in Linux (although I plan to contact them about that.)

Microstation is primarily unix based. I managed 5 sco unix networks 10 -12 years ago and I thought I faintly remembered the engineer using microstation.

Pasted from Google:

Linux for CAD
Bentley has a Linux version of MicroStation under development. The free basis of Linux is also prompting quite a change in software distribution methods. ...
www.cadinfo.net/editorial/linux-cad.htm - 35k - Cached - Similar pages -

FoxIII
March 7th, 2009, 12:32 PM
hmm. Something windows can do that linux can't? How about hog memory for no apparent reason? :D

RaZoR1394
March 7th, 2009, 02:36 PM
* Activate my Iphone 3G
* Use my internal card reader (c-media proprietary solution?/non UMS) http://www.nodevice.com/driver/company/C-Media.html
* Decode x264/mkv, WMV-VC1 with my 9500GT DP/HDMI/DVI-I easy (works fine in Windows 7 with Media player classic Homecinema - 720p keeps cpu below 10%) - In Ubuntu mPLayer SVN says VDPAU is active when playing back the videos but CPU is still way too high (30-60%)
* Tabet PC support out of the box - not seen any distro that provides this in comparison to Windows 7
* Native Google Chrome
* Native Internet Explorer (for iCloud)
* Use my D-link DWA-142 wireles USB2.0 NIC (works fine in Windows 7, Marvell won't release drivers, noone seems to be working on it)
* Easy to use click/drag overscan correction for Nvidia GPU:s with nvidia-drivers.
* Good working easy to use dual display support. Ubuntu works good as well but not as good as Windows 7 with latest drivers.
* No need to wade through configuration files.
* Official TVersity support
* Possibility to flash firmware to a lot of devices (depends on brand and model; burners, hard drive enclosures, mp3 players, media players, mice, Windows Mobile pocketpcphones, Iphone, Sony ericsson phones, cameras, motherboard firmware (does not always work with flashrom, neither can it be fully trusted),
* Fonts look much better (READ: out of the box!)
* Analyze discs with apps like DVDinfopro with support for most devices. QPXtool didn't work for my Pioneer.

Don1500
March 8th, 2009, 05:34 PM
Record streaming audio direct from the web.

akssoon
March 8th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Can run the program that actually manages to control my wireless kill switch PROPERLY...ALWAYS!!

Aaaaaarrrrrrgghh!

](*,):frown::mad::evil::evil:

dlobo
March 8th, 2009, 11:41 PM
Windows can get you a virus the size of the Empire State Building in your computer.
Ubuntu? not so much... :-)

Roanoke
March 9th, 2009, 02:32 AM
For me, games and printing to my MF 3110 canon printer. Those are the only two justifications for me rebooting into windows.

BrooksOfSheffield
March 9th, 2009, 05:09 AM
In my experience MCE > its competition... If there was a viable linux alternative that ran as stable for me and worked with my tuner card, I'd probably switch back to Linux full time... but as it sits now, I've been on Vista Ultimate for about 6 months with no substantive complaints... Just feeling dirty for running a Microsoft OS. My machine isn't terribly high-end (AMD Athlonx2 2.2Ghz, 2 gigs RAM, single nVidia 8600GTS/512MB), and Vista is very responsive for me.

Onenote is also a killer app. I never found anything in Linux that comes close.

That being said, Amarok FTW. Hands-down my favorite media player ever. Kaffeine is an awesome stand-alone video player (though the current version of VLC has made some outstanding strides in UI and may give Kaffeine a run for its money).

okamishadow
March 9th, 2009, 07:04 AM
Wow, something well known that Win do that Linux can't is: A BLUE SCREEN!! :biggrin:

Also.. some other could say: "oh.. but my games run pretty well over win", but we have WINE, and a really good game must have Linux Support...
Well. That's my opinion ... be free. ciao

k2t0f12d
March 9th, 2009, 08:08 AM
Record streaming audio direct from the web.

I can do this on a GNU+Linux system.

Znupi
March 9th, 2009, 10:09 AM
Wow, something well known that Win do that Linux can't is: A BLUE SCREEN!! :biggrin:
That's actually a bad thing. Although it is funny to laugh at Microsoft's blue screen of death, it is a very useful feature. In Linux, when X crashes, there's absolutely no way to regain control of the machine except by rebooting it (happened to me a few times). In Windows, on the other hand, that will never happen. Instead, you will get the blue screen and still be able to do a thing or two. This has been discussed before on this thread so just read a few pages back and you'll see I'm not the only one with this opinion.

madverb
March 9th, 2009, 11:39 AM
* Activate my Iphone 3G
* Use my internal card reader (c-media proprietary solution?/non UMS) http://www.nodevice.com/driver/company/C-Media.html
* Decode x264/mkv, WMV-VC1 with my 9500GT DP/HDMI/DVI-I easy (works fine in Windows 7 with Media player classic Homecinema - 720p keeps cpu below 10%) - In Ubuntu mPLayer SVN says VDPAU is active when playing back the videos but CPU is still way too high (30-60%)
* Tabet PC support out of the box - not seen any distro that provides this in comparison to Windows 7
* Native Google Chrome
* Native Internet Explorer (for iCloud)
* Use my D-link DWA-142 wireles USB2.0 NIC (works fine in Windows 7, Marvell won't release drivers, noone seems to be working on it)
* Easy to use click/drag overscan correction for Nvidia GPU:s with nvidia-drivers.
* Good working easy to use dual display support. Ubuntu works good as well but not as good as Windows 7 with latest drivers.
* No need to wade through configuration files.
* Official TVersity support
* Possibility to flash firmware to a lot of devices (depends on brand and model; burners, hard drive enclosures, mp3 players, media players, mice, Windows Mobile pocketpcphones, Iphone, Sony ericsson phones, cameras, motherboard firmware (does not always work with flashrom, neither can it be fully trusted),
* Fonts look much better (READ: out of the box!)
* Analyze discs with apps like DVDinfopro with support for most devices. QPXtool didn't work for my Pioneer.

All of those problems could be fixed by avoiding using products that have no support for Linux.

the8thstar
March 9th, 2009, 12:26 PM
I found that Windows deals better with my GPU than Ubuntu. Whenever I try to run Google Earth I get terrible flicker and black screens under Ubuntu 8.10. Disabling Compiz doesn't change that unfortunately. Under Windows 7 GE 5.0 runs like a breeze.

Giant Speck
March 9th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I found that Windows deals better with my GPU than Ubuntu. Whenever I try to run Google Earth I get terrible flicker and black screens under Ubuntu 8.10. Disabling Compiz doesn't change that unfortunately. Under Windows 7 GE 5.0 runs like a breeze.

I've noticed that, too. And I've also disabled Compiz when attempting to use it.

However, Google Earth isn't one of those programs that I personally consider important, so I don't really worry about it.

okamishadow
March 9th, 2009, 08:57 PM
That's actually a bad thing. Although it is funny to laugh at Microsoft's blue screen of death, it is a very useful feature. In Linux, when X crashes, there's absolutely no way to regain control of the machine except by rebooting it (happened to me a few times). In Windows, on the other hand, that will never happen. Instead, you will get the blue screen and still be able to do a thing or two. This has been discussed before on this thread so just read a few pages back and you'll see I'm not the only one with this opinion.

