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View Full Version : How would you convince a Gentoo user to switch to Ubuntu ?



whoopsbob
May 3rd, 2007, 06:43 AM
Hi all,

I've been using Linux for several years, and Gentoo for that last year and a half. I'm pretty happy with the experience I've had with it. I love the package manager, the leanness of my machine, the community, the control it gives me over my system, and everything I've learned about Linux that I wouldn't have with other distros. (The long compile times and those three hours I spent getting my wifi usb stick to work not so much.) I basically spend all of my time at the command line or in Firefox or Thunderbird, so editing text files is not an issue for me. Neither are things like kernel compilations. Though I don't like the term, I guess I am what people call a "power user".

I've played around with Ubuntu for a little bit, though not much. But I've heard a lot of good things about the distro, and I'm thinking of trying it out.

But I really like Gentoo. And I've sort of been brainwashed into the "Ubuntu is only good for new Linux users" mentality by hearing that all the time.

So, can you convince me to seriously give Ubuntu a try ? Convince me that I won't be losing any of the control I have now, that it'll be a more pleasant experience, etc.

tbroderick
May 3rd, 2007, 06:54 AM
I wouldn't. Use whatever you like. Ubuntu is nice, but if you are satisfied with Gentoo, then don't bother switching.

igknighted
May 3rd, 2007, 06:59 AM
Hi all,

I've been using Linux for several years, and Gentoo for that last year and a half. I'm pretty happy with the experience I've had with it. I love the package manager, the leanness of my machine, the community, the control it gives me over my system, and everything I've learned about Linux that I wouldn't have with other distros. (The long compile times and those three hours I spent getting my wifi usb stick to work not so much.) I basically spend all of my time at the command line or in Firefox or Thunderbird, so editing text files is not an issue for me. Neither are things like kernel compilations. Though I don't like the term, I guess I am what people call a "power user".

I've played around with Ubuntu for a little bit, though not much. But I've heard a lot of good things about the distro, and I'm thinking of trying it out.

But I really like Gentoo. And I've sort of been brainwashed into the "Ubuntu is only good for new Linux users" mentality by hearing that all the time.

So, can you convince me to seriously give Ubuntu a try ? Convince me that I won't be losing any of the control I have now, that it'll be a more pleasant experience, etc.

I would recommend you try it, but I doubt you will like Ubuntu. It is not lean, nor does it give you the customizing options that Gentoo does. If you are looking for a new distro because of the upkeep Gentoo takes (and compile time especially), you might look at Arch Linux. Lean and quick and it lets you build your own config files.

Ubuntu is a distro that loads everything. The terminal screen will fill up with the modules loaded at boot time. If you want you can build from scratch by starting with a server install (skip the lamp part), then adding everything on top. But if you plan to go this route, I would steer you towards Debian. Debian or Arch sound like better fits for you.

FoolsGold
May 3rd, 2007, 07:01 AM
Simple: You want to spend you life TWEAKING Linux, or actually USING Linux?

If it's the latter, use Ubuntu. There's only so much time in the world; be efficient. :)

kvonb
May 3rd, 2007, 07:02 AM
I have a big gun and I'm not afraid to use it!

:lolflag:

karellen
May 3rd, 2007, 07:02 AM
why would I? :confused:

loell
May 3rd, 2007, 07:07 AM
not sure what control you're talking about, but you're pretty much on top of everything in ubuntu.
gentoo users needs no convincing. after all, gentoo is a great base and distribution. an ubuntu user can only say is "Try it".:popcorn:

fuscia
May 3rd, 2007, 07:07 AM
is this a trick question?

karellen
May 3rd, 2007, 07:14 AM
Simple: You want to spend you life TWEAKING Linux, or actually USING Linux?

If it's the latter, use Ubuntu. There's only so much time in the world; be efficient. :)

so very true :)

whoopsbob
May 3rd, 2007, 07:24 AM
Hi,

This is not a trick question.

