What do you think of the Ubuntu-Dell Announcement?

[Mazza558]

I think it will be a great opportunity for Linux to start becoming mainstream.

I'm interested to see what people generally think of this. Please vote!

:)

[PetePete]

i think its great!
but i wonder how many people will choose it as their OS, i think the majority of people who buy a dell with ubuntu installed will have already installed ubuntu before on their PC.

definatly a step foward and a memorable day, lets remember this is Dell who specalise on desktop PCs for business/homes and are one of the market leaders having the option to have linux installed on their PCs!!!

[jakev383]

I have a Dell that I installed Ubuntu on, but would REALLY have liked it to come with it instead of XP Media Center. I think this is a very good thing.

[thomas.hoyland]

i think its great

but does increased exposure increase the risk of virus's spywear adware?

regards,tom

[tribaal]

but does increased exposure increase the risk of virus's spywear adware?
Well without any intend to start a flamewar, I doubt it. That is, as long as you only install stuff from the (official) repositories, keep your system up to date :)

Great partnership, I will now consider buying from Dell again.

- trib'

[PetePete]

i think its great

but does increased exposure increase the risk of virus's spywear adware?

regards,tom

shouldn't do due to the design of linux and it being open source.
For anything to be installed you must use root to install it or it must exploit something.
Considering most people install 99% of software from packages using apt-get etc it should reduce the possible risk of infection further.

what there could be is social trickery mass e-mails which tell you to install the latest 'security updates' etc, and tell you to

chmod 755 dodgyFile
sudo ./dodgyFile

lol not quite the accidental prone point and click of windows is it!?

[Sunflower1970]

Make me happy. Dell is the company I choose to buy my computers from. Have done so for 10 years. The combination of Ubuntu + Dell will make me continue to buy my future computers from them :)

[Dragonbite]

The only thing I am nervous about is what is Dell's expectations?

Dell is losing market and is not in as strong of a position as it was a few years back. They've had an upset in the upper level and is desperately trying to come out swinging, they have to do something to stand out from the crowd. They are the first top tier seller to offer Linux pre-installed and I hope they benefit significantly for it.

The question is what happens if it doesn't meet expectations? Are they committed enough to endure the "Wrath of Redmond"? You know HP and Lenovo will look at how to use this to eek a bigger discount from MS (or whether to follow suit).

It's great news for Linux, no doubt about that! I just hope that the sales are enough to keep Dell enticed to offer them.

Can't wait to see them coming down the line, though. This could be a turning point for Dell 2.0!!

[Sunflower1970]

With Michael Dell back at the helm makes me feel quite confident. I think Dell knows how to reinvent himself and the company to revitalize it and bring it back on top.

[Adamant1988]

I'm not really certain what to make of it. My concerns are that if people don't buy these systems, "Desktop Linux" may be stalled for another 10 years. If they're not at the same or competing price with Windows systems then I'm going to have to say that sales will probably be meager and DELL will officially call it a failure.

[disturbed1]

I have only bought one pre built PC, that was a Sony VAIO with a 233mmx Pentium quite a few years ago. My first PC, I built from pieces, and every PC besides the Sony have been built myself.

But now, later this year I will buy a couple of Dells, just to show my support, Dell supports us, so I'll support them.

To be honest, it wouldn't have mattered if they (Dell) chose a different distro, I would still purchase a Dell. Since they did decided on Ubuntu, that just makes the decision so much easier.

[Compucore]

I have installed it on a dell ove here and never had any problems with it. I like i on there. as well. Its something that I have always look foreward in turnig ti on when I get home in the evenings over here.

COmpucore

[Dragonbite]

I'm not really certain what to make of it. My concerns are that if people don't buy these systems, "Desktop Linux" may be stalled for another 10 years. If they're not at the same or competing price with Windows systems then I'm going to have to say that sales will probably be meager and DELL will officially call it a failure.But isn't that the risk no matter which Linux distribution convinces which PC Seller?

The only difference between now and some other time is the whole computing environment:

People are grumbling more about Windows and Vista specifically between hardware requirements, security and customer service.
Linux has been gaining momentum and visibility in both consumer and business environments.
Ubuntu has been in the press, web logs and magazines consistantly like no other distro has, especially in the target of the consumer. One could call this "Brand-recognition"
The idea of having a "choice" is foreign to a lot of Windows users, but this is another example of where they have choice available to them
Many people won't trust anything until a big-name, recognized and respected company is backing/using/selling it.

Apple has helped break people of their "Microsoft is the world" mentality, showing that there *IS* an alternative and it looks and works pretty good. The more people see they have a choice, and that the choice is taken seriously enough for large (consumer) corporations to jump in I think people may take a look at it.

There may not be a better time for Linux to push for it than right now.

[wipeout140]

I think its a good step for Ubuntu and Linux as a whole

[gnomeuser]

I can't wait for the time when Dell gets enough success with this move to have the leverage to lean on hardware vendors:

"We normally buy <huge amount> units of your <piece of hardware without specs of a free driver> a year <non-cooperative vendor of choice>, now we think it's fine hardware but we need the specs to write better drivers for you.. alternatively we could do business with <vendor that does release specs>.. your choice".

It's going to be beautiful.

Regardless I'm happy I can look forward to buying an OEM machine with Linux preinstalled, now I can stop all this silliness of building my own (while fun it's hell when it breaks).

[KompresZor]

I think this will be a great move for everyone, also found this article on "LinuxInsider" (http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/57167.html) about the announcement. Plus there is a link in the article to the computers that Michael Dell uses. "Link" (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd--computers?c=us&l=en&s=corp) Check out the laptop at the top of the list :D

[tbroderick]

I'm a little divided. I want the Dell/Linux venture to succeed, but I don't think Ubuntu is the right distro. Ubuntu is still relatively young compared to other distros (Red Hat, Suse, Debian, Slackware) and I don't thinks it's as stable as other distros either. I don't think using Feisty is the right choice. If they were going to use Ubuntu, they should use Dapper LTS.

[aysiu]

I'm a little divided. I want the Dell/Linux venture to succeed, but I don't think Ubuntu is the right distro. Ubuntu is still relatively young compared to other distros (Red Hat, Suse, Debian, Slackware) and I don't thinks it's as stable as other distros either. I don't think using Feisty is the right choice. If they were going to use Ubuntu, they should use Dapper LTS.
70% of Ubuntu users on these forums have either had no problems with Feisty or problems that were solved--that's upgrades and fresh installs on a variety of hardware, not necessarily Linux-compatible.

If Dell sells Ubuntu-preinstalled systems, Dell will test them heavily and certify that the hardware works well with Ubuntu. If that's the case (and, again, it's preinstalled), there shouldn't be any issue with using Feisty.

The end-user does not have to
* Research to see if the parts are compatible
* Download an ISO, verify its integrity, burn it at a slow speed, figure out how to set the BIOS to boot from CD
* Install and partition a drive
* Troubleshoot video, sound, internet, keyboard, mice issues

Don't you think the above might account for the 30% of Feisty users who had unsolveable problems?

[Mazza558]

I'm a little divided. I want the Dell/Linux venture to succeed, but I don't think Ubuntu is the right distro. Ubuntu is still relatively young compared to other distros (Red Hat, Suse, Debian, Slackware) and I don't thinks it's as stable as other distros either. I don't think using Feisty is the right choice. If they were going to use Ubuntu, they should use Dapper LTS.

I think the reason Ubuntu seems unstable is due to the hardware. Dell will undoubtebly make sure the hardware works 100% under Ubuntu.

[lyceum]

Most of the desktops I referbish and resell have been Dell. My next laptop will be a new Dell. I really hope this goes well and other manufactures follow their example.

:guitar:

[HumbleGod]

I think it would be smart of Dell to offer a dual-boot system option. One of the reasons I was willing to take the plunge with Ubuntu was the knowledge that my WinXP system would still be there, so I'd have something to fall back on if Ubuntu wasn't for me or something went wrong. After that, I suspect most people would end up like me--so happy with Ubuntu that they barely remember their Windows password!

Due to the open-source nature of the software and the extent of support on these forums and elsewhere, a dual-boot option would ideally cost no more than a Windows pre-installed system.