Jejeje, the purpose of my post if be fun... I know that the Blue Screen has certain functionality, like know the error reason or where was made (memory slot or address), but at the end is mandatory a reboot... so... was the deal... I think is almost the same... XD
However, you're right about when X hungs up... it's sad... we should do something about... a linux "Green Screen" :D:mrgreen:

Znupi
March 9th, 2009, 09:27 PM
Jejeje, the purpose of my post if be fun... I know that the Blue Screen has certain functionality, like know the error reason or where was made (memory slot or address), but at the end is mandatory a reboot... so... was the deal... I think is almost the same... XD
However, you're right about when X hungs up... it's sad... we should do something about... a linux "Green Screen" :D:mrgreen:
Or, in true Ubuntu fashion, a BROWN SCREEN :P

Simian Man
March 9th, 2009, 09:31 PM
The only things that Windows is better at than Linux is running programs and devices designed specifically for Windows. Technologically it has nothing on Linux at all.

Roanoke
March 9th, 2009, 11:35 PM
I think simian man summed it up quite nicely.

boban
March 10th, 2009, 12:07 AM
That's actually a bad thing. Although it is funny to laugh at Microsoft's blue screen of death, it is a very useful feature. In Linux, when X crashes, there's absolutely no way to regain control of the machine except by rebooting it (happened to me a few times). In Windows, on the other hand, that will never happen. Instead, you will get the blue screen and still be able to do a thing or two. This has been discussed before on this thread so just read a few pages back and you'll see I'm not the only one with this opinion.

You are joking, right????

----

In case you are not joking...

How do you regain control of the machine when you get a blue screen under windows without rebooting? :o I do not use windows much right now, but as I understand it - blue screen is final - windows cannot recover from some error. And if I recall correctly, you will not see a blue screen on modern versions of windows (xp+) - system will automatically reboot.

On the other hand - when X crashes - you just need to reboot X (ctrl+alt+backspace) or you can drop to terminal (ctrl+alt+f1) and kill X or the application that is causing the problems. If you cannot kill X that is probably drivers issue (maybe proprietary graphics drivers).

One thing that blue screen gives you is the error message. If you need it while encountering crash running linux/X just check log files (/var/log/messages, /var/log/Xorg.0.log, etc.)

Roanoke
March 10th, 2009, 12:09 AM
No, XP still has the BSOD.

boban
March 10th, 2009, 12:18 AM
No, XP still has the BSOD.

Hmm... Quick googling is showing me this page (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/russel_02may13.mspx). Relevant part:



One of the things that is quite different about Windows XP compared to Windows 9x (9x is shorthand for Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows Me in all their various versions), is that one can control how it responds to certain critical errors—those that cause the infamous Blue Screen of Death (BSOD). In Windows XP, the default setting is for the computer to reboot automatically when a fatal error occurs. If that fatal error only occurs when you're shutting down, the system reboots automatically.

(emphasis mine)

Znupi
March 10th, 2009, 01:07 AM
On the other hand - when X crashes - you just need to reboot X (ctrl+alt+backspace) or you can drop to terminal (ctrl+alt+f1) and kill X or the application that is causing the problems. If you cannot kill X that is probably drivers issue (maybe proprietary graphics drivers).
Wrong. Using open source drivers and X has locked on me multiple times without any possibility of getting out (no, Ctrl+Alt+Backspace, Ctrl+Alt+F1 and others did NOT work).
And yes, sometimes it is possible to recover from a BSOD. Also, I feel a lot more guilty when I press the hard reset button on my PC than when I just press Ctrl+Alt+Del :P

boban
March 10th, 2009, 08:29 AM
Wrong. Using open source drivers and X has locked on me multiple times without any possibility of getting out (no, Ctrl+Alt+Backspace, Ctrl+Alt+F1 and others did NOT work).

That is very strange. If you are not using some unstable drivers or development version of X.org then I cannot guess why X should crash. Maybe it is some kind of hardware issue? Have you checked your /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /var/log/messages after the crash (running memtest is an option, too)? Perhaps it was not an X issue but something different, f.e., something that caused kernel panic?

I am not saying that X has no flaws, but in last few years only X crashed I had was either caused by fglrx or something that I messed in Xorg.conf file.


And yes, sometimes it is possible to recover from a BSOD.

How can you recover from bsod if the system automatically reboots? Or even if you turn off auto-reboot, then give me just one example how to recover (I am just curious, idea of recovering from bsod is just shocking :P ). BSOD is like kernel panic, so I do not know how can you recover without rebooting...

Giant Speck
March 10th, 2009, 09:09 AM
How can you recover from bsod if the system automatically reboots? Or even if you turn off auto-reboot, then give me just one example how to recover (I am just curious, idea of recovering from bsod is just shocking :P ). BSOD is like kernel panic, so I do not know how can you recover without rebooting...

You cannot recover from a BSOD if your system is configured to automatically reboot. Also, if the system is configured to automatically reboot, it will probably flash the blue screen for a couple seconds and then automatically shut down and restart. If you let your system automatically reboot in the event of a BSOD, you are missing out on the important information given by the error screen.

If a BSOD occurs when you attempting to start up the computer, you should be given troubleshooting options, one of which would be to attempt to start the computer normally. However, if the BSOD occurs at any other time, the only way to recover from it is to restart the computer.

I remember when I was a little kid and I thought that if you got a BSOD, it meant that your computer was no longer usable, that it was actually "dead." :P

mister_pink
March 10th, 2009, 01:43 PM
It used to be the case (if my memory serves me correctly) that on the windows before they were all NT based (ie 95 98 and *shudder* Me) when you got a BSOD there were two types. One insisted you press CAD, the other said you could do that, or you could press any key to just try and carry on regardless. Usually pressing any key flashed your applications back up, then returned to a blue screen. I think this is because on those old windows it was a lot more common for an application to break everything, whereas since XP you tend to only get blue screens for catastrophic meltdowns.

Skorzen
March 11th, 2009, 03:34 AM
It's not that it can't do certain things, it's just that those certain things weren't written to be run under the Linux kernel, they were written specifically for Win32.

Here's the truth.

I totally agree with you, mate.

regonzal
March 11th, 2009, 06:47 AM
/ thread :p

However, I would like to ask: With OpenOffice and Goodle Docs being able to handle a lot of the same tasks most are used to handling with Microsoft Office is there truly a need for proprietary and expensive products?

k2t0f12d
March 11th, 2009, 07:22 AM
Although it is funny to laugh at Microsoft's blue screen of death, it is a very useful feature.

...to Microsoft developers, which most persons viewing these screens are not. I've never found BSODs useful beyond indicating cryptically that there was a problem. I haven't had any "choices" that I could use that resulted in resuming normal operation without a reboot. Further, because Windows is proprietary and distributes without any source, debugging the OS from the information a BSOD presents is not possible.


In Linux, when X crashes, there's absolutely no way to regain control of the machine except by rebooting it (happened to me a few times).

The X server takes control of input devices such as mice and keyboards, and during a worst case scenario a fault can block input from those devices even if the kernel and other service daemons remain uneffected. The lion's share of faults with this particular symptom occur when running X server with proprietary drivers, although any buggy driver be a culprit. This problem can be _completely_ circumvented by connecting remotely through ssh and killing the X server on the effected machine (I know, I've done this before - providing there is an ssh daemon running on the effected machine prior to the fault and there is a second machine from which to connect). It isn't the prettiest solution for mere mortals, but it is very easy to do if you are prepared ahead of time and know what you are doing.

