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View Full Version : CNR a reality!!!!



shadowfx78
April 26th, 2007, 03:46 PM
I just got a news letter from linspire/freespire in June a CNR plugin will be made available for Ubuntu and I guess that would also include Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu

ssodhi
April 27th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Excellent.
I take it CNR free will be an option, alongside apt?

shadowfx78
April 27th, 2007, 12:51 AM
yes that will be the deal

justin whitaker
April 27th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Good news!

I have been playing around with the .pbi format for PC-BSD, and thought: it will be great when Ubuntu has something like this....

BuffaloX
April 27th, 2007, 02:42 AM
It's cool CNR has been opened to other/all distros.
I have no clue how CNR and APT can work together regarding dependencies.
But since they say CNR is so cool, I guess it works well...

lbyrd33
April 27th, 2007, 03:28 AM
I think synaptic is pretty much the same as cnr. CNR just a little better layout.

panickedthumb
April 27th, 2007, 04:13 AM
sorry, but "meh..." from me.

I'm all for choice, but this is something I'll definitely not be choosing. I just can't see introducing a third party package manager and not breaking things. I'll try it on a test machine, just like I try almost everything, but I can't see it becoming part of my main box.

RAV TUX
April 27th, 2007, 07:21 AM
I honestly need to do more research on CNR before I make a decision one way or another(for or against)....

how is CNR different from Conary? or Klik?

how is it different from raa(rpathapplianceagent)?

how is it similar to the PC-BSD wizard?

What are the benefits of using CNR?

again, I must do more research....if anybody can fill in any the questions above please do.

shadowfx78
April 27th, 2007, 05:02 PM
CNR is mostly just a hyped up package manager. It has pictures and screenshots as well as better descriptions of the packages.

lepz
April 27th, 2007, 05:41 PM
I doubt very much I will be using it.

BuffaloX
April 27th, 2007, 08:38 PM
CNR is mostly just a hyped up package manager. It has pictures and screenshots as well as better descriptions of the packages.

I love to see screenshots of programs before trying them, many Linux apps don't have a real homepage, and some don't care about screenshots.

orange2k
April 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM
WTF is CNR?

Screenshot anyone?

adamklempner
April 27th, 2007, 09:01 PM
WTF is CNR?

Screenshot anyone?

You can read about it and see them at www.cnr.com. :)

madmetal
April 27th, 2007, 09:02 PM
WTF is CNR?

Screenshot anyone?

http://www.cnr.com/

click n run ! imagine to have .debs for all programms or things like flash and drivers..

orange2k
April 27th, 2007, 09:03 PM
Oh, I get it!!!

great!

forrestcupp
April 27th, 2007, 09:07 PM
I'm hoping CNR will have programs that aren't available in our repos. I'm sure they will be a little more lax in what is included. I think it is crazy that Cinelerra hasn't made it into the repos.

I will more than likely be using it.

adamklempner
April 27th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I'm hoping CNR will have programs that aren't available in our repos. I'm sure they will be a little more lax in what is included. I think it is crazy that Cinelerra hasn't made it into the repos.

I will more than likely be using it.

Back in my Linspire days I was using Cinelerra from CNR. The old CNR repo has it:

http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.php?product_id=11843

so hopefully it will make it into the new CNR.

forrestcupp
April 27th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Well, I just read some things from their website and forum, and I don't know what to think. It appears that the dependency management will work with the system that is already in place, which is good. But in the forums, they said that CNR will mirror your specific distro's repos and not use Linspire's repos unless you are using Linspire. That doesn't make sense, because Ubuntu's repos don't have all of the commercial stuff. If all I can get is what is already in our repos, that's kind of a disappointment. But there has to be more, or it wouldn't make sense. I'm sure they wouldn't provide something that doesn't allow for them to make money.

adamklempner
April 27th, 2007, 09:38 PM
Well, I just read some things from their website and forum, and I don't know what to think. It appears that the dependency management will work with the system that is already in place, which is good. But in the forums, they said that CNR will mirror your specific distro's repos and not use Linspire's repos unless you are using Linspire. That doesn't make sense, because Ubuntu's repos don't have all of the commercial stuff. If all I can get is what is already in our repos, that's kind of a disappointment. But there has to be more, or it wouldn't make sense. I'm sure they wouldn't provide something that doesn't allow for them to make money.