[aysiu]

I think it would be smart of Dell to offer a dual-boot system option. Let's take it one step at a time.

[qpieus]

I think this is good. I will seriously consider a dell for my next laptop purchase (for desktops, I build my own). I don't know how many linux PCs will be sold to NEW linux users though. My guess is that most of the linux PC sales will be to people who already use linux. Maybe if the linux PCs cost a little less than the same PC with windows, then we will see some converts from windows.

[madmetal]

the deal has mutual earnings...
ubuntu and canonical make their first real big open to the market , and dell approaches the open source community..
i start thinking of having an ubuntu-preinstalled dell laptop..
whats crucial for me is the things dell would offer to support this announcement..i mean hardware compatibility etc..
but its certain a great announcement..
:D

[tbroderick]

70% of Ubuntu users on these forums have either had no problems with Feisty or problems that were solved--that's upgrades and fresh installs on a variety of hardware, not necessarily Linux-compatible.

70% of people on these forums are computer geeks and/or early adapters.


If Dell sells Ubuntu-preinstalled systems, Dell will test them heavily and certify that the hardware works well with Ubuntu. If that's the case (and, again, it's preinstalled), there shouldn't be any issue with using Feisty.

That is great for hardware, but what about software? What about the kernel? What about people using the update-manger to upgrade xorg and it kills their x? There is a reason why Debian, Red Hat, and Suse don't use the latest software. They test things more then Ubuntu does. Freezing Debian unstable and testing for 6 months is not going to lead to the stability of other distros.



Don't you think the above might account for the 30% of Feisty users who had unsolveable problems?

No. Are all the posts here asking for help about burning an ISO or hardware issues? My problem is not with hardware support. Dell will make sure of that. My problem is with the software that makes up Feisty. Does the average user need to have the latest version of software?

[aysiu]

70% of people on these forums are computer geeks and/or early adapters. The point is that Feisty works.

Yes, the vast majority are geeks or early adopters, but the vast majority also had to install and configure Ubuntu themselves. We're talking about preinstalled Ubuntu on Dell computers here--preinstalled makes a big difference.


What about people using the update-manger to upgrade xorg and it kills their x? The major X server breakage from an update happened with Dapper, not Feisty (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=241254).


No. Are all the posts here asking for help about burning an ISO or hardware issues? Most of them are. Seriously. Take a look at the Absolute Beginner forum.

Are there no Windows support forums for software issues? There will always be issues. There will always be problems. No operating system is perfect, and no software is perfect. I'm just saying the major hurdles are out of the way, and choosing Feisty over Dapper doesn't make the Dell systems unstable.

[MakLeod]

What will this do to System76? :confused:

[zoogTHOMzoog]

I think it is great! We have Ubuntu on all our Dell machines in our Computer Science labs. I have never purchased a Dell, I build my own desktops, but now that they offer AMD and Ubuntu, I may just have to pick one up!

[ubuntu27]

What will this do to System76? :confused:

Now that's also another question....

[e^(i*pi)]

This is terrible for me. I was very excited about building a new computer this year, and now I feel like I should support this project and buy a dell. All joking aside though, I think it's great. The number one thing I have heard from friends who tried switching to Linux and gave up is that they couldn't get the OS and their hardware to agree. Some of us are all for tinkering with our systems for however long it takes to get them to work, others are not. I will now re-encourage everyone I know who gave up to give it another try.

[awakatanka]

Nice Announcement but now people have to buy it. Linux community has asked for linux to be delivered by dell now hope linux community will show there support they promised.

[aysiu]

Nice Announcement but now people have to buy it. Linux community has asked for linux to be delivered by dell now hope linux community will show there support they promised.
My guess: it'll happen for laptops but not for desktops.

For desktops, a lot of Linux users (not me, though) still prefer to build their own computers.

For laptops, most prefer to buy them preassembled.

[tbroderick]

The point is that Feisty works.

Sure, but that's not the issue here. Is Feisty stable enough for everyday use by an inexperienced user? I would say no.


Yes, the vast majority are geeks or early adopters, but the vast majority also had to install and configure Ubuntu themselves. We're talking about preinstalled Ubuntu on Dell computers here--preinstalled makes a big difference.

Preinstalled has nothing to do with stability of software or the kernel.


Most of them are. Seriously. Take a look at the Absolute Beginner forum.

I disagree. Just taking a look at the first page and the majority is about software issues.


Are there no Windows support forums for software issues? There will always be issues. There will always be problems. No operating system is perfect, and no software is perfect. I'm just saying the major hurdles are out of the way, and choosing Feisty over Dapper doesn't make the Dell systems unstable.

Are you telling me Feisty is more stable then Etch, RHEL5 or SLED10? I couldn't disagree more. Is Canonical going to support Feisty for 3-6 years or do they expect everyone using Feisty to upgrade 3-4 releases from now? I don't know what Dell's target audience is, maybe geeks and/or frustrated Windows users, but I don't see many business using Feisty as a low cost alternative to Windows when there are more stable/supported/better suited distros (Red Hat, SLED, CentOS, Etch), nor would i recommend Feisty to the proverbial 'grandma'.

[roderikk]

I think this is a great opportunity to persuade another sleigh of big companies/government departments that have contracts with dell to start switching to GNU/Linux! I know there are many out there that just take what is offered to them, and if this really would save enough cost for them to justify retraining their personnel it will cause a double spiral, as people usually use at home what they use at work (except the more adventurous...).

[aysiu]

Sure, but that's not the issue here. Is Feisty stable enough for everyday use by an inexperienced user? I would say no. I'm not going to argue about this with you any more. You've obviously made up your mind about this, and we'll just have to see.

[user1397]

so much for system76...

I mean I know they'll still sell their stuff (especially to any devout or faithful followers they have accumulated), but it won't be the same anymore...well at least that's my prediction.

[gn2]

Dell have been selling PC's with Linux pre-loaded in the UK for years, it just hasn't been heavily publicised. (Think it was Red Hat)
.
Wonder if these new Dell/Ubuntu pre-builds will have proprietary codecs etc. loaded?
.
Maybe even have Automatix in the Applications Menu....?
.
I found this story interesting: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS9428700434.html
.
I think these Ubuntu pre-builds will only sell well if they're cheaper than Dell's MS equivalents.
.

[gn2]

so much for system76...

.
Don't think System 76 are active in the UK, nearest outlet's Holland I think?
.

[user1397]

.
Don't think System 76 are active in the UK, nearest outlet's Holland I think?
.well who said I lived in the UK? :)

just kidding, I just meant my post for the US mainly.

[NJC]

I think it's great news as well. The mainstream exposure Ubuntu will receive will only help to mature it further.

And I also hope that the Linux community does support this venture ... if not, then Dell will know how to respond to future "requests." I probably need to buy a new machine as I'm still using a PIII/500Mhz with Dapper. Pre-installed would be fantastic as it takes a lot of the configuration headaches away.

[cliv]

I think this is a step forward for a more diverse OS market. But as many of you I doubt that Dell will be selling many of these units, even though i think this would make the initial setup alot easier. For instance when i first installed ubuntu (not too long ago) i ran into several hardware problems sound, gfx, mouse (still not fixed) etc. a preinstalled machine would probably make that easier. I have actually installed redhat and ubuntu before but gave up due to hardware problems.
The timing for this announcement could not be much better, at the moment ubuntu is "hot" and people are cautious about switching to vista. So i am optimistic but do not foresee an explosion of ubuntu users in the near future.

[gn2]

well who said I lived in the UK? :)

just kidding, I just meant my post for the US mainly.
.
Sorry I was confused as I learned of this through a report on the BBC website, and thought it was a UK story. Ooops!

[darundal]

My guess: it'll happen for laptops but not for desktops.

For desktops, a lot of Linux users (not me, though) still prefer to build their own computers.

For laptops, most prefer to buy them preassembled.

Two point in response:

1: Most of the time, linux users end up building their own desktops because it is the path of least resistance, not necessarily because they prefer to do so. What this does is consolidate all support into one company.

2: This could seriously drive adoption among windows users (obviously). Personally, I hope they shove ubuntu on their cheapest systems they have...the ones that most people buy. The desktop thing will probably not be driven by old users, but by new users.