I realize that "tweaking vs using" is probably the crux of the argument. Obviously the choice is a false dichotomy, so I'm looking for something similar but more substantiative.

fuscia
May 3rd, 2007, 08:02 AM
sometimes, after using openbox (which i love) for a while, i just get bored with it. right now, i'm bored with it, so i've been using kde with amarok and kmail and all the trimmings instead of xmms and pine, etc. i imagine using a 'do it for you' type of distro would be a nice change of pace from the 'grow your own food and make your own clothes' approach of gentoo. otherwise, i don't see much point in switching.

jpkotta
May 3rd, 2007, 08:05 AM
I used to use Gentoo. I got sick of the constant tweaking that had to be done (I didn't really mind the compilation). I also didn't like that it was always bleeding edge. Ubuntu is great because most things work out of the box, and if they don't, the tweaks are minimal. It has a good balance in regards to update frequency.

I've found that the Debian package system is better in most ways than Portage. You can even build packages from source with little effort (though doing it for the whole system would be ridiculous). More commonly, I'll build something from source that isn't in the repos and put it in the package managment system with the checkinstall program.

The problems with Ubuntu (and Debian) are that they run a bit slower (but not much). Desktop installs are pretty bloated, but do a server install like igknighted suggested and it's fairly lean.

I liked Gentoo, and I learned a lot with it, but it was just too much hassle. I recommend you install Ubuntu on an empty partition and play with it for a week. I think the test is, is it easier to tweak Ubuntu to hopefully work how you want, or is it easer to tweak Gentoo (because it must be tweaked everywhere, but you almost always end up with what you want).

leg
May 3rd, 2007, 08:18 AM
Hi,

This is not a trick question.

I realize that "tweaking vs using" is probably the crux of the argument. Obviously the choice is a false dichotomy, so I'm looking for something similar but more substantiative.
Hi, I have done what you are considering and switched to ubuntu after using Gentoo for nearly two years. I use this distro as my day to day work horse now and use Gentoo for the things I like using it for. In some ways the question is almost pointless and you should know better. You will only answer the question yourself and I think you know that really. If you are seriously interested install and see what happens. As a Gentoo user you should be more than happy to re-partition and dual boot.

justin whitaker
May 3rd, 2007, 08:27 AM
Hi all,

I've been using Linux for several years, and Gentoo for that last year and a half. I'm pretty happy with the experience I've had with it. I love the package manager, the leanness of my machine, the community, the control it gives me over my system, and everything I've learned about Linux that I wouldn't have with other distros. (The long compile times and those three hours I spent getting my wifi usb stick to work not so much.) I basically spend all of my time at the command line or in Firefox or Thunderbird, so editing text files is not an issue for me. Neither are things like kernel compilations. Though I don't like the term, I guess I am what people call a "power user".

I've played around with Ubuntu for a little bit, though not much. But I've heard a lot of good things about the distro, and I'm thinking of trying it out.

But I really like Gentoo. And I've sort of been brainwashed into the "Ubuntu is only good for new Linux users" mentality by hearing that all the time.

So, can you convince me to seriously give Ubuntu a try ? Convince me that I won't be losing any of the control I have now, that it'll be a more pleasant experience, etc.

The funny thing is, underneath, Ubuntu is every bit as malleable as Debian, and Gentoo, You can do a server/console install, put a light WM in there, start tweaking things....you know, like Gentoo.

Really, what the rest of the people said here is right: there is no earthly reason for someone to go Ubuntu from Gentoo, SuSE, or any other distribution if you are satisfied with it. It's all Linux, so it's all good.

Bavo
May 3rd, 2007, 09:09 AM
Simple: You want to spend you life TWEAKING Linux, or actually USING Linux?

If it's the latter, use Ubuntu. There's only so much time in the world; be efficient. :)

I think that this is the most accurate answer.
I started using Ubuntu instead of Gentoo because i just wanted to use my computer, not spending hours a week fixing and updating it.
Since i use ubuntu i only have to spend a few hours updating my computer every six months. (Thats because i like a clean install once in a while, otherwise i'd just have to upgrade and spend a lot less time on it.)

forrestcupp
May 3rd, 2007, 02:08 PM
I used Sabayon for a while, which is a Gentoo based distro. I thought portage was awesome. It was great just knowing that everything I installed was compiled just for my system. I thought I was being a power user. As I waited and waited for programs to download, configure, compile, then install, I kept telling myself that with the speed gains I will get from having custom-compiled software, it will have all been worth it in the end. Then I just realized one day that the one second shaved off of load times and the unnoticeable speed gains in my software wasn't really worth the extra hours put into installing the software. So I went back to Ubuntu with the quick binary installs. I can't really explain it, but my system is actually slightly snappier with Ubuntu than it was in Sabayon.