After regaining control of the computer, there is a myriad of logs and data with which to trace the fault that occurred. Because almost all of the components of GNU+Linux are free software and the source is available, programmers can investigate any faults they have found (unless the problem is a proprietary driver, of course). Microsoft's business model strictly forbids this under any circumstances. So then, what use is the BSOD after all?

tsali
March 11th, 2009, 10:10 AM
I've been using Windows since 2006. I hear stories about BSODs but I've never seen one except in movies and pictures.

On the other hand, on the same hardware, I often have to restart X or recover from a kernel panic in Ubuntu.

resthavener
March 11th, 2009, 12:25 PM
Oh, easy - allow me to save docs to my network drive instead of having to save them locally and copy them across. And play music from said drive.

And yes - I know about editing fstab, but have tried every piece of advice out there without success - though my windows box and nautilus have no problem seeing it.

Like hordes of others to judge from Google. Pants - it takes 30 seconds in Windows.

tsali
March 12th, 2009, 12:28 PM
Oh, easy - allow me to save docs to my network drive instead of having to save them locally and copy them across. And play music from said drive.

And yes - I know about editing fstab, but have tried every piece of advice out there without success - though my windows box and nautilus have no problem seeing it.

Like hordes of others to judge from Google. Pants - it takes 30 seconds in Windows.

This is strange. I just tried doing all of the things you said your are having trouble with in Ubuntu 8.04...and they work fine. I am using a Debian Etch based home server with Samba. I have no issues mounting it at boot and using the defined shares like any other folder in all applications.

Have you posted your problem in the help forums?

eeeek
March 12th, 2009, 03:23 PM
A quick update on my post about using CAD on Linux - specifically Microstation by Bentley.

My contact at Bentley said, basically, that they have no plans to support Linux in the near future. The reason is that they have seen no business enterprises (who also use their CAD software) show any signs of commitment to Linux. The article someone mentioned earlier is pretty out-dated, I believe.

This is a chicken-before-the-egg type of argument, because I doubt businesses in their right mind would switch to Linux when the main program they rely on isn't supported.

Whatever the case - no one has expressed enough interest for it to be a financially viable path to Bentley.

Just FYI.

So in a nutshell for me - Windows at work, Ubuntu at home.

Na$$im
March 14th, 2009, 09:44 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

REPLY : Windows can let Viruses destroy your data ...that Linux can't do :D

just kidding ;)

akssoon
March 14th, 2009, 11:15 PM
In Linux, when X crashes, there's absolutely no way to regain control of the machine except by rebooting it (happened to me a few times).
Not true! There are two things you can try BEFORE you'll have to do any rebooting. See further down.

In Windows, on the other hand, that will never happen. Instead, you will get the blue screen and still be able to do a thing or two. This has been discussed before on this thread so just read a few pages back and you'll see I'm not the only one with this opinion.
I assume you're talking pre WinNT BSODs. Because at least since WinXP BSOD means either a automatic reboot or "see the BSOD, curse at the BSOD and reboot yourself"

The X server takes control of input devices such as mice and keyboards, and during a worst case scenario a fault can block input from those devices even if the kernel and other service daemons remain uneffected.
...
This problem can be _completely_ circumvented by connecting remotely through ssh and killing the X server on the effected machine (I know, I've done this before - providing there is an ssh daemon running on the effected machine prior to the fault and there is a second machine from which to connect). It isn't the prettiest solution for mere mortals, but it is very easy to do if you are prepared ahead of time and know what you are doing.
You don't need a second machine.

If solution Nr.1 (Ctrl+Alt+Backspace restarting the X-Server) doesn't work simpy use the Magic SysRq key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key) combination (Alt+SysRq+R where SysRq is the "Print" key on most keyboards) to take back control of the keyboard. From there you can log into another terminal, kill any programs to allow the to exit gracefully and restart the X-Server from there.

tsali
March 14th, 2009, 11:34 PM
If solution Nr.1 (Ctrl+Alt+Backspace restarting the X-Server) doesn't work simpy use the Magic SysRq key combination (Alt+SysRq+R where SysRq is the "Print" key on most keyboards) to take back control of the keyboard. From there you can log into another terminal, kill any programs to allow the to exit gracefully and restart the X-Server from there.

In my case, dead X also has killed the USB bus for whatever reason. The KEYBOARD IS COMPLETELY USELESS. Reboot.

k2t0f12d
March 15th, 2009, 08:16 AM
In my case, dead X also has killed the USB bus for whatever reason. The KEYBOARD IS COMPLETELY USELESS. Reboot.

So you are saying you tried ALT+SYSRQ+R, proving that it wouldn't work, before you rebooted? That's funny because you never mentioned it. In fact, I myself didn't know about that function prior to akssoon's post. But I use Archlinux and X server faults on my machine are extremely infrequent (which may or may not be related to the actual distro used).

By the way, if your machine was "frozen", and you had no control of the keyboard, from where did you retrieve information that revealed the USB bus had been "killed". Can you share that with us here?

tsali
March 15th, 2009, 09:39 AM
So you are saying you tried ALT+SYSRQ+R, proving that it wouldn't work, before you rebooted?

I have, in fact, tried it.

I am assuming the USB bus was dead because the machine was totally unresponsive to ANY peripheral input of any sort, yet it wasn't dead because it was serving up network shares and web services just fine.

And, no, I don't sort through myriad logs trying to find "the problem". Rebooting is faster.

greenfrog
March 15th, 2009, 10:42 AM
Run TaxCut or any other tax program nor are there equivalent Linux programs.

gjoellee
March 15th, 2009, 10:43 AM
Windows can get a lot of viruses, so can Linux, but in Linux you must manually trigger them...

Windows can launch a virus without letting the user to know about it.

AcidHawk
March 15th, 2009, 10:55 AM
Windows can connect to our company VPN using RSA SecureID token authentication which I have never been able to get to work under any linux distro.

Wanda
March 18th, 2009, 04:01 AM
Just glancing over these posts, I guesss there are a number of things that Linux can not do, however the best thing that Linix can not do is cost MONEY!

I don't know about other people but especially these daze... I can only think that out of real necessity large numbers of people will because of cost factors will understand that altruism is so much more important when it comes to information.

tsali
March 28th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Add a new one to the list...

Windows can run decent foreign language software. I haven't found any that works in Linux yet.

And no, running in wine doesn't work right...

powel212
March 28th, 2009, 10:05 AM
Only two things I ever boot into windows for is:

To type in traditional Chinese

and

to mount those stupid mdf, md0, (Alcohol 120%) files with daemon-tools. (Daemon tools rocks)

Ubuntu can do both of these things but windows does them better.

Everything else is Ubuntu all the way.

Powel

pwnst*r
March 28th, 2009, 07:01 PM
those videos you should copy the addresses for them and use mplayer at the command prompt, it's more likely to tell you what the problem is, more than not a missing dll or problematic codec.