[user1397]

.
Sorry I was confused as I learned of this through a report on the BBC website, and thought it was a UK story. Ooops!I also saw it first on the BBC website, that's because I was looking at my Firefox BBC headlines live bookmark, which I guess is where you saw it first, correct?

[aysiu]

1: Most of the time, linux users end up building their own desktops because it is the path of least resistance, not necessarily because they prefer to do so. What this does is consolidate all support into one company. Never having built a computer before, I don't see how it's "the path of least resistance." Can you explain that a bit? The path of least resistance to me is to buy it prebuilt.

[mech7]

I wonder who is going to buy these systems too.. for normal users windows is still the most logic choice. And for technical people they tend to build their systeks theirself. Maybe for laptops it will work.

[oskie]

Are you telling me Feisty is more stable then Etch, RHEL5 or SLED10? I couldn't disagree more. Is Canonical going to support Feisty for 3-6 years or do they expect everyone using Feisty to upgrade 3-4 releases from now? I don't know what Dell's target audience is, maybe geeks and/or frustrated Windows users, but I don't see many business using Feisty as a low cost alternative to Windows when there are more stable/supported/better suited distros (Red Hat, SLED, CentOS, Etch), nor would i recommend Feisty to the proverbial 'grandma'.

I agree. I love Ubuntu, it's my favorite distro but I think an older, more mature, commercial distro would be better (Red Hat or SLED). Perhaps Dell will in fact offer these distros too. But let us not turn this into a distro war please.

[Adamant1988]

Never having built a computer before, I don't see how it's "the path of least resistance." Can you explain that a bit? The path of least resistance to me is to buy it prebuilt.

What he means, I figure, is that when the parts are more hand-picked you have a more guaranteed compatibility. You KNOW that the intel wireless is going to work, and that Nvidia graphics card is going to work, etc.

[aysiu]

I wonder who is going to buy these systems too.. Well, a lot of it depends on what machines it makes available, what specs they are, if the exact same model will be sold with Windows on it (and for the same price), and... how it's marketed... or if it's marketed at all. Advertising works. Hiding systems away so that people need to do a search to find them on your webpage doesn't work.

[muguwmp67]

Its great news and all, but I don't think it means that much long term. 'select' consumer products probably means just that, your average user won't even know they're available.

Now if Dell offered Ubuntu as a checkbox on their system builder, THAT would be a big deal. Especially since they'd show the price difference between Ubuntu and Windows/Office.

[lepz]

Ok own up, who are the pessimists who ticked options 4 and 5 on the vote?

:lolflag:

[aysiu]

Its great news and all, but I don't think it means that much long term. 'select' consumer products probably means just that, your average user won't even know they're available. I'm really hoping not, but you may be right. I'm hoping "select" means four or five systems (say, two laptop models, and three desktop models) available as links off the front page but not prominently displayed. It is possible, though, that "select" means four of five systems buried deep within the Dell website so that you actually have to do a search to find them.


Now if Dell offered Ubuntu as a checkbox on their system builder, THAT would be a big deal. Especially since they'd show the price difference between Ubuntu and Windows/Office. This is a common misconception. Ubuntu will not be cheaper than Windows on the same system. Windows is pretty cheap for Dell in bulk, and most Windows systems come with crapware ("trialware") that offsets the cost of Windows (30-day trial of Norton Anti-virus! AOL!)

[aysiu]

At this point, there are too many variables and unanswered questions about this new deal. Once I know the answers to the questions below, I'll know how to feel about this new partnership:

* Will the Ubuntu systems be prominently displayed on the Dell website or not?
* Will the Ubuntu systems be right next to the exact same system with Windows on it but with the Windows system cheaper?
* Will the Ubuntu systems include crapware (Mepis' Earthlink icon on the desktop, for example)?
* Will Dell pour any money into advertising Ubuntu? And how will they advertise Ubuntu?
* Will the Ubuntu systems be available for only US customers? Or will this be a global Dell phenomenon?
* Will most of the systems be high end or low end? Laptops or desktops?
* What software will be included in a default installation? Will codecs be paid for? Will CNR be there?

[muguwmp67]

I'
This is a common misconception. Ubuntu will not be cheaper than Windows on the same system. Windows is pretty cheap for Dell in bulk, and most Windows systems come with crapware ("trialware") that offsets the cost of Windows (30-day trial of Norton Anti-virus! AOL!)

Dell does offer Office though (which is why I said windows/office), and it is an expensive addition to a configuration I'm pretty sure that Dell could find ways to display an ubuntu bundle in a way that shows the savings. Whether they will or not is another story.

They do get bulk deals on windows, but they still pay for every copy they use. Windows is not free on a Dell, and it does add to the cost. Whether Dell rebates this cost is another issue. At first glance it seems that they should, but I'm sure Dell will be paying something for a support contract with Canonical, so it may be a wash.

[Adamant1988]

Dell does offer Office though (which is why I said windows/office), and it is an expensive addition to a configuration I'm pretty sure that Dell could find ways to display an ubuntu bundle in a way that shows the savings. Whether they will or not is another story.

They do get bulk deals on windows, but they still pay for every copy they use. Windows is not free on a Dell, and it does add to the cost. Whether Dell rebates this cost is another issue. At first glance it seems that they should, but I'm sure Dell will be paying something for a support contract with Canonical, so it may be a wash.

Actually, I dare say that with all the crapware installations and REALLY cheap volume licenses that DELL probably makes a PROFIT on each Windows installation they do.

[jrusso2]

I voted for number two. I am glad Dell chose Ubuntu. I think it is the best distribution over all and shows the hard work people have put into it.

I probably won't buy a Dell desktop because I build my desktops. But I would consider a Dell laptop with Linux preinstalled next time I buy one.

[FoolsGold]

Sounds sexaphying.

Or, option 2.

[motang]

I think this is great and I hope it will work out. I know when I am ready get my next laptop I will be looking into Dell since they are going to offer my favority OS from the factory. This will also be good as Dell has a very good name and for them to have Ubuntu/Linux as a choice is wonderful.

[Sunflower1970]

Its great news and all, but I don't think it means that much long term. 'select' consumer products probably means just that, your average user won't even know they're available.

At first, yes. But when Windows users realize there's another choice besides MS (and Apple) I can see users slowly begin to gravitate towards a different preinstalled OS. Obviously it won't happen overnight, or even in the next few years, but I can see down the line 10, maybe 20 years MS will not have such a hold any more.

[LCC]

Great news!!!

Although the move might not bring that many users it will bring the Ubuntu name to the media and people will start to talk about it, apart from the numbers that might come up from this deal the discussion that will eventually generates is sure worth it, I just wondering what kind deal was there, is there any money going to Ubuntu or even charging for Ubuntu that should be free? I hope not, even because the system is free right, a service fee to install and configure it would be fare though.

[Joe LV]

Just a few general comments -

Although Linux is obviously superior to Windows in many ways, I expect it unlikely that it will capture a share of the market in the near future because it lacks ease of use. Average folks cannot devote the amount of time required to utilize complex system commands to get things running as was required with early MS-DOS, they want the plug-and-go capability of Windows when they acquire new hardware.

For instance, I purchased a Dell with Windows XP loaded aboard a few years ago and preliminary attempts to experiment with Linux proved to be a nightmare. Problems with: wireless keyboard and mouse, the Conexant chipset winmodem aboard the system, the graphics being integrated on the motherboard, everything on the system seemed to be incompatible. An endless stream of problems that would require weeks of searching forums to resolve if they could be resolved at all without having to replace most of my hardware.

If I resolved those problems, it appeared to be nearly impossible that I might get even a few of my printers running under Linux -

On USB ports I have a Lexmark X6170 MFC, a Brother 5100C MFC, an Epson C5400 MFC, and an Avery 9100 mailing label printer. In addition, I have a Casio KL8100 printing plastic labels linked on a serial port and a Ricoh laser printer as LPT1 on a parallel port. Needless to say, there a few Linux drivers available for these units and even if there were, I would need to learn a new system language to input all the commands required to get them installed. It's reminiscent of the headaches I'm sure we all had years ago with config.sys and autoexec.bat.