From what I understand, they are going to mirror each distro repo as a base, then add extra apps, open and proprietary. If you want to purchase programs you will be able to. If a program that you want is not in the repo, you can add it to the "voting booth" to get it implemented in CNR. I got several programs into Linspires CNR with the voting booth.

I get a feeling that it will start off with not a lot more than Ubuntu's repository, but stuff will get added quickly as demand grows. If memory serves me right, Cinelerra was not in Linspires repo initially. It was added to the voting booth, drew a lot of votes real fast, then got added to CNR in around a week. Although some programs took significantly longer when there were dependency issues.

Right now I am cautiously optimistic that CNR will be something very good for the Ubuntu community, particularly to those new to Linux.

Macintosh Sauce
April 27th, 2007, 10:19 PM
I, for one, will not be using CNR at all.

Gargamella
April 27th, 2007, 10:55 PM
I just got a news letter from linspire/freespire in June a CNR plugin will be made available for Ubuntu and I guess that would also include Kubuntu/Edubuntu/Xubuntu

Yes that is the result of collaboration between ubuntu and linspire, which will adopt ubuntu's features (don't remember a lot, but I think it will be debianized or something like that ;D)

madmetal
April 27th, 2007, 11:18 PM
Yes that is the result of collaboration between ubuntu and linspire, which will adopt ubuntu's features (don't remember a lot, but I think it will be debianized or something like that ;D)

http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Linspire_Canonical_Partnership_FAQ

slimdog360
April 28th, 2007, 04:37 AM
I've been thinking about going over to another OS, perhaps this will be the push I needed.

justin whitaker
April 28th, 2007, 05:07 AM
Hmmm, rereading the press release, it's difficult to get past Rav's interpretation, especially in light of a purely GNU/FSF version of Ubuntu coming along with GG. It gets pretty muddy, then, when you have Freespire, Gaudy Gnu (or whatever), Mepis, and Ubuntu GG all sharing a common code base.

I could see the Gnu version being Feisty, with a nice offer to subscribe to CNR to get your Nvidia card working...I don't think Cannonical will be that rapacious, but who knows?

SlayerMan
April 28th, 2007, 08:09 AM
I will use CNR. It's useful for third-party apps and drivers that normally wouldn't find their way into official Ubuntu repos.

steven8
April 28th, 2007, 08:30 AM
I have fears that 3rd party apps and drivers installed via CNR will make Ubuntu an even worse nightmare to maintain. Heck, just using the proprietary nvidia drivers cause such big problems during upgrade.

acidphex
April 28th, 2007, 08:44 AM
Isn't this similar to, for a lack of a better term, crap-ware that most companies preinstall on their computers with Windows? I can see it now, Wildtangent games via CNR and then comes the massive developments of anti-spyware utilities. Update your Kspyware!.

steven8
April 28th, 2007, 08:51 AM
Isn't this similar to, for a lack of a better term, crap-ware that most companies preinstall on their computers with Windows? I can see it now, Wildtangent games via CNR and then comes the massive developments of anti-spyware utilities. Update your Kspyware!.

Hmm. I'd never thought of it that way. I hadn't forseen that kind of threat. As long as the software available from CNR is open source quality Linux software, then it should be okay. I'm just afraid of breakage on upgrades.

slimdog360
April 28th, 2007, 08:56 AM
I hope everyone realises you have to subscribe to their 'service' before you are allowed to use it. Which means registering an account, giving details etc. What a crock.

steven8
April 28th, 2007, 09:02 AM
I hope everyone realises you have to subscribe to their 'service' before you are allowed to use it. Which means registering an account, giving details etc. What a crock.

I won't use it. I'll only use software from the official repositories, and open source drivers. I'm just concerned for the users in general.

matthekc
April 28th, 2007, 09:19 AM
I think it is a mixed bag of candy and razor blades. There are all sorts of goodies but a few potential traps to avoid. IMHO as long as all Ubuntu is free who cares if someone decides to buy the hd player rather than break US law. I'd say all the better it gives the OS further legitamacy.

