hd-dvd fiasco

[linuxgeekery]

what do you think?

also, digg has gone crazy about this: attached is the number of articles from the first page...
The second and third pages are also like this (with more!) :lolflag:

[Sunflower1970]

Ugh. I've seen this just about all day on there.

It was kind of funny at first, but now it's just annoying as Sanjaya was on Amerian Idol

I want to say, now, Who cares? By now, anyone who wants that number has it, and if they weren't lucky enough to get it by now, someone somewhere has it tucked away and they'll be sharing it in IRC's emails, IM's and whatnot.

[DoctorMO]

please explain this from the start so us 'living under a rock' guys can understand.

[aidanr]

well this is what happens when you tick off 15,000 internet users by removing the second most popular digg story of all time

bad move by both the mpaa and digg

keep in mind that the original posting on the doom9 forum from february is still up

[steven8]

please explain this from the start so us 'living under a rock' guys can understand.

I too, am a 'living under a rock' guy. Just exactly what was removed from Digg?

[FoolsGold]

The HD-DVD master key (the key you need to crack everything AFAIK) has been found, so the key is being printed like crazy around the net so that there's absolutely no chance of it being removed entirely from the net by the MPAA or whoever. :)

[Phatfiddler]

What FoolsGold said, plus a bit more. Digg receives funds from HD DVD and so they not only removed the code posts, but IP banned the users that started these posts. To show that users will not tolerate censorship, Digg users are posting the code as comments in every possible topic, and creating numerous topics using the number to resist the IP bans. Digg, arguing that the number cannot be displayed, banned the users as previously mentioned. To battle this, users are posting ways to get around this, such as posting the MD5 sum of the code, writing haiku revealing the code, and various other methods.

[KiwiNZ]

Please do not post the Key on this site .

We have removed any to date .

If we keep them here it exposes the Forum to the risk of litigation. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter

[steven8]

What FoolsGold said, plus a bit more. Digg receives funds from HD DVD and so they not only removed the code posts, but IP banned the users that started these posts. To show that users will not tolerate censorship, Digg users are posting the code as comments in every possible topic, and creating numerous topics using the number to resist the IP bans.

Hoo-boy. I can't believe they actually thought it would never be discovered. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[steven8]

Please do not post the Key on this site .

We have removed any to date .

If we keep them here it exposes the Forum to the risk of litigation. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter

I wouldn't think of it. . . :lolflag:

[Kujen]

Hoo-boy. I can't believe they actually thought it would never be discovered. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Discovered? I believe they've had HD-DVD ads on Diggnation. It's no secret. Digg users are just being immature jackasses by spamming the site with this ****. Kevin and others have said their reasons for removing the stories already, and everyone needs to let it go.

[CSMatt]

History repeating itself. The community tried the same thing with the source code for DeCSS. The only difference this time is that the only thing distributed is a single key instead of lines of code.

[KiwiNZ]

I wouldn't think of it. . . :lolflag:


Of course you wouldn't :p

The same way I would click that big ban button I have :twisted::-k:-\"

[steven8]

Of course you wouldn't :p

The same way I would click that big ban button I have :twisted::-k:-\"

What big ban button might you be refering to, Mr. Kiwi. . .:KS

[cody50]

I don't see digg recovering from this. lots of their users are totally pissed off.

[Hex_Mandos]

I did something similar when Brazil blocked YouTube over the Daniella Ciccarelli incident, by uploading the video to other websites. I'll probably register the number's .com.ar domain name, or seed it to a few P2P networks.

[FoolsGold]

I've stuck a nice big copy of the numbers outside my cubicle at work. :)

[Sunflower1970]

I noticed a few Ubuntu Planet bloggers have posted the code as well...

http://planet.ubuntu.com/

I'm glad it's out there, but I've seen it so often today, I think I have it memorized...

[jiminycricket]

To people annoyed by this--

Digg is a social news site that thrives on user submitted stories. It's whole purpose is to connect people to news stories and generate ad revenue. By censoring these user submitted stores, it COMPLETELY UNDERMINES the site's main draw. Also, none of this "spamming" happened before Digg removed the posts today; it's a direct consequence of thosea ctoins. Previously, there had been the normal one to two posts about the key when it was released way back in February, and they weren't removed.