It is just not the sort of thing the average user will expect they may need to do when buying a computer. It's tough enough to master the standard features provided by an operating system that are available with a few mouse clicks so I doubt anyone will these days tolerate having to input cryptic system commands even if you provide the syntax manuals which previously accompanied DOS releases.

The agreement with Dell is a good start but many more companies will need to provide drivers for Linux before it represents serious competition for Microsoft. A new Dell configured by the plant and delivered with Linux loaded may function well but what happens when the user attempts to add peripherals from their previous system or wants to buy the latest gadget on sale at a local store but finds out, maybe after purchasing it, that it can only be used with Windows?

In any event, I have not given up on Linux and I continue to experiment when I have time. Dell might possibly offer a configuration similar to modifications I made on my Dell 2400. I relocated my CD drives outboard so I could move the hard drives to accessible slots, mounted them in removable racks, and the entire system is now simply a resource for any operating system on the drive plugged into the “C” slot while the “D” drive, formatted in FAT32, carries all my production work. The configuration also expedites backups. Using spare drives, a utility run from floppy replicates the operational units to their mates and the spares then become the active drives until the next backup.

At present I limit Linux experiments to “C” drives devoted exclusively to various distributions but I will add it to the 4-way boot options I run daily if I can ultimately obtain a functional configuration. Unfortunately, it may take years before manufacturers routinely provide software allowing their units to be used with Linux.

Many thanks for all of your efforts in developing Linux and allowing me to voice my opinions.

Joe

[aysiu]

A new Dell configured by the plant and delivered with Linux loaded may function well but what happens when the user attempts to add peripherals from their previous system or wants to buy the latest gadget on sale at a local store but finds out, maybe after purchasing it, that it can only be used with Windows? Well, we'll have to work on getting peripherals properly labeled.

These days I see only one logo (Windows) or two logos (Windows and Mac) indicating compatibility. We just need to move to three logos (Windows, Mac, and Linux). See attachments for more details.

[steven8]

Well, we'll have to work on getting peripherals properly labeled.

These days I see only one logo (Windows) or two logos (Windows and Mac) indicating compatibility. We just need to move to three logos (Windows, Mac, and Linux). See attachments for more details.

I will gladly go around to my local Best Buy, and Compusa stores to place Linux Compatible stickers on hardware boxes!

[jiminycricket]

I don't see anything on the front page at dell.com (right now it's advertising Microsoft's Exchange 64 bit machine). Hopefully when they ship it there'll be something there..

[steven8]

I don't see anything on the front page at dell.com (right now it's advertising Microsoft's Exchange 64 bit machine). Hopefully when they ship it there'll be something there..

I know. I was disappointed not to see a big banner headline or something. Maybe when they ship!!

[kvonb]

It might mean that updates that break peoples systems will become a thing of the past, that would be nice :).

And maybe Dell will help with getting drivers made for their hardware :rolleyes:.

[Spr0k3t]

FANTASTIC! This is the year of Linux (not just Ubuntu)

[Corvo78]

Fantastic news!
After reading I immediately posted the news in another forum I frequent/lurk and also posted in a shoutbox (basically where I chat with my friends)..
Just spreading the word :D
Too bad I don't need a new desktop computer yet ;)
...allthough a new laptop *hmmmm*. Anyhoos: As soon as I can, I will jump on this band-wagon (for sure)!

[steven8]

It might mean that updates that break peoples systems will become a thing of the past, that would be nice :).

And maybe Dell will help with getting drivers made for their hardware :rolleyes:.

Yes! Dell can swing a big hammer in the general direction of the hardware manufacturers. That would be GREAT!

[Stone123]

Nice change of course for ubuntu community. Support the outsourcing monopolistic companies.
=D>

[RAV TUX]

overall positive, I still stand behind that Ubuntu was a natural choice, the voting thingy was only for fun.

I always had full confidence that Dell would select Ubuntu.

I will say that even though I bought a Dell a little over a year ago for about $5000, I probably would not go Dell again. Beyond some very silly mistakes that Dell made, in the factory, overall my system is completely reliable and even after about a year and half my hardware is still above par.

I am more impressed with Fujitsu convertibles, like the one my wife bought and I will most likely only buy Fujitsu in the future.

a Mazel Tov! to Ubuntu, and a fine decision from Dell.

Overall positive for both parties involved. :)

[purdy hate machine]

Nice change of course for ubuntu community. Support the outsourcing monopolistic companies.
=D>

Didn’t you hear? It’s perfectly acceptable for a monopolistic company to do a business deal with a Linux supplier..
So long as your name isn’t Microsoft or Novell.
Now sit back, relax and watch the communities principles slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.


Izzardism acknowledged

[steven8]

In the World of Greyhawk campaign setting for the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game, the Flan are a race of humans living in the Flanaess.

What are these Flans doing in my cupboard!! :) purdy hate machine, I don't believe my principles will collapse due to Dell and Canonical working out a deal to further Linux and Ubuntu. I searched and searched since you made this post to try and a find something on the net refering to Dell as monopolistic, but I couldn't. While I found criticisms and some issues with Dell (I am not a big fan of offshoring jobs), I do believe that Michael Dell has a genuine interest in seeing Linux and Ubuntu given due respect and will do us right on this deal. I do NOT believe that Microsoft can make ANY deal in good faith with OSS.

[Steve H]

The BBC are even running this article:

BBC ARTICLE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6610901.stm)

Looks like they are really committed to getting Linux out there.

:)

[JacobRogers]

I hope the Ubuntu version of any laptop they sell is cheaper than than the Windows version, because otherwise there wouldn't be much point in buying the Ubuntu. Because for the same price you could get a copy of Windows and then install Ubuntu yourself. That way you wind up with both of them for the same price as if you opted out on the Windows. Only a hardcore user would opt out of getting Windows for "free". Free in the sense that it cost the same not to get it.

[jrock2004]

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/unbuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&

Right from the source

[mannheim]

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/unbuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&

Right from the source

But on that page, above the picture of the Ubuntu logo, it says "Dell recommends Windows Vista™ Home Premium."

[Steve H]

Also Ubuntu is called unbuntu in the web address.....

[Sunflower1970]

I hope the Ubuntu version of any laptop they sell is cheaper than than the Windows version, because otherwise there wouldn't be much point in buying the Ubuntu. Because for the same price you could get a copy of Windows and then install Ubuntu yourself. That way you wind up with both of them for the same price as if you opted out on the Windows. Only a hardcore user would opt out of getting Windows for "free". Free in the sense that it cost the same not to get it.

In the article I posted yesterday from the Austin American-Statesman (Can't remember which thread...) the spokesman for Dell said the computers would be selling for a bit less than Windows-ized computers. But didn't say how much less.

[Sunflower1970]

Also Ubuntu is called unbuntu in the web address.....

LOL! That's too funny. But I do like the photo. :)

[TekNullOG]

I hate Dell laptops with a passion but this is probably the best thing to happen to the open source community. Dell has money! I think that we will see a lot of innovation and investment before the next Ubuntu release, I can't even imagine what the next release will be like now that Dell is involved!!!

Does this mean war with Microsoft? What has Microsoft said after hearing the announcement?

I was worried that Dell would put some other distribution on their machines (like novell of some crap like that) but i see that they have made a wise decision! :)

This is something that we should all be proud of!!!

[veratyr]

It all comes down to marketing and advertising. If Dell fails to promote linux and explain a bit to its customers just what linux/ubuntu is, then this will surely fail to ignite a spark. I don't want to just see a single ad buried somewhere on Dell's website. They need to be promoting this through TV ads, magazines, and in those catalogs you get in the mail for Dell. If Dell is really trying to reinvent themselves then I see this as being necessary. When is the last time you saw a TV ad for linux? Probably that IBM commercial with the little kid right. Good ad but it failed to explain just what the hell linux was. Dell needs to show that ubuntu is an alternative to windows and OS X to its customers and explain some of the benefits for this to work. I really hope this works out for everyone involved and hopefully it will lead to more hardware vendors and commercial software vendors to lend more support to linux.

[starbase1]

I think this is extremely interesting, but a huge amount is going to depend on how it is done.