PriceChild
April 28th, 2007, 09:27 AM
I think everyone should remember the community that we have built up around Ubuntu.

The community that maintain Universe as well as some of main,

What we have isn't going to be replaced. This is just another alternative like automatix, easyubuntu or envy.

It will not be default, you will have to get the plugin from cnr off of your own bat to use it.

I do not see Ubuntu changing, just the ways the people take advantage of it.

RAV TUX
April 28th, 2007, 09:32 AM
I prefer to use a pure version of Debian (http://www.debian.org/), of which Ubuntu is based on.

(EDIT: I trust most people already realize that Ubuntu is based on Debian, and that there also exist a whole host of other Debian based derivatives. ie: Nepalinux, elive, knoppix, etc. etc. One only has to check the "Other OS" forums on this forum to learn more)

KiwiNZ
April 28th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Please do not use this forum for advertising

RAV TUX
April 28th, 2007, 09:51 AM
Please do not use this forum for advertising

Not sure what you are talking about or who this is even directed to, please be more clear in the future, or simply and respectably PM the intending party you are trying to deliver your message to.

KiwiNZ
April 28th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Its all about choice. Ignore the doom sayers, history is full of them . After all every day for the last 2000 years a sayer has said the Earth will end tomorrow. Hmmm its still here .

Choose CNR , hmm the world didn't end

Choose not to use CNR , yep the World didn't end.

Ubuntu will still be the same , you will have choice .

acidphex
April 28th, 2007, 09:57 AM
Please do not use this forum for advertising

Sorry, I removed the Coca Cola, McDonalds and Microsoft signatures.

http://www.gnu.org/

lepz
April 28th, 2007, 10:58 AM
Sorry, I removed the Coca Cola, McDonalds and Microsoft signatures.

http://www.gnu.org/

exactly ;)

mech7
April 28th, 2007, 12:58 PM
It looks nice to me.. could not care less if the apps are opensource or not in it.. as long as they work :popcorn:

BuffaloX
April 28th, 2007, 01:05 PM
I don't get why people are so suspicious about CNR.
If it's a gateway to buy software like cedega or pixel or things like that, it may help commercial programs on Linux.
Commercial programs on Linux aren't doing very well, If they do better things like Photoshop are more likely to be ported to Linux, which again would make Linux a more viable alternative to Windows and OS/X.
CNR also supports FLOSS software, and may be a nice way to search for applications in general.
I Love Synaptic, not only because it's a great package manager, but also because it's a great tool to search for new applications, and have a short description which help enormously to judge if it's what I'm looking for.

If successful It may draw more people to Linux, that in general are more willing to support software financially, and increase fundings of FLOSS software.

I don't think we need CNR, but I think Linux as a REAL alternative to Windows needs it.

I'm not too excited, because the actual functionality and the general impact has yet to be seen.
But I choose to be slightly optimistic that this will be a step in the right direction.

Since it seems CNR can handle payment, it may also be possible to have a donation option,
So people have an easy option to donate to FLOSS software they like.
I think that would be the REALLY great thing they could do! :popcorn:

Adamant1988
April 28th, 2007, 05:03 PM
my distrust of CNR is that it is A) a Linspire Co. product. (often half done, etc.)

Some problems with Linspire are that they don't do what they say they'll do, what they DO do is oft half-done, and that they tend to fail at the basics while continually adding more features to their products to try to get you interested. So, that's a linspire co. issue for me.

Another problem with me not trusting CNR is that it has been shown to break package managers. If you ever use apt and try to use it on Linspire 5-0 you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, you WILL break the system using it.

I have no issue with there being a 'window to commercial softwares' but I do care when opening that window breaks the door, ya know?

justin whitaker
April 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM
Isn't this similar to, for a lack of a better term, crap-ware that most companies preinstall on their computers with Windows? I can see it now, Wildtangent games via CNR and then comes the massive developments of anti-spyware utilities. Update your Kspyware!.

That's pretty astute.