If you don't care, why are you still reading? Just try and watch your HD-DVDs or Blu Ray on Linux (without that very special key). Doing nothing is akin to saying, "The DMCA is a good law". The harsh restrictions on free speech are being felt by those Digg users. And as opposed to copyright, there's no benefit to consumers with that restriction.

What's next, posts to Digg being filtered one by one by *AA-approved moderators? :)

if there's anything that's negative about this, to me, it's that it overshadowed the Ubuntu-Dell announcement.

[linuxgeekery]

Please do not post the Key on this site .

We have removed any to date .

If we keep them here it exposes the Forum to the risk of litigation. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter

Notice I blacked out part of it (smart :mrgreen: )

EDIT: I love the "trivia game"

[Kujen]

To people annoyed by this--

Digg is a social news site that thrives on user submitted stories. It's whole purpose is to connect people to news stories and generate ad revenue. By censoring these user submitted stores, it COMPLETELY UNDERMINES the site's main draw. Also, none of this "spamming" happened before Digg removed the posts today; it's a direct consequence of thosea ctoins. Previously, there had been the normal one to two posts about the key when it was released way back in February, and they weren't removed.

If you don't care, why are you still reading? Just try and watch your HD-DVDs or Blu Ray on Linux (without that very special key). Doing nothing is akin to saying, "The DMCA is a good law". The harsh restrictions on free speech are being felt by those Digg users. And as opposed to copyright, there's no benefit to consumers with that restriction.

What's next, posts to Digg being filtered one by one by *AA-approved moderators? :)

if there's anything that's negative about this, to me, it's that it overshadowed the Ubuntu-Dell announcement.

What gives the users the right to post content that could get Digg in legal trouble, no matter what they think of the DMCA?

[jdong]

It is ridiculous that laws can be so stringent that certain numbers can't even be distributed freely.... However, given the rate of DMCA takedowns and legal actions I am seeing for that key, and the last round of this with DVD CSS, I totally understand why Kevin Rose is removing these -- for his own legal protection. If you would like to start a group of websites with that number all over it, do whatever you want. Just please don't do it at someone else's risk :)

[jiminycricket]

What gives the users the right to post content that could get Digg in legal trouble, no matter what they think of the DMCA?

Why should anyone protest when unjust laws are passed? :) Like saying, "Rosa Parks, get back to the front of that bus!"

The "right" is that digg is unmoderated (or was, until they took the DVD stories down). Google indexes and caches lots of illegal content too. BTW the biggest hub-ub is that Digg took HD-DVD sponsorship money (http://texyt.com/Digg+founders+took+HD-DVD+sponsorship+00071). That would explain why the earlier stories hadn't been removed, if the timelines matchup.

The only solution to this is
a) forced moderation of all Digg comments, thereby making Digg slow and useless

[jdong]

Why should anyone protest when unjust laws are passed? :) Like saying, "Rosa Parks, get back to the front of that bus!"
You are free to protest when unjust laws are passed, but you have no right to force others into your protest. Rosa parks can sit wherever she desires on the bus to make a statement, but she can't force another black person up to the front of the bus if that other person is unwilling to do it :)

[kvonb]

I don't understand why "controversial" web sites and pages don't just move their pages to hosts in China or Russia where they are free from the reaches of US laws!

[steven8]

I don't understand why "controversial" web sites and pages don't just move their pages to hosts in China or Russia where they are free from the reaches of US laws!

I was born and raised and still live in the US, and I wonder why our laws affect anyone in another country.

[DoctorMO]

Well yes and no, those countries are already experts at censorship too.

This is such funny news; we all knew it would happen but there you are.

[bobbybobington]

One thing's for sure, the next diggnation will be rather awkward.

[kvonb]

I was born and raised and still live in the US, and I wonder why our laws affect anyone in another country.