What level of (competent) support will be provided?
Will the boxes be offered with a good range of properly supported hardware options? (dsl modems in particular).
Will the savings in OS cost be passed on to the consumer, or will support costs push it back higher again?
Will extra applications be installed beyond whats on the live CD?

My personal feeling is that I would like to see a low end machine (after all, it's not like Ubuntu NEEDS monster horsepower!), at a record low cost. I think it would make sense to put together a data DVD of additional applications that would install without the need for a modem.

This 'everything you need, software included, for a record low price' approach would surely do well?

I can also see some very interesting possibilities for second generation offerings, for the more demanding user - I'd just love a system that was set up out of the box to do stuff like mirror everything to a bootable USB stick, and synchronise mail etc with it.

Nick

[slowcoach]

The thing is, at the moment Linux is cool.
Admitting that you run VISTA (or Windows Millennium 2, as it's fast becoming known as) is like admitting that your grandmother taught you to drive, not cool.

In the days of the Home Computer, every make had a different operating system, different applications etc.. We didn't have a problem switching brands then, are people more dumb these days?
Give Joe SixPack a little more credit and he may surprise you.

[warp99]

This is a common misconception. Ubuntu will not be cheaper than Windows on the same system. Windows is pretty cheap for Dell in bulk, and most Windows systems come with crapware ("trialware") that offsets the cost of Windows (30-day trial of Norton Anti-virus! AOL!)

You don't think that Dell is not going to have crapware on the Ubuntu systems? Of course they are, except it will be for Google, Codeweavers, Cedega, or some other *.nix centric company. So yes the systems will cheaper by maybe $25.00-$50.00 USD, but nothing more then this amount. ;)

[aysiu]

You don't think that Dell is not going to have crapware on the Ubuntu systems? When did I say that?

If you read the post immediately after the one you quoted, you'll see I believe that's a real possibility:
At this point, there are too many variables and unanswered questions about this new deal. Once I know the answers to the questions below, I'll know how to feel about this new partnership:

* Will the Ubuntu systems be prominently displayed on the Dell website or not?
* Will the Ubuntu systems be right next to the exact same system with Windows on it but with the Windows system cheaper?
* Will the Ubuntu systems include crapware (Mepis' Earthlink icon on the desktop, for example)?
* Will Dell pour any money into advertising Ubuntu? And how will they advertise Ubuntu?
* Will the Ubuntu systems be available for only US customers? Or will this be a global Dell phenomenon?
* Will most of the systems be high end or low end? Laptops or desktops?
* What software will be included in a default installation? Will codecs be paid for? Will CNR be there?

[aysiu]

I will say that even though I bought a Dell a little over a year ago for about $5000, I probably would not go Dell again. Beyond some very silly mistakes that Dell made, in the factory, overall my system is completely reliable and even after about a year and half my hardware is still above par.

a Mazel Tov! to Ubuntu, and a fine decision from Dell.

Overall positive for both parties involved. :) I'm glad you've had a turnaround from your it's all a marketing scheme/spam harvesting scheme (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2282724#post2282724) days.

I agree fully--overall positive for both parties involved!

[buick1946]

While I think this is a great thing for Ubuntu I think for the price difference that is likely to be involved that most people (myself included) would pay the extra $25 and get the cheap copy of Vista, just in case it is needed. I think most people who are at all linux savy would just download and install their own copy of Ubuntu either clean install or dual boot.

I just hope their is some feedback mechanism so that Dell sales based on Linux compatibility can be recognized, no matter what operating system was ordered pre-installed. Maybe an option order your Dell with a Vista disc supplied but not installed ($5 discount for this option?) would show up the sales that could be attributed to the Linux option.

[warp99]

When did I say that?

If you read the post immediately after the one you quoted, you'll see I believe that's a real possibility:

I was addressing the issue of crapware offsetting the cost of Windows installs. Dell is going to do the same thing with Ubuntu to turn a profit on the OS, it's a foregone conclusion. Every piece of crapware installed on Ubuntu is pure profit since there is no license fee. Remember we're talking about a major corporation listed on the NYSE. ;)

[aysiu]

I was addressing the issue of crapware offsetting the cost of Windows installs. Dell is going to do the same thing with Ubuntu to turn a profit on the OS, it's a foregone conclusion. Every piece of crapware installed on Ubuntu is pure profit since there is no license fee. Remember we're talking about a major corporation listed on the NYSE. ;)
Well, the only difference then is that you believe crapware is inevitable, and I think it's possible (I'll even go so far as to say probable).

[thebucksstop]

Figured I'd chip in with my two cents!

Basically, it sounds like a pretty good deal all round - consumers get more OS choice, with the benefits of preinstallation (not needing to faff around with partitions etc.)The linux community as a whole might benefit from Dell's ability to hold a hammer over hardware manufacturers, and the ubuntu community specifically benefits from spreading the word.

Obviously, this is all contingent on how it's implemented - the questions already raised in this topic are key to how it's all going to work out. How will it affect consumers perception of Linux and Ubuntu? That remains to be seen.

The very worst that can be said of this development is that it gives Linux a chance - even if it doesn't take off in a massive way, the distros and diversity will still be out there for those that want to go and find them.

[BadAsh71]

I think this is great and a very welcome change for Dell and the Linux Community in general.

It does bring up a question though.... what about repositories? I am sure Dell will test hardware and software for compatibility issues before releasing but what then? Do you think Dell will setup its own repository of software certified to work for their machines?

Of course, anyone could change out the repositories it uses but I wonder if Dell will go this far.

As for system76, I don't see this as a big loss. It was nice that you could buy Linux Laptops, Desktops and Servers from system76 but their prices are typically $500 more than a comparable Dell.

I've seen quite a few posts here wondering if the new Linux machines from Dell will be cheaper than their Windows counterparts. I would think that would be a no-brainer. If you remove the cost of a Windows license and if selected, an Office license, the price would go way down. Of course, Dell will have to account for some means of recouping their own costs such as hardware/software testing and possibly even maintaining their own repository of software.

Another question I have is what about Dell's involvement in the development of Ubuntu? Do you think Dell will work with the Ubuntu Community of developers to increase usability of Linux for general use? Ubuntu is great but it wouldn't be my top pick if compatibility with Windows Networks was a requirement. Ubuntu and Gnome haven't done much in that area. KDE has and distros like Linspire have devoted a lot toward such integration but Ubuntu and Gnome have not. Will this be an issue with Dell and will Dell work with Ubuntu to see to it that this changes?

I am a recent convert to Linux. I have played around with several Linux distros for years and have found that Ubuntu is indeed my favorite but the one big thing they are missing is good support for Windows Networks. Oh, you can do it but it requires an awful lot of manual configuration file changes.... not really friendly for non-Linux "fanboys".

Sorry to digress... but... Windows Networking compatibility and ease of use is important. I think Dell will start out by building a user base of "home users" but to spread their new Linux systems into the business world, this is an area that must be addressed.

All in all though, very excited about this and am anxiously awaiting the release... especially since its way past time to be getting a new computer :)

[PopsTX]

The Dell-Ubuntu "connection" could not have come at a better time for me!

I've an aging HP(Debian Sarge) that is mechanically dieing (again) and I spent the better part of a day making a list of "goodies" to build a new "Tuxley": Thankfully I received notification of the new Dell venture before I committed the funds!

I have been "on the fence" between installing Debian or Ubuntu (server AND desktop) but, the new news has pretty much sent me in a new, good direction.

Don't get me wrong, the Debian box has served me EXTREMELY well and I have NO complaints but, I wanted to try Ubuntu since there seems to be a more aggressive (for forward implementation) community here.

Again... This is GREAT News.

[lyceum]

[QUOTE=buick1946;2579396]While I think this is a great thing for Ubuntu I think for the price difference that is likely to be involved that most people (myself included) would pay the extra $25 and get the cheap copy of Vista, just in case it is needed. I think most people who are at all linux savy would just download and install their own copy of Ubuntu either clean install or dual boot.[QUOTE]

$25 for a ghost of Vista. With no disk, you have a limit on how many times you can re-install. I'd rather get an Ubuntu box and buy my own copy of Vista, if I need to. I think selling these will take time, as more people buy them, more will sell. I really want to see how Dell will advertise (if at all).