But if you're happy with Gentoo, why change?

Edit:

Of course you can compile programs in Ubuntu, too. I think you can even use something called apt-build.

Dragonbite
May 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM
I moved from Gentoo to Linux and they're both good systems.

When I moved to Ubuntu, it was because I wanted something easy to setup and maintain (easy enough to teach my wife to run Synaptic once-in-a-while). The idea of setting up another Gentoo installation from beginning lost it's appeal after a while.

With Gentoo I had a lot of fun and learned a lot, even if it was just to become comfortable with the Command Line Interface (CLI). Unfortunately running it over dialup and compiling on a 500MHz P3 machine leaves lots of time to think to myself....

Gentoo is
Great means of learning how Linux works (recommend it for anybody who wants to learn more about Linux)
A great way to overcome that Command Line Interface (CLI) phobia
Veeery customizable to whatever your needs are (don't need a DE? Only want specific server software?)
Only problem I had with that was that you have to know what programs you need to do what you want.
Has a great community forum for getting answers
has Purple as it's signature color
Ubuntu is
Easy to setup and maintain
Good hardware detection (oops.. does that go under "Easy to setup..." ? )
Friendly Forums for answers and general chit-chat
Has earth-tones as it's signature color
Can be bought installed on a Dell computer (soon)


Would Sabayon be the perfect middle-ground, combining the goodness of Gentoo with the ease of getting started like Ubuntu? I haven't tried it (yet) but it is on my short list of possible alternatives if I get bored of Ubuntu.

fuscia
May 3rd, 2007, 02:25 PM
Would Sabayon be the perfect middle-ground, combining the goodness of Gentoo with the ease of getting started like Ubuntu? I haven't tried it (yet) but it is on my short list of possible alternatives if I get bored of Ubuntu.

sabayon takes too long to boot and installing packages takes forever in comparison to apt.

hartz
May 14th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I will echo much of the sentiment here about being able to just dive in and use Ubuntu without having to configure every little thing.

But I want to add something: I find that Ubuntu's package repositories are fairly up-to-date. I think this is a big plus - not only is everything set up and ready to use, but there is a broad base of extra software ready for download-and-use with just a few clicks needed.

tgalati4
May 14th, 2007, 04:13 PM
I'm sure someone has done speed comparisons between Gentoo and Ubuntu. I would think that the only reason to go to Gentoo is if you have a specific application (perhaps custom written) that runs much slower in Ubuntu. Then it would make sense to spend the time to custom-compile your entire OS to optimize your application speed.

My gut feel is that with generic Intel, 32-bit hardware, there is not much speed difference between Gentoo and Ubuntu.

One thing that I'm fairly confident: you won't spend the time to put a brown desktop theme on Gentoo.

maagimies
May 14th, 2007, 04:24 PM
I wouldn't, in my opinion Arch Linux fits an ex-Gentoo user better than Ubuntu. PKGBUILD's resemble ebuilds quite a lot if you ever want to make your own packages, or download them from AUR.
As for how this makes Ubuntu not a good choice, creating proper packages in Debian/Ubuntu takes much more effort than writing a simple ebuild or PKGBUILD, and doesn't offer any gains above them.

rich.bradshaw
May 14th, 2007, 04:28 PM
If you change to Ubuntu, you could help develop and improve it for everyone using it.

If you stay using Gentoo, you improve and develop only for yourself.

juxtaposed
May 14th, 2007, 08:38 PM
Ubuntu isn't just for beginners - I think it is great for anyone up to uber power user. It is great if you want to be able to do things with little or not tinkering, but it might not give the performance of gentoo.

moffatt666
May 14th, 2007, 08:42 PM
As has been said, if you switch you can help-out with Ubuntu's development which would probably suit you as an ex-Gentoo user. Other than that, use what you like.