It's the power of politics, money (as in bribes and threats), and cowardice on the part of Governments like mine that bend and brown-nose to the US Government my friend!


.:rolleyes:.

[FoolsGold]

If you want, we can start a torrent of the numbers. I'll start seeding...

09

[steven8]

It's the power of politics, money (as in bribes and threats), and cowardice on the part of Governments like mine that bend and brown-nose to the US Government my friend!


.:rolleyes:.

When I was boy, I was SO proud to be an American. Maybe I just didn't know the truth then, or it is just such a shame what our government has turned us into. :frown:

[jiminycricket]

It's all due to WIPO and TRIPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_Trade-Related_Aspects_of_Intellectual_Property_Rights#Po st-TRIPs_expansionism); RMS has several articles about this on http://www.gnu.org It specifically states that governments must pass anti-circumvention laws (like the DMCA and then the EUCD, which is slightly 'better' but still a bad example) My gov't is also feeling the pressure from the US ambassadors and the WTO. They've tried to pass several bills with it but luckily haven't had the time to pass because of election timings.

BTW we're supposedly number 1 pirates in a specific week at a time when movie releases were low, or whatever according to the MPAA's smudged numbers (even those have come under attack, funnily enough)

[FoolsGold]

When I was boy, I was SO proud to be an American. Maybe I just didn't know the truth then, or it is just such a shame what our government has turned us into. :frown:
You were young and naive, no biggie. Governments have always been pricks, in one form or another.

Still seeding. Oh look, a peer!

F9

[jdong]

Alright guys, I'm shutting down you tracker and dropping all UDP packets. Please don't use ubuntuforums for your AACS key distribution creativity... take it elsewhere :)


Great, now I've gone and done it. Watch. when I refresh the front page I'm going to see it filled with the unmentionable.

[FoolsGold]

Alright guys, I'm shutting down you tracker and dropping all UDP packets. Please don't use ubuntuforums for your AACS key distribution creativity... take it elsewhere :)
I'm using DHT you fool! :)

Alright fine. It's a very difficult to find series of numbers, I doubt they can be found anywhere else on the net anyway... :KS

[jdong]

Hence the dropped all UDP packets part :).... As someone who has worked as a sysadmin on a school network, I'm pretty proficient at silencing bittorrent traffic :)

[joshuapurcell]

This whole episode is very interesting... I never thought something like this could adversely affect such big sites as Digg, Wikipedia, multple blog sites and other news sources, and be the major topic of conversation for Slashdot and other forums. I can't think of another situation like what is happening now really... it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[jdong]

The same kind of thing happened when DVD CSS was first cracked, with the DeCSS code. Some T-shirt manufacturers even got into legal hot waters for printing the code on a T-shirt.

[steven8]

This thread keeps toggling between locked and unlocked. What gives, JDong? :)

[jdong]

Hey, I'm not touching it :) So far everyone seems to be conducting themselves maturely and not spamming the thread/forum with the key for kicks.... so I have no problem with this thread being open unless it degenerates

[steven8]

Hey, I'm not touching it :) So far everyone seems to be conducting themselves maturely and not spamming the thread/forum with the key for kicks.... so I have no problem with this thread being open unless it degenerates

Hmm. Thought I saw a lock. Us. . .degenerate?! No way! :lolflag:

[jiminycricket]

Interesting to me is that Wikipedia has deleted all references to the key but more importantly, the event itself. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg#Criticism . Protected article, same with AACS, DMCA, and related articles. Absolutely nothing even though it's all over Google News.

[sleeperknight]

I think its just funny

[jiminycricket]

New blog from Kevin. http://blog.digg.com/


Today was an insane day. And as the founder of Digg, I just wanted to post my thoughts…

In building and shaping the site I’ve always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We’ve always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community. Occasionally we step in to remove stories that violate our terms of use (eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.). So today was a difficult day for us. We had to decide whether to remove stories containing a single code based on a cease and desist declaration. We had to make a call, and in our desire to avoid a scenario where Digg would be interrupted or shut down, we decided to comply and remove the stories with the code.