I don't think gaming is that important to most people, only the very loud and the early adopters. once we're past this phase you'll find most new users don't play games or find the games available in Linux to be superior in the types of games they play (puzzle games etc)

i know that's an old post, but you totally read that wrong.

meznaric
March 29th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Only two things I ever boot into windows for is:

To type in traditional Chinese

and

to mount those stupid mdf, md0, (Alcohol 120%) files with daemon-tools. (Daemon tools rocks)

Ubuntu can do both of these things but windows does them better.

Everything else is Ubuntu all the way.

Powel

Can do. Simply do the following
cat file.mdf file.md0 file.md1 ... file.mdn > file_out.mdf
iat file_out.mdf file.iso

(It may be that mdf is already iso in which case you can just rename file_out.mdf to file.iso).

Tibuda
March 29th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Just glancing over these posts, I guesss there are a number of things that Linux can not do, however the best thing that Linix can not do is cost MONEY!

I don't know about other people but especially these daze... I can only think that out of real necessity large numbers of people will because of cost factors will understand that altruism is so much more important when it comes to information.You are wrong, Linux can cost money, but it can't hide its source-code.

powel212
March 30th, 2009, 01:30 AM
Thanks meznaric

I will try that "cat" function next time i get an mdf.

I will look forward to that.

Thanks

Powel

5oh
March 30th, 2009, 07:29 PM
I know something ubuntu does a lot better than windows.

Bluetooth dongle support.

I plugged it into my ubuntu machine and it worked perfectly. Windows, nope, nada, zilch.

:lolflag:

Mr. Picklesworth
March 30th, 2009, 08:22 PM
I know something ubuntu does a lot better than windows.

Bluetooth dongle support.

I plugged it into my ubuntu machine and it worked perfectly. Windows, nope, nada, zilch.

-snipped- I HATE LOLFLAGS

And that doesn't stop Windows/System32/DriverStore/FileRepository from taking up 2GB of space ;)

Znupi
March 30th, 2009, 08:56 PM
I know something ubuntu does a lot better than windows.

Bluetooth dongle support.

I plugged it into my ubuntu machine and it worked perfectly. Windows, nope, nada, zilch.

:lolflag:
I have to contradict you. Ubuntu broke support for my bluetooth dongle in 8.10 (I just hope it comes back in Jaunty), but it still works in Windows.

bhishan
March 30th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Gaming
Photoshop
I cant use wtorrent.com since there is no Bitcomet for linux
openoffice doesnt have trace changes functions
shockwave games

But I don't koow why I like Ubuntu.

n2stc
March 30th, 2009, 10:46 PM
Windows will let you do things without constantly entering the root password.

rhcm123
March 30th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Windows will let you do things without constantly entering the root password.

so will ubuntu if you set it up right - heres a PROTIP: don't.

Giant Speck
March 31st, 2009, 06:11 AM
Windows will let you do things without constantly entering the root password.

I suppose you also have UAC turned off.

If anything bad happens to your computer, it will be your own fault.

Znupi
March 31st, 2009, 09:01 AM
I cant use wtorrent.com since there is no Bitcomet for linux
What!? There are lots of torrent clients for Linux! Ubuntu even comes with one built in! It's called Transmission (http://www.transmissionbt.com/) and you can find it in Applications -> Internet. Personally, I use Deluge (http://deluge-torrent.org), mainly because it has some advanced feature and DHT support (trackerless downloading).

Netsu
March 31st, 2009, 12:15 PM
Games, Ableton Live
Photoshop works great for me under Wine.

powel212
March 31st, 2009, 03:11 PM
I tried "cat" with file.mdf file1.md0 > file.iso and it was fast and worked the charm. Thanks for the tip. What is "cat" exactly anyway? I have used it to compile .vob files before and that works great but what is it?

Powel


Can do. Simply do the following
cat file.mdf file.md0 file.md1 ... file.mdn > file_out.mdf
iat file_out.mdf file.iso

(It may be that mdf is already iso in which case you can just rename file_out.mdf to file.iso).

powel212
March 31st, 2009, 03:19 PM
Root passwd blocking is awesome. Not to toot MS's horn but UAC was the first good things they have done in years. The fact that it received such a bad reception only goes to show how little imagination people have. I always block elevation from standard users so they don't break the computers I build. Nearly everyone I work with hasn't a clue how to install a program without getting a virus. MS is way to vulnerable to allow root access to standard users. That's why Linux is so awesome. We have absolute control over how much power we give standard users. I just wish I could get all the block heads in my office to switch over to it completely.

Powel

n2stc
March 31st, 2009, 04:38 PM
I suppose you also have UAC turned off.

If anything bad happens to your computer, it will be your own fault.

Where did I say I had anything turned off?

Znupi
March 31st, 2009, 07:15 PM
I tried "cat" with file.mdf file1.md0 > file.iso and it was fast and worked the charm. Thanks for the tip. What is "cat" exactly anyway? I have used it to compile .vob files before and that works great but what is it?

Powel
Try:

man cat
If you didn't know about man, it's a great tool. Check out

man man

timoftheecat
March 31st, 2009, 10:02 PM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

Get Wine and you can play plenty of games including Counter Strike with Steam using Ubuntu. http://ubuntuforums.org/images/smilies/smiley-faces-80.gif

rhcm123
March 31st, 2009, 10:22 PM
I suppose you also have UAC turned off.

If anything bad happens to your computer, it will be your own fault.

no, you just have to setup sudo to let anybody in the sudo group have a full root shell. (i.e. your shell [user@hostname~$] behaves like [root@hostname~$]) without having to use sudo or type your password.

it's a very bad feature to enable. very, very bad. which is why i'm not going to tell anybody how to do it. find it yourself and screw your computer - i'm not gonna help you :)

Giant Speck
April 1st, 2009, 04:35 AM
Where did I say I had anything turned off?

I suppose you use XP then? Nevermind. I was thinking of Vista.

spike_naples
April 1st, 2009, 02:03 PM
The gaming experience for Ubuntu/Linux is not that the same in Windows although there is WINE, CROSSOVER and CEDEGA to tinker around with.

For Desktop Publishing or Adobe like experiences, I know that there is a GIMP plugin that will make it look and feel like Photoshop down to the icon and font level.

Overall, I am loving my Ubuntu life.

Cheers!

DenysT
April 7th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Two things right off the bat.
Elevated privileges: Right click on a system menu item and have "Run as..." come up so I can run with privileges. No, I have to open a terminal window and either sudo or gksudo. Well, at least for the Nvidia drivers entry, but what if you don't know the program name?

Networking: And as I have found out searching and searching nobody seems to know why I can't get share names for the network to come up. Failed to retrieve seems to the message du jour for networking (and remote connections fail). Dynamic IP addresses work fine in Windows but it seems static is the only solution for Ubuntu until I find out why I can't access shares using \\servername\sharename. Wouldn't it cool if like in Windows you hang a new PC on the router, configure the PC to have the same workgroup as the others, open Network and presto, all the shares are there. And why is it Ubuntu only lets me share new folders I've created and not the folders created when the account was made? I set share on them and the next reboot they're gone and I'm not talking about system folders but user folders. And the share never keeps it properties for allow others to write to...