FyreBrand
May 14th, 2007, 08:46 PM
sabayon takes too long to boot and installing packages takes forever in comparison to apt.Agreed. Sabayon does a few things nice, but it's already preconfigured and as bloated as anything else maybe even Fedora.


The funny thing is, underneath, Ubuntu is every bit as malleable as Debian, and Gentoo, You can do a server/console install, put a light WM in there, start tweaking things....you know, like Gentoo.

Really, what the rest of the people said here is right: there is no earthly reason for someone to go Ubuntu from Gentoo, SuSE, or any other distribution if you are satisfied with it. It's all Linux, so it's all good.This hits it on the head for me. Well said.

prizrak
May 14th, 2007, 11:00 PM
Why would you bother convincing another Linux user to switch distros anyway? Gentoo users tend to like customizeability of the thing otherwise they wouldn't be Gentoo users, so why not just let him use what he likes.

pirothezero
May 15th, 2007, 12:07 AM
My first real attempt on linux was with a gentoo install about 2 years ago, before that I had only dabbled with slackware. Anyway, I came to the conclusion after leaving windows that I didn't really want to be a power user/guru at the os I was using. I am a programmer but I liked being able to forget about all the little details about windows and linux and just be a programmer. So much so that I stopped using gentoo went back to xp for a few months and finally tried ubuntu to the point of where now I just use it as a normal system. I hardly tweak anything on a system level and I feel at ease and relaxed because of it. It runs all my code perfectly, it's free and no compile time.

I am not trying to convince you, but thats my take on it and I second everyone thoughts about gentoo being great if you want to get dirty and learn about linux, but if you just want to use the computer to get your stuff done or kick back and relax and do what you want to do, I have yet to come across anything as close as Ubuntu does.

prizrak
May 15th, 2007, 02:15 PM
My first real attempt on linux was with a gentoo install about 2 years ago, before that I had only dabbled with slackware. Anyway, I came to the conclusion after leaving windows that I didn't really want to be a power user/guru at the os I was using. I am a programmer but I liked being able to forget about all the little details about windows and linux and just be a programmer. So much so that I stopped using gentoo went back to xp for a few months and finally tried ubuntu to the point of where now I just use it as a normal system. I hardly tweak anything on a system level and I feel at ease and relaxed because of it. It runs all my code perfectly, it's free and no compile time.

I am not trying to convince you, but thats my take on it and I second everyone thoughts about gentoo being great if you want to get dirty and learn about linux, but if you just want to use the computer to get your stuff done or kick back and relax and do what you want to do, I have yet to come across anything as close as Ubuntu does.

My point was more or less that a Gentoo user wouldn't be afraid of trying out other distro's and doesn't need to be convinced to switch to something else. I got a friend who went from Gentoo to OpenSuSE and is pretty happy about it. I don't believe in convincing Linux users to distro hop, they are aware of all the alternatives and don't need any extra encouragement.

Quake
May 15th, 2007, 04:33 PM
I tried installing Gentoo about 3 years ago but... my attempt was unsuccessful so... I just gave up :P

But seriously, I think Ubuntu is like Windows now. A large user base means more support. Take the programs that are not available in the repositories for exemple: you can download the Ubuntu .deb, double click on it and install it. So I guess, in Ubuntu, you don't tweak your system too much and you don't use the cli as much.

Yes, I stil need to tweak my system because samba doesn't work yet *GRRR* but other than that... I have a workable system.

Luggy
May 15th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I don't think I'd convice a Gentoo user to switch to Ubuntu.
Well, not unless the Gentoo user was getting sick and tired of Gentoo.

Power users like you like the 3+ hours of install, compiling everything from source and being able and requried to do everything to run your systems.

People who are getting fed up with all the attention and time it takes to get Gentoo up and running I would recommend Ubuntu because it takes care of a lot of stuff for you.

There is nothing wrong with either Ubuntu or Gentoo, it's just a differnt flavour of Linux. If you don't like one you can try another. Gentoo isn't my thing but that doesn't mean it's bad or that Ubuntu is better then it.

BarfBag
May 15th, 2007, 05:59 PM
Ubuntu is probably going to bore you do death. I recommend Arch Linux. As somebody who's used both Gentoo and Arch, Arch is somehow faster. You don't have to compile (you can if you want) and it has a great package manager.