But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you’ve made it clear. You’d rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won’t delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.

Digg on,

Kevin

Now this is the message at digg.com (http://digg.com)


We'll be back shortly.

Digg will be down for a brief period, while we make some changes.
While not digging, the digg crew recommends:

[Kujen]

I gotta respect Kevin for that then. I have to say I've lost any respect for the Digg community though.

[FoolsGold]

I gotta respect Kevin for that then. I have to say I've lost any respect for the Digg community though.
Then your respect is misplaced. If it weren't for the Digg community revolting in the way they did, nothing would have been done. Kevin is reacting DUE to the actions of the Digg community, not because he necessarily wants to, so give them a little credit at least.

[steven8]

This is just like Microsoft. If we just sit here and say, "Well, that's the way things are. I'll never be able to change anything.", then we have no right to complain. We have to say things and make people aware. Like the Digg community. They stood up to be counted. No change happens without that in some measure.

[black_magician]

I've never seen an E-riot before. Digg is actually Out of Service right now. I think this whole thing was a bad move for EVERYONE. mpaa (up yours ya dicks) , digg (et tu brute?), the users (rabble rabble rabble! clog the tubes!). personally, I'd rather have no digg than a censored digg.

[aidanr]

I think Kevin may have just saved himself with that post, I'd rather see digg martyred then to bend over for these a**holes

[sleeperknight]

I've never seen an E-riot before.

really you should go to ytmnd, 4chan, even ebaumsworld they all do that

[steven8]

really you should go to ytmnd, 4chan, even ebaumsworld they all do that

A virtual riot? No real wounds? That's the way to do it! :)

[black_magician]

really you should go to ytmnd, 4chan, even ebaumsworld they all do that


hehe, the number is all over those sites too!

[Spr0k3t]

I'm wondering if someone from the HD-DVD group may have released this information so as to leg-up their failing attempts to overthrow Blu-Ray. Nevertheless, I'm going to mod my DeCSS shirt I have and add these numbers to it, but as a bar code.

I've often stated the winner of the next gen DVD war will be the first which is easily copied.

/me waits for the Blu-Ray master key release to appear next week.

[Kujen]

Then your respect is misplaced. If it weren't for the Digg community revolting in the way they did, nothing would have been done. Kevin is reacting DUE to the actions of the Digg community, not because he necessarily wants to, so give them a little credit at least.

I take it back, Kevin doesn't really gain any respect from me for it, because honestly he had no real choice. But I still think the community acted like a bunch of idiots. (Go back and look at some of the junk they posted. They could of done this a little... better.)

[kvonb]

This is just like Microsoft. If we just sit here and say, "Well, that's the way things are. I'll never be able to change anything.", then we have no right to complain. We have to say things and make people aware. Like the Digg community. They stood up to be counted. No change happens without that in some measure.

I'm with you on that one!

That is something the entire "Western World" needs to listen to, complacency is the currency of the evil running our world today.

:(

.

[steven8]

I'm with you on that one!

That is something the entire "Western World" needs to listen to, complacency is the currency of the evil running our world today.

:(

.


". . .complacency is the currency of the evil running our world today." - I'm putting that in my sig!! That is dead-nuts right on the head. I am so excited that this morning I am putting up a display in a local library about OSS, Linux, GNU and Ubuntu. I'm putting out some liveCD's, and hoping to raise some conciousness about the issue. If they'll let me, I'd like to give some talks about it.

[kvonb]

Your most welcome steven8 :).

Have a look here, this will give you some more info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6612685.stm

...especially the related stories on the top right of the page.

It makes me sick that Governments can't spend their, sorry OUR, time and OUR money on doing something that actually matters, like allowing underdeveloped countries to be able to buy generic brand drugs instead of the extremely overpriced name brands which the UN, WTO, and World Bank force them to waste their money on.

It's all the same thing, this ridiculous copyright and "intellectual property" nonsense.

They always give the argument of "the high costs of research and production".

This is complete nonsense, Linux exists and has no development costs! It's the product of people working together for a common goal.