Now HOW TO CRASH UBUNTU: Insert Epson Artisan 700 CD ROM. Wait until the message saying the CD contains executable code and then go to browse the CD. Wham! Reboot in progress and continues until the CD is removed. What an eye opener that was. And to think I actually e-mailed Epson about Linux support for the Artisan 700. Maybe Epson hates Linux and put reboot code on the CD. Or maybe I just a bad CD, naw worked fine on the two XP machines, no BSOD on them.

tsali
April 8th, 2009, 10:14 AM
Two things right off the bat.
Elevated privileges: Right click on a system menu item and have "Run as..." come up so I can run with privileges. No, I have to open a terminal window and either sudo or gksudo. Well, at least for the Nvidia drivers entry, but what if you don't know the program name?

Networking: And as I have found out searching and searching nobody seems to know why I can't get share names for the network to come up. Failed to retrieve seems to the message du jour for networking (and remote connections fail). Dynamic IP addresses work fine in Windows but it seems static is the only solution for Ubuntu until I find out why I can't access shares using \\servername\sharename. Wouldn't it cool if like in Windows you hang a new PC on the router, configure the PC to have the same workgroup as the others, open Network and presto, all the shares are there. And why is it Ubuntu only lets me share new folders I've created and not the folders created when the account was made? I set share on them and the next reboot they're gone and I'm not talking about system folders but user folders. And the share never keeps it properties for allow others to write to...

Now HOW TO CRASH UBUNTU: Insert Epson Artisan 700 CD ROM. Wait until the message saying the CD contains executable code and then go to browse the CD. Wham! Reboot in progress and continues until the CD is removed. What an eye opener that was. And to think I actually e-mailed Epson about Linux support for the Artisan 700. Maybe Epson hates Linux and put reboot code on the CD. Or maybe I just a bad CD, naw worked fine on the two XP machines, no BSOD on them.

I have no problem doing the things you have described and I haven't done anything special, so I can't give a step by step fix.

As far as feeding an OS foreign code and expecting it not to behave oddly...don't you think that's a bit ridiculous? If you fed a Windows machine an OSX disc and it crashed, would you offer the same complaint?

kapi
April 10th, 2009, 09:05 PM
No one has mentioned web design. As it happens I am in the process of deliberating whether to go back to vista( please don't sigh ) the reason being is that I am tired of trying to check my web site looks ok in the many versions of IE and its becoming a real pain because it's difficult in linux. Oh yes I tried the usual - wine IE4Linux and obviously the virtual pc route. Its just more hassle . Problem is . . . I love Ubuntu, its great, it's free and oh yeah it's free! It works for most business uses, doesnt crash, has a great looking interface and is secure. But . . when doing web design the problem we face is the proprietary MS format that the world seems to adhere to. I dare Mac users have the same problems. I keep thinking that if i have to install vista or xp in virtual box then whats the point, I'd just as well install the whole thing on a laptop

what are your thoughts?

Kapi

Tibuda
April 10th, 2009, 11:33 PM
No one has mentioned web design. As it happens I am in the process of deliberating whether to go back to vista( please don't sigh ) the reason being is that I am tired of trying to check my web site looks ok in the many versions of IE and its becoming a real pain because it's difficult in linux. Oh yes I tried the usual - wine IE4Linux and obviously the virtual pc route. Its just more hassle . Problem is . . . I love Ubuntu, its great, it's free and oh yeah it's free! It works for most business uses, doesnt crash, has a great looking interface and is secure. But . . when doing web design the problem we face is the proprietary MS format that the world seems to adhere to. I dare Mac users have the same problems. I keep thinking that if i have to install vista or xp in virtual box then whats the point, I'd just as well install the whole thing on a laptop

what are your thoughts?

KapiWhat MS format are you talking about? Just be strict on web standards and semantic you'll only have little problems with IE6. And the main problem you'll see is PNG alpha. The point on using virtualization is you got a productive development environment with Linux/Mac. That's a personal taste, of course.

Bob63
April 11th, 2009, 12:54 AM
kapi, I have to agree with danielrmt. More websites seem to be using pages that pass the W3 checks. If your pages can do this, then I don't understand the issue. It's MS that makes a goofy browser. IE8, during beta testing, had issues displaying drop-down boxes correctly on the Google Gmail page, yet these same drop-downs worked perfect in FF3 and Opera. So where was the problem? My money was that one of the code monkeys at MS goofed, and not Google.

Web designers should be writing code that works in all browsers, and not wasting their time crafting pages to work with just one particular browser. Write strict code, and verify it against W3.

I have a strong dislike of websites that give me a message like "You must be using IE to access this site." It should make no difference what browser I use to view a page. My preferred browser is FF, whether I'm using Windows or Ubuntu because I get consistent performance and security from it,and I can customize FF. That's just gravy.

hodge24
April 11th, 2009, 07:04 AM
One major thing I've found that Windows can do, and I just can't for the life of me get to occur with Linux: crash. Regularly and spectacularly. I think this is an important "feature" developers of all Linux flavours should consider - especially for new users just converting to Linux, who may be confused by the lack of BSOD...

Znupi
April 11th, 2009, 09:29 AM
No one has mentioned web design. As it happens I am in the process of deliberating whether to go back to vista( please don't sigh ) the reason being is that I am tired of trying to check my web site looks ok in the many versions of IE and its becoming a real pain because it's difficult in linux. Oh yes I tried the usual - wine IE4Linux and obviously the virtual pc route. Its just more hassle . Problem is . . . I love Ubuntu, its great, it's free and oh yeah it's free! It works for most business uses, doesnt crash, has a great looking interface and is secure. But . . when doing web design the problem we face is the proprietary MS format that the world seems to adhere to. I dare Mac users have the same problems. I keep thinking that if i have to install vista or xp in virtual box then whats the point, I'd just as well install the whole thing on a laptop

what are your thoughts?

Kapi
I feel you. I know how important it is to test your websites in all possible browsers (IE, Safari, Chrome...). And even if you write W3C compliant web pages (as others have pointed out), you still can't be sure you will get the desired effect on all browsers.

What I do is actually have a Windows XP virtual machine (using Sun VirtualBox -- really easy to set up and run). But I only use it when I finish a web design, to check the results and make any changes, I don't use it in the process of designing. For that I use Inkscape (which is just awesome after you get a little bit used to it) and gedit. That's really all you need :)

blade1950
April 18th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Ubuntu NewB - and LOVING IT!

For starters, drain my wallet, crash, bleed my bank account, crash, use up massive amounts of hard drive space, crash, suck cash, fill up my hard drives with malware – spyware – trojans – viruses, crash, force a reboot after updating, crash, take my money, force me to buy add on software just to watch DVD movies, crash, use a browser that even the Department of Homeland Security says not to use cause it’s unsecure, did I mention crash? You get the picture. Oh one more thing Windows does that Linux just cannot do - pay for Bill Gates’ multi-million dollar mansion.
:D

Tahakki
April 18th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Ubuntu NewB - and LOVING IT!

For starters, drain my wallet, crash, bleed my bank account, crash, use up massive amounts of hard drive space, crash, suck cash, fill up my hard drives with malware – spyware – trojans – viruses, crash, force a reboot after updating, crash, take my money, force me to buy add on software just to watch DVD movies, crash, use a browser that even the Department of Homeland Security says not to use cause it’s unsecure, did I mention crash? You get the picture. Oh one more thing Windows does that Linux just cannot do - pay for Bill Gates’ multi-million dollar mansion.
:D
Seconded. I switched from WinXP about a year ago because it eventually got so slow it became unusable.