[gn2]

Ok own up, who are the pessimists who ticked options 4 and 5 on the vote?

.
I voted 5

[dca]

I would rather have the potential savings of an OS-less workstation or laptop...

[tbroderick]

I voted 4.

[JerseyShoreComputer]

I think if they get the drivers right and everything working 100% out of the box, as well as working upgrades every 6 months, we'll have a winner. it is too soon to tell, but if done right this is a huge step for Ubuntu, and Linux in general. I was really happy to hear the news, and I'll be pushing these Dell systems on customers when they become available. Of course, I have not received pricing yet so that is another major factor involved. I think this will be great for many of the non-profits and low-incomes that we work with. Not only that, but older users with little PC expirience where Vista would be overkill for them.

[billdotson]

oh how I hope MS will lose some market share.. maybe we will get some popular software soon for those who just can't do w/o Photoshop, Quicken, PC games. I bet MS execs are mad atm..

[siucdude]

Well here is a crazy idea?

You know how people always say I can't switch to Linux because some aps like Photoshop and Pc games don't work.

Well what if they never come over but die just like MS.

What is Linux makes software better then these companies and corporations go with that flow.

I know its crazy, but it has happened before, and actually recently,

Think about it.

TJ

[justin whitaker]

I voted "make or break"..it's really dependent on whether anyone actually buys the things. I don't think we will win any coverts, per se, but it might...it's really a test of whether there is any money to be made on the Linux market.

[aysiu]

What is Linux makes software better then these companies and corporations go with that flow. I don't see this happening any time soon.

Adobe CS# is the industry standard for digital illustration, graphic design, and photo manipulation.

Many would argue that the Linux equivalents are either terribly worse, barely on par, or on par but with hard-to-get-used-to interfaces.

[deanlinkous]

I think it will be a great opportunity for Linux to start becoming mainstream.


Dell looks good because they listened. Dell gets to sell a couple thousand system to current ubuntu users. Life goes on...

[aysiu]

Dell looks good because they listened. Dell gets to sell a couple thousand system to current ubuntu users. Life goes on...
deanlinkous makes cynical post. If Dell sells only a thousand Ubuntu computers, deanlinkous looks good. If Dell sells more, no one cares because they're too happy celebrating the success of Ubuntu and Dell.

[deanlinkous]

That was VERY good aysiu - thanks for the funny!

Honestly though, do you think DELL RECOMMENDS UBUNTU will be on the website and that granny will be given a choice with her order? If so, that is going to be some pissed off grannys!

People using linux are the ones that will order linux systems. No more.

[tbroderick]

People using linux are the ones that will order linux systems. No more.

Agreed, unless the Ubuntu desktop is significantly cheaper then a comparable Vista desktop.

Ubuntu Dell + price of boxed full version of Vista < Dell Vista

[aysiu]

A lot of the success of this project depends on how or if Dell markets or advertises the Ubuntu PCs.

If they're tucked away the way the N-series laptops are... then, yes, no one is going to buy the Ubuntu computers except a few thousand Ubuntu users.

[deanlinkous]

Kevin Carmony says it aint going to happen... When told that it was too bad Linspire did not have a product ready for Dell Kevin Carmony replied

It will only be "too bad," if Dell goes on to sell hundreds of thousands of these. They won't.

You should read his Linspire Letter. Sounds like he has Dell right where he wants them...
http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php

The quote is from
http://forum.freespire.org/showpost.php?p=56504&postcount=18

IMO he is basically saying that Ubuntu may have got the foot in the door but that Linspire will be the product that is successful.

[aysiu]

And God knows Kevin Carmony is always right.

OooFf!

Not sure where you got that quotation. This is the only recent Carmony comment I could get on the issue:

Linspire CEO Kevin Carmony said, "We have always told Dell that they need to think of Linux in two very different markets. The first we call the "Linux Enthusiasts Market." This is a relatively small market by Dell standards. We have told them NOT to expect a large number of PC [sales] to this market, likely only around 50,000 units tops, which in Dell standards is hardly worth the bother."

That said, Carmony continued, "This is the market they must start with. For this market, we have recommended Ubuntu. It's the obvious and logical choice for them. I'm sure 70 percent of the respondents to their survey, which would have been filled out by the Linux enthusiast market, are Ubuntu users. So, if you're going to sell to that market, it's the only choice, IMHO."

"This second market for Linux, which we call the 'Linux Mainstream Market,' will require a very different product from Ubuntu," added Carmony. "One that is 1) far easier to use. (By the Linux Enthusiasts Market standards, Ubuntu iseasy to use, but by the [standards of the] Mainstream Market, Ubuntu is not nearly easy or polished enough. 2) that supports DRM, Multimedia files, DVD, Java, Flash, QuickTime, 3-D graphic drivers, etc. 3) That has a revenue model for Dell beyond moving a few low-end boxes. 4) That has a longstanding OEM program for certification, support and revenue creation, and 5) doesn't fall into the cross hairs of any potential IP lawsuits from Microsoft and others."

It is this "Mainstream" market that Linspire is now aiming at. "So, we have told Dell, to make sure they understand both of these markets and have proper expectations for each," said Carmony. "The expectation for the first Enthusiasts market is that you won't sell a lot of PCs, but it needs to be a distro that market wants, and that's Ubuntu."

Carmony continued, "Then, in the years ahead, prepare for the second, mainstream market. I think you can guess which distribution we think they should pick for that market! This was one of the main reasons we switched Linspire's baseline to Ubuntu, so that we can join in the hardware certification between the first and second markets for OEMs."

For now, though, "Ubuntu is the ideal choice and we support Dell 100 percent in that choice. This is a positive step in the right direction for ALL Linux vendors. I'm not one of those who you will find saying, 'Yay! Now that Dell is in the game, this will change EVERYTHING!' This is just one of the many logical steps that will be needed for Linux to continue to move to that second market," concluded Carmony.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4736610029.html

[starbase1]

You know, I think that this is just a little early - which probably makes it a very good time for Dell to stick a toe in the water, and learn the market.

What I am thinking of is this.

It's no secret that Vista is underselling. It's also been announced that at the end of the year they plan to stop making XP available.

This will effectively mean that Microsoft are not selling an OS that is suitable AT ALL for the lower end PC's. Now the big boys like to sell the high powered systems anyway, for the bigger margins.

But if MS are going to deliberately cut themselves out of the market, I don't see how Linux, probably Ubuntu, can possibly fail - there will simply be no competition at the low end.

Nick

[tbroderick]

A lot of the success of this project depends on how or if Dell markets or advertises the Ubuntu PCs.


It's not just Dell but Canonical too.

[IgnorantGuru]

I think Dell should install Ubuntu on ALL their machines, making the Windows ones dual-boot. It won't cost them anything, and with the size of hard drives now it takes negligible space.

It will also give Windows users an option when a virus or failure takes down Windows.

And that way, people can try Ubuntu without needing to dive into it cold.

Best of all, this will really get Microsoft's knickers in a twist - they hate sharing a system.

[jcconnor]

Dude,

I'm getting a Dell!!!

And so is my wife and son!!

And then my other son and daughter in a couple of years!!

[m.musashi]

I didn't buy a Dell a couple years ago because I refused to pay for another copy of windows. During my search for alternaives I started to use Linux and then ended up building my own. If this had been a choice two years ago I be sittine in front of a Dell right now. Next time I'm in the market for a computer I'll be looking for a Linux option so Dell would be near the top.

[kvonb]

Linspire? Man, have you seen that tripe? It must be the ugliest, most annoying version of Linux I have ever had the misfortune to have tried!

It is so disgustingly "kitchy", that it made my teeth ache.

And that god-awful "CNR" thing!

You have to register on-line just to install GIMP!

I really believe that it will do more harm than good to the cause of Linux, I mean really, have a look at it. Don't just look at the screenshots, but boot the horrid thing to get a real taste of it.

Ubuntu looks so clean and professional compared to that nasty little abomination. Even DSL looks professional compared to Linspire.

[m.musashi]

So I take it you aren't a big fan of Linspire :).

[kvonb]

So I take it you aren't a big fan of Linspire :).

Did I give that impression? :D

[justin whitaker]

Linspire? Man, have you seen that tripe? It must be the ugliest, most annoying version of Linux I have ever had the misfortune to have tried!