The same can be said for all the pharmaceutical products, we don't need big corporations and massive profits in order to do the research and production, we could get together as a "people" and work towards the same outcome.

That's what education is for, isn't it? That's what universities were for before they turned them into money making ventures! To advance a "people" and make things better for everyone, not harness it and reap it for the benefits of a few?

I really don't care about the copyright laws on DVDs and songs etc', I mean they are not essential or anything, but this is just the bottom of the barrel on this worldwide push to enforce "intellectual property" laws.

Where will it end up? I'm sure they will eventually find a way to enforce royalty payments on the air we breathe, I mean they are working on the food we eat, plants that are grown, and now even animals are being copyrighted!

This is lunacy at it's worst, a few select "elite" people can sit back and do absolutely nothing, while the rest of the world does all the hard work!

I'm not going to promote that in any way.

[renzokuken]

If you want, we can start a torrent of the numbers. I'll start seeding...

09

or just write it down with a pen and piece of paper. lets see em delete THAT from the net!

[proalan]

reading around the subject I found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime

[DoctorMO]

This is lunacy at it's worst, a few select "elite" people can sit back and do absolutely nothing, while the rest of the world does all the hard work!

Without complacency we'd have civil war by now.

[steven8]

I'm with you on that one!

That is something the entire "Western World" needs to listen to, complacency is the currency of the evil running our world today.

:(

.


Without complacency we'd have civil war by now.

Some Quotes about complacency:


Complacency
Quotes:

"America is a hurricane, and the only people who do not hear the sound are those fortunate if incredibly stupid and smug White Protestants who live in the center, in the serene eye of the big wind." - Norman Mailer

"These are days when no one should rely unduly on his competence. Strength lies in improvisation. All the decisive blows are struck left-handed." - Walter Benjamin

"In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all for fear of being carried off their feet. The prospect really does frighten me that they may finally become so engrossed in a cowardly love of immediate pleasures that their interest in their own future and in that of their descendants may vanish, and that they will prefer tamely to follow the course of their destiny rather than make a sudden energetic effort necessary to set things right." - Alexis De Tocqueville

"They believe that nothing will happen because they have closed their doors." - Maurice Maeterlinck

"They act as if they supposed that to be very sanguine about the general improvement of mankind is a virtue that relieves them from taking trouble about any improvement in particular." - John Morley

"Everybody in America is soft, and hates conflict. The cure for this, both in politics and social life, is the same -- hardihood. Give them raw truth." - John Jay Chapman

I am with kvonB and his interpretation of world events here. 100%. I do not believe we would have civil war just because we stopped being smug (complacent).

[Adamant1988]

I saw various legal discussions about how this falls under trade-secret and there are only a couple people who are suable for this. I almost believed it and then I realized that even talking about copyright circumvention with your body in the car is means for being arrested under the DMCA.

Great job, Congress. Really.

[frup]

Proud to be a Swiss/New Zealander since 1986.

The funny thing is that 99% of people won't even have a clue what that number means. And who would buy HD-DVD anyway! Sony allows linux on PS3 and that has Bluray. Xbox has HD-DVD ... I see where I'm headed.. rootkit access.

I think I think I am funnier than I actually am :S lol

[Sunflower1970]

They may not have known what this number meant before this little incident, but they sure are aware of it now

[Polygon]

the whole point of spamming that number is so that people who are trying to remove the number so it cant be spread around at the request of the MPAA cant do it. So baiscally if they cant figure out a way to fix this number issue, the whole point behind hd-dvds has been in vain.... heh

[kanem]

Aside from the mindblowing insanity of trying to censor a number, I'm really amazed at how, in this day and age of the internet, a person can still think that the way to keep something relatively unknown is to threaten anyone who talks about it.

It never works. For every blogger that gets a takedown notice, a hundred others post the info and a million more people find out about it. From things like this HD-DVD thing, to an actress' "personal" videos, or mashups like the Grey Album. Legal action has always resulted in more publicity and thus more spreading of the files. How can peope be so stupid?