Hey, I like installing stuff. :P

The constant 'Update this! This too! Me! Now!' got really annoying also.

jmtdstoc
April 18th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Linux does not have a consumer friendly, INTUITIVE, feature-full video editor that compares to Windows Movie Maker or Apple's iMovie09.

crl0901
April 18th, 2009, 08:09 PM
I miss Outlook 2007.

Mulenmar
April 18th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Run KOTOR 2 -- assuming it's XP, I tried every how-to on the net and couldn't get it to work on Vista.

It's an issue with Wine not liking the copy-protection. This seems to be a issue with Linux gaming -- it doesn't like communist-style software. (ie, you'll use what we, the government of the software, say you'll use and nothing else!!)

samurai_47
April 19th, 2009, 02:53 AM
Cost you a crap load of money?;)

ugriffin
April 19th, 2009, 03:54 AM
Game Maker 7. My windows partition fears the day that it's ported to linux. The day it is.... windows dies.

lkjjkl
April 19th, 2009, 04:39 AM
As a beginner my first impressions are that with xp if you have a problem you can solve it or find an answer faster (albleit not as good or as elegant a solution) without having to read 5 pages of forum posts. I'm really getting tired of searching and reading, searching and reading. I have better things to do.

oobe-feisty
April 19th, 2009, 06:31 AM
Bsod

s3a
April 19th, 2009, 06:38 AM
Windows can play MSN games and have MSN video conferences. I would mention actual video games, but Linux is not extremely weak when it comes to that. Other than that, I think GNU/Linux is very stable, secure, fast and convenient but I really, really want to have pidgin or some similar application allow me to have a full video conference over msn!

calvinps
April 19th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Windoze can slag people off with numerous errors, especially the Blue Screen of Death
Windoze can catch viruses a lot more easily
Windoze can slow people's computers down a lot
Windoze can eventually muck up your system, in turn requiring you to reformat your hard drive, and you would have to reinstall it.

intrr
April 20th, 2009, 12:03 AM
Browse the web without needing a supercomputer.

lenamtl
April 21st, 2009, 06:23 PM
I'm new to Linux (only 1 week), so it is normal I compare both of them.

It's take more time to setup local web server with Linux because of directory rights. Installation went ok but configuration take more time.

Also video and music seems to need special configuration, installation and conversion.

I really like Ubuntu I guess in few weeks I will be more confortable.

Ambly
May 8th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Get my money. (LOL)
Ploblems, antivirus, firewall, etc.

I dont use for games, use my ps3 OS mode instead.

iamleaf
May 8th, 2009, 06:32 PM
Ubuntu pretty much is the deal for me. I just need Photoshop to work really bad. Also, if it doesn't depend on an internet connection so much. I mean my friends would love to use ubuntu, just that its so dependent on the connection...and they hardly get one (we're in a part of the world where everything is rare - even internet... yeah sounds hard to believe...) but you can't really put any blame on the fact because first of all, the community is what makes ubuntu Ubuntu, and damn this forum has helped me **** loads!(more exclamation marks here)

plus there's always more awesome shite to discover what you can do with Ubuntu with an internet connection...

I really really really miss Photoshop though. I don't think Gimp is anywhere close to it.

Znupi
May 8th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Why do you need an internet connection for Ubuntu? You just need a CD, which you can get free from Canonical (including shipping). It even comes with Office so you don't need any extra software. The only things you would need an internet connection for would be updating your system and installing software (for which you need a connection on all current OSes). If you really want to install some software but don't have an internet connection just go to a friend's house / internet cafe and download some .deb's. :)

vernonrj
May 9th, 2009, 01:04 AM
I might as well put some of my thoughts in here.
First off, I have yet to see anything like the System Restore function on Linux. That's a biggie. Windows also has a large market share, which means that it will run on just about any new hardware, mostly flawlessly. The higher market share also means more access to games and programs. As for security, that seems to be variable user-to-user. I personally haven't had any virus trouble on Windows, but I've heard enough horror stories to be careful. The biggest thing is that Windows is very user-friendly. Most people just want something that's easy to use, and I personally think that Windows really does that well.

oldsoundguy
May 9th, 2009, 03:32 AM
I might as well put some of my thoughts in here.
First off, I have yet to see anything like the System Restore function on Linux. That's a biggie.
Yes it does, it is called re-boot and select the repair option. Very seldom needed as most will opt for a quick reset. (grALT/Print Screen/K)

Windows also has a large market share, which means that it will run on just about any new hardware, mostly flawlessly.
This is IF the HARDWARE MAKER keeps the drivers updated. (Windows does NOT). Remember you have to go on a search on line and to the manufacturers for updated drivers for your Windows machine at regular intervals as they do NOT come down the line on the updates from Redmomd.
Outfits like Creative will let the drivers expire without renewal to sell more hardware.

The higher market share also means more access to games and programs.
Games are one thing, but there are more FREE programs and just MORE programs in general for Linux. Just look at the list in your package manager!

As for security, that seems to be variable user-to-user. I personally haven't had any virus trouble on Windows, but I've heard enough horror stories to be careful.
There are NO malware files in the wild capable of attacking a Linux desktop or laptopcomputer . (there are over 1,000,000 malware files targeting Windows.) The only Linux malware files are those that attach to SERVERS that in turn attack WINDOWS computers in the network. (the Linux computers remain immune.)

The biggest thing is that Windows is very user-friendly.
Not when you have to take a week just to find where the "service" files are located in Vista .. XP was much easier to use, and a brief run through on Windows 7 has shown me that they tried to get it right .. close.

Most people just want something that's easy to use, and I personally think that Windows really does that well.
If you take a few minutes to UNLEARN your bad habits and ideas and approach Linux with an OPEN MIND (something a lot of Windows users/fanatics do NOT have), it is EASIER to learn.

Having said this, there IS a place for Windows still, but basically to be used OFF LINE where it can remain protected, safe and warm. Fine for games or a media controller or a print server or a file server or a video instruction computer or for running those very few Windows program that have not been equaled or surpassed by FOSS programs (IE ADOBE right now.)

I run both platforms .. each has their job and the workhorse it LINUX, hands down.

dearmrdear
May 9th, 2009, 03:58 AM
I love Ubuntu. I particularly like the price and availability of programs. My skills with the terminal and file structure is getting better every day, BUT when any problem arises it'll take you about 3 days of banging away at the cli and bouncing between forum posts to get anywhere. I won't give up, Linux offers to much of what I like.

iamleaf
May 9th, 2009, 05:00 AM
Why do you need an internet connection for Ubuntu? You just need a CD, which you can get free from Canonical (including shipping). It even comes with Office so you don't need any extra software. The only things you would need an internet connection for would be updating your system and installing software (for which you need a connection on all current OSes). If you really want to install some software but don't have an internet connection just go to a friend's house / internet cafe and download some .deb's. :)

Thats too much hassle. And plus you need to update it like everyday, and once you have a problem with anything, you need the forums xD

Znupi
May 9th, 2009, 10:15 AM
You don't need to update it everyday, why would you? The system is perfectly stable and working without any updates. And about the forums: what do you do when you have a problem with Windows? You search the Internet. Thus, it's the same thing.
Also, if you just use it for normal stuff (like office, music, videos etc.), you will not run into any problems at all.

duf
May 9th, 2009, 01:28 PM
Why not put the question the orher way around:

"What can Linux do (or do better) that Windows can't?"

monsterstack
May 9th, 2009, 01:35 PM
Why not put the question the orher way around:

"What can Linux do (or do better) that Windows can't?"