KiwiNZ
April 28th, 2007, 08:09 PM
my distrust of CNR is that it is A) a Linspire Co. product. (often half done, etc.)

Some problems with Linspire are that they don't do what they say they'll do, what they DO do is oft half-done, and that they tend to fail at the basics while continually adding more features to their products to try to get you interested. So, that's a linspire co. issue for me.

Another problem with me not trusting CNR is that it has been shown to break package managers. If you ever use apt and try to use it on Linspire 5-0 you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, you WILL break the system using it.

I have no issue with there being a 'window to commercial softwares' but I do care when opening that window breaks the door, ya know?

The joy of our OS is , if you dont like something you dont have to use it. This is a point so many seem to be forgetting.

Adamant1988
April 29th, 2007, 05:18 AM
The joy of our OS is , if you dont like something you dont have to use it. This is a point so many seem to be forgetting.

And I won't be using it. However, I do feel that subjecting users to it is a bad idea. But I suppose after it starts breaking people's apts left and right they will learn, right?

frup
April 29th, 2007, 05:33 AM
I dislike this being integrated in to Ubuntu... Leave it at CNR.com and don't let it get any closer than universe. Its a terrible piece of software and it would seriously harm Ubuntu's image to be anywhere near associated with it. Canonical themselves could make something similar so much better and more powerful. It's a shame they are allowing Linspire to achieve their exit card out of the Linux market as their distro fails.

jrusso2
April 29th, 2007, 06:24 AM
Gosh what a picky bunch of people.

First of all no one forces you to use anything

Second of all its just a front end for apt.

Third who said its wrong for a company to make a bit of profit. If they want to sell CNR gold subscriptions or offer non free software at a discount don't buy it. Most of it is no better then the free stuff.

Fourth
A lot of you use automatix and easyubuntu and install vmware player and non free codecs dvd and I suspect CNR will offer the same stuff.

So take it easy jeez

aysiu
April 29th, 2007, 06:37 AM
I moved the tangent to its own thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=426994). Please keep this on-topic and about CNR.

KiwiNZ
April 29th, 2007, 06:41 AM
And I won't be using it. However, I do feel that subjecting users to it is a bad idea. But I suppose after it starts breaking people's apts left and right they will learn, right?

Again you have missed the point. It will not be compulsory. It is choice.

Adamant1988
April 29th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Gosh what a picky bunch of people.

First of all no one forces you to use anything

Second of all its just a front end for apt.

Third who said its wrong for a company to make a bit of profit. If they want to sell CNR gold subscriptions or offer non free software at a discount don't buy it. Most of it is no better then the free stuff.

Fourth
A lot of you use automatix and easyubuntu and install vmware player and non free codecs dvd and I suspect CNR will offer the same stuff.

So take it easy jeez

No one is forcing me to use CNR, correct. So, I won't use it. Also, it is NOT a front end for apt, and I can tell you this simply by pointing you to Linspire 5-0. Please, by all means, go and try to use apt on that system and WATCH the breakage you get. Installing x-chat with apt borked my old 5-0 install, I still have no idea how.

Third, there is no reason at all that a company should not be allowed to make a profit, however, repackaging open source software and selling it as an 'improved version' is underhanded and not really good ethics. On your fourth point a lot of people shouldn't be using Automatix or EasyUbuntu as they present similar risks of BREAKING YOUR SYSTEM.

Again, Linspire Co. has a nasty habit of being a tid-bit (read: mostly) unethical in what they do, and never really following through on any of it. I will be pleasantly surprised if CNR for Ubuntu holds up to community standards and doesn't break apt, but somehow I think neither will be the case.

Adamant1988
April 29th, 2007, 06:46 AM
Again you have missed the point. It will not be compulsory. It is choice.

No, KiwiNZ, I understand your point. I'm just saying that I think those who choose to 'experiment' with CNR are going to be unhappy when they find out that CNR and APT don't play nicely, but you're absolutely right, it will have been their choice to install and use it (but you know the majority will at least give it a spin).