If something ever comes out about me on the net that I don't want people knowing about, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. That's the only hope of getting it to blow over quickly.

[Sunflower1970]

the whole point of spamming that number is so that people who are trying to remove the number so it cant be spread around at the request of the MPAA cant do it. So baiscally if they cant figure out a way to fix this number issue, the whole point behind hd-dvds has been in vain.... heh

Since the "Digg incident" seems to be making headlines (NY Times Online, CNet, etc) I followed a link to an op-ed piece which mentioned the number may change, but the way to retrieve it will not change. (Think the program is BackupHDDVD? Since I don't have an HD-DVD player on my computer, I really haven't kept up with any of this...)

[dspari1]

what do you think?

also, digg has gone crazy about this: attached is the number of articles from the first page...
The second and third pages are also like this (with more!) :lolflag:

What do I think?
The movie industry will be moving towards Blue-ray now. That's what I think.

[Sunflower1970]

What do I think?
The Movie industry will be moving towards Blue-ray now. That's what I think.

I thought the guys on Doom9's forum had also cracked Blue Ray encryption...?

[jdong]

From what I understand, this same method will work to crack the same form of encryption on BD-DVD, but BD-DVD has a second standardized form of encryption (currently unused) that they can resort to.

Judging from history, I'd say it's only a matter of time before that's cracked too.

[dspari1]

I thought the guys on Doom9's forum had also cracked Blue Ray encryption...?

Oh really, then the movie industry will need to get another format then. :lolflag:

[PriceChild]

Oh really, then the movie industry will need to get another format then.Or learn that its not worth it?

[dspari1]

Or learn that its not worth it?

That will never happen. It will always be a game of cat and mouse.

[macogw]

Aside from the mindblowing insanity of trying to censor a number, I'm really amazed at how, in this day and age of the internet, a person can still think that the way to keep something relatively unknown is to threaten anyone who talks about it.

It never works. For every blogger that gets a takedown notice, a hundred others post the info and a million more people find out about it. From things like this HD-DVD thing, to an actress' "personal" videos, or mashups like the Grey Album. Legal action has always resulted in more publicity and thus more spreading of the files. How can peope be so stupid?

If something ever comes out about me on the net that I don't want people knowing about, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. That's the only hope of getting it to blow over quickly.
Yeah, seriously, didn't Gutenberg's printing press teach them anything? The days of slaughtering the village to kill the revolution are over. Once an idea's in print, it can't be killed. Burn the books, someone will remember and re-write it.

[Polygon]

whatever. digg is back to normal, the site developers are like "ok post whatever you want, if we get sued into oblivion then at least we tried", and the maintainers of HD-DVD have issued a new key or fixed the security of the hd-dvd... until it gets hacked again of course

[DoctorMO]

the maintainers of HD-DVD have issued a new key or fixed the security of the hd-dvd

What will they do when a hardware key becomes known? force all new hd-dvds to not play on those players?

I see many law suits.

[iPower]

The HD-DVD master key (the key you need to crack everything AFAIK) has been found, so the key is being printed like crazy around the net so that there's absolutely no chance of it being removed entirely from the net by the MPAA or whoever. :)

mpaa with the help from riaa and others demanding that us goverment closes down the internet :P

[iPower]

What will they do when a hardware key becomes known? force all new hd-dvds to not play on those players?

I see many law suits.

they only have to print on the hd-dvd that this movie doesn't play on these players .....................

[jdong]

They issue a "revocation" against the affected player... at which point newer movies will not work on those players anymore.

Yes, it sounds nasty, but that's the price you pay for Orwellian DRM :)

[Extreme Coder]

The method to get the key is already known, so nothing actually changes.
I'm glad this revolt has happened, we need something similar for DRM :P Everybody is tired of media companies forcing us to use the media we buy with OUR money the way THEY want it. If I buy a movie, I should have the right to play it on my computer, my cellphone, my laptop, my mp3/video player, even my toilet. I am just hoping that something will happen that will make the MPAA/RIAA/DRM guys very sorry. But that's probably in my dreams :(

Extreme Coder