Say for instance you would like to install 500 applications at the same time. That might take you a while on Windows. You'd have to go to google, find the programmes, find the download pages and such; or alternatively go to some store and spend spend spend. It would probably take a considerable amount of time, possibly days, to find and install it all. Not to mention multiple reboots. How might one do the same in Linux?


sudo apt-get install akregator amarok amarok-common apport-qt ark cdrdao dolphin dontzap dragonplayer exiv2 foomatic-db-gutenprint gdebi-kde gnupg-agent gtk2-engines-qtcurve gwenview hpijs-ppds ijsgutenprint install-package jockey-kde k3b k3b-data kaddressbook kamera kate kde-icons-oxygen kde-printer-applet kde-style-qtcurve kde-window-manager kde-zeroconf kdebase-bin kdebase-data kdebase-plasma kdebase-runtime kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 kdebase-runtime-data kdebase-runtime-data-common kdebase-workspace-bin kdebase-workspace-data kdebase-workspace-libs4+5 kdebluetooth kdegraphics-strigi-plugins kdelibs-bin kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a kdelibs5 kdelibs5-data kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kdepasswd kdepim-kresources kdepim-strigi-plugins kdepim-wizards kdepimlibs-data kdepimlibs5 kdeplasma-addons kdeplasma-addons-data kdesudo kdm kfind khelpcenter4 klipper kmag kmail kmix kmousetool knotes konqueror konqueror-nsplugins konqueror-plugin-searchbar konsole kontact kopete korganizer kpackagekit krdc krfb ksnapshot ksysguard ksysguardd ksystemlog ktimetracker ktorrent ktorrent-data kubuntu-artwork-usplash kubuntu-default-settings kubuntu-desktop kubuntu-docs kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts kuser kvkbd kwalletmanager language-selector-qt libakonadiprivate1 libao2 libaudio2 libavahi-qt3-1 libboost-program-options1.35.0 libclucene0ldbl libdbus-qt-1-1c2 libeet1 libexiv2-5 libflac++6 libgeoip1 libk3b3 libk3b3-extracodecs libkcddb4 libkdecorations4 libkdepim4 libkexiv2-7 libkholidays4 libkipi6 libkleo4 libkonq5 libkonq5-templates libkpgp4 libksieve4 libkwineffects1 libloudmouth1-0 liblua50 liblualib50 libmad0 libmimelib4 libmodplug0c2 libmpcdec3 libmsn0.1 libmysqlclient15off libokularcore1 libpackagekit-glib11 libpackagekit-qt11 libphonon4 libplasma3 libpoppler-qt4-3 libpq5 libqca2 libqca2-plugin-ossl libqedje0 libqimageblitz4 libqt3-mt libqt4-assistant libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-designer libqt4-help libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-qt3support libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-mysql libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg libqt4-test libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libqtcore4 libqtgui4 libqzion0 libraptor1 librasqal1 librdf0 libsearchclient0 libsoprano4 libstreamanalyzer0 libstreams0 libstrigihtmlgui0 libstrigiqtdbusclient0 libvncserver0 libxcb-shape0 libxcb-shm0 libxcb-xv0 libxine1 libxine1-bin libxine1-console libxine1-misc-plugins libxine1-x libzip1 mysql-common okular okular-extra-backends openoffice.org-kde openoffice.org-style-crystal oxygen-cursor-theme packagekit packagekit-backend-apt phonon phonon-backend-xine pinentry-gtk2 pinentry-qt4 plasma-widget-network-manager plasma-widget-quickaccess python-dev python-kde4 python-packagekit python-plasma python-qt4 python-qt4-common python-qt4-dbus python-sip4 python2.6-dev qt4-qtconfig quassel quassel-data raptor-utils redland-utils software-properties-kde soprano-daemon speedcrunch strigi-client strigi-daemon system-config-printer-kde systemsettings ttf-dejavu ttf-dejavu-extra update-manager-kde update-notifier-kde

Is that something Linux can do better than Windows?

tsali
May 9th, 2009, 04:13 PM
Here's one for ya...

I have an older low resource laptop that I thought I'd try Xubuntu on.

Given that Windows networking is essential the standard eveybody works from, I was surprised to find that Xubuntu has no native ability to browse SMB shares.

There doesn't appear to be an acceptable workaround.

It's this kind of stuff that pisses me off and makes me want to believe that an 8-year old Windows operating system (XP) is better than anything linux can offer...

gjoellee
May 9th, 2009, 04:18 PM
Re: What can Windows do that Linux can't?
-Get a virus which will connect you to a botnet for about a week then it destroys your computers BIOS, and you got that virus visiting a website!

Bigneil
May 9th, 2009, 09:37 PM
i have been using ubuntu almost exclusively for the last year, and i think it is BRILLIANT. Sure, it takes a bit of getting used to if you have only ever used windows before, and some of the software is a bit cookie sometimes, but it really is very good. The only thing i sometimes use windows for is my sony walkman, it must have windows to transfer music and doesn't work under wine, I view this as sony's fault for not including support for anything other than windows.:(

The only thing i would change in ubuntu if i knew how, would be to make networking to other computers for file sharing easier. i once came here in the forum and asked about it, several people were kind enough to try and help me out. but i just didn't understand the process or the terminology. Which is a reflection of my lack of computing knoledge more than anything.


and i would have to say that Ubuntu has the best support network available for any operating system EVER!

Thanks Ubuntu forum, :)

Tibuda
May 9th, 2009, 11:14 PM
Here's one for ya...

I have an older low resource laptop that I thought I'd try Xubuntu on.

Given that Windows networking is essential the standard eveybody works from, I was surprised to find that Xubuntu has no native ability to browse SMB shares.

There doesn't appear to be an acceptable workaround.

It's this kind of stuff that pisses me off and makes me want to believe that an 8-year old Windows operating system (XP) is better than anything linux can offer...

Nautilus (Gnome file browser) does not need any tweaking to browse SMB, but for Thunar check thi thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=304131

tsali
May 10th, 2009, 12:07 AM
Nautilus (Gnome file browser) does not need any tweaking to browse SMB, but for Thunar check thi thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=304131

I've been through that thread. If you look at the end of it, you'll see that it doesn't offer an acceptable workaround.

Mounting the network share using smbfuse? Are you kidding me?

Znupi
May 10th, 2009, 11:02 AM
I've been through that thread. If you look at the end of it, you'll see that it doesn't offer an acceptable workaround.

Mounting the network share using smbfuse? Are you kidding me?
No one is kidding you. I used to mount SMB shares like that all the time (now I use ssh/sftp, way better). Not only it's more transparent but you actually get write access if you do it right AND you can access the remote files from a terminal. You get lots of advantages by mounting SMB shares rather than using some more particular way of doing it (like gvfs which nautilus uses). And, it's easy :) it took me half an hour at most the first time.

fela
May 10th, 2009, 11:56 AM
Personally, I think playing full screen games such as CoD and Crysis etc. should stop fairly early on in life (definitely before you've left Uni). Then it should stop at the odd solitaire game.