KiwiNZ
April 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM
No, KiwiNZ, I understand your point. I'm just saying that I think those who choose to 'experiment' with CNR are going to be unhappy when they find out that CNR and APT don't play nicely, but you're absolutely right, it will have been their choice to install and use it (but you know the majority will at least give it a spin).

Exactly

Now as to is CNR a good or bad thing ? personnally I wouldn't touch it , but thats just me .

m.musashi
April 29th, 2007, 06:59 PM
I can't decide if this is a good or bad thing or maybe neither. Maybe it just is and I'm reading too much into it.

If it can help bring more "average joe" users to Linux then maybe it's a good thing. However, I thought Ubuntu was doing a pretty good job on it's own. It also seems to conflict slightly with the Ubuntu promise


-Ubuntu will always be free of charge, including enterprise releases and security updates.

There was never supposed to be two levels of Ubuntu - desktop and enterprise. While CNR isn't the same thing, it is in a way. If you want the "better" version you will now have to pay. Better is certainly relative, but the whole idea seems to muddy the waters a bit.

For me it also seems to have a "trial software" feel. If you like it then you buy it. I suppose Linux will have to become profitable in order to become a mainstream OS (I think for some it already is profitable), but something about this doesn't sit right in my gut.

I don't think I'll be using CNR but I will be following this. I just hope it doesn't result in any philosophical changes (or maybe it already has).

shane4stef
April 29th, 2007, 07:43 PM
Does anyone know if this is going to have lots of 64bit stuff...or if you can install 32bit stuff on 64bit platform?.
Dont think I would use it but mainly cause I love learning things the harder way. The mrs would probably find this beneficial though. Just my opinion...:)

shadowfx78
April 30th, 2007, 02:13 AM
Well said m.musashi's I agree with what you have said as its also my view on this

and no it shouldnt break apt because it has been engineered to coincide with apt. and it works just fine in Freespire where they work side by side to each other. Do some research before jumping to conclusions.

Linspire is a sort of windowized linux its very easy to use and I have to say its the distro that got me first interested in Linux then I moved on to play with the big boys with Kubuntu.

The basic form of CNR is free unless you want the gold subscription

BuffaloX
April 30th, 2007, 09:56 AM
-Ubuntu will always be free of charge, including enterprise releases and security updates.[/INDENT]


I thought that Ubuntu would still be free, no "gold" version.
But that CNR just makes it easier to manage ALL software, including proprietary which is not in Synaptic for good reasons.

slimdog360
April 30th, 2007, 10:45 AM
Exactly

Now as to is CNR a good or bad thing ? personnally I wouldn't touch it , but thats just me .

careful what you say kiwi or next he will make you resign your position.

KiwiNZ
April 30th, 2007, 10:50 AM
careful what you say kiwi or next he will make you resign your position.

No worries ;)

frodon
April 30th, 2007, 11:02 AM
I saw that today, It's good in the sense that it gives the choice to the user and will help those who need to buy some commercial products.
However it won't be a replacement for synaptic which is just perfect for me.

As for my home computer, it's sure that i will never use CNR on it.

LookTJ
April 30th, 2007, 11:19 AM
I won't be using CNR.

Synaptic does everything I need it to do. I use the cli for alot of stuff.

Artificial Intelligence
April 30th, 2007, 11:25 AM
Choices are good. People who want to use it can use it, those who don't just don't ;)

Personally I won't use it, give me aptitude or something to compile then I'm happy.

Sammi
April 30th, 2007, 01:32 PM
I really haven't seen what apps cnr will provide that the standard ubuntu repositories don't. I guess I'll have to wait and see if it's got anything to offer me.

Right now I get everything I want and need from the standard ubuntu repos + the medibuntu repositories.

Only real feature I see that cnr has and standard Synaptic/apt-get doesn't is screenshots and reviews. And I like that, so I'll probably have a peek at cnr when it gets released to see if it really delivers or not.

forrestcupp
April 30th, 2007, 02:13 PM
No one is forcing me to use CNR, correct. So, I won't use it. Also, it is NOT a front end for apt, and I can tell you this simply by pointing you to Linspire 5-0. Please, by all means, go and try to use apt on that system and WATCH the breakage you get. Installing x-chat with apt borked my old 5-0 install, I still have no idea how.