It is so disgustingly "kitchy", that it made my teeth ache.

And that god-awful "CNR" thing!

You have to register on-line just to install GIMP!

I really believe that it will do more harm than good to the cause of Linux, I mean really, have a look at it. Don't just look at the screenshots, but boot the horrid thing to get a real taste of it.

Ubuntu looks so clean and professional compared to that nasty little abomination. Even DSL looks professional compared to Linspire.

Whoa, we must have installed two different things. DSL is nice, but the default interface sure isn't what I would call professional.

I can't say it was ugly either. It has alot going for it, visually; clean, simple, modern looking...ok, a little too cute, but it's designed for people that thing XP's Luna theme is good.

And there is alot to be said for cleaning up the menus and making some nice administrative tools....

As for CNR,,,like Xandros, Linspire is Debian based...you don't have to even use Linspires repos if you did not want to-use Debian instead. (with the caveat that it could break everything...which using Linspire's repos that could happen too!)

Anyway, you are right, Ubuntu is better overall, but Kubuntu sure is not better than Lin/Freespire, nor is it better than a bunch of other KDE distros.

[jclmusic]

i wonder if dell's ubuntu desktops and laptops especially (seeing as the leyboard is a lot harder to replace) will have 'windows keys' or what?

[BadAsh71]

i wonder if dell's ubuntu desktops and laptops especially (seeing as the leyboard is a lot harder to replace) will have 'windows keys' or what?

Its funny that you mentioned that..... I saw a photo (most likely doctored up) that replaced the "Windows" key with a "Linux Tux" key. Now that would be cool.

Does anyone know of a place that might sell such "replacement" keys :)

Hell, Apple has their special key, Microsoft has theirs, its about time Linux had their own :)

[DoctorMO]

Well we have windows in xorg, windows is a standard term in the it industry for a graphical widget. as for the windows key; well perhaps they could make it look more like a window than a Windows(tm) logo.

[Dragonbite]

I hope that Dell would include codecs (legally of course) for playing multimedia. They could pay for licensing / patents / whatever out of some of the cost of the hardwrae and that, I think, would eliminate one hurdle for people using Linux (at least in the USA), otherwise it will be one of the things consumers will complain about and Microsoft will say "see.. use Windows and you don't have to worry about this stuff!"

[deanlinkous]

Granny accidently purchases ubuntu dell. Granny tries to do online spyware scanner because a flash ad said she might be infected. Doesn't work at all. Granny tries a windows-media-10 file and it doesnt work. Then she tries to use active-x tools on her favorite forums - msn and delphi. Doesn't work. Grannyproceeds to tell everyone how she got a crappy ubuntu computer, it didnt do a lot of the things that windows does and is likely infected with spyware and she had to pay $200 for a copy of vista to put on it.

Best scenario - a few thousand ubuntu geeks buy systems, a few thousand geeks buy systems - Dell considers that to be a reasonable enough success to stick with offering it and life goes on.

[jclmusic]

the best solution would be to spread the word about automatix or easyubuntu, wouldn't it?

[tbroderick]

I hope that Dell would include codecs (legally of course) for playing multimedia. They could pay for licensing / patents / whatever out of some of the cost of the hardwrae and that, I think, would eliminate one hurdle for people using Linux (at least in the USA), otherwise it will be one of the things consumers will complain about and Microsoft will say "see.. use Windows and you don't have to worry about this stuff!"

a. Dell is not going to spend the capitol needed to buy codecs, Canonical would have to
b. a Canonical spokesperson said Dell would use the same Ubuntu as everyone else, no special version

[Praill]

This is GREAT GREAT GREAT news.
Since dell will try to make their systems both linux and windows compatible we'll start getting systems withouth winmodems and we'll start seeing pressure on companies like ATI to develop better drivers (if they wana stay with Dell).

GREAT news. Nothing bad can come of this.

[Dragonbite]

GREAT news. Nothing bad can come of this.*Cue Ominous Music*
You NEVER say "nothing bad can come..", haven't you watched enough Hollywood Movies to know whatever you say will not happen DOES?!!

:popcorn:

[m.musashi]

a. Dell is not going to spend the capitol needed to buy codecs, Canonical would have to
b. a Canonical spokesperson said Dell would use the same Ubuntu as everyone else, no special version

Do codecs cost money to buy or is it just an issue of agreeing to a license? In any case, with Feisty much of this got a lot easier. When a new Ubuntu owner tries to play an MP3 they will be prompted to install the codecs. As I understand it, they will need to do more research for DVD and such (unless Dell makes that easier for them).

[aysiu]

If codecs do cost money, doesn't Dell currently spend money to get them installed on Windows computers it sells? After all, InterVideo WinDVD or PowerDVD are not free programs.

[Dragonbite]

If codecs do cost money, doesn't Dell currently spend money to get them installed on Windows computers it sells? After all, InterVideo WinDVD or PowerDVD are not free programs.Unless Microsoft absorbs those costs in what they charge for Windows.

[W@LT]

It's a good thing...

The only put-off to the majority user is the complicated process of loading new programs!!

Maybe if someone was to develop and extension of Automatix which could be loaded in the standard release more people would be inclined to run with it...

Most of the people who I have converted need constant input on how to do the most simple things...

It just needs to be made Idiot Proof and it will win on all counts..

[aysiu]

It's a good thing...

The only put-off to the majority user is the complicated process of loading new programs!! Add/Remove and Synaptic are complicated?

[Dragonbite]

Add/Remove and Synaptic are complicated?Synaptic will take a little bit for people to get used to, but it is one of those things that once you get by the learning curve it will make things a LOT easier.

And it isn't so much as complicated, as it is daunting because there are sooo many programs there with wierd, un-clear names to sort through and if the person is coming from Windows then they are already feeling like they are learning a new language.

Add/Remove will work well for most programs though. They don't want to see all of the back-end packages and variations (Totem-gstreamer, Totem-Xine? I'll install both! ;) )

[starbase1]

Add/Remove and Synaptic are complicated?

I don't know about the details, but as someone fairly new to Ubuntu, yes, I find it difficult, and I haven't managed it yet!

I don't have an operating net connection under Ubuntu yet, which doesn't help, but in windows I download an executable, and run it. After asking here I looked for .deb files, downloaded some and moved them over, but they all came up with stuff about python dependencies that I did not understand how to fix.

It IS more complex, and not helped by lack of support for USB modems.

I consider myself moderately technical, and it must get easier f the average Dell customer is going to manage it...

Nick

[aysiu]

Well, the problem isn't with Add/Remove and Synaptic.

The problem is internet connection-dependence.

If you don't have an internet connection working in Ubuntu then, yes, software installation becomes a hassle. That is a real problem.

But saying the Add/Remove and Synaptic are complicated doesn't make sense if you do have a working internet connection, which, presumably, on a Dell computer with Ubuntu preinstalled should be a non-issue.

This is the full quotation I was responding to:
It's a good thing...

The only put-off to the majority user is the complicated process of loading new programs!!

Maybe if someone was to develop and extension of Automatix which could be loaded in the standard release more people would be inclined to run with it...

Most of the people who I have converted need constant input on how to do the most simple things...

It just needs to be made Idiot Proof and it will win on all counts.. Absolutely no mention of a lack of internet connection. In fact, the suggestion of including Automatix by default assumes an internet connection because without one Automatix is also useless.

[starbase1]

But saying the Add/Remove and Synaptic are complicated doesn't make sense if you do have a working internet connection, which, presumably, on a Dell computer with Ubuntu preinstalled should be a non-issue.


Good point, and exactly why I think a well set up machine that works out the box will be a really big step forwards

[KiwiNZ]

What do I think of the announcement?

Well I have been with Ubuntu since day one . This is the most exciting thing to happen in our journey to date.

We have the opportunity to take Linux and in particular Ubuntu to main stream. This is the endorsement we have always wanted.

But this is just the begining.

Wow what a week .

[j.miller565]

I totally agree. Man this whole thing with Dell is exciting!!!

[starbase1]

What do I think of the announcement?

This is the endorsement we have always wanted.