So that leaves only a few oddball video editing effects (Cinelerra is a good basic video editor for Linux, you can probably compare it to Premiere elements), a few Photo touch-up filters (doubtless you can get them as plugins for the GIMP, and maybe a few top quality apps such as Flash (I do miss that in Linux). I know there's a version of Maya for Linux, and maybe Autocad and 3DS Max aswell.

So, if you discount games, which you should if you're serious about using computers (which you'd have to be to use Linux IMHO), then there really isn't THAT much that Linux can't do that Windows can. Couple that with all of Linux's advantages over Windows, and Linux looks like a pretty nice option for alot of people.

Sure, there'll always be Professional Video editors and such that need their windows partition (or Mac OS) until their apps get ported (or better: rewritten) for Linux, and maybe a few lifeless nerds that need it for their virtual armies and MMORPGS etc. (you get the idea), but all I'm saying is that, on the whole, most people can do just fine with Linux if they put their minds to it.

I prefer to keep Windows in my Virtualbox "cage", to stop it getting out of hand.

ok_dr
May 10th, 2009, 10:23 PM
In my case, can't use some tv viewing programs like TVU player which have no linux versions.
Can't install and use some commercial CD's I need like some dictionaries, books or professional atlases etc which have only Windows versions.
Can't get to use my internal mic which is almost inaudible, seems to be a common problem to which no one can find a solution in many threads I've seen and audio is much lower than in windows though audible.
It has many upsides though but for the above-mentioned I've got to stick with double booting.

georgegerm
May 12th, 2009, 02:55 AM
Personally, I think playing full screen games such as CoD and Crysis etc. should stop fairly early on in life (definitely before you've left Uni). Then it should stop at the odd solitaire game. ---quoted

51 years old, good job and great family, and i do play online and offline games such as cod etc.
personally i could not disagree with YOU more.....
when the games are written for ubu or mint or they run with wine or something i would ditch $windows$ in a second
but since that is not the purpose, or philosophy of linux and it will not happen, then the games, and other simple and great software require for me a $windows$ partition
but my main point is lets be fair to gamers here it is not a matter of opinion it is a simply a reality
p.s. i am part a group of old dudes who play together and we are good :guitar:
:guitar:

Znupi
May 12th, 2009, 10:12 AM
Personally, I think playing full screen games such as CoD and Crysis etc. should stop fairly early on in life (definitely before you've left Uni). Then it should stop at the odd solitaire game. ---quoted

51 years old, good job and great family, and i do play online and offline games such as cod etc.
personally i could not disagree with YOU more.....
when the games are written for ubu or mint or they run with wine or something i would ditch $windows$ in a second
but since that is not the purpose, or philosophy of linux and it will not happen, then the games, and other simple and great software require for me a $windows$ partition
but my main point is lets be fair to gamers here it is not a matter of opinion it is a simply a reality
p.s. i am part a group of old dudes who play together and we are good :guitar:
:guitar:
I think gaming on the PC is pretty outdated. If you really want to play high-quality games with extreme graphics and physics and all the bells and whistles, get a video console. They're relatively cheap nowadays (especially the Xbox360) and if you buy one, you can then spend less money on your PC because you don't need super powerful hardware and you don't need Windows. The only downside I see to consoles is that you don't have keyboard+mouse, but I'm sure you get used to the gamepad pretty quick.

fela
May 12th, 2009, 01:38 PM
51 years old and playing Call of Duty? I guess I did need that laugh :)

But next time when posting please be SERIOUS! :guitar:

Znupi
May 12th, 2009, 02:18 PM
He was serious. I know a math teacher at a university who plays the PS3 all day. He also has a PSP.

Giant Speck
May 12th, 2009, 05:20 PM
51 years old and playing Call of Duty? I guess I did need that laugh :)

But next time when posting please be SERIOUS! :guitar:

My mother played World of Warcraft for over a year and a half when she was 49 and played Call of Duty for a few months when she was 47. She's almost 50 and she still plays computer games.

It's not that uncommon.

Nathan.Flow
May 12th, 2009, 06:56 PM
Well if you take out the fact that most of the consumer market is windows based, and company who wants to make a dime will cater to the market demand.

Then there's nothing window can do that Linux can't.

Given enough time and resources. IE the entire Linux community focused on one version of Linux, then Linux will crush windows with in a year.

However that's not going to happen because Linux is all about verity. This makes it difficult for company to program for Linux because their so many different variants. ](*,)

Source code you say... Why would I release the source code for something I'm trying to sell you? How will I make money? people already Illegally download music, movies, TV shows. They'll just do the same with the product your trying to sell.

Their was an attempt to intergreat a copy protection system. Allowing some one to resistor a product to them specifically and as long as they had the password they could use it any where at any time, just just on one system at a time. Don't know what happened to that.

So to answer you question...
Consistency. :(
A developer knows that one Windows is very closed and similar in code to every other versions of Windows. Allowing the company to keep their product save and their pockets full of money.

fela
May 12th, 2009, 08:51 PM
He was serious. I know a math teacher at a university who plays the PS3 all day. He also has a PSP.

Right...

Znupi
May 13th, 2009, 06:37 PM
Well if you take out the fact that most of the consumer market is windows based, and company who wants to make a dime will cater to the market demand.

Then there's nothing window can do that Linux can't.

Given enough time and resources. IE the entire Linux community focused on one version of Linux, then Linux will crush windows with in a year.

However that's not going to happen because Linux is all about verity. This makes it difficult for company to program for Linux because their so many different variants. ](*,)

Source code you say... Why would I release the source code for something I'm trying to sell you? How will I make money? people already Illegally download music, movies, TV shows. They'll just do the same with the product your trying to sell.

Their was an attempt to intergreat a copy protection system. Allowing some one to resistor a product to them specifically and as long as they had the password they could use it any where at any time, just just on one system at a time. Don't know what happened to that.

So to answer you question...
Consistency. :(
A developer knows that one Windows is very closed and similar in code to every other versions of Windows. Allowing the company to keep their product save and their pockets full of money.
Not quite true. Although different distributions have different packaging systems (see apt, yum, emerge, pacman, ...), that doesn't mean that a binary file (an executable, if you will) will not run on all of these distributions. If a software vendor wants to make closed-source software, they can easily do so by only distributing binaries and people will package them for the various distros. If they want to make paid software, they can work a little extra on an installer (on which they would have to work on for Windows, too) and provide that to its users. Actually, that's what a lot of companies do. Look at Skype, Opera, Adobe Flash, and so on.

What bugs me the most, though, are drivers. Why will hardware manufacturers not make their drivers open source, so that people can compile them on all architectures and use them any way they want? It's not like if you have the drivers' sources you can make your own device and sell it, or steal anything. And this would also save the manufacturer's time, as he would only need to make open source drivers for Windows, the Linux community would port them in an instant. I don't understand why hardware manufacturers are so keen on not disclosing their drivers' sources, maybe it would show some company secrets, but I don't know..

Giant Speck
May 13th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Right...

Why is that difficult to believe?

Or do you seem to think that once a person turns forty, they are no longer capable of learning new things?

Znupi
May 13th, 2009, 07:22 PM
Why is that difficult to believe?

Or do you seem to think that once a person turns forty, they are no longer capable of learning new things?
Don't feed the trolls...