Third, there is no reason at all that a company should not be allowed to make a profit, however, repackaging open source software and selling it as an 'improved version' is underhanded and not really good ethics. On your fourth point a lot of people shouldn't be using Automatix or EasyUbuntu as they present similar risks of BREAKING YOUR SYSTEM.

Again, Linspire Co. has a nasty habit of being a tid-bit (read: mostly) unethical in what they do, and never really following through on any of it. I will be pleasantly surprised if CNR for Ubuntu holds up to community standards and doesn't break apt, but somehow I think neither will be the case.

You're basing everything you say on your experience with actually using CNR in the past. That sounds like good advice, but the problem is that the CNR we're getting is completely different software than what you used. The version that they are making for Ubuntu is being made to integrate well with the system already in place. In fact, it will use the repositories we already have along with other offerings. It is supposedly being recreated to work well with apt package manager.

I really don't think they will be selling open source software, and even if they did, read the GPL license. It's allowable. If you have a problem with that, go talk to Richard Stallman.

As for your comments on Automatix: I have never used it. But I think it has been shown that most of the breakages that have occurred are things that would occur no matter how you install things. Such as restricted drivers, etc. I have had the same kind of breakages by installing things the conventional way.

Sammi
May 1st, 2007, 12:49 AM
As for your comments on Automatix: I have never used it. But I think it has been shown that most of the breakages that have occurred are things that would occur no matter how you install things. Such as restricted drivers, etc. I have had the same kind of breakages by installing things the conventional way.+1 and amen to that!

Jhongy
May 2nd, 2007, 03:32 PM
I'm all for providing the user with choices -- on the proviso that the user is able to make INFORMED choices.

Prospective converts straight over from Windows may not be able to make informed choices when it comes to choosing between proprietary software through CNR and free software managed in repos. In fact, breaking the mindset of "disparate software to find and download", and converting to the "managed repository" way of thinking took me a while when I cam to Linux.

Secondly, I agree with the previous comment on "crapware". Many users will be unable to distinguish the wheat from the chaff.

Thirdly, how will payment/subscription be enforced? DRM?

jrusso2
June 16th, 2007, 05:41 AM
my distrust of CNR is that it is A) a Linspire Co. product. (often half done, etc.)

Some problems with Linspire are that they don't do what they say they'll do, what they DO do is oft half-done, and that they tend to fail at the basics while continually adding more features to their products to try to get you interested. So, that's a linspire co. issue for me.

Another problem with me not trusting CNR is that it has been shown to break package managers. If you ever use apt and try to use it on Linspire 5-0 you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, you WILL break the system using it.

I have no issue with there being a 'window to commercial softwares' but I do care when opening that window breaks the door, ya know?

In light of recent developments I will retract any pro-cnr statements I have made in the past.

loell
June 16th, 2007, 05:52 AM
In light of recent developments I will retract any pro-cnr statements I have made in the past.

me too , i'd rather see automatix flourish!

reyfer
June 16th, 2007, 05:53 AM
Well, now that Linspire made a deal with M$, apt and Synaptic don't look that bad, eh?
The only difference between Synaptic/apt and CNR was screenshots and reviews, and I think if we want to we can implement that in Synaptic.

deanlinkous
June 16th, 2007, 06:01 AM
Some problems with Linspire are that they don't do what they say they'll do, what they DO do is oft half-done, and that they tend to fail at the basics while continually adding more features to their products to try to get you interested. So, that's a linspire co. issue for me.
WOW someone nailed them....
New users fall for that "new and improved" crap and pay the money, then move on when they find out it is never followed thru. Then another batch of new users come along and pay up.... And so it goes....

wolfen69
June 16th, 2007, 06:10 AM
if people choose to use any new feature, it's a personal thing. im sure the purists will be able to mold ubuntu perfectly.

Adamant1988
June 16th, 2007, 06:29 AM
Good news!

I have been playing around with the .pbi format for PC-BSD, and thought: it will be great when Ubuntu has something like this....

.pbi and CNR have virtually nothing in common...