That's a very interesting choice of words - and I think a useful one. If Dell are seen as taking the view that it is, to use the well worn phrase, "ready for the desktop", that's a big gift of credibility before a single Ubuntu PC is sold.

Though I am a bit diosappointed to see that Dell have apparently said they have no plans for selling the new beasty here in the UK...

Nick

[greymongrey]

I think it's great news for Ubuntu as well as Linux as a whole. I will get one when I get my next computer because I know it's made for Linux and Linux will work perfectly on it. This is just a start however. I don't look for a mass stampede from Windows users to Ubuntu.

[mättu]

this is much appreciated here!
We've installed many ubuntus on mainly older computers. From now and then there has been hardware issues, mostly direct rendering, sound or touchpads nod working.
Hearing that dell will support ubuntu let's us hope that hardware (any) will be more linux-compatible. This is great news.
The only thing we'd like to hear now is an offer for "the rest of the world" ;-)

[public_void]

That is the only problem, its not available here in the UK. Hopefully if successful, in the US, then it will spread across the world.

[dada1958]

I hope it's going to make it because I like Ubuntu a lot, it's my primary OS ... but I'm already reading about conspiracy theories (http://benhay.blogspot.com/2007/05/dell-and-penguins.html) and I don't like that at all ...

[disturbed1]

Do codecs cost money to buy or is it just an issue of agreeing to a license? In any case, with Feisty much of this got a lot easier. When a new Ubuntu owner tries to play an MP3 they will be prompted to install the codecs. As I understand it, they will need to do more research for DVD and such (unless Dell makes that easier for them).

MS pays for mp3 playback. Though there is some type of patent case going/went/something to the courts.

Real Player offers legal MP3 playback for Linux, as well as Fluendo's GStreamer codec. For DVD, InterVideo offers DVD playback for embedded systems. I'm pretty sure this is who Linspire and Xandros use for DVD playback also. Fluendo also offers many other codecs (ac3, mpeg2, wmv) for GStreamer. According to patents, in some countries you need to pay royalties to playback those (ac3,mpeg2/4) files. MS did pay for an MPEG2 decoder for Vista.

[Stone123]

Didn’t you hear? It’s perfectly acceptable for a monopolistic company to do a business deal with a Linux supplier..
So long as your name isn’t Microsoft or Novell.
Now sit back, relax and watch the communities principles slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.


Izzardism acknowledged


Will do , will do . Let me grab some .:popcorn: and watch this from debian.

I think its already started

[motin]

Pre-installed Linux takes away 90% of the obstacles often found with Linux installations since the hardware is supported and pre-configured. With 7.04, multimedia support is intelligently installed when it's needed. Can't see anything the user would need to fiddle around with except for learning where everything is located - like programs, settings etc - something very intuitive in Gnome.

When it comes to a distribution for pre-installation to many newcomers to Linux, the distribution's pre-configuration is far from the most important factor, with the size and energy of the community taking prime position instead. Newcomers don't want to search for something related to their system on Google and get X hits, they want to find 100X hits and feel that they aren't alone taking the plunge.

Dell's initiative in whole as well as the decision to go with Ubuntu seems to me the best news of 2007 this far. A milestone in computer history!

[amphet]

I won't say anything until I see the prices.

[bsell]

I won't say anything until I see the prices.

Judging from other OEM's pricing, Ubuntu should be about $80 cheaper per PC over Vista Basic. MS-Office preinstalled (standard version) adds about $280. An Ubuntu PC with OO.o saves you about $360. Add Compiz/Beryl and you save even more over Vista Home Premium.

[blackspyder]

The biggest hurdle that will face this project is getting over the stigma that Linux is for ubergeeks only. Once people realize that Ubuntu is user friendly i think this project will take off. Hoping to get a price on a new DELL soon (I will be purchasing one)

[starbase1]

Judging from other OEM's pricing, Ubuntu should be about $80 cheaper per PC over Vista Basic. MS-Office preinstalled (standard version) adds about $280. An Ubuntu PC with OO.o saves you about $360. Add Compiz/Beryl and you save even more over Vista Home Premium.


I read on one of the news pages that Mark Shuttleworth does NOT want it positioned as a cheap subtitute for Windows.

Nick

[aysiu]

I read on one of the news pages that Mark Shuttleworth does NOT want it positioned as a cheap subtitute for Windows.

Nick
You're taking that out of context. Mark isn't saying that Ubuntu should be more expensive than Windows. It was a justification for not including Wine by default. He doesn't want it to be considered a cheap (is in low-quality) version of Windows--he wants it to be an OS in its own right.

Of course Ubuntu (in terms of money) will always be cheaper than Windows (yes, even if Microsoft decides to sell it for $5 in Asia).
Dell does not plan to include software such as Wine, which lets users run Windows programs on Linux, with its PCs that will soon be preloaded Ubuntu Linux. "I do not want to position Ubuntu and Linux as a cheap alternative to Windows," Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth told eWEEK.com.

The CEO of the popular distribution's commercial parent, Canonical, Ltd., made the remark in an interview with eWEEK's Peter Galli following the May 1 announcement that Dell plans to preload Ubuntu on some consumer machines.

"While Linux is an alternative to Windows, it is not cheap Windows," Shuttleworth reportedly said. "Linux has its own strengths, and users should want it because of those strengths and not because it's a cheap copy of Windows."

Shuttleworth explained to Galli that he could only imagine running a Windows application on Ubuntu as a temporary strategy -- part of a migration platform and not as the way of the future, "which could well be free software." From Dell's Ubuntu PCs won't include Windows emulation (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5448893661.html)

[Korrontean]

I am afraid the Dells with Ubuntu preinstalled will only be available in the US. So buy millions of them so that they sell them in the rest of the world, too.

I think it's a great idea and I am sure it will be the beginning of the definitive success of Linux. People will realize how stupid it is to pay for #@$%& Windows when you can have something better (technically, ethically, even esthetically) for free.

I don't agree with the "Oasis" theory. I don't want Linux to be something elitist for a minority. I want it to spread and make a positive change in the world around us.

Long life to Ubuntu :guitar:

[starscalling]

i think its awesome to have a choice. but i worry about a couple things:
1. the distro offered should NOT be say feisty
1a. while i like feisty and run as a second on my quad boot system, its too unstable in far too many places, and more importantly in every system to date ive installed it in [approaching a dozen now] it's had extremely slow networking- edgy and dapper do NOT have these problems
2. multimedia support is very bad thus far.
2a. its not that it _wont_ do what you want, it's that its mostly broken. mp3 is easy enough, as is flash. but try watching some esoteric anime or pron or w/e where the encoder either didnt know what they were doing or the file is just old and not supported well. youll find that the same packages that make it work in dapper are 95% effective in edgy and 85% effective in feisty.
3. overall stability is poor.
3a. i pass this off to ppl needing the bleeding edge feisty stuff as "its about as stable as windows", but blowback often includes "why is your box as stable as your electricity?" [i.e. why do i only have to reboot when i want to'
4. ubuntu is ok for the beginner if adventerous, but true beginners that have little ability at first to adapt can often be lost quickly.
4a. again not a problem for the hobbyiest [to steal a phrase from a linspire explination on the dell+ubuntu thing] - but the hobbiest is willing to experiment and fail a bit :P

i think that there have been awesome strides, but it still takes me a few hours to install + properly configure a system for everything i think a person will need. sure, i install gimp instead of photoshop etc, and i think gwenview is better than eog [surprizingly many errors on eog just dont crop up with gwenview hehe], and sure, i have them work on their windows desktop for a week or two before i install ubuntu, making a list of what they use - both programs and functionality, making sure that i can easily migrate them with minimal headaches. i think that definately one of the packages should be by default a gtk config for dyndns for easier remote maintenance, and personally [although i certainly understand the security risks] i have installed ssh on _every_ system i configure, as then i dont have to physically go there to fix most easily.


that being said, i think the biggest thing that will show dell's seriousness is a nice chunky discount off for choosing ubuntu instead of windows.

[DJ Wings]

My laptop is ordered.

[xtophercaa]

I think it's great. It shows great faith in the open source community, and faith in their customers to know what they want. It might not make Dell billions, but it will help them regain a little credibility in the IT marketplace